On the Journey with Matt and Ken, Episode 1: The Early Church

What was the early Church like?
Ken Hensley, a former Baptist pastor, and Matt Swaim, whose background is in the Wesleyan tradition, both used to have a general impression that the early Church was doctrinally similar to their own denominational traditions.
However, in researching the first few generations of Christians, each of them found something that looked a lot more like Catholicism than it did modern Protestantism.
For more resources on the early Church, visit chnetwork.org/...

[@noralg3081]

I can’t stop listening and watching these videos ! My heart is stirring with emotion to go back to the Catholic church . Thank you 🙏

[@scottiedds]

You are your way. The Holy Spirit is calling you.

[@eddyrobichaud5832]

don't do that error go to the real God, pray. let Jesus guide you, not your emotions.

[@johnosumba1980]

@@eddyrobichaud5832 and who do you think is directing her? Otherwise you are the one in error.

[@eddyrobichaud5832]

@@johnosumba1980 Jesus Christ came to bring a message not a religion. A church is individuals who all believe John 3:16 ephesians 2:8-10 for salvation. Continue believing in your false idolatrousse infested with pedophiles religion and you will perish for eternity.

[@jeffscully1347]

@@eddyrobichaud5832 Jesus established the Catholic Church. He said it would last forever and He would be with IT and US until the END OF TIME. He prayed to His Father while in the Garden of Gethsemene on the night before He was crucified that WE would all be ONE, united together in His Church. Jesus DIDN'T establish any other church or denomination. None even claim that. We know he didn't because Protestantism is protesting against . . . Jesus' Church. Protestant denominations compete with Jesus' one, holy, catholic, and Apostolic Church. Those other churches and denominations can't win. Jesus' Church is with us until the end of time.

[@shannonrouston3298]

The comment about John and his disciples was the line I needed to hear. God bless you both!!

[@mikkis668]

Great stuff. I'm in the middle of these questions right now... becoming more Catholic-like every day.

[@keshab9533]

Same here, God bless you on your journey.

[@mikkis668]

@@keshab9533 and Jonathan Oliva. Fellow travelers! Nice to hear from you. A few weeks back, I found a small Catholic parish that I "joined". I go to mass, and worked out sort of private RCIA discussions/studies with the priest. Moving slowly forward. May God bless you both on your personal journeys.

[@keshab9533]

@@mikkis668 thank you for sharing

[@anng.4542]

Even with all the study you both did, it must take tremendous courage to leave the Protestant and Reformed traditions behind, and come over to the side of "the enemy" (the Catholic church).

[@raulf.borjal9642]

Have you done some studies to come your conclusion that the Catholic Church is "the enemy"?

[@sharonfoster9725]

Enjoyed this so much & learned a lot. I will definitely listen to as many episodes as possible. Wish my Protestant friends would listen. They are all wonderful people, but it makes me sad knowing what they are missing--the sacraments, most especially the real presence in the Eucharist.

[@jacquestaulard3088]

Love you guys! My conversion was a bit more baffling, in a maze, then amaze-ing. Also, a conversion at age 48. My (re-)birthday is this Tuesday, Oct. 25. So, remember me in a small prayer, for there are no big prayers!

[@VR-Stories26]

This video may be two years old but it spoke to me today. Thank you very much for this discussion. I needed to hear this. I am going to watch it again. I have a lot to learn.

[@gracianomendoza8671]

We cradle Catholics actually revere you guys. You teach us a lot brothers. We never studied our faith. You shouldn't be ashamed of anything. You had to go through it to be good Catholic apologists now. Thank you guys!

[@Kitiwake]

To be fair, there's a lot to study!

[@tim_w]

This show is incredible … great work gents

[@byronlewis1330]

Hi Matt & Ken, by God's grace I have some spare time so I aim to go through all these videos sequentially and see where it takes me. It's fascinating and amazing how much insight God gives us regards Truth. Incidentally, I joined Catholic Church, last year having been a Protestant for 30 years- God is so, so good!

