Composer to Composer Talks - Carl Stone with Frank Zappa (1988)

[@nayarlopez8655]

"pretty interesting interview and worth broadcasting now" is an understatement. This is one of the best Zappa interviews available! Also, Frank's scathing critique of religious fundamentalism at 51:51 is more relevant now than ever. Miss you Frank!

[@BrainiacFingers]

I'd say this is the best Zappa interview I've ever heard. Great questions and fascinating answers.

[@paulinebutcherbird]

The problem is, he's never challenged. He got carried away at the end, painting all lawyers with one brush, for example. He himself needed to be challenged. No one ever did. They were all too frightened of him.

[@BrainiacFingers]

@@paulinebutcherbird Too be honest, the political stuff isn't what interests me about this interview. It's the stuff about music, especially when he talks about the theoretical aspects of composing, that I find interesting. It's not very often one comes across an interview in which he talks about these things, probably because not very many interviewers asked him about them, which is a shame because his harmonic vocabulary and his codification of chord structures in his "chord bible" is fascinating and unique. And his manipulation of time and rhythm is pure genius.

[@paulinebutcherbird]

@@BrainiacFingers I agree with you totally. It is wonderful to see him so relaxed and happy talking about his favourite subject - composing with someone who understood, and apparently you do too. Frankly, it was beyond my comprehension so I tend to focus on the political stuff where I can disagree with him. :-)

[@BrainiacFingers]

@@paulinebutcherbird The political stuff does interest me but it's something that I've heard in countless interviews. I agree with much of what he said in those interviews but in hindsight some of it was a bit simplistic. I mean, when he was thinking of running for president he would get asked what he intended to do if elected, and his answer always seemed to be "tax the churches and legalise drugs and prostitution" and, presumably, tax drugs and prostitution too. Really? That was it?

[@paulinebutcherbird]

@@BrainiacFingers I guess we both agree that Frank said some good and interesting things but often went to extremes as in the example you give. He told me, and in interviews, that he would get rid of income tax and raise taxes on goods. We all know this is a pipe dream, and yet no one challenged him.

[@matijakrunic7498]

superb, what a golden find! SO hard to find deeper Zappa chats on composition... i could list to 10 hours of this.

[@deepdivemusicreactions]

the best podcast you never heard in your life

[@noahellis5250]

Thank you so much for posting this interview! I agree with the comment below, definitely one of the best Zappa interviews I have ever heard. Cheers for sharing this interesting and important conversation for everyone who loves Frank's work!

[@ManicMovesDrowsyDreams]

Good interview. Just heard Jazz From Hell for the first time this morning and I thought it was a lot more accessible than most Zappa fans make it out to be. But perhaps because I grew up in the 90s enjoying music that was MIDI-driven on consoles like the N64, I found it more easily enjoyable. Take care. just as a little addendum to my comment it's nice to hear someone interviewing Zappa who knows about music and music theory and composition etc asking intelligent questions about the subject matter.

[@SamAsgari]

I identify with the N64-statement! Just wrote my thesis in composition arguing that the biases against midi and «computer music» in general stem from a fear of both lack of quality considering the accecebility of the creative tools (from an elitist standpoint) and the lack of «humanity» (whatever that means) in an electronic setting. My first memory of musical emotion goes back to 98 booting up Ocarina Of Time for the first time… Excuse my English btw, just had to comment, as I loved Your input

[@LarsLentz]

This is an excellent interview and has so much good information in it!

[@spankduncan1114]

Thanks for this posting, it's my favorite. All topics were engaging, and it's Frank, at his most intimate. 👊😎👍

[@LeadGuitarWorkshop]

This is wonderful, thank you for posting

[@powblockmaster]

Thanks for sharing this interview! I find there's little resource where Frank goes in depth, and it's a shame he didn't feel like going into the depth of how he serializes his classical works. I think you managed a good rapport with Zappa who is classically a tough interviewee.

[@paulinebutcherbird]

Yes, he was a tough interviewee and that's why no one ever challenged him. He needed to be challenged on some of his outrageous claims as here toward the end.

[@perkornhall4597]

One of the best interviews with FZ

[@jimmydonlon6762]

I'm stunned. I love a number of Carl Stone's compositions ("Banta Sreay" might be my favorite recording by anyone, ever) and had no idea he'd ever crossed paths with FZ.

