Rust vs C++

[@aniketbisht2823]

C++ is not an OOP language. Its a multi-paradigm language which lets you develop Object oriented systems. You can mix and match various paradigms to solve your problem as it seems fit. It doesn't force you to follow a certain methodology. For example : in OOP languages like Smalltalk and Java, everything is an Object which certainly not the case with C++.

[@kasufert]

If the C++ committee wanted us to do FP they wouldnt have made us type out S-T-D-Colon-Colon-Function every time we want to pass a function.

[@jasonfevang9670]

I’m mostly with you, however the standards committee is trying. Newer versions of C++ are introducing much more convenient functional-programming style features. See std::ranges and improved lambda support with the auto keyword. They can’t change older versions of C++ or remove features, so adding new features is all they can do, and they’re doing it

[@aniketbisht2823]

@@kasufert No, just use auto with appropriate invocable concept and you're all set. For E.g. : void process(std::invocable auto func) { .... } the process function takes an invocable that accepts a string_view and returns an int.

[@kasufert]

@@aniketbisht2823 C# only requires Func or Action for a function variable, or x => f(x) for a lambda. I’m not saying C++ doesn’t have those features but the syntax is quite cumbersome.

[@aniketbisht2823]

​@@kasufert That's just the standard version. You can also define your own concepts which are much more specialized and compact (less verbose). C++ lambda expressions are only slightly more verbose than C# because more things need to be accounted for like captures, template parameters, attributes etc. If you want one-liner lambda expressions, a widely used library to do that is Boost.Lambda2.

[@the-programing]

In c++, it is hard to shot yourself in the foot, but when you do you can blow your leg off. In rust, it is impossible to shot yourself in the foot, because you are forced to remove both of your legs.

[@anonymousman4419]

Lmfao, good analogy. Rust is just slept on because he can't let developers write shit code.

[@imveryhungry112]

@RustIsWinning where is rust now? Noone uses rust for anything real.

[@MakeitFast9052]

This is... Accurate.

[@RustIsWinning]

@@MakeitFast9052 it is total nonsense. The thing that lets us shoot into the foot is in a different place. If we ever need it we can use it but most of the time it is not needed.

[@RustIsWinning]

@@the-programing tell me you dont know rust without telling me you dont know rust:

[@LagFlicks]

6:45 clearly this was a secret coded message to tell us to use Go

[@stopper0203]

LOL 😂

[@albizutoday2754]

Yeap and Rust to gayness

[@SomeRandomPiggo]

C and C++ will never be replaced, in the past 30 years so many languages have risen and fallen, but C (especially) and C++ have really stood the test of time

[@KrXYT]

C++ will lose to Tha Rust Propaganda

[@dmitriidemenev5258]

Other languages simply didn't offer what C and C++ did in terms of low level control. Rust does and does it better.

[@kasufert]

The Ottoman Empire will never be replaced, in the past 500 years so many countries have risen and fallen, but the Ottomans have really stood the test of time

[@breadiusloafus5068]

I think C/C++ will be replaced when all of the children of people here watching this video die of old age or AI takes over all the programmers's jobs. But, seriously, Cobol is still being used widely.

[@plaintext7288]

​@@kasufertChina, Egypt (and others I cannot remember) have been along for thousands of years, while other countries have risen and fallen.

[@aboliguu1168]

The main reason why learning c++ is still the better option in my opinnion is that everyting serious is written in it, so you have infinite resources to learn software development straight from the source. For example, amd’s fsr3 is open source and written in c++, want to know how it works? Helps a lot if you know c++

[@skyline00069]

"Serious"? Same thing goes for rust, although I agree with your point about the "infinite resources"

[@aboliguu1168]

@@skyline00069 yeah, with the full meaning of the word ”serious”. Here are some places where C++ is the language of choise: operating systems (even though c is still used in the kernel), game engines, games (unity is the only platform place where language other than C++ builds AAA games), cars, aviation, space, ai, robotics, audio, databases, etc etc etc. Rust can do these things but C++ is still the ”industry standard” in real world and performance critical applications, so basically in everything else than webdev and enterprise code aka java. So i think that can be summarized as ”basically everything serious is written in c++”, you don’t see cars driving around with rust running in the drive computer.

[@marshpin]

@@aboliguu1168 Why do you think that is? Rust is a newer language, and it only recently started getting backed by mozilla, while C++ is a really old language that most companies have been using for years, even decades on end that wouldn't benefit from switching to Rust.

[@stefanplusplus917]

@@aboliguu1168 not yet, hihi

[@thecloudrazor]

Spot on! I also agree with you on this. It'd be better for a beginner to thorougly learn C++ first and switch to Rust afterwards.

[@the_fl3dd0x]

Respect for improving the video after constructive feedback from your viewers. This sadly isn't a matter of cause anymore on KZbin. I think it's an amazing video now. Greetings from Germany❤

[@mathieucayeux]

Thats way better ! You've improved a lot the quality of the video compared to the old one ! You took reasonable arguments from boths sides and it seems alltogether way less biased. Bravo !

