What Was Schürzen Actually For?

[@ConeOfArc]

Grab some of my merch now and save 5% with the code CONEFRIDAY until December 6th: coneofarc.gunjigraphics.com

[@AlbanianEmir]

if i were to be older i would have

[@John-yf8qh]

No, no you’re quite wrong with the caption in the thumbnail. It’s probably best that you don’t try to surmise what other people do and do not have in their heads. As we’ll see below, you statistically haven’t got the capacity to imagine what other people may or may not know. Spaced armour* is for defeating projectiles. It ruins the necessary standoff distance of shaped-charge ammunition and causes ball ammunition to run untrue, thereby limiting its stopping power via a tumble or a deflection. Say, do try to remember that you are a KZbinr. Statistically you’ve got fewer brain cells than the average cabbage. Though, you may be of the tiny percentage (it’s something very low, less than 3%) that isn’t cabbagesque, though from what I’ve heard in the past, I’m sticking with the stats. *How it’s spelt when using the English Language albeit a French word fog up. Unless you think you’re French of course… Most Americans pretend to be anything other than American, though I don’t suppose anyone should blame them for that. If I woke up from this dream to find myself an American citizen, in America. I’d be very thankful of the ease in which one can secure oneself a firearm over there.

[@TheArklyte]

Slat armor isn't misunderstood and was around since 60's at least. Russians are being ridiculed for cope cages because they weld them improperly resulting in uneven gaps and use L and C metal profiles instead of "blade" strips, which causes an INCREASE in likelihood of projectile fuzing. Gaps need to be specifically just a few millimetres thinner then caliber of most common projectile you expect to be attacked with(usually 73-82mm), they need to be parallel and the "blades" need to be as thin(from attacker's perspective) and rigid as possible. Tl;dr NII Stali has a literal textbook on how to make slat armor and russian army failed every part of it 😅

[@brokeandtired]

Worth noting that Western Slat armour is designed to crumple and shatter a warhead of a heat round. The gaps are to let the fuse through unimpacted and the bar slats break up a shell and make forming a jet near impossible.

[@ShokkuKyushu]

Accurate video,subscribed👍

[@dyncoder]

Finally someone properly explains stand-off distance and why spaced armor can work both for and against you

[@DaveSCameron]

You’ve no imagination, ..

[@sergeipohkerova7211]

The Schurzen make the Panzer IV look more modern from the side, a very cool aesthetic. Unlike the body kit my friend put on his 1994 Acura Integra. Makes it just look all janky with that goofy wing and everything.

[@JanFWeh]

Interesting fact: _The Integra performs horribly against anti-tank rifles despite being over 50 years younger._

[@ConeOfArc]

Also had a tendency to kick dust right into the air intakes or fall off. Reports from the field aren't too positive about them

[@Charles-q4t8y]

@ConeOfArc for every action....

[@Charles-q4t8y]

@@sergeipohkerova7211 Spicerack

[@markrainford1219]

When you are both old you will laugh about it.

[@davidk6269]

The Schurzen side skirts were initially intended to protect against anti-tank rifle projectiles, weren't they?

[@salamander4668]

Pin this comment

[@brealistic3542]

Yes, later they helped stop Heat rounds. Just another benefit.

[@JanFWeh]

_"The Skirts side skirts"_ Ok, ok, we get it, you're talking about skirts, right? 😘

[@verysurvival]

There’s a video about that on KZbin 😂😂😂😂

[@coachhannah2403]

And worked against larger AT projectiles and worked against HEAT. Edit: correction - did not work significantly well against most HEAT rounds.

[@turtlecheese8]

You are the first person I have ever heard refer to the anti-drone screens and spaced armor as anything other than "cope cage". Thank you for your research and professionalism.

[@ConeOfArc]

Not a fan of the "cope cage" term as it just seems silly to me and discredits the completely logical reason behind their existence

[@turtlecheese8]

@@ConeOfArc I've felt the same way about it and just thought of it as completely unprofessional regardless of which side is using it.

