J. Haydn - Hob VII:deest - Clarinet Concerto in B flat major

[@tomfilipiak690]

Even if Haydn did not write it, this is wonderfully classical and beautiful. Well performed as well.

[@wolfgangamadeusmozart9082]

My Friend Was Such A Great Composer :)

[@pigsbishop99]

Haydn doesn't need recommendations from any other composer. His music tells us all we need to know about his greatness.

[@Pawel_Malecki]

@@pigsbishop99 He's just repaying the favour - Haydn is well known to have said Mozart was the best composer ever born to Leopold Mozart after the premiere of K. 466 (Piano Concerto no. 20 in D minor).

[@PaulA-os9pb]

is that you on the right of picture there?

[@jfthiesen2947]

🤣 Humouros ANSWER to the DISCUSSION ❗🤣❗👍❗ 😎

[@jfthiesen2947]

Try on ❗🤣❗ 😎 Du schaffst DAS ❗🤣❗

[@banpham6468]

Although I do respect and appreciate this (unknown) composition and the performers of this work (Mr Klöcker and the Prague Chamber Orchestra) very much, I dare say that I do have my doubts concerning this attribution! The reason is quite simple: If you listen carefully to each of the original works written by Joseph Haydn, you will hear by pure instinct the difference between Haydn's acknowledged compositions and the present work regarded as sensational new discovery! But after having listened to the orchestration technique and also to the introductory line of the solo clarinet in the 1st movement, I have got the strong impression that this work cannot be attributed to Joseph Haydn for the atmosphere here is clearly beyond the typical Haydnesque style!...

[@joachim590]

I totally agree with your analysis, Ban Pham. Stylistically, this concerto is certainly not by Haydn

[@marcosPRATA918]

Stamitz, Michel Haydn, Haydn, Mozart, Reicha, Beer; todos estão aqui.

[@edwardhoward5525]

Opening sounds very like Karl Stamitz - a composer I greatly admire. Would be astonished if Haydn had anything to do with this. Nice piece though

[@jfthiesen2947]

❗👍❗❤❗👍❗ 😎

[@johnlawrence2757]

It's lovely. Why would someone who could compose this want people to think it was by someone else? Unless they were Haydn their light under a bushel of course

[@gioralamokeller8944]

I love haydn's pieces, thank you so much !

[@martinlink007]

6:03 - Mozart's first horn concerto K412, anyone?

[@marcosPRATA918]

Similaridades eram comuns na memória profunda de um estilo, o que muitas vezes trai a criatividade. Por outro lado, parece um pastiche intencional ou não de diversos autores; afinal esse concerto tem atribuição incerta a Haydn.

[@pigsbishop99]

Well the constuction here is quite simple so I wouldn't be surprised if it were by Mozart.

[@Pawel_Malecki]

​@@pigsbishop99 That could be true if you meant Leopold Mozart. Wolfgang Amadeus is kinda known for quite unpredictable repeat and development pattern in opening movements of his concerti, except of a cadenza near the end you cannot be certain of anything (Piano Concerto no. 24 in C minor for example is an absolute novelty, in the first movement soloist's theme is different than the one presented by the orchestra and neither of them is presented near the conclusion of the movement, which ends with a piano fioritura; no. 20 has the first in history fast episode in the middle of the slow movement).

[@Hadrianus01]

OMG...a direct quotation

[@michaelanzelino5068]

In deed a lovely piece of music, and I have many recordings with Dieter Blocker. I'm just a music lover from the 20th/21st centuries, and if this is a haydn work or not, I don't care. Who am I to dispute this clam. So for those who ride on their high horses, lets give Mr. Blocker props for doing his research and just enjoy the music. Though, it should be noted on the recording that until further research is done, this is attributited to Haydn.

[@jfthiesen2947]

❗👍❗❣❗👍❗😎

[@kostasampatzis9296]

It can only be a composition of a composer initiated in the elefsynian mysteries like Mozart was. It is the best clarinet concerto I have ever heard, and I believe it comes from Mozart, without his name, since it is dedicated to the elefsynian goddess Petsephone. MOST EXCELLENT COMPOSITION EVER HEARD.

