CONSTANT PEG Pilots React to Unseen Footage - 4477th TES Red Eagles

[@stingginner1012]

Outstanding video and commentary. In 1979 I was stationed at Luke AFB assigned to the Avionics back shop. I had been cut trained in all three flight line avionics career fields. I was called into the branch chiefs office one morning for an interview for a special assignment. A guy I had never seen before asked me a series of questions about my background and seemed to like my answers. When asked if I had any questions about the assignment, he refused to answer most of them saying it was classified. I then asked if this had anything to do with the MIGs I had seen flying over Navada. A shocked look came over his face and the interview was terminated. I later transitioned to the F-16 and had the chance to write the promotion tests for Avionics for the F-15, F-16, B-1, and A-10. My last assignment in the AF was as Superintendent for Avionics and Test Equipment on the B-2 Bomber at the SPO on Wright Patterson AFB. It wasn't until 1982 that I found out about Constant Peg, and still didn't know much beyond we had MIGs. It would have been fun to have been part of this history.

[@10percenttrue]

You ever find out what the assignment was?

[@stingginner1012]

I'm sure it had something to do with MIGs@@10percenttrue

[@matthewnewnham-runner-writer]

Fascinating footage and colour commentary. I first got confirmation of the Constant Peg MiGs in 1986 when I was part of the Green Flag team. I took the opportunity to drive up from Nellis to Tonopah to visit the range and watch the action from a different perspective. I floated a teaser question to one of the guys in an observation hut about whether he'd ever seen any unusual (ahem) aircraft. He replied by telling me that they were under orders to put the lens cover on the cameras when the MiGs were flying past. The gig was pretty much blown by then anyway as too many of us had heard that Gen Bond's crash in '84 had been in a MiG 23.

[@forenamesurname1183]

imagine being the pilot who ferrys 8 of these pilots to work each day - talk about back seat flying

[@jaazielgarcia3938]

These guys are legends...including Paco and the rest of the Red Eagles.. they make me feel as if I was there living those moments, great storytellers. There should be a movie about this project. The story Paco tells about the Russians asking how many Migs they had is hilarious 😆

[@Senor0Droolcup]

I'll never forget being 14 years old in 1984 reading the account of General Robert Bond's death, the newspaper article outrageously suggesting that he died flying a MiG fighter kept at a "secret base" somewhere inside the NTTR. I remember going to the library and asking for the most detailed map of Nevada they had on hand spreading it out on a table and thinking "OK; secret base that hosts MiGs out in the NTTR... NOW WHERE THE *$%$ COULD THAT PLACE BE?" It's wonderful for amateur historians like me to have Google Maps satellite view but I kind of miss the days where all you had was USGS maps and a dog-eared copy of Aviation Week. The world seemed more magical back then.

[@10percenttrue]

I get that. I remember rushing to get a copy of Flight International the day I heard that the first picture of the 'Stealth Fighter' had been revealed. Having spent hundreds of hours flying Microprose F-19, and having built both the stealth fighter kits that had come out (Testors and ??), I was desperate to know what it was really all about!

[@AvengerII]

@@10percenttrue I think the earliest reference I read to Area 51 was in the book "Red Flag" that might have been written by George Hall, the late aviation photographer. It definitely had photos shot by him in it! These were the day the USAF was still using F-5Es for dogfight practice. Anyway, this book, which I no longer own, was published in a trade and pocketbook/novel-size format. I had the pocketbook version with awful black-and-white photo reproductions. I recommend the trade version with full-color photos (higher quality than the pocketbook for sure!) but you might pay a nice pocket of change for it now! The "Red Flag" book had a reproduction of a map of Nevada with the nuclear test sites and areas indicated. I don't know if "51" was indicated on the map BUT the secret base was alluded to in the text. This was pre-1990, probably 1987! Hall's photo books were all excellent. I have his USAFE, Top Gun, Air Guard (about the Air National Guard), and Edwards/Super Base books. These were post-1985 books but published prior to 1991. All recommended. His Top Gun book was released the same year as the original film and had photos of behind the scenes of F-14s and A-4s dogfighting for the film. It's still one of the best Top Gun/base books published. This was, of course, when Top Gun was based at Miramar north of San Diego. The locals in Nevada always knew SOMETHING was up in the desert. They saw the A-12 and U-2 well before the general public.