[@Pratt_]

​@@ConeOfArc the terms initially came from the fact that Russian media claimed it could defeat Javelins and NLAWs in the early days of the invasion of Ukraine, even though nobody from the Russian MoD ever made that claim lol

[@ConeOfArc]

@@Pratt_ I'm aware of why it originated, doesn't make it any less silly

[@apersondoingthings5689]

gerrmany: makes 45 ton panther which is almost immune from fire to the front Soviet guy with a big rifle: I’m about to end this man’s whole career

[@erwinsetyo1061]

5 mm steel that attached on the side of the Panther: "Nein"

[@FrostyCatPanzerV]

Cuz the panther was the medium tank, heavy tank, and tank destroyer in one.

[@itsuk1_1]

@@erwinsetyo1061 ivan will absolutely laugh their ass off back then if they heared fritz spend shit tons of resource redesign and upweight their medium tank to 45tons , just because some big rifle in infantry battalion.

[@макслюлюкин]

@@itsuk1_1 in Russia, they laugh at the claim that a tank weighing 45 tons is average, it is a heavy tank, the t-34-76 of the first releases weighed 26 tons by the latest upgrades of the t-34-85 it began to weigh up to 32 tons, the is-2 weighed 46 tons and it was a heavy tank, the IS-3 weighed 49 tons, so the T-34 was a medium tank along with the Panzer-4 and Sherman

[@gen1945]

All I know is that the schurzen makes it really hard to make a custom lego model of a panzer 4 edit: yes, i know some models of the panzer 4 didn’t have schurzen, i think it looks nicer with it on

[@sergeipohkerova7211]

Those plate pieces (4x4s or 6x8s) with flat (non studded) tops plus those little wing wedge pieces that are common in Star Wars sets are a good solution. They're widely available in gray, too.

[@gen1945]

@ the hard part is getting that connected to the hull. ive tried every possible connection type and all of them fall off easily

[@sergeipohkerova7211]

​@@gen1945the technic beam pieces with the holes along the side might work? Using the pin swivel joints that have a bit of a standoff might work. Then maybe using those low profile 2x1 L brackets to clip to the plate, but on the perpenticule end stick a 1x2 technic piece with a hole to receive the standoff joint. It would be more sturdy and wouldn't require using super glue or anything.

[@Little-_Z]

I like my shutzen when it’s made of LEGO because I love attaching crap tons of leaves to it

[@Theduckwebcomics]

They're the best looking take of the war without those silly things.

[@heimdalldefender900]

The biggest advantage of Schurzen was that they made Pz III, Pz IV and StuG III the most beautiful tanks of WW2.

[@selfdo]

With putting some to protect both turret and hull of the later-model Panzer IVs, from a distance, a "greenhorn" US tanker might mistake them for a Tiger. This is probably why so many accounts of facing Tiger tanks and getting the worse of it, when the German records indicate no Tiger units were in that area.

[@ATF-]

@@selfdo precisely

[@commisaryarreck3974]

@@selfdo Honestly the Americans were so terrified they'd scream if they saw a tankette Especially since their overwhelming areal superiority usually led to them hunkering down and calling down hell on whatever took a shot on them

[@majormiller493]

When I stare too much at a StuG III with Schurzen, I start to see an abraham tank for some reasons...

[@TheSaturnV]

@@commisaryarreck3974 What a moronic comment. Those US tankmen had more courage than a loser like you could ever dream of.

[@Johnnyynf]

It also have unintended effect of making tank nerds aroused

[@clanka.]

you’re goddamn right

[@flummi6966]

def yes

[@AmbuBadger]

"I wonder what's under her _schürtzen,_ huh huh, get it?"

[@Rusted-studios]

Correct

[@matt_pigeonowsky]

Fun fact about spacing of HEAT rounds. I-TOW achived over 20% increase just byt puting fuse on a thingy. Due to this US soldiers were issuied instruction that in case of war one can simply upgrade TOW to I-TOW by slaping wooden pole of specified diameter and length

[@christophervanoster]

I know the original purpose. Stopping AT rifles. The sides of panzer 3, 4, and early panthers were thin enough at rifles could penetrate them. That’s why the panther G and on have a thicker side to stop them

[@davidk6269]

Yes, you are correct. The side skirts would cause the AT rifle rounds to tumble after penetrating the side skirting, robbing them of the energy needed to penetrate the actual side armor of the tank.

