High Mushroom Intake, High Homocysteine?

[@Kingramze]

Fascinating follow-up on the mushroom mystery

[@bestdoom1236]

That's a lot of hard work and discipline. Glad you seem to be getting some emerging impact on Homocysteine.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks @bestdoom1236. 3y to potentially figure it out (21 tests)...

[@ameliacavallaro8067]

Hey Michael, two thoughts. I'm an experimental physicist, so chasing correlations and using them to figure out causation is my job for the most part. Some thoughts from things I've dealt with over the years that are applicable now that your n is getting larger. 1) In this video, you're fitting a linear regression to two clusters of data, far apart in terms of x (mushroom consumption). You can get a strong correlation, with a large r and small p value in situations like these while completely neglecting the trend. Particularly, if on the left there is a confounder (B12 consumption). In the cluster of data to the right, by eye there is clearly something going on, but the exact slope is unclear and this does not account for other potential correlations 2) Performing an OLS regression on e.g. the 3 most significant quantities may help answer that final question you have. Regressing homocysteine levels on mushroom intake, B12 intake, and protein intake would be an interesting result.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Yep, thanks @ameliacavallaro8067, I'll check the data in that model!

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

I just ran that analysis, mushroom intake vs homocysteine after adjusting for protein and B12, and mushrooms aren't significantly associated with homocysteine (p=0.20) within that context. More directly, though, for the next test, mushroom intake will stay the same, and protein and B12 will be on the lower end, relative to the last test. If homocysteine stays at 9uM, then it suggests reducing mushroom intake is the cause...

[@ameliacavallaro8067]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 Yes I would be inclined to agree. If you restrict your data to the right cluster, where you get some decent range in mushroom intake and (if I'm understanding correctly) B12 was ~constant, you might get something significant. Filling out some space in slightly lower mushroom intake to extend the range would be informative as well I expect.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Yep, thanks @@ameliacavallaro8067, that's the plan. Also good news is that other biomarkers weren't impacted by the mushroom cut-in contrast, the cut was in conjunction with my best epigenetic results to date.

[@ameliacavallaro8067]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 That's perhaps a good sign, but losing your main source of ergothioneine and spermidine may have consequence in markers you aren't yet measuring.

[@user_375a82]

Clever stuff - no extra comment as its above my knowledge level.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks @BR-hi6yt. it's only 1 test, but is promising-if I can repeat it over and over, then I agree about it being clever

[@javadhashtroudian5740]

Thank you; this is very useful. At 77, I take a huge amount of nicotinamide, but I also take beets (either fresh or powder). My homocysteine levels have gone down from 12.6 to 11.6 in the last nine months.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Nice-this emphasizes that there isn't a 1-size-fits- all-diet, and the only way to know is to test! For this test, I was averaging 330g of raw beets/d-that TMG amount doesn't make a dent in my case.

[@alan2102X]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 Cheers. I assume you've assured your supply of the usual Hcy detox vitamins B12 and folic acid. But a couple others are involved but seldom mentioned: riboflavin and pyridoxine, and also N-acetylcysteine. Pyridoxine helps detox Hcy and also protects against its adverse effects; under-appreciated vitamin. It's looking to me like glutathione upregulation may be the key thing for Hcy control. Also, do you have a citation, or PMID, for that paper on niacinamide and Hcy? TIA.

[@alan2102X]

Would still appreciate a citation, or PMID, for that paper on niacinamide and Hcy. Cheers!

[@JohnDoe-os3mc]

looks like an interesting series coming up

[@jpintero6330]

Have you tried riboflavin supplementation? Here is a cool study: "Effect of riboflavin status on the homocysteine-lowering effect of folate in relation to the MTHFR (C677T) genotype".

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Not yet, but riboflavin is a possible option

[@Droidzi]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 check out Chris Masterjohn PHD's KZbin presentation on MTHFR and Riboflavin (if you haven't already)

[@alan2102X]

Underappreciated vitamin! See PMID 19390751 -- riboflavin 10mgs/day reduces Hcy in elders with marginal riboflavin status. (Which might be a LOT of people, since low riboflavin and/or low glutathione reductase - a B2 enzyme - prevails in majority.)

[@KST9182]

Excellent data - thank you. Fingers crossed it’s mushrooms as it seemed a high dose daily for practical normal everyday consumption & let’s see with your next blood test(s). As you say, it may also (or) be the higher protein amount causing the issue. Either way, super interesting & awaiting outcome(s).

[@LVArturs]

His homocysteine negatively correlates with higher protein, not positively.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

@@LVArturs Yep, I think @KST9182 understands that, i.e., it could be higher protein, not lower mushrooms.

[@aljosarojac8575]

Beautiful video. Good analysis 👍

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks @aljosarojac8575!

