Conquer Rumination | Greenberg's Way

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

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[@eddiebaby22]

I think Dr Greenberg is onto something, his theory could be a bit of a game changer. Think it might be one of the best for people out there.

[@RadoslavTemelkov]

Mrs. Pradko, your videos are interesting and helpful. OCD is related to rumination and this problem should be addressed. Anxiety and obsessive thoughts are extremely debilitating. Although some people realize that their thoughts do not make sense. The disorder causes them to perform compulsive behaviors to get rid of their presence. This state has the ability to suggest things that simply aren't true.

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

Yes, very true. 😊

[@Joethebro101]

Paige, you’re the best! Ok, so I put it into TA/AA which is Thoughts, Awareness/Attention, Analyzing. The knock at the door of ocd is your thoughts and awareness (which is fine). If you open the door you are directing attention or analyzing (doing the physical or mental compulsions). No matter how hard the ocd knocks don’t answer that door!🌹

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

I love that! Thanks for sharing! ❤️

[@cerealis_5432]

How can you make yourself “unaware” of intellectual inadequacies and social ineptitudes when you’re constantly being reminded of these insecurities through lived experiences? I’ve been struggling with obsessive unwanted thoughts regarding my intelligence, competence, personality/wit and ability to connect with others and be my “authentic” self for several years and it’s completely consumed me. Feeling like I’m uninteresting, have no personality, passions/interests, redeemable qualities, never having anything to say in conversations, etc. I feel like a fraud no matter what I do, and can never just be or have a moment where these thoughts don’t plague me. even doing things as simple as choosing a tv show to watch fill me with dread because I can never find the one that’s just right, then I think about how others are finding better ways to entertain themselves and occupy their mind without the extensive mental effort. It’s very tiring when despite my best efforts to disregard the thoughts and view myself in a positive light I’m always proving myself right and ending up in situations that only reinforce the negative thoughts

[@Insouciant9]

I think it’s important to remind yourself that these judgments are incredibly subjective. You may believe you’re encountering constant evidence that confirms and reinforces the negative self-perception, but there are some 8 billion other people who would perceive you in their own unique ways. Many of whom would view you completely opposite to how you see yourself. Your self judgments are just as subjective as anyone’s. If this perception can’t be objective, then focus on utility instead. Are these thoughts benefiting you or harming you? Maybe some part of your brain believes the constant self criticism is helping you by preventing you from doing even more embarrassing things. If so, how’s that working? What would be a more beneficial perception/opinion to have of yourself? It’s okay to be delusional about this…you already are. Swap the negative for something more inspiring.

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

Beautiful response ❤️

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

I am sorry that you are struggling with this, as there is no greater pain than shame, and it seems like you are shaming yourself. I am also noticing that you are seeing yourself through a lens of “I don’t measure up”, “I am not good enough”. It is likely you have had this bias about yourself for a very long time. We call those biases schemas. We all have schemas or a certain biased lens from which we see ourselves and others and the world in general. You are seeing yourself as defective. It was interesting because reading your response I thought you were amazingly vulnerable, authentic, intelligent and interesting. Just the kind of person I would love to talk to. The kind of person who thinks very deeply about things. If there is even a small part of you that can recognize that in yourself, then I want to encourage you to honor that part of you. None of us are interesting all of the time. We can run into problems when we “try” to search for something to say. You may want to try just listening to others and asking them follow-up questions about what they just said. That way, you can take the pressure off of yourself to try to think up what to talk about. If someone told you those things about yourself that you described, I certainly would say that that is emotional abuse and it is unacceptable. Life is hard enough without emotionally abusing ourselves as well. I hope that you can shift your view of yourself to something more helpful. Something like…”I am a person who would like to be accepted by others no matter what I share or say and no matter how I appear in the moment. Deep down I care about people and want to be included and loved and accepted by others. And if people were to get to know me, they would know that I am a deep thinker and have many interesting thoughts and interests.”

[@jadejedi3319]

I feel like I’m “bracing” for something. Physically, even though I’m not actively thinking it, I still physically feel tense and my head feels stressed and has pressure. Idk how to fix this.