[@NotherPleb]

Of all the points, I cannot agree that C++ is a better option for larger scale applications. When there are multiple people working on a project, it's so hard to keep track of reference lifetimes or multithreaded safety, and that's where Rust absolutely shines - it will hold your hand and tell you that your code is unsafe without digging into other people's code.

[@Инструктор-д1г]

Agree

[@SuppressedOfficial]

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing when I heard that part.

[@anonymousman4419]

@@NotherPleb Rust brings the frustration of runtime problems into compile time.

[@Gandhi_Physique]

@@anonymousman4419 What do you mean by this?

[@greyshopleskin2315]

@@Gandhi_Physiqueincorrect memory management can lead to several kinds of problems at runtime, and some can be hard to debug. However with rust, you always have correct memory management. If you don’t follow the rules of the borrow checker, the compiler will give errors and won’t compile. So you have to deal with errors at compile time (which is easier) instead of dealing with errors at runtime

[@Josh-kw7zk]

4:19 The java virtual machine sometimes it's kinda wild lmao.

[@maervo4179]

Actually it is really fast, in most cases even faster than code in c++ because the c++ developer has no clue what he is doing 😂🤣

[@F_Around_and_find_out]

It helps if one know C and C++, so he can read the libraries written in C and C++. And there is Zig which is designed to work with C, safer and more straightforward than C. It’s still in its infancy but the ability to just work with existing C libraries, that is powerful.

[@CakeOnBake]

0:18 Didn't jesus use holy C?

[@DumbledoreMcCracken]

Yes, after he turned Assembly into C, in order to feed the masses.

[@outbackigloo6489]

I thought Jesus wrote in COBOL.

[@rtfmmycompany4498]

Jesus use TempleOS

[@henrycgs]

I'm pretty sure jesus only wrote in hebrew

[@outbackigloo6489]

@@henrycgs - Or Aramaic.

[@mirekcerny2081]

Whichever you pick, be sure to subtract 'fad factor' from Rust. Rust is 'cool' because it is new; but it is not going to be new forever. When Java came about, its proponents boasted the same way - that it is going to kill C++, removing those pesky C++ memory leaks once and for all etc. We all know how it ended up.

[@cultoftranquility9616]

Lockheed Martins F-35 runs on and uses C++ There are hundreds of thousands of jobs within C++

[@ProfShibe]

I love C++ because I know it contributes to more deaths annually than natural disasters

[@DumbledoreMcCracken]

God, I hope all memory is static.

[@Skmei6]

Boeing too uses C++, thought yo let you know what is memory unsafe beings is like

[@matthewb192]

Weird for that because I know for certain that the most important pieces of software are written using Ada because of it's safety.

[@cultoftranquility9616]

@@matthewb192 Absolutely, I think you are right about ADA. And tts often used together with/complementing C++ ...

[@exoticlol]

I love how you remade the video. Btw, I was in your drunk VC, but I was troublehsooting an issue with my mic, so I couldn't talk. Edit: Remember when you were making something, and it wouldn't work, so you had to make a new project and start over? The problem was with your 'debug' script, it was attempting to run "/src/index.js" but you didn't have an src folder.

[@conaticus]

Yeah I was way too drunk to be socialising or programming 😂

[@aniketbisht2823]

Problem with Rust for writing low level code is that, not only you have to jump through several hoops to do what you want (get desired assembly with zero extra overhead) but the resulting code is very unreadable and also difficult to change. Readability and the ability to quickly change/iterate through multiple implementation strategies (with their own trade-offs) is crucial for writing performant low-level code. The language also enforce various runtime checks (which cannot be disabled at runtime like C++ asserts), so even if you strive hard to write correct code by using formal methods, testing it religiously etc, you would still be paying for them at the runtime or your code would be littered with unsafe blocks (which defeats the whole purpose while also making you code less readable).

[@irrelevantgaymer6195]

You do not understand unsafe in Rust. Unsafe does not defeat the purpose of rust’s memory safety. All of Rust’s smart pointers use unsafe under the hood. The idea of unsafe is to write code where you handle “unsafe” operations and wrap it in a safe way so that when you call the function or block, the user can use it safely. By itself, you can’t do memory unsafe things with Box or RefCell or Rc because the “unsafeness” was abstracted away. Also readability is subjective and a function of experience. If you code a lot in a language, idiomatic solutions are very readable to you in that language.

[@aniketbisht2823]

​@@irrelevantgaymer6195 I never said unsafe Rust defeat the purpose of Rust's memory safety. In fact, that's the whole point I am making, unsafe Rust is tedious. If you want performance you have to write low-level code catered to your specific needs and then wrap it in nice zero-cost abstractions for application programmers to use and make it generic without giving up functionality or performance. Both C++ and Rust have good feature for providing abstractions (C++ even more so). But when it comes to writing low-level code, in Rust you have to jump through several hoops which makes it tedious to write whereas in case of C++ it's just C which is just simple as it gets. When you are solving a hard low level problem, things should be as hard as they fundamentally hard not more. Rust gets in your way (even while writing unsafe Rust) and makes it harder and more complex than it needs to be.

