Considering Lithium Batteries In Your Van Watch This First

[@adus123]

Fuses are important for any battery system, regardless of age or type. Here's why: Wiring is the weak point: Even older batteries can deliver enough current to overheat wiring if there's a short circuit or overload. The fuse protects the wiring, not the battery itself. It's crucial to have fuses on all cables connected to your lithium-ion battery. These fuses primarily protect the wiring, not the appliances themselves. If a fault occurs and the cable starts to overheat, the fuse will blow, preventing a potential fire. While lithium-ion batteries have built-in safety mechanisms (a Battery Management System or BMS), it's unwise to rely solely on these. A BMS can fail, and fuses provide an additional layer of protection. Remember to choose a fuse with an appropriate rating for the cable it's protecting. This ensures the fuse will blow before the cable overheats.

[@UrbanVanlife]

Thank you for pointing this out . A BMS IS NOT FOOLPROOF and they do fail . The whole thing about this video is added saftey and a lot don’t get it cos they think the bms Is 100% safe

[@UrbanVanlife]

Iv also pinned this comment

[@adus123]

@ Not all battery management systems are made equal I've just got the eco warrior 12v 280ah battery But the shutdown amperage is about 800 amps which is insane I would imagine it were overheat and shut down anyway before it reached 800 amps But I'm not willing to put that to the test. lol

[@SpyderLEE]

@@UrbanVanlife yes mate I agree. Safer is better. I think some people took it as fogstar are selling something that is dangerous. This is incorrect, It is not and these batteries are safe to drop in. Adding the t fuse makes it safer. This is not a bad thing.

[@Albert_206]

Ashamed to say I was such an A##hole making unnecessary childish remarks. I was wrong and apologise. You are good people, giving a huge gift to other vanlifers. I ordered a class T holder and Fuse, I have only 300 ah but that is enough, it is my first build. Waited three years saving up and now finally I change from dreaming to doing. Thank you very much for this critical information, best regards!

[@UrbanVanlife]

Oh my friend I’m also guilty of doing it as well so not a problem at all . We don’t take much to heart here budddy . But appreciate your comment and good luck with the build hope to see you on the road sir

[@TheTenof12]

[@stephenlabarre7890]

I've watched so many videos over the years regarding van electricity, and most videos are similar and sometimes inaccurate. This video was refreshing and depressing at the same time; refreshing that I still can learn something valuable and depressing that it took so many hours of viewing other videos to find it. What's the lesson here? No matter how repetitive, keep watching these videos because everybody knows a little something worthwhile that may not have been expressed before. Cables, switches, fuses, etc... may seem mundane when compared to charge controllers, inverters, and batteries, but their selection makes for a healthy, happy system when done with purpose. Who'da thunk.

[@wrayxphoto]

You guys are so right that you can not skimp especially on safety. Thanks for sharing awesome vid...Ray

[@andrewrankine5412]

I think it's great that you are trying to inform people of safer ways to protect yourself and your installation, but the HRC fuse you fitted will not stop thermal runaway if the battery has a fault and catches fire. LIFEP04 lithiun are the safest of the lithium batteries as they are less suseptable to thermal runaway if you have a fault . I am in Australia and use a brand called Enerdrive which has an internal BMS and built in short circuit protection etc ect. We also have electrical standards about battery location and where they are installed in a habitable location. P.S I am an Electrician and work with DC power supplies and very large battery Banks.

[@themartinandersson]

The "built in short circuit protection" works how? Sounds like a battery with this protection is 100% safe or no?

[@olafschermann1592]

Thanks for mentioning T-fuses. As of respect to the high amperage my safety aproach is 3 way: 1) BMS - which should detect overcurrent. But if Mosfets burn thru 2) high amp DC-Breaker switch which should break by magnetic overcurrent detection, and if this fails 3) Class-T fuse or similar that consists of 20kAmps breaking capabilities for last row of defence.

[@chiefgilray]

I truly didn't know this but have the other fuse options you showed. Think I'll upgrade before my install is complete. Massively appreciate it. If I ever see you guys out and about, I owe you an irn bru

[@CanarianCamperBuild]

A mbrf terminal fuse at the right voltage rating does the job much cheaper!

[@spritelyfrog]

I'm glad this video prompted me to do some research, but it does need to be said that a Class T fuse isn't going to be the right solution for every install. I have a 300Ah 12v system and a MBRF terminal fuse (£11) plus a fuse holder (£24) is more than adequate. The fuse needs to be rated to lower amps than the cable from my battery is. Cheaper MBRFs are available, those prices are what I've found for Blue Sea Systems which are not the cheapest, but they're a well respected high end brand. At that sort of price I can even afford to carry a spare fuse! You may well want a Class T for your inverter and you're requirements might not match mine depending on a number of factors... The key takeaway is that it's really worth getting some advice that's relevant to your install and not to be put off by the 'high' price of Class T. £35 to protect my system really is extremely affordable.

[@Mark-z1x1]

I think we have to stop using word lithium and use the lithium chemistry names instead e.g., li-on, lifepo4, etc. because the differences are massive

[@UrbanVanlife]

may be just take the advice in this video and know ur safe reguardless of what ou want to call things

[@Marks-Garage]

​@@UrbanVanlifeI think what he's saying is that the clips in the early part of the video show a different type of chemistry to what your fogstar uses. Lifepo4 is very stable. You are right about the fuse situation though. I have mega fuses, proper DC breakers and then the BMS cut off rated to my application. I doubt at 12v there would be sufficient energy to arc across a mega fuse but 48v would be abit more of a worry.

[@Markus-UK]

@@Marks-Garage It doesn't matter what the voltage is...

[@michaelfitzpatrick3641]

​@@Marks-GarageAn arc welder will work quite well with 12v. Using the specified very low internal resistance for the cells used in these batteries, a simple calculation shows that several thousand amps could flow into a short circuit.

[@yan0132]

@@UrbanVanlife😂 well no. Calling 2 different things the same thing isn’t how it works is it. I wouldn’t take your advice unless I wanted to die

[@Marvin_PA]

Dramatic ? Yes, overly? No. You’re absolutely correct in what you have done to raise a very important issue. You may only get one chance to buy right !

