Complete Guide to College of Valor | Bard Subclass D&D 5e Deep Dive

[@deluchiha957]

I appreciate this so much! Valor Bard was my first class ever, and this makes me realize I can revive that character :)

[@phelopatirabdel-malak554]

I gotta ask, since this was your first character, was it hard to play as that character?

[@shadowmyst9661]

I can guarantee that my next Bard I play will be a Valor Bard Archer. I love playing my Sword Bard as the Melee Sword Dancer type. And I love using debuff spells in combat. Slow has become one of my favorites, and has absolutely made all the difference in of so many fights for my party.

[@ChristnThms]

Some criticisms of the Bard-cher center on the opportunity costs of not focusing exclusively on fight winning spell. But... If you come from the direction of wanting to be an ultimate archer, few things can strengthen an archer as much as a good selection of spells. From the perspective of playing an archer first, the Bard-cher looks a lot stronger.

[@DracosDiabolis]

ok Sage. unorthadox Archer build but plays mostly the same as you descrribed in the video. (sorry for the misspells. havnt had coffee as the time of typing this.) Valor Bard 10 Artillerist Artificer 10 your cannon plays the part of the bow with unlimited ammo. you can now still carry a shield that now can push mobs back when they get too close. and if you need a big boom, ... (who doesnt from time to time) catipult your cannon 50ish ft down range and blow it up. and i think you can use your inspration die to give disavantage on your booming catipulted cannon recepenates. awesome video as always, now. im going to zombie walk myself to the coffee pot.

[@tirionpendragon]

Oh boy this is my favorite subclass in the game, I'm running to watch the video! 🏃🤩

[@glitchking666]

I really like the barcher build it's not one I have thought of before but it definitely adds a new dynamic to the valor bard. Just need to grab a race that gives you a great free spell that can help and you've definitely got an excellent build

[@DnD_Daily]

Air genasi comes to mind. Levitate them in the air then shoot them with your bow while they’re helpless.

[@glitchking666]

@@DnD_Daily and with the increased walking speed you makes you a great mobile artillery hope the ranger in the party doesn't get mad for stepping on their toes

[@tirionpendragon]

I love this video and you bringed the right glory to the powerful archer Valor Bard, but I think that even on melee the Valor Bard offers nice opportunities, not specifically to deal tons of damage but to become a powerful grappler with expertise on "athletics" the extra attack and the spell "enhance ability" to gain Doble proficiency bonus and advantage on the strength checks! The nice thing is that you can do all of this without commit your archer capabilities, you can pick a rapier like secondary weapon and just put a 10 or a 12 on strenght to gain this really nice and powerful combat option! I personally play my Valor Bard in this way because is way more fun. I can shot by the distance or help my allies on the first line with my grapple style and I love it. The second reason why I love this build is because I like to take ammunition counted in my games, so I think an archer couldn't rush out all the arrows constantly and sometimes is nice to keep your arrows reserve safe and engage a melee fight anyway.

[@DnD_Daily]

Very interesting take! I like it!

[@TheMemo659]

The archer valor bard sure seems like a solid build..... but I am in love with my great sword valor bard and found a couple ways to make it super effective. War caster feat at lvl 4 means spells with hands full = np, and you'll have a decent chance of holding concentration even when throwing yourself into the thick of a melee. With 10th level magical secrets spells, grab the level 2 paladin spell branding smite as one of the two choices. Low buy in, and stacks with spell slot used. Gives a valor bard the ability to punch like a pally when needed with a but load of spell slots to fuel that punch. It was the moment my bard went from "OK target is debuffed, anyone need healing? No? OK. Guess I'll take a couple swings" to the DM going "WTF? You did HOW much damage that round??!!" Looking forward to level 14. Sunbeam (6d8 radiant hand laser for 10 rounds) with magical secrets + the cast and melee attack feature should be a fun trick to pull out. Optimal? Maybe not? But she is a VERY effective quad class the way I built her and possibly my favorite character to date. That's saying a lot, I've played DnD for a very long time.