[@Heater-v1.0.0]

On discovering Rust and evaluating it for up and coming projects I rewrote quite a few of my not so big C/C++ projects and libs into Rust. Performance turned out to be similar, sometimes slower sometimes faster. No, I did not use "unsafe" anywhere. As for those run time checks. There is only array bounds checks as far as I know. Oh and arithmetic overflow checks in debug builds. Often they are optimised away by virtue of the compiler having more information about what your code does. Often they are a vanishingly small part of execution time. Either way they seem to have negligible effect on performance. I have lots of number crunching code that operates on arrays to demo that. So no, there is no problem with Rust for writing low level code. You are only speculating that having not tried it or measured it.

[@eypandabear7483]

@@irrelevantgaymer6195the “unsafe” keyword in Rust is terribly misnamed. It doesn’t mean the code is unsafe, it means you declare to the compiler that you have manually checked the block’s safety.

[@irrelevantgaymer6195]

@@eypandabear7483 I don’t think it’s misnamed, but it is a bad name. I think the name itself leads people to use unsafe when it’s the best solution to the problem.

[@CoolDude911]

I found that learning Rust improved my code and make a flatter hierachy, more straight forward memory usage ect. Most business people don't care about the details of the language, they will just use C++ or Javascript because the ecosystems allow a lot of people to do it.

[@virusblitz]

Nice! The video truly is much better after the remake, thanks for owning up to your mistakes and handeling critisism so well :)

[@djryanashton]

1:38 this is not particularly strange or unique to Rust. Swift and Objective-C have Automatic Reference Counting which similarly deallocates when the last reference is dropped.

[@HyperFocusMarshmallow]

4:45 “a lot of people enjoy this approach”, referring to “doing more work to link packages correctly”. Is this a serious argument that I’m not getting. Is there some example of a benefit? I do get that for someone who knows that approach it is just a part of life, but would you recommend that to someone picking up programming tomorrow?

[@guilherme5094]

Bjarne Stroustrup's sacred word has already been written, many false prophets have already tried to kill his message, and many will still try, but C++ resists! (This is just a joke guys, but yes, C++ is still better option).

[@kulkalkul]

There are no "better" tools, there are trade-offs. Some tools are better in some jobs than others.

[@shabadrandhawa3829]

@@kulkalkul I agree.Use rust where it makes sense and use c++ where it makes sense.Same for any other language.

[@NoSpeechForTheDumb]

IMO C++ is the one big exception to this golden rule because it was deliberately not designed to be specific to anything. Rather the opposite, it's a jack of all trades and a master of nothing so for virtually every specific task there's a better tool. C++'s luck was that it came early and that many projects are not very specific to begin with. LOL

[@hanuk3283]

​@@RustIsWinningkid wakeup.

[@hanuk3283]

@@RustIsWinning you did what?

[@diadetediotedio6918]

Just use whatever you want, I don't think it ever had any point on this discussions. Obviously it does not mean the discussions in are pointless, in fact it is pretty needed because security in software development, but for most people this does not matter most of the time. You should engage in these discussions when you are actually planning on making something that can affect peoples lives if it fails, and discuss why it is not more justified to use a language that is built to be safe instead of one associated with unsafety. People have good points on both sides, like static analyzers and the dont's of static analyzers, but the discussion does not make sense if you are making a game or a simple software, chill and make it wether in Rust or C++ or really anything at all.

[@AK-vx4dy]

2:11 It is explained in Rust docs, it is nature of reference counted smart pointers, especially in connection with pointers designed to be out of borrow-checker control by design (RefCell) , it is well explained how to avoid this or use Weak if you need cycles. This only not freeing memory, technicaly it is leak (leaving less memory) but it could only lead to DoS. This example is unfair, because it causes stack overflow but it happens because println! macro don't handle cycles of this kinds well and loops. And many languages with such power (.toJSON ) have the same problem, because it is not simple or costless to avoid it.

[@kulkalkul]

Amethyst is long dead, bevy holds the torch (and fyrox ofc, though its community is way small compared to bevy even though codebases are in similar size). There are lots of small frameworks or engine agnostic libraries that one can use for their own framework.

[@SamualN]

0:24 well it's **nearly** a superset

[@aerosoftware]

If you want to be a true backend developer, master both languages, C++ (especially latest standard) and Rust.

[@reilwaystation4372]

Too many language just choose one

[@reilwaystation4372]

@@RustIsWinning doesn't necessarily many but whatever the job demands isn't?

[@hanuk3283]

​​@@RustIsWinningbeginner mentality. skilled developer knows how to write safe code in any language.

[@dschledermann]

Rust has a distinctly high-end-ish feel to it, while at the same time producing very safe and very fast binaries. What's not to like?

[@yurhomi4478]

I’ll be using both as well as C.

