Common windtunnel mistakes

Gary Anderson is at Lola with Chris Saunders and Mark Williams to investigate the finer details of wind tunnel programs. We discover how the smallest detail change can change the whole outlook of a design and how having a facility thats up to scratch really can make a difference.

[@blathers_13]

Hate it when the belt lifts up gets me every day

[@keiththompson5298]

That boundary layer gets me every time.

[@person8203]

same, such a git

[@Synystr7]

Thanks for the reminder. I'll keep this in mind.

[@mrrondini2585]

Glad to see you are into this stuff too XD Edit: grammar

[@Synystr7]

Hello loyal subscriber :D

[@isaacz9325]

McLaren need to watch this

[@StarFox85]

😊😊😂😂😂what a yoke!

[@kurtphillips124]

*Williams

[@isaacz9325]

Kurt Phillips and them

[@eisenadler4942]

It's ironic that one of these guys actually used to work for McLaren.

[@Brian.Kleven]

Ouch 💀

[@Law0fRevenge]

jokes aside, this was actually really interesting

[@mrrolandlawrence]

aways good to see gary delving into the details of f1.

[@nordimejia5790]

Mistakes do get made (shows an image of Mclaren).... Jeje

[@nUKerATsKi]

Where do they find peeps to drive that car? I would think it would be tough to get into.

[@nUKerATsKi]

Sorry, I think you missed my terrible joke. It was in regards to the size of the car not the type of car. lol I realize it is a model, just joking. "How do they find people to fit into such a small car?"

[@jacobgalan8028]

Whooosh

[@illdeletethismusic]

the sharkfin does not help against lifting off, mostly it just improves lateral stability. the liftoff and backflip prevention are those holes above the front wheels

[@mortuarykrematorium4650]

nUKerATsKi 😂 good joke lol

[@reckanize]

What is this? A car for ANTS?!

[@moriarteaa4692]

Ahh thanks, I had some issues with the belt scratching the floor. I'll probably rebuilt it this weekend. Can anyone tell me if the leveling screws are enough to get the ride-level right, or should I use a pneumatic system🤔

[@WaterxDragon35]

Just use Mclaren's secret by using some superglue.

[@breakwood8531]

That was cool to see, thank you. Best f1 show out their.

[@grendelum]

*Sauber* made a *_much_* more detailed and well produced video that’s *_everything_* you wanted to know about modern wind tunnels a few years back, it’s _well_ worth the 40+ minute watch (they actually explain how those holes in front of the belt are sucking in the boundary layer and such) and can be found here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gXSTdmOtipucpLc

[@freelancerider100]

Thank you will check it out!

[@havrik2101]

I've always wondered does wind speed scale with the model size. So if you were testing a 1/18 scale model, to simulate 200 mph for the model would the fans have to push about 10 mph or does it stay the same speed for every size?

[@toonverbruggen7351]

Well to get the right reynolds numbers you would have to increase the wind speed with a factor 18. So yes, it scales, but the other way around. I don't think they do that though.

[@Doofenshmirtz1088]

I don't think you can really rely on scaled models because wind behaves differently at different scales, particularly the difference between laminar and turbulent flow, relating to the Reynolds number mentioned by the previous commenter.

[@tank-eleven]

“If that rear wing works, we will have to rebuild the BMW wind tunnel" catch the quote

[@1312_PV]

BMW engineer when that one pesky Mercedes Evo 2 DTM car was introduced.

[@nucspartan321]

Great video

[@ognjenvlahovic3195]

Williams need to watch this

[@GeneralKenobiSIYE]

Lola is back?!?! HOLY FUCK!! YAAAAAAAAY!!

[@mosca3289]

Super interesting.

[@grendelum]

John Button - a *_much_* more well developed video on the subject is here... kzbin.info/www/bejne/gXSTdmOtipucpLc

[@hayeslewis]

if it's so difficult to have the same stiffness in the model, why not eat the expense of 1:1 wind tunnels?

[@alpharomeo7310]

I'm curious as well

[@rkan2]

Well obviously modeling properly is still going to end up cheaper...

[@hayeslewis]

Than wheeling the real thing in a wind tunnel? At some point all that model making eclipses the cost difference to a 100% tunnel. Never understood this.