[@StephenAlmond-v6d]

Wow didn't know that how many vans are running about as a fire Risk thanks for sharing and helping others

[@nigew]

Having been in close proximity to large industrial fuses when they go bang, I would not be mounting the fuse so close to the battery as to possibly cause damage to the battery when it goes bang. At least put it in a thermal battery box or put some asbestos sheet between the fuse and the plastic wall of the battery housing. 💥 👍

[@UrbanVanlife]

We ok with this one mate there in no risk of a bang with these fuses

[@173customdetailing9]

One of the best recommendations you have done, at best all batteries should be fused, Regards

[@UrbanVanlife]

Thank you sir

[@montgomeryrichard]

All UK mains plug tops Fuses 3-13 amp (BS1362) Are of this type with sand inside to quench the arc from inductive loads so current will not flow via the arc after it blows!

[@anthonyellis1409]

Loving your vids and your journey s. Plus your little dogs. Just be safe out there. Keep it Real, to all van people and everyone living on the road or streets. Be safe stay safe.

[@UrbanVanlife]

Thank you! Will do hope you are well!!!

[@kristinemoman5264]

I believe ALOT of people,including myself had No idea!!!Thanks for the wonderfully informative video!!

[@UrbanVanlife]

We didn’t know about it . But I’m glad we do

[@mickjourneaux1798]

Great information Neil 👍I don't have lithium but its well worth knowing👍

[@HadzhiDimitrovo]

The problem is to ensure it’s all safe the necessary calculations must be applied. It is possible that the delay in the fuse allows your cable to melt, switch to melt and a fire.

[@KevSmith-v4u]

More than happy to rely on my built in BMS after consultation with the professional Battery and vehicle electrical company that retro fitted it for me.

[@UrbanVanlife]

Not that professional if there not fitting a t class fuse or a mrbf fuse to your System mate . Also the BMS is a computer . Question Do you own a computer Has it ever crashed or failed ?? That’s what I’d ask Cos if it dose that’s all your van wireing going up in flames . Also I’m guessing if them cables are in your van then that’s gone as well

[@KevSmith-v4u]

@@UrbanVanlife As I said I'm happy to rely on my BMS

[@themartinandersson]

@KevSmith-v4u Can you please argue your case with factual statements? So far all you have contributed with is a baseless opinion, which is wasting people's time.

[@homelabjohn]

Nice video and should make some DIY installers think about installing a fuse perhaps. I think there are two issues with why people do not install fuses. 1) They do not understand how to work out what size fuse they need. 2) They think they do not need one because another part of the system already has a fuse and they can save money / don't need it (battery isolators, inverters, batteries bms and busbars have limits / fuses). My view is I would prefer to replace a fuse than replace an inverter or a battery as they are cheaper. My own rule is go with the highest thickness cable you can and the fuse installed should be lower than everything else in the system to protect them. I always use 2awg or 35mm cables for my battery and inverter setup which can handle 210 amps. Always remember 12v systems pull more amps the higher the watts you pull compared to a 24v system. When I build out systems if your total watts is going to exceed 1000 watts then its time to look at a 24v system to be safe.

[@themartinandersson]

Correct me if I am wrong but higher volts = greater risk to humans. And that's why high-voltage systems require certified people to work on them, and why generally speaking something "small" like 12v systems are considered much more safe and popular in DIY communities. In fact, I would like to go with a 1v system as long as I could afford them thick copper cables lol. I am just baffled a little bit why you say "[rather than 12v] look at a 24v system to be safe". Like no no no, properly and adequately size the fuses and cables to whatever amps you have running, but all other things equal, LOWER voltage is better "to be safe". Or am I wrong?

[@UrbanVanlife]

@themartinandersson not wrong but the amps and the power in this battery could kill you

[@greencheeksconure]

There is so much wrong information in this video it's not funny, I glad you have a fuse now. The BMS provides the main protection for the battery it self. Your type of battery is NOT a ticking time bomb. Do some more research before you yap about stuff you've got No idea about.

[@UrbanVanlife]

BMS is a computer , and not fool proof unlike this comment , all batteries need to have a fuse and not rely on a bms , hence why cars have a pyro fuse as well as a main fuse , if the bms fails so will all your cables and then your van , now please tell me im wrong , waiting for reply

[@johnwalker5366]

You dont need High Voltage Rated fuses on Low voltage 12v circuits as arching the gap cannot occur at this voltage , standard 200A fuses as used with 12v lead acid batteries are sufficent . Its there to prevent cable and wiring current faults not the battery. ( + Circuit breakers ) The BMS , inside well designed ! lithium batteries has short circuit and thermal runaway prevention built in

[@CanarianCamperBuild]

I agree on this, but also mounted on the positive terminal a mbrf fuse. It cost not much and can help you if the others fail. Take a mbrf fuse for the correct voltage, I use 24 volt on my system, so my fuses are for max 48 volt.

[@johnwalker5366]

@CanarianCamperBuild By all means , its just that lithium batteries get a bad press , due mostly to electric bikes and scooters fires ,(mostly chinease) these do not have the level of BMS safety features ,and use rudamentry chargers. The fuse /circuit breakers are there to prevent overheating of the wiring causing a fire situation no matter what the power source ...

[@Gary-r9e]

Great tip. Have you had to remove all the other fuses?. I think all the companies that sell the lithium batteries should've said something about the fuses when you bought the battery... But still a good shout on you're part. Let's hope other vanlifers have done the same as your good selves😊

[@UrbanVanlife]

No we where just advised to have it before the feed goes in to the vans main system

[@Gary-r9e]

@UrbanVanlife Thanks for the update.... top peeps

[@tragicvision775]

Can you post links to the reseach you done?

[@themartinandersson]

I don't think he did any lol. The whole narrative that "regular" fuses are confined to an operating interval, which is totally unspecified (?), and then there's these other special "higher grade" fuses that somehow doesn't have the same limitation (i.e. follows the same physical laws), smells like a scam to me. If it really is true that fuses only work as expected from X amps to Y amps then this interval should be well specified, and my logical processor tells me that should be equally true for all fuses. Maybe the KZbinr will take these things more seriously in the future when he posts videos and instead of asking us to just "believe him", present some real facts and rationale. Oh the irony that he began this video bashing down on an unsubstantiated comment and then he does the very same thing except in the form of a video lol.