[@wwmoggy]

You just won a 50-year-old case of Spam.

[@davidk6269]

@@wwmoggy Only 50-years-old? So it's still well within its "best by" date. Score!

[@christophervanoster]

@@wwmoggy awesome. So is it being shipped or do I need to collect it myself?

[@wwmoggy]

@@christophervanoster You have collect it from Eric Iddle he might make you sing for it Spam! Spam! Spam! Spam! Lovely spam! Wonderful spam! Spam spa-a-a-a-a-am spam spa-a-a-a-a-am spam Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Spam spam spam spam!

[@Shadow_Lunatale]

And yet another step up in quality of an already really good content. The combination of on-hand presentation and historical material is great. Everything is presented streamlined without filler material to lengthen the playtime.

[@TheLadderman]

I'm very glad someone finally did a video on this stuff. This has been the source of many prolific misconceptions for a long time.

[@Jay-ln1co]

I made the classic blunder when playing Battlegroup a while back. Thought I'd save some points and didn't put skirts on my StuG. It most definitely did not get destroyed by a lucky shot from a Soviet anti-tank rifle through the side in a way that it would've survived had it been given skirts.

[@XanderDorn]

Translating "Schürzen" correctly into "aprons" and not "skirts" deserves a like.

[@Michael-uc2pn]

But do aprons refer to the same things to German speakers as English speakers? In other words, do chefs and blacksmiths wear schurzen?

[@XanderDorn]

@@Michael-uc2pn Yes, that is exactly what a Schürze is in German.

[@HelmordOkrutnik]

It may be a correct translation, but tbh when I think of an apron, I see it covering someone's front, and sideskirts rolls of the tongue better than sideprons/sideaprons. And skirts are cute

[@XanderDorn]

@@HelmordOkrutnik I ain't arguing against your fashion statement. You could perhaps see it as that an apron doesn't go all around you, while a skirt does. And the Schürzen of a Panzer also only cover one part and not the entire thing.

[@HelmordOkrutnik]

Thinking about it that way, yeah that makes sense. The image of dual side-worn aprons looks funny, but I guess Panzers were the type of cooks that had pots of boiling oil on their left and right

[@bigtutel-ts3hn]

you just explained how HEAT rounds dont function how I exactly thought they did, and for that I learned something new.

[@LordTharak1963]

I've been watching your videos for a while now, it's nice to see the face behind the voice. Keep up the great work you do. More of you would be great...you do it well.

[@russellprice8971]

Nicely covered. Spaced armor has been introduced many times over the years, and in each case was meant to counter a specific battlefield problem. For example, the spaced armor on the front of turret and hull of the Pz IIIG and H employed a hardened plate, and was intended to help defeat certain types of kinetic rounds in use at the time. Yes, it is a complex subject. No one engineering solution, sadly, will provide a complete defense against all possible threats. "Ya pays yer money, and ya takes yer chance"

[@hideshisface1886]

Before I watch - originally intended against AT rifles. Note that the first German tanks these things appeared on were Panzer III and IV - they had something around 30mm of side armour - which could be penetrated by Soviet AT-rifles, such as PTRD-41 at relatively long distances even. Hilariously - Soviets initially believed these side skirts were made to make the identification of the vehicles more difficult - disguising older tanks as Tigers.

[@Grubnar]

The Soviets had a point. After the Normandy landings, many PanzerIV tanks were mistakenly reported as Tigers, because with the side-skirts and extra turret armour, when spotted from a distance, they looked like a Tiger tank.

[@lenny9341]

Great video as always bro! The fact that you were able to show irl footage was sick af

[@BS-561]

I was just at the museum a week ago. Kent was an awesome guide through the whole place! It was on a Wednesday afternoon nearing closing and I spent about 4 hours there. I flew like a kid in a candy shop. I got to talk to the staff and Kent for the entire time. Took over 1,000 photos and got a photo with Kent and myself. Shoutout to the American Heritage Museum In Hudson Massachusetts. Greta video!