[@gatekeeper1873]

Great show. I will be linking it to protestants who show up on Catholic websites and call us names. I went to a few protestant churches and kept wondering why they were ALL so different. I studied the early church fathers and came home. I am a revert.

[@jeffscully1347]

If Protestants knew the truth about Jesus' one, holy, catholic, and Apostolic Church, instead of what they've been told to keep them away from it, there wouldn't be any Protestant churches or denominations.

[@tradcatholic]

Extraordinary show. More please 🙏📿😁

[@rovildcrasta4436]

Fantastic

[@garylaxson]

When I attend Easter Vidgual I know baptism does something when I see the glow on the faces of the adults entering the church. Now I experience that grace when I witness an infant baptism.

[@aaronshelton5368]

Thanks, gentlemen! Very helpful information. I hope this gets wide viewing, because many people need this food for thought.

[@HeavnzMiHome]

By 1984, I was disillusioned about finding a Protestant church that didn’t have some difficulties in doctrine. Who was right. I thought my own denomination was better than many and so I stayed. It was 23 years before I entered the Church. John Henry Newman helped me a lot. I also took a long look at the early church fathers.

[@joejoseph519]

Very insightful discussion. Our church continues to be blessed with learned and discerning Christians from other confessions. God bless you gentlemen.

[@Hieronymus864]

Please, please come home, dear Protestant and evangelical brothers and sisters, we need you. The Church, The mystical Body of Christ is under attack, from within and from outside. Too many of us Catholics are Laodicean (Ap. 3:16). We need your inspired love for Jesus. His sacred Heart is burning with desire to see us all answering and honoring His last wish for His followers (John 17:21). Please!

[@man2841]

Dear Friend Aposteals made lot of Churches for example Koryntians , Antioch, Rome , Galatians....Who give authority by control Them From The Rome ??? There is nothing in the Bible about that ,,,,,Somebody can say yeah That was Early Father's of the Church , Who ???? FARHER OF THE CHURCH IS JESUS CHRIST , he got 12 Apostels then Paul included , Roman's Catholic Father's of the Church they were students of All Apostels .... So why authority went to Rome??? Of all churches was made by Apostels,Where you can't find nothing about That authority must be in Rome , .... Roman Catholic made big lie about that , and about that Peter went Rome Acording the Bible never went Rome ,just Paul was there ,Paul went Rome never mention About That Peter was in the Rome,,, ,,, Btw, even Catholic Church is confused about that .....People open Your eyes and read the Bible ,like me .....I was Catholic i know what I'm talking about it......Greetings

[@emiblux98]

My thoughts exactly! God is great at making something right that was wrong, right? Out of the Reformation He sure can revive his Church through these people that is comming back Home when we need them the most...

[@fooberdooge3103]

@@man2841 Primacy was given to St. Peter. There is ample evidence for that. Because he was the head of the Apostles, his See (where he died) was given the greatest honor among the other sees. Peter alone was given the keys to bind and loose, and this authority is retained in his successors, the bishops of Rome.

[@Kitiwake]

@@fooberdooge3103 where in the bible does it say everything must be in the bible?

[@fooberdooge3103]

@@Kitiwake I don’t believe in sola scriptura

[@bthongni55]

Thank you gentlemen for the great show. It will certainly make us all one as Jesus had prayed in Jn 17

[@bobbyg9496]

Brilliant, thank's again ken. I really appreciate everything. Bobby.

[@irenegewinner8193]

My experience was just like yours as I researched my questions.

[@SuperIliad]

Wonderful. I enjoyed evey sentence.

[@iolitamallari1393]

Can't wait for the next episodes. God bless you and the work that you do for the the one true Church that our Lord founded.

[@lauramatuszak9210]

It shows how they fail to realize that they insult our Heavenly Father. They think He would abandon His church for centuries until Luther comes along.

[@jake115577]

Awesome content. I'm excited for the next episode!

[@faithofourfathers]

I just discovered this show today. So good! You gentlemen play off each other very well. Can’t wait to see all the videos.

