Comparing the range of the new BetaFPV v1.1 Flat antenna ELRS rx with a T-antenna and Tower antenna

[@toys5355]

Thanks for taking the time to do this extensive test. What great information you provided 👍🏻

[@CurryKitten]

Glad it was helpful!

[@HarryPotter-kz6kl]

Watching you fly that quad around has made me rethink my situation. I was going to move stuff over to elrs and use my Zorro more, however the distances you flew there I would happily rip my XM+ setups without a care in the world.

[@CurryKitten]

Yep, at those sort of distances XM+ will work absolutely fine, and I've still a bunch of quads on XM+ that I don't feel the need to update. ELRS was mainly down to racers wanting the absolute fastest link they could have, with the distance it can go being a bonus. The difference for me is that any new stuff I got, I'd want on ELRS rather than the "old" FrSky stuff

[@LookingForEntertainment112]

The tiny ceramic and tower antennas are great for whoops and 2-3inch quads. If only HDZero could sort out their supply chain issues and bring out their goggles! A fully HD and ELRS range of whoops and microquads would be awesome.

[@ched999uk]

Great test, thanks so much for all your efforts. Good to know even the small antennas are not bad at all. Have a great weekend.

[@CurryKitten]

No worries - yes, the flat was much improved as well. I'd get a lot of confidence having that sort of thing on a whoop

[@dazultra2000]

Got my flat one replaced by betafpv after seeing your original video. Not fitted it yet but glad it's performing much better than before. I'm only gonna use it on a whoop anyway so 400m isn't really an issue :) thanks CK!

[@CurryKitten]

I think it's perfect for a whoop - easy to fit anywhere, and you'll be out of lipo before you are out of range :)

[@MouwDown]

Ah, the ole furybee. That is my very first introduction to fpv quads. I still have it. Thought about getting her back up and flying. If I remember right. Your also the first person I started following when I discovered fpv. I also think I asked you about this quad. I ended up buying it because you recommended it to me. Brings back memories.

[@CurryKitten]

It still flew ok (although I was taking it quite easy with all those wires slapping around), and it happily updated to the latest Betaflight, so there's life in the old girl yet!

[@MouwDown]

@@CurryKitten I'm kinda excited to get it back up in the air. I even have several spare arms. I was looking for some of your old videos back when you reviewed this guy. I can't seem to find them. Maybe you did some cleanup with old content? I'm pretty sure it was you that I asked about a first quad. Anyways, glad to see you getting her back up in the air.

[@MudflapNichols]

I had the tower on a 3" toothpick. It was mounted on the back of the camera mount and was completely unobstructed. I could easily outfly the range of the 200mw VTX. At some point, I crashed and knocked the little tower off, but I was still able to get about 100 meters of range. I don't usually fly the toothpick further than that, so I didn't change it for a while. I honestly think it's pretty amazing to get 100 meters of range with no antenna at all. I changed it to a full size T, and within the range of the VTX it never even gets close to losing signal, but I was really impressed with the performance of the tower.

[@MCsCreations]

Fantastic flying and testing, Wayne! Thanks! 😃 I guess it's better to leave those antennas for whoops! Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊 BTW, I hope you're feeling better!

[@CurryKitten]

I think the ceramic antennas are for whoops too - unless you really have a need to shrink something down on a larger quad. Cheers MC, feeling much better now

[@lililililililili8667]

This makes me feel better about my happymodel spi wire antennas performance

[@diggsit69]

Hi, I like the ELRS duel receiver / diversity antennas. And For my long range Quads that’s all I Use!

[@CurryKitten]

I've never tried the diversity RX (yet) but I haven't really got close to running out of range on ELRS yet either :)

[@diggsit69]

@@CurryKitten It help’s with Range, but what it does that is better then the Single receivers is when the Quad is turning or Facing you it keeps your RSSI locked in without worrying about your Quads position, and that’s a big plus let alone constantly worrying about a Possible Failsafe while Flying!

[@ndcapper]

Great video. Thanks for the thorough testing

[@CurryKitten]

Thank you!

[@audiogek]

As expected. Much appreciated!