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

It sounds like you are stressed and tense. Rather than trying to think through a solution, perhaps you can try to physically move and stretch. Maybe a walk in nature will help to burn up some of the adrenaline and cortisol in your body that is creating that tension.

[@johandeen6096]

I have the same problem. It's because you can give something attention without actually thinking about it. So what happens is that the stress and tension needs to go. You start paying attention without thinking (try to focus on your hands for the next 10 minutes, you will notice that it does not require thinking to focus on your hands). So what happens is that my attention is always with the tense and stress feeling which makes me tense and stress full. In the mean time in trying to not focus on the stress but i can't stop it. Because you can't force not paying attention to something. But 'm unable to stop trying to stop focussing on it. So im stuck in a loop hope that makes sense. I'm basically trying to do nothing. How would you approach this?

[@AngelineProductions]

This - and my brain does not understand that the obsession is not a “real threat.” It’s the urge to “solve the problem” that’s the issue with me.

[@Joethebro101]

Excellent video Paige. One of the best out there for ocd. You got it!

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

Thank You. 🙏❤️

[@konsejitos]

Thank you for another wonderful, informational and helpful, video.

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

You’re welcome, Hector. Thank you for watching. 😊

[@RosyLife79]

Myo-inositol helps my intrusive thoughts and ruminations. You can also take it with Choline.

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

I am glad they help you.

[@adamarmstrong9408]

How much do you take?

[@Joethebro101]

Truthfully, Greenberg’s approach of rumination focused erp is so much better than the old traditional habituation focused erp. I don’t think the habituation works and the only reason there’s evidence for the old approach is because they got the response prevention correct.

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

Could be. We don’t have comparative research yet. I would love to see a few different treatment modalities including Greenberg’s method used in a large study.

[@dm.25]

I think sport is the best medicine . It kinda worked for me

[@ananddayal1631]

Excellent work

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

Thank you 😊

[@GodlessPhilosopher]

Thanks for covering this!

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

My pleasure!

[@ConfuzzledOwO]

my rumination is triggered through conflict and being criticized. I have such an innate desire to repair the relationship and achieve peace with the person that i constantly rehash interactions ive had with them in the past to try and pinpoint how ive been bad, how im at fault, and what im supposed to do to fix my behavior. If i disagree with their criticisms about me and i think they're being unfair, its made even worse that i start thinking that i MUST be bad if i can't see their criticism as valid. i have imaginary arguements in my head and excessive need for defending and continuously typing up responses to these people in efforts to explain and hopefully come to a compromise, but never end up sending it to them because nothing ever seems good enough. there always a hole in everything i say, no matter what i always think my response is going to be taken poorly or wrongly somehow and that they will then use that response to say, "see? Look how wrong and bad you are". In my head nothing is good enough, but then i think i need to just do more work then thinking about it to figure out how to craft the perfect response to keep the peace. I don't understand how to stop it, listening to this video all i heard was just "stop ruminating" and i dont understand how if not to find a distraction. Its upsetting and im frustrated and i wish it was more straightforward. mental gymnastics to stop negative thoughts never made sense to me, i even find the practice of breathing exercises frustrating because even though im breathing deeply the thoughts still come in. It doesnt feel like im a hamster on a nonstop wheel that I can choose to get off, it feels like my brain is a broken record getting stuck on loop. Desperately looking for alternative advice or a more in depth explanation, because i just dont understand.

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

It is very challenging to just stop ruminating. The technique I use is to allow the urge to ruminate to float in the mind, and then use attention training or shifting your focus to something else in the moment. It helps if it is an activity like playing a musical instrument is a great way to shift focus. I was also wondering if you go through mental gymnastics when you are in a conflict or disagreement with someone you are not in a relationship with. If so, this may be moral scrupulosity mixed in where you are fearful of being a “bad” person in some way.

