Complete Failure vs Fear and Hunger

[@Foxcade]

The moment when the dancer came over to John to say goodbye and got a bit more physical than he expected, I swear steam was about to shoot out of his ears with how red he got.

[@DelNiceBeto]

We love you fox

[@HolyDeviant1]

I can *hear* the cartoon steam whistle

[@Vulgarth1]

Loved your Nier Retrospective, dude.

[@SupSatire]

Bless you Fox, I'm sorry you got fired

[@gatfatf]

Not gonna lie dude, kind of an asshole thing to do

[@TravenTalks]

Interesting character dynamic developing in this episode: Woolie - literally walks through pitch black darkness and mountains of bugs to slay old gods John - is easily embarrassed and has trouble reading the time

[@DarthEnderX]

Woolie: "I'm gonna get that boulder up that hill!" John: "Imma nap."

[@ArvelDreth]

John has beaten the game multiple times on Terror and Starvation though

[@ColonelMustache]

THIS SHOW FUCKING RULES PODCASTS AREN'T SUPPOSED TO HAVE PLOT TWISTS AND CHARACTER ARCS BUT HERE WE FUCKIN GO

[@Kr1z92]

Bro the way my jaw dropped at the reveal that woolie beat fear and hunger. 😂😂

[@rhair7143]

Bro.... Their collective power of storytelling is fucking God-like. The muses have blessed these men the likes have only been seen before with Homer. One of the few podcasts worth listening to not just for the content, interest but the friendship and delivery. Amazing work

[@KYKARMA]

The classic Dave Strider "people don't have arcs"

[@mikacondria]

​@@KYKARMA lol

[@GenePark]

John going “I’m not …” outside of woolie and punchmom’s hotel room is killing me

[@nataliecameron]

Oh shit it's hit journalist gene park

[@rikimaru700]

It's the man himself

[@SwagBroPlays]

Well if it isn't Gene Park: The Legendary Dragon of Washington D.C 😮

[@TeeSeeDubs]

Strip Club Jesus is here

[@johnathanwilliams3039]

@genepark you are a freaking king for bringing this Bit to us. I HAVE NOT LAUGHED THIS HARD IN YEARS.

[@BlueHawkeye725]

Woolie calmly asking John "Should this be about hatred?" before recommending Omikron is one of the coldest lines ever dropped

[@RipOffProductionsLLC]

The man beat Fear & Hunger through pure spite while his friend failed to show up to a tournament, being a bit hateful is to be expected...

[@Porterhaus94]

This continues to age extremely well

[@RhysClark97]

3:01:45 John now realising he made Woolie suffer through a game he clearly didnt enjoy just to say he beat it on this podcast just for him to not even show up at a fighting game event is so hilarious.

[@gameb9oy]

And Woolie retaliated by making him play ze bad game

[@antisocialexperiment2033]

The buildup and execution to "Are you... supereyepatch wolf" was sublime

[@yhposolihP]

This episode: Woolie recommends Omikron to John. Next episode is Foxcade on camera: "John and Woolie are no longer friends."

[@user-zl9vh2xr6b]

I know I'm a month late and it's already out, but It's just clips of each of them in their own room talking to the camera about how the podcast can no longer continue because John and Woolie are no longer friends, and how it's been a great journey, and where we can find each of them in their future endeavours.

[@TreeEmmisary]

John beat Fear and Hunger like Griffith. Woolie beat fear and hunger like Guts. EDIT: Getting to the recommendations, The shock/joy of Woolie upon hearing Earthbound is something I was looking forward to with this podcast. EDIT 2, ELECTRIC BOOGALOO: Wowie this post got a shoutout, thanks john!

[@liu3chan]

"I want wings. Chat, can we do that?"

