Creating a window - Software from Scratch

[@rickdeckard4735]

You say from scratch but I don't see you harvesting your own silicon

[@25RAD]

I'd argue about harvesting the "ready to use" siicon. The proper way would be to collect pure energy and turn it into atoms of silicon.

[@אקרמיצאלח]

Amateur, Sure using already made energy is fine for most use cases, but real low level chads create their own energy​@@25RAD

[@iamtimsson]

IM INDEPENDENT I ENGINEER AND REFINE AND RESOURCE AND PLAN AND PREPARE AND TRANSPORT THE GOODS AND PATENT AND I MAKE LANGUAGE AND IM INDEPENDENT INDONT NEED NO ONE

[@rickdeckard4735]

@@iamtimsson Based

[@morezco]

@@iamtimssonlol good point

[@uk4558]

This really is a legendary algorithm pull Not every day the algorithm gives me an amazing video from a small channel

[@flooku987]

good shot m8

[@trinity6880]

real

[@MIKAEL212345]

for the all the shit youtube gets, it still has BY FAR the best algorithm at finding niche stuff that is tailor made for your interest

[@CypherPrubru-yg9wh]

@@MIKAEL212345 true, it's a hit or miss algorithm but when it hits it HITS

[@car_dot110]

​@@MIKAEL212345 indeed, i just liked one vid and the next day dozens show up in my feed

[@JohnAlexiou]

When your wrapper code needs wrapper code of its own, you have achieved greatness.

[@tusharsnx]

Finally someone explaining the struggle of first time Windows developer.

[@monad_tcp]

everyone should create a Windows Window without any help in pure C just once to know what it entails.

[@AK-vx4dy]

Is much easier on Linux directly using X or Wayland ?

[@notrealaz]

@@AK-vx4dy with X its literally so easy its way easier than the win32 api

[@jeremiasvillagran4858]

​@@monad_tcpI always did that because i didnt knew how to install wxwidgets 😢

[@AK-vx4dy]

@@ktxed For windows we also has libraries to ease this, that's why I asked how it looks if I try to go raw on Linux

[@FiveGamerNauts]

I thoroughly enjoyed the 4:3 aspect ratio of this video. 10/10

[@joeeeyyyyyy]

4:3 is gods chosen ratio. 16:9 got me using unreal numbers

[@mbakheet]

100% I enjoyed with multiple repeats to reflect in my trials and errors on Windows system programming. Windows sucks and it needs to be replaced with MuOS to have the full benefits and the potential of all the advancement in hardware during the last 10 to 20 years of developments..

[@Vexxter]

Actually this video is in 5:4 aspect ratio

[@cerulity32k]

81:80 best ratio, my monitor is straight up syntonic

[@theredbluecube2]

4:3 ratio best ratio You can't change my mind

[@mattymerr701]

Raymond Chen is a literal G.O.A.T. engineer. He has made so many insanely useful blog posts, as well as headed really major things at MS. If youve ever used compatability mode with an old program, he is one of the people you have to thank for it

[@twobob]

he is the ONLY mail that gets its own folder instead of being redirected to spamola "Chen's Rule" Rules.

[@michaelcobb1024]

Watching this video I was like, “wait, I recognise this guy!” I know I must have found some of his blog posts and remember them being exceptionally good! A huge amount of detail and explanation. What a legend

[@DotNetDemon83]

Senior engineer here. This is a great learning exercise that I encourage all engineers to try (e.g., writing a platform or framework, etc). Keep up the great work Muukid

[@rallokkcaz]

Senior engineer here as well, this is such an awesome video displaying all the pitfalls and also best practices at the same time. I'd suggest this to anybody taking their CS/self taught C programming skills to the next level.

[@suvetar]

Absolutely! It's fundamentally important to get in touch with the fundamentals, and a great lesson in humility and good library writing! It's amazing what you gotta keep on top of to get anykind of coherence with a suitable complex target ... guess that explains Win32 🤯🤣

[@OBGynKenobi]

I don't think even The Spanish Inquisition had such gruesome torture. I used to code WIN32 in the 90's and gratefully I've forgotten most of it.

[@rallokkcaz]

This is a super educational video for people trying to learn real world C programming and I wish I had it 14 years ago. I learned all of this like you, but through a much longer trial and error time frame as my focus was building websites to make money.