[@ConfuzzledOwO]

@@PaigePradkoTherapy thanks for your response i appreciate your input. I think i misunderstood initially when you mentioned in the video to be able to stop ruminating without distraction as you arent able to shift your focus to another activity. It definitely does help when i am focused on another task, but i thought thatd be something thats considered a distraction. Ive never heard the term moral scrupulosity before as im only recently considering that i may have OCD, so i appreciate you bringing it to my attention

[@shawnleong3605]

To be honest, Greenberg's way as well as Inference-based cbt make more sense to me as someone who has predominantly intrusive thoughts and mental compulsions. Traditional ERP just sounds too cruel to me, and does not address root causes. I have seen many people online who claim they benefitted immensely from his approach and outlook. Just my two cents!

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

Yes, those methods make sense to me as well. But, we do not have any evidenced-based research yet on Greenberg’s method and are still waiting on a meta analysis study on I-CBT. ERP has the largest body of evidence at this time and has helped and continues to help so many people. But how exciting that there are more choices for treatment and we may some day have more evidence-based choices. Until then, what works best for each individual is what I recommend.

[@Joethebro101]

You’re correct. I think the whole approach to obsessions regarding habituation exposure focused erp is wrong. I think the reason it is evidenced-based is because they got the response prevention correct.

[@scotchvelo]

My frightening thoughts feel "different." I am plagued by depressing, catastrophizing, impending doom thoughts that scare me to death: "everything is hopeless, we're all doomed, everything is meaningless, etc etc." Sometimes there's not even a thought, it's just an intense wave of fear. NONE of these thoughts or feelings seem attached to anything actually happening in my life. Can this method help me? I know that years of therapy and "mindfulness" has done nothing for me. The reason I'm still trying to solve this issue is because it creates intense suffering so of course I'm going to stop the pain. Is stopping ruminating the same as ignoring the thoughts, feelings and fear? Thanks.

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

It sounds like you are suffering from existential OCD. The method in the video may help you. I also have an OCD online program that may help. Here is more information: www.paigepradko.com/ocd

[@danielfoot4977]

Therapies not working because your trying to solve unsolvable unknowable things that’s the crux of existential OCD

[@amandam480]

I just have alot of really negative imaginary conversations with people. Not sure how to stop that.

[@liamkay6456]

Hi ive been using the MG method and was wondering... how do you not pay attention to something thats causes you distress? Thank you!

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

It is difficult, but you do have control over rumination. It may feel automatic, but it is not. I prefer the I. A.M. Method (I. Identify, A. Allow, M. Shift in the Moment.) In the I. A.M. method the first thing you do is identify that the thought is OCD. Or Identify that you are ruminating. Then, the subject matter does not matter anymore because you know it is OCD. You then allow the thought to float there in your brain while you shift your attention or focus in the moment. You take your attention off the content of the thought whenever something is identified as OCD.

[@adamarmstrong9408]

Can you do this with catastrophizing? Or over thinkng?

[@AlwynRainMystic]

i am having rumination about something my partner said to me which makes me think he doens't love me, i keep ruminating on it trying to find an answer that says its possible he does love me. everytime the thought comes in my head i need to ruminate and problem solve on it, and then i find an answer thats allows me to interpret what he said in another way although i feel unlikely as long as i feel there is a slight chance he might love me, i can feel relief for a few minutes but then the doubt or new 'what ifs' pop up and i start ruminating and problem solving again, i am stuck in this cycle all day. i have tried not engaging with the thoughts and sad feelings and distracting myself, which helps a bit but the thoughts and feelings are not fully gone, even though i am not engaging. what do i do, how do i stop the thoughts and feelings completely ? (i have had ocd my whole life, i have all of the ocd themes' recently its become about my relationship)

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

You have different options of treatment. You can use ERP and do exposures on those thoughts while practicing response prevention and that means no analyzing, ruminating or seeking reassurance. You could use my I. A.M. method, or you could use I-CBT method. I have an OCD course and cover treatment for ROCD at paigepradko.com if you need more help.

[@PlanetWomble]

Thanks Paige

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

You’re welcome. I love your user name 😊

[@ujjwaladiya2471]

thank you

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

You're welcome ☺️

[@tradslnd9872]

Wtf in all my life I didn’t know my “normal” thinking was ruminating after watching the part of the questions. It feels weird not thinking rn 😢

[@tradslnd9872]

The questions zapped the thoughts away, it made me realise I’m always trying to figure out how to solve all the wrongs done to me as I’ve been through immense npd abuse, I’m scared of not thinking as much anymore, what does this mean?