[@anenemystand5582]

Down to the fact that John is the reason Woolie descended into this hell

[@fraserking4747]

Crazy how this comment got mentioned in the newest episode lol

[@TreeEmmisary]

@@fraserking4747 I was INCREDIBLY shocked

[@BusterCorp]

"I have a wife and we play Playstation together"

[@Dabednego]

I cackled like a SWAMP HAG when that line dropped

[@tubeminer1325]

Such a weirdly wholesome response

[@Hy93Ri0n]

I think "I'm a youtuber too" has been dethroned

[@soulblue65]

It becomes all the more funny and kinda horrifying when he shows the footage of the FGC

[@bazzjedimaster]

The modern equivalent of "I sleep in a big bed with my wife"

[@ryanmullins8836]

Watching Woolie's soul die at the combo breaker x2 only to turn the tables with OMIKRON was such a powerful sequence

[@TheOldYoungOne]

I audibly gasped

[@arempy5836]

Nobody puts Woolie in the corner.

[@therealjohnrenzi1817]

Jon absolutely experienced a canon event that day in that club. Goddamn.

[@mechavarice]

“Foxcade, you’re fired. Don’t worry about finishing editing this episode, buddy.” THAT’S WHY THE EPISODE WAS LATE! xD

[@Foxcade]

If you know anyone in need of an editor, I take cash and/or clout.

[@DilanExist]

What about beans? ​@@Foxcade

[@fireandthunder9862]

Glad John could join the "Promise nothing and deliver less" brand.

[@The5lacker]

"I have a couple of save files in Fear and Hunger that say otherwise, John." Jesus.

[@RipOffProductionsLLC]

Fear & Hunger *does* things to people.

[@Khann_2102]

Funger moment

[@mariannalovegood2418]

"Did you save Le'gard?" "Who's Le'gard?" Never change Woolie

[@inquisitorowl5215]

It's very funny that Woolie's "recomendation" for John was a fucking crown of thorns and a crucifix, while his "punishment" is a peak fiction movie and a fun, if embarrassing, time with a friend.

[@ianbyrne465]

Classic Woolie, lying again

[@cjs4363]

I could hear the "beep bap bo na na" as soon as Woolie was thinking of a punishment and I'm so disappointed that I was correct in Omikron but he ended up backing down

[@Dabednego]

@@cjs4363TAKE BACK THE VINYL BING BANG TOMATO

[@gorimbaud]

i half expected john's b-roll to be a huge surprise of him showing footage of attending and winning the tournament, the man has some real swerves in him

[@letyvdx]

"that message is from 3 hours ago" my blood ran cold, I'M GONNA HAVE NIGHTMARES!

[@Doomroar]

Imagine if next month we get to find out that John drowned in pools

[@FrozenOver0]

I have had real life nightmares about getting that kind of text from work.

[@centuronstar8688]

I felt nothing but pain from that line drop.

[@KeroKaminaX]

3:19:54 next month: Versus Wolves episode 3 (FINAL)

[@danielasilva69457]

I'll be real with you guys. Eye patch Wolf and I are no longer friends

[@burnout02urza]

Woolie, during the Eclipse, being surrounded by a hundred demons: "I'll CRAWL out of here if I have to, assholes!"

[@theslakemoth]

John: "I love you" Michelle: "ye" Ouch

[@SDM-Zone]

I knew it. I'm so surprised that Woolie managed. I take back everything I thought and felt about Woolie. He's a real one, he can spite his way through anything. Truly the realest Versus Wolf.

[@ChillyMakesMusic]

Woolie's empty scroll/torch story is such a perfect example of the Fear & Hunger experience: pressing through a spiteful, oppressive experience with nothing but resources/knowledge and sheer willpower.

[@OsoIncog]

8 hours of Woolie podcasting out this week, we did it boys, a full work day

[@Friedensp4nzer]

"I have a wife and we play Playstation together." is simultaneously so sweet and hilarious; I will never forget this sentence.

[@nic3521]

The funniest thing about Woolie making John play Omikron is that Woolie wasn't even on the controls for most of it, really just the infrequent fighting sections.

[@Dabednego]

His greatest contribution was screaming at Pat over a screwdriver

[@michaelbecker7288]

To be fair woolie had to decipher two seperate ancient tomes (gamefaq walkthroughs) while guiding the others through that nightmare. And as we know looking up what to do is 50% of playing omikron.

[@brycecartwright2403]

Future viewer here; this detail is in fact very important and a chekovs gun that may fire one day

[@kaleidoslug7777]

This series has crazy foreshadowing

[@HDmexsComboCon]

John's FGC career is like the games he plays... delay based.