[@CommanderJoe1984]

This video was extremely informative! I’ve been working on a Pz. IV with side and turret skirts. This will help finding out how to damage them properly. Keep it up!

[@Schlingel1101]

Somewhere i read that the "Schürzen" also made it difficult to place mines or charges on the tracks of the tank in close combat situations. There is a movie from the Wehrmacht about a "Panzervernichtungstrupp" where you can see how they place a mine on the tracks of a t 34 who was not equiped with any "Schürzen". So it was easier to place them and therefore easy to get out of the situation.

[@randolphstead2988]

In the old "Cross of Iron" film there is a scene that shows what you described. A German soldier places some mines on top of a T-34 which was stalled on top of a trench.

[@ottovonbismarck2443]

Another method was to place a Tellermine (time fuse) under the turret overhang.

[@tomasteply1956]

To be honest and humble. As a student of firearms and ammunition engineering I learned something new in your video. That happens rather rarely so big thank you. Great job

[@Darilon12]

Great video. This topic is often discussed anecdotally but you delivered the facts. I've one small nitpick though. Or maybe I'm missunderstanding your explanation. 1:14 "When a bullet struck these plates not only would it begin to slow down, but it would alter the trajectory of the projectile causing it to hit at an angle ." More importantly the round is destabilized and it will not hit the main armor with its full mass behind the point of contact - resulting in loosing much of its effective kinetic energy and by that its penetration potential. It's less about the change in trajetrajectory and more about the change in orientation relative to the trajectory.

[@JGCR59]

Thing is the Red Army issued these AT rifles in huge numbers. Like on Platoon level. So every time a german tank attacked, it was pretty much sure to be fire at by these rifles. Even if the rounds didn't penetrate (the theoretical max penetration that might penetrate a Panther's side armor required point blank range) they could do damage to tracks and exposed equipment and if nothing else, un nerve the crew by constant hits. So protection against 14,5mm AT rifles as essential even if they rarely killed any of the german medium tanks outright, even in 1941.

[@kryts27]

Did the Red Army infantry use shoulder-mounted anti-tank?

[@thingamabob3902]

@@kryts27 you mean like bazookas ? They got some 3000 as US lend lease but they didn´t like it and did not order more, their own development, the RPG-1 was not ready until end of the war ( and then was superseded by the RPG-2 version for actual production).

[@remingtonspeed7481]

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU! For properly explaining the mechanisms or HEAT rounds. This is the best casual/enthusiast explanation I have seen about them.

[@thunderK5]

Excellent analysis!

[@gavinphillips3973]

Fascinating video, really enjoyed that one. Since the Soviets looked at a prototype "T-44-100" which featured 6mm thick skirts for anti-HEAT purposes and yet the following T-54/55/62 lacked these entirely, they most likely came to a similar if not the same conclusion? Keep up the great work with the videos. 👍👍

[@ConeOfArc]

The Soviets played around with side skirts and other spaced armor of various types during the cold war but most of the time it ends up being more of a hassle than its worth. Integrating composite materials into your armor seems to be the best solution

[@sergeychmelev5270]

@@ConeOfArc there’s also another reason. The wheels on the soviet tanks like T-44, T-54/55, T-62 are pretty large, working somewhat like the side skirts. Once switched to the smaller wheels on T-64, the side skirts started re-appearing.

[@samiamrg7]

Drachinifel has an excellent video about spaced armor specifically in regard to the Littorio class of Italian battleships.

[@billspreitzer6319]

Informative and well articulated. Keep up the good work.

[@TheSlamburger]

I know it’s not a tank, but I’d love to see a video on the M26 Dragon Wagon someday. It’s definitely one of my favorite vehicles.

[@autoguy57]

FINALLY, content that makes sense without the “hoopla” of other sites. You can actually learn something here.

[@malcolmyoung7866]

Great video with some awesome archive footage and photos.