[@user-fy2ox9ep9t]

Many times here in Malaysia, I tried with a charity to points Protestant errors of Baptism to their, they try to be elusive in answering me. Finally, they say doctrines cannot save us only Christ can. I told them believing in the Savior is itself is a doctrine. What self contridictory they are.

[@stevenwall1964]

I don't know if you read these comments two years later but the other night listening to some you tube video while I fell asleep that video ended as I fell asleep and the next video that started playing was one of yours. When I kind of woke up I heard you guys talking about the "three legged stool" and why we need it and what the evidence was for it; it was such a great explanation and I appreciate so much how you both can say what you thought about it as a Protestant and then what the evidence was that convinced you. I just wanted to say thank you and I am so glad I found your channel.

[@cominghomenetwork]

You are too kind! Humbled that you came across this and took the time to weigh in.

[@ggarza]

Excellent content, great production and wonderful hosts. More, please!

[@allisonsmith5449]

Great work folks. God bless

[@jimmalloy7279]

Great show! It lets you go down many avenues from your conversion stories, & with current Protestant ministers, in much more depth in each episode!

[@YYG023]

Well explained! God bless you both with your family abundantly.

[@mulipolatuuumataafatiufeaa4964]

Without a doubt of what our Lord always referred to in the gospels, I can see that the "Truth" finally settles in the hearts and souls of Matt and Ken. From them both through to their families, friends and to the ends of the world that Truth whom is Christ and His Mystical Body the Church He established will spread like wild fire universally and people will finally settle within the that "Truth". That is what our Lord Jesus Christ has always intended in all Eternity. God bless Matt and Ken.

[@vintage53-coversandorigina37]

Growing up as a Lutheran they basically skipped most of Church history, telling us it was corrupt, and along comes Martin Luther to save the day!

[@Kitiwake]

Lol..a Lutheran told me that Constantine "started *Roman Catholicism*". He was silent when I told him that there was a list of popes from the time of Christ up to that time.

[@norohildaesteves5788]

Thank you Lord!!

[@dianesicgala4310]

Thanks so very much. God bless you both.

[@gogr2409]

Great content, thank you!! And I loved how you didn’t interrupt each other...well, most of the time ;)

[@trishlozano8335]

Beautiful dialogue

[@Lezith456]

I loved it!!! Me encanto!!! 👍👍👍👍👍

[@drcrisafi2320]

Excellent first for a series that is much needed . . . Thank you!

[@stevenwall1964]

I want to add one thing about the early church that most people don't think of. In the New Testament Christ says that he wants the church to be unified. And in a later episode Matt and Ken talk about that. But Christ also said that the church would be persecuted and yet he said it would grow to all nations. And when we look back at history to see what church did those things it was the Catholic Church. And that is what all Christians use as proof that Christ really was resurrected from the dead and was really there guiding his church. So as Matt and Ken point out the early church believe in Baptismal Regeneration, and it also believed in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, so if you are going to say they are false beliefs then you are saying that evidence of growth of Christianity in the face of persecution was done by a church that was a false church ... which is absurd. That is why I became Catholic. I went to Fuller Seminary as well. In apologetics classes we always looked at the unity and growth of the early church as proof that Christ was really resurrected. Christ said he wanted his church to be unified and the early church was unified and it did grow. And when you examine what that church was by reading Clement (95 AD), Ignatius (107 AD), Polycarp (150 AD), Justin Martyr (150 AD), and especially Irenaeus in 180 AD as Matt and Ken aptly point out, they clearly "Catholic." That is the church that did all the things Jesus predicted. That is the church that faced persecution and grew to all nations and stayed unified. How is it then not absurd to use the rise of the unified church to grow to all nations as proof that Christ was resurrected; and then turn around and say that the church that did all things is a false church with false beliefs? You cannot use the unity and rise of the early church as proof of Christ's resurrection but then on the other hand say that many of the doctrines they were unified about were false doctrines. It is a contradiction. The church that grew to all nations was one that believed in the primacy of the Bishop of Rome, baptismal regeneration, and the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. If one thinks those are false doctrines then they believe that there was the resurrected Christ guiding the false church to grow to all nations. How could that square with his promise that he would build a church and the gates of hades not prevail against it? It was too absurd form me to think the risen Christ would be guiding a false church to meet all the predictions of the church in the New Testament. I hope people will keep watching these videos because Matt and Ken give thorough and systematic evidence for the truth of Catholicism. There is biblical evidence for each Catholic doctrine and there is evidence of the early church's belief and Matt and Ken do a great job in presenting this evidence.