[@TheValiantBob]

The funny thing is that Woolie is 100% right about the whole teenage edgy thing with Fear and Hunger. The creator of the game said he came up with the idea while in a high school tabletop gaming group where he ran a prototype version of what would later become Fear and Hunger as a pen and paper ttrpg where he deliberately made the scenarios as disturbing as possible to squick out the other members of the gaming club.

[@PotionSmeller]

You can tell he matured a lot too. He reins that shit in HARD in Termina. It's still edgy but not nearly as pointlessly so.

[@raioh4747]

@@PotionSmeller Yeah, it's one of the reasons I like termina more, it's got way less edgy teen vibes, can't wait to see where the dev goes from here, this guy has so much potential

[@The5lacker]

There's a certain vibe you can get from some things where you can go "Even if you aren't a teenager now, you *came up with this* as a teenager." An example I like to recommend on the TTRPG front is a little something called "Shadow of the Demon Lord." It's a neat DnD-esque system, it's got an honestly fairly fleshed out and interesting setting... but it's also just bluntly, blatantly *gross* in ways that are really cool if you're fifteen. As a quick example, there are *two* ways for your character's dick to fall off in the core rule book.

[@gusbart5856]

@@PotionSmeller pointless edge lol

[@PotionSmeller]

@@gusbart5856 F&H started as a little project in Miro's high school class about trying to build an edgy and shocking campaign setting, where high school kids contributed their ideas of what a vile and morbid fantasy dungeon should have.

[@Rycluse]

"Are you Super Eyepatch Wolf" oh god I fucking DIED Edit: THE TWIST HOLY SHIT

[@BYTEabridged]

I feel like if their challenges were swapped, John would give up on Fear & Hunger without meeting the Crow Mauler (yet stumble on something more terrifying) while Woolie would not only create a FGC in Ireland in one month, but win one of the tournaments as well.

[@_Jay_Maker_]

I wonder if John would drop out as soon as he encountered the Gaoler's Third Arm. 😆

[@ZweihanderSteve]

Nothing beats I completely normal sentence like "I FEEL NORMAL"

[@ozgho09]

3:04:00 "I- I love you." "yeah." She was so done with his shit.

[@ciyanfrit7221]

The Gods of Spite and Fumble

[@odolowa1]

"I have a wife and we play Playstation together" will be burned permanently into my memory.

[@RougeMephilesClone]

In this episode, Woolie learns that time in prison makes you stronger, and John learns that time in public shaves years off your life. Versus Wolves will continue until one of the hosts _dies._

[@TheBeerBaron]

I am literally sweating from how much I've been laughing. John slapped Woolie across the face and Woolie responded with nuclear bombs. This podcast is very very quickly rising to my all time favorite. I cannot wait to see how this degenerates into a bitter rivalry and pure spite. Next month is gonna be WILD

[@ElysianLys]

WHAT A WILD RIDE! John's FGC misadventure is my actual nightmare and that's why I make 100000% certain to confirm any and all dates multiple places; my calendar, my phone alarms, anyone who's coming with me because I can't trust my own brain or sense of passing time

[@Loffeleif]

This podcast is instantly my most beloved thing so far this year

[@DrazGames]

The sheer indomitable spirit on display of Woolie dragging his broken body through Fear & Hunger is powerful, the man cannot be stopped. I do wish the recommendation had been the base difficulty so he might've actually enjoyed it more, but man, I did not expect him to hit credits on a not-bad-ending.

[@Loffeleif]

John quoting Linkin Park to summarise his failures is a mood

[@zephshoir]

The Torches mechanic is the biggest reason I am not a fan of recommending Terror & Starvation to newcomers. I get why John got Woolie to play it like that, but part of me is wondering if Woolie would have had a better time on the base difficulty, which would already be challenge enough for most people. You straight up don't need torches to see in the base difficulty, and that seems to be what most negatively affected Woolie's experience with the game. Also, sad to hear that he has been having so many bugs, those can rightfully annoy most people.

[@The5lacker]

This is actually something I've been idly curious about every since SuperEyepatchWolf's video: What's the *big* difference between the two difficulty modes?

