Common Market Debate | Edward Heath | Michael Foot | People and Politics | Part 2

[@EdWood2006]

Watching this and then watching last Thursdays Question Time slanging match its plain to see the total decline of our political establishment.

[@ajs41]

The public have declined as well, to be honest.

[@russellsteventon8069]

Whilst agreeing with you comment, it should be understood that Heath and Foot were the most knowledgeable and decent leaders of the post world era.

[@MrDaiseymay]

@@ajs41 BUT---we are not so trusting and gullible as back then, or reverential too; because politicians are so often involved in scandals, and caught out, involving fraud, like the MP's expenses scandal. THAT, woke the publics anger. Someone published a list of MP's 'crimes', not singular ,but by type. There were over 260 out of the 350? in parliament, who had criminal records, from petty thieving, fraud, stolen cars, illegal betting and gambling, fraudulent stock market dealings, sexual assaults -of every type, drunk driving, and while banned, and massive car parking debts. And these people are supposed to pass laws on OUR morality !

[@MrDaiseymay]

@@russellsteventon8069 HEATH ? DECENT? The Dictionary needs overhauling.

[@bryangeake5826]

@@MrDaiseymay When they did they resigned!! Can you see Johnson EVER resigning on anything other than the Tory party forcing him to do so? Never!!

[@martinkelly6709]

How refreshing to see a political debate chaired properly by Llew Gardner where each participant is allowed to speak and put their points across without being talked or shouted over by the other participants or even in the case of Piers Morgan, the host.

[@DenianArcoleo]

Michael Foot shows himself capable of seeing things precisely. A great man.

[@MrDaiseymay]

Yes, he was a good man, who became the victim of continuous, and unfounded, disgraceful right-wing Press riddicule.

[@cov9290]

Victim of the kgb

[@importantjohn]

The UK would be destroyed if he had ever come to power.

[@t.p.mckenna]

@@importantjohn and how do you reckon Project UK is going currently ... second highest rate of Covid fatalities on the planet ... a wealth gap not seen since the days of the Sheriff of Nottingham ... trade and industries irreparably screwed by Brexit ... and billions and billions of public money disappearing out the back door into the pockets of the government's mates?

[@importantjohn]

@@t.p.mckenna Do you really think all of those stats are real or are you intentionally lying? Living standards are now about 3 times higher than they were in the 70s (for everyone). Absolute poverty is at a record low (the poor have never had such good living standard in real terms), inequality has been flat to falling for the past 30 years, UK wealth gap has been static since the 70s and is mostly at a record low. www.resolutionfoundation.org/app/uploads/2020/12/The-UKs-wealth-distribution.pdf

[@petergreen2552]

Children_ watch listen and learn. Michael Foot giving a world class presentation on how to smash a debate. His skill, experience and knowledge totally running rings around that scoundrel Heath.

[@nifralo2752]

Yeah though the better between Benn and Jenkins is better. Benn was so charismatic and articulate he was dancing rings around geography teacher Jenkins.

[@penguinegg01]

An impartial host. Those were the days, eh?

[@TrueBrit1]

Compare this Michael Foot with the one portrayed by the media such as newspapers and, more specifically, Spitting Image back in the 80s. I was just a kid back then and so had no interest in politics, but looking back now, it just goes to show the power the media wield when THEY decide how people should come across, not the people themselves. Foot was nothing at all like the duffel-coat wearing, bumbling fool character portrayed by Spitting Image - he was a political giant and yet he was painted to be the complete opposite! He was bang on back then - and yet we had a Tory (ex) PM blatantly lying to the people. This ladies and gentlemen, whether you like it or not, will be the same we'll get with Boris in a few years time when he's finally seen by the masses for the lying, charlatan, conman that he is. Sadly we just have to wait for those masses to wake up to the media and Tory lies, and it could take a while...........................................

[@pandora8478]

I'm from the same area as you. Nothing's changed but through the internet, lies spread like wildfire.

[@terencewhite2559]

Sadly the Labour party has always been opposed by the majority of the Press. Even the Sun ffs

[@TheHungarianOak]

@@terencewhite2559 and now even the so called leftist papers are liberal and neo liberal.. I dont even buy the papers now.