[@madhavgoyal6093]

This video got uploaded just when I needed it

[@panos21sonic]

The "use neither because theyre both a shitting mindfuck" part took me out, I did not expect that...

[@ulrich-tonmoy]

Currently Rust would be best choice for servers where you cant/dont want to use gc lang else C++ specially For game dev C++ is the overlord for highend graphics

[@kphuts815]

Why is c++ so good for high end graphics? I'm looking into making an engine in my free time and I'm trying to decide between c++ or rust

[@ulrich-tonmoy]

@@kphuts815 both are good but c++ is standard for game dev industry and theres 2 rust game engine bevy and frox they are not as popular as other engine so i would say c++ is the safe choice

[@anonymousman4419]

@@kphuts815 Because the of the large code base written in C++ (and in CUDA C++ if you're using Nvidia), otherwise you have to be a very good developer if you want to use Rust.

[@hamzarashid7579]

C++ Countless features. You got me there

[@gast128]

With modern C++ you also have pretty much safe code but it isn't enforced by the compiler. C++ only lacks an extended standard library which is its biggest drawback compared to other environments (e.g. Java; C#).

[@AK-vx4dy]

3:11 Yes it is now Option type in C++ but not have such power ;)

[@obiaboimmanuel8729]

For more clarifications please, Rust was announced 2010 and got stabled 2015

[@MrAbrazildo]

6:38, to me, if I have flexibility, I have everything! (theoretically)

[@talha_coding_tutor]

"C++ makes it easier to blow off your legs, Rust makes it harder and dangerous, when you do the shell(bomb) bounces back , penetrates through and stays in head for a while and then BOOM ! "

[@henrycgs]

this analogy makes no sense c++ makes it easier to shoot yourself in the foot. rust has kept the gun in a locker and is not fond of playing with firearms.

[@talha_coding_tutor]

@henrycgs this analogy only does not make sense when it is regardedly compared with the memory safety features but what I'm trying to say about is due to the language complexity and the learning curve the steep learning curve

[@ltecheroffical]

For the bindings, you can get it to work by adding a C api in your library with `extern "C"` and rust can link that. Also is it just me or is the script somewhat ChatGPT generated, I hear some common words ChatGPT uses.

[@whoopsimsorry2546]

Thank you for getting it right this time. I respect that.

[@remboldt03]

"Control over memory" for me only means "freedom to write more bugs"

[@LinuxPlayer9]

real

[@personator]

tbf if you don't need control over memory there's not much reason to use c++ or rust

[@remboldt03]

@@personator I don't need full control over memory. That's why I prefer Rust over C. Rust is memory safe without relying on a garbage collector

[@rtfmmycompany4498]

​@@remboldt03ffs Java is relatively memory safe and have garbage collector and can be fast...still most people hate Java...I like to be able to do whatever I want and that's why I prefer C and Perl do it your way...not right way...and let be honest Rust makes it difficult to write unsafe code but not impossible..if u are dumb language doesn't help

[@ХузинТимур]

@@rtfmmycompany4498 Java has bad ergonomics and Java developers love bad design patterns (e.g. Dependency injection or abstract factory). This makes writing Java frustrating and causes such extreme dislike of it in a community. And JVM is memory hungry.

[@adam_duda]

"In fact jesus himself used c++ whitch is probably the reason why he was crus-" that really got me 💀

[@yarpen26]

You could say that he... ...nailed it.

[@adam_duda]

@@yarpen26 bro...

[@MohammadAhmad-rw6in]

Bro that literally made me spit out water

[@jigsaw2253]

Lame

[@rouxgreasus]

That was wild as a Christian 💀

[@ar_chbtw]

Ownership does not focus on preventing memory leaks: it focuses on other stuff, like different kinds of segfaults.

[@ggtooez]

Which language to learn? Both, if you have the time. They are really not that different. Once I rewrote quite a complicated project from Rust to C++ in 4 days. Which language to use? Depends on the use case, and what coding style you're most comfortable with. You glossed other linking and library management, also cross-platform development. Rust makes it trivial to develop for (and on) several platforms with nearly no extra effort. I write something on Linux for days, and then it just compiles on my Windows machine no problem.

[@matthewb192]

The build systems and dependency management is something that I hate with C++. Rust just makes it so easy.

[@idedary]

Learning C++ in 2024 is like learning Latin. You need to know it to work on existing projects and get a job. Learning Rust is for starting new generation of applications. Rust is objectively better than C++ in my opinion even though people say they have less freedom because of oppressing borrow checker. My counter argument to that is that it is just a strict mentor who forbids "bad" practices. I become a better programmer in the last 2 years of using Rust than I would have become in 20 years of not using it. It also makes collaboration more practical as you don't need to decipher your colleagues code, because it's "relatively" the same due to the rules. I see only benefits here.

[@LaysarOwO]

agree with most point but "objectively better in my opinion" is just not it

[@dad8102]

But but but it’s slower 😢

[@DumbledoreMcCracken]

"would have become" , not became. People, who didn't learn the rules of grammar, cannot be trusted to pay attention to details when coding. That is my, empirically based, experience.