[@matilyn_rf]

​@@The5lackeron the normal mode: enemies have less hp and do kess dmg, you can see in a reduced area without a torch, less random events that entirely fuck you over, easier to escape from battles, and you miss out on some unique events related to possible party members

[@SnowyJop]

I had a handful of crashes and a quick google search helped me find a fix that involved editing a single line of code, never had any issues after that. Not that any game should ever require you to do this, but I'm surprised Woolie didn't stumble across this since he was looking a few things up.

[@Dabednego]

Woolie making John watch a movie whose title requires him to say the letter "R" three times feels like a power move, and as a response I think next time John should recommend a piece of media that has any of the following words in the title: Skeletal Palette Won Figure Gascoigne

[@SS-um8ji]

You had me at “perform the RRR dance together.” I can’t fucking wait.

[@IAMUtubeSockPuppet]

Woolie truly roleplaying the tormented soul with that approach to Fear and Hunger.

[@valkayink]

The one two punch of Woolies insane effort into Funger to John's miss was amazing, but then these recs were so good on top of that, great job! Super looking forward to the next one ^^

[@galgow]

Oh my god woolie the absolute legend O Lord Give Torch I'm cryinggg

[@kennykrool74]

Woolie spent 30 years learning fighting game combos specifically to have the memory capacity to play through Fear and Hunger without torches

[@oddlots2186]

Hearing Johns FGC tale and just thinking "Yep you kick that football Charlie Brown"

[@StereotypicalLife]

Eyepatch Wolf really snatched defeat from the jaws of victory in this episode. XD

[@yetimalone2844]

I just thought about how Woolie is podcasting with a fan from like 10 years ago

[@JoeyStalley]

The ending of this episode may as well be Woolie embracing the Satsui No Hado

[@atomic_godz]

John: I'm dyslexic Woolie: I sentence you to eternal suffering and a dance number Might be my favorite podcast of all time.

[@typhonyx_was_taken]

Every episode is going to be Wolf failing the task and Woolie getting combo breaker-ed

[@agentepsilon5014]

John was hyping up this story on stream, but nothing could prepare me for that trainwreck

[@User5770]

The world's most powerful book club RETURNS

[@zerumsiru5204]

fun fact, Street Fighter Online was a thing back in 2008. It's full name was "Street Fighter Online: Mouse Generation" in which it was a crossover game that happened to feature Street Fighter characters, as well as characters from Louis Cha's novels, Cyborg 009 and Rival Schools.

[@gusbusfusrus2351]

It also had Barack Obama as a character

[@doremiancleff1508]

Knowing that Woolie played fps with mouse and controller kinda explains why he got through Fear and Hunger.

[@dylanmcnab2980]

I forgot about his stupid setup

[@PikaPenny17]

What's "fps"? Do you mean First Person Shooter games, or...?

[@ArmoredRevenger]

@@PikaPenny17 Yes he had a fucked up setup that he defends with his life where he has a fucking stick for moving and a mouse for aim. Refuses to learn how to use a keyboard.

[@pricklypear3625]

@@ArmoredRevenger Wasd sucks for 3d movement so I don't blame him.

[@rheawelsh4142]

​@@pricklypear3625For third person but in first it's honestly pretty valuable a lot of time to have instant right and left movement for juking people out or retreating a little faster

[@supercptkumatwitchclips6734]

Showing up 3 hours late to bracket is such a FGC thing, you're doing it right so far Joho.

[@FluffiBois]

John/SEW bringing the most aggression and hype to these podcasts only to not even attend the local FGC is the equivalent of a young wrestler new to the scene coming in with the flashiest entrance only to get KO’d in thirty seconds or less

[@Kd.104]

Just rolled credits playing final fantasy 7 original and saw a new versus wolves upload, life is good

[@joemcstinky]

I just lost an hour of Persona 3 Tarturus Progress, so I'm gonna start this episode while I wind down. Congrats of beating FFVII, Fun Game!

[@Porterhaus94]

Now go play the remake/rebirth demo!

[@daviddotson765]

Versus Wolves [FINAL]

[@Loffeleif]

Omfg. John VS Omikron. The game that killed SBFP. Will John throw Shenmue 3 at Woolie next month?