[@stelic9515]

Thanks alot. This is valuable information

[@minkorrh]

This looks like a worthwhile video to watch with real-world examples....like most of this channel content. ;) I've recently (04/23) noticed 915mhz receivers being sold, which is a breath of fresh air as I was being a cheapskate and modded my R9 Tx for ELRS. I really didn't want to buy an 2.4ghz Tx. Because I'm a working stiff and for financial reasons I told myself 2 years ago I was only going to build one quad per year, I'm into my 3rd already this year. FML. I'm surprised I can afford beer. "Moved on to the next stage which is becoming burgers" I died laughing. make me into burgers. LMFAO I love burgers. Cows hate me.

[@CurryKitten]

It's nice you are finding the 915mhz ELRS rx's. We started out with a decent mix of 868/915 and 2.4 but 2.4 has taken over everything it seems. 1 quad a year is hard to stick to... perhaps 1 of each size?

[@wingsounds13]

Thanks for this. Results were mostly as I expected. Odd though that putting the receiver out on the arm was better AND worse. :o At these frequencies all that structure does not only block but also reflect. Perhaps that location out on the arm was in a null zone due to reflections from other parts of the quad? As you said, move the receiver around a bit and test for results.

[@CurryKitten]

Yes - the results were not as I'd imagined at all. It just goes to show that a bit of experimentation is really worth it. I think it's really easy to just think "my quad seems ok" and then you never mess with it, but a bit of experimental tuning here and there or moving stuff about could make things better (or worse, but then you'd just change it back)

[@jamesmason7124]

Have you tried the zip tie and heat shrink way of mounting your antenna

[@nikotttin]

Thank you great test...

[@Kopterheld]

right, the receiver with the external antenna is the best. I like the BetaFPV ELRS nano receiver with the external white antenna. The board have better telemetrie transmitter (20dBm=100mW) as the receiver from Happymodel with external antenna (17mW).

[@colibrifpv]

"I do stupid for breakfast" ha ha ha, nicely done, it's a ton of effort to do a such a scientific test but I certainly appreciate it, just the info I was looking for!

[@CurryKitten]

Thanks - I don't think I can quite call it scientific though. More anecdotal based on 1 test :)

[@glytch5]

yep stage one failsafe. This video is awesome. I love testing ELRS at 500hrz, what is the sensitivity 102 dbm? I can never remember. So your scraping right up against it at high -90s. I think ELRS is making receiver antennas obsolete... can't stand 8/900 mhz antennas! Betafpv does do a decent job on those tiny receivers.

[@ReggieRailSystems]

Wow, I like your test it was well thought out. Stupid is certainly good.😊

[@CurryKitten]

Glad you liked it

[@EnglishTurbines]

An interesting video m8...I flew my old Martian 3 on an XM no such issues of course. These tiny RX's with compact antennas are intended for Whoops tho ain't they? I'm now using my new Cobra Goggles and really impressed with them. Such great value too with all the features...🤔😳😀🇬🇧

[@bengeijtenbeek9394]

Great test thank you Curry....Is it possibble to put a big T antenne on a 868 micro betafpv i have one with a small Til will put it on a wing. did you tryed that?

[@CurryKitten]

If I understand correctly you bought an 868 rx and noticed it came with a quite small T antenna. BetaFPV call these a "mid range antenna" in reality they are completely the wrong length to work with 868. So yes, BetaFPV actually sell full sized ones (but why they didn't include these with the rx in the first place!!) or 868 is 868, so a crossfire antenna, an r9 antenna will all be correct (but check the UFL fitting first)

[@gabrielnunes159]

I have an ELRS Lite (2.4GHz) Wich has ceramic antenna and a jumper T-Lite with 100mw power and 50Hz frequency. I am reaching maximum 100 METERS before I lost signal. I am using in an open field with some trees, not more than 2 imas obstacles sometimes. Is something wrong? I tried a lot of things, saw a lot of videos about range but I can't get any better! Is this the real maximum for my config? Please help! I saw the conector, the wires, everything is fine! Thanks in advance!!

[@CurryKitten]

It'll go further - or should do. So an important thing to think about is how the signal might be blocked with your quad frame or the battery. Experiment moving the RX around the frame and see if you can find a position that works better

[@TurtleModeFPV]

I'm curious if the orientation of the transmitter antenna has any impact... (horizontal or vertical alignment of controller antenna)... When you think of the ceramic tower and the way the antenna wraps around it, It would seem much more of the element is relatively horizontal in relationships to the receiver chip...