[@urmintrude1969]

You have made a very good and interesting point Granted a class t fuse is far superior to a mega fuse and as you correctly stated you can get ark flash within the fuse this is why a mega fuse is rated to a maximum of 48 volts If you have a 12 v system there isn’t enough voltage potential to cause ark flash so on the lower voltage systems a mega is fine personally anything over 24 v system I use type t Thankyou again for an very informative video

[@themartinandersson]

One can not be superior to another if they have different areas of application. An apple is not in an absolute sense superior to a peanut. One may feed a human and one may feed a mouse. Or maybe you load up your petrol car with rocket fuel because rocket fuel is "superior"?

[@rvrebel2209]

A extremely worth whole video giving out very great worth while information Thank you.

[@philipjones2833]

I have watched this vlog now twice and I get what your saying Neil and glad your on top of it now but surly fogstar should of known this and should of put you right on this matter. If not that's pretty bad as a company as your now living full time what if it did go up while asleep in your van you could be no more my mate. Not digging at the company at all or you guys what so ever but surely they would know this yea ?? All the best and glad your on it now mate love the vlogs and you guys

[@UrbanVanlife]

This isn’t a fault of fogstar at all, and they do recommend the correct fuses to customers, our issue was we already had lithium in the van prior to getting the fogstar so we didn’t ask if we needed anything else as we had had it put in by someone else and assumed our system was correct going off what we had previously been advised, so it’s a user error on our part in that sense.

[@theonlywoody2shoes]

MRBFs (the alternative that you showed), are cheaper and fine for 12v & 24v systems using Lithium chemistry batteries. Once you get to 48v and above I fully agree with using a Class T fuse and holder. Both are rated for marine use, so their use in a van is fine - subject to the voltage limits noted above. Spares for both are available at most chandlers (marine things shop), but carrying a spare fuse is always a good idea. Hopefully you have something better than just gaffer/duct tape covering the positive battery terminal 8:55, since anything metal shorting this out is before the fuse. I’d also cover the red cable with some corrugated cable sheathing to prevent physical damage - a few quid on Fleabay delivered, and you can get a split version so you don’t have to remove anything to fit it.

[@alanhat5252]

I'm not convinced about sheathing as it will thermally insulate the cable, possibly leading to a different set of problems.

[@theonlywoody2shoes]

@alanhat5252 If that's a problem, you already need a larger gauge of wire - especially low voltage DC. Mechanical damage leading to a short will be a LOT hotter!

[@Rob.1340]

Thank you for sharing this. I will definitely be adding this to my system. Thanks again, safe travels. All the best. 👍🚐🐾🐾😎

[@gordon0918]

Every so often I come across a real gem of a KZbin post. This one stopped me in my tracks and really made me think. I have LiFePO4 batteries with what I hope are good BMS units designed to prevent this type of rapid extreme discharge. But hope isn’t enough. I ordered the T Class fuses, it made no sense to me not to add this protection. Thanks for your post, I wish you both well.

[@UrbanVanlife]

Well when we found out it worried us as we didn’t realise, and when we spoke to many other people they also didn’t know, hence the video.

[@SpyderLEE]

I thought the fogstar had a built in bms? The bms will disconnect in an unsafe condition. That’s what they are for. I’m all victron and use the Victron smart bms

[@adamshaw1032]

Exactly what I thought that’s why I haven’t fitted a fuse

[@alanhat5252]

A BMS is computerized wizardry, why do you trust this computer when you've seen so many other computers crash with un-desired results? Put in a simple reliable fuse! If you don't want to spend out on blown fuses go for a fuse slightly bigger than your BMS is rated for so the fuse _only_ blows when the BMS fails to trip.

[@SpyderLEE]

@ I also have a main fuse. Modern batteries like the fogstar ones and Victron smart lithium etc are a different technology to the batteries everybody panics about. They are lithium iron phosphate. Lifepo4 batteries do not explode and burn like people think. These batteries are much safer.

[@alanhat5252]

​@@SpyderLEEsaf-ER, not SAFE.

[@CampervanTravelsInDora]

Fogstar also state it's a drop in replacement for your existing battery, which they are not unless some additional work is completed to ensure they are safe for use!

[@shockingguy]

Darn proper advice from a Sparky here, in our modern worlds, we have breakers in our homes and businesses which can trip and you can reset. They are just really a modern convenience, fuses on the other hand and that depends which hand you’re looking at ha ha, fuses always blow in my 50 years of being an electrician and a large building and facility maintenance engineer. I’ve never not seen a fuse, not fail and do its job at protecting you. And it’s important to learn there are a wide variety in flavor of fuses, it’s just not a simple element that will go poof when you need it sometimes they can hold their pooping for a little bit because that’s a necessary part of the circuit so yeah excellent information proper installation large wiring always with this kind of stuff 👍👏👏👏

[@themartinandersson]

"I've never not seen a fuse, not fail". My head hurts. Can you please rephrase?

[@michaelwilliams3861]

Does anyone know what fuse size I would need for a 280ahc lithium battery?

[@campervancodgers124]

You need to work out what current your system draws, (wattage)then divide by the volts ie your battery 12v, then go a bit higher, I had a friend work mine out but believe 12 volt planet would help if you buy from them x

[@michaelwilliams3861]

@ I have the correct size normal fuse on my system, but I’m hearing that you kneed some kind of huge fuse, which would not protect the cables, just stop the welding of the fuse holder, I’m conFUSED, to pardon the pun 😁

[@michaelwilliams3861]

@@campervancodgers124 looking at the battery specifications, it quotes all the protection needed for theses issues

[@campervancodgers124]

@@michaelwilliams3861 I didn't use the massive same fuse a Neil ours was a Mrbf, basically as I have much less stuff but, it made sense to me as from the battery to the fuse there was no protection if the fuse failed. I just went with my guy no harm In a extra safety which is why I'm attending a workshop in Hull on van electric safety on Saturday if your interested let me know and I'll give you the details I do know there is still places.