[@RustIsWinning]

​@@DumbledoreMcCrackenok, says, the, guy, who, uses, , everywhere,

[@DumbledoreMcCracken]

@@RustIsWinning exactly, you've proven my point to a T. My expectation is that you were "educated" in Alabama.

[@MasterA6858]

The syntax alone of Rust is insanely horrible, if you just want general purpose, just go with C. It's simple, plain and efficient.

[@iliketoast-q9b]

C is far from simple when you actually use it. You really need to know what you're doing and if you struggle with syntax already, you probably don't.

[@MasterA6858]

@ lolz, are you high or what

[@henrycgs]

typical comment of someone who has little to no experience with rust. honest to god it's one of the cleanest and most elegant syntaxes I've ever seen and several languages are copying many of its features, even big guys like C#.

[@henrik908]

​@@henrycgsfemboy you know nothing about c.

[@comalab2387]

i think its lovely of you to acknowledge that c++, a language thats been used excessively for 40 years, is "fully capable" :')

[@yep9817]

The problem with C++ is people who say they know it, dont know it enough to write a code faster than Rust, even though language itself allows it. C++ is gonna be the next Assembly

[@saadmuhammad3119]

Forget C++ or Rust just learn C.

[@48_subhambanerjee22]

If you know c++... You can easily learn c

[@sankalppatidar4975]

forget C learn assembly

[@TannerJ07]

@@sankalppatidar4975 Assembly? Real programmers use pure binary

[@GameStudio_Uz]

@@sankalppatidar4975 forget all language and back to the stone age

[@KanashimiMusic]

I had this exact mindset for quite a while, however, since I'm mainly coming from object oriented languages like Java and C#, I always felt like C's type system was lacking some things. Mind you, I'm not one of those people who think OOP is the solution to everything and bloat their program with an excessive amount of classes for things that don't really need them. I like the simplicity that C's type system has, but for me personally, I think it's just missing some things. I was hoping that C++ would solve that problem for me, but the moment I tried to make a simple C struct and C++ literally prevented me from doing very basic things with it that are possible in C, I dropped the language immediately and went back to C. Then I decided to give Rust a shot, and imo it's a perfect middle ground. Its type system allows for very simple things in the way C does (if you just want a small, basic struct that you want to be able to copy around, just give it the Copy trait and the borrow checker will leave you alone, SOMETHING THAT EVEN C++ WAS NOT CAPABLE OF FOR ME), but also has more advanced features like Traits (which are similar to interfaces). Tagged unions are also a built-in feature (kinda misleadingly named "enums", though they CAN be used as regular enums as well) which is really powerful.

[@AK-vx4dy]

I only add that other powers of Rust are: macros [sane] - super power to skip so much boilerplate without compiler behind scene magic , strong and robust type system which let you shield not only from memory errors but some logical errors by next programmers which have to work with your code ;)

[@4wb]

i already watched this didnt i

[@adam_duda]

Me too...

[@tabbytobias2167]

same :|

[@j0of]

pretty sure this is a reupload, not sure why tho

[@Kventis]

Yeah, its a re-visit with improved points

[@i6Hx]

The Jesus frame got removed

[@mage3690]

WYM, that's a perfectly legible linker error. Your function or whatever with the long-ass name in the ViewController file tried to access a variable or function declared extern within ViewController but not defined by any files provided to the linker. Or, to put it another way, that long-ass name wants some shit the linker don't know where's at.

[@tabbytobias2167]

y not just do what nim did? (but without indentation cuz screw that) make high level code compile to c++, and add option to write c++ for control. 🤔

[@Boghost1430]

I'm still a student but I want to work in robotics and AI, which one would you recommend me ?

[@damolaomoniyi5145]

C++ and python

[@Boghost1430]

@@damolaomoniyi5145 Ok thanks

[@henrik908]

​@@Boghost1430zig and C

[@haliszekeriyaozkok4851]

It's a very good summary for all languages. Rust is way more better in my case because it's more easy to setup and deploy, that things in c++ is a nightmare.

[@magnusm4]

Since computers them selves think in ECS form, hence why ECS is faster than OOP. Then why not design a language around the system's native form even if it's not as human friendly?

[@FULLTILTSWIFF]

do it yourself if you want thing's get done, sadly im not that good at CS to start such a project, good point

[@iTube4U]

this script is 98% chat gpt generated, specially the c gives fine-grained access part

[@siman211]

any video courses you can recommend for c++? for beginners?

[@DigitalCanineGames_]

there's tons, just type C++ tutorial for beginners on youtube and you'll find a 10 hr long tutorial

[@casey360360]

Rust seems like it’s certainly moving towards being the most in demand language for employment.