[@CurryKitten]

Yes and no. For a fuller and more useful test, it would be good to test both ceramic antennas in both antenna orientations. My general point of view here was - if you want more range, then you'd get the one with the proper t-antenna, the point of testing the ceramics was to compare against each other and seeing whether the range was good enough. I think I read that someone looked at the datasheet for that flat antenna and it should be mounted vertically (kind of defeating the object of keeping it so small)

[@REDROBRCFPV]

Careful with that tall grass it’s a perfect habitat for tics.

[@CurryKitten]

There was all manor of things creeping and crawling on me in that field. Where I go normally in the woods seems to be very tic heavy. So far only the dog seems to pick them up - but we do keep a eye out for any that have attached to us

[@chrisbee5481]

Hey good test and comparison. Speaking of elrs: how do you update the meteor85 spi elrs to v2.xx?

[@CurryKitten]

The way to update an SPI ELRS FC is to update the BetaFlight version. The firmware is within Betaflight, so get the latest 4.3 RC release and that'll bring you up to 2.x

[@bryanfpv]

We really need to start making reinforced plastic frames or similar. Carbon fiber is cool but is troublesome for electronics.

[@CurryKitten]

Weight and strength will always make carbon fibre a great choice - and on a larger quad the T antenna will always mount ok. I think in the sub 85mm frame you can get away with pretty thing an flexible plastic

[@bryanfpv]

@@CurryKitten I wonder how the ragg-e frame that is made in the UK would help those elrs receivers. Weight is a factor, but durability doesnt bother me anymore... i take less risks then before.

[@volkergoe]

Thanks for the solid comparison! ... and for "Brits are having stupid for breakfast" of course 😂!

[@KIKI55cro]

Hello CK, I suppose you can do those test flights also with the XM+ ?

[@CurryKitten]

In terms of the range you mean? Yep, I flew with XM+\s for years, and aside from the odd one going a bit wonky, you generally get decent range out of them. Easily over 1km at least.

[@KIKI55cro]

@@CurryKitten Sad too see some of the ELRS recivers getting low LQ at those pretty line of sight flights, without buildings or trees in the way of signal...do you think happymodel new module will work on taranis Qx7 ?

[@CurryKitten]

@@KIKI55cro The RX's with no real antenna don't do so well when you fly them a long way off, but that's not really what they are for. They are more for doing micro builds that you wouldn't fly far. I'd also whacked the speed up to 500Hz on these, so you'd get further by running at a lower transmit rate. If the HappyModel module is JR fitting and you've got OpenTX or EdgeTX updated, then it'll work. You may need to do a hardware mod to get the rate data rate, but that's a larget subject.

[@anthonymeade4617]

I wonder would the packet rate effect range much. Like running 150hz or 250hz rather than 500hz.

[@CurryKitten]

It certainly effects the range on the basis that at a higher rate you'd likely suffer a higher loss of packets. Quite how much it affects it by - i.e when do you failsafe on 500Hz vs 150Hz, I don't know the answer. It might be quite good fun to check it out if I can find the right area to do so... I'd be using something like 10mw on the radio to try and force a failsafe early I would guess.

[@timon72489]

A lower packet rate will increase the power output per packet. Theoretically, 250hz will have 2 times more power than 500hz so about √2 times more range.

[@HaveFaithInGod]

A final question if you will. I have need to mount a ELRS rx into a whoop with limited space. The location is above the battery and under the stacks inside the canopy I want external antenna but not a "T" . Can I replace the "T" antenna on an rx with a typical straight one? If so, how long should the active part be? Thanks and much appreciation.

[@CurryKitten]

That's a great question. In theory, I don't see why not. It's 2.4Ghz at the end of the day, and so that means you should just need an active element of 31.23mm in length. But that's just my thoughts - the best thing to do is throw this question into the ELRS discord for a more authoritative answer.

[@tm_fpv]

I HAVE A QUESTION TO YOUUU, how can I get that video signal so clear? mines is so dirty, I have changed googles antenas as drone omni as well but stills so noisy, HEEELP

[@CurryKitten]

If you have reasonable antennas on your quad and goggles, then you need to consider if your power is clean. Does you VTX and camera do a good job of filtering the power input on their own? Do you have clean wiring where you are not crossing power and video wires all over the place. My go to brand for VTX's is RushFPV which tend to filter their own power very well and so the picture is often very clean

[@tm_fpv]

@@CurryKitten I have a foxxer lollipop 4 on the quad and googles , diversity with omni and patch antena, my VTX: success 5.8GHZ 25-800Mw. I think im gonna re arm all my quad and take care of a nice soldering job and wiring very well. I miss my video looks that clean like your's, great videos, thanks for the response

[@Andy-to7xu]

Do you know if TPU would cause interference like carbon does? wondering if creating a mount be possible instead of just taping to the arm.

