Computer Chronicles: Low End Computers (1985)

[@Joeyboots80]

Yeah, it's awesome! I grew up watching this show. Good to see it's being preserved by the youtube community. Has a lot of historical and educational value.

[@SeaJay_Oceans]

Jack ! Thanks for bringing computers to the people ! :-) You are greater than Steve Jobs, and an unsung hero of innovation.

[@CaptchaNeon]

He's not going to answer, he died in 2008.

[@maxxdahl6062]

Yeah I really liked Jack's way of thinking about computers.

[@JaredConnell]

As if he was going to answer if he were still alive? ​@@CaptchaNeon

[@sebastianhama5624]

jack tramiel really understood the pc market at the time better than literally anyone else

[@shmehfleh3115]

Tramiel completely ran both Commodore and Atari into the ground.

[@disband_thebbc5933]

​@@shmehfleh3115 He had nothing to do with commodore's demise he had left long before they're management problem's bought them down.

[@GeoNeilUK]

"Apple computers are low powered and very highly priced" still true to this day...!

[@TDGalea]

Exactly!

[@lokostill]

from 2018, They must have inspired Nintendo.

[@yornav]

And still “true for all Apple products”.

[@akfreed6949]

@@yornav Yet better than any crappy copycat Microsoft product . Microsoft makes overpriced junk like every model since the first XBox is red-ring JUNK .

[@ReasonBeing25]

​@@akfreed6949 are you ok? Were you even alive for the first Xbox?

[@arasb3258]

Thank you Jack, still in 2023.

[@raven4k998]

now make a brand new commodore 64 kid🤣🤣

[@AllGamingStarred]

This is a feast for the mind. Jack was a genius. A cheap one but a genius!

[@XalphYT]

What if Jack's assertion was true? Can you imagine an alternate history where people today would be getting all nostalgic about their NEC and Fujitsu home computers from Japan? It's mind blowing to think that this one man may have changed the face of the world's computing in the 1980s.

[@saitzo2325]

I can imagine a world where apple failed with the Ipod and disappeared, it was their last shot. No smartphones or internet as we know it, Nokia had even better ideas years before but their idiotic "what? no one will use these, stop the development of these" ended that path (they pretty much cancelled androidlike phone years before apple released Icrap).

[@BruceStephan]

It's too bad people didn't take advantage of what ATARI and Commodore offered compared to the overpriced Wintel and Apple PCs . The people missed out .

[@XalphYT]

12:41 is the timestamp, by the way.

[@calif1mc]

A cool note, the Motorola 68000 CPU's are still in production to this day!

[@raven4k998]

same for the 6502 and 65816 cpu's as well to this day it's crazy how many old cpu's are still made to this day

[@chrisl2366]

love this old show!!!!! ive watched almost eveyone of them.

[@redlinechaser7942]

Same here

[@Smakificator]

As a modern day IT pro, always wondered how I would fare under "Jack Attack". Would I be intimidated? Would I wither under his criticism? Or would I realise in time that a "Jack Attack" was really an opportunity at greatness? At promotion, and elevation in status? Jack Tramiel did many things right and many things wrong. But I would try to find the path between respect, resilience, confidence, and technical excellence. And take the gamble that bravery would pay off.

[@raven4k998]

Garys dead Jim!!!!!🤣🤣

[@The_Conspiracy_Analyst]

My friend had a system set up with a bunch of Commodore 64s set up like an internet cafe (this was before the days of consumer internet though). It was at a time where the C64 was a low end machine so he got a bunch of them cheap. He developed a special piece of hardware for the ROM slot. It was a module that had enough RAM to store software, and some control circuitry that would connect over RS-485 to a server he had in his office. So these C64s were set up to where the user could connect to the server over the standard serial connection and browse the software on the server. They could select what they wanted and it would be downloaded over the RS-485 into custom ROM slot module. Basically it was a ROM cartridge emulator. The server was an rather old Z8000 Onyx minicomputer running Unix that he got surplus for almost nothing. On that server were THOUSANDS of C64 games and software titles. He had a couple of 20 Meg hard drives on that machine. But the real cool storage device he had on there was a VCR set up as digital storage! He could fit 2 gigs per tape. That as a ton in those days! This was around 1990-1991.