[@FintMC]

i am so glad i had the attention span to make it through a one hour video without distractions, this video quality is great and i cant wait to see more on this topic

[@actually_it_is_rocket_science]

As a c dev i give you kudos. Im not allowed to use libs for my work so its my norm but in the world of js learning this is pretty awesome

[@carloselfrancos7205]

New low-level guy that does everything from scratch just dropped 🔥🔥 Really cool video! Take care

[@lpsinko9705]

the youtube algorithm came in clutch with this one , one of my top c related videos i watched this year good job

[@woddenhorse]

Half way through your video and I am already in love with your channel. Keep it up. I have a low attention span and and there are very few youtubers whose long videos I watch start to end without putting it in watch later!!! Kudos Man keep it up.

[@woddenhorse]

Also, I'd love to see a rant video on Windows!!

[@mbakheet]

​@@woddenhorse Yes, Please. We would love have someone to reflect our pain with Windows' low level handling of the straight forward system things, such as required compatibility with the older implementation mistakes on the architecture being used back then, and whenever there is a conflict with very simple common sense things against what is currently being shipped with Windows OS, or even having the best practices on basic programming and developing of simple apps that deal with user experience, giving the advancement the current HW specifications went to waste. Feeling that you are not alone is a big thing to comfort you in your miserable workdays trying to fix Window OS stupidity for Microsoft.

[@isranchdressingcuisine]

I've always wanted to spend the time to do something like this, but have never been able to justify the time investment. Was really gratifying to see someone do it and create such a comprehensive video about the process.

[@sedouri]

Win32 allows you to assign arbitrary data pointers to windows using SetPropW that you can later retrieve using GetPropW. This would allow to you associate a muCOSAW32_Window pointer with a window and later retrieve it from the HWND value in your window procedure, rather than having to build a thread safe global value map between the two values yourself.

[@jgcodes2020]

While that does work on Windows, it won't work on X11 since X11 doesn't have a mechanism for that (AFAIK)

[@SillyOrb]

@@jgcodes2020 Given that it's internal to the Win32 API portion, the feature set of other window systems should have no influence on it.

[@sedouri]

@@jgcodes2020I’ve never programmed for X11, so this may not be completely accurate, but some quick Googling suggests a combination of XInternAtom, XChangeProperty, and XGetWindowProperty are rough equivalents in X11.

[@michaelcobb1024]

I just made a comment asking exactly this. I should’ve read a few more comments 😅 I think this approach is fairly common, for example I know GLib lets you set a user pointer attached to its data structures that you can then use to pass additional data to callbacks. this is definitely the way it should be implemented, at least in my opinion

[@jgcodes2020]

From an experienced C++ programmer: the include guard is actually _very_ important. If 2 separate other headers include your header, then you have a 3rd header which includes both of those 2, you'd be pasting 2 copies of the same definitions into one file, and C++ will flip out on you for it.

[@bagofmanytricks]

When making a Window you should never enforce a position. You can save the client position and use it on open to restore last position it had when closed, hopefully with a switch to turn that on if the user actually wants it. This means you never need to know the actual position of the window and if the user wants half the context be outside the monitor or whatever it's totally valid. When forcing any kind positioning or size you're going to fight peoples own automations, workflows, accessibility features and window handlings. If you make a "borderless fullscreen" window, for example, you don't have any native decorations and the client match the actual top left of your context (as long as you haven't set it to something else), and top left will always be the top left coordinates of the monitor the window is on, and the size the same as that monitor. Another important aspect of moving/sizing manipulation beyong monitors is that your own window will be hidden and stuff if it's not on the current desktop.

[@bagofmanytricks]

If I remember correctly, you shouldn't directly point one of the builtin cursor. You should copy the builtin cursors data to the current cursor. I suspect that what Windows does is that it correctly sets the cursor back to the current cursor, which isn't the cursor that you want to replace it with.