[@DIREWOLFx75]

Similar style of sideplates also exists under the name of breaker plate, where a relatively thin but extremely well-hardened piece was used as spaced armor, because it was not technically possible at the time to make THICK such well-hardened plates(or rather, at least not in massproduction), they couldn't be used as part of the overall armor, but placed as spaced plates, using only the thinner plates, they were meant to deform KE penetrators, or "defang" the EFPs of HEAT warheads(because the extreme hardness of the plate means that the EFP takes slightly more energy to penetrate, which means that when it hits the main armor, it is more blunted and slightly slower, meaning that the armor has greater chance of stopping it). "schurzen" Came about at least in part specifically due to the rapid deployment of the PTRD and PTRS 14.5mm rifles that USSR put over 400 thousand in service during WWII. As these were of such high penetration and caliber that they were capable of serious damage against anything without enough armor. Going through 30mm was common, 20mm was effectively guaranteed, and 40mm was not unheard of, even more happened.

[@someone75413]

EFP /= HEAT. EFPs can be disrupted by high-hardness plates much like any other KE penetrator, but HEAT jets are not meaningfully impeded.

[@philo6850]

Outstanding video on spaced armor that's richly illustrated, it provides an excellent tutorial on the aspects of both the armor and the weapons designed to defeat it, very well done! 👍

[@prjndigo]

To give ad. explanation of heat solidus jets penetrating through some spaced armor better, if the spacing is wrong for the charge's dynamics it can end up simply turning into a funnel that keeps the jet concentrated or even attenuated into a better jet. Atmospheric temp, contact surface, initial plate incidence angle and all have effects on the efficacy of the solidus jet. If too much energy is taken away or added the jet will transition out of being solidus to either a foam alloy if cooled or a plasma if heated further. There are even extreme circumstances where explosive reactive armor increases the power of a HEAT shaped charge and this whole set of effects also has a huge impact on missile speeds, timing and size of a secondary charge on dual or triple warhead systems.

[@marcwittkowski5146]

Love how all the comments without Umlaute just talk about sharting. "Schürzen"= sprons. "Schurzen"= to shart.

[@gelatinousturncoat]

I was just at this museum at the end of November! American Heritage Museum is incredible.

[@angeurbain6129]

The side metal armor was simply a cheap and efficient way to increase the protection of the side of the tank. And it also had the advantage of deflecting most of the projectiles thant were hitting at an angle.

[@wacojones8062]

Good presentation, wire mesh, Chain-link fencing and steel plates are useful with correct placement vs RPG family of warheads due there having a nose initiator. US forces in Nam used Chain-link and steel Pickets up 6 feet long to space the fencing up to 2 meters in front of the vehicle to be protected. Some modern systems like TOW use 2 layers of metal as impact sensor with power from the internal battery in the round for power negating most chances for fuzing failure along with inertial backup in the detonator assembly itself.

[@xanderunderwoods3363]

This channel is criminally underrated

[@Novi_Slaveski_official]

I really like the panzer 4 with side skirts, idk why, it just looks iconic

[@janmale7767]

Thanks!, Well presented, I know they said the original intension was to tumble anti tank rounds, but I was always certain it could help a bit with other types of projectiles as well!

[@DefaultProphet]

4:18 Wait what’s this about glass being effective against HEAT?

[@ConeOfArc]

Glass at certain thicknesses is more effective than the same thickness of steel. You also get the benefit of reduced weight over steel which is why you see glass and other materials used for composite armor. According to one of the documents they rated it about equal to aluminum. Gets into a lot of math regards to the forces at play and the density of materials which I didn't really want to delve into for this particular video

[@jeffkardosjr.3825]

Demolition Ranch has a video where they put a non lined shaped charge on a bulletproof window. The window effectively stopped the charge.

[@RandallWeeks]

We found out in Iraq that armored glass is pretty impressive against lots of anti-armor weapons. Stuff that would go through armored doors on trucks like butter usually didn't defeat the windows.

[@davidk6269]

Great content. Thank you!

[@namyun2743]

Came here for the "schurtzen are for antitank rifles" and left with an entry-level lecture on shaped charge design and scalability.

[@JaimeWulf]

One of the best explanations I've seen... TY!