[@toby9999]

Rust is not developer friendly. It is a nightmare to learn and use. I've learned and used dozens of languages over the past 40 years, and rust is by far the most difficult I've encountered. It's way more difficult than C++, and the syntax sucks. I've just completed a small benchmark based on the prime sieve... C++ vs rust. Both using the same approach. Results: execution time for primes to 10,000,000,000 (code optimised for speed. CPU i7 12700) MSVC C++: 27 sec (MFC GUI App) Clang/LLVM C++: 30 sec (MFC GUI App) MSVC C: 25 sec (terminal) Rust: 29 sec (terminal) The C++ implementation is a few hours work. Converting to rust, about 2 days' work. And for all of the MS bashing, MSVC came out on top, though not by much. This was just a fun exercise. I wouldn't read much into these figures, but I did expect rust to outperform.

[@RustIsWinning]

Holy 40 years!! Maybe it's time to retire? Dont worry. We non-boomers are improving the world 😊

[@user-to4iq4bq9g]

Rust is for long run and efficient performance, not the speed.

[@placer5206]

did you use the --release tag? because if you didn't the compiler lets a lot of optimization out

[@antifa_communist]

I had no problem learning Rust at 17 with about one year and three months of experience with JS and PHP. I had way less experience and only in dynamically typed languages. And I had barely any issues. It's my go to language for everything now, even scripting. So this is definitely not Rust's issue.

[@henrycgs]

> programming for over 40 years > finds it difficult to use a language that is unlike anything that came prior who could have thought.

[@AdamJMichaels2010]

0:16 jesus actually used holyc

[@H3cJP]

6:29 would had been funny if you ended there

[@conaticus]

after hours of editing it was very tempting 😂

[@joebulfer]

C++ is NOT a superset of C. It evolved into it's own language over time. Typescript is a superset of Javascript because all Javascript compiles/interprets/runs/whatever to Typescript. Writing C in C++ codebases does not compile and vice versa. Edit: This one point grabbed my attention. Otherwise it's a decent video, but I could have read straight from the wikipedia page, as you clearly have yourself.

[@bogdannn846]

Traits are unique to the language - not really. Haskell and Scala have them too, probably others as well

[@florianlang9266]

It can be a funny video to try the QUICK protocol. I don’t have a idea what project you can do. But I think it’s interesting

[@nerdastics3987]

c++ while annoying is rewarding and challenging. Other languages, well.... is easy >= aneurysm? but also c++ is probably the most flexible language there is.

[@nerdastics3987]

@@RustIsWinning but that's part of the fun!

[@mazazaza11]

​@@RustIsWinningmore like a skill issue, cope neo rust liberal

[@RustIsWinning]

@@mazazaza11 Found the EdgelordZoomer LOL

[@mazazaza11]

@@RustIsWinning said by the mossad funded bot

[@ninjaasmoke]

my problem with rust is i feel like im being force fed good food. ik its for my own good, i just don’t like it.

[@adam_duda]

C++ team:

[@evandrofilipe1526]

0:41 TRAITS ARE NOT UNIQUE TO RUST Anyway, continue

[@zactron1997]

If I'm working alone, maybe I'd prefer C++ if I was more experienced with it. But working in a team? Rust hands down. No matter how talented the people you work with are, eventually someone will screw up, and the amount they screw up is only limited by the tools they use. In C++, your ability to stumble into a catastrophic design flaw is substantially higher than in Rust. The worst case scenario in Rust is a slow piece of code, or something that refuses to compile. I'll take that over an accidental Heartbleed any day of the week. It's not the 90's anymore, your little video transcoding library that doesn't need to be memory safe is now a pivotal piece of software running every video website on Earth. The consequences of insecure code are so much greater than they ever were. Honestly no different than speed limits. Sure, *you* might think you're able to drive faster than the limit safely, and emergency vehicles get to be an exception, but that doesn't change the fact that speeding kills.

[@danwellington3571]

Something I will always hold over every other language is that both the Linux kernel and Tor have adopted Rust Both are projects that have to be perfect because if they aren't then people die Until Linux adopts a third language and/or ditches Rust, I'm gonna be a smug bitch about it

[@hydradragonantivirus]

I developing an ClamAV community project on C/C++ instead of Rust.

[@cron3x]

What are your thougts on Zig, is it worth learning?

[@ok-alarm]

imo, learn it, then you would know if its really worth it.. but if you're choosing what to learn first, I'd say: C ➡ C++ ➡ Rust ➡ Go ➡ Zig

[@antoine8611]

Every language is worth learning if it really is the best choice for a project, even if only for learning different ways code can be written. If you already know languages that allow you to get work done, I suggest spending time mastering those instead of learning another you might never use. I would also advise you to ask about Zig to Zig experts, not Rust ones haha.

[@HoloTheDrunk]

@@ok-alarm I was told before learning Rust that "if you know Rust, you don't really have a reason to use Go" by a friend who learned and used Go for years before learning Rust, so I'm not entirely convinced

[@ok-alarm]

@@HoloTheDrunk well thats really up to, on my case, I also know rust first but there are few jobs open for rust than Go, so I learned Go for my full time job then rust for my personal projects and building up my portfolio for future rust jobs.

[@antifa_communist]

​@@HoloTheDrunk I don't know much Go. If you know Rust, what benefits does Go have?