[@matttee1319]

Great comment section.

[@eliaspfeffer]

Yup

[@GregariousAntithesis]

Mine at 58 male is 10, i also have the MFHFR gene.

[@abdelilahbenahmed4350]

Thx Prof Lustgarten for this great exploratory analysis. Waiting for the final results. Are you still taking 50 mg (or mcg ?) of Niacin ?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks Abdelilah, and yep on 50mg of nicotinic acid daily (more frequently than the past test)

[@monnoo8221]

great work, and very interesing regarding the methylation mystery. Seems that protein at least from some sources provides a good methylation capacity, which the body prefers over suplemented betaine. Ingestion of nicotinamide on the other hand depletes methylation "stores" as that's the way to remove NAM that is not being used in the salvage pathway. One point to consider then would probably be to take care the activity of NAMPT, in order to enhance the capacity of the salvage pathway. eg. quercetin or rALA are known as activators. That would reduce the consumption of methylation capacity that is obviously expected to be available for the hcys/meth cycle, and also support NAD availability. Homocysteine is really a thing... Thinking about that I just had a crazy idea... On the one hand Hcys can be detrimental for th endothelium and the basemembrane in the kidneys. A good vitamin C status and high HDL is proective, and the test for hcys does not distinguish between oxidised (=dangerous) and reduced form, and also not between free and bound. So, secondly, what if the hcys is not only a riddle for us, but also for the body, which can noot be completely solved. Instead, if Vit C status is good and HDL high, the body can sense the danger from oxHcys, and allows it to increase a bit, as it gets perfectly buffered. ... My Hcys is 15 (shockingly) but vit Cintake from natural and supp is 1500..2000mg, HDL is 80, eGFR is 124 and lp(a) as well as hsCRP not detectable...

[@gregmushen597]

Great video!

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks @gregmushen597!

[@inLofiLife]

interesting video, what's missing for me is what was your full diet during these tests? Looking only at mushrooms is insufficient IMHO because other foods (also eaten day before) could also impact the results.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

The diet on the day prior is close-to the same for every test, to minimize a potential impact on the next-day blood test. In contrast, I'm correlating the average daily intake in-between blood tests, which is about a 40d average.

[@jamesgilmore8192]

Mike -- When are you eating the mushrooms and protein? Are they the same time of day or in different meals? Homocysteine is cleared from plasma with a 3-4 hr half life and knowing when they are consumed could pin down causation.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Hi James, almost always in the early morning (~8AM), or at the latest, by 1PM

[@arihaviv8510]

So it is possible that load is a factor. Too much at one time vs spreading smaller more manageable amounts throughout the day

[@Musevendyi]

Have you not been aware of Dr. Patrick Holford’s finding, in conjunction with Oxford University’s research, that homocysteine levels can be reduced by taking B vitamins (principally B-12), but that approach 13:39 is effective ONLY when omega-3 fatty acid levels in the body are also sufficiently high. He has been professionally active with this area of research for some years. His concerns are with homocysteine levels related to brain shrinkage leading to dementia and cardiovascular risk factors, and many other health issues. Anecdotally, he treated his wife’s homocysteine level of 15 by supplementing with 500mcg. B12 and 1g. high quality omega3 fish oil daily. In three months her homocysteine level was down to 9, I believe. Please do a search for his KZbin interviews. Please let us know your opinion on this.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Covered in the video, did you watch it?

[@Musevendyi]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 My apologies. I did skip through the presentation rather quickly and I must have missed the relevant part. I will revisit it to see your opinion on the Holford view.

[@rolfpoelman3486]

Higher quality omega 3 is from 1 tbsp chia seed, freshly ground, mixed with ripe banana, every 2 days.

[@drytropics]

Tried phosphatidylcholine? My homocysteine was at 48 umol/L. I used a combination of multi-B, betaine, creatine, and phosphatidylcholine to get it down to 14 umol/L. Still too high but its bee😊n a big drop.

[@hanspoell]

I'm 47. I've been optimising my homocystein since improving my biomarkers the last 8 years. My homocystein was around 10 when I started and gradually I've got it down to 6 to 5 since 2023 consistently. I measure about 4 times per year every quarter with few exceptions. Oh and I eat a loot of mushrooms everyday as well as take supplements like codycepts and lionsmane. I'd never make that connection, but hey, who knows.

[@musaire]

What do you think are the main factors that brought it down to 6 to 5 ?

[@RodrigoOswego]

@@musaire most likely the tmg and creatine

[@rolfpoelman3486]

Replace the mushrooms and cordyceps and lion's mane with sweet raw tropical fruits. Increase fruits until 100%. And do the other healthier lifestyle habits eg vit d from a device to way above advised blood level, etc.