[@funguy7600]

not impish enough to be Mozart. Haydn rules, Mozart drools.

[@StuartSimon]

All extant concerti that have been authenticated to be by Haydn end their initial orchestra statements firmly on the tonic, and most are followed immediately by the soloist's statement of the opening theme. I doubt that Haydn could have allowed the soloist to begin with an extravagant flourish on the dominant. That is not to mention that he seems to have held no particular regard for the clarinet, and he did not employ them at all in any orchestral work before the Symphony no. 99.

[@HenkVeenstra666]

Much of Haydns work was publiced under his name but written by lesser known composers.

[@pigsbishop99]

It's not Haydn's work then. It's true that he was so famous and revered that fraudsters did try to pass off the work of others as his. There are 50+ symphonies attributed to him that were probably not by him. However, the provenance of 99% of the works in the Hoboken catalogue is securely established.

[@jfthiesen2947]

HAYDN was a well known COMPOSER of the TIME , so also people had an interest to copy his style or to write in the style of HAYDN and sell it easier to the public ❗ Every time has it' s practic to earn M O N E Y & H O N A R ❗ 😎 ❗

[@wzdavi]

This was common practice among unscrupulous music publishers in the late 18th century. Publish a work by one composer, with a more famous name attached to it. Since copyright laws didn't exist back then, one could take advantage of a known name like Haydn. Reason? Money.

[@jfthiesen2947]

❗👍❗ To stay alive ❗👍❗❣❗👍❗

[@johnlawrence2757]

Helen cueyoung Lee Did you enjoy the music Helen? Have you even listened to it all the way through?

[@ulee594]

Stylistically early 19th century (after Haydn's death); the composition assumes knowledge of Mozart's horn concerto(s) and other better-known works.

[@hjo4104]

Yeah, the concerto is overally too modern for the so-often-mentioned Karl Stamitz, but it's also possible that several composers finished the work ...

[@HenkVeenstra666]

Its actually composed by Stamic

[@Pawel_Malecki]

How certain is that? While I agree this is certainly not Haydn's style I'm curious if we know whose work it is, it's not a bad piece! It's certainly not any of the 10 recorded by Eduard Brunner, sadly his numeration is a bit confusing (e.g. his no. 7 is labelled no. 3 everywhere else and I have no clue what his no. 3 really is).

[@Pawel_Malecki]

100% not Eybler. His concerto would have a slow introduction. I'm a huge fan of Eybler's music. Opening with a solo cadenza is unusual, how about early work by Rejcha? I don't think it's Krommer, the folk-like melodic flow of the first movement makes me think of von Winter or Kozeluch. There's also something very Danzi-esque about it. It cannot be Rosetti because all of his 5 concerti were in Eb major.

[@hjo4104]

@@Pawel_Malecki I agree for the unusualness of the cadential opening, but my opinion was based on the comparison of this concerto and Eybler's concerto in B flat major. They're structurally stunningly similar, especially their first and third movements. The use of woodwinds is almost identical in the first movements. The first bars of this concerto may sound like C. Stamitz, however, the rest of the first movement is too modern for his style.

[@Pawel_Malecki]

This piece is really a puzzle. The cadential opening is something Karol Kurpiński used to do but I remember I have one more clarinet concerto with cadential opening of the solo part, I need to check whose concerto it is. Also the fact Klöcker lists it as Haydn's makes me think it may be by one of the Haydn's pupils, just like some Eberl's works were long attributed to Mozart. Unless Klöcker actually went to forge a concerto of his own in which case I must say that would be a very creative forgery. EDIT: found it, Cartellieri's no. 1 in Bb major starts with a short solo cadential entry and it would somewhat fit stylistically. The thing is Klöcker recorded all known clarinet concerti by Cartellieri and it's none of them.