[@backontwowheels9469]

What I find mildly confusing is that either people are ignoring the safety advice given by the companies that sell the batteries and associated hardware or the companies are also not aware. As an electrician I have always panicked a little, sometimes prompting comment, at certain installs, where smaller sized cables are used, possibly because some may assume that if something is 12V you only need small sized cables. Whereas in reality you would need a bigger sized cables for a lower voltage serving equipment of a particular load (wattage), because the load remains the same if it was run from 240v or 12v, therefore if the voltage drops then the ampage increases. Cables have a definitive current carrying capacity irrespective of voltage and you could end up overloading your cables, which in turn heat up and worse case scenario catch fire. I was also concerned about safety in vans because they are not fixed like a building, so looking at what the marine industry has in place is such a no brainer, as they say a little knowledge can be dangerous so always get advice from a specialist or do a course of some description. When ever I get to the point of building a van I will definitely get advise on protection and safety of electrical systems and oversize all my cables too. Well done for putting this out there and well done for the person who gave you the advise, maybe the first comment could have been a bit more useful had it come with some information, If it is not constructive, criticism should be limited.

[@viv-i-vangoesforth]

nobody from Fogstar mentioned the thing Neil has. Basically they want to sell you the batteries but they just cant be bothered giving you sound safety advice to fit it. Theres a whole spec sheet on Fogstar's site that accompanies each battery and literally NOWHERE on those spec sheet has anything covered by Neil's video. I find that very bad. Fogstar and other lithium battery firms need to pull their fingers out and give proper safety advice.

[@bombardierboerboels]

Hi guys got my work van what is the best set up just to run a kettle/ microwave and charge up my power tools many thx 👍🇬🇧

[@Ian-ev5tg]

Bit misleading to show a lipo battery when we’re talking about lifepo4. They are much safer and don’t blow up like that. The BMS in a fogstar is more than enough protection.

[@UrbanVanlife]

Not misleading at all - safety comes first always . And if that was the case ring any of the uk battery suppliers and evey one of them will recommend you fit a t class fuse . Or let me save you a lot of phone calls WE DID AND GOT THE SAME REPLY yes yes yes . Nothing is flawless and adding more safety is never a bad thing

[@alanhat5252]

A BMS is a computer, when was the last time you saw a totally 100% reliable computer? Just fit a fuse & stop taking chances!

[@steve_and_lolas_hikes]

Exactly. More fear mongering.

[@Mark-z1x1]

@@alanhat5252 A while ago, I bought a 100A fuse from a reputable brand, and who would have thought it was a replica? It didn't blow as it was supposed to, thanks to the BMS. Most LiFePO4 batteries nowadays come with a 10-year manufacturer defect warranty. The BMS is not a simple computer; it’s a multifunctional device with both hardware and software protection. In case something fails, there is a second level of protection ready to handle the issue.

[@CanarianCamperBuild]

@@UrbanVanlife A mbrf fuse at the right voltage rating does the job much cheaper!

[@joshuacrossley4990]

I'm ¾ way into my van build. I had no idea about this . Thankyou so much for the info. I will definitely be fitting the the fuse to my battery . Cheers guys brilliant vlog 👍

[@Moosealini]

Kudos Neil for raising this with such honesty, despite having 7 years experience (with formal training) in marine electrics, I followed this guy for placing mega, ANL and class T in my lifepo4 system… ‘EXPLORIST life Mobile Marine & Off-Grid Electrical’. He has a great video called ‘DIFFERENT TYPES OF DC FUSES (for a DIY Camper Electrical system)’. As well as explaining the ratings & reasoning for all to understand, he sheds some light on why class T was not used / heard of much in the last 5 years.

[@UrbanVanlife]

Thanks mate I’ll check him out . So many ppl rely on the bms . At the end of ther day there a computer and can fail

[@MickFarr-oy9lf]

Great video, just ordered the same parts as you, I went down the mega fuse route as I’d never heard of these ! Cheers you could have saved my life and van 😅

[@leewilkinson-j6y]

Hi thanks for the video my battery is 280amp fogstar do you know the size of fuze thanks

[@jamesmackay4652]

Many thanks.

[@LeisureBit]

Thanks for sharing, I got MRBF fuse for mine in addition as all helps make sure if something goes wrong doesn’t it. I remember your video on the circuit breakers, always good of you to share, as you buy things which are rated on paper correctly, in practice if they aren’t made to cope with the job in hand, you get a problem don’t you. Hope you’re both good and didn’t get too many problems from the storm. All the best, David 🙌

[@tonydean1262]

Massive shout out thank you I didn't know about this ordered one just now😊

[@UrbanVanlife]

Mate hands up we didn’t know any thing about it as well . So hence a humble we made a mistake and didn’t know and here’s what we found out video was needed . And new pants after doing the research

[@richardbroom4324]

That's some good info. It's a shame that the battery suppliers aren't pushing this! I know it isn't their problem, but as you've stated, not many are using suitable fuses

[@timstradling7764]

Well highlighted issue ! First came across advice on MRBF fuses on the group I belong to, SBMCC, and subsequently fitted them. I find technical info on responsible and informed sites to be very useful if, as I am, you are inexperienced or technically unsure. Why wouldn’t you spend a few extra quid to protect £000s invested in your van / boat. Thank you, from them who didn’t know😅

[@KevinMcMillan]

Just my 2p worth: Lithium as in LIpo4 batteries are actually very safe compared to alternative lithium batteries. Usually when shorted / abused they will get hot and vent but wont go on fire as such... I believe they do get hot enough to set wood on fire so worth keeping in mind when planning. The larger fuse you are using in this video is no doubt a better fuse to a mega fuse. The arcing should really be an issue as its not high voltage so is not enough to jump across gaps. Not saying the fuse upgrade is not a good thing but I think people watching that might not have the money for the type of fuse and will now worry about it IMO its all bit scaremongering how it was represented. Something not mentioned that really should have been is the BMS in the battery. This is actually what stops your battery from going "boom" . The BMS will go into short and over current protection in no time not to mention potential to sacrifice itself if something really messed up happened. Anyways no hate I like your videos I just thought it was worth noting for other to see yes this is a good upgrade but thats all it is an upgrade... You should always fuse ANY live feed IMO and if it all goes wrong you have the BMS.

