Comparison of Double Squares - Starrett ($80) vs iGaging ($32)

[@davidshearer567]

"I'm keeping the Starrett" -- that's all I needed to hear! You have a great sense of humor sir!

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Glad you liked it!

[@CraigularjJoeWoodworks]

In Canada Starrett squares are triple the price (200 for 6 inch, and 255 for 12 inch). Americans have it so good.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Ouch!

[@CraigularjJoeWoodworks]

@@SmallWorkshopGuy yes sir, ouch indeed haha

[@gregghernandez2714]

By the way, another alternative is to go with a blemished model. That is a square that may have a small scratch or a gouge on the surface of the ruler or the body, but in no way affects the performance of the square. I bought 2 PEC squares from a company called Taylor Toolworks (and no I do not work for them). The PEC squares are guaranteed to be square within 0.004 (4 thousandth of an inch) over the length of the blade. I bought two and did the test with a very fine pencil where you turn the square over, and there was absolutely no deviation in the blades at all. One blemish was just that a small scratch on the body, the other had a small scratch on the ruler. Not only that, since I spent over 50 bucks, they gave me a free digital angle finder. Not a bad deal.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Good to know that option available

[@thomaslawry5238]

You comments about the costs are valid. The shop I was working in, bought Empire brand squares..... Ok at first, but after three months of constant use, sliding the rule in and out of the alloy body. They were no longer "square"!

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Yep, initial low price on anything is always seductive.

[@LordPadriac]

20 seconds in and pause. The Starrett. Always buy the Starrett. Assuming you have the money, buy the Starrett. I just replaced my iGauging 6" combination square with a Starrett hardened steel one at $145.00 (taxes and shipping included in that) and could not be happier and wish I pulled the trigger sooner. Next up is the double square and a 12" hardened steel combination square.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

I sort of agree

[@gregghernandez2714]

Just so you know, you are not alone in your opinion of the Igaging tools. Stumpy Nubs also did a comparison review of these tools and found the Igaging tools to be every bit as accurate as the Starret brand. I bought their set of Combination squares and they have become essential tools in my workshop.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Thanks for the info!

[@geoweb8246]

Small Workshop Guy, I agree with your assessment. The iGaging's squareness tolerance at 6" is 0.0048". I find this to be plenty accurate for my woodworking. The PEC blemished 6" double square is a nice value with a tolerance of 0.0015".

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Wow, finally - somebody in this world agrees with me on something. Yea! Thanks!

[@jaken82]

Glad to see your channel growing. Just starting woodworking at the ripe old age 38. Great video.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

So what you are really saying is I can double your age and then add 3 to get to mey age.... does that make me feel old or what!

[@simonkangiser6183]

You missed one of the most important tests and that’s repeatable squareness. Iguaging may be square enough at the 2” mark but what about at the 6? Starrett is also known for making tools that can stand repeated use and maintain accuracy. Another big factor iwhich you demonstrated was owner confidence and satisfaction., my guess as to why you got rid of the Chinese brand. Try PEC tools on eBay. They sell blems

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Well, it certainly appears their marketing works and their tools stand the test of time. You have made me feel better about buying the combination square after releasing this video.

[@MF175mp]

They are most certainly both much more accurate than any woodworker will ever need. Some even use them in lower precision metalwork

[@keirfarnum6811]

The Starrett squares are supposedly ground to within 1/10,000th of an inch on the square body. For woodworkers, the iGauging are probably fine; but for metal machining with extremely close tolerances, the Starrett will give some piece of mind that it’s accurate. It mostly depends on what one is doing.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

I appreciate the comment - thanks!

[@ducatista1098s]

Look at the shorn edges of the blade compared around 6:50. the starrett is clearly better machined, which would make it absolutely superior when using the square as a depth gauge.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Yep, agree upon closer inspection.