[@alpharomeo7310]

Making changes to full size parts would be rather expensive. I'm imagining that remaking full size front wings for every small design change would blow the budget pretty fast.

[@illdeletethismusic]

the comparably cheaper series Nascar uses full size wind tunnels, Haas Windshear is even big enough to test how two cars behind each other affect each other

[@freelancerider100]

How can the effect of a running engine be known without having tested as such?

[@WaterxDragon35]

All this is nice and all, but they didn't answer my question about what window to keep the turbine oscillation within.

[@andrewjackson4773]

"We didn't have stiff models! That's why we're last on the grid" -Williams F1

[@mortuarykrematorium4650]

Andrew Jackson nonono, Ericson hit us.

[@kerricklogan3801]

Lots of funny sarcasm here, good stuff YT. But a serious question here, wouldn't a certain level of uneven surface testing be worthwhile? I mean, no track is absolutely perfect and ignorantly deciding it's close enough is... well, ignorant isnt it?

[@afoxwithahat7846]

No

[@Dinghly]

What is boundary layer and the belt lifting??? Could anyone explain such seemingly technical words???

[@blockhead330]

I know this is a bit late But basically a boundry layer is a very small amount of air that pretty much sits still on the surface of the road, kinda like a thin layer of ice. Now the reason why they want to get rid of this is that a normal road doesn't have it cause all the air is sitting pretty much still not blown through a fan like in a wind tunnel. Belt lifting is simply when the belt (the black surface that acts like a road similar to a treadmill) lifts up due to the suction of the car

[@jasmijnariel]

Strange that they support the model in the front, not from the back were it is less important...on the front it disturbs a lot of airflow

[@AdzSONLINE]

4:58 New MasterCard-Lola model

[@jasmijnariel]

The engine air intake is closed down 😂

[@MrDewanchand]

My wind tunnel makes noise when I let the air out.

[@SINIS0RSA]

Have you seen any McLarens in your "wind tunnel" lately?

[@StarFox85]

whos better? Dallara or lola?

[@freelancerider100]

The amount of air taken for combustion, and the exaust stream both are substantial! The noise level, and engine harmonics cause cavitation... Cycled trembling of the chassis from gear functions, and axle gyration or magnisun effect-

[@ssifr3331]

The moment when the windtunnel started sends chill down my spine.

[@headlibrarian1996]

Does the fact that the tunnel’s ground plane is smooth but a real road surface is rough make no meaningful difference?

[@KrolKaz]

What are some uncommon mistakes , or rare mistakes that may occur ?

[@daanstam6697]

I like how williams is the first car you see

[@andreaskociok6715]

do I see a lola LMP1 car?

[@mr8I7]

Andreas Kociok - I thought it was the Peugeot 908 on first viewing.

[@BLITZKRIEG1]

I have that pink polo

[@ravex24]

I have the belt issue and the boundary layer down. The problem is that the neighbors keep calling the cops because of excessive noise. Can you please make a video about how to not have the cops up my ass?

[@inkdreams5113]

I made errors in my wind tunnel, too much air not enough down force.

[@BeyondtheTherapyDoor]

Williams, take notes... 😉

[@camcambambam5128]

Golf balls are the most aerodynamic shape know to man rn, rivets added to a car they can increase mpg up to 10mpg, 1 test showed up too 19mpg increase

[@zzrzz6199]

That car still looks more believable than the moon landing

[@cartersims1309]

Have Williams f1 watched this video

[@m300679]

To prevent the lift of the belt, just let it run over a reversed air hockey table!

[@v10f1]

I think my diy wind tunnel needs fixing then.

[@zNoah]

Take notes, Mclaren

[@ImranShamsul]

Hate when I can't afford a wind tunnel and I have to blow on the model

[@yosyp5905]

Why are we still using wind tunnels? Isn't simulation pretty much perfect now?

[@andrewmancini46]

NOOOOO! Simulation is almost perfect (like 99% accurate) for structures, but fluids/aero it's not -- especially for complex and detailed analysis (it also takes tons of computing power). Basically you need to start with a "model" (set of parameters), verify it with physical testing, then if there are any discrepancies, return to the model and iterate until you have comparable data that you're satisfied with. If you're interested in the subject, you can read about CFD (computational fluid dynamics) and FEA.