[@brostenen]

It struck me. That the PR person or spokes person for Commodore. Described the future, that was to become the XP era of the 00's so perfectly. He was talking 15 to 25 years into the future, when describing a multi-function computer. The problem is, that he did not know how they would advertise the Amiga, and he seemed like he did not even believe his own words. That is truly how far ahead the Amiga was. Doing home banking, communicating digitally with remote people, making movie effects, making music and sending up space shuttle and rockets. Wow... 😮😮😮

[@sageq]

The entire interaction with Jack Tramiel (and his son) felt uncomfortable, sort of like listening to a car salesman tel you the virtues of a vehicle he's known for only 10 min.

[@oldtwins]

Jack had nothing to prove. He was already established as a success during his Commodore legacy and feared by everyone else in the market during this interview. He was right up there with Bill Gates & Steve Jobs, both of whom never appeared for an interview on Computer Chronicles. It's unfortunate that Atari never had any shining success but Jack's legacy with Commodore still lives on to this day.

[@sluggotg]

The ST was a great computer, capable of 16 colors out of 512, and High Quality mono sound, single tasking, a MIDI interface, and the GEM graphical interface, (invented and sold by they host with the beard that created the CP/M OS.). The Commodore guys were blind sided on this interview and did not even know what they had...(They had recently purchased the Hi Toro corporation, which developed the Amiga computer). The original Amiga had a palette of 4096 colors, which in specialty mode could display all 4096 colors, or in the most basic mode could display 32 out of 4096 colors or, with no overhead could also display the 64 color "Extra Half Brite Mode". (i.e. you take the 32 color palette and add an additional 32 colors that are half the brightness, very useful in CG work in general). The Amiga also had Hardware Accelerated Graphics for Animation. At that time the Apple/IBM fans complained that "Who Cares"... What like Computer Animation is the Future?? The Apple / IBM fans also created the old saying "It is just a Game Machine"... That was code for: My Apple or IBM has really shitty Graphics and or Sound Compared to your machine so therefore your machine is a toy... Ya.. So how did your Monochrome Graphics on the Mac work out, (Both Black and White Color), or the Ultra Crappy "Tweeter Speaker" for the IBM sound system work out.. Even when they went with the Adlib/Sound Blaster Sound Cards, (that cost almost the same as an Amiga computer), They had decent quality Single channel "Mono" sound... Yep that old Amiga 4 Channel Stereo sound was really in trouble). It also featured a Fully Pre-emptive Operating System. (Something the IBM would not have till the Mid 90's and the Mac would not have till after the year 2000). The Fully Pre-emptive OS is one of the most important features in any OS. At the time the Mac/IBM fans Poo-Pooed it as a "FAD". (Who would ever need to run more than one AP at a time??? What like you Think that would be handy??? The Amiga fans are sooo confused!). Not to mention User expandable ports for better CPU's and Hard Drives and Memory expansion. Jack was a Home Computer God. He got Railroaded away from Commodore. But had he remained in charge, our computing world may have been many years more advanced that it is now. Sluggo

[@si4632]

the Amiga shat all over it from a great height

[@davidbrennan5]

The Amiga was a great system when it came out but after seeing an Intel chip playing DOOM everyone sold their Amiga's and never looked back.

[@oldtwinsna8347]

Yes, Doom, and the Internet. Getting the Amiga online with a web browser that was as good as what you had on Windows was an impossibility back then. You got shit rendered on your screen which made you angry and want to put your fist to the Amiga's case no matter how much of a devoted Amiga fan you had been up to that point, especially one who spent so much money on a modern Amiga configuration, yet it was hardware inferior to a PC costing half its price.

[@thealaskan1635]

It would've been a better time for Atari if Warner didn't sell out or if when Jack Tramiel bought his share, he didn't act so cruel &gave the Amiga creators a better deal, the Amiga wouldve&shouldve been an Atari computer. Jack Tramiel offered the Amiga creators LESS than bottom dollar for the Amiga system.

[@monetize_this8330]

and I got suckered into upgrading my Atari 8-bit 256 colours and a damn sight easier to program than the ST. I could create custom displays not restricted to the three of ST, of which 2 were colour and the monochrome required a different monitor. For me, it just wasn't as accessible or flexible as the hardware in the 8 bit machines. Speed isn't as important as you're led to believe.

[@durrcodurr]

As you can see in the video, it's been the journalists that kept pushing the IBM PC (and compatibles) over everything else, which stifled technological progress for another decade, until Windows 95 came out, because they saw any other computers except Macs (which they had on their desks) and IBM PCs (which they saw as big business) as toys.

