Comparing Lag and Ghosting for Every GBA handheld

I decided to grab all official GBA handhelds to make some comparisons, and I made some findings that I'll likely explore further in the future.
I noticed I completely forgot to mention my methodology in the video. I used my iPhone at 240fps and recorded myself pressing a button as quickly as I could, then counted the frames between pushing the button and the action appearing on screen. For GB, I used the gun firing in Metroid 2, and for GBA I used the gun firing in Metroid Fusion. I used about 32 samples for each test and calculated the average milliseconds and in-game frames based on those numbers.
Music:
Route 99 (Act 1) - Sonic Advance 3

[@MatthiasTheMouseWarrior]

This is one of the most interesting videos I have seen in a while. It is fascinating that the DS plays GBA games slower than the original hardware. I am looking forward to your future videos.

[@Dark_Jaguar]

The Super Gameboy has a similar clock speed issue resolved in the Super Gameboy 2.

[@MarkDell]

So professionally put together. I look forward to more videos from this input lag channel

[@zacarrie1993]

This is a great video! I would be interested in seeing how the FunnyPlaying ITA screens from the DSI compare to their V2 IPS Lag. Since it's closer to the 101 screens but has a chip like the IPS.

[@joshs2235]

I have the ITA kit as my daily driver and I don't notice any perceivable difference in input lag between that and a stock AGB-001

[@Izquierda]

This will be a pretty important video. Thanks for sharing your findings! It's good that you noticed and commented on the different "color palettes" between the original unlit GBA/GBA Micro/DS phat on the one hand, and everything else on the other. The difference is not just about vibrancy or saturation of colors, but the former screens use a different, non-standard color space. The GBA Consolizer, MiSTer GBA core, GBI, and some emulators have color filter options to simulate those screens with what would be indeed more accurate colors.

[@ItzSilentFox]

This was a really awesome and informative video, great job! I love style of the way this video was done. You deserve much more subs for the effort!

[@jfroco]

Came here from RetroRGB....Thank you very much for the video!!! Excellent content and very funny.

[@skins4thewin]

Sheesh.... Funny hearing about the bad input lag of these IPS screen mods yet everyone is just raving about them. Nobody seems to know or even care about the technical aspects of things. I think it's extremely important so it's a real shame that this isn't being more widely talked about.

[@augustocorrea]

what do you think of dsi screen mods?

[@EmperorOfTigers]

Fantastic video. I think you've done a fantastic job presenting all the information and it's not something I've seen covered before.

[@ibraibraibraibraibra]

This is a really good video. Nice to see some more people coming up who are interested in doing tests like this. I wasn’t aware that the GBA IPS kits had lag issues, that’s kinda crazy since they’ve really taken over as one of the go-to options. Looking forward to more of this kind of stuff!

[@alexsmith1948]

I like how you dive into the niche sort of stuff that's hard to find numbers for. I hope you do that backwards-compatibility video!

[@chadwolf3840]

great video. I wish i'd watched this before installing my IPS kits. I'd love to see the lag added to those specs in the future before buying.

[@Kry0hiphop]

I love the recent videos and thumbnails keep up the good work

[@skins4thewin]

This was an awesomely detailed video! I love content providers who are technical & clearly know their stuff. You have yourself a new subscriber.

[@VirtuaVillain]

DS Phat is kind of underrated for GBA games, I wish it was possible to transplant that screen into an og GBA shell

[@kodyporter]

Buy one with a broken hinge, and do the GBA macro mod, just need a fuse to solder on

[@TheMasterSpecter]

Great job on the research/experimenting!

[@surfboarding5058]

Subbed awesome content bro !!

[@paulink]

incredible analysis, and great background music. Sonic Advance 3 was my fav of the trilogy.

[@whiskeyvengeance]

Great idea for a video, very much looking forward to the Nintendo back-compat lag test video as well

[@freddychopin]

Over a year later and there still is no next one 😭 Bell notifications on, just in case.