[@clintstewart5545]

THANK YOU FOR SHARING !!!

[@boondoggle4820]

I absolutely love Zappa, particularly for his social satire and evisceration of common social BS in this country, but one thing that strikes me about Frank’s music listening to him talk about physics is that much of his music is more mechanical rather than emotional and most music at its core is about emotion for most listeners. I think that’s why some people I know can’t get into Zappa even though I love digging into the technical aspects of his work. The challenging and more obscure work makes for an interesting intellectual exercise.

[@Zbot665]

Wonderful insight into his approach and compositional intent. Love live Zappa!

[@javonwalker9367]

He commended and was aware of Prince. Genius recognizes Genius

[@TheCenteroftheUniverse]

The brightest lights shine across the entire landscape. So blessed to have grown up in the Zappa era. Saw him three times. Fell asleep during the guitar solo every time. What do you want? I'm a drummer. lol

[@javonwalker9367]

@@TheCenteroftheUniverse 😂

[@polishprincess8469]

Are you sure it wasn't something you were smoking? Lol How could you fall asleep to his guitar solos, that's my favorite part when he starts jamming there ain't nothing like it I absolutely love his solos. Zappa was actually the first concert I went to I was 13 years old my sister went too she was 14 years old ha ha!! Where I grew up everyone was way into him we knew all the words to the songs heck still do. I got my kids interested in him and when my oldest was taking guitar lessons he asked the instructor to teach him some Zappa then he proceeded to tell me and show me how difficult Franks guitar music was I believe it cause like I said there ain't nothing like it!

[@alienjazzmonkey]

Excellent stuff. Interviewee and interviewer well matched. "Crooks for Jesus" - love it. Frank's too early death was a loss to music, for sure, but it also deprived the world of a sane, intelligent and perceptive voice.

[@craigfazekas3923]

Music is the best- FZ 🚬😎

[@MrMusicbyMartin]

As a fan of both I had no idea they were connected, but it makes complete sense, Carl’s music is very like the max-ed out Synclavier music Frank made.

[@noturnleftunstoned72]

Damn. This was truly fascinating. Thank you!!

[@ManicMovesDrowsyDreams]

Holy hell. As someone educated in law I'm very impressed Zappa saw the problems with case law and the common law tradition. It definitely is a problem. Sorry for two comments. I just thought this one should be separate.

[@warrenwightman4413]

Brilliant interview at 57.48 frank says No ! . Says it all

[@AndyGrazianoNYC]

Found some great music in the Hovhaness and Sessions through this, and heard him praise guitarists Jeff Beck and Allan Holdsworth which is unusual, and makes sense since he used Wackerman for all those years

[@ManicMovesDrowsyDreams]

In about 1974 or 1975 he said in an interview that he likes a particular Black Sabbath album, lol. Frank often lied in interviews, I think, about not being a popular music consumer at all. I'm sure he listened LESS but he wasn't a popular music hermit either.

[@BrainiacFingers]

Zappa was pretty consistent in his praise for Jeff Beck and Alan Holdsworth. He referenced them in many interviews over the years. In one interview he said " Holdsworth is a genius at what he does". He was also consistent in his praise for Brian May's guitar playing. Those three guitarist were the one he would cite when asked which guitar players he liked.

[@AndyGrazianoNYC]

@@BrainiacFingers very true!

[@noturnleftunstoned72]

@@BrainiacFingers great info.

[@TheSteelDialga]

@@ManicMovesDrowsyDreams on Zappa's BBC DJ spot he plays a Black Sabbath song a says something roughly like, "I don't care, I still like Black Sabbath"

[@davetothebeard]

The 1st half of this is great. Best FZ interview ever. Love his talking about his writing process. Well done.

[@bonzey1171]

This is fucking great, thanks for sharing

[@paulinebutcherbird]

He should have been challenged with his outrageous statements toward the end.

[@bonzey1171]

There were a lot of times he should have been challenged and wasn't. I only enjoyed this for his perspective on being a composer in a post industrial world. I definitely disagree with some of his lifestyle choices and personal opinions, but I do enjoy his compositions. Your book was a very good read by the way, thanks for your efforts.

[@paulinebutcherbird]

@@bonzey1171 I agree with everything you say, including your comment on my book - well done for effort!