[@musaire]

@@rolfpoelman3486 Excess vitamin D can have adverse effects. Especially in case if vitamin A is low and in case of any tumors - as it is anti-inflammatory and so getting the body too tolerant towards abnormal cells as well (we need certain amount of inflammatory attack to take those down). So it depends. Also magnesium to activate vitamin D. Fruits luckily have okay amounts of Mg, though greens would have the most, greens and some whole seeds like pumpkin seeds etc.

[@rolfpoelman3486]

@@musaire No, you are talking about D being above 200, and only from supplement instead of UVB. UVB will not ever make D excessive. And omega 6 is pro inflammatory. The chia is the anti inflammatory omega 3. Fruits and greens do not have enough minerals and vitamins, thanks to people adding only NPK to the soil.

[@peanutnutter1]

It's not all about removal, reducing creation is a good strategy. Less meat consumption means less ingested creatine, this leads to more creation of creatine and the byproduct is homocysteine. Consider taking creatine at 2g/day.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Relative to most of my blood tests, It's only a 40g/ difference for meat (fish) intake, which I find hard to believe impacted homocysteine via creatine. We'll have more insight into the protein or mushroom story vs homocysteine in a couple of weeks.

[@eruiluvatar236]

Was going to say that. If the protein is from animal sources creatine could explain it (fish have some too). There is animal data supporting homocysteine reduction with suplemental creatine (don't know if there is human data too) and creatine synthesis directly consumes methyl groups and forms homocysteine. I have read that creatine synthesis consumes 40% to 70% of the methyl groups with an omnivorous diet and Michael is not eating much meat and only some fish so that may explain it.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

@@eruiluvatar236 0 meat, other than fish for this test...

[@Kingramze]

Thank you for this insight. I'm going to try to remember to add it to the list of benefits of taking creatine, which declines with age.

[@anzerful]

High nicotinamide is correlated with Lower skin cancer according to studies

[@ChessMasterNate]

Congrats! Progress. Have you figured out the mouth bacteria? Do you plan to increase other sources of spermidine and ergothioneine to compensate for reduced mushroom consumption? Also, conceivable the homocysteine effect could be something else in the mushrooms, like spermidine and ergothioneine. Ergothioneine seems to have negative effects beyond some level, as you presented. It might be worth the effort to pin down the component of these mushrooms that is raising homocysteine. Or at least eliminating a few prime suspects. I assume you raised mushrooms to this level for some reason. Maybe by introducing some other kind of mushroom with lower levels of the likely culprit, you can retain those benefits. A video, listing all the targets not yet reached, would be interesting. And any blood biomarkers you have not covered, I would love to see. So many, I still don't know what optimal is for. Also, a few methodological points: 1. It is strongly suspected that the body sacrifices the future to some extent for youthful vigor to increase the chance of reproduction. By chasing youthful levels of things, it is possible that, that is counter to long life. As such, it may instead be preferable to follow "all cause mortality" preferentially where there is a discrepancy between these. 2. As you have said 100 times, association is not causation. But some things more directly measure levels of something that is clearly harmful or beneficial, having some clear mechanistic role, rather than just being correlated. Shouldn't those measures count more? 3. Maybe just summing positive and negative biomarkers is not optimal. Each may affect "All cause mortality" differently. If a food or other intervention sends 3 things down but just a little and affects "all cause mortality" in only a microscopic way, but greatly improves another, I would think that other should probably be favored. Thus, summing changes in "all cause mortality" makes more sense when choosing to alter the quantity or presence of some food or other intervention.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks @ChessMasterNate. Ha, it only took 21 tests to make progress, though. Not yet on Serratia-it might be a tooth infection, or under the gumline in the upper corner of my mouth. I'll see what my dentist can do in Sept about that. I haven't increased other sources of spermidine or ergothionine, for now, but the good news is that other biomarkers for this test were almost exactly the same as Test #4, except for epigenetic results, which got dramatically better (but for other reasons).

[@ps1364]

Really commend your discipline on this ongoing n of 1 trial. Iam curious about something you mentioned. High B12 iintake being associated with worsening of 4 other markers - which ones are they?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

thanks @ps1364. B12 is significantly correlated with higher RBCs and lower homocysteine (right direction), but higher hsCRP platelets, LDL, BUN, and ALP (wrong direction), for a net -3 correlative score.

[@ps1364]

That's interesting. I wouldn't have expected those to go up with B12 necessarily. Have you tried mixed models on your data or random forest like methods to account for complex interactions and unmeasurable confounders?

[@jontpt]

You might want to consider magnesium levels as well, and increase them as needed, whether through food or supplements...

[@friedux2065]

Interesting. I would also look into Joe Cohen'w strategies for lowering homocysteine, he has familial issues with it and has tried many experiments to get his levels down. I believe MSM and Methylfolate helped most.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Yep, thanks, I'm familiar with Joe's approach

[@johnvanderpol2]

Short interval increase (like 1 month, and see how long the effects hold)?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

59 days in-between tests Measuring again in 2 weeks (38 days since the 7/26 test), stay tuned...