[@frederikferguson2571]

I was with you regarding the war caster feat. The rest kinda sounded like min maxing to me

[@TheMemo659]

@@frederikferguson2571 And? There is a definite separation between WHO my characters are and the skills n stats on the paper in front of me. I see zero problems building her to be able to nuke effectively. It suits my play style and does not detract from role playing a VERY fun VERY versatile character in any way. FWIW unsheathing swords in that campaign is a last resort. She bards it up most of the time. Programmed Illusion gets used vastly more often then Banishing Smite.

[@nichlasbundgaard5583]

Valor bard will probably be my first bard, i'm not sure what kind of playstyle i want to go with yet but i'm sure it'll be fun. Fun little thing we've added to the valor bard to make it different than swird bard is that when an ally uses your inspiration dice they gain temp hp equal to your proficiency bonus, it's a small thing sure but i hope it works.

[@MyGamerforlife]

One of my players is running a 16 str long tooth shifter. We gave her a greatsword and now she’s nearly on par with my barbarian.

[@anthonycannon811]

I’m a lvl 2 high elf bard (first character ever) with the following stats: Str 11 Dev 17 Con 13 Int 13 Wis 12 Char 15 Since my dex is decent, I’m gonna increase my char and con from the go. Taking fey touched for my lineage flavoring (& for that Misty+ additional spell). Also, Gonna be using the following weapons: A violin that folds into a bow A blow gun built into the violin’s bow And a dagger with a built-in flute ( like the green ranger’s dagger from mighty morphin power rangers)

[@reiji_soma3419]

I want to flavor my bow as a harp.

[@DnD_Daily]

I’m playing a bard in one of my games that is doing exactly that. Check out elden rings “harp bow” for a pretty cool design.

[@SK-WPG]

Interesting build. Thanks. Loved the joke.

[@stevenobrien7686]

I keep seeing people say they prefer sword bard for a spell bow. Not sure which is more optimal.

[@DnD_Daily]

They each have their own strengths, very dependent on personal preference

[@veikkovuokila8012]

I think Swords bard is honestly better a better spellbow than valor. You don't get longbow proficiency baked in, true, but you can get that pretty easily from your race, or by dipping a level of fighter at the start which also gets you the fighting style and CON save proficiency. I would probably go with an elf for the longbow proficiency and grab Elven Accuracy and Sharpshooter, which is a fantastic combo with Faerie Fire, Greater Invisibility, or Guardian of Nature as a magical secret. I'd also skip Swift Quiver personally, it's a fifth level spell that does nothing on the turn you cast it (you only get to make the attacks on the following turn), so if you lose concentration you've completely wasted a high level slot. And the payoff isn't that great either, unless maybe if you have another reliable source of advantage. The Blade Flourishes can be used with a ranged weapon just fine, and synergize well with Elven Accuracy since you can treat them as mini-smites to be used on a crit. So yeah, I want to love the valor bard, and if you're looking to just play a full caster with a better AC and no multiclassing then it's a great choice. But I think Swords outshines it in a lot of ways.

[@jagdhillon757]

I think Swords can beat Valor in an Archer build too, but beating Valor towards a sub-optimal strategy is pyrrhic at best. It's something neither class should optimally try to do. You alluded to it with your critique of the Swift Quiver strategy. And so, Swords outshine Valor in 'the wrong way' is kind of pointless. Valor is a robust full caster that gains in an area of weakness for Bard, instead of gaining in an area of strength. It's a study in Opportunity Cost. Does it give you more in relative value when compared to Lore/Eloquence/Glamour? Most people would say no, especially for Eloquence, but then most players aren't tested regularly due to hiding in the back line of parties. That's a skewed context. In a fair game where the robustness of every player is tested... That's a different story, so YMMV. I enjoyed this video. Sage correctly highlights the underrated value of what Valor brings, IMO. This is not a common understanding from what I have seen on the net. Kudos.