[@djblaklite]

OH GOD ITS SO POSSIBLE

[@okamiv5]

When exactly in the playthrough would you say it happened? Because fuck you might be right

[@josh-oo]

​@@okamiv5 Around the point when Woolie started saying he was gonna off everyone and then himself, and they would all thank him.

[@Rusty_Spy]

Versus Wolves [Final] Pat: "John and Woolie are no longer friends"

[@SwagBroPlays]

They played Omikron waaaay b4 the breakup. Kingdom Hearts is what killed it

[@comradet0m]

John living up to that Final Gamer moniker. Final gamer to arrive, that is.

[@MasterEth]

Ok this is my new favorite podcast. There's actually stakes, it's hilarious, and there are punishments if challenges to not get finished. I love everything about this.

[@tjrohie]

SIN, FOOD, SIN ,FOOD, SIN, FOOD would make a banger shirt design

[@MizzieMox]

3:19:53 This might be the cruelest fate one person can commit onto another.

[@noellesato311]

[Woolie with his head down, back turned to Wolf] I didn't want to- you have to know this is- I tried. I tried. *shells being loaded into a double barrel shotgun* John- I'm sorry, I tried. I tried, I really tried, John- *snap* I really tried, I gave it an effort. *click* John. John. I tried. I really tried.

[@TheOldYoungOne]

⁠@@noellesato311John: NO NO NO WAIT WAIT WAIT NOOOOOOO

[@TheCivicBear]

The tale about going fighting game tournament ending with "the dog ate my homework" vibes had me floored with laughter. Looking forward to the next episode!

[@TheKise77]

the level of hype with the hard cut of "I don't want to make this about hatred" because I was hoping for the game drop and wasn't expecting it to happen so soon but I am VERY excited for the next episode

[@megasartshack]

I don't want to be preemptive... But this may be the best podcast ever concieved, it's certaintly the most powerful one I've encountered.

[@Dirty0o0Jester]

Now lets all remember, another of Woolie's core memories as a KZbin entity is Pat, a man who GLEEFULLY cheats, and save scums, i am absolutely proud of Woolz for mushroom slapping Funger right back xD

[@typhonyx_was_taken]

“I’m not made of stone, Woolie” Jesus H Christ lmao

[@ryanstrong371]

John fumbles the bag for a three and a half hour video

[@ElysianLys]

Months later, this is still my favorite Versus Wolves episode. You can't get more iconic than this. Magfest origin story AND strip club betrayal AAAAND Woolie playing Funger like an insane person AAAAAAAAAAAND John's utter ruination at the hands of time management???? Where else can you get this, folks.

[@jude6540]

Absolutely unhinged energy on this podcast. And it's only episode two.

[@hiroprotagonest]

1:47:30 Sylvain from 3 Houses appears in godly glory and says "YEAH YOU JUST GET IT DUDE"

[@EbbandFlows]

So from the video segments Woolie talks about Fear and Hunger for over an hour and John only talks about his challenge for 20 mins... I can already tell John somehow messed up something

[@SnowyJop]

The thing about Fear and Hunger is it's almost a lot more of a roguelight than an RPG. Once I started thinking of it that way I didn't get nearly as upset about losing progress.

[@squidlump]

I’d say it’s more a roguelike then roguelite

[@RipOffProductionsLLC]

@@squidlump it does not have enough randomization for Rogue-Like. hell, I'd say there are far too many things that are consistent for even a "-Lite" label. yes, the RNG can make or brake a run, but RNG based Loot Tables alone does not make a Rogue-Anything.

[@squidlump]

@@RipOffProductionsLLC there’s no meta progression between runs, thus it is MORE a roguelike than roguelite. Never said it literally was one or the other

[@SnowyJop]

@@squidlump If we're being purists I don't think it would technically qualify as either because of the way save points are implemented in the game, it's not true permadeath. Even the save points could be considered meta progression but yeah.

[@Kraze.chambers]

I love that woolie played fear and hunger somehow in the most fear and hunger way possible. Getting through with spite and willpower

[@sharlockshacolmes9381]

A famous cosplayer knows your work "oh shit people watch my stuff" A stripper recognize you at her workplace "oh shit I'm famous"

[@coreyh.5696]

THE SOUND THAT I MADE WHEN WOOLIE RECOMMENDED SAGA TO JOHN PLEASE, PLEASE TALK ABOUT SAGA. IT'S MY FAVORITE COMIC OF ALL TIME

[@noname-xk6uz]

I commented on a different epw video that "Catholic guilt is an Irish man wearing a Garfield costume and apologizing to over a million strangers at the same time". I'm not quite sure how to encapsulate this one.