[@yosyp5905]

@@andrewmancini46 forgot the rather "unpredictable" nature of fluids...

[@steveramm5982]

They're both inaccurate in different ways. Current computing power isn't up to the task of a CFD simulation that solves the complete set of fluid flow equations (Navier-Stokes) so there are numerical models that approximate turbulence. Typically, you're looking at a couple of percentage points off in lift and drag. Wind tunnels, on the other hand have scaling issues. You can't just make a scale model of something and throw it in a wind tunnel and assume that the air is going to act the same way as it does with a full scale car. When you test in a wind tunnel, you have to run the tunnel at the inverse of the model scale. So, if you want to simulate a car at 100mph with a 50% scale model, you have to run the tunnel at 200mph to equate the two. Doing that fulfills the requirement of equating the Reynolds number but you have to equate two factors to get it right and nearly nobody does that. The right way to do it is to pressurize the wind tunnel or use a gas that's denser than air. Both of these methods are extremely expensive and rarely used outside of NASA or other aerospace organizations. So, you do both ... compare the results ... hope they validate each other and build a car and test. Full scale tunnels are the way to go but IIRC, their use was banned by F1 on the basis of cost.

[@Aladinscave]

Want to make the model a RC car 😁

[@duon44]

Wouldn’t the real cars be even less stiff than the models? Because i would imagine the larger you make it the less the material is structurally stiff in itself

[@willparry]

Racing drivers must be tiny to be able to fit in a car that big.

[@zzrzz6199]

What is this??... Some kind of car for ants?!?! That car needs to be atleast.....3x bigger!

[@afoxwithahat7846]

It's perfect

[@zzrzz6199]

@@afoxwithahat7846 kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZfJm2uJfdeVoZI

[@afoxwithahat7846]

@@zzrzz6199 it's expensive

[@utahnl]

Isn't a small scale wind tunnel kind of pointless? Small scale aerodynamics don't translate to full scale aerodynamics right?

[@illdeletethismusic]

many fia controlled series only allow small scale tunnels

[@pjay3028]

I believe the Reynolds number sorts that out. Engineers always have an answer.

[@Blockbuster2033]

They do translate if you do the math correctly

[@tabaksmozaiekvirus1715]

4th

[@Alpha-Alpha]

How about some demo instead of pure talking

[@galibmahfuzullah6152]

I'd like that too

[@josephshubin8465]

The model has carbon wheels, lol.

[@PhunkBustA]

wind tunnels are inherently flawed, what about cross wind, and especially cross wind while cornering, and static objects blocking wind causing very sharp anomalies, these thing would be very difficult to replicate/simulate

[@PhunkBustA]

as far as im aware wind tunnels can only apply tension in one axis?

[@PhunkBustA]

which isnt always the case in real life

[@fenhen]

Mistake #1: It’s not in a tunnel. Fail, guys!

[@SpamMeGooglification]

"Suction is key" Monica Lewinksi.

[@BoliMeKurac]

When I use my wind tunnel, it stinks up the whole room

[@jacksonbermingham2168]

Nice..... sounds like f1 still cant over complicate aero.f1 need to be atleast 5 season in advance in aero develop ment to make the racing fair. but sense its the pinnacle it will never be reached

[@forcedmedia]

Could Autosport make explaining aero any more boring? I almost pulled the trigger on the GLock 17 9mm I had in my mouth.!

[@felixs9722]

you want them to make up stuff for you? or give you the information they have?

[@FiddlerSteve]

Do you want to hear from real engineers or from announcers without actual experience?

[@humanbeing9079]

Forced Media ,shut your face you self-righteous narcissistic fuck

[@richardtickler8555]

air moves, moving air does magic forcy bits and goes woooosh. there you go aero in 10s seconds

[@SkateGeneva]

This video is clearly not intended for normal motorsport fans but for students, or interns in a big company starting out for example. I find it interesting and not boring at all because I can relate with what's being said. Besides aero isn't just "OMG look at this enormous wing it creates so much downforce oh wow it has grooves". No need to be so dramatic

[@Montross]

Hire better Modelmakers

[@JL-cn1qi]

3 Men explaining whey they are there instead of working for an actual racing team.

[@1312_PV]

Two of them work for racing teams.