[@dwi-tyo]

"What a treat! This must be one of, if not the best programming videos out there. It explains the pitfalls of the language and presents a viable solution for them. It doesn't contrive abstract and ideal problems to be solved, instead focusing on real-world problems and how to approach them with a functional product in mind. Though not a tutorial, this is better than 90% of the tutorials for people who have learnt the syntax of a language, even if they don't fully understand the concepts. Programming is like riding a bike: you can study every aspect of it and will still know nothing until you're doing it in practice-be it riding your bike around your area or, in the case of programming, solving real-world problems in a real-world project environment. Congratulations on the masterpiece! Promptly saved it and am awaiting with bated breath for the next installments.

[@rallokkcaz]

Most of the videos about C on YT are "INTERNAL INTEGAR POINTAR" style and completely useless to people learning the language correctly.

[@workethicrecords5901]

47:24 "About as low overhead as you can get" One way to go even lower, is to use a bit map instead of an array of bools. Bools are always going to use at least 8 bits of data. So in this big map of all the keys, that means ~83 bytes, depending on all the supported keyboard buttons. But, of those 83 bytes, 72.5 of them will always be 0, since you only care about 83 bits. This could be a bit packed 11 byte array, or 6 uint16s, of you want to keep even numbers. Then use some shifting and masking macros to get back your keys. Now, there is probably a tradeoff here between memory and performance, maybe those shifting and masking operations take more time than a memory access, so you don't want to make that tradeoff on a system that most likely has GB of memory available. But, still a fun thing to think about in your architecture choices.

[@elihookerreese7663]

this is crazy to imagine

[@jmvr]

I mean, do compilers optimize it to a bitmap? I'd think that if they see an array of booleans, they'd think of doing that, but idk

[@Brahvim]

Isn't it faster to deal with stuff if it's word-size? Makes things SIMD-ready and whatnot. I wonder if branch-less loops that are simple enough are common enough to allow a compiler to fully take advantage of word-sized Booleans.

[@NikhilS-1]

I was thinking of creating os from scratch and when I opened the wikidev it gave me reality check 😂😂 They clearly mentioned that if you don't have decades of experience then just give up!😂

[@alexsmart2612]

This reminded me a lot of Emacs's source code. The graphics system in emacs is implemented in quite a similar way, which is how it is able to run on both windows and linux.

[@alexiscomix]

was about to go to sleep but im a cs student i can watch this and get 30 minutes of sleep and drink a monster and be absolutely fine update: missed all my lectures but it was okay

[@CrinkleFox]

sound just like me XD

[@bradley1995]

😂😂 a few pees from the same pod!

[@brainwashalpha5495]

damn. i skipped all my classes to watch c++ videos yesterday. 😂😂

[@mbakheet]

If you encounter Win32 or MFC, you would have nightmares about your career. Trust me. :)

[@alexiscomix]

@@mbakheet tried using win32 once and i gained 6 diseases

[@acasualviewer5861]

Pure Win32 is how we did things in the 90s. There's plenty of good documentation. Charles Petzold's book on Windows Programming is a classic. (Though probably outdated for today's 64bit Windows) The excess of boilerplate code in C illustrates why at the time C++ became popular and frameworks such as MFC were the preferred way to make windows programs. Now pause and imagine how hard it was for novice college students to pick all this up on our own just from books. Now you know why the senior programmers in your midst seem to know it all. They probably did Assembler in High School, but the hardest thing for them to pick up was learning how to use other people's APIs. In the 80s you just whipped up all your own code. Reusing code was not a thing. But when it was it involved interrupts.

[@magixshiz2543]

I wouldn’t really consider myself a programmer (I mess around in godot’s gdscript or python to make games every once in awhile, but I’ve always been more into the game design side of it) so I don’t really know why KZbin recommended me this, but I’m glad it did. The large majority of it went straight over my head, but I still really enjoyed it!

[@EmilMacko]

Having worked with OpenGL in C++, your implementation and explanation of the context system (and the global context) was SUPER insightful! Massive thanks and I dearly hope this series blows up and I cant wait for the next part!

[@ismailesadklc3874]

please please please please continue this series. you are a legend.

[@LBCreateSpace]

I’ve been working my way through ‘The C Programming Language’ book (reading and doing the exercises) and this video helps to put it all together. You’re right! You do learn so much more having to do it all on a lower level.

[@neonblue289]

Wasn't expecting to stick around the whole video but here I am. Good content.