[@veikkovuokila8012]

@@jagdhillon757 That's absolutely true, in a vacuum a support/control casting focused bard is stronger than one that focuses more on martial damage output. But I think it's a little disingenuous to call that strategy suboptimal. I hear this a lot with regards to Bladesingers, where people say that eventually weapon attacks stop being worth it because even though there are spells that support that playstyle, the control spells are better. But so what? If someone wants to play a bard or wizard that makes the most of their weapon attacks, that's totally a valid way to play and a way that you can optimize. And in parties that lack single target damage output otherwise, these gish subclasses are fairly competitive with the martials in the damage department, while still providing great spellcasting on the side. So depending on the rest of your party I'd say they can be even more "optimal" than your average eloquence/lore spellcasting-focused bard. It's all a matter of party composition and preferred playstyle in my view.

[@tirionpendragon]

@@veikkovuokila8012 I think that these talks about which one is better makes no sense in d&d, simply because this isn't a video-game and there isn't a "meta", the better thing is ever what makes your taste and fun! This is the reason why now I hate some subclasses idolized on dnd community, classes like Battlemaster and Echo Knight fighter, Gloomstalker Ranger and others, these are all Subclasses that had lost their flavour and enjoyment to play, because now people choose this Subclasses (I take like example battlemaster) only for min-maxing the number of damages and other stuffs and not because they really want to play a veteran strategic warrior that brings his knowledge of the war tactics on the table... THIS IS REALLY SAD. So, the college of swords is better of valor if you want to play a light armored bard that dance inside the battlefield like a swirl of blades, but is worse if instead you want to play a more commando, skald or battlefield Bard with medium armor and the ability to boost the allies damage and resistance! And I personally love this "paladin vibes" that the Valor Bard has despite he remains a full and complete Bard on each point of view!

[@tirionpendragon]

A lot of people usually play "better rated" classes that doesn't fit with the theme of the character just for numbers, a ridiculous example is someone that want to play a "witch hunter/monster hunter" vibe character and decides to play a echo knight or battlemaster instead to the monster hunter Ranger that is literally created for that! I could have tons of examples like this, one other is the optional features of the Ranger that doesn't fits at all with the Ranger concept of character, people takes them only because ye, you have 1d6 extra damage (but at what cost!). I will enjoy my builds and I will do my best to optimize each of them, the next will be probably the way of the four elements monk (that is CRAZY AMAZING!) but ye people says "ow it's bad, I can't abuse this subclass to make a no-sense broken character without any flavour so I won't play this!" and you shouldn't! Don't play nice Subclasses and builds you don't need them you just need math, oh and remember, your math as a player is completely useless, because the Master can easily avoid all your math just adding hp to the creature or putting an extra one on the battlefield or just killing you in every possible way if he wants, so... Good luck with your "better classes" min-maxers that are earing here! 🤗

[@veikkovuokila8012]

@@tirionpendragon I don't really think that there's anything wrong with picking a stronger subclass over an obviously weaker one if you can make it fit your character concept. I agree that the cookie cutter variant human crossbow expert/sharpshooter Battlemaster is very boring if you don't RP it well, but you can absolutely have that build and through your RP make it fit, for example, a monster hunter archetype if you want to. The flavor texts given to subclasses in the sourcebooks are really just suggestions at the end of the day. As a simple example, if you play a Bard you don't literally have to be part of a "College of Lore" or "College of Valor" or what have you, you can just be a traveling minstrel that picked their skills up during their travels, or something else entirely. Same thing with a Battlemaster, sure it's described as a skilled battlefield tactician, but with the multitude of maneuver options the subclass presents, you can make it fit pretty much any martial archetype you'd like, such as a swashbuckling duelist, a sneaky scout, etc. Forcing people to stick to the sourcebook flavor for each subclass is really quite reductive in my opinion, and limits creativity. Subclasses are just sets of abilities at the end of the day, and "min-maxing" and interesting, fleshed-out characters are not mutually exclusive. You are right though that some people just pick the strongest stuff and don't bother to make it work for their concept, and at that point I'd suggest trying to help them make the concept make sense without telling them to play a different subclass, or simply playing with different people more like-minded to yourself. All of that is not to say you shouldn't pick weaker subclasses, if you're up to the challenge of making them work! :)