[@tightlypackedcoil]

Notice how the host pronounced it "tra-meal" before the break and then "Tra-mell" (the proper pronunciation) after the break, when Jack and his son are going to be interviewed? Apparently that was a big pet peeve of Jack Tramiel, and he probably made it a point to correct Chafeit.

[@pawprintlogic1]

If it wasn't for management, Amiga would still be around.

[@BryonLape]

Unfortunately, Jack pushed both Atari and Commodore so close to the ground the both crashed.

[@Zoomer30]

Commodore 64 was where it was at in the 80s. That was my game machine AND I used it for homework and word processing through Community College, had in from 1983 unril it died it 1993.

[@pauldavis5665]

$800 was a cheap low-end computer? Even today that would be expensive. Then when you factor in $800 in 1985 is the equivalent of over $2,000 in our money. Imagine spending over 2 grand for a low-end computer. Wow.

[@erbake]

at 18.45 some guy says: 'Apple computers are low powered and high priced' ... that still is the case.

[@maciej12345678]

Thanks for Amiga from Poland you Łódź

[@jetfrog4574]

Did Jack Tramiel just criticize a company for making "toy computers"?!

[@nayphee]

18:45 - true then as it is now.

[@jeremym9011]

I would love to try to make my own music using the SID chip, but it seems difficult.

[@NewBrunswickOutdoorLife]

3;05 Live Exotic Dancers... NUDE! Did you miss that one in the 1985 editing room?

[@Girichoko]

18:45 made-my-day!

[@RossPotts]

5:30. 1/2 mb of memory and a 64k processor for 800 bones!? Sign me up, yo! Oh gawd! I loved watching this shoe when it aired...

[@levicassidy9312]

show*

[@RossPotts]

BOOZE & METAL LOL! we are both wrong... en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_68000_series

[@RossPotts]

still. pretty good walk down memory lane!

[@RossPotts]

BOOZE & METAL go thru the wiki again. it's a 32 bit CISC chip.

[@RossPotts]

granted, there ARE multiply and divide functions that are 32+32, but 68k is a misnomer, just meaning 68000, the base naming of the chip itself.

[@TDGalea]

"Apple computers are very low powered, but very overpriced." STILL true.

[@shadowblastxtreme9032]

Thomas Galea Wont change ^^

[@nunyabiznez4408]

ShadowBlastxTreme I disagree, Apple will change, they will fail and eventually go out of business because they lost the only guy with a brain that worked there. The vortex of corporate dick-pullers that currently run apple have never had a creative thought in their lives.

[@PC-tan]

+nunya biznez do you mean that they lost their marketing genius or the other guy that was responsible for the actual creation of some of their stuff

[@nunyabiznez4408]

Manny Barajas the guy that started the company, got dismissed by the corporate dick-pullers, the guy that came back and saved the company from the incompetence of the corporate dick-pullers, the guy that drove the innovation. You see, now that the true drive and vision are no longer available, the corporate dick-pullers will do what they always do... fail.

[@PC-tan]

nunya biznez So....marketing then

[@Manacho]

18:44 Sadly still true

[@RonJohn63]

11:16 The serious flaw in his logic was that the C64 came with ROM BASIC and a programming manual, whereas I don't think that the ST did.

[@RonJohn63]

***** That's not the point. Did GfA (or any) Basic come with ROM BASIC *and* a programming manual?

[@RonJohn63]

***** Maybe I should have put 11:02 as the link. There was initially no s/w for the C64, but there was ROM BASIC. Anyone with the drive to do it could make software for it. Because the ST didn't have similar ROM BASIC, the lack of s/w couldn't be easily rectified as with the C64.

[@RonJohn63]

Ray N _GFA Basic was the first innovation of _*_folding subroutine language_*_ I think._ Do you mean "collapsing routines" in the IDE?

[@RonJohn63]

Ray N Well, 30 years ago, it *might* have been the first. I just wanted to clarify what you meant.

[@pawprintlogic1]

Amiga Rules!

[@doctorsocrates4413]

I think commodore would of lasted a lot longer under jacks leadership as he had a far superior commercial philosophy and was a very shrewd businessman...RIP jack.

[@vinnieravioli4653]

love the "Live NUDE Dancers" Poster at 3:05. Ahh the 1980's...