[@AftercastGames]

Win32 is too complicated, so I’m going to create my own wrapper for it.” 5 mins later… “Sorry this library I wrote is so complicated…” Good stuff 👍😏 By the way, if it helps, any time you see the word Handle, or a type that starts with H, you can just think of it as an ID. HWND = Window ID. HDC = Device ID.

[@mintsaucemilitia]

Thank you KZbin algorithm gods. This series is gonna be legendary.

[@emptycode1782]

Keep posting with the same quality , this channel will explode

[@CatNjoyer100]

BOOM

[@shreyash1]

some men just want to watch youtube servers burn

[@gataslice7663]

Watched this with my wife (both autistic and programmers) enjoyed it a lot. Keep at it, youtuber man!

[@SillyOrb]

This is fun, once you get past the annoying boilerplate and the even more annoying mechanisms of the windowing system. I encourage you to also show some mistakes, because people keep making them, but they are rarely shown and explained, as you did with the window class. Speaking of which: You should make sure that you are only using one set of APIs when it comes to text: either *W or *A. You show multiple times around 36:00 that PeekMessageA is used. If I'm not mistaken, the kernel uses UTF-16 exclusively, so the *A APIs might cause overhead (I haven't checked that, but it should not matter, as *W has been the standard for decades now). That said, I learned something (I wasn't aware of ImageBase, must have skipped that article on The Old New Thing), even though I've been using Win32 for about 25 years. Thanks. 😄 Cheers.

[@bradley1995]

Bro! I absolutely love it! Straight up making muC++ into a safe wrapper. I truly hope this project takes off! You have a cheerful tone in your voice, and seem excited to teach us about the topic. The editing isnt insane but it does a great job keeping me very interested. I think you did great overall! I subbed and look forward to your future content!

[@hyp3r_unii]

This video is simply one of the 7 wonders of the modern internet

[@miffi411]

Just wanna say that this has been one of the most entertaining long form coding videos I've watched. I loved you highlighting all the little things you learnt about the system gradually and your thought process in each step. I'll be eagerly waiting for the next episode!

[@alexdefoc6919]

Fun fact. I wished in the past few months to achive this. but left it later. THx for showing your path.

[@Hellbending]

I haven’t got epilepsy but man I gotta give you props for providing people that do an ACTUAL way to watch your content and hide it in the window that they might have problems during. Huge f props to you brother 🫡

[@marekkupiec9903]

I love that you said "don't worry if you don't know what that means" in the one place in this overal esoteric video where I actually experienced that thing irl.

[@tanvirhasanakash]

Please don't stop uploading. This is a banger of a video. I want moreee!!!

[@maybetomorrow-e6r]

This tutorial is A++ in addressing C, C+?, C++? and technology in general. Not my strength, but your outstanding communication and organized, creative teaching method awoke my interest and made it seem possible that I too could learn something new and expand my world to more than just opening e-mails, texting and scrolling. Your passion fuels my interest. Need to learn more and awaiting the next chapters. Continuing one chapter at a time is a great help.

[@eccodreams]

Super interested in where you go with this. I'm in a programming college course now and watching this is oddly soothing while I burn in the dumpster fire that is the Canadian education system.

[@Nuwa-6X]

genuinely one of the best videos i've seen on youtube about programming, great work. can't wait for the next upload :)

[@gabiiiMa]

keep doing this please,this is the type of content that I like and people need in this days

[@hexstudios]

Seldom I watch a full hour long video, but you kept my attention and interest the whole time, so A++ video in my book. You skills are insane and you somehow make this super low level stuff make sense. I look forward to the rest of these videos!

[@joiscode3832]

Hardest way only 💪. This channel has the potential to blow up like jdh, my personal project right now(and for the last year) is building a basic kernel and operating system in c++

[@Marcos-nz8pe]

Algorithm made brick by brick. Amazing video!!🥳

[@andrew_ray]

The reason you have to show the window separately is so that you can populate the window before you show it, which you might want to do to avoid a flash.