[@johncooper4637]

With Starrett you get attention to detail. For instance, look at the marks on the rule - they are much sharper and deeper than the i-gaging one. I watched a video of Starrett making a micrometer where they lapped it in by hand until it was perfectly smooth. That costs money.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

I agree now after using both brands freqently

[@davidburdick2160]

I personally use starrett the only reason is the tools where passed down to me from my Great Uncle so when I use them a part of him gos into every job.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Good reason

[@AutotechWoodworking]

I left Facebook many years ago because of the drama within the different groups of friends I had, (friends from school long ago, work friends, etc), but your group has me rethinking that I may have to rejoin so I can join your group, whether I win anything or not. I'm sure there are those that will disagree with your thoughts on the double squares for one reason or another, but that's why we have choices; so we can make up our own minds.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Yep, there are some things where I want the best available, but when it comes to double squares, pretty good is good enough!

[@davesatosky5840]

just make one with a woodworking name, i had similar experience, but then i came back and got hooked on the woodworking groups.. woodtech1 lol

[@AutotechWoodworking]

Either that or using my first and middle names only. That way I can pick and choose who I look for from my past. I'm disabled and no longer working, so ex-coworkers wouldn't know it's me.

[@AutotechWoodworking]

I agree totally.

[@melgross]

I have Starrett, B&S, Mititoyo and some other really expensive tools. I also have some medium price tools from Fowler, as well as from unknown Chinese manufacturers. I also recently bought the iGage dual square set. I’ve been doing this since the mid 1960’s and have used many different measuring tools. The truth? I’ve found that under small shop use, the cheapest tools are just about as good as the most expensive tools. Are there differences? Yes, sometimes, and the most expensive tools are not always the winners. It’s nonsense to say that the expensive tools are always better. But the reality is that all of these companies use the same automatic CNC machinery to make their tools. Tolerances aren’t difficult to meet with this equipment. The main difference can be with finish, and that has improved for the cheaper tools much more than for the most expensive tools, because the most expensive tools, usually, but not always, are already at a very high level, and have nowhere to go from there. High quality steel and iron castings have apparently also leveled out. The main differences these days in price seem more due to the cost of production than tool quality. And we see companies, including Starrett, producing more and more of their tools in-China! What I’ve seen in factories producing tools is that American makers, for example, still rely too much on hand production, whereas overseas in Asia, automated machinery is more likely to be used. That machinery is more consistent, as Starrett has told me, a few years ago, that they have to discard a fair percentage of tools and parts because they do t meet the standards. That’s tough when you make a square, measure it, and can’t reheat it to fix the inaccuracy. But that’s a problem hand production has.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Hey, I really appreciate your expertise and your taking the time to comment extensively. I, for one, learned a few things from you.

[@melgross]

Small Workshop Guy thanks.

[@ckm-mkc]

OTOH, I have been buying better tools because the cheap ones are inconsistent and repeatability is important. This is particularly true if you are working with metal rather than wood. I try to buy good used versions. There is also something about buying tools that are not made in China.

[@gglove1949]

I just purchased the Iguaging set of combination squares at a Rockler store while I was visiting family on a trip. Funny thing is none of the salespeople in the store owned either brand. They were admittedly, weekend carpenters that mostly did cutting boards and small projects and they got most of their stuff from the big box stores and yard sales. I broke my combo square last Friday 3 hours after my 2nd COVID shot and I wasn't feeling so frisky. It was junk and I decided if I survived I would treat myself. 😁 Maybe something will be square in my future.🤣

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Great share - thanks

[@backpacker3421]

I have multiple squares from Starrett. All of them are PERFECTLY square, and the protractor square is dead on accurate. My buddy has the i-Gaging set you are showing here. On his set, the 4" is perfectly square but the 6" is a full degree off square. So if you need accuracy, be prepared to throw away one of the i-Gaging squares from that set. But that still makes it less than half the price. Though the Starrett is easier to read and the action on the locking mechanism is smoother. Personally, I think the build quality on the Starrett makes it a lifetime tool, while the i-Gaging brand tools that I've handled feel as if they'll take years of use, but probably not decades of abuse. I guess it all depends on what your needs are.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Hey, thanks for taking the time to share your experience with others (all six of my subscribers). At my ancient age, worrying about getting decades of use out of a tool no longer seems to be important. Heck, I don't even buy green bananas anymore, if you know what I mean.