[@pinchermartyn3959]

Foot is brilliant here. And the seeds of discontent for the present unpleasantness with the EU are seen here in Heath's performance, duping the British public.

[@stevebbuk]

I have to agree Pincher, particularly the part on EMU by 1980, the implications of which seem to have been dismissed. I would say however that in his personal life he was bitterly traduced.

[@MrDaiseymay]

@@stevebbuk shit sticks---the list of 'event's ' built up, then came the counter-defence (lies) from the establishment

[@Amber90125]

One of the best debaters of our time & such an honorable man the one Michael Foote.

[@pfarquharson1]

At least Michael Foot was an honest man and he was thinking about the people of UK.

[@michaelmoran9399]

I've watched this tonight and understand why we are in such a state two giants in politics name me a politician who could be measured against these two whatever your politics

[@gunnerlangy]

JOHN ENOCH POWELL

[@simongleaden2864]

Powell, yes, but he's of the same generation as Foot and Heath. I can't think of any of our current crop of politicians who could be considered equivalent to Foot or Powell. Gavin Williamson, Matt Hancock, Lisa Nandy, Diane Abbott, Dawn Butler, Emily Thornberry, Michael Gove?

[@gunnerlangy]

@@simongleaden2864 Rees-Mogg, Redwood, Farage, Hannan, Tice, Pattison

[@pippiperade4030]

Listening to this debate decades on, it's enlightening to listen to Michael Foot argue his case powerfully and logically in a way that Heath is unable to counter without resorting to red herrings, bluster and inability to understand/answer the question. I was never a fan of Foot's but he's gone right up in my estimation after listening to this. Given that this was recorded in 1975, Michael Foot's analysis displays remarkable prescience in identifying the key battlegrounds that in 2016 would drive the Referendum debate.

[@herbert9241]

Well, Farage cribbed wholesale and verbatim from Foot and particularly Wedgie Benn in forming his 'own' secession rhetoric but demonstrably hasn't an ounce of their substance as a politician, in his own own way making every bit as much a mockery of democracy as did Jo Swinson at the 2019 general election. Although Farage loudly garnered popularity by riding on the coat tails of giants of socialism, on the quiet he was always consistent about Tory government being his end game. Tory Party loyalty uber alles - to the ridiculous point of refusing to field candidates against them. The issues fundamentally hadn't changed between 1975-2016; the 'battleground' as in spectrum of political choice had been drastically stunted in accordance with the USA model, through internal constitutional restructuring of the EU, ergo drip-fed diktat vessels in Westminster. Heath was blatantly compromised into his act of treason and an element of Euro-scepticism never stopped gnawing away in the Tory Party. Significant architect of EU restructuring and wrongly attributed champion of 'Brexit' herself, Maggie Thatcher was hastily dispatched by the Tories when she expressed eleventh hour misgivings about the looming all-powerful supranational continent state. Manchurian candidate Major stepped in and ramped up the fire sale of public services and utilities (to continental owners) to a maniacal fervour when he / they were spooked by poll approval leading up to the '92 election. What got him over the line was favourable Sun headlines. And that's my rather protracted point: all of our problems to do with the EU are Tory Party foibles simmering on the hob of Sun headline favouritism. There's a large demographic of Leave voters whose prior acquaintance with politics before 'Brexit' was 'Winter of Discontent'. (I know; I've visited their echo chambers.) And even that was over before the season was through - in comparison to forty years of Tory stew. The New (Non-) Labour Party certainly haven't covered themselves in glory toward that end but in mitigation the proper Labour Party were somewhat abandoned by the same toothless simpletons who were ever content to be fed toffee by the dentist.

[@MrDaiseymay]

@@herbert9241 FARAGE WAS SIMPLY TELLING THE TRUTH, WHICH IS THE SAME, IN ANY ' LANGUAGE.'

[@JeffTaylor]

Heath saying that poorer countries will get more money for food because the UK consumer will pay for it - what a lie - the UK consumer paid more for that food through tariffs imposed on imports from developing countries, which went into EU coffers! What a charlatan!