[@HarryNicNicholas]

as a crappy guitar player it's always reassuring to hear people of zappa's calibre say there is stuff he can't do. i know the feeling, i just don't have what it takes to be that great a guitar player.

[@dovic86]

not everyone has to be great as long as they enjoy what they're doing :)

[@MSTL144]

If you play you always get better, keep going!

[@timwildes8082]

Probably off topic but I always wondered what Frank thought of Steve Vai hooking up with DLR.

[@deepdivemusicreactions]

Who's the assistant he mentioned? And what happened to that Samples from Hell project?

[@MSTL144]

Who bought the sample from hell disc? Share the wealth!

[@paulinebutcherbird]

Frank talks briefly about evangelism around 42mins in. If anyone is interested in what Frank has to say on this subject in a broader context, try You Tube video Pauline Butcher interviews Frank Zappa. It is divided into five parts: parenting/evangelism/composing/Jazz Party Hats/Question to me.

[@polishprincess8469]

Thanks I'll have to check that out!

[@turretstudios9907]

i LOVED this upload. I love how archaic Frank sounds when he talks about the Synclavier G page. It's called a tracker. Did it not have a name yet?

[@mikedemike5393]

iT WAS NEW TECH

[@TheSteelDialga]

@@mikedemike5393 OK

[@paulinebutcherbird]

I would have asked Frank if he felt he would be a better composer if he'd gone to Berkeley and had a musical education like Steve Vai, for example. Imagine the answer, imagine the scowl!

[@Civilizashum]

As you know nothing of a musical education, how is it you think you understand the question? It’s BERKLEE, BTFW. are you insinuating FZ lacked the education of a Steve Vai? Ask Vai about that.

[@paulinebutcherbird]

@@Civilizashum Once again, venom turned on me personally rather than the issue. University of California, Berkeley, by the way. My comment, in case you don't know, relates to Frank's attitude toward formal education.

[@Civilizashum]

@paulinebutcherbird "rather than the issue." - which is what, you were able to come up with an imagined situation 30 yrs after FZ's demise where you troll him to get a reaction? Vai went to *Berklee* (named after founder Lawrence Berk's son, Lee Berk, by the fucking way.). UC Berkeley has nothing to do with it. I corrected you on a fact, and I guess you feel you can't have been corrected because you know better. Pro Tip: if a correction with some attitude must amount to "venom", the next move being to insult someone's intelligence (twice inside of two sentences) looks nothing but a hypocrite (compounding being factually wrong*). *: You could have googled 'Steve Vai' and found Berklee College of Music. It's in Boston, MASS by the way. Your "contribution" is impertinent, and to insert yourself (yet again) into something that's meant to be a more substantive subject was irritating to me. I don't always modify my tone, when I don't like someone. You have brightly illustrated exactly why I don't.

[@Zbot665]

18:48 Humble beginnings.

[@gepmrk]

It's odd that he didn't mention Elliot Carter as an example of a living composer that he likes. I thought he was a huge fan.

[@fryingwiththeantidote2486]

mandela effect maybe

[@RISK9000]

Well ... I thought FZ was a big fan of Ives, and he only liked just a few pieces of him.

[@jameswilkinson138]

Zappa praised Carter in other conversations.

[@lindahutchinson7485]

Really interesting🎶FZ✨

[@vvvvaaaacccc]

did Zappa ever say more about the "long story" of what parameters he proceduralized?

[@paulinebutcherbird]

If I understood the question, I might be able to answer.

[@vvvvaaaacccc]

​@@paulinebutcherbird for some context, jump to 8:38. FZ: "Yes, I do like serial music, I write serial music, it's just that I have different parameters that I'm serializing." CS: "What parameters of yours are proceduralized?" FZ: "Oh, that's a long, long, long story. To make it short, there are serial procedures that I use in my work."

[@paulinebutcherbird]

@@vvvvaaaacccc Point taken although I don't count that as a challenge, just another question along the way. More I'm concerned with Frank's views of the world than his views on music. One interviewer did do so. I can't remember exactly what outrageous claim Frank was making against some political group and the guy said, 'That's a very serious claim, Frank,' and he, on the defensive, said, 'Put it down to a crazy middle-aged man.'

[@zaratemusik]

How do you get a kanji for "wireless"?