[@UrbanVanlife]

But all I’d say is no bms I’d flawless and they can fail . And for the cost it’s added saftey that could save your whole van And we appreciate your comment and thank you . We think it’s allwsys best to fuse your battery and fuse it with the correct fuse as well

[@anthonyellis1409]

Neil But is it as safe as thay say it is and how safe is it,

[@bobscullion3533]

Hi guys, surely the battery manufacturer should provide this information to the buyer regarding safe and proper installation. Did you ask Fogstar regarding these fuses? All the best guys

[@UrbanVanlife]

They do if you ask all the correct questions, however we had lithium in the van prior to getting our fogstar batteries and thought we had the right systems in place so didn’t ask if we needed anything else as we had been running off lithium for a few years. Someone who has bought from fogstar has all answers your question in the comments and they where given the correct advice and information

[@bobscullion3533]

Maybe an idea to advise including some sort of fact/info sheet when supplying a unit. Just a thought

[@SimonWad]

Very interesting...I was just thinking about these the other day, and wondering if I should be getting one...I already have terminal fuses installed...so am not sure if I did to triple up (megafuse, terminal fuse, and T-class)

[@360audiovision6]

Great info. I appreciate it. On a side note, what's the projector behind your head

[@UrbanVanlife]

lol it’s the wimius k9 buddy

[@hughjasse3375]

To be pedantic, I would also add that it is safer to have the shutoff switch on the negative terminal. Electricity actually flows from negative to positive, not from positive to negative as most wiring diagrams show. This continues from a convention when real electrical flow was not understood as well, in the past. The long and short is that there is always a greater potential for an arc to occur when breaking the positive lead to the terminal, compared to the negative terminal, due to the greater energy potential from negative to positive real flow. This is also why you are advised in manuals to disconnect the negative terminal first, when disconnecting or replacing your starter battery, and reconnecting positive first, then negative, when installing a new battery. You can do it either way, but you probably notice the chance of a large spark is greater if you connect negative then positive on your new starter battery. Obviously, the much lower impedance of a lithium battery increases this risk, if there are any weak components in the wiring system. It's a small risk, but that's why the advice is negative-positive to disconnect, positive-negative to connect a battery. The cutoff switch is effectively the same thing, except most people follow the convention of cutoff to positive terminal. It makes earthing isolation easier, but strictly it increases the risk of sparking or arcing.

[@UrbanVanlife]

Right well looks like we are buying a second breaker . Thanks for the advice

[@DodgyFPV]

Consider + to be positive for electron flow -> so you are testing for electrons. Disconnecting the negative first in vehicles is because any exposed metal areas of the vehicle is 'Negative', and it is easier to contact the positive to negative (vehicle chassis for example) with metal tools and causing high discharge and heat, if negative isn't on the battery terminal then the electrons cannot flow through the battery. There is nothing wrong with what you have said these are just foot notes :)

[@sudosu4133]

That is not true. You should put the fuse on the terminal(+ or -) that is Not connected to the chassis. So Positive is almost always the correct pole to installa the fuse.

[@hughjasse3375]

@@sudosu4133 No it's not. Research it, and the reasons why this is the case. It'll come up even on a simple Google search. Don't play with electricity, if you're not sure. -ve off switch is the standard but +ve has become a convention for non-professionals, as it's easier to discount energised nodes from downstream grounding. The only thing you need to be careful of on a self build electrical system is your negative side grounding into a fuse box, junction, or connected devices like B2Bs or Solar controllers, so that you don't leave branches of the system energised. As you normally install separate breakers and fuses around these elements, it should not be an issue, but going around each node with a multimeter after install will confirm you are not energised.

[@lifeonthehighway6917]

@@UrbanVanlife And you need do a video 📹 too so we all can be kept updated 😊 Thank you ❤️

[@leetrowsdale3515]

This has got me thinking about all the portable power stations that have flooded the market over the last couple of years and what their technologies and protection are like. Most now seem to be the LiPo technology but are they fused internally like this?

[@matthewwakeham2206]

Not lipo (lithium polymer), lifepo4 (lithium iron phosphate). Lipo's are used for things like drones and RC models where you need massive current from a tiny battery. They like to go on fire. Lifepo4 or lfp are used for energy storage and electric vehicles as they are cheap and stable. They can still fail and vent flammable toxic gas which is why they should probably be contained and vented to outside any living/sleeping areas. They don't generally spontaneously go on fire though.

[@chrislee1099]

Great safety video, I know zip about electrics, that's why I use ecoflow generator, found your last video about battery's interesting

[@UrbanVanlife]

Thanks for sharing

[@malcolmocallaghan9619]

Respect for passing on the information as soon as you got it . Without people like yourselves a lot of people could have lost their vehicles.

[@anthonyellis1409]

Emma yes safe is best but is it as safe as thay say,

[@UrbanVanlife]

For us it’s another layer of protection, and the correct fuse that should be used, there are other less expensive types which are just as safe but we couldn’t fit that in our set up due to space constraints but more safety in our opinion is never a bad thing!

[@chuck3566]

I had a gel battery with a acid battery and the gel battery caused a fire

[@Willzivanlife]

Nice one guys I’ve just ordered one!! Only fitted our new 628ah today too

[@gavshomebrew]

fair play for the install of the fuse i feel the supplyer or manafactue need to educate thair coustomers on safe practices for lithium batteries people realydont understand. the amount of energy these attabatteries contain great video very Well explained safe and happy adventures all the best gav keep up the good videos

[@UrbanVanlife]

I think it’s more end user to be honest mate . There are plenty of dangers and we have to take our selves accountable . I mean you can buy a Stanley blade in B&M but no one tells you to be careful with it . And we all have cuts to prove that lol

[@gavshomebrew]

@ verry true

[@lifeonthehighway6917]

Or even document it within there fitting instructions would possibly be a solution.

[@zummerzetwoodsman1067]

Excellent, iv been banging on about these fuses for some time. Everyone thought i did not know what i was on about .but it doesn't protect your battery, but it will stop your wires from melting.

[@Mark-z1x1]

@@zummerzetwoodsman1067 bms will stop your wires melting faster than the fuse

[@danny323dee]

any normal fuse will stop your wire from melting. was he saying he didnt have any fuse in his cicuit or did he replace a #20 fuse for a #60 fuse?