[@Ian-Saxon]

Absolutely fascinating Steve and guys. When that hangar door opened and 7 flogger came into view!!!!. Seems surreal. I'm slowly working my way through the uploads and they just keep getting more superb. This channel is fantastic.

[@kevinhedspeth4303]

Outstanding book!! Gives a great insight to the background of the Red Eagles...a must read for any aviation enthusiast!

[@10percenttrue]

Thanks, Kevin. Glad you enjoyed it.

[@tyesalhus5604]

I love this channel. It’s one of if not the best aircraft channels around. Steve has the ability to get really amazing people with amazing stories. Definitely is a trustworthy and honest guy for these men to share their stories and experiences. Not many people that have had Top Secret clearances will share any classified information. Some will and I’m sure Steve has heard some things that are classified but won’t share that information. But having it makes for better books and better videos. I would like to see more documentary style videos along with interviews

[@KernowekTim]

Brilliant episode Steve. Really top-drawer! I managed to grab a new copy of the first edition of 'Red Eagles'. Damn lucky, it was one of two.

[@10percenttrue]

Thanks, Tim! Enjoy the book!

[@Hannsfeld]

They mentioned the guy in the cockpit while being towed... We always had a 'brake rider' that had to ride during a tow in case the tow bar broke so they could stop the aircraft from running into buildings, other aircraft, or the Coleman. We never towed any aircraft without a brake rider.

[@ga9633]

Pilots have a lot of love for crew chiefs but there were others who maintained the jets as well, known as specialists. I worked on the F-4E/G radar and was at George AFB in the 563rd AMU. One of the guys who worked hydraulics, Mike Bond, was the son of Lt. Gen Robert Bond who was killed in a MiG-23 crash at Tonopah (we also called it Dreamland). I heard Mike was killed in a motorcycle crash after I PCSd to Korea.

[@LRRPFco52]

We used to see F-4Gs out of George all the time. That's crazy that father and son suffered those fates.

[@LRRPFco52]

I remember when General Bond died. That was a big deal. I also served in Korea in the 90s.

[@pwr2al4]

I wonder how close some of these guys may of gotten to being the high time pilots in either the -21 or -23 worldwide during the years they were active in the squadron. Makes me chuckle just thinking about it.

[@KrisRamJ]

Awesome video, its breathtaking to see this MiGs at TR, loved the Red Eagles book too, it's definitely highly recommended for anyone who enjoyed this video - so many amazing stories

[@10percenttrue]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@randycook7318]

As a prior DCC. I love the respect you have for your maintaince personal... I have had pilots step out and jump in .... Now supervision has to check if you washed your hands after taking a leak. Different world anymore😢

[@ngfan7476]

Great way to publish the video, Steve! Stunning history. Great info and commentary by Ted and Rob. Keep it coming...

[@Jim_Austin]

Really enjoyed this! Sounds like it was a great duty assignment for the pilots and the support crew.

[@10percenttrue]

Glad you enjoyed it, Jim!

[@scottmanning8739]

This is gold.

[@sedlo]

Outstanding, can't wait to hear this one! Steve, I was wondering what you thought of when you saw that photo of the Viper in Star Wars Canyon where the crew had a Red Eagles and a Red Hats "more with less" patch. The squadrons continue today, or just a joke on the photographers? I've heard Red Flag comms where Red players seem to originate at Groom Lake (w/ callsign changes, etc), so I wonder if some of these aircraft were even flying US Red Flags? The whole black world of aviation in Nevada is so fascinating.