[@blehblah3022]

Okay so after a quick google search at the start of this episode it has come to my attention that Street Fighter Online is a REAL GAME, and it DOES feature a character called Hu Fei!? Unless someone has made up a wikipedia page and multiple articles for a fake video game then Street Fighter Online: Mouse Generation seems to have been a pc, mouse controlled fighting game that is now lost media. The game featured street fighter characters, rival schools characters, characters from novels and some other weird crossovers, Hu Fei being a character from a Louis Cha novel. It also seems it was made in association with revoltech. I can't believe this lol.

[@mariotaz]

I remember downloading it when it came out.

[@Doomroar]

"mouse controlled fighting game" Oh boy

[@whathitwonder4037]

Be right back, gotta Google something..

[@Shakespearoe]

I also featured Barack Obama as a DLC character, no joke.

[@Shakespearoe]

static.wikia.nocookie.net/streetfighter/images/d/df/Obama_Street_Fighter.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170225152552

[@Ranakel]

Honestly, fucking up after doing a lot and ending up not going to a tourney you really wanted to attend but ultimately didn't is also the true FGC experience.

[@Fomor_Ian]

Sucks to hear Dublin has no FGC, but s/o to y’all for giving me the push to check out my locals! I am also not the best at new social situations but I ended having a lot of fun playing casuals and watching brackets.

[@TheBAGman17]

Man I had a local scene but it got ruined by Leroy right before I went, only one guy showed up beat my ass with Lilly then before I could work up the nerve to go back Covid killed the entire venue. Now everything I’m looking at is at least a 2 hour drive away.

[@ArvelDreth]

It's kind of hilarious how Woolie is supposedly recommending Omikron out of revenge or something when all of Woolie's suffering is 100% self inflicted. The challenge was "encounter Crow Mauler". Woolie decided on his own that he would basically do a completionist run and decided to not look anything up. John did not inflict any of that on him.

[@ParanoidGamer122]

Genuinely one of the best podcasts I've ever had the pleasure of watching/listening to. Chemistry has always been good but now it's off the charts. Can't wait for the next one!

[@riverofpower5659]

The second he brought up RRR as a punishment, I immediately thought he’s gonna make him perform something from it. As soon as he said “a particular dance number” I screamed to myself “I know what you’re getting at”!!! This is going to be SO GOOD!!

[@cybergeek11235]

honestly, the shocking-est part is that woolie said they'd do it *TOGETHER*

[@Jumungous]

That dancer did Idle Transfiguration on John with a single question. Props.

[@hydehg1441]

after the strip club story, I'm imagining john in the shinji chair pose lol +

[@bluegrave4376]

I'm laughing at John's misery over the events at the strip club knowing full well I'd be acting the exact same way if I was there lmao

[@WIImotionmasher]

The strip club story, the re-occurring John saying "we'll get there" was great because it setup just how memorable it was to Woolie he has all these things brimming to say, and John's just trying to tell a story lmao

[@djblaklite]

....this is exactly how i expected this podcast to go. because ive been watching both of your projects, both separate, and together, for years, and i, for one, am absolutely, not disappointed. fuck yes.

[@tjmanning]

28:20 Im not even catholic and I had this exact same experience at the strip club. You work so hard to not stare and then it’s like “no thats the POINT”.

[@cwilliams0889]

Next month is gonna be “A RECOMMENDATION WARCRIME VS EARTHBOUND”

[@keksis]

This is the best podcast ever holy shit! The rollercoaster of emotions I felt from the Gunbuster talk, to Fear and Hunger, Jonh's fgc failure, to the ending. Like i need to take a nap or some shit.

[@Bhearu]

Seeing John walk around cork feels so bizarre, I always forgot how small ireland is

[@magickoopa24]

As someone who has listened to eyepatchwolf diss Jeff Bakalar over at GB's jojo pod, its very fun to see that same energy get aimed right back at him

[@RougeMephilesClone]

And it carried over into the latest episode.