[@thesubtleface]

Trying to make sense of all this. Breaking it down, it seems to me that Foot is more 'pure', academic, intellectual, and more concerned with principle, tradition and culture, and Heath is more a pragmatist,seeing the big picture, and much less concerned with the technicalities of political science. Plus of course the under-discussed point about the EEC being arguably a system set up to serve capitalist interests. Cue differences in value judgments which result in the confrontation. But it seems as though BOTH can be argued to be right. It depends what one sees as important. And I would extend that to most political debate, both past and present.

[@alban1959]

This is the first intelligent comment I've read here

[@davidtanycoed]

An unbiased and mature debate on Brexit

[@ian_b]

Heath boasts that we are "out of the era of cheap food". Dear God.

[@MrDaiseymay]

even boasting about it

[@alanmangan424]

Its Incredible 1975 Michael Foot said words Federal State ie Europe state So prescient

[@tomgibson6801]

foot the best pm we never had the sense to vote in

[@trueblue5567]

HAHAHAHAHAHAH

[@wilsonfisk6626]

"Chaos with Ed Miliband"

[@BGWee]

Foot made a more intelligent and coherent argument against EU membership in this than any modern politician.

[@dny9394]

Heath said: "Sov is the power of a nation to look after what it regards as its best interests and the interest of its individual citizens." So in his view he could submit to EU Law in every aspect but still claim the UK has not lost its Sovereignty. What a complete distortion of the word. By the way, the people have no say in what passes as 'Sovereignty.'

[@spikpootarb7274]

he was meat rack customer.

[@anthonystrong3783]

The refendum wasn't about joining, but about continuing our membership. Great videos

[@MrDaiseymay]

CORRECT--HEATH THE TRAITOR, had already broken the law, and duped Parliament into thinking that THEY alone, had the power to give away the peoples soverign right, to change their constitution, which had its roots way back in the Magna Carta document. This document, which was added to and strengthened twice over the centuries, clearly re-iitterates that. and I parphrase--'NO FOREIGN KING, POTENTATE, POPE, PRINCE, OR STATE (ETC ) SHALL URSURP THE PEOPLES SOVEREIGN RIGHT, TO ALTER THEIR CONSTITUTION' WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT. IN OTHE WORDS, ONLY WE, can allow, by referenda, people or bodies outside this realm to govern us.NOT PARLIAMENT--or even the ROYAL HEAD. HEATH, was forced to hold the referendum. Just like now, the Media, headed by the hugely biased BBC, and the usual left wing press, the luvvies, interlectuals (we know best) etc etc. persuaded a far more gullible and ignorant public, to remain in the e.u marxist prison --to be, and watch their country desolve into a morass of nothingness.

[@Muzzy68]

Although I think both men were terrible leaders, this is how political debate and discussion should be done. It’s respectful and informative, not like ten career politicians today who can’t think and just try to demonstrate how clever they think they are. Can you imagine Angela Rayner, for example , being a part of this?!

[@antoniodecruz7446]

Very well spoken debates.

[@matsand4719]

More elaborate and sophisticated exchange of arguments than used in the Out referendum

[@andrewtaylor2292]

Please see Peter Shore and Edward Heath debating at the Oxford Union 2 days before the June 1975 referendum. There are two other MPs who speak, Thorpe and Castle.

[@owensmith4651]

I think Heath's performance was the first piece of pure whatabouterry to have been recorded. He just couldn't keep on the subject . Great video, thanks for sharing

[@marcwaters2600]

the most important constitutional right is we leave on january 31st

[@barrygreen4295]

Michael Foot so much sharper than when he contested 1983 election.

[@kevinhiggins910]

Tasty ! Foot really goes for Heath at the end.

[@matmilne]

It's hilarious that we're still having the same basic arguments 45 years later. It seems we never learn.

[@andym6256]

Agreed!

[@hezkyden]

I've never voted Labour for all of my long life but I identify more with Michael Foot about the EEC [EU] than with Heath.

[@nathanlloyd9421]

Please can you upload the Roy Jenkins and Enoch Powell one too?

[@aquienpuedaimportar3028]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qmKrZYSCma-lma8 ?

[@PennyBloater]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXbQfXiNnJeoqpo

[@forlinginst]

How right Michael Foot was.

[@atempuser]

It’s staggering just how wrong Heath was in his understanding of Europe. If not wrong then duplicitous.

[@thedativecase9733]

Duplicitous all the way. He was one of the worst Prime Ministers we ever had,

[@masterphonephotography4522]

I think it's quite obvious in his arguments that he knew well enough what he was doing.