[@tomeck.y2239]

Awesome video! As a beginner programmer I love this kind of videos where I follow the process of creating some libraries and get to know the reasoning behind some solutions. One question: do you plan on releasing source code for Mucosa library/framework? I would love to look through the code and try to run it myself. Anyway, good job and I'm waiting for future episodes! 😁😁

[@madfangkills]

What an incredible autobiography on the descent into madness

[@shiiroitori5403]

Unbelievably well made video, I'm extremely excited to see what you develop further! Great job!

[@corbendasquid8496]

This is awesome. I have always wanted technical and entertaining programming videos. Super nice stuff man

[@smooll_d]

Now, this is quality content. Funny, informative, I love the style of the video, the 5:4 ratio is a great touch. Please keep it up, don't change the style, I love it. I don't usually subscribe to channels, even if I enjoy watching their videos but this is different. Don't stop, can't wait for the next video.

[@marius.ballot]

massive respect wether this is your first video or not, DAYUM that shits sick

[@RockTo11]

7:25 : For heap allocation, since you are on Windows, you can use VirtualAlloc and it will get you zeroed-out memory. Or, of course, use calloc(...) which will initialize the memory to whatever you want while allocating it.

[@christianbouwense4702]

I started doing something similar last year, super happy to see others do it too!

[@sunshine19088]

thank you KZbin algorithm, absolute masterpiece

[@maddyv5948]

This is amazing! I'm surprised it's the only video on this channel. Subscribed and waiting for more. 🥰🥰🥰

[@procrvstinvtion8479]

Wow, excellently edited, funny, well explained, long form, and interesting topic to boot. Very awesome video, subbed.

[@blackcanaryhorcrux7962]

First time watching your channel. I love how your camera is just different versions of the same cat image

[@charismaticcatholic1]

The algorithm strikes again! I will say the most underrated feature of this video, ironically, is the random robot voice correcting narration mistakes. Well done for making it an amusing, memerrific voice to regrab attention from my ADHD ears. Additionally this gives me flashbacks of teaching C at the college level and of ALL the MANY warnings I gave students about pointers that could be null, letting one resource be accessed in multithreaded applications, etc. Wish I'd had your video back then...

[@nathanhampton8049]

I think as far as Linux compatibly check out using Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL), should be a lighter alternative to a full VM and I think it's a lot easy to work with directly on windows. Also Fantastic video! I can't wait to see where this series goes

[@newlochte]

I was literally scrolling to see if someone suggested that, like mate just use wsl it's all you need for Linux and Windows

[@rnts08]

Maybe little bro is running low ram or disk. It's not free even if Wsl is deeply integrated into wintendo now. 😅

[@shmunkyman33]

I believe it still ultimately depends on Windows windowing system, so it wouldn't really be very good for thorough or accurate testing, especially if he has decided a VM isn't going to be accurate enough

[@Benb253]

Amazing video. I will be watching the whole series. Keep it up! 🎉

[@carti7152]

youre a soldier for this. moved away from c for everything except for the things that require it

[@phoenixxofficial]

Well structured, full of information and funny! Good shi man, thanks for the content

[@LetsSmiley]

You are the Acerola of low-level C programming.

[@twobob]

lol. he even co-opted the thumbs up candy man.

[@brdane]

I read that as "areola" at first.

[@ipizza9941]

Acerola has the GOAT status in graphics programming. Muukid has just started, he will surely become one of the GOATs.

[@matthijsreus9656]

But Acerolaaa...

[@mhmtkrnlk]

Awesome cant wait for graphics episode

[@willianvinagre3338]

my man just uploaded one of the greatest programming video of all time as the first ever video of the channel. awesome video, can't wait for the next video(s)!

[@IsaacHisey]

Fantastic watch! This is the first time I've ever used the "bell icon" and set it to all. Looking forward to more. Regardless though, excellent job!

[@nito8066]

congrats you get the 1080p award for the quality of your videos

[@ARKSYN]

Feels like God handed me this video, exactly what I needed

[@ankomcoper1183]

The ability to use multiple windowing systems at the same time could be used in Linux. Wayland has a thing called XWayland which allows X programs to run on Wayland. (It is less cursed than you might think). So you could have one window on Wayland, and another on XWayland/X11. I do not know why you would do that, but you could.

[@nikkehtine]

>he pronounces clang just like "clank" instantly subscribed

[@AlguienMas555]

Jajajaja😂😂😂. I Believed that i was the only one that hates the way win32 API is implemented and how the f*cking documentation don't help to much.