[@gojicandle8188]

I made a pretty good valour bard with the purpose of getting in close, I went V-Human Warcaster with spear and shield, To be fair you COULD do this without the weapon but the extra weapon attacks were actually quite handy. Strategy was as thus. Pick a target that doesn't wanna be near you (a mage or an archer) and run up to them and make attack/s Bait them into leaving where warcaster comes in so I cast my spells/stun, (Command if i was conc on somth else or suggestion being great ones) I took bane as well which is a fairly close proximity spell. I could throw my spear as well which was nice. Picked up shieldmaster at 4th level to get a shove and my fighter loved me then. Blindness/deafness, Suggestion (very good to disarm opponents) being able to get a lesser restoration on your melee damage dealers whilst also being able to threaten concentration breaking with 2 attacks (Mage slayer was considered over shield master, But muh saving throws, Took it at lvl 8) but tbh the build REALLY comes online at 10 wth magical secrets, obviously, You can play a fairly decent gish (Though I was more of an off tank/support tbf) and then you can pick things up like haste and steel wind strike (For a surprising amount of damage) I think its less that Valour bard melee is bad, it just needs a good melee to tango with as a duo and it becomes really good at locking down and otherwise harassing targets that would otherwise be annoying or overkill for your main damage dealers to go for.

[@stevenobrien7686]

Winged Tiefling would be crazy with this.

[@serhiisemenov4206]

how do you learn spells from ranger and palladin with valor bard?

[@bulwyf2572]

If I want to play a traditional bard as an archer is Valor bard the best way to go?

[@frederikferguson2571]

To be fair the whole bo saimatic or movement spells problem can be solved quite easily with the War caster feat

[@davidc9005]

Think a fighter dip would be better on lore based bard ?

[@lucky1800]

I really want to do a red mage final fantasy character type of thing. And I though a valor bard was the best combination I could do, but I am not as sure anymore, I am very new to d&d and I just want to be usefull during the game.

[@DnD_Daily]

Depending on the table, you can be effective and useful with any character. For a Valor Bard, you can almost always be useful as a face or as a support with Bardic Inspiration. I hope you have a good time playing!

[@jesseseva2219]

Without multiclassing: T1 to T2 I think the Swords Bard does better due to Flourishes After Lvl 14 I think the Valor Bard starts to become the better spell bow

[@Pandormu]

your explanation of valor bards" power house feature" is not so simple, you gain prof with medium armor you don't get it. so the feature really reads" you gain the shield spell cast on you for the one time cost of 500-700gp" which still is weaker than any other bard feature it terms of useful ness / start up cost.

[@DnD_Daily]

I don't think you can call it weak just because of the gold cost, however, It does make sense that it may be harder to fully utilize it your DM gives out little gold

[@Pandormu]

@@DnD_Daily Its still a valid build and I love the idea of a spell archer.

[@Razdasoldier]

I prefer the swords bard archer, but I get it.

[@lmsimao77]

Even as Bardcher, I think Swords is better.

[@Stone_Orchids]

This is a suboptimal guide. You don't even talk about hexblade and you constrain yourself with a longbow

[@pugking4518]

Can your build be a Hobgoblin bladesinger

[@DnD_Daily]

Not sure what you mean. Do you mean a bladesinger spellbow? If so yes. Though very different

[@pugking4518]

@@DnD_Daily Sorry my bad what I meant is in your next video can you build be a Hobgoblin bladesinger I am thinking about playing as one in a new group

[@DnD_Daily]

Gotcha! I’ll add it to our requests list!

[@pugking4518]

@@DnD_Daily Cool I will be using the old Hobgoblin playable race because of the weapons you get my Hobgoblin PC clan was wiped out by elves so he become a bladesinger as away to use there own magic against them