[@mirks4755]

Danke!

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks @mirks4755!

[@ladagspa2008]

I agree with the other guy. Take creatine monohydrate 1 gram a day (microdose). hcy will fall and hopefully other biomarkers wont be impacted.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

I'm not opposed to creatine use, but optimizing homocysteine via diet is the 1st-pass strategy for all biomarkers.

[@ladagspa2008]

​@@conqueragingordietrying123That's your choice. But my hcy is 13 without vs 9 with creatine on my lacto vegetarian diet.

[@karsten600]

It sounds kind of contrary to your slogan "Conquer aging or die trying" when you pass on taking high levels of b12 which could potentially improve your homocysteine levels. Especially considering that the negative downsides for the other 4 biomarkers are just correlations. Anyway, it is still super interesting to follow your quest. I am here secretly hoping for some breakthroughs 🌞

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Ah, but let's keep an eye on the big picture-most of my biomarkers are youthful, so taking high-dose B12 may not make them better. I may include it again at some point, to test its correlations...

[@karsten600]

​@@conqueragingordietrying123 Definitely! I'm excited for your results! 😊

[@jamesgilmore8192]

@@karsten600 There is also evidence that high B12 levels aren't favourable for longevity. Its the minimum effective dose for B12 IMHO.

[@mirks4755]

Hey Michael. Good report on your data. I m 49 at an homocysteine of 5,43. Coming from around 8 to 9 ten years ago. You say that 4 biomarkers get in the wrong direction by increasing B12. Which are these? Thanks in advance

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Hi @mirks4755, following Test #6 in 2024, B12 currently has a -2 net correlative score: Going in the right direction: lower homocysteine higher albumin higher RBCs Wrong direction: higher ALP higher hsCRP higher BUN higher LDL higher platelets Note that these are correlations, and many factors may be involved, but it suggests that higher B12 in my case (exclusively from supplementation) may not be good. The story might be different for others, though.

[@mirks4755]

Hey Michael. Thank you. In my case i see no correlation between high B12(sups+eggs) and platelets, LDL and especially CRP. I will stay on high B12 at around 1250(far beyond german recommendation) cause i feel good overall. I keep on watching your channel. 🙏

[@musaire]

Mr. Lustgarten This is downstream approach anyways to deal with it by increasing the methyl donation levels (plus methylated nicotinamide and its further metabolites in excess amounts is not healthy anyways ). Have you tried (not seen all earlier videos from your past) more directly increasing the levels of NAMPT enzyme activity which competes with methylation pathway? - So more of the nicotinamide is reverted back to salvage and so not using methyl groups and turning SAM into homocysteine. Probably not easy to do the latter by whole foods alone. Although using any niacin derivatives or niacin rich foods in the deepest fasting state could have some effect theoretically because AMPK also activates NAMPT. Alternatively, somewhat more refined substances, rutin (more bioavailable and offering healthy quercetin levels) and pterosilbene/resveratrol are one the NAMPT boosters, plenty more. Berberine for AMPK etc. I think you have tried berberine, I remember though.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Fully explained in the video. Also, it's Dr. Lustgarten.

[@musaire]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 Thanks! I watched the video some days ago. Need to re-watch in full length.

[@Dedjkeorrn42]

Mushrooms taste so good though! Hoping that this next test supports the argument that it's just a protein thing.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

I agree, but if the net of the biomarker data is better with a lower mushroom intake, then it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make...

[@rolfpoelman3486]

Any natural food is raw. Mushrooms are not good raw. Our natural diet is raw sweet tropical fruit.

[@albeb87]

Curious on which biomarkers messed up the high dose b12. I’m struggling to work on my high MCV and low RBC and platelets so I’m trying supplementing with 1000 b1 daily…

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

B12 is significantly correlated with higher RBCs and lower homocysteine (right direction), but higher hsCRP platelets, LDL, BUN, and ALP (wrong direction), for a net -3 correlative score.

[@cylon5741]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 Would hunter-gatherer humans have had intermittent--as opposed to daily--dietary "injections" of B12? Would intermittent/pulsatile supplementation be something to consider? I am not familiar with the form of B12 you use. Is it injected or taken sublingually? I am assuming it is not cyanocobalamin. Could gut flora be coaxed into making more B12 without the degree of negative consequences you have experienced with supplementation?

[@wwxxab]

I've also had a high MCV reading for the first time recently, and have started taking liposomal B12, and will find out later if it goes back into the normal range. Liposomal spray from NOW, 1000mcg, very cheap.