[@niakoch9390]

Thankyou. Great reasoning.😁

[@philip6003]

Please continue your works

[@jonkelley7713]

Wow! You men used the Covid time so well. Please direct me to anything to understand Mother Mary fully. I am a former Baptist/Evangilical reverting(baptised Catholic) to the Church. Never missed an RCIA class yet.

[@mikeryan3701]

I was especially interested in Ken’s comment that he had been having a conversation with a young Baptist minister in Scotland. I live in Scotland and would dearly love to know the outcome of this conversation. (No names, just outcome.) I watch The Journey Home and I’m impressed by the huge number of people who have come into full communion with the Catholic Church. Occasionally, very occasionally, this might involve someone from the UK but apart from Anglicans taking advantage of the Ordinariate it does not appear that there are many conversions in the UK these days from Protestantism, especially Evangelical Protestantism, to the Catholic Church. And certainly not ministers. I have a book written by a Church of Scotland minister who eventually became a bishop in the Catholic Church but that was written in 1908. Incidentally some years ago I was working with some Protestants in the campaign to preserve the traditional meaning of marriage and one of them was a Baptist who regularly watched the Journey Home. But he wasn’t a minister. And he wasn’t young, either.

[@petertherock7340]

We tend to place a lot of nostalgic awe upon the first century Catholic Church. It is true that the apostles of Christ were all still alive and preaching. I have viewed the film “Paul Apostle of Christ.” That has changed my nostalgic sense for the book of Acts and beyond. To be back in the first century means to be back at the time of the brutal Roman Empire which arrested, tortured, and executed Christians in horrific ways. Sound like fun, spoiled 21st century American believers? Being fed to wild animals in the arena? Being set on fire while you are still alive? Having your head chopped off for preaching the gospel? Horrific persecutions are still happening to Christians around the world, except we don’t hear about them. These facts are needed whenever we consider the primitive church of those early apostolic and post apostolic years.

[@CalvinGomes]

Very interesting. Thank you. In my conversation with my Baptist friend, it was clear to me that my friend would not entertain anything the Church Fathers said because he had the Bible. Even Luther and Calvin was unimportant because he had the Bible to refer to instead.

[@jeffscully1347]

Satan is the great divider. I have to believe that he had a hand in the Protestant Rebellion.

[@lupelo8819]

Sola scriptura, no need for unreliable "church fathers"..!!

[@scott5208]

I’ve spoken to several fundamentalist Christians related to the fathers, and they will tell you that (as temples of the Holy Spirit) they themselves can’t be wrong because they are led by the spirit into all truth. This usually leads them to never seriously doubt their views if pressed by another person, since the topic either isn’t “important for salvation”, or the other person is simply wrong (because this other person isn’t being led by the spirit). This renders any argument related to history or apostolic succession a moot point when talking to them. It also means that the person has no reason to question the coherence/accuracy of their existing beliefs.

[@emmanuelescalante3264]

Thank you sir, more power.

[@EricAlHarb]

Great show

[@dianesicgala4310]

Love you both.💕

[@adamhovey407]

Good show, y'all. I actually thought that very thing about Protestantism, who are they to be critical of Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses when they basically believe the same thing about the apostasy? I mean no disrespect to Protestants, and if they would like to discuss it I would love to hear what they have to say, so long as they're respectful.

[@tony1685]

apostasy is the roman counterfeit 'church', Adam. Bible proves it too =) *Happy Sabbath!!!*

[@celticwinter]

@@tony1685 great argument. I guess that answers his questions.