[@lynnmcculloch-m4h]

❤❤❤❤❤ absolutely

[@Kabosky]

the schurzen even used to these day because it good to block a hit of high exploration shell and in those time it was the best people could found to protect the middle sight of the tank

[@Treblaine]

8:53 "Better Living Thru Canister" lol

[@cheeseburger7290]

Lol

[@Tanksbeforetruck1738]

Gotta love the American Heritage Museum, honestly one of my top 5 museums Ive ever been to

[@razor1uk610]

Side skirts were to try and promote _Keyholing_ of an AT rifle round by hopefully making it lose energy and gyroscopic spin stability as it contacts the armour plate inboard if the skirt plate.

[@GarGhuul]

Big thanks to Armored Archives!

[@pauleveritt3388]

The earliest example of spaced armor that I am aware of goes back to the middle 1600s when firearms became more common on the battlefield. Blacksmiths would make breastplates, three layers thick with space in between. A properly made breastplate could spot a musket round. This idea has been around a long time. This type of protection is built into the International Space Station to deal with micrometeor hits.

[@sthrich635]

Why didn't the Germans put side skirts on 251 halftracks too? Given they usually accompany with Panzer IVs and faced AT rifles fire too.

[@kirotheavenger60]

I've not read any official sources on that, but my initial thoughts would hinge on a few contributing factors, Perhaps the base armour of the halftracks was just too thin. Perhaps the ATR would penetrate the base armour after the shurtzen anyway. Weight, the halftracks were lighter vehicles and the added shurtzen weight may be too much. Especially as their thinner base armour may require larger or thicker shurtzen And perhaps the shurtzen would get in the way of disembarking infantry. I'm not sure if the Germans always used the rear hatch or if they sometimes jumped over the side (it seems rather high though, I'd probably weigh this least)

[@meanteen]

So what we have learnt that generally spaced armour is to give a higher rating (0.762/1.27cm or 1.27/3cm) as it removes the ballistic cap and removes fragmenting from modern ERA and is a precursor to NERA where composite armour can reflect kinetic energy into the rounds themselves before it engages the main armour

[@Poly._]

About time, the effective jet range of modern HEATFS/ATGMS are about 9-50+ meters. Spaced armor from it's first introduction has been used for projectile decapping/asymmetrical shearing. Thin plates might as-well not exist if you use relative energy, 9M128M goes about 18km/s with a jet that has a peak energy of 82MJ. The cages on Russian tanks were installed due to an order from Gerasimov because he thought it would defeat FGM-148, it was not optional for the crews. Thank you for this video.

[@marcdavis4509]

If I may add in WWII every side was developing fusing and firing of HEAT warheads differently. In spin stabilized HEAT rounds up to 3/4 of the effect would be mitigated by the spin of the round from rifled barrels. Such as from tank or recoilless rifles. So the spaced armor would actually help dissipate the rest of the energy of the round. So I feel the weight tradeoff was more beneficial in addition even if the extra protection could be minimal there was an effect that the crew would feel more confident in their survivability.

[@williwass6837]

Wow,your presenting ages old knowledge like the newest invention in space flight!Like most of the time!

[@wojtekpolska1013]

I wonder if these changed the visibility in any significant way?

[@prjndigo]

Thank you for _always_ getting to the fucking point!

[@gilbertley1309]

I can't tell if this is sarcastic or not

[@psyberiusblack]

That museum is about 15-20 minutes from me! I had no idea it existed! 😮

[@Chilly_Billy]

Cool to see the stuff at life size that sometimes you wonder what it's for at 1/35 scale.

[@Order_66clones]

Did any other countries try to copy the type of side armor ? And if so do you know how much Pen. the panzerfaust would’ve had on the m4s side armour?

[@LoserDestiny]

The Germans absolutely considered the Shürzen as a measure against HEAT rounds. Even the mesh-Schürzen (or especially them, since their impact on AT rifle rounds is even more doubtable) were considered as such. They even tested various types of Schürzen material against one another in late 1944 or early 45, concluding the mesh screens didn't provide sufficient protection. I remember reading that in the German Waffen-Revue magazine, can't tell in which issue though.

[@ConeOfArc]

It's likely they tested it however I was unable to find anything aside from information saying they did not consider it as protection for that

[@letsgobrandontrump2024]

Missed ya cone, hope you’re doing well man and keep up the excellent work

[@billspreitzer6319]

Also the Schurzen skirts made Allied troops often mistake Panzer 4's for Tiger 1's. Made them think they were up against a more dangerous opponent in a battle.