[@agentchodybanks9120]

combination squares are very easy to adjust, no need to throw it away

[@cubul32]

"For my 15 subscribers" ... cracked me up good

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Yep, funny because 2 years later and I am up to 18 subscribers. LOL!

[@richarddunn504]

15 subscribers 😂😂👍, just found you and enjoying your videos , thank you.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Glad you like them!

[@David.M.]

I bought a pair of iGage combination squares and have been impressed. I discovered my old combo square that I probably bought from a hardware store decades ago, was not quite square anymore. Like you I am only a hobbyist, I am not building precisely engineered projects. You are right about the 1/64 inch marks. Very small and hard to read. Thanks for the review

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Yeh, I could barely read your comment! LOL!

[@ptabz3112]

Igaging tools are ok. I bought a couple of their double squares. The first one was square enough between the main edge of the body and the blade, but the blade didn't sit square in the body. The slot was too wide for the blade so when you tightened it, the blade would sit in the slot at a slight diagonal. Still square where it counts but was annoying to look at. I bought a PEC brand double square. It was perfect. One time I dropped it, the screw that holds the blade to the body broke. I took the screw from the igaging and used it on my PEC square. A few years later I dropped it again. I bought another igaging double square just to get the screw. PEC is the best budget alternative to starrett. Even their blems are functionally perfect.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Thanks for contributing your experience!

[@JoshTheElectric]

Awesome video. Thank you as a new young woodworker.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Well as a new old woodworker just a few years ago, I found that the University of KZbin has lessons on just about every tool and technique you could want to learn about. Stumpy Nubs and Woodworking for Mere Mortals and The Wood Whisperer have humongous inventories of videos on every basic topic. Enjoy the hobby!

[@runenoel]

You can tell from the video that the igaging ruler has a non-90 angle on the end of the ruler, when comparing the imperial side against the metric sides.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Hmmm..... I will take a look

[@VaracolacidVesci]

You eyes are tricking you. Igagin even when being a chinese brand. It does very high quality tools and have an excelent AMQC.

[@20thcentlimited]

How can you compare "squares" and never check to see if they are in fact square?

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Apparently that is what I did in the video

[@nwrasch]

Great video; thank you for taking the time to make and share this. :)

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Think nothing of it. Just needed a way to tell the wife I just had to have a Starrett so I could do a comparison. What tangled webs we weave.....

[@felixf5211]

I work with metal and have a number of Starrett tools. For woodworking, can't see how it make a whole lot of difference. I mean 1/64 is a bit over 15 thou. Precision is relative.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Everything is relative and thanks for commenting

[@gregghernandez2714]

Nice video, nice review. Man, I just love your table. It is nicer than most people's dining room table! That thing is such a beauty I wouldn't even want to work on it for fear of scratching it or creating a gouge in it. Keep the videos coming, and thanks again.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Yes, I do love my workbench - best thing I have created so far. Way a labor of love, for sure.

[@xinixxagnix201]

Nothing beat a Starret, use one for 18 years now still the same every day.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

I appreciate the comment, but probably not as much as the Starrett company does1

[@Phantom-pg3tv]

Hey, enjoyed your videos, keep it coming. I’m a new wood worker and i just started a small shop. You’re also funny to watch🥰

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Thanks, will do!

[@Mrjrich37055]

I'm enjoying your videos. Although I love in Florida and was raised in Tennessee I know a jayhawk fan when I see one...I actually went to high school in Lawrence

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Wait, what!? I grew up in Lawrence and graduated from Lawrence High School (back in ancient time - Class of 1960. Heck, I even taught math at Lawrence High for one year '68 - '69. You are probably way too young to have been one of my students.

[@Mrjrich37055]

@@SmallWorkshopGuy yes sir, I was in high school there in about 86 or 87 ... I haven't been back in years although my neice does with I'm the area at times. She lives over I'm Topeka...

