Common Mistake for English Speakers Who Learn Russian: Soft and Hard Consonants

[@catboy721]

Unfortunately, whenever native Russian speakers try to explain this, they never define 'soft' -- and soft/hard have very narrow definitions beyond the linguistic one. It's palatalization, which is a tough concept without further training in linguistics or sound articulation. But ultimately, if soft sounds are the only thing foreign speakers get wrong, they're doing really well... means they survived cases, verbs of motion, aspect, ы and other dealbreakers!

[@Theyoutuberpolyglot]

They can’t because they don’t realise how they make that sound naturally. It’s not all about “ I am a native speaker and you have to copy my pronunciation”. “We learners, try our best to make those sounds understandable. Native Russian native speakers focus on grammar too much. They should break those sounds down and go into details. It is not as easy as listen to as I said the words and then repeat after me.

[@Dennis_LearnGeek]

To me, palatalization of a consonant is saying the consonant and the [j] sound (as in you) AT THE SAME TIME. Which is super hard if you never learned to do it as a child.

[@Dennis_LearnGeek]

Actually, I think English does have palatalized consonants. Pay attention at how you pronounce "league" in American English. I believe the [g] at the end is palatalized. The pronunciation is something like this: [li:jg]. So, we have a j and a g that meet together. Similarly, "like" is pronounced [lajk], so there is also a "soft" k sound.

[@catboy721]

@@Dennis_LearnGeek I would agree on your example, although that "G" is not palatalized before other English vowels so a tough sell. Native English speakers aren't taught that consonants have different points of articulation. Nor, I imagine, are native RUSSIAN learners. But for people learning Russian, the explanation should always be expanded beyond just soft/hard to be understood.

[@Dennis_LearnGeek]

​@@catboy721Yes, you're right, I can't think of any examples of a palatalized G before a vowel. But in "league", a Russian learner can at least analyze the position of their tongue, pronounce the last G sound on its own and try to put a vowel after it. That's probably how I would do it. (But I'm a native Russian speaker 😅, so it's easy for me to say)

[@yakari_68]

never saw someone explain palatalisation so well, thanks a lot

[@pashakovalenko690]

@@yakari_68 thank you for the comment!

[@CheLanguages]

This was a very helpful video! I've been trying to get the hang of these sounds for a while now

[@pashakovalenko690]

@@CheLanguages thank you for the comment!

[@JFox29]

Make more videos! Really enjoy them and helps me as well. I am currently learning Russian on my own. Thanks for your helpful vids!

[@pashakovalenko690]

@@JFox29 thank you for the comment John!

[@astrOtuba]

There are several things I'd add: Both palatalized and not palatalized consonants of Russian (and many other languages with such distinction) are different from English ones. “Hard” consonants are actually a bit “harder” too. The most famous example is L, the “hard” version of which is velarized [ɫ] (IPA), the back of the tongue is raised toward soft palate. Sometimes it's called “the dark L” and it actually appears in the Standard American English in words like _fill._ Russian soft T and D are more palatalized than other consonants, they are somewhere between [tʲ] [dʲ] and [t͡sʲ] [d͡zʲ], so for a speaker of another language with palatalization like Lithuanian they often sound like soft Ts and Dz. The part of the problem in my opinion is Russian romanisation. Like, c'mon, ⟨Y⟩ represents /j/ like in я (ya) /ja/, palatalization /ʲ/ like in нет (nyet) /nʲet/ and /ɨ/ like in сыр (syr) /sɨr/.

[@altekamerad]

You explained this perfectly, I'm... alright at pronouncing hard/soft consonants, but the way which you explained it/practiced it has strengthened my Russian mind-mouth connection. Also, this type of unedited video is much appreciated from the other super-edited dopamine-fueled language learning videos. Thanks, 8/10 stars

[@VenomVaxo]

Btw, the "softness" of a consonant is not only a Slavic feature, the same thing has been found in other languages of the world, for example in Irish, where it's called slender consonants, or in Romanian, Estonian, Latvian, Kashmiri, some dialects of Adyghe etc.

[@Erika-us6xz]

As a Russian named Яся I really appreciate your effort to explain this topic!

[@viniaz2997]

Отлично всё объяснил, мне понравилось! Вроде всё понятно и дожно быть просто в дальнейшем. Отличное упражнение для начала могло бы быть прекрасное русское предложение с пятью ЛИ подряд "Полили ли лилии?"

[@pashakovalenko690]

@@viniaz2997 отличная идея!

[@Spscc23998]

I've been studying Russian for years, and have even read some works of Dostoyevsky and Bulgakov in the original. But when it comes to speaking, I still have to make a conscious effort to pronounce hard and soft "Л" distinctly. The ш/щ distinction still gives me trouble.