[@kaboomkp]

Breh this content is so well produced

[@AVUM47]

This video was super helpful. Thank you!

[@mello_yello_man]

I never knew what the screen aging software was used for, this video was incredibly informative!!

[@tret167]

Great information. Never thought to ever check out!

[@JuanjoNarive]

Great content, please test the Funnyplaying ITA display for GBA, allegedly will not suffer any lag since it's using native resolution, but would be very useful to see your findings! also the AGS-101 screen inside the standard GBA would be great!

[@MarceloMedeirosb]

I would love to see numbers on GBA emulation running on a modded psvita. The OLED screen make it awesome to play gba games, but im not sure how bad is the input lag.

[@leatherhidegaming]

Great video! Learned a lot from this.

[@DoctorHazy]

I felt quite validated after looking down and realizing that I was already subscribed to you lmao

[@RetroRGB]

Great video, but how exactly are you performing your lag tests? LED light connected to a button with a high speed camera to reference button push with movement on screen?

[@SirSethery]

Oh, I completely forgot to mention in the video. I used the same method as my previous video, just hitting the button as quickly as possible with my finger and recording at 240fps, counting from when it looks like I’ve hit the button to when something happens on screen, taking around 32 samples for each test. I believe I used Metroid 2 for GB and Metroid Fusion for GBA, measuring the time to shoot. I don’t like the ambiguity in knowing when the button is _actually_ activated, so I’m actually planning to use an LED connected to the button for my future tests (already took some measurements that way, and it’s definitely more reliable).

[@RetroRGB]

@@SirSethery I think my reply got deleted. I offered to send you an LED kit for free and put my email address...that must have triggered the auto delete. Are you on social media?

[@SirSethery]

​@@RetroRGB Oh wow! I don't use much social media, and I haven't gotten serious about this channel enough to set anything up for it, but thanks so much for offering! I don't know how long it'll be before I get to finishing my next video, might be next year with stuff going on for me right now, but I was able to put something together with leftover electronics from college (I did computer engineering) that should work well enough for any controller/system I want to test. Thanks though!

[@DefekacjaOdbyta]

Thanks for this video. It was exactly what I was looking for.

[@xun3]

nice video, well researched and studied. The data is awesome! Good going on the verification of your data.

[@myhobbychannel2207]

Excellent video bro 👍

[@dbnpoldermans4120]

thanks for lag testing! please more lag tests interesting stuff respect subscribed

[@coreywhompus]

You should try GBA Runner 2 on a modded DSi XL. Would be interested in how those IPS screens perform and I have seen people say the input lag is an improvement over 3DS virtual console. Would love to have that tested thoroughly.

[@nicolaspaesi2846]

0:22 subscribed

[@GayDingo]

You should try the DSi with the GBA hypervisor called GBARunner2. The extra frame of lag thing is stated in the menu when you select a center and frame option. Disabling that makes the game go to the top left corner of the screen and expands the rendering to the entire 4:3 display. It's pretty cool.

[@GayDingo]

Oh yeah you should def give DSi homebrew a try. All DSi XLs have big fat large 4.2" IPS screens. I love playing GBA and DS on it.

[@youarethepower]

Nice video dude

[@thebizzbox]

Now this is content

[@GalaticLobber]

So I found out something. I have a GBA NON-SP using the IPS screen, with a rechargeable battery rated at 1500. When I was moving around with the Mach Bike on my Pokémon Ruby game, I noticed the screen jitter wasn't there compared to the IPS version of the SP. My hypothesis would be because of the rechargeable battery. I DO NOT have an IPS modded GBA that uses two AA batteries to compare yet.

[@alienJIZ1990]

Please test native GC vs Nintendont if you ever get a chance! 🙏Console backward compatibility is notoriously under researched, even moreso in handhelds than in consoles. I think we all kind of assume "well it's using real hardware, why look any deeper than that?" - love that people like you go the extra mile!