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

Yes, it can be shocking to learn that we are ruminating on purpose and that it does not just occur unless we make it happen. I hope this video helps you to stop or at least become more aware when you are ruminating and practice stopping. I went through the same learning process years ago and have gotten so much better at stopping.

[@GodlessPhilosopher]

Very curious what you think of his latest material on the psychodynamic approach

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

I find Greenberg’s writing on Malan’s Model of OCD interesting and think that it has a place for integration into OCD treatment. For those of us that are working everyday with people suffering from OCD, we know that it is not all biology. Even ones themes in OCD come from somewhere, they are not just random. They may come from emotional and relational dynamics as Malan suggests. They may come from a feared vulnerable self as the I-CBT authors suggest. They may come from trauma. OCD also seems to act up in a protective way. For example, if someone is going through a stressful period in their life. It is not the stressful event or relationship or situation they will focus on, it is their OCD obsession that will take over. So, in some ways, I agree with Malan and Greenberg that emotion and attention are possibly misdirected or at least influencing their OCD. Although the largest body of research still points to behavioral methods like ERP for OCD treatment. It only makes sense to continue studies on how we can nuance and combine different treatments to offer clients a more effective treatment experience.

[@beatsbyvigil6860]

His methods don’t make sense to me. It seems like it’s just going to frustrate people because stopping rumination will always feel like work in a highly anxious person. The only way it won’t feel like much work is if you aren’t very anxious. And ruminating does not cause anxiety disorders. Its a symptom of anxiety. But I will keep learning his method. Maybe there is something to learn. Any techniques are worth a try.

[@miscojones7503]

I don't understand why mindfulness stops someone from ending rumination

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

It is all about where you focus your attention. It is not mindfulness exactly, but more choosing where to direct your attention. I like my clients to focus on doing an activity even though their thoughts may be present in their minds.

[@truthsayer13]

Hi Paige, thanks for this video. I have a question. Would you say that to treat ocd eliminating rumination is more effective than ERP? I've read that ERP can keep ocd chronic as once you've done exposures for one theme, it can switch to another. I'd love your thoughts. Thanks again (-:

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

At this point in time, ERP has a large body of research and is considered an evidence-based treatment for OCD. Greenberg’s approach and other similar approaches are not yet evidenced based treatments. They have not been extensively studied and reviewed. That doesn’t mean they are not effective. I don’t believe it is “more” effective, but it is another option for people. I believe that people should have several tools to use, several treatment options and not just one choice. 😊

[@ninjatall15]

Timestamps - [00:00] 🧠 Understanding Rumination and Anxiety - Introduction to the connection between rumination and anxiety. - Rumination is a mental engagement with problems. - The video offers insight into Dr. Michael Greenberg's techniques to combat rumination. - [01:06]🕵‍♂ Key Concepts: Rumination, Awareness, and Directed Attention - Explains the concepts of rumination, awareness, and directed attention. - Distinguishes between what we can and cannot control in our thoughts. - Introduces the idea of a mental spotlight and how we choose to focus it. - [02:30] 🐦 Greenberg's Method for Stopping Rumination - Discusses Greenberg's method for stopping rumination. - Emphasizes the importance of not tryingto solve the problem leading to rumination. - Advises against actively pushing thoughts out or keeping them at the forefront. - [03:37]🧮 Litmus Test for Successful Rumination Cessation - Presents a litmus test to determine if rumination has stopped. - Evaluates current anxiety levels and the effort exerted in stopping rumination. - Identifies common reasons for continued rumination. - [05:38] 🧩 Role of Distraction in Rumination - Explores the role of distraction in managing rumination. - Differentiates between helpful and harmful types of distraction. - Discusses the contrast between Greenberg's approach and traditional exposure response prevention (ERP). - [07:28] 📚 Greenberg's Approach vs. Traditional Methods - Compares Greenberg's approach to traditional methods for treating OCD and rumination. - Highlights the lack of extensive research on Greenberg's method. - Emphasizes the importance of not engaging with obsessions for true recovery. - [08:06] 🛠 Varied Approaches in Treating OCD and Rumination - Discusses the use of various treatment methods for OCD and rumination. - Introduces the IM method and its similarities to Greenberg's suggestions. - Encourages the understanding and utilization of different recovery tools.