[@Porterhaus94]

3:17:42 - If John had just lied and simply told Woolie he hadn't played Inscription before, I wonder what alternate timeline this podcast would delve into. (speaking from Aug 2024)

[@Maioly]

2:38:08 I'd argue the dark elements of the first fear and hunger do have a place beyond just being dark. They are painting a picture of just how hopeless the dungeon is and how beyond human morals the old gods (and to a lesser extent the new gods) are; The dungeon of Fear and Hunger is like an amalgamation of all the darkest elements of humanity and then beyond into the realm of ancient eldritch gods that barely even recognize humanity as something worth their attention, and what attention humanity does get from them is something almost completely alien. It is dark to a silly degree sometimes, yes, but that's the point, being there, trying to go deeper, its like diving into something beyond hell itself; Being sent there is a fate worst than death, going there of your own free will is absolutely a horrible mistake that you most likely cant escape from. It says something that, for more horrible that the events of the second game are, they are not as morally repugnant as what can be found in the dungeons of fear and hunger

[@conelybiscuit4985]

the bluntness of it is pretty admirable imho. a lot of extremely bleak and disturbing settings give the player character a degree of plot armor in how fucked up they can get, so going in you see a guy with a giant "stinger" and you're like "well that's a little odd but what's the worst that can happen to me? i'm Player Character!" and then, yeah, *that* happens, and while John and Woolie go hard on it, i think the fact that it's not a game over and you just have to tend to your wounds (farcical as they may be) and keep going is what makes it less exploitative and more just a part of the world. the worst thing ever happened to you, but you're not dead and you're still bleeding from somewhere very bad, so what are you gonna do about that? it doesn't just end because something horrific happened and the game felt it couldn't top that. instead you're just left with new problems, just like when you get badly fucked up in real life.

[@Maioly]

@@conelybiscuit4985 pretty much yeah They keep trying to call it imature and.such But.imature would be if the game insulted you over it or kept calling attention to it. But its just a thing that happened and its up to you as the player how you deal with that. And that specific example has an outside representation too, as It happens to cahara if not picked as the player character, and while traumatized by it they just try to move past it and survive.

[@ArcMinuteLight]

In their criticism of it they emphasize a lot about Guts and Casca getting to recover from their trauma, but they're forgetting who they're playing as. In Berserk, Guts is a main character, HE gets to recover; by contrast Bazuso is a side character, HE gets to die. In Fear & Hunger, the player character will never *not* be a Bazuso, the game embraces the brutality of the medieval era and often that means people can end up dying like a dog for no good reason. It's only by sheer luck (and meta foreknowledge) that the player character doesn't get immediately swat out of existence like the mountains of other corpses in the dungeon. It reminds me a lot of Lamentations of the Flame Princess, your character is as good as dead if anything "interesting" starts happening. The moment you take a single step towards that obelisk in the distance, there's no escape. Shouldn't have looked, got dealt a bad hand, that's rough buddy.

[@Maioly]

@@ArcMinuteLight that and berserk happens over a much longer timeframe than fear and hunger, even if the characters were to recover, we dont get to see that, at most read abou it in the few endings they make it out.

[@Xocists]

I never thought I'd be joining the Anal Bleeding Defence Force but here I am, I guess. I second everything everyone else has said, and would go further. Think that a great deal more thought went into the guards than most people give the game credit for. A big part of that is the fact that they are placed so early in the game; are likely one of the first enemies you will run into. This is the game setting expectations early on, showing you in unambiguous terms just where it's willing to go. This creates a dread in the player, wondering what other horrors await them. Thing is, the game never really goes that hard down that particular path again; soon becomes a lot more subtle in the horror it has to offer. The game playing the same sort of trick as a survival horror game being extra stingy with resources in the opening act, in order to condition the player to feel a sense of anxiousness whenever they have to expend resources. Now, some might still consider it to be juvenile, or tasteless, or outside their personal comfort zone; but what it isn't is thoughtless or without purpose. You could also argue about whether the game needs to be quite so crude in order to achieve its intended effect. However, I'd argue, in this instance, the crudeness is sort of the point.