[@davidhatton583]

Sounds like an ever evolving subject with the latest information being highly classified still. I was also of the impression that this armor was also used to protect the track mechanisms from light weapons as immobilizing the tank is 70% of the way towards its destruction

[@johnanon6938]

Probably should've mentioned near the start the WW1 French tanks that first used spaced armour (ie. Schneider CA1) to defend against bullets and projectiles to reflect where intentional design + use of spaced armour started within any military land forces.

[@knucen]

I've been wondering about this for a while thank you for just straight up saying what they are for straight away

[@johnnycab8986]

I believe the concept wasn't only due to PTRS AT rifles, but was also conceptualized to help mitigate mobility kills from artillery, and also shaped charges. Germany had a different style of Schurzen for the Western front, which was a mesh style, with holes greater than 14.5mm indicating it wouldn't be very reliable against AT rifle fire. Note that this style occurred in the West where AT Rifles were not used much, but HEAT projectiles were. There are also quite a few pictures of Soviet vehicles with both mesh style spaced armor and solid armor plates. In 1943 the Soviets produced 68 T-34E models which had spaced armor on the turret and hull sides. Germany did not use AT rifles that much after late 1942.

[@honza7466]

Pretty good explanation 👍

[@jerrymail]

Thanks! Depending on the source, one time you are told that it is protection against anti-tank rifles, another time, that it is protection against shaped charges. It is quite confusing! Now I know the real reason!

[@ConeOfArc]

As shown in the video there was some confusion around their purpose when the Germans introduced them. This is likely where part of the misconception originated from

[@robertstonebreaker8394]

Very good video I was not very good with physics but it is definitely used here

[@torresmus.terrificus]

5:19 california's big squirt 💀

[@AndrewVasirov]

Like they say... California knows how to party.

[@PitFriend1]

The effectiveness of spaced armor depends not only on the thickness of the extra armor but also the space between the armor and the main tank armor. The effective jet from a HEAT warhead is a fixed distance. The jet treats the empty space the same as actual armor. So for example f the HEAT warhead will penetrate 100mm/10cm of armor like the original bazooka had the penetrating jet only would go that far and still be effective. So a plate thick enough to detonate the warhead 10cm away from the tank’s main armor has the same effect of adding 10cm of armor to the tank and would totally prevent the warhead from damaging it. This stopped being as effective when warheads started getting more and more powerful so the spaced armor would need to be further and farther away from the tank.

[@serbserb3649]

It's incredible how you can be so wrong so confidently

[@ConeOfArc]

Yes and no. The air between the spaced armor and the main armor does reduce the penetration slightly, but the jet is not a fixed length. You can see proof of this in the video clip of the BMP being shot as the jet goes MUCH further than the ~400mm of penetration that weapon can achieve. To effectively stop a HEAT round you either need an astronomical amount of spacing before the main armor plate or something denser than air. That is why composites work well at stopping HEAT because they are able to reduce the energy before it achieves penetration.

[@apyllyon]

@@ConeOfArc Indeed.If memory serves correctly US Ordnance depot did a study on this in 1944 fixing a sherman with specially made plastic or plastic-cement compound.. The results was that the amount of physical layering required made it beefier than a jumbo, very little overal improvement in protection,and massive amount of added weight, along with the added issues.

[@jsmith498]

So, I think he's saying at the end that a skirt might possibly change the angle at which an explosive shell hits the sloping armour. Therefore defeating the whole point of the slope.

[@Dodgerambo100]

The "schürzen" were installed to reduce the spalding of the Main armour if it is hittet by APHE or HE rounds. The reason why later models uses only mashes. The Main reason was to initiate the Explosion of any projectile befor it hits the Tank.