[@kristinacatherine5121]

As a protestant, I just didn't think of that, until a Bible study on 1 Peter, and the verse about submitting to all human authority made me think of Luther. Only briefly, but it made me think, "but then was Luther wrong, even if the Catholic Chirch was just a human institution?" That thought was pretty fleeting at the time, but 2 years later I was in RCIA. lol

[@irenegewinner8193]

To be deep in history is to be Catholic.

[@philoalethia]

This is all very interesting about how the early Church was largely unlike contemporary Protestant/Evangelical churches. It makes sense that, if anyone knew what Christ and the apostles taught, it would be the Christians of the first decades and centuries. It also makes sense that, if we are seeking the truth (and presume that the truth comes from Christ), then we would want to be aligned with the earliest examples. However, I have to wonder why this would lead one to the Roman Church? Granted, it is more historical than most and many of its doctrines are more in alignment with the early Christians'. However, it also requires many distinctive doctrines that are completely unheard of in the early Church: Papal Supremacy, Infallibility, Immaculate Conception, etc. Why does contradiction between current practices and the early Church discredit Protestant churches, but not the Roman Church? It seems that if we were (consistently) looking for the church most like that of the early Christians, the best representations would be the pre-Chalcedonian Orthodox, no?

[@jeffscully1347]

Patrick Madrid has a great tool to explain to Protestants how hard it is for them to just read the Bible and understand it completely. I'll paraphrase it here: "I never said you stole money." Six little words. Do you know what I mean by this sentence? Are you sure? Put the emphasis on a different word every time you read it. 1) *I never said you stole money. 2) I *NEVER said you stole money. 3) I never *SAID you stole money. 4) I never said *YOU stole money. 5) I never said you *STOLE money. 6) I never said you stole *MONEY. Still think you can interpret the entire Bible by yourself and know exactly what it means"? Who would be in the best position to interpret the Bible, those who compiled it; who were closest to the Apostles, and Jesus, OR someone who came along 1,100+ years later?

[@carynfisher9463]

.... Can't shake the feeling that I met and used to sort of work with Ken. Don't know what the odds are he'll actually see this comment.

[@AJKPenguin]

Intriguing, inspiring project. Thank you. : ) Just a question, are you all done with the Deep in Scripture James Bible Study? I think I missed a memo.

[@trentdialogues7838]

Matt! What's up, buddy? Looking forward to watching the upcoming Biblical discussion of baptism that was mentioned at 18:01.

[@mattswaim]

Me too! Ken and I were both in very different places on that question (he Reformed, me Wesleyan), and to be honest, Baptism wasn't something I heard preached on much at all in the particular churches I attended growing up. And sorry I didn't take a very obvious opportunity to mention more obscure 90's Christian bands :)

[@AJKPenguin]

"Petra for the win." Potential unpopular opinion.

[@trentdialogues7838]

@@AJKPenguin Oh man, you just put "Beyond Belief" in my head, and I'm sure it will be stuck there for days, which is almost unforgivable. But I had Lemieux and Jagr jerseys hanging on my bedroom wall as a kid, so based on your little icon/picture thing, you're still good in my book!

[@AJKPenguin]

@@trentdialogues7838 Hey, the earworm has been passed to me now. : ) It's too bad Lemieux didn't have a sibling (that I know of) in the NHL. We missed an opportunity for Super Mario Bros.

[@mattswaim]

@@AJKPenguin So mainstream! :)

[@randolphguerrero1960]

Amen!🙏

[@AJKPenguin]

Ellen G White, founder of Seventh Day Adventism. 28:37

[@adamnowak926]

👍

[@mak7587]

Hi, I believed that Jesus was the last person that was sacrificed. He was sacrificed to wash away the sins of the world. Basically the Jewish custom was to ask God to forgive their sins and then they would sacrifice a lamb, goat etc. Now God is saying that we don’t need to do that anymore, all we need to do is get baptised with water. What are your thoughts on this?

[@jeffscully1347]

Jesus told us that in order to enter the kingdom of Heaven we must eat His Flesh and drink His blood. He showed the Apostles at the Last Supper what He meant when He instituted the Eucharist, turning bread into His body, and wine into His blood. "Do THIS in memory of Me." When He visited the Apostles in the Upper Room, after the resurrection, He said, “As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained" (John 20:21-23). Clearly Jesus gave the Apostles the power that He had to do miracles, including the ability to forgive sins in His name, and to change bread and wine into His body and blood.