[@ahmedibrahim5822]

I searched for information on mushrooms and homocysteine, and some studies suggest the opposite: mushroom intake may actually reduce homocysteine levels. Mushrooms contain more than just niacinamide, so other constituents might be responsible for lowering homocysteine.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Definitely, but regardless of what studies in other people show, the key is testing ourselves, to try to discover the truth...

[@ahmedibrahim5822]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 That's why I appreciate your channel. You don't offer generic health advice that might not work for everyone; instead, you present your own results and explain them for a clearer understanding of our metabolism. Thank you!

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks@@ahmedibrahim5822!

[@nas4apps]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 Maybe the terminology 'mushroom' should be retracted from the title. Better story/title is one focused on self-testing (of homocysteine). Interesting though, never had a clue of any importance of this. In general, whole foods feel best, thus mushrooms would seem quite healthy (organic ones at least). Small amounts with broad mix of different mushroom types.

[@btudrus]

Yes, if you replace sugar with mushrooms, it will reduce homocysteine 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@tadariusme]

I do periods of liquids only, please incorporate and talk all sciiencey about the super natural off the meter power within the vessel

[@THeSID432hz]

Only one way to settle this, all-mushroom diet!

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Ha, that's not a bad idea if I'm trying to prove that they increase homocysteine (at least in my case)...

[@invertage]

Far as I know, there is a difference in cooked vs raw with bioavailabity due to the chitin factor. That could make a difference in test levels. I love mushrooms 🍄

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Most of it is cooked, but I also eat them raw, which has been a constant throughout this process...

[@larryc1616]

❤Magic 🍄 🍄

[@tnvol5331]

Are the benefits of mushrooms (anti cancer) a good trade off?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

I'm not eliminating mushrooms, but what dose is optimal? That's what I'm after in the video...

[@tnvol5331]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 Do you have any estimates so far? What about powdered mushroom supplementation? Is powered mushroom supplementation as good as steamed mushrooms?

[@jamesgilmore8192]

Mike have you attempted to model Hcy with B12, protein and mushroom as variables?

[@arihaviv8510]

King oyster mushroom may have the same amount of nicotinamide as white button with much more ergothioneine..so you might be able to eat less nico for the same amount of ergo

[@bhut1571]

Ahh, wonderful; science applied to nutrition; not an easy task. This is always an interesting read. Cheers and bonne chance from an old physics type. I hope that some of your great noodle is dedicated to Climate Change.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks @bhut1571, but I don't have an interest in studying climate change-the name of the channel is, "Conquer Aging or Die Trying"!

[@jackbuaer3828]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 Like Aging, Climate Change will not be conquered. All that try, will die trying. Of course, "Reduce The Impact Aging And Perhaps Die A Couple Of Years Later" is not really a catchy title.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

@@jackbuaer3828 Eventually, we won't die-the question then is, will it be within the next 70y or 7000?

[@jackbuaer3828]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 The human body is likely designed to die, likely created that way to prevent the ravages of overpopulation. My theory is that you're checkmated into death. There are many pathways to death. When you try to fix one pathway you perhaps often break 3 others (e.g., The homocysteine example with B!2 causing a breakage in 3 other biomakers. Sure, Mushrooms or Protein may mitigate without breakage, but that solution, like any other, is only temporary.). Unless, one can figure out ways to colonize new planets (not likely in the next 100 years without Alien technology) even a modest extension of life eventually would lead to scarcer resources, more pollution, more wars, and more death. We are currently on that trend with today's life expectancy. Imagine we added an extra 20 years to each person's lifespan, that would wreak havoc on the planet. If we were able to download the human brain into digital form (e.g. running on a computer), then perhaps your brain would live as long the machine. In that case, we did not conquer aging, we simply morphed into a machine and you would not get to eat your cheescake. You would perhaps yearn to be human again.

[@Sobchak2]

Maybe you mentioned this already, but what type of mushrooms do you normally eat? I would be very nervous to eat portobello mushrooms or button mushrooms (Agaricus bisporus) every day, because of their agaritine content.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

White button. I wasn't eating them every day, but ~700g 3x/week, for a 250g/day average.

[@AtlanteanAngel]

Mushrooms are rich in the longevity nutrient ergothioneine

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Yes, spermidine, too, both reasons why I purposely aimed for a high intake, ~250g/d

[@quand_meme]

​@@conqueragingordietrying123They are also full of anti-cancer ingredients, stimulate brain growth factors, and have a good effect on collagen synthesis.

[@rolfpoelman3486]

And which is destroyed when cooked. Cooked foods cause auto immune diseases ie MS etc. The cooked food industry is the biggest industry. Great for the most powerful profit before people industry ie medical industry.