[@prawnydagrate]

didnt this video come out like 2 weeks ago

[@RafaelMilewski]

Rust is superior, but just a note C++ is not a superset of c for a long time...

[@egg-mv7ef]

rust is very much not superior

[@RafaelMilewski]

What is superior than rust for you?

[@naterupard552]

normally i’d it’s impossible to “kill” a language, but it really does seem like the Rust community is hellbent on killing C++. I’ve tried learning C++ three times (i’m still a novice) and the first two times i just got an instant headache, even after learning Java.

[@devon9374]

Damn lol, what gave you the headache?

[@rishavgaming8662]

In my opinion c++ should improve on error detected with g++ and gcc complier and c++ should include most optimise code in c++23 such math_23 something like that

[@7A7z]

hmm what if i learn both what should i do first ?

[@Инструктор-д1г]

You can learn both at the same time. They are pretty similar imo

[@7A7z]

@@Инструктор-д1г sir yes sir

[@anonymousman4419]

C++, Rust coding intuitions don't carry over well to classic programming languages (e.g. C/C++, python, Java)

[@andreaselfving2787]

Can't wait for cpp match expressions and typed enums. When they are implemented, I'll probably stop using Rust altogether.. There are even some ongoing work in a cpp borrow-checker. Also, using cpp for historically object-oriented implementations are considered old-school and pure interfaces ( Rust Traits) are used instead. There are some caveats that you must know in cpp, which isn't ever any problem in Rust, though. cpp23 and cpp26 really isn't the same language as cpp11 (or cpp98), which seems to be the version must Rust devs using when they bash cpp. This is a problem in itself - there are too many ways of doing the same thing in cpp. To keep up, you really need to make an effort every new release (Professional cpp Linux and embedded systems developer, dipping his toes into Rust - though I prefer using go wherever i use Rust right now)

[@knnk4000]

"once c++ copies the essence of rust, i will move to c++" great point c++tard

[@RustIsWinning]

Damn this guy is clueless deluxe 😂

[@scratchoffticket1]

Which computing languages should i learn to be a pro in cyber security and cloud hacking?

[@skorp5677]

Security is a field for which you need years of experience. There are no languages one can learn to easily be proficient. It would be C and probably some bash though.

[@kerojey4442]

Learn how assembly work and maybe some C

[@zekiz774]

It doesn't really matter with which language you start.

[@laffta6727]

nikkiinit KZbinr says learn python, linux and sql--cyber mentor KZbinr says to learn javascript and python--hmmm good luck

[@alurma]

First of all, thanks for improving the video. It's still misleading in many ways though. > C++ is object oriented C++ is multiparadigm. > Rust uses trait system which is unique to the language It's not unique to the language. E.g. Haskell type classes are similar to traits. > Rust effective at preventing memory leaks I don't see how Rust helps against memory leaks how C++ doesn't. > .clone overuse C++ is no different > C++ is also known for great backwards compatibility Rust is the same with editions. > Rust has good interop with C C++ is the same. It's true that Rust can't easily interop with C++, which is a good point.

[@thepigcat76]

Tbh traits are not entirely unique to rust. They are pretty much interfaces from java/c#/go with fancy typing on top

[@v01d_r34l1ty]

Technically speaking, you can create interfaces in C++ too with virtual abstract member functions.

[@diadetediotedio6918]

Nah, not exactly. They are closer to type classes than to interfaces, at least if you consider interfaces as they where originally designed in Java/C#.

[@phoneywheeze]

even php has traits

[@crimsonmegumin]

Rust Traits are way more powerful. You can impl a trait for a external type, you can impl a trait for a generic, you can add specific constraints for a impl, you can have associated constants, you can have associated types, you can have generics in associated types, you can have constraints in associated types. If I would pick an example, it would be Haskell's classes, though I'm not sure if it has all Traits' features (you can have HKT in Traits, but it's syntax is kind of weird and there is not std Trait for that)

[@nossir]

Any resources for me to learn rust? I've been youtubing but the ones i found are a million hours long (i don't have that time unfortunately and i need to make a compiler and i really want to use it and not C) with... a HUGE LOT of info, talk about spending more than 7 minutes explaining what data types are on a PowerPoint presentation instead of teaching how things work on the surface and leave me to search on my own (which i find more productive to me)

[@X3n1al]

the book is the best resource (search "rust the book")

[@AvidiaNirvana]

I'm new to this, what exactly do you mean by memory safety issues? Can the code damage your RAM or ROM?

[@mikedesanta4612]

A simple app can take gigabytes of RAM, if bad coded.

[@Heater-v1.0.0]

I suggest you spend a decade working in C and C++. Or even assembly language. Then you will understand what memory safety is all about and which you had not wasted a decade of your life.