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

Thank you

[@shashwatpriyadarshi972]

Hello Mrs.Pradko I am a radiologist from India and I have been suffering from OCD since 1997.But I started medications very late rather as late as 2012.I take Fluvoxamine and 0.5mg of Risperidone everyday. Also as a doctor I feel there is a lot of anxiety and mild depression along side OCD. My biggest problem is that there is a constant chatter in my mind most of it irrational imaginary thoughts.I get so engrossed in those thoughts that there are times when there is tooth grinding,muscle flexion .Today i was holding my mobile during a bout of irrational thought surge and I felt as if i would crush my mobile. I am very distressed.Please help

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

I’m sorry that you are dealing with that kind of tension. You’re right in that anxiety and sometimes depression accompanies OCD. I wonder if overall stress management practices, moderate exercise, walks in nature, yoga, sharing your feelings or journaling would help to alleviate some of that stress. Also, if you are dealing with intrusive thoughts, have you done ERP or used an approach like the I. A.M. method? I have a course that will walk you through the number one way to recover from OCD and intrusive thoughts. Here are some resources for you: The Top 10 Things you Need to Know to Practice ERP: Exposure and Response Prevention for OCD, Phobias and Anxiety www.paigepradko.com/erp OCD course www.paigepradko.com/ocd

[@pedroorta872]

My ocd is harm intrusive thoughts.. im not araid of the content of the thought but afraid of the thought poping up in general.. it pops up if im around a specific family member...its always on my mind.. its like im trying to control my thoughts.. what do u suggest i do.?

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

Allow the thoughts to pop up. Allow them to be there. This is how your brain learns that you can tolerate thoughts and move on.

[@johandeen6096]

Hi Paige, I have a focus problem related to body sensations. For example, I feel dizzy. Not because I'm actually Dizzy but because I'm focussing on it for 24/7. This problem rotates between many sensations like tinnitus, stress, heart palpitations. Everything i have a feeling I Dont want my focus wont get off which makes the feeling worse and in turn makes my focus on that feeling worse and causes more thoughts. I'm unable to stop this process. I know trying to stop focussing on it is the solution. Letting the sensations be there without doing anything but I'm unable to do that. I'm stuck in trying. I'm stuck in wanting to do something about it. What would you suggest?

[@johandeen6096]

For some reason I can't edit my comment. I wanted to add that you can move your mental spotlight without thinking and that is my main problem. The mental checking. I can think about something like work but in the meantime focus on bodily sensations because they annoy me. Im not actively thinking about them but i still give them attention of that makes sense. So I'm trying to stop the mental checking but I'm not able to stop that. No matter what I do, my mental spotlight is always inwards.

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

Hi Johan. Yes, I understand what you are describing. Many people with health anxiety OCD and somatic awareness OCD experience body sensations that seem to monopolize their attention. We cannot force a thought out of our head, nor can we force the awareness of a body sensation to stop. But, we can get better at shifting our focus and attention and we can stop the mental checking. I cover these in my health anxiety and OCD courses and discuss them in my community (WarmHeart Hub) and teach multiple techniques as one size does not fit all. You can find my resources at paigepradko.com. My personal favorite is the I. A.M. Method (I have somatic awareness OCD regarding my breathing). Here is a video on that approach: Master OCD & Rumination: Try the I. A.M. Method kzbin.info/www/bejne/qGSvaWl4o9WJmas

[@johandeen6096]