[@asherfilms923]

yep, I'm a fan now. that's it.

[@skins4thewin]

I can definitely recommend both the Woozle GBA Consolizer & the new GBAHD Consolizer. Both are amazing & have very low to zero added input lag & have fantastic upscaled HDMI output w various adjustment options.

[@Electrojudaz]

Would be really intresting to know, how all the ips modding and aftermarket AGS-101 screens for the gba compare in Lag. Because those are very well in the Market.

[@SamualN]

does pixel perfect mode improve lag? also since you're talking about homebrew, does gbarunner2 have improved lag?

[@TheOfficalAndI]

Today I was literally thinking, wishing for there to be a specific explanation about the best way to play gba games, including differences in input delay. I'd love to know how a modded DSi compares. I know gbarunner2 doesn't have the best compatibility, but I am still very curious about it. Also I wish I knew how big the input delay is for gba emulation on a psVita (gpSP). AGS-101 models are pretty expensive, what would be your second best choice?

[@alphaking88]

Great video. Is it time to add Analogue Pocket for input lag test? I always wonder how do FPGA devices input lag perform compare to the originals.

[@shaboomski919]

I felt the pain in the ending scene as well lol

[@badreality2]

Thank you. 😊 Ghosting is the reason I prefer a GBA SP 001 screen.

[@Vidalburgos]

Lol love the intro.

[@usb6000]

Thank God I'm not the only crazy one.

[@targetrender9529]

Would like to see a test for the analogue pocket, as well as gba emulation on the anberbic devices to compare.

[@THRACIA776ISTHEGREATEST]

Could you do this for the gameboys as well? I always wondered if the gameboy light had more lag...

[@R4dm1n]

I find it interesting how Nintendo didn't use the exact clock that the GBA used for BC on the DS. Would this be something with the crystal oscillators being different on both hardware families? (assuming the DS even uses one in the first place) It's good to know that it isn't as MUCH as a difference compared to the SGB1 and GB hardware. Maybe you COULD raise the frequency back up to what it was in the GBA, but then of course NDS titles would run 0.12% faster as a result because both CPUs would have to be synchronised. This speed difference is one of my only guesses on why the Nintendo DS didn't have a link port. The other being to cut costs. I wonder if that 0.12% speed difference is enough to cause more input lag, but I wouldn't be too suspicious on that being the reason.

[@julesgamergourmand]

The Game boy advance SP is perfect !

[@joshs2235]

Good video and really interesting tests. Thanks! If I can offer some constructive criticism, the only thing I'd recommend is to change up your background music. The song you choose itself is fine, but it get's annoying quickly due to it repeating during the entire video. I would recommend something a little more mellow, or better yet, rotating a few different songs in depending on the length of your video. Keep it up!

[@SirSethery]

Thanks for the feedback! Yeah, picking music tends to be one of the most difficult parts of finishing a video for me. I was trying to get something fairly recognizable from the GBA library that wouldn’t get a copyright strike, and a lot of them were fairly grating on the ears. Definitely something I’ll think more about going forward.

[@joshs2235]

@@SirSethery Well the Sonic Battle song was CERTAINLY recognizable, so you succeeded there 😆 But yeah, choosing music can be tough, especially in light of copyright. I might recommend going to some popular youtube modding channels and just getting a sense for their ambient music, just to get some inspiration. At the end of the day, it's a minor nitpick and isn't the most important thing in content creation. I hope your channel grows!

[@joshs2235]

Oh and I liked and subscribed to help you out a bit :)

[@arcyarcanine]

I'd like to know your opinion on the Analogue Pocket.

[@skins4thewin]

Honestly, the ghosting can be a bit of a tradeoff. The newest modern LCD displays have such fast response time now that you actually get this judder in the picture because the picture updates so fast, so fast that it ends up almost being TOO fast to where it's not smooth. The picture can look juddery in these instances. This can be absolved using motion smoothing such as Black Frame Insertion & other features, but these usually add input lag. So yeah, things still are not perfect yet. My point though is that in some instances you might not want your display to update TOO fast as a tiny bit of ghosting can be better than a badly juddering image.