[@10percenttrue]

Sim the Red Eagles certainly still exist today - Det 3, 53d TEG, ACC. I've met a few of them and have their squadron patch :) The Air Force website confirms that they are involved in foreign military exploitation... and there are some very good indications that they operate the Su-27 and MiG-29. Yes, Nevada is home to some wonderful secrets!

[@_Majik]

@@10percenttrue It's always fun to see those shots of modern explotations, and that Viper shot with the patches visable was a hoot to see. F117s have been spotted flying again fairly regularly recently, and I always wonder if they're involved. Agree with Sedlo that the whole world of Avaition around those parts is fascinating, thanks for bringing us all of this content around it!! p.s: Sedlo has created some incredibly fun DCS missions around Red Flag, Constant Peg and the like if you haven't already seen, well worth trying

[@10percenttrue]

Thanks, Majik. Flying Sim's DCS missions is high on my list of things to do as soon as I get my sim rig up and running again!

[@Senor0Droolcup]

@@10percenttrue Now this is very interesting: Would explain what happened to thos Moldovan MiGs that DoD supposedly bought. OTOH, you have Indian and Ukrainian MiG/Sukhois actually participating in Red Flag, correct? Could you get the same level of exposure through that? I guess not. You'd want a dedicated USAF unit that can train others full-time...... One other question: is there any indication that foreign pilots (thinking Israeli Air Force) have ever done exchanges in a Red Eagle unit?

[@10percenttrue]

Brian, I don't think that the quality of the exposure from Red Flag participants would be anywhere near as good. Lots of reasons for that, to include the fact that the guests are most likely to want to keep the full extent of their capabilities and tactics secret, even from allied nations. Then, of course, there is the question of scale! As for Israeli exchanges, I am pretty sure that IDF pilots have been hosted at Groom Lake on occasion, but for specific exploitations, and not for exchanges per se.

[@yxeaviationphotog]

Got the book a few years ago and it is an excellent read!

[@pietluijken3357]

Amazing video. Just amazing to see these migs in us skies on video!

[@AndrewTubbiolo]

I'd love to have been a fly on the wall when the first Soviet photo interpreter viewed the first rolls of film to expose the outlines of MiGs on the tarmac of Tonapah.

[@codyi5232]

I work in private sector but I’ve heard the stories of when the flanker d was acquired for groom. They literally sent an entire cadre of human intelligence assets as retaliation from chengdu and sukhoi.

[@therocinante3443]

That was great to watch. Thanks for making this!

[@10percenttrue]

My pleasure. Glad you enjoyed it.

[@rickellington4238]

remember Steve from the strike eagle website days!!! Got his red eagle book and also Evil Pecks book on red eagles both are off the chain

[@10percenttrue]

Hey, Rick!

[@rickellington4238]

@@10percenttrue Whats shakin dude!!!! :-)

[@Bebold94]

It would have been great to hear stories from these guys about their memories of this time and explanations, if possible. Nonetheless I certainly enjoyed this.

[@10percenttrue]

Did you see kzbin.info/www/bejne/qmiVp3aJerKCi8k and kzbin.info/www/bejne/eoXWaWtmhsqmndE

[@robo3915]

Had no idea you wrote a book too! Will see if I can find it. Great stuff as usual!!

[@10percenttrue]

Thanks, Robert. I think my final tally was 16 books written before I had to grow up and get a real job!

[@10percenttrue]

Here’s a link on Amazon: www.amazon.com/Red-Eagles-Americas-Secret-MiGs-ebook/dp/B01DPPTRD2/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Red+eagles&qid=1604528353&sr=8-1

[@chrisbrand5728]

Z-MAN! You were so stuck up dude, but a great pilot. Loved when I could catch a C12 instead of Key, I knew I wouldn't get drooled on. Some of the "antics" pilots "performed" before the late '80's are unforgettable.