[@kulkalkul]

@mikedesanta4612, @toparamennoodles9652 What you are describing is "memory leak", which is a memory bug, but less impactful in sense of "safety". Memory leaks can cause OS to shut your program or cause DDOS attacks, using your server's resources; but that's the limit of damage they can do. On the other hand, there are other memory related bugs that have much serious issues. Like accessing a donkey expecting a whale, trying to get 21. donkey out of 20 donkeys, trying to ride a donkey that is already being riden or trying to ride non-existent donkey. These are dangerous because they can corrupt data, or worst, cause remote code execution.

[@janisir4529]

Accessing memory you are not supposed to, and leaking memory by not freeing manual allocations.

[@Kventis]

The impossible match-up

[@minneelyyyy]

traits are not unique to rust im upset and angry >:(

[@darkmagic543]

Wait what Rust being the best choice for general purpose programming with its few areas where it is used?

[@conaticus]

While it has a smaller community, it is still used in a wide range of areas. I didn't list all of them but only the most common.

[@HoloTheDrunk]

Having used Rust in a variety of both professional and hobby contexts over the years (e.g. web servers, an OpenGL-based game engine, games, TUI applications, HPC, etc...), it's really nice for most things in my experience yes.

[@darkmagic543]

@@conaticusI don't know, based on the job market, rust has use cases in 2 areas: Crypto and networking (Servers, services, APIs). I am not sure if you mean by general purpose programming that you tachnically can use it for anything - then yes, but you could say the same thing about Java, but in reality neither of these languages are really used in that wide range of areas.

[@zekiz774]

​@@darkmagic543I'm not into programming for the money so I don't care. Also Rust is in the Linux Kernel and Microsoft is slowly rewriting parts of Windows in Rust. Also new Android features mostly utilize Rust.

[@darkmagic543]

​@@zekiz774 It's not about the money but what is actually used in the industry. Sure, these companies may use it for some parts of their OS (although I don't know about Microsoft), but that is not really what one can realistically expect to get into and it is rather a minority. I think that was one of its intended use cases - writing operating systems and web browsers before it went sideways, so if you are creating something in that area it may be a decent pick

[@arta6183]

traits are not unique to rust; they also exist in Haskell... Haskell works exactly the same way as rust.

[@BGDMusic]

c++ is good and rust is also good and i like both but i like c++ slightly more because i am more familiar with it

[@firdauszainudin7118]

C is basically Eminem/50cent of Programming world, many new gen try cancel them, but fail

[@Norstator]

I want to believe the Rust hype but it is not easy.

[@samansamani4477]

"unless you are looking for a job"... Stop bullying us man ☹️

[@Erarnitox]

I feel like Rust is just C++ where you limit yourself to only use unique pointers for anything that is heap / dynamically allocated. Is that far off?

[@irrelevantgaymer6195]

Rust also has references which is what you use most of the time. Smart pointers allow you to essentially create a reference with added functionality, sometimes that added functionality is allocating the data on the heap. You would use smart pointers for the same reasons you’d use them in C++, to abstract away some of the memory handling to make it easier to reason about your code. And there is more to rust, so you’re not far off, just wholly incomplete

[@roiqk]

Ive already seen this vid????

[@МаксимСоколов-д4я]

Short answer: C++

[@RustIsWinning]

Long answer: Rust

[@TheSeiris]

The only realistic benefits to pull developers to rust was supposedly faster build time. In fact, c++ build time is said to be generally faster, which is already strike out. If c++ 20’s module system works out and unfolds greatly, I think theres no hope for rust in future. As theres no reason to move.

[@SuppressedOfficial]

I can't imagine where you heard this. People have been complaining about build time in Rust since long before 1.0. Grandpa? Is that you? Did you smoke one of those funny cigarettes again? :)

[@MortCodesWeb]

I agree

[@RichardLofty]

Zig is better than both of them. And even while still not even being 1.0

[@crimsonmegumin]

What Zig has that Rust doesn't have? I know Zig has a cool macro system...

[@ciso]

​@@crimsonmeguminZig has no macros and is focusing more on replacing C.

[@crimsonmegumin]

@@ciso Sorry, I used the wrong term. "Comptime expression evaluation"

[@HoloTheDrunk]

Different use cases. Very cool project and I hope it ends up being used everywhere, but I wouldn't use it everywhere I use Rust (or C++ for that matter)

[@ciso]

@@crimsonmegumin No problem :)

[@Freddy78909]

I think of it as C++ reborn as Rust. It's reincarnation! Just like Java -> Kotlin. 👻

[@henrik908]

Kotlin is better than Java Rust isn't.

[@CobaltSpace]

One of the main issues I ran into with C++ is that because C libraries can almost always be directly used in C++, a C++ wrapper library with C++ style safety won’t be made. This is another thing drawing me to rust: every library I may want to use is rust when I’m interacting with it.

[@buskmann]

Good video! Thanks! 😊

[@FriedMonkey362]

Just learn c# it is something completely different, its not the best at anything specific but it is pretty good for every task all around

[@FULLTILTSWIFF]

sure, will rewrite my game engine with C#, will also ping the VulkanSceneGraph dev to use C#... lmao he11 naw kthnxbye

[@ILightWas]

4:09 hard truths with humor 🤣🤣