[@zummerzetwoodsman1067]

@danny323dee especially when it arcs(aic) over and continues to deliver many thousands of amps

[@karlcronin6589]

I had tried to find T ratted fuses but was coming up blank. Thanks for the information.

[@UrbanVanlife]

All the links are in the description mate It’s called a class t fuse not t rated

[@tine8849]

Not all Lithium is made the same. LiFePO4 Prismatic Cells are very safe the don't just explode or set on fire like lithium-ion cells that scare the crap out of me every time I have to replace them. Plus the BMS if set properly just cuts off power anytime something happens out of spec, that being said I can't argue with having a proper fused system so I'll probably get one of these too.

[@alanhat5252]

A BMS is a computer & we all know how reliable computers are !

[@holdenman8850]

@@alanhat5252 Your brain is a computer and we all know how reliable computers are

[@yngndrw.]

Some commenters have mentioned that Fogstar has recommended additional fusing - If the manufacturer doesn't trust their own BMS, why should anyone else? Also, if we ignore the BMS (Which would apply to any chemistry if we could trust it) - The chemistry doesn't really make it any safer. Here's a scenario: 1) You short out your LiFePO4 battery, the high fault current (6kA?) exceeds the interrupt rating of your fuse and welds it closed. 2) The battery heats and the fault current reduces, let's say 4-600A. The chemistry is "safe" so the battery itself doesn't combust. 3) You now have a continuous 4-600A flowing through your main battery cables, your failed fuse, your isolator and whatever else up until the short. We're talking about 240mm² to 500mm² cable needed to survive this without becoming a heater. (Sizes may vary depending on where you look, but it's big) You're still going to end up with a major fire risk either way, just at different speeds.

[@Sabumnim666]

Arcing is from the voltage

[@commonsense-grs]

Having this type of fuse is a good idea, will have a look at my 270ah lithium setup in my van. You do seem to be talking about lithium ion which is far more volatile than lithium LifePO4 which will not explode like you said. But I'm sure you are using LifePO4 lithium batteries. I do agree, be as safe as you can. But I do get a little tied, OMG, you have lithium batteries in your caravan, aren't you scared they will blow up, no. Even had this talking to the builders of our new 12M marine rescue boat. We had in our specs, 300ah of lithium house batteries, they put in AGM, oh we are still on the fence with the safety of lithium. I just about hit the roof, lithium are just as safe or even safer than AGM when using quality batteries, quality hardware and installed by qualified people. Quality lithium batteries have a BMS and I'm sure you know what this is and this is first line of defense with any major faults with your battery system. Sorry for the long rant, but I do agree, a class T fuse is a good idea, but where do you stop.

[@UrbanVanlife]

Emma here. We agree LifePO4 are safer and the BMS is the first line of safety but for us we just want to be as safe as possible, we didn’t know about these fuses for lithium as many others didn’t who we spoke to, but again that is down to user error (ie us not doing enough research when we had them first put in the van) to which we held our hand up, but also have learnt that BMS’s can also fail, so for us it’s about having another added protection. Many people fit things into their vans and do not know enough to be doing it so we wanted to raise some awareness for people to look into things.

[@smc5155]

Hi. So are u saying that you’ve NEVER used fuses on your batteries system in the past OR you have but not the correct type and relied on the BMS? I have inline fuses on my lithium LiFePO4 set up, just not the one you mention, as I have never heard or had it recommended in the past. Thanks

[@antmck33]

I spoke with fogstar when fitting my 300ah and yes, they did recommend a T class fuse. I described my installation and that I planned on using an MRBF fuse and they advised that this is also sufficient.

[@UrbanVanlife]

Yer they do recomend it . And both systems are great thank you for pointing this out

[@markbell7859]

What size class t fuse did you use for your 300ah set up😊

[@jampam-jf8mt]

I fuse everything, including the solar panels.

[@pnaty97]

I’ve got a mega fuse set up on my leisure batteries and I’ve only got 140 amp/h setup. Especially important when you’ve got massive cables feeding a 3kw inverter. Well done for highlighting the safety issue :)

[@WhipperdeetsAdventures]

I didn’t know this either 😢 which fuse range should you order? Great video❤

[@UrbanVanlife]

We got told 200amp fuse but I’d recomend talking to 12v plannet and see what they recommend

[@WhipperdeetsAdventures]

@ ok thank you ☺️ 🤗🤗💪

[@jonathanhiggins504]

Great info thank you what amp do you recommend?

[@UrbanVanlife]

I’d talk to 12v plannet and see what they say for your system we got told 200amp but you may need smaller or higher

[@UrbanVanlife]

We would recommend speaking to someone with more knowledge than us for your system, depending on what system you have and the variables. We spoke to our battery manufacturer and the team at 12 volt planet and they guided us as to what we needed.

[@allandevaux4123]

Good video. What amp size fuze did you buy please? 😎

[@UrbanVanlife]

We were advised a 200amp but that’s for our system . I’d ask 12v plannet that are great for advice

[@Moonlightshadw1]

Why are these not fitted as standard ?

[@UrbanVanlife]

We have a few people in the comment section with a lot more electrical knowledge than ourselves who do and have fitted these with the batteries from install, think it’s more to do with user error than anything, we hold our hands up and admit we didn’t know about these fuses, but there are more knowledgeable people than ourselves who have given us information and advice. More and more people like ourselves are doing it themselves is where the issue comes in and do not have a wealth of knowledge, we have never calmed to be electrician’s, or have all the answers we just want to be safer in our van.

[@imark7777777]

It's hard to tell from the video but it looks like your disconnect switch is just a switch and not a fuse or breaker so yeah not having a fusing in line would be pretty bad.