[@therealdefpunk]

18:43 same strategy since then

[@cliedocladidahopper3094]

the "ole farts" rule, lol Its wisdom, ruling often times over foolishness I wish I had been in a user group rural Michigan did not know computers existed

[@brostenen]

Commodore launched the VIC-20, and IBM was like. "We need to build a personal computer, because reasons and money". And today, people and especially the 15 to 35 year old ones, are correcting one, when you say that a C64 or VIC-20 is a PC. For some bizarre reason, they call it a console unless they actually know how a computer works. If so, it is always a "retro" computer to them. No sir. It is neighter a games console nor a retro computer. It is a freaking vintage PC.

[@maxxdahl6062]

Agreed, the Vic, c64, ibm's, atari 8 bit computers, apples, etc are all PC's.

[@GeoNeilUK]

@@maxxdahl6062 "Agreed, the Vic, c64, ibm's, atari 8 bit computers, apples, etc are all PC's." Only the IBM PC and its clones are PCs, the rest are all microcomputers.

[@maxxdahl6062]

@@GeoNeilUK The term PC was originally made for the C64. Considering it was Jack Tramiel who came up with the term "Personal Computer"...which he called the C64.

[@GeoNeilUK]

@@maxxdahl6062 "The term PC was originally made for the C64. Considering it was Jack Tramiel who came up with the term "Personal Computer"...which he called the C64." Wrong.

[@maxxdahl6062]

@@GeoNeilUK Right. Considering it came from his own mouth, on computer chronicles. As he didn't want his machines being marketed as mostly for "office" or "productivity" or "games", hell his famous quote was "I don't care what they do with it after they buy it."

[@JayJaytheminingguy]

the wrong company died :'( rip atari

[@Dazlidorne]

4:20 I call BS on that Okimate-10 printer producing a full color sheet at that speed! It would have taken it 5-7 mins!

[@calif1mc]

RIP Toys'R'Us :(

[@redlinechaser7942]

Long live the Commodore 64!

[@robertanderson5092]

Was that Bill Gates in the background at the Comadore user group?

[@bryanpesce1]

I like the end where in the news Apple cuts massage therapists AKA "HOOKERS".

[@aegisofhonor]

the Dictionary definition of "ruthless" should have Jack Tramiel's face next to it, the only description you need. Very few people in the technology business world were more cut throat and more ruthless in marketing hardware to outpace competitors and undercutting competitors than Jack Tramiel. Though this ruthless and overbearing approach did come to bite him in later years (and his son just didn't have that kind of temperament once Jack's health prevented him from taking more active roles by the early 90s) he was the scourge of the low-cost computing industry throughout the 80s and created many enemies in the industry, and I'm sure quite a few of his adversaries were quite happy to see Atari go under in the mid 90s after it's failures throughout that decade.

[@ryanhallyyc]

18:45 Truth.

[@Mrx2002]

+Soulier Music (Soulier) Still true to this day!

[@kccarbfree]

Excuse me... Did he say "utes?"

[@NuntiusLegis]

Youth.

[@mystica55121234]

and due to inflation, our $2000 is worth maybe $500 or less in 198x times...

[@sologals361]

One word "Amiga". The rest is history.

[@arvizturotukorfurogep6235]

+Solo Gals Yeah! The ST was lightyears better and cheaper than the Macintosh, but Atari didn't see the multimedia beast the Amiga will be.

[@sluggotg]

+Solo Gals I had to subscribe to your channel... but you look Waaay too young to be an Amiga fan! (Young and Sexy!.. Most of us fans are old!). Great stuff on your Links!!! Keep up the good work! Sluggo

[@cakestalker]

Macintosh was always an overrated and overpriced computer. Both the Amiga and Atari ST were better computers with better capabilities and more advanced operating systems. The Macintosh's operating system didn't even have a GUI in color, and didn't get that until MacOS 7 in 1991, while other operating systems like Atari ST's GEM, and Workbench\AmigaOS as well as Microsoft Windows 1.0 have had this since 1985.

[@oldtwinsna8347]

@@cakestalker Yea, MacOS was a turd until OSX, everyone knew it, even Apple hated that OS. All the money spent on the badly failed Copland project contributed to nearly bankrupting the company.

[@maxxdahl6062]

C64 is still my favorite.

[@adamszpadelek]

They do not believe in competitive market so they are bancrupt now!!!! The idea is: know your enemy, know your next step!They simply forget they wild rules. (because tramiel left the company)

[@peshozmiata]

The NES is a game system, not a home computer. It would be more fair to compare against the various japanese 8-bit MSX machines which never really caught on.