[@kevenmelara227]

“for my 15 subscribers” haha that got me .. immediate like

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Glad I gave you a laugh!

[@jefftilt]

Why did you not check and see if the two squares were square?

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Guess I am a trusting guy

[@anteck7goat]

Thanks for this review

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Very welcome

[@katekeough9819]

16 now thanks for the video 🇨🇦

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

You are welcome for the video, but I am not sure what 16 now means unless that is your age.

[@frankb5728]

Good enough for whatever use I'll get out of them.. I'm not working at NASA, I don't need sub 10000th accuracy. You can certainly go too cheap and get wobbly tin tools but if you stick to the middle of the road brands I don't think that as a small workshop hobbyist you can find anything to complain about.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Agree - more accurate than my skill level

[@esixx17]

I had to start the video over. I missed you say Hola woodworkers...

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

What, did I leave tha out?

[@christopherwaterman4925]

Rock Chalk! Beautiful bench. I have had mixed results with iGaging. I have a pair of digital calipers that are excellent. So I picked up the digital marking gage, sturdy materials but poor build quality.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Rock Chalk Jayhawk - some of the best years of my life spent on that beautiful campus!

[@doclees11]

I love a deal but I love quality tools better. I also do everything I can to support US workers. If I have a problem with a product I want to be able to contact someone that understands English( American english). I've had lots of problems with Chinese quality control and a lot with customer service. I'll pay the extra to support my neighbor even if the quality is identical. When I see how much more care was taken in making the Starrett vs the chinese stuff I know they will take my business personally. I was in need of a drill press. Brought home bench top a Harbor Freight and brought it right back. They should be embarrassed to sell that junk. bought a Porter Cable at 2x the price. Still junk. Right back it went. Waiting on delivery of a 16 in Nova Viking. Over 10x the price but at least it won't be crap. Still not US made but at least most of my money is only going to the Kiwis and not the Chinese.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Now you, sir, are a man who has learned to appreciate quality and "Made in the USA" - bravo!

[@Forrest-Jackson]

"I get a certain amount of psychological value" :-D

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Unfortunately, my bank account gets no psychological value at all from my compulsive spending.

[@Forrest-Jackson]

@@SmallWorkshopGuy Nor mine... glad you kept it!

[@fngrusty42]

I've been working since 1970 the prices of squares has gone thru the ceiling these last 15 years . I tend to go looking for off name brands most I've found are square some not but most are . Not sure the reason for this but dang hate to see it.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

It would be interesting to see the manufacturing process of making sure they are square.

[@ja-no6fx]

The 15 subscriber comment killed me lmao 😂

[@spkendrick]

I laughed all through this video. Thumbs up

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

I did not remember putting anything funny in there so you just forced me to rewatch my own video which is pure torture - guess I did manage to sneak in a couple of little funny comments. Thanks for laughing.

[@cjsawinski]

Knife test to check them all for square out of the box??? I have an iGaging 12” combo that was at least 1/16 out of square over the full 12 inches... a quick fix if you no how to but it’s annoying that you should have to worry about that at all from the factory... now if it was a starrett that was out like that I would be livid lol

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Good to know - wow, that is really off - 1/16 over 12 inches.

[@shofarsogood7504]

How would you fix it?

[@donnajackson7712]

Comparison begins around 4 minutes in.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Yea, my bad!

[@SavedChampion]

Thank you.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Glad you liked the comparison

[@royceleanzer]

What did the ancient Egyptians use ... Yeah !!

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

You lost me.... but I am sure many others caught your drift!

[@davesatosky5840]

i found the facebook group, its about time! lol ... how long have you had these squares in your shop? curious if the igaging is rusting while the starret still looks brand new.. have read people disliking the steel in some of the igaging and have read just as many reviews of people who love it..

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

I have not had them long enough (they are brand new) and I am giving them away at the end of September to a randomly selected member of the Facebook Group: Small Workshop Woodworking Community, which I saw you joined and uploaded your shop pictures - thanks!