[@arrrg3846]

Nice commentary guys. Super!

[@10percenttrue]

Yeah, they did a great job!

[@rtd8934]

Is there a version of the raw footage with no commentary?

[@rrr7991]

Superb as always, Steve - long awaited and certainly 'delivered'. I take it that the 'petting zoo' hangar birds were permanently withdrawn from use airframes (and used for spares also) especially as MiG-21 bort Red 85 appears in front of the same US flag in stills you've published? It would fit with other 'petting zoo' aircraft at Nellis, etc..

[@10percenttrue]

Many thanks! Z and Gabby said that they rotated the airframes in and out of the VIP hangar, primarily because the ones they had on site were all flyable and were all kept in such good condition that you could have a VIP take a look at them. Yes, Red 85 is the same one as in my book and the same one as I photographed at the Eglin Armament museum and published photographs of in the second edition of the book. I talked to the curator at Eglin about the acquisition of the aircraft and asked him when he knew they were going to receive it. I don't recall his exact words, but they were something along the lines of: "I got a call on Friday and told that on Monday there'd be a crate waiting outside when we opened. I was told to unpack it and not to ask any questions". He showed me the paperwork for it - it was almost completely blank.

[@rrr7991]

@@10percenttrue Ha! Superb, Steve. Cheers - Mike

[@Anolbea]

Really enjoyed that. Thanks.

[@10percenttrue]

Glad you enjoyed it. Thank you for watching!

[@gunslinger91mcgillicuddy52]

This is nostalgic awesomeness!!!

[@f16cowboy]

Great watch! Anyone knows what the patch with black star means?

[@10percenttrue]

Thanks, Ed. Black patch was simply the subdued version for wearing on camouflaged (BDU) uniforms.

[@JD-xh3ex]

great stuff.

[@TannerG151]

The one at the usaf museum is big number 39. Little number on gear cover 25.

[@10percenttrue]

So, it’s “Article #25”. Thanks for confirming.

[@TheMonkeytrumpetz]

Really interesting video. A bit curious as to why the Test guys seem to be a lot less publicized. Maybe something to do with where they flew out of? I’d be interested in hearing these guys’ opinions on the matter since the test and tac pilots weren’t exactly the best of friends from what I’ve heard lol.

[@10percenttrue]

I think it's about a) location, and b) the fact that they are still operational (albeit under a different unit number). The original declassification of CONSTANT PEG also only came about, I think, because there was a senior sponsor in the Pentagon to make it happen.

[@Thornus_______]

Could you imagine what it was like to be an Air Force pilot or a Navy pilot seeing those planes for the first time

[@williamcollins2011]

Ward Carroll speak about this very thing in his pod cast. The first time pilots see it , they are infected with "buck fever" immediately and takes then a brief second or two to react. that was part of what the red eagles did; give pilots and RIOS a "taste" of what a MiG looked like and performed....up close and personal. That way the next time one is sen, they don't hesitate

[@falconeaterf15]

Read the book years ago. I remember they upgraded the Russian RWRs with radar detectors purchased from Radio Shack.

[@geoffreywallington2930]

What was the rtionale behind needing the pilots to fly in and out every day, but the maintainers and other support personnel did not?

[@10percenttrue]

They never flew at night, and where possible they would fly back to Nellis at the end of each day to debrief in person (although, they would also debrief over the phone). That meant that they could brief in person early the next morning before heading back to TTR.

[@briancooper2112]

Great book

[@sharizabel2582]

I remember flying against MiG-29’s from Germany. Easy to see the smoking engines.

[@10percenttrue]

What did you fly, Shari?

[@sharizabel2582]

I flew several; F-4E, RF-4C, F-111G/F, EF-111A, EA-6B, F-15E. I was the back/right seater.

[@jato62]

Incredible

[@robertgrimes2081]

Had to say, 10 % true is awesome stream. Bingo means your out of fuel . i love flying video's

[@10percenttrue]

Thanks, Robert.