[@hahatarachine]

I know this is an old comment, but the first character 無 (mu) means to be without. 線 (sen) is read as line or wire, making wireless

[@jebroe860]

What's great about FZ is he is not influenced by academia. He would have been kibda contaminated by teachers steerings. Berklee is great school for those who need it. FZ didn't need it. That makes his composing more authentic to him and him onlyish. Google say jt productions " "she dances in the wind" or "Zappa Beefheart "

[@sealisa1398]

What have you done? What have you tried to do? Was it worth the doing?

[@jessewoody5772]

Sounds like they are pounding the martinis. 😁

[@nikolademitri731]

This was really great, thanks for uploading it! Really, everything he talked about was fascinating, if not depressing (towards the end). No doubt, had he lived on, he’d not feel much better about the Republican Party and fundamentalists, though it does seem like they’ve lost the “culture war”, compared to the 80s, or even when I was growing up in the 90s and first half of the 2000s (not that things have all changed for the better). I’m sure his position on both major parties wouldn’t have changed very much though.. I could see him having run as a green or libertarian or some other third party, if not for president maybe for governor. I’ve always liked to think he’d have made a better governor of California than any of the other celeb governors... but enough about that crap.. While I think he’d be more disgusted on the political front, damnit do I wish he’d lived to see the internet really explode, and things like Go Fund Me, Kickstarter, and Patreon, etc, become available. I imagine he’d have definitely taken advantage of those opportunities, and definitely been able to tour without having to rely on corporate sponsorship. Maybe it wouldn’t have given him the ability to tour all the time, but at least every few years he could set something up. Then again, had he diversified his projects and made it all available through Patreon, I could easily see him as having one of the top ten Patreon accounts. No more worries about $ then! I just don’t want to believe him, that he had no interest in continuing to tour.. Oh well, sadly we’ll never know, but this was great, thanks!

[@shinybeast8946]

He'd probably be disgusted by the left and the Democratic party these days.

[@piscator57]

@@shinybeast8946 You took the words out of my mind...I do not think Frank would be amused by the wokes, although it would have given him fantastic material to work with...

[@Civilizashum]

@@shinybeast8946 FZ was vehemently anti-fascist and would absolutely despise people getting the message this wrong, and especially how you lot are led by right-wing media to be such virulent reactionaries. The Democratic Party is essentially the same centrist party today as when he lived, and liked eg., Mario Cuomo. We haven't moved left since FDR. The far right, which seem to exert undue influence over you has demonized The New Deal, so what was dead-center when I was a kid is far-leftist, and to be fought tooth-and-nail as though it's the 1930s all over again. What 'the left'? Frank was an enviromentalist. _Outrage at Valdez_ FFS. Do you imagine somehow him agreeing with your probable reaction against a Green New Deal? Your remark has no resemblance to any of FZ's views. FZ did not like _communism_ but the Dems are a long goddamned way from that. Take Frank Zappa out of your mouth, dipshit.

[@Civilizashum]

@@shinybeast8946 _This channel doesn't have any content_ says it all

[@Civilizashum]

@@piscator57 _This channel doesn't have any content_

[@anAeijingBuffoon]

You're under arrest, stay home until further notice.

[@paulinebutcherbird]

Total nonsense.

[@paulinebutcherbird]

I listened to this with equanimity until he got on to lawyers. 49.00. How absurd he is to bunch all lawyers under one umbrella.

[@joesemo]

I think in general most people have disdain for Lawyers (until you need one). He personally dealt with them on a permanent ongoing basis and must of got tired of all legal shenanigans that go one (and fees)

[@paulinebutcherbird]

@@joesemo It was his choice. He did not have to take up legal cases with so many people. I don't have disdain for lawyers.

[@Frunobulax74]

@@paulinebutcherbird - Frank did a lot of bunching over the years. He made broad assessments based on his own experiences. Gail must have absolutely loved lawyers. She spent an actual fortune on them suing everybody that tried to play Frank's music after he died.

[@paulinebutcherbird]

@@Frunobulax74 Indeed.

[@Frunobulax74]

@@paulinebutcherbird - When is your new book coming out? I truly enjoyed My Life with Frank Zappa.

[@planetzebulon21]

I’d rather hear a rusty kazoo play a nice tune than tripe played on a ‘fine violin’. Arf

[@ronj5485]

Rude language ... Oh my

[@poundfoolish8691]

Did they record this in the back of a box truck or a cave? This is fantastic though