[@charlottewilson8740]

He was blackmailed into this heath was a very seedy character only Jimmy savile classed him as a friend Xx

[@alban1959]

In a civilized country such a stupid comment would be actionable

[@MrDaiseymay]

@@thedativecase9733 Foot actually touched on it, making reference to the way Heath ignored the most important Law in Britain, 'stemming from the Magna carta. ''ONLY THE SOVEREIGN PEOPLE, CAN CHOSE, WHO GOVERNS THEM'' NOBODY ELSE, i.e, they must vote on it. That's why his 1972 enforcement was illegal, and a referendum granted, in 1975.

[@peterramsey7978]

It is enlightening to remember who exactly put is in the EU and on which arguments our entry was promoted. The current Conservatives are now using similar arguments in favour of Brexit. The current labour party would feel more comfortable remaining in the EU even though such EU membership would result in " selling England by the pound" and would result in forfeiting monetary and fiscal policy as well.

[@alban1959]

For example?

[@richwilliam3378]

Heath: "There is nothing to come". No Maastrict, no Lisbon, no Euro, no military organisation under single-point command and control. Ok, that's all right then.

[@simonmotorbike]

It is quite a joy watching decades later, knowing who dunnit, the murder weapon, and the location.

[@alban1959]

You seem not to have watched he complete video. They discussed monetary union (the Euro); or did that escape your notice?

[@JJVernig]

Heath: "Except on that on which we agree" You (The UK) all ratified those things, and declined to be part of the monetaire union. The pressure was intense, I admit, but the uk-parliament all voted for it.

[@petergreen2552]

Did you get the feeling I did watching this that Heath was praying the fire alarm went off so he could get away from that debate?

[@alban1959]

No

[@chrisbailey4759]

Yes, you can see it plainly, what an absolute traitor Heath turned out to be, he had no man date to do what he and his party did to this country, Mr Foot would be spinning in his grave if he could see what a sham his beloved party has turned out to be.

[@andym6256]

I always had a soft spot for Michael Foot, but the fact that his arguments on Europe echoed those of Enoch Powell should at least provoke a pause for thought...

[@thomasm1964]

Michael Foot understood all too well!

[@masterphonephotography4522]

Interesting how Labour has changed since the days of Michael Foot.

[@masterphonephotography4522]

@@JRWall-hf9mq Yes you are mad and in denial of reality!

[@sshrdlu]

It seems to me that the enduring confusion in the Labour Party's traditional left is a devout belief in the democratic credentials of the House of Commons.

[@MrDaiseymay]

The Labour Party of Corbyn et al. totally confused their electorate, by standing the Party's beliefs on this matter, completely on it's head.

[@fasthracing]

Common market yes. The EU NO.

[@linenlacepatchwork]

Michael Foot brilliant prescient criticism of feared EU federalism, if only these videos had been shown instead of the lies spouted on both sides in the 2016 referendum . Foot was an intellectual and much respected and my god he was right. Heath, Major and Brown conned us all. I voted remain, in the event there’s a second referendum i will vote to leave.

[@rattusnorvegicus4380]

2:27...Heath contradicts himself by turning a previous example he was using on its head

[@davidtanycoed]

Veto's come with consequences for the country that use's it

[@markgillett5679]

Funny how Michael foot was completely spot on , About us being run from a load of unelected Brussels demigods

[@johnking5174]

9:40 - Seems Mr Heath enjoyed his food back in the 70s, judging by the size of his neck here.

[@zeddeka]

He was diagnosed with a thyroid problem around this time

[@alban1959]

What an incredibly stupid comment

[@davidstallard3840]

Quess what Michael Foot was right , so sometimes a politician does tell the truth ,

[@wildbill8635]

(Michael) "... & Mr Heath, I can tell you this, mark these words: We WILL finish BOTTOM in the Eurovision Song Contest, not just once too.." Ha! There were only 9 countries in the Common Market in the 70s. Eastern Europe has just invented ANOTHER country now called North Macedonia. They've only just joined the Eurovision Contest & they didnt finish bottom either! The EU wants a EU army now, yeah if Russia wouldnt be bovered. So we would have Hungary Poland Romania & the rest of 'em in the EU Army & Russia would view this as a utter provocation. Why else would you have a EU Army. But hey its the bonkers EU wanting more more & more. It interfered in the sensitive Ukrainian politics which got Russia's back up & guess what happened. Great debate, not one soundbite & in the main they listened to each other (tho I dont think they actually got on!).