[@PC-tan]

well it was a "computer" and also even in Japan Famicom means Family Computer

[@maxxdahl6062]

It had accessories to make it more or less a computer but only in Japan. A basic cartridge, a keyboard, modem, etc.

[@GeoNeilUK]

The MSX systems were also computers, not consoles.

[@supercybercow5388]

GIS on Commodore 64 ?, well that's something already ...

[@DyoKasparov]

"TV pricing"? TVs @ my place cost ~1k min, you can get a pretty sweet low-end PC for 100-150USD, shit has changed I guess :p

[@GeoNeilUK]

"TVs @ my place cost ~1k min, you can get a pretty sweet low-end PC for 100-150USD, shit has changed I guess :p" Where exactly is your place? I can still get TVs for cheap, they're still large by 1980s standards (exactly how much did a 60" TV cost in 1985?)

[@mauryginsberg7720]

28:25 Sacrilege! :O

[@lewworthem8483]

I loved my Commodore 64. My wife, not so much.

[@uriituw]

JT referred to the Japanese as "those people" twice. Just an observation.

[@JosDewey]

uriituw You have to remember Jack Tramiel was in a Nazi concentration camp during the war and as we all know the Nazis and Japanese were allies. Also English wasn't his mother tongue and he makes many various mistakes when he speaks... and when you realize political correctness was not a thing in 1985 I don't think it's a big deal he called the Japanese those people.

[@uriituw]

@@JK-mg3bt What’s your problem?

[@_brett_7893]

Yep and the host is almost certainly wearing a toupee.

[@Goliath1337]

_ Brett _ Do you even know what a toupee looks like? Simply looks like a receding hairline on the host.

[@guitarofdestiny]

_ Brett _ it's called a comb over

[@brianm2881]

And *what* a comb-over!

[@elamd]

"assembled in Taiwan". Still hasn't changed!

[@levicassidy9312]

every game system is nothing more then a chopped down computer a lot of people say that's not true but it is

[@kevinhoward9593]

$2000 is "inexpensive"???? hell you could buy a brand new car in the 80s for $4000. There's no way i would spend $2000 on a keyboard they call a "Computer"

[@one_step_sideways]

That car would make you spend leagues more money due to the oil crisis. The PC would let you make more money instead so it was an investment. But jokes on you if you live in US suburbia which requires you to own a car to do groceries because you don't have sidewalks and crosswalks to ride your bike on to the nearest store.

[@incumbentvinyl9291]

Atari really went nowhere at this point in 1985. Those computers are very rare. It didn't take long before they were in serious financial difficulty. Too much competition and at the end of the day, IBM stole the limelight. Jack will however never be forgotten, the Commodore 64 changed the world.

[@akfreed6949]

They weren't that rare . There just wasn't as many made because nobody really bought them for lack of actually looking at them and also because of the economy .

[@incumbentvinyl9291]

@@akfreed6949 You're contradicting yourself. Get an education.

[@akfreed6949]

@@incumbentvinyl9291 look at it this way numbnuts , you're giving them crap because they didn't make something like 20 million units of something when they're having problems selling 100 thousand units ? You get an education MORON .

[@akfreed6949]

@@incumbentvinyl9291 And another thing , they made Wintel PCs and nobody bought those either .

[@GeoNeilUK]

Andy Howard such disagreeable language from such a devout Christian. As said by someone else, the NES was a games console, not a computer. When Jack was talking about "those people", he was talking about NEC and Fujitsu as well as the MSX standard (which was developed by Microsoft's Japanese arm) Commodore, Apple, Sinclair, Acorn; none of them got a toe hold in Japan at all for either the 8 bit or 16 bit lines thanks to Japanese machines, was that down to Japanese racism refusing to buy Gaijin-tech? "Those people" didn't get much of a look in on the 16 bit line outside Japan either, how many Sharp X68000 systems have you seen in America?

[@RossPotts]

Show not shoe. Stupid tablet.

[@AndyHoward]

yeah, a little racism there. Would not fly by today's standards.

[@AshtonCoolman]

Make America Great Again bro....You wrote this 3 years ago and you never could have imagined Trump would be t his close to winning an election with talk like that. Yee haw.

[@powerfulaura5166]

Shut up libtards.

[@mattiasarvidsson8522]

whats up with the hissing voice of females in the 80's?

[@jer6900]

What a boring intro