[@maxfochtmann9576]

Стиль не похоже на Гайдн. Можно Вебер иди Л. Спор. Но музыка превосходна.

[@WilfriedBerk]

Composer D. Klöcker

[@bassettoclarinetto]

It has been known for years that this is the work of J. Goettling. (See RISM). Sonja Gerlach (Haydn - Institut) wrote an article about the attributions on this disc way back in 1998. So easy to discover the truth...

[@aaronjorgefridman5662]

Será realmente de Haydn? Le falta la "chispa", la dinámica que Haydn le dio a sus obras. Salvo que esta falta de vitalidad sea por los intérpretes. Se "despierta" un poco en el 3er movimiento

[@jfthiesen2947]

Vielleicht kann der INTERPRET & Spieler D E N Funken durch SEIN S p i e l rein - bringen ❗🤣❗👍❗😎

[@Ukgejap]

Thank you for great performance of new clarinet concerto Mozart time! Bravo Herr Klöcker ! My impression is that this music isn’t German or Austrian it’s Italian composer! I have intuition of Mozart,Haydn,Stamitz music and I love and study it every day. My mind that this piece was a homage on Mozart Clarinet Concerto or some try to make a copy on great Mozart Clarinet Concerto ! Or some clarinet player Mozart’s time for enjoy just try to compose piece similar with Mozart Concerto. There is many similar places with Mozart Clarinet Concerto especially in second and third movement and I feel also in this music Italian cantabile style like in some Italian opera also opening cadenza in Beginn of piece seams influenced on Italian opera music. My answer : 1.)this is Clarinet Concerto composed by Salieri! Or 2.) it’s Concerto composed by some clarinet player Mozart’s time. Best wishes Bravo ! And Thanks for uploading! Taras Demchyshyn

[@jfthiesen2947]

We will not know it realy what about this Concerto and the circumstances about ❗ It is worth studying as an alternative to the Mozart Concerto any way ❗ jft from m

[@pigsbishop99]

The construction of this is way too simple for it to be by Joseph Haydn.

[@jfthiesen2947]

May be ❗ But it is worth to play ❗ ❗👍❗ ❗❣❗ 😎

[@PaulA-os9pb]

is that Mozart on the right of picture there?

[@jfthiesen2947]

Why do YOU think that ❓ 😎

[@arendgrijsen]

Is dit van Joseph Haydn? Ik kan dit nauwelijks geloven! Deze muziek lijkt me veel meer op een werk van een Bohemer - vooral ook de versieringen van het soloinstrument lijken niet op die van Haydn. Volgens mij is deze muziek Boheems.

[@artbugzrecords]

Not even remotely Haydn, but it could be Malzat, who also whore an oboe concerto which was attributed to Haydn...

[@kostasampatzis9296]

It must be a concerto of C.M.Weber,

[@jfthiesen2947]

❗ No ❗😎

[@fstover5208]

Haydn wrote no clarinet concertos, so it most likely isn't Haydn's.

[@musclegeek]

Nice exercise in circular reasoning. And that's even if your statement is, in fact, a premise, not an assertion.

[@fstover5208]

Conjecture aside (as per Dieter Klöcker's flawed reasoning), Haydn simply wrote no concerti for clarinet. That said, the work is either by some other composer or a transcription. No other clarinetists I know (and I am one), make the claim that this is by Haydn.

[@ThomasJCrawleyComposer]

It's Johann Haydn, his younger brother.

[@pigsbishop99]

Well yeah but that's a circular argument.

[@dav_raven]

I feel like im in 1700's

[@thomasborgsmidt9801]

That Haydn had not written anything for clarinette before no. 99 is easy to explain. Nobody could play the clarinette as it was Mozart that created the clarinette. Mozart died so prematurely that it left it to Haydn to pick up the pieces.

[@andreagriseri7656]

It doesn't seem haydn's style.

[@jfthiesen2947]

Why do YOU think so ❓ 😎