[@skins4thewin]

@@seanmcbay Thats why the ones that have low lag motion smoothing in game mode are great! However only ones I know to have that are Samsung displays & they suck now unless you're buying the most expensive ones...

[@cam3127]

Are you going to now look at the NSO for GBA to see how accurate it is? I heard it's one of the best GBA emulators right now.

[@WWammyy]

There's loads of videos about installing backlight mods for various handheld consoles and none of them touch on latency. I am interested in seeing how gameboy color screen mods compare to the original GBC. All in all its not only one of the best videos covering the issue but the only one 😋

[@Digitaldelboy]

Doesn't software emulation have options for run-ahead to bring the lag to 0.00 ms.

[@eathenalexander2836]

Wonder why wasn’t the both screens on the ds used for this video

[@RiotSRetro]

So how did you exactly go about this? . Curious to know the specifics of your testing methodologies.

[@SirSethery]

I definitely forgot to go into that for this video. I used the good old method of a slow motion camera recording me hitting the button as quickly as I can, then counting the number of frames between button press and action on Screen. Used the gun firing in Metroid 2 for GB and Metroid Fusion for GBA. I counted around 32 samples for each measurement. I still don’t like how much guesswork is involved in picking which frame is the first that the button is pushed, so I’m planning on using an LED hooked up to the button for my future tests, and I’ll definitely cover my methodology more in future vids. The time required is somewhat unavoidable, but I could streamline it a bit.

[@2ndplayers881]

We need a new video right now

[@smackaboo5066]

I need to know where you got that bob omb battlefield painting

[@SirSethery]

Got it on Etsy. www.etsy.com/listing/264512874 www.etsy.com/listing/398920881 I just got the canvas and requested the frame at 19.5”x19.5” without the glass. It’s not a perfect frame but it works. I kinda jankily wrapped the canvas paper around the cardboard back of the frame. Just buying the already framed version will probably look better, but mine works well enough without being super expensive.

[@smackaboo5066]

@@SirSethery ok! Thank you!

[@thepokerus4184]

You will be please to know that ghosting and frame drop issues were all fixed on revised V2 and newer models (V3, V4 & V5)

[@pcmcg]

ya got some more lag videos coming?

[@justinholmes5614]

I wonder how much lag the Analogue Pocket has ?

[@zandatsu07]

Thanks for this, i subscribe because i got ds lite 👍

[@Dr904]

I just did an Funnyplaying IPS swap on my 001 SP. And I'm very disappointed! Sure. The colors look great. But the constant stutter is a dealbreaker. And also, there's a smudge underneath the glass.

[@Vidalburgos]

I subbed

[@damieninnes4488]

Very interesting stuff man! Do you have an Analogue Pocket to compare with too?

[@SirSethery]

Thanks! I actually have one on backorder. I’m thinking of doing an FPGA system comparison at some time in the future, including the Pocket and MiSTer

[@damieninnes4488]

@@SirSethery that would be awesome, looking forward to it!

[@ShaolinTechnoMage]

@@SirSethery I would very much like to see that!

[@brett20000000009]

FYI the analogue pocket uses a portrait scanning screen 1440x1600 that's been physically rotated so it will have at least 16.7ms extra lag. A framebuffer is required because you have to rotate the image and that's impossible to do without buffering a whole frame first.

[@brett20000000009]

@@SirSethery MiSTer on a crt with the buffermode turned off and vsync mode 2 should be the lowest lag gba emulation, should be interesting.