[@shimondoodkin]

high homocysteine might be a beneficial sign because it means body repairs itself. homocysteine is like the white paper of stickers; it is connected to proteins while they on their way to repair the body. after these proteins are used the remaining part is free in the system. and need to be recycled, for recycling to work need nad+ and cofactors. i don't mean high homocysteine is good, it is bad because it makes cell walls of cells permeable and stretchy and thickens blood at cold weather and this causes tears on blood vessels this is spider vines after pregnancy and Varicose veins legs with vines problems after exposure to cold. anyways the other way around, of making homocysteine low first is also interesting

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Homocysteine is neurotoxic-that it's beneficial is unlikely pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16697371/

[@shimondoodkin]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 I meant methionine might be beneficial. maybe low dose methionine is enough?

[@shimondoodkin]

I meant methionine maybe beneficial, the like homocysteine is a signal that says body used up methionine. so there would be a bump of homocysteine and methionine use until body repairs itself fully. then it will go down, with a bunch of homocystine waste. @@conqueragingordietrying123

[@ok373737]

Good isolation of mushrooms and protein intake for testing purposes. Mark my word, though, both will reduce your Homocysteine.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Ok, we'll see!

[@jamesgilmore8192]

How much nicotinamide do white button or mushrooms in general contain? Do you have a reference for any info?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Yes, great question-the difference in niacin intake for 250 vs 95g/d is 7mg less nicotinamide Is that relatively small amount able to increase homocysteine from 9 to 11 uM? We'll have more data in a couple of weeks following the next test...

[@markemdee7311]

I'm 62 year old male with a homocysteine of 7.9. I take creatine and some TMG. I focus on my iron levels and A1C. And I take about 50 different supplements. And consume about 95 grams protein each day, and weigh 150 pounds.

[@rolfpoelman3486]

And stop eating animal products, especially meat. High protein is high cancer etc. Read the freely available PROTEIN PROPAGANDA by Michael Dye.

[@eliaspfeffer]

🫡 respect!

[@rolfpoelman3486]

Too much protein like that will give you cancer etc. Read the freely available article called PROTEIN PROPAGANDA by Michael Dye.

[@brianwnc8168]

I've been working with anti-aging for years and I have found that nothing performs like daily cardio exercise for 1 hour straight maintaining zone 3 cardio for half of that time and maintaining zone for cardio for the other half. Exercise cannot be underrated based on the research. I've seen nothing improve my biomarkers, brain health, and skin health like this daily regiment of 1 hour a day of moderate to intense cardio exercise. All my aging biomarkers as a 50 year old normalized to someone in their twenties when I have this level of cardio practice every day.

[@graphitetalk]

I agree completely. I started on a cardio, weights, regimen at age 60. Was sedentary earlier. Nothing improved my health and biomarkers like exercise did. No medicines anymore. Just decent diet, and exercise.

[@rolfpoelman3486]

*regiment *REGIMEN*

[@rolfpoelman3486]

Do rebounding. Do high heart rate until muscular failure 1 hr a week. Sprinting only instead of running long distance. Spirited walking and climbing a lot. Stop eating the junk.

[@robert111k]

Wich were the markers affected negatively by your B-12 intake? Was it just cyanocobalamin or a methylated version of it what you took?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Hi @robert111k, note that they're correlations, so I can't say if these are direct effects or not (i.e. causation) B12 is significantly correlated with higher RBCs and lower homocysteine (right direction), but higher hsCRP platelets, LDL, BUN, and ALP (wrong direction), for a net -3 correlative score. methyl-cobalamin

[@robert111k]

@@conqueragingordietrying123, thank you!

[@altmuligmannen3086]

I'm curious if you've ever tried low dose methylene blue to see if that does anything to any of the biomarkers? I take 0.1 mg per kg body weight on a daily basis, but unfortunately I don't have the opportunity to track my biomarkers...

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

I haven't tried methylene blue. Also, I always have a hypothesis before trying something-for example, which of my biomarkers would you expect methylene blue to improve?

[@Droidzi]

I eat mushrooms (almost) every day - since childhood (Italian heritage) Tested homocysteine for the first time in 2024. I'm bang in the middle of the desirable range - plus I was 'awkwardly self-treating' MTHFR compound heterozygous at the time of testing

[@rolfpoelman3486]

There is no middle of the desirable range with homocysteine. Get it as low as possible, that is the desirable range.

[@SpaghettiToaster]

How does it make sense to look at the correlation of some poor health outcome with any age-correlated variable (homocysteine) and assume that it's the homocysteine killing you and not the age?

[@SpaghettiToaster]

Isn't this the same as saying that you need to get rid of wrinkles to reduce all cause mortality?

[@carter5945]

@@SpaghettiToaster My guess is the ACM study controls for age.

[@arihaviv8510]

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16697371/

[@markaguilera493]

Should Mushrooms be cooked or raw?