[@ConeOfArc]

No it wasn't, the documents relating to it specifically state it was for protection against AT rifles. Anything else it protected against was a bonus but not the intention

[@Spooky_Squash]

0:37 the little plushie just chilling on the t34s cable is kinda cute and funny edit: same with the panther too

[@elbolainas4174]

😭😭😭💢💢

[@judgemental9253]

Pausing in the beginning to put my guess in: the soviets loved anti tank rifles, which couldn’t pen the front but could pen the sides and rear, so they put thin metal in to break up the bullet and make it lose too much energy to punch through the thin side armor?

[@Del_S]

They were extra parts to be optional in future model kits, of course.

[@kriegsmarineluftwaffe1378]

So that doesn’t explain the mesh side skirts seen on late war German tanks. They won’t effectively stop anti talk rounds like the solid ones would but they would probably be effective against heat and he. So did they conciser it later on?

[@ConeOfArc]

I did mention the mesh briefly, it was simply another option for the material of the skirts to stop AT rifles

[@T1ger-tank]

Not sure how accurate this is but i tested the panzer4 H’s side plates against a heat shell from the M1a2 sepv2 in WT and it stopped the heat shell and it didn’t penn the side of the panzer 4

[@eqwqewrt]

wait if schurzen was originally designed to stop 14.5mm hvap rounds from ptrds and ptrs', what were the flaps for the t64a and t62m1 for then?

[@ryssa2409]

Heat ammo

[@kryts27]

A good lesson on armour and anti-tank shells like HEAT. Next, how APDS works.

[@axelbengtsson8195]

A new upload from MrSteveGamer!

[@Hornet_Legion]

since tigers and ferdinands didnt have schurzen i think it would be safe to say it was designed to weaken anti-tank rifle projectiles that if they hit unskirted side armor even if they didnt fully penetrate they might unleash spall or plugs of steel flying through the inside of the tank.

[@Kuschel_K]

Sideskirts did certainly not make the Panther II obsolete. The Panthers lower side armor is 40mm, which is already scraping the potential for a 14.5mm to go through. Just making the plate 5mm thicker would have made it nearly impossible to get penetrated by Soviet AT rifles. The side skirts on the Panther and Tiger II most likely protect against HE rounds that would penetrate the the sponons floor armor, if they hit above the tracks. As well as protecting from direct hits against the tracklinks by HE rounds. The Panther was still very vulnerable from the sides to T-34s and Shermans and even Soviet 45mm AT guns, thus the increased side armor of the Panther II would simply increased the survivability against such threats.

[@ConeOfArc]

I meant to say something along the lines of "unnecessary" as I corrected in the subtitles. Didn't have another good take for that line though

[@jonahkolell]

Awesome video!

[@scooter66133]

StuG + schuerzen = looks really really cool .

[@MALICEM12]

it also kinda made the PZ.4 looks like a Tiger 1, which definitely impacted enemy morale and contributed to "Tiger fear"

[@unfortunatereplica8442]

I remember watching a vid on the ptrs-41, and hearing that Germans installed the skirts to stop the rifle

[@Menjoro]

Minor nit-pick: please explain/note what x and y axis of graphs are. The graphs are too small to see

[@FingerStyleGuita63]

That was a great video! I'd love to understand more how anti tank rifles found such effect? I feel like heat explosives make sense using effectively plasma to get truth armor. But how does a large caliber rifle round find comparable success?

[@mab2187]

WT taught me that, no HEAT won't be stopped cus the jet of the heat is still powerful enough, even if detonating with some air gaps.

[@CMDRFandragon]

how would a wire mesh stop a ATR?

[@ashab4444]

Nice pictures and video clips

[@peterking8586]

Even on Chieftain & Challenger the skirting plates are considered a defense against HEAT.

[@donovanchau3483]

It’s interesting that later Pz. III models despite having the thickest side armor of all the German mediums still had the skirts when they were immune to the initial AT rifle threat.

[@wolf310ii]

The Pz III didnt had the thickes side armor, it had max 30mm, the Pz IV Ausf E had 40mm (2x20mm), and the russian AT rifles could penetrate up to 40mm, so the Pz III wasnt immune

[@Damien_N]

I didn’t know that the jet is pushed through the armour with intense kinetic energy, not through temperature or chemical interactions, essentially acting like a sharp cutting blade. With the added benefit of the metal particles post penetration behaviour aiding in the damage caused.