[@nathanlee8248]

If the recording device (your iPhone) can only record video at 240fps, it means every frame interval is 1000/240 ms. How to get the specific difference like 33.5ms 34.8ms 34.7ms 34.3ms? 4.167ms is a big interval

[@SirSethery]

Those are the averages of around 32 measurements for each device. It’s not ideal, and there’s definitely more room for error than I’d like (with a gap of over 4ms, I probably need a lot more samples to get really accurate results). I’m looking at getting a 1000fps camera and figuring out a more consistent measuring method for any future videos (something involving an LED lighting up when the button is pushed, so there’s no guesswork in figuring out exactly which frame is the first “pushed” frame).

[@Bernardt-or-Connor]

You forgot that one adapter for the gamecube!

[@awogbob]

Knowing that the least lag free way to play GB and Gbc games is on the original screen is kinda wild. Original hardware really is king Front light gbc anyone?

[@7even871]

The rest of em been gone playboy

[@yeolemillinial8295]

i used to have the ambassador stuff but that 3ds got stolen and Nintendo wouldn't let me recover my digital stuff the bastards

[@mad7331]

Hey, continue with your awesome work! I‘m pretty sure that your channel will grow if you hang out!

[@mad7331]

Now you have the attention from the community…well deserved! I‘ll go on with promoting your videos.

[@hndfhngtool-assistedspeedr2128]

Man when I was a dumb teenager I never noticed the ghosting. But nowadays I just can't stand playing on GBA/DS because the ghosting pisses me off. I think I'm just gonna play on GBP hooked to a CRT.

[@BillionairesArentYourFriends]

I've never once had an issue with the DS. Minus the very original, I've owned them all multiple times over (long story short, got back into gaming twice). And I've never had any of my DS' have any ghosting. My Gameboy Color does, which is supposedly better with it. My Gameboy Advance is like a brick. That thing has been through everything imagine and doesn't have any ghosting....yet my original SP does. It's really strange.

[@BillionairesArentYourFriends]

Best way to play GBA/Gameboy/Color games anyway, imo. The original look can't be done with LCD.

[@iW0RM3R1]

I knew it! Installed IPS mod version 2.0 on my GBA and noticed lag in comparison to my AGS-101. What a disappointment. I thought it could be the ideal GBA! And literally noone from retro modding bloggers noticed any difference in their IPS kit reviews.

[@joshs2235]

Try the ITA kit, it uses a Dsi screen and very closely resembles the AGS-101 screen. Input lag seems equal as well.

[@iW0RM3R1]

​@@joshs2235 but DSi screen have higher piexl density and can't be used for integer scaling of the viedo out. Isn't it more convinient to just use AGS-101 screen? I think I read that AGS-101 to GBA conversion kits have some kind of flaw, but I can't remember what it particular.

[@joshs2235]

@@iW0RM3R1 I can't comment on video out as I have no knowledge of that. I use gameboy player with GBI and that works for my needs

[@JOSEGT50]

Hopefully u do psp n ps vita Psp 1000,2000,3000,street (Europe),& psp Go Ps vita 1000,2000, & pstv

[@gr0nis]

Got my first backlit gba sp because it was supposed to be the best gba screen. My AGS-101 has way more ghosting than yours. In your video, you can see 2 maybe 3 frames of ghosting. Mine has more like 5 frames. Moving sprites and backgrounds looks like dogshit tbh. Even though AGS-001 has way worse colors, it's a much better experience imo. I've tried to dial in the screen potentiometer but it does nothing to fix the ghosting. It only change the screen flickering. Don't understand why AGS-101 is so praised.

[@switchfoot19802000]

So its a problem because why? It was one of my favorite systems. With me being no longer able to enjoyit, because of scalpers and inflation. I wish Nintendo would go back, to being fun like the gba sp.

[@Castcoder]

That "Original Vision" comment got me laughing. That argument is always so dumb. Most "original visons" are from compromises due to tecnical limitations the programmer and artist had to overcome to fit it in the game. If given the hardware, they would have made something far more visually appealing.

[@SummonerArthur]

Not very different from mylifeingaming's results on GBA screens.

[@avangelion_]

this is just sad I'm stopping my self before wasting 12 mins watching the video. 0:04