[@pashakovalenko690]

@@Spscc23998 thank you for your comment! You gave me an idea for a video, I’ll talk about the difference between ш/щ

[@ErinaBee.sMoney]

@@pashakovalenko690 ш is like Polish sz, щ is like Polish ś, but schools in Poland teach it wrong, they teach щ as szcz

[@dimitryrusu4022]

I think the lack of palatalization (the matter of the video) is the biggest pronunciation problem of English speakers. To my opinion it's 90% of what they have to fix to sound way more natural

[@АннаБайгушева-ж7ъ]

Я русская, преподаю английский. Но как лингвисту мне интересно и то, как иностранцы учат русский. И эта ошибка в произношении меня всегда бесила, мучал вопрос, почему это не пытаются исправить, насколько сложно англоговорящему человеку усвоить концепт смягчения согласных. Видео крутое, подробно описано все, надеюсь, кому-нибудь поможет.

[@Theyoutuberpolyglot]

It is not as easy as you think. Russian is not English. My native language is Portuguese. We have a bunch of nasal sounds like French. Teachers like you should focus on pronunciation and not too much on grammar. I will be in trouble if my pronunciation is bad. If my pronunciation is good, but my grammar sucks, I will make myself understood.

[@elkigirl123]

It is most useful to just put letters on the screen and pronounce them to hear the difference. It’s often over complicated. The soft vowels are a glide, preceded by a y. In other words yo instead of o and so on. Not a vowel y but a consonant y. This affects the preceding consonant. The y right after the consonant raises the tongue and affects the consonant. Then there are the small handful of consonants that are considered either hard or soft on their own. You just memorize them.

[@raneemaly6223]

I am mind blown

[@katerinadidenka]

Хорошее видео. Немцы и британцы именно так и произносили мое имя, со звуком j. Как приятно слушать ваш американский акцент, а с кем вы его ставили?

[@PavelPavel-hh6ld]

а его реально нужно именнно "ставить"? мне кажется это просто огромная практика+ осознанность на том как говорить, подражать носителю. а "ставить" это какая то прескриптивистская история)

[@katerinadidenka]

@PavelPavel-hh6ld одной осознанности недостаточно, чтобы так хорошо говорить, нужно заниматься с тем, кто знает как произносятся звуки и особенности слитной речи в потоке. Можно и боевыми искусствами начать самому заниматься, но правильность удара гораздо быстрее поставит мастер, как и в любом другом деле, сноуборд, например.

[@pashakovalenko690]

Спасибо, я много учителей и материалов перебрал. Я примерно два года очень много времени уделял произношению и занимался минут по 10-20 в день простыми фонетическими упражнениями. Плюс попугайничал за носителями с 2-3 миллисекундным отставанием. Из учителей мне очень нравится Amy Walker, у неё есть серия видео How to do An American Accent. Очень просто, без лишней информации, но всё по существу. Недавно я открыл Mastering the American Accent от Lisa Mojsin. Тоже очень нравится. Плюс другие учителя на ютубе в основном.

[@katerinadidenka]

@@pashakovalenko690 Спасибо! мне тоже нравится Amy, особенно как из её команды Alex Brown объясняет

[@pashakovalenko690]

@ а так вы ее уже смотрите! Да она классная

[@artemakin]

This is a really helpful video, I sent it to my English speaking friends. Although I think the terms "soft/hard" don't mean much to English speakers, as their native language doesn't have this distinction. It's like explaining Arabic emphatic consonants to a Russian speaker, it'll be just as confusing 😅

[@pashakovalenko690]

If someone is learning Russian and Russian phonetics, this concept is essential and cannot be avoided.

[@rtperrett]

As an example in English, isn't the m in music? Isn't that palatalized for simply just a y glide before the u?

[@pashakovalenko690]

Yes, most consonants + [j] as in music or new resemble Russian soft consonants. Same as if you try to pronounce them with an И as is often recommended when we are tought these sounds. The tongue movement is similiar. The difference is, however, in the lenght of that [j]. If it's too pronounced and too long, Russian speakers register it as Петья, and not Петя, for example.

[@pashakovalenko690]

Or as if we are tought in Russian phonetics, there is no [j], it's not identified as [j] in soft consonants. It's not [tj] but [т']. Russian phonetics finds this difference quite important and it's mirrored in our transcription.

[@CorrectHorse126]

It sounds to my English ears just like you're saying "it's not P-yotr, it's Py-otr"... And as soon as you say it quickly the two versions sound exactly the same. (Yes I know they're not, but sadly my English ears don't know). I can hear a "y" sound clearly in all your examples except the ones with и 🤷‍♀️ Brains are weird!

[@pashakovalenko690]

Yes I guess it’s about how our native language affects our perception of sounds. But then yeah, when I pronounce it fast, the difference is minimal

[@astrOtuba]

There are few things from other languages that can help. Russian soft *н (n)* is similar to Spanish *ñ.* Compare how they pronounce it in _piña_ (piñata, piña colada) or _España_ with English _no_ or _name_ Russian soft *х (kh)* is similar to *h* in *huge,* but in English the sound can be followed by the _yes_ *y* sound while in Russian it's just a _soft_ *h.* The hard Russian *х (kh)* is similar to *j* in Spanish _jalapeño_ and you can pronounce it by holding your tongue as if you're about to pronounce *k* (or *c* like in _car_ for ex.) but instead of a short single puff release the air like you're pronouncing *h,* while keeping tongue in the *k* position. Also it looks like in English (at least in some varieties) consonants are pronounced softer before /i/ (ee) sound like in _key,_ and harder in words like _car_

[@altekamerad]

@@astrOtuba 100%, Spanish has been the mother of all crutches for my russian learning journey.