[@CurryKitten]

TPU is fairly "transparent" as far as RF signals go, so using it to lift your rx into a better position will have an improvement

[@dilbertmcfly5986]

1. ExpressLRS is not magic. Too many people saw guys flying wing 15km+, and expected same with quad and ceramic antenna. LOLZ. 2. 2.4Ghz band is crowded with WIFI/ DJI noise etc, + you got those big juicy trees. 3. I really wish they made mode diversity receivers. 4. The Moxon 2.4 antenna have relatively poor VSWR. Likewise 915Mhz. 5. Im running BetaFPV 915Mhz ELRS btw.

[@GoatZilla]

I'm surprised BetaFPV even admitted the mistake in the first place.

[@CurryKitten]

They had some particularly bad feedback from the ELRS devs about this one. Hopefully they'll adopt the idea of working with the devs and sorting out these problems prior to public release in the future.

[@sunsetpark_fpv]

That quad has a lot of Jello brother.....

[@johnchandler4565]

Placing the flat antenna so close to an electrically conductive material (carbon fibre arm) probably significantly detuned the antenna and as a consequence the receiver performance was degraded - just my guess anyway.

[@CurryKitten]

Perhaps so - although I think you'd likely be that close to carbon in that sort of quad. Obviously in a tiny plastic based whoop you'd be better off all round

[@rolisaenz]

Wayne if you lower the 500Hz rate you get a bigger range, anyway at this size of quad with the not so powerfull VTX you dont need that much range unlike a 7" LR quad with a 1W or 2W VTX

[@CurryKitten]

Yep - I normally fly on 150hz with quads, the 500Hz was used to give a worst case scenario. Sort of "if I can't get this far, then you can get more by twiddling some settings" I was just using 100mw of power as well.

[@cdavidnk]

probably a stupid question, but is it possible to connect multiple receivers, all in parallel, simultaneously to the FC? and control it with multiple TXs

[@CurryKitten]

No - the problem here is with multiple signals coming in, you'd either get the signal multiplied, or depending on the timing it could be overlaying bits and pieces. What you'd need is something before it got to the FC to decide with receiver it was going to switch to. Multiple RX's on some older autopilots wa a thing, but they had multiple connections and would switch depending on the RSSI to get the stronger signal.

[@timlong7289]

Are you getting WiFi interference from the houses maybe?

[@nerdCopter]

+1👍 💪

[@HaveFaithInGod]

At 21:37 you said, "The improved tower antennas did work much better."..... Did you mean to say the improved flat antenna???

[@CurryKitten]

Yes, sorry - if I spot myself getting my words muddled I'll put a quick title correction up. I don't notice them all though

[@junkstamix3052]

Did anyone else see that UFO at time stamp 10.09 flying from right to left?

[@CurryKitten]

I went back to have a look at the original footage so I could go frame by frame and look properly. Sadly, the DVR is mostly a smear, but I think it's either a seagul, of a red kite. I often see kites (or possibly buzzards) in the area and they sometimes buzz me to let me know it's their airspace. They often hang around just out of main view though

[@OlivierRefalo]

Glad you didn't talk about the cows in the conclusion. Results quite expected. Would have been great to get distance estimates in a unit rather this endless talk.

[@bambitakesflight7345]

You sound exactly like DJAUDIT! 🫢

[@CapnBry]

Stupid like a fox! After our simultaneous testing across different receivers I came to pretty much the same conclusion. The SMD antennas are ok but pretty much always use a T antenna unless the size is a problem. The v1.1 flat antenna is drastically improved (the original was broken) but it is still a little worse than the tower, which is significantly worse than a dipole. Even an onboard amplifier on the RX doesn't bring it close to the dipole. Here's a graph you might find interesting of 6x receivers tested at the exact same time: heatermeter.com/elrs/elrs-run17-flat-v-tower.png