[@alban1959]

Can you provide a translation of this?

[@robertmercermercer2530]

why can't I find part two is therecsome sort of conspiracy?

[@artdeco9535]

The EU didn't intervene for Catalonia

[@alban1959]

And?

[@paulphilipempey1]

Michael 1 -v- Ted 0

[@albertross252]

Whilst Foot’s perspective in 1975 was understandable his prognosis of the future hasn’t been born out. The UK as a member did not introduce a written constitution, did not have to join the Euro and the inevitable federal super state is no closer today than then. Whilst his point on democracy is true a false impression is given that continued all the way to Brexit. The decisions subject to this process were mostly about the wattage of kettles and the like rather than the impression of fundamental matters on how the NHS is run or funded for example. The history of ‘juggernauts’ is instructive - the EU wanted to standardise the max weight of trucks for cross border traffic. The UK resisted the move and secured an exemption so that whilst everyone else operated at 44 tonnes any truck entering the UK was at 38 tonnes with obvious detriment to efficient trading. This exemption was driven by public fears of 44 tonne juggernauts, but by 1999 it came to an end and 44 tonners quietly began UK operation with no ill effect. It’s great to exercise sovereignty, but to what effect ?

[@thischannelhasnoname5780]

What a shifty bastard Heath was

[@bubbasmoleyay9799]

Uncle Tedy and his rent boys

[@alban1959]

You are a moron

[@who9387]

Ecoomic & monetary union ? Thak God we didn't sign up to that.

[@henrywalker5746]

i have always held the opiniom that ted heath did all this for ted heath! a bit like the wee krankie now? out of the eec before it devours us!

[@simongleaden2864]

01:26 "the housewife". Gosh, that dates this recording. Almost no-one would say that today: it would be "the consumer".

[@23rdjune]

Watch at 1:15 for a few seconds. That word has now vanished from the English language.

[@ajs41]

Which word? I didn't hear anything that isn't used today. Oh, you mean "housewife"...

[@frederickrawson7956]

fair industrial competition what industry do the uk now own mr heath because we dont see any

[@zeddeka]

I hardly think that was his fault. Maybe you need to ask Margaret thatcher.

[@scarletharlot69]

sad to see Michael Food heading into surious territory and British Exceptionalism at 8:00 onwards

[@loungejay8555]

1:24 "and what the housewife is going to get..."

[@theoilandgasresourceportal2132]

Becky Long-Bailey for Labour leader, our Becky would have bossed this debate..... innit

[@duncanmiller1288]

😳

[@johnwalters5131]

Michael Foote MP intellectual giant / teddy heath , gullible and short sighted could not see the danger of EU undemocratic expansion .

[@thomasm1964]

John Walters Actually, he could. He knew perfectly well what the ultimate aim of the then common market was - and there are documents to prove it. The man was a pathological liar and anti-democrat. Hateful man.

[@herbert9241]

@@thomasm1964 - Yep, and totally compromised.

[@theweeflea]

Edward Heath was a liar who knew what the EU was about but deliberately lied to the British people...He knew that the EU was a supranational body, not a confederation of nations...Foot at least seemed to be honest and showed far more intellectual robustness...

[@alban1959]

But where is your evidence? Give examples. Prove your point. Making a claim doesn't make the claim justified. Why does NOBODY here justify claims?

[@attkattk1074]

reptil

[@si4632]

So nothing has changed boris is a remainer and corbyn is a leaver lol

[@pandora8478]

Corbyn has always been a eurosceptic.

[@markmacthree3168]

The same gobshitery today ..... gallows 🧐💯🤓

[@tonyjohn1395]

Worzel gummidge and bottoms up.

[@rattusnorvegicus4380]

...sitting around a table knocked up in the Blue Peter studio.

[@petergreen2552]

How many reckon Mr Foot was wearing a donkey jacket? 😵 That's what most people think of if you ask them about him. Sad. A brilliant politician.