[@davesatosky5840]

@@SmallWorkshopGuy You have become one of my favorite youtubers, only complaint is that you did not make the group on facebook sooner! lol

[@jaywuchner9342]

Check out Taylor tools, he has 1st and blemished measuring tools from PEC. Great American quality at a very reasonable price.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

I love Taylor Tools - I actually have an affiliate relationship with them, but I don't promote them much - just laziness on my part. The sell the best woodworking 2-sided tape out there.

[@mikey_r]

Respectfully, I can see even in the video that the iGaging is not uniformly straight. Keep the Starrett for sure.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Oh, I did and your eyes must be better than mine, but then again, pretty much everybody's eyes are better than mine these days.

[@VaracolacidVesci]

i dont know how are you able to see that. if the camera at close has this kind of fish eye effect ...

[@wilhelmtaylor9863]

4:34; check out the 6" mark on that gage. Not much precision there.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

I checked out the video and the actual gage and not sure what you are seeing, but I am using Starrett anyway. Thanks for commenting.

[@wilhelmtaylor9863]

@@SmallWorkshopGuy → At the time point I mentioned the 6" mark (not on the Starrett) is offset from the end of the ruler. In fact, it looks wedge shaped - on the mark at top, off at the bottom. I'm surprised nobody else mentioned this, or am I seeing things?

[@ryanellis7520]

But how square are they? That's the question. $32 for me may as well be $85. I just want true

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Good point - I missed that obvious issue in my review. Both checked out as square as can be.

[@ryanellis7520]

@@SmallWorkshopGuy 👍

[@messinger2]

ROCK CHALK! JAYHAWK GO KU!

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Yes indded - loved that place - time of my life.

[@davisnin]

Rock Chalk!

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Yea, Baby!

[@RazorStrap]

A cheap square that's true is better than an expensive square that's false. Buy a cheap square and make it true. Anyone who is going to be using squares should hone their skills to check and true them. Not much worse than someone who can't maintain the tools they use.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Oh I think many things in this world are worse than some hobby woodworker who may not know how to square his squares!

[@drewt6235]

@ “15 subscribers” I subscribed😜🤫👍

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

You noticed that statement, huh!

[@katekeough9819]

Just joined your Facebook

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Great - hope you enjoy the Group: Small Workshop Woodworking Community. Almost 100,000. stong now

[@GraemePayne1967Marine]

I do not and will not do Facebook. Or most other "social" things.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

That is probably smart - allows you to focus on real life relationships to a greater extent. I support your choice. I will say, however, that I have developed some really nice, supportive relationships with other woodworkers and some of us are becoming friends, although virtual. But I do plan on dropping by to see some of their workshops and meet their families when I travel to their part of the country.

[@hofnerbass]

Halfway through the video and still does not get to the point. Could have shown the actual amount of squareness of each gauge.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

Hey, thanks for commenting. My assumption is that all doubles squares from reputable companies will be square - at least until I drop them a few times. Appreciate your view and the fact that you took the time to comment. I was just trying to figure out why the Starrett brand is so expensive. I have come to love it for the non-glare metal and the preciseness of the markings.

[@coffeecupblue]

@@SmallWorkshopGuy I liked your video. I'd suggest the same though, that you may be losing people by not getting to the meat of the matter quickly. Maybe start with that and move on to the other info. Also, I too was looking to determine if the iGaging was square. At amazon comments, some find it square, and others don't. Hard to figure out what's going on with that tool. Like some are and some aren't? Anyway, thanks and good luck.

[@eliassimon7947]

Give the starrett pls

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

As much as I like my very few subscribers, I have grown fond of my Starrett Double Square - I think about the brand name each time I grab it out of my tool apron.

[@BeardedGolf22]

3:35

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

???

[@John-yt5zr]

Make videos or not, quite begging for people to fund your lifestyle through patreon. It’s embarrassing.

[@SmallWorkshopGuy]

So, am I safe to assume you will not be supporting me via Patreon?! LOL. My "lifestyle" as you call it would improve immediately if I stopped doing video production and cancelled all of my overhead software..... just sayin'! But, hey, thanks for you feedback.