[@malcolmmckinlay2143]

3 hours on the clock,how on earth did they get hold of these aircraft

[@10percenttrue]

They bought them from China. At that time, there was a cordial relationship between the two countries on such matters.

[@scottfeatherstone7156]

Very cool

[@KytkaHilmarJezek]

alias J.J. Bass.?

[@anttiruo]

37:00 Torille!

[@darryl5684]

I have a Red Eagles 4477th Tes badge

[@bobbyguns100]

So we had that Russian Jet in the picture ?

[@10percenttrue]

Yeah. That's a MiG-23MS with Ted Drake's name on the side. The guy in front of it is Rob Zettle.

[@bobbyguns100]

@@10percenttrue wow that’s crazy, it’s really amazing the way governments wheel and deal behind the curtains to get the advantage. That’s some Hollywood stuff right there man ! This would make a amazing movie !

[@10percenttrue]

Agreed! No idea why they haven’t made the film to date!

[@ВладимирКрылов-щ1й]

На видео из советских самолётов только МиГ-23БН. На остальных показанных самолётах только "звёзды" советские - F-5 и китайская версия "МиГ-21Ф-13" никогда на вооружении СССР не находились.

[@AndrewTubbiolo]

I would imagine we obtained the MiG-23's from Egypt.

[@ВладимирКрылов-щ1й]

@@AndrewTubbiolo The video also shows the MiG-23BN. This is a fighter-bomber (for work on ground targets) and not very effective in aerial combat. The Egyptian Air Force had MiG-23BNs.

[@ВладимирКрылов-щ1й]

The video also shows not the MiG-21, but the J-7H aircraft made in China.

[@AndrewTubbiolo]

@@ВладимирКрылов-щ1й Thanks for that information.

[@AndrewTubbiolo]

@@ВладимирКрылов-щ1й The pilots say the squadron operated both MiG-21 and J-7. The J-7's were brand new, the MiG-21s were rebuilt/refurbished.

[@TheOneTrueChris]

@39:23 I was surprised to see a female pilot among the group (and that's a good thing, don't get me wrong).

[@10percenttrue]

Zara N. She was the squadron Intel officer.

[@Dan-qp1el]

I'm fascinated by landing gear, and this one is pretty neat. Video of how it works: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aKvGoot3qteqe6M

[@mikehammon8316]

For just a second in the video it looked like a female in the squadron. Were there any women pilots or support crew in the squadron?

[@10percenttrue]

Hi Mike. That was the Intel officer, Zara Newton. Yes, there were other females in support roles, too. No female aircrew, though.

[@mikehammon8316]

@@10percenttrue That's about right from my time in fighters. Now, however, I'd not be surprised at all to find a couple of really good female sticks in the unit. Thanks for this.

[@10percenttrue]

Did you get exposed to CONSTANT PEG, Mike?

[@mikehammon8316]

@@10percenttrue No, sadly I was sentenced to work on the Air Staff at the Pentagon, by then.

[@jaazielgarcia3938]

Also wondered about a possible woman RedEagle pilot @ 39:23

[@bjbbiker]

Back when fighter Pilots were real men! 😂😉

[@UncleBoratagain]

hold it! a lot of BADASS female combat pilots now: Martha McSally! stands up for our values as well...

[@chief1960]

WHEN THEY RECEIVED THE MIG'S PROBABLY NO NAV GEAR TO STOP DEFECTIONS OUT OF CHINA,AND RUSSIA. IFF WAS GREAT INTELL FOR WESTERN AIR FORCE, MIG 23 VERY FAST ,ALL MIGS ARE VERY TOUGH BUT NEEDED CONSTANT MAINTENANCE,ALCOHOL HYDRAULICS AND MAINTENANCE CREWS IN RUSSIA STAY NEAR SUPPLY DEPOTS.TO STAY DRUNK.