[@onlylove556]

I'm so confused about the Catholic church and the eastern orthodox church. One of my problems is the pope & papacy can anyone give me more info about this

[@Kitiwake]

Protestants were first to call the Eastern church "Orthodox". Divide and conquer at its finest.

[@onlylove556]

@@Kitiwake thank u my friend, sometimes I get messages now from a yr ago asking questions about the catholic church. Its amazing how i see my journey through my old messages, my growth, knowledge, & wisdom. I believe i have found the truth through holy apostolic catholic church, the church Jesus Christ started in the 1st century... God bless u

[@dbirchwood3732]

Can someone please tell me who were the early fathers? Thanks

[@fantasia55]

Google it.

[@kellycurran4608]

Protestants do not give the holy spirit much credit..

[@HeavnzMiHome]

Typo. 13 years. I entered in 1997

[@agnesjames4026]

T

[@user-uh2hg2gm3l]

The early church was NOT founded in ROME!

[@fantasia55]

in Jerusalem, at Pentecost

[@lupelo8819]

Matt Swain...There were no Protestants during the apostles lives.The early believers were the body of Christ,the Church built on the Rock Jesus himself. The catholic Church was invented hundreds of years later..! The Church built on the Rock was already established by the Holy Spirit in the book of Acts..! Catholicism did not exist during the apostles lives. The apostles were not "catholics" but christians.

[@fantasia55]

The first Protestants were Jesus' followers who left him for not believing in the Eucharist.

[@geoffjs]

Jesus est His One True Church, Mt 16 18-19 with Peter as His first representative or Prime Minister Isa 22:22 which is the pillar & foundation of Truth 1 Tim 3:15 which Ignatius named as Katholikos or Universal in 107AD which codified your bible in 382AD. Fact check if you don’t believe me.

[@Rich.Staples]

Poorly Hosted. To interrupt your guest to make your own point shows you do not value their input and would prefer to present a monolog.

[@malcolmkirk3343]

Ironically, for Mike (and many of the rest of us), the Catholic Church has turned out to be the modern version of "the mother of all harlots." From Pope JP2 to Francis, the Pope's have honored idols, and their pagan idolaters (see video of Assisi conferences 1 and 2, and Francis' blessing of the Pachamama idol). This involved three Popes, and a great number of bishops and archbishops. Vigano and others have pointed out their sins of syncratism and indifferentism. Along with this, the hording of wealth, prevelence and promotion of homosexuals, the approval of LGBT lifestyles among many of them, their promotion of socialism (even approval of Communism by Francis), and many even weakening on abortion. "The smoke of Satan has entered the Church," seems almost understated. All of the diocese of N.Y. are hiding documents to protect their vast wealth from lawsuits, while Bishops March in LGBTQ parades. IS THIS THE CHURCH JESUS AND HIS DISCIPLES FOUNDED? Additionally, Vatican 2 formally approved of Catholics marrying non-Christians, and even pagans (justified with a bit of scripture twisting). This practice remains foreign to traditional churches of the East. They ask, 'Why would someone who is covenanted to God, to Christ and His Church, want to unite themselves to someone not covenanted/united to God, Christ, and His Church? Why would the Church marry them, when the one is not United to Christ and the Church? Let the unbeliever first come to Christ, enter the Church, and then receive the sacraments, including marriage in the Church. This refusal to marry non-Christians to Christians is in keeping with OT and NT principals. Meanwhile, the Church of Rome long ago compromised on the historic teaching of scripture in an attempt to convert foreign rulers via marriage to beautiful, intelligent Christian women of position; an idea which sometimes worked, and sometimes did not. Rome has willingly corrupted itself for worldly approval, and worldly gain. How, then (except in organizational structure) does it remain the Church? It is a bride that has made itself into a harlot, betrayed its own flock, and slept around with all the kings of the earth, and their idols. How does, "Come out from them, and be separate" not apply?