[@UrbanVanlife]

It’s an isolation swich

[@guywhoknows]

Lol. Thata so funny and a drama. 1. They use victron... Victron use mega fuses. 2. There lithium-ion batteries.. There not, theyre lithium fe-ion.. no blow up... 3. Could have got a ketto which is much less. 4. A battery Has a bms with current protection. 5 a full short will, blow a fuse and trip the bms. The bms will likely go back on, but the fuse will break the circuit. It wont come back on with a short and welded fuse. Now if you habe a lithium battery ... And you get a battery short (fairly common) you get a fire ball, but as they are internal no fuse is going to help you. 😢 If you do by chance, wire, fuse/breaker, correctly, then your unlikely to have any issues... Now this can be fairly rare from what ive seen 😊

[@UrbanVanlife]

Soooooo !!!!!! What happens if the BMS fails ??? 1 cos they do 2 cables that are not fused will go on fire Extra saftey is never a bad thing

[@guywhoknows]

@UrbanVanlife bms can and they do, but usually its a lower level of fault rendering the thing useless. The new code is that batteries have breakers on them or in them. I did mention cable fuses. But people can often put them in the wrong place... Far from the battery. Fuses work and what you described with arching is higher voltage. There is a table online

[@ZerHour]

Great info guys ,another point to note ,I wonder if everyone has bonded there AC consumer units earth to the chassis correctly to a separate earth point than the negatives earth on the DC side they Must be on separate points on the chassis even though they both go to earth ,take care 👍🚐👍🚐

[@alangrobnik1769]

Why are the battery companies not telling people about this as they should know this as they are selling them ?????

[@UrbanVanlife]

Well all I can say is B&M don’t warn you that razor blades are sharp . It’s one of them things that we should all do our own research when buying and fitting things in our van . You would be shocked on how many people use the wrong thickness of wireing in there builds . Which is equally as dangerous

[@aureltanasan1413]

I got to give it a thumbs up on this one. Well done guys for bringing such an important safety characteristic, associated with large lithium battery banks, specially paralleled batteries. The mega fuse is good for max 2kA fault current. A lithium bank can exceed 5-6kA fault current. Class T is a very wise and safe route, also there is OutBack DC breakers that are rated at 10kA fault current interruption, and cost about £60.

[@yngndrw.]

As another commenter has pointed out, the interrupt rating of some fuses may depend on voltage. The linked class T fuses are rated to 20kA across the whole voltage range (125V or 160V, depending on the make), but the MRBF fuses' interrupt rating varies between 10kA at 14V and only 2kA at 58V. Unfortunately, battery manufacturers such as Fogstar do not specify the maximum fault current in their datasheets. This information should be provided by a reliable manufacturer so that the appropriate protection may be correctly selected.

[@mspsychgenius]

Thanks for this! Looking into it now!

[@Lynchpin30]

Sorry to ask but can you explain where the fuse needs to be installed? Is it on the positive that’s going from the battery to the inverter?

[@UrbanVanlife]

On the posative from battery to your whole 12v system.

[@Lynchpin30]

Thank you.

[@themartinandersson]

I believe it depends on which side is grounded. You'll want to put the fuse on the opposite side. Usually, the negative side is grounded so usually the fuse goes on the positive side. All this according to my AI chatbot, who unfortunately could not in a clear manner explain any of the rationale to me.

[@RIFox-op8gr]

Well done to Boatman ! for high lighting .....in first place...always somebody about with better way of explaining things ...Doh !

[@Shan-outnabout]

Thanks for sharing info x

[@UrbanVanlife]

You’re welcome 😊

[@zenzen9131]

Anyone trained in this subject would know this. I think that the biggest problem is that people are installing electrical systems in their vans without any knowledge or training. They think that looking at a few KZbin videos will cover all the points. It wont !

[@UrbanVanlife]

Every ones not trained tho and people like to have a go . People do diy all the time and learn as they go . And let’s be honest with out KZbin no one would learn any thing . It’s become a valuable source of knollage

[@thattoolguy9432]

This is why i always tell people to get electrical systems fitted by a qualified engineer. i recently had a camper in that had inverter and tripping issues, after doing an initial check over , the install wasn't bad but needed improvement. The big problem arose when doing an insulation resistance test, it failed . the cable looked new and the owner showed me receipts, but turns out the cable was cheap fake of a branded cable. While i understand budget constraints etc, you spend all the cash on fancy inverters, charge controllers and batteries, yet miss the thing that ultimately keeps you safe . Good video and it will help the DIY'ers to keep a little bit safer

[@gazwolves9489]

Well done Neil lad good info always learning

[@UrbanVanlife]

Thanks 👍

[@bandodroneracingfpv9465]

Lifepo4 is different from lithium. I built my own lifepo4 camper battery.. your Bms should have some protection too. Alot off people scared because off the ebike fires lately which use lithium not lifepo4. 😂😂

[@A.S.K.1]

E-Bikes (etc) use "Lithium-Ion" batteries. LiFePO4 batteries ALSO use lithium...but are Lithium Iron Phosphate. Li (lithium) Fe (Iron) PO4 (phosphate) Different chemistry but still lithium.

[@uptowndisco2]

most modern E Bikes are now using Lifepo4 , but watch out for the dirt cheap bikes from the far east who due to cost will likely be using the cheapest they can get away with .

[@UrbanVanlife]

So is lipo4 not lithium and are bms units in batteries not fool proof . We both know the answer is yes and for a small fee isn’t best to have a little more saftey in your van or do we just leave things to hope

[@bandodroneracingfpv9465]

@ So its different? been using both for over 20 year. still waiting for the big explosion.

[@bandodroneracingfpv9465]

@ yes mate you are correct, i do also have a fuse fitted for extra safety. lifepo4 is lithium but different chemistry. it does'nt explode like lithium ion. Its the gases that they vent that are well nasty.

[@HandyBeinAndy]

Thanks for the heads up lad just ordered one 👍 I'm over the water I'd appreciate you having a look over my set up sometime when ur not busy... Andy 👍

[@Andyfascia]

Wow scary 😮 Thanks Neil and Emma for putting this out to us all 👏 just ordered mine and again thanks for keeping us save ❤

[@themartinandersson]

lol maybe you should have read the comments first. The video is scaremongering.

[@fifthwheeladventures]

If you use lifepo4 batteries with a built in BMS, in the event of a short circuit the BMS will reach its maximum output and shut down, so a mega fuse should be ample as the fuse would faail and the BMS shut off the power. There arent many people fitting the expensive fast blow fuses.