[@artipeo816]

Fr

[@cybernite99]

Win api is the devil

[@glytchd]

This actually knocked me back when I was a kid in the 90s. Of it wasn't such a pain to understand I literally would be leading a spent life but no.. heaven forbid you actually explain wtf anything means

[@genZoutCast-h8y]

9:36

[@LevmurQ_Q]

So you don't know about Casey Murray huh?

[@codingwithjamal]

here before the primeagen reacts

[@molybd3num823]

its gonna be 10 hours long

[@loldoctor]

Haven't watched the video completely yet, but I really like this project and your style. I'm also fascinated by the prospect of just doing something myself. But... this is sort of next level.

[@jswp5]

When I went into college for computer science, this is what I was hoping I'd come out knowing how to do.

[@unthinkabilities]

love this, the pacing, your speaking style, the content, it’s super entertaining!!

[@andythedishwasher1117]

I love your goals! Enshittification has polluted the way we learn to build software these days. I've had to dig past a lot of idiotic frameworks to find sane expressions of the basic functionality we use every day, and even those frequently break or lose important features due to increasingly idiotic decisions across their dependency chains. I definitely would love to work toward a dependency-free stack to the extent that it's practical to pursue. Excellent work.

[@scoopp3902]

What a fantastic video. From one windows api survivor to another, great job!

[@HandleLDawg]

Unless your a DLL manufacturing windows for other processes, you don’t need to pass in the HINSTANCE into the WINCLASS structure nor the CreateWindow function.

[@demidaniel9253]

Hilarious and informative, subscribed and looking forward to more!

[@monad_tcp]

11:02 almost every project people have in C kind of end up doing what you did. good thing you did it upfront. no bad at all

[@Hip-HopStateOfmind]

This is actually explained pretty well, good job, very interesting and well explained

[@Diabl0pl]

Instantly subbed, can't wait for more.

[@ptrevordactyl5663]

Very cool to see how someone designs a large library like this, good video 👍

[@natsuhiboshi7161]

Fun video! I exactly knew what was gonna happen when you said you wanted to make the window draggable :D Keep it up!

[@Bhrz]

I really jive with the quality and depth of your video. I thoroughly enjoy it. I'm happy to have found your channel!

[@tanawatjukmongkol2178]

Good to see the other perspective of C programming on a Windows machine. I usually write C/C++ for unix systems, such as MacOS and LInux, but this is quite interesting.

[@aiden_obj]

1:30 not naming names *COUGH COUGH* adobe *COUGH COUGH* no one in particular *COUGHCOUGHHH* adobe *COUGH HACK COUGH*

[@xelaxander]

Holy moly this is pedestrian. Gotta implement your own compile time generics system and dynamic generics system.

[@TheRoadrusher]

damn my guy, i admire the courage and the effort put on that, hooked me on the video every second! One time i've tried to draw a window using win32 and noped out by being lazy. Good content! Cant wait for the graphics episode!

[@workethicrecords5901]

This is the best operating system architecture video that I've ever seen. Easily. While most of this is just like, re-making the SDL2 window system, (might be being a bit reductive here, not trying to discredit the work) I feel like I have a much better understanding of why it works the way it does now.

[@aiden_obj]

This could be a cool way to rate operating systems, by how weird or clunky it is to create a new window from scratch

[@scottspitlerII]

You will learn a lot from creating the HAL, it’s going to be the hardest part, keep going.

[@DatKidDude1]

I love finding channels like these. Insta sub.

[@pieterpretorius9743]

Exactly what I wanted for months

[@GuildOfCalamity]

You're running into the same issues the engineers at MS ran into when developing NT. I wouldn't agree that the Win32 API is bad, but if you don't work with it much then it can be overwhelming and unwieldy. I would agree that MS documentation sucks. BTW, if you want to know more about the assembly headers I'd recommend ILSpy and look at the DOS/PF headers. MS has a history of trying to support 16-bit DOS apps and the like, you can still open a Word doc made on Windows 95 to this day (for better or for worse). The ShowWindow makes sense when you think about an application that could have a settings window (allocated, but not shown) and you don't want the user to see it unless they click on a settings icon.