Comparison of 2LS to PAL (Pinel's Layout system)

This is a comparison video of 2LS to Mo & Mikey Pinel's Layout system.
In this video, I try to be as objective as I can between the 2 systems to see if there is a difference and if so how much.
Findings: These systems are very similar. Mo and Mikey put out ground level design for 2LS with what they came up with. Storm's 2LS finished their research by finding out more layouts for those that are speed dominant 2 handers/no-thumb bowlers.

[@BowlingScience]

The research for PAL was completed, after Mo’s passing by me (Mikey), but due to the loss of Mo and the need for more research wasn’t released till about a month after this video. We really appreciate you featuring our system and discussing it. I am curious as to your thoughts now that our system is fully published. Quality video btw! Subscribed :)

[@midlanebowling3859]

I appreciate the sub. I wasn't trying to disrespect you or your father's hard work on coming up with the PAL System. I created the video because I am sure there were some people out there that were curious if there was a difference between the 2. These are just preliminary findings and my opinions since no one else has compared the 2 systems side by side yet (at least publicly). I do find the PAL System easiest to use when it comes to marking the layouts, just need to do some more testing of layouts.

[@tygardner5652]

Center of ring finger will be easy to find from a technicians standpoint. Also it may have been easier to layout both systems with a prosect.

[@midlanebowling3859]

Understandable to use the tools one is most comfortable with and has access too.

[@nothumbbowler1802]

Interesting. Actually saw that I was doing something wrong. With 1/4 inch difference, you'd probably need specto and extremely consistent release to tell a difference.

[@midlanebowling3859]

Can use the PAL System with the 2LS layouts or vise versa. I'd suggest using the system you understand best and is easiest to replicate.

[@officialT_T]

How did you get the 5 inch arc length from pap to cog line on mo's system?

[@midlanebowling3859]

Short answer: the line from the 1" offset, is an orientation line. This means that the fingers will be drilled on that line, in order to get the desired PAP of the layout. In my example, it was 5" to cog, thus I drew a 5 inch line from the PAP to know the orientation of the Cog.

[@noweanji]

hello, I have balls that I used one-handed before. Now I've decided to take two hands. I filled it and want to drill again. should i use the old angles? I write the balls and old measurements below. can you suggest me? 900 global the break (40*3 3/4*25) morich seek&destroy (70*3 3/8*40) brunswick diamond back (55*4 1/4*40) Hammer Razyr (60*4 3/4*45)

[@midlanebowling3859]

I appreciate you asking the question. I would like to clarify, when you say one-handed, do you mean with a thumb?

[@noweanji]

@@midlanebowling3859 yes I meant the one with the thumb inside.

[@noweanji]

@@midlanebowling3859 While one hand was pap 5 1/2 left 1 up, I measured two hands pap 5 15/16 left 1 3/16 down with the ball I pierced yesterday.. whoever I ask, he tells me to follow you. The people I asked were also two-handed players. One person didn't say it would be better if you pierced these balls at these angles. i have an old drill and i will drill the balls there is no proshop where i am. Please I would be glad if you can help.

[@midlanebowling3859]

Thank you for getting back. Based on. The information you have provided, you will probably like the layouts found on the Bowling Science KZbin page , under the Community tab (kzbin.infocommunity), he has several different layouts that will benefit a 2 hander. The creator of that channel has a down PAP as well, so his layouts should do well for you. Hope this helps.

[@Two-Handed-Bandit]

How is it basically the same when the pal says to drill holes 3.5 deep and 2ls says don’t drill deeper then 2.75? Isn’t removing more mass in the pal system changing the dif of the ball? Shouldn’t that may these balls motion at least somewhat different?

[@midlanebowling3859]

Bowling science has updated the Pin Above Layout (PAL) system since I created the video. As always take anything I say with a grain of salt and do your research To answer your question to the best of my ability: yes the diff will change, but it won't be a significant enough difference because it is only 2 finger holes, unless a person has massive hands.

[@justmakingthistoreply5085]

Every time I ask for the 2LS system my PSO says he needs my Speed, my axis tilt, my axis rotation, and my rev rate. I wanna get all that stuff but I don’t want to buy a Pro Sect which is crazy over priced

[@midlanebowling3859]

Your PSO should be able to schedule sometime with you to get this information. If they won't make time, check another PSO in the area.

[@justmakingthistoreply5085]

@@midlanebowling3859 I’m gonna get it myself. I have a wax pencil and a slow motion camera. I’ll just take the ball to him after I mark the first ring of oil. The rest should be easy

[@skybuford]

How would these layouts work for a new bowler that doesn’t know their pap or psa?

[@midlanebowling3859]

For a new 2 hander / 1 hander that doesn't use a thumb, I would go with the 4 x 5 x 2 layout. This will be the most versatile for all bowlers that don't use their thumb.

[@steve5354]

These layouts are all based off the bowlers pap. So if he doesn't know his pap then it won't work. That is the main number that the entire layout is based off of. 4x5x2 layout that he suggested still wouldn't work unless u know the pap.

[@midlanebowling3859]

You are 99.9% correct. The area that I must disagree with you on is that the PSO has to make some general assumptions and try to give a bowler the best option for a usable reaction. In my opinion, with a grain of salt, going with a 4x5x2, no matter where the PAP ends up, should give CB a usable ball reaction. The numerical values may change once a PAP has been found.

[@skybuford]

@@midlanebowling3859 i thought about going with the 2ls benchmark layout (5x4x3 1/2). Would this be a good route to go or should I continue to do more research?

[@steve5354]

@@midlanebowling3859 yes correct but that "4" is still the pin to PAP distance which means u need a pap. In a normal situation when u don't know a bowlers pap but still want to have a general layout using either methods u went over, the PSO makes up a pap of 5" over and 1/2" up. Which is just a general pap to use when you don't know the person pap. But still PSO is still using some sort of PAP to layout those numbers correctly. Either way great job on the video and look forward to more

[@robintompkins8745]

You missed mentioning the finger depth that makes a huge difference in ball reaction in 2LS system

[@midlanebowling3859]

Thank you for the comment. The video was not about finger depth just a comparison of 2 systems that are out there to see how similar or different they are from each other. I have talked about finger depth in other videos.

[@kevinkotula569]

You made a mistake on the 2ls lay out!!

[@midlanebowling3859]

What was the mistake and I will correct it.

[@1getter]

You improperly laid out the midline. The orientation is off. Should be from the tangent from the PAP to COG.