[@digdeeep]

I heard that Parmesan cheese has no health benefit but Parmigiana Reggiano does. Have you heard that as well? One being a processed, pasteurized cheese product and the other being a raw, whole cheese.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Hmm, I use the whole block (unprocessed cheese, not the stuff sold in containers), grind it into a powder, then store it in the freezer to minimize decay/mold formation.

[@digdeeep]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 sounds good. Is it labeled Parmigiana Reggiano? One of the differences between that and others would be the nonGMO grass fed A2 dairy used. Parmigiana Reggiano is a raw cheese and not heat pasteurized. It’s a fermented food that hasn’t been damaged by heat.

[@digdeeep]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 also, Parma pork is fed Parmigiana Reggiano whey to make prosciutto ham.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

@@digdeeep I'm not sure-next time I buy a block, I'll check

[@alan2102X]

For the record, all aged cheeses are SUPER-acid-ash, the worst foods in this respect. Balance with mega-veg intake and/or supplementary potassium bicarb (or any bicarb, but K is best).

[@aquamarine99911]

Optimal protein consumption is dependent on body weight (or lean body mass, or targeted lean body mass) - i.e. x grams of protein per kilogram of body weight per day. Do we know your weight, Michael?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

I'm close to 1.6g/kg/BW, which has been reported as optimal for maximizing muscle mass and function as a result of regular exercise 141 lbs, 5'7

[@welchphilip]

What type of mushrooms? Shiitake have been shown to lower homocysteine levels.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

White button, and the key is testing ourselves-what works in published studies of other people doesn't necessarily mean it will work on us The only way to know is to do the experiment...

[@OneDougUnderPar]

I'm not fond of button mushrooms, but love shiitake. When I read about culinary mushrooms, they always seem to come out on top too. I know he's more salesman than scientist, but I still wonder about Paul Stamets' comment on button/portobello mushrooms that if he said what he knows it would put his life in danger ...

[@elijaht5188]

Are you doing this all alone? Do you plan to expand and have a group of people that contribute data as well

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Yep, all by myself, but I'm now working with a small team to bring the correlation-based approach to an app...

[@cgprelude]

What do you ingest to obtain your mushroom intake?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

White button. I should've mentioned that in the video, apologies!

[@carter5945]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 Aren't shiitake higher in ergothionine than white button while having the same niacin? wonder if you swapped in shiitake if you'd get the benefits of higher ergothionine without the higher niacin

[@brianwnc8168]

I'm curious about how consistently this guy holds his exercise patterns through his years of research. The types and level of daily exercise have huge impacts and could be skewing data if his physical practice of exercise is not held precisely the same throughout all of his research

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Exercise is a constant in the approach, not a likely factor in my case for homocysteine.

[@arihaviv8510]

​@@conqueragingordietrying123 So there is no progressive overload in your routine? Same amount of sets reps and weight in every workout?

[@barrie888]

yes ,maybe 100 % of your viewers were definately thinking , why doesnt he take betaine supp ?exactly when you said that in the video , i was for sure

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

The TMG-homocysteine blog post (pre-YT!) is in the video's description, too...

[@LeoShoSilva]

Very interesting Mike .Looks like portion control raises its ugly head again 😂

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks Leo, and yep!

[@davidford8539]

Did you find correlations of your methionine intake with homocysteine? I would try lowering methionine.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

I calculated correlations for methionine a while ago, but stopped because total protein was also significantly correlated with homocysteine Lowering protein below 95-100g/d is tricky, as it could limit a positive impact on muscle mass and function as a result of regular exercise.

[@davidford8539]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 I wouldn’t lower protein, but try reducing the methionine contribution….maybe change the sources of protein a bit……pea protein….

[@alan2102X]

@@davidford8539 Legumes in general for lower methionine -- probable life extension efficacy. Enhance further with supplementary glycine, which antagonizes methionine (compensates for some of its adversity). And take note of all the glycine/NAC literature published the last few years.

[@pierrejeanes]

I don't know the type of mushrooms you are eating but according to chatgpt the mushrooms that contain the most of niacinamide is oyster mushrooms with around 7.6 milligrams other types of mushrooms contain much less (shiitake 3.9) so I don't know if the around 20 milligrams of niacinamide you were taking would make your homocysteine sky rock🤔🤔

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Homocysteine hasn't skyrocketed, but a reduction from 11 - 9uM with less mushrooms is significant. It may be an effect specific to me, i.e. even small nicotinamide doses above the RDA -->higher homocysteine.

[@pierrejeanes]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 but as I said there is very little NICOTINAMIDE in mushrooms (less than the upper safe limit contained in 250 grams of mushroom )and they don't normally accumulate, so if it is the mushrooms then it might be another substance

[@pierrejeanes]

So there's no conclusion???