@@PaigePradkoTherapy I've heard of this technique but it seems for me that anytime I'm trying to do something about it (whichever that technique might be) becomes the compulsion. My symptoms are completely gone when I'm not doing anything about them but this always happens in an unaware state if that makes sense. I'm not doing anything in that moment because I'm not consciously thinking about it. But once I notice the sensation and telling myself I should not do anything about it then it becomes an obsession on how to do that. In other words, whenever I'm trying to do something about it consciously it because I'm hoping that will make the sensation go away. For example, when lying in bed I always have heart palpitations because I know that will keep me from falling asleep. But during the day I never have them because I dont have to sleep during the day. So during the day I,m accepting the heart palpitations but without consciously accepting or doing something. But once I'm in bed again I,m trying to consciously accept the sensation or not falling asleep but them I'm getting stuck in applying techniques. And I think because I know that these techniques should help me making the sensations less severe (in other words, I use the techniques to make the sensation stop) but that will not work. I,m unable to accept in that moment. The urge to fall asleep is stronger then accepting the heart palpitations to be there. Does that make sense? Is this behaviour covered in your course?

[@vincentvuong7641]

How do I redirect my direct attention and mentally let go, then let awareness wander?

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

This is a form of attention/awareness shifting.

[@vincentvuong7641]

Thanks for the response. One of the exercise he mentioned, just let the awareness wander kzbin.info/www/bejne/jGKbqatjg9isY7ssi=Fhgv1MSdK5bqEVlx My mind keeps directing attention on my throat to see if it left, most of the day I think of this.

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

@@vincentvuong7641 In this particular exercise he is trying to show you how to change from directed attention to attention wandering. In other exercises on his website he describes intentionally directing your focused attention. But the key to all of these exercises is to allow the awareness (of your throat in your case) but at the same time, do not intentionally focus on it. He describes opening the hand to let the fly go when it wants to go. It takes practice, but it is probably easier to practice at first by choosing something else. Try to do his exercise by focusing on your right, big toe. See if that helps you to understand his method better.

[@vincentvuong7641]

@PaigePradkoTherapy I see. So when I try to focus on whatever I'm doing at hand, I am kind of directing attention on my throat as well, so is like paying attention to two things at once. So do I just shift intentionally direct attention task at hand?

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

@@vincentvuong7641 He is not actually doing that in the example you shared. He is more allowing the awareness, but he is not actively engaging with it. Instead, he is allowing his awareness and attention to wander (in that example). He doesn’t want you to purposely attend to your throat. He is saying…yes, it’s there…if you don’t purposely focus on it or purposely focus on something else, it will resolve itself naturally. Personally, I teach a technique called the I. A.M. technique where you allow your sensation and awareness, but you do intentionally shift to something else. I find this technique similar, but easier and more effective: Master OCD & Rumination: Try the I. A.M. Method kzbin.info/www/bejne/qGSvaWl4o9WJmas

[@santhoshreddyvanga8677]

Is rumination a OCD?

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

Rumination is a mental compulsion and it can be seen in people with OCD or GAD or other anxiety disorders.

[@mohamedhassan8681]

How can i connect with you , i am from egypt and i am going to doctors and no one can treat me ,they give me anti-depressent for 8 years . I am a teacher ,i am suffering from controllessness.please Help me , i have dreams and want to achieve it .

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

I am so sorry you are in distress. I am not understanding exactly what you are suffering from. Do you mean you are suffering from a lack of control or over control?

[@mohamedhassan8681]

@@PaigePradkoTherapy Yes, I cannot control myself . All over my past life , i cannot live the moment . I live in the future . When i am talking to anyone , i can see he connot listen to my talking because he lives the moment now . I am so pleasure that you reply my comment . Thanks

[@mohamedhassan8681]

@@PaigePradkoTherapy i have a mental disorder that called dipersonalization .i have illustrated u the symptoms in the other comment. That is because my childhood was extremely cruel..and no fun ,..... How can u help me ?

[@PaigePradkoTherapy]

Hi Mohamed. I have a course for people that have anxiety symptoms including depersonalization and derealization from episodes of panic and anxiety. For people that have dpdr from trauma, I recommend trauma treatment. It is possible that prolonged exposures and interoceptive exposures could help, but not all people with dpdr are helped by those therapies.

[@Sereneis]

Very confusing presentation