[@UrbanVanlife]

If your happy with the built in bms that you can’t see and don’t know if it will or will not break the flow then that’s ok . Personally for the money we have spent on our van a little extra level of saftey for under £100 then I’ll take it . Guess it’s each to their own . And there arnt many people fitting these fuses that’s correct . But there are also people still fitting Amazon breakers and not mega fuses . I just know when it comes to saftey I’ll feel a lot happier with more than less

[@DarlyB]

Remember the class t has two used, 1) protect from an overload of the rated amps - so in this vid its rated at 200amp. 2) Protect from a short somewhere after the class t as if this happens the battery will dump its entire contents in a split second, this fuse will not only blow because it goes over is rating but then stop an arc happening which could very well in a bms unless its been potted (Victron?). Not only does it protect you if faffing on the electrical system and you're waving leads around, but what about in an accident who knows whats going to get damaged etc. Its food for thought, so like UV I designed my system with one in place and its connected about 10cm from the battery positive before then connecting to the bms etc.

[@lifeonthehighway6917]

Safer Emma & Neil knowing that you both sleep above it to during the night ❤

[@Markus-UK]

What size fuse did you fit and why? Switch could be accessible inside. Battery, fuse, cable and switch are exposed to impact etc. Better nonconductive and impact insulation over both battery terminals. .. what type of washers are another world.

[@stevemartin5581]

The latest here in Australia is the lipo batteries on new builds have to be housed in a metal sealed compartment with gas venting to the exterior , if the the RV is able to connect to mains power . Toxic smoke is a concern with a battery fault fire . The linked supplier have run out of stock , interesting .

[@grahamunderwood9353]

once again an informative vlog. , something i have noticed and wondered when seeing people upgrading to larger batteries is how many upgrade their kill switches to as they also have a maximum current load

[@debbiewalsh-h4g]

Neil.ive just watched you video on lithium batteries. Scary stuff. But don't you think the people who.sell these batteries should inform you about these special fuses? Surely it's their responsibility to help people fit these batteries properly and safely. After all they are not cheap are they?

[@UrbanVanlife]

Well no not really I mean dose B&M inform you that Stanley blades are sharp and you may cut your finger the same as camper cooker sales people don’t warn you that gas goes boom They don’t and we find out after cutting our fingers or blowing our selves up There is a point when we our selves have to look at what we are doing and do the research . Not all company’s are liable for user error to be honest And if you ask them they will tell you but the question has to be asked I think Lots of people have asked this but when you think about it there are so many things that we are not told about things .i mean pogo sticks I have many scars from them as a kid but no one told me they could kill mw

[@touringaroundwithrosie]

We are just in the process of assembling a fogstar DIY kit battery and there is a fused bus bar for the positive terminal inside the battery, would this not be enough to protect against the failure your taking about or is putting the extra fuse on like yourselves or campervan codgers a must ? We didn't know about this and want to make sure we stay as safe as possible!

[@UrbanVanlife]

Best bit of information we can give is speak to fogstar and see what their advice is we are not electricians and do not want to give incorrect information about your system, we got advice from people with a lot more knowledge than us at 12 volt planet and they walked us through what we needed for our system.

[@touringaroundwithrosie]

@UrbanVanlife Thanks for replying, we will get on to them. Really enjoyed the video! 😃

[@alexb9498]

Hi guys. You are using LFP BATTERY yes as there more safer ?

[@alanhat5252]

saf-ER, not SAFE

[@alexb9498]

@@alanhat5252 much safer than Lithium-ion battery and less likely to catch on fire. brought my EV that has LFP battery if I was in a accident less likely to catch on fire. still haven't answer my question yet , "what Battery are you using"

[@yan0132]

Gaffer taper on cables. Extreme bends in cable. Exposed positive terminals from bus bar. Cheap Chinese inverters. Fabric items near the dc-dc which is under a bed. Brass screws hanging out of your cut off switch. I wouldn’t be giving advice to anyone about electrics.

[@UrbanVanlife]

No tape round terminals No posative exposed No fabric near any thing No brass screws hanging out Inverters been in for 3 years and used every day and works fine Sure you watching the right video mate Seems like you need a little hug my love . Have a lovely day in your world

[@richardnunn3205]

Most modern vehicles are fitted with a Pyrofuse to protect the multiple electric circuits and management systems.

[@UrbanVanlife]

True story ,

[@alanhat5252]

7:08 all the instructions say "put fuses on your battery" & most recommend a specific fuse. (When sizing it don't forget a 3KW inverter is going to peak somewhere over 300Amps on a 12V system, likely over 400A).

[@Mark-z1x1]

@@alanhat5252 did you see his inverter installation in the video? Most likely will burn as well.

[@UrbanVanlife]

@Mymail-z1x hasn’t burnt in 3 years of daily use

[@Mark-z1x1]

​@@UrbanVanlife Heat travels upward. If it hasn't burned yet, it will shorten lifespan. : )

[@69racer69]

Thank you for bringing this important bit of safety advice to light. Also for saying about both options that you know about, I’ll be ordering one of the solutions very soon. Thanks again

[@stuartwilliams3363]

What size fuse did you put In there?

[@UrbanVanlife]

We used a 200amp fuse but we spoke to 12v planet before and they advised us

[@stuartwilliams3363]

Cool thanks, I’ve the same battery and defo need this fuse

[@alanhat5252]

​​@@UrbanVanlifethat fuse's limit is around 2KW off the inverter, how big is your inverter & do you run anything else at the same time?

[@theangrygingerthebananavan4207]

Interesting, it’s never ending. Currently looking at switching from AGM to Lifepo4 so found this useful What size fuse did you use? Thanks

[@UrbanVanlife]

We spoke to people with much more knowledge on electrics than us to get the correct size fuse for our battery, as you need to work out the maximum current your circuit would draw by dividing the power (watts) by the volts ie battery size then going slightly higher, we aren’t electricians and they gave us answers we needed, even if you do not buy from them 12 volt planet have a really good customer service team and are really helpful with all this information

[@theangrygingerthebananavan4207]

@ cheers

[@George_the_VW_Crafter]

Great info for everyone who has that type of battery fitted. Unless someone tells you or points you in the right direction direction how would you know. Drew