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

The conclusion (for now) is that too many mushrooms/d (250 vs 95g) might've increased homocysteine to age-expectd values. Whether that's true, we'll need more data, and that's coming (as a start) within the next 2 weeks). If this ends up being true, it's on the road to precision nutrition, i.e. how much of each food, especially potentially "longevity-promoting" foods (mushrooms via ergothioneine, spermidine) is optimal?

[@nuovoaccount998]

hi michael, did you get the covid vaccine?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

yep

[@THeSID432hz]

microbiome health controls all these things, i wouldnt poo on mushrooms tho, they seem to be amazing all around

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

I'm not pooing on mushrooms, they're a staple in the diet, especially because of ergothioneine and spermidine, but the question is, what dose is optimal? Based on my current biomarker data, 95g/d is better than 250.

[@THeSID432hz]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 ah i see ok yea i think thats a good point, because it could be crowding out other things that are importnt to eat too

[@bridgepoc]

I hope this doesn’t apply to all mushrooms

[@SanctuaryGardenLiving]

What kind of mushrooms?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

In my case, white button

[@SeminarioMAE]

additionally i find mushroom consumption makes my tsh rise

[@ronaldreeves421]

Wow 😊

[@whatthefunction9140]

Wounder what methylene blue would do. I take 5 drops twice daily.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

What's the effect on your biomarkers?

[@whatthefunction9140]

@conqueragingordietrying1797 I don't have good tracking but it gives me a lot of energy and lessens my allergies

[@mikesymth7243]

The fallacy of your experiments is that at age 80+ homocysteine was 11-12.. When one gets to 80+ with a 11-12 measure one has already extended past the average so why work on getting it lower.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Homocysteine increases during aging, and as shown in the video, mine has similarly succumbed to that. Most of my recent tests are in the 10-11uM range, which is worse than age-expected. That's why I'm interested in lowering it as much as possible, getting it back to youthful levels.

[@shimondoodkin]

at 11:00, share this with Bryan Johnson he eats mushrooms every day

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

The question is the dose, but it may be an effect that is specific to me. What's his homocysteine?

[@jamesgilmore8192]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 Its 5.9. Low yes, but his methods (B12, folate, creatine etc) probably don't transfer blindly because of his methionine restriction. And he never did say what reduced it, even though I'm sure his team has a fair idea.

[@brianwnc8168]

It's all about balance brother. You're eating way too many mushrooms. The research shows to get enough ergothionene, beta glucans, and spermidine that you don't have to consume them everyday. Ergothionine remains in the body for 30 days so you definitely don't need to eat mushrooms everyday to maintain healthy levels. I notice I feel great when I eat mushrooms regularly but not when I eat large quantities of mushrooms daily for an extended period of time

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

You're talking about generalities, while I'm talking about specifics. A major focus of the channel is regular biomarker testing, to try to determine diet, supplement, and exercise prescriptions. This video, and many others on the channel, are progress towards that goal.

[@brianwnc8168]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 I do appreciate your channel and want to thank you for your good work. I apologize if I didn't express my appreciation for your scientific process and details

[@marcelotemer]

Did you remove meat from the diet? Meat imports Methionine. You are trying to convert homocysteine into methionine, but if the body already has the methionine from food, it will compensate and you will have homocysteine not converting to methionine.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Nope, I increased animal protein intake for this test.

[@marcelotemer]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 maybe that’s why homocysteine wasn’t converting to methionine? (methionine was pilling up.)

[@cacogenicist]

"Mushrooms" is a pretty broad thing. There are _many_ species of edible basidiomycetes. And some ascomycetes, like _Morchella_ species, are widely eaten. One might want to restrict analysis to cultivated _Agaricus bisporus,_ if that's all one is eating.

[@rolfpoelman3486]

sMMA or uMMA test too.

[@plants_and_wellness1574]

I’m 40 and my recent homocysteine level was 10.3 😞

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

It can be improved, as shown in the video!

[@plants_and_wellness1574]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 it’s infuriating for me because I am HEALTH OBSESSED and have been since I was 30. I don’t know anyone who eats as clean as I do and takes care of myself like I do but my husband has a much lower homocysteine and he doesn’t take care of himself and my niece who is 240 pounds also has a lower homocysteine, it’s just frustrating. I’ve also listened to copious scientist and many have mentioned they had higher homocysteine, it’s interesting that the people who take the best care of themselves have higher homocysteine and those who don’t have lower 😑

[@musaire]

🤯🤯

[@philipambler3825]

Take 5mg Methylcobalamin daily and 2gm fish oil daily...& lower homocysteine, and experience much better circulation.

[@rolfpoelman3486]

No. Take chia seed ground freshly with spotty ripe banana. Do not take any oil. Do not take any animal product. Stop eating cooked food. Eat only raw sweet fruit, and ask me for the other habits.