[@erofeybashunov8981]

@@astrOtuba I'd say that English-speakers can approximate the palatalization in Russian by adding /i/ sound instead of /j/ sound between consonants and vowels. As you said, sometimes consonants that stand before /i/ (ee/ea/etc.) sound kinda soft in English, and this would also work before compound sounds like /ie/, /ia/, /io/ and /iu/. For example, you can try to say vietka instead of vjetka for the word 'ветка' (eng: branch). Moreover, some of slavic languages use this feature in orthography to define the palatalization. For example, the word 'dzień' (rus: день, eng: day). And I really think that for foreigner that learn Russian it would be much more comfortable to see Latin-transcription of Russian words with another orthography that would imply the using this feature for transliteration vowels that make consonants soft. Something like víetka and díenȷ́ to distinct it with real i vowel.

[@elkigirl123]

@@astrOtuba yeah the soft consonants mostly just have the slight y effect after them so soft n is like ñ etc.

[@jackpassananti3300]

the most difficult sound for me is ы but i also notice myself saying у like the english "y" when it is at the end of the word. like "кошку" becomes "koshki" (and yes, i know its incorrect)...I don't know why i do it

[@FacefulJizz]

If it helps you... Listen to the sound you make in the word "this." These are the "ы".

[@torontoboy8162]

As a Russian native speaker (and not a teacher whatsoever, tbh) I always thought about how to explain to the foreigners, what can be done in order to sound better with this ы sound. And I think I found an answer. For me, in most cases, especially in fast speech and in unstressed position, ы is interchangeable with э. I mean, if you struggle with pronouncing ы sound, it is better to say э than to say something like и. Ты пришёл ≈ тЭ пришёл. Мы выходили ≈ мЭ вЭходили. This already sounds natural, I think I even often hear it from Russians themselves, especially those, who have some kind of dialect.

[@FacefulJizz]

@@torontoboy8162 он же буквально воспримет.

[@thomaslangbein297]

the English pronunciation of ”bill“ is exactly the same as of the Russian ”был“. The problem is that they don’t explain it like that. They make a great fuzz of sth that in fact isn’t that complicated at all.

[@torontoboy8162]

@@thomaslangbein297 it’s not this very sound. i in word bill is closer to Ukrainian и sound, which is similar to Russian, but still is not the same. The Russian ы is deeper. But still, a good analogy though.

[@Lorde_Prime]

Привьет - вот кто возродит звук ѣ(ять), исчезнувший к концу 18 века, иностранцы!

[@mihanich]

Это получается что если бы сейчас услышали наших предков, произносящих ѣ, то они бы звучали для нас как иностранцы со своим "сидьэть" и "ньэт"?

[@Lorde_Prime]

@mihanich Ну совсем как иностранцы на вряд ли, но особенный призвук именно в этих местах был бы) Ведь иностранцы произносят "ять" вообще везде на месте е, а не только в нужным местах)

[@PotentialGrim]

As a spanish speaker R and Р sound pretty much the same. But how do you know the difference between hard and soft R?

[@pashakovalenko690]

@@PotentialGrim hi! Thank you for the comment. When I make the soft Р the principle here is the same. My tongue is wider so when I’m trilling the Р, the surface that contacts the roof of my mouth is wider. Smiling when pronouncing it and widening the tongue should help. Also you can look up «мягкая рь» on KZbin to see some guides. I’m sure you will be able to understand with even the basic knowledge of Russian.

[@Theyoutuberpolyglot]

@@pashakovalenko690in Spanish and also in Portuguese, we have the hard r and the soft r, but the r is almost silent. It seems to me the soft consonant sounds soft and a bit longer than the hard ones. When you say день it seems to me that the d sounds like d+i. Брат и брать - that t sounds a bit longer and tss. It is not an abrupt unique sound. It is hard to explain what I am trying to say.

[@pashakovalenko690]

@@Theyoutuberpolyglot no I understand what you are saying. Hard consonants do sound shorter and more abrupt to me, and when I pronounce soft T there is air flowing through like it would if I said Ts, it’s just that the air flow is not enough to fully register it as a full С sound

[@Errouy1]

1. When “Р” is at the end of a word, softness is indicated with the letter Ь, e.g.: : жар -- жарь, пар -- парь, вихор -- вихрь. 2. If the consonant P stands in the middle of the word, then (a) After it is necessarily put Ь, if it is followed by a hard consonant, for example: борьба, гурьба. b) do not put a Ь if it is followed by a soft consonant, for example: червяк, скатерть, верфь. 3. Softness can be indicated by the vowels Я, Ю, Е instead of А, У, О, Е with dots and Э, e.g.: рад -- ряд, сер -- сэр (ты сер, а я, приятель, сед) , кросс - крест.

[@elkigirl123]

Just imagine a slight y after the soft P, if noticeable at all.

[@joselevicanasenjo2171]

your soft letters sound still alittle hadr and your hard consobnants sounds a little softer than the Russian accent... that is why i feel