Pronouns | ContraPoints

[@ContraPoints]

WELCOME TO THE FREE SPEECH ZONE

[@historyday9371]

Thanks

[@ElronLaVey]

LoL

[@Sheepyhead]

HIGHWAY TO THE FREE SPEECH ZONE

[@suides4810]

Reeeeeeeeeeeee

[@boleslawpetroski9681]

The notification was delayed for 6 minutes and I think KZbin wants to keep this knowledge from the commoner

[@CarmenBrunnaDuarte]

"Biology is the nature of pronouns" *Calls a boat "she"*

[@ninanano]

DolphinsWIthIgloos English isn’t one of them

[@LisaBeergutHolst]

@DolphinsWIthIgloos The Spanish word _masculinidad_ ('masculinity') has feminine grammatical gender. In French, the masculine noun _cheval_ ('horse') applies equally whether the animal is male or female (as does just about every other name for an animal). Some languages have three grammatical genders instead of two. It all seems pretty arbitrary to me.

[@silvercheetah92]

Language has whatever meaning we assign it

[@edivimaro1975]

@DolphinsWIthIgloos So Language supercedees science? Let's call you a molecule!!

[@edivimaro1975]

@DolphinsWIthIgloos You just did

[@jordansullivan5764]

I especially love that Ben Shapiro slips up and uses Laverne Cox's preferred pronoun in an attempt to quickly explain and bring someone up to speed with the person he's talking about....you know, like what pronouns are literally *for* in language.

[@nikibronson133]

Right

[@vinceknox4425]

I died when he “corrected” his use of she. Like, he has to make sure we all know he’s deliberately working to be asshole

[@amberblackwell7687]

I think he's just mad because we all know how sexy and beautiful Laverne is. That and Laverne is a transwoman with a decent amount of cultural clout. We just can't have that now can we?

[@amberblackwell7687]

Laverne is a transwoman with a decent amount of cultural clout and widespread recognition. We just can't have that now can we?/s

[@ryanthomas9306]

That shit happens. I have a few trans gamer friends, and we all use the preferred she pronouns. But I noticed even the women in our community still call the individuals he when they arent in the room

[@abimon76]

he got the pronouns right BY ACCIDENT LMFAOOOO

[@hiruyabebaw807]

epic embed fail

[@ieatcheese4843]

task failed succesfully

[@neptune2266]

he’s such a dumbass why waste so much energy on misgendering people when you can just be respectful.

[@kertchu]

Really shows how much effort is needed just to misgender people

[@supakawaii69]

The key to this one is issa waste of energy 🔑

[@brageok]

Why does Benjamin call himself "Ben", when his biological name is clearly Benjamin?

[@leafleafleaf9272]

Names are a social construct, being male or female in humans isnt

[@brageok]

​@@leafleafleaf9272 Regardless of how you feel about the difference between sex and gender, and the degree to which they are socially constructed, you have to realize that gendered pronouns are 100% socially constructed.

[@felipeurrego987]

@@brageok I'll one-up you: language as a whole is 100% socially constructed.

[@mauve2121]

@@leafleafleaf9272 except it is

[@darkstar2874]

@@leafleafleaf9272 actually the simplification/generalization that is binary sex IS a social construct, otherwise we’d have at least one umbrella role for when people don’t meet the checklist we made up for male and female (or if we were being really objective one for every kind of variance), but we don’t.

[@SunnyDragonfly]

Parents who have adopted children are "Adoptive parents" yeah, and women who are trans are "trans women." You did it Benny!

[@saltmomtmissad8384]

It's such a good comparison that it's funny to watch him try to use it as a negative

[@superlolgal555]

@@saltmomtmissad8384 yeah I love how a lot of the things he said kind of went against the point he was trying to make.

[@premanadi]

So his problem is that we can say "trans women" but we only have one one version of "she" to use for everyone who is female. OK, just say "T-her," "T-she" and "T-ma'am," and stop complaining, Shapiro.

[@ryanthomas9306]

@@premanadi yah that's so logical

[@typicalo7406]

i hate Benneth Sharpie

[@i.j.dragonfly3123]

"If we don't base our use of pronouns on biology, how will we distinguish between trans and cis women?" You use the words "trans" and "cis," ya goof.

[@pigeon1178]

@hugo zubiria .. what? Buddy. Dude. Oh my god. Pronouns have literally nothing to do with your sex. Also your gender is whatever. It can be as big or a small of a deal as you like it to be, and you clearly think it's huge deal. Just chill. Cis and trans people have different experiences, and those terms can be used to differentiate them. Trans women are women, just as much as tall women are women or black women are woman or fat women are women. It takes just about no effort to use the pronouns the person asks you to and it's just polite

[@gemavaliente7675]

@hugo zubiria why are guys like you so obsessed with other peoples bodies?

[@lokalcrow1470]

@hugo zubiria And how old did you say you were? I refuse to believe you are more than a very spoiled, self-centered and egoistical 7 year old. Your level of ignorance and lack of empathy are astonishing, hope you get to mature someday.

[@ise1441]

OR, and hear me out, OR you don’t bother determining because it doesn’t mean anything? Since they’re both women,l?

[@missingdev0948]

@hugo zubiria nice egoism there buddy

[@tetsubo57]

Ben is going to be really upset when he discovers that all words are made-up.

[@concibar4267]

And so we meet again! ^^ Excellent taste you have

[@Silverwind87]

Word mines don't care about your facts.

[@tetsubo57]

@@concibar4267

[@antebagaric1970]

If I were contrapoints, I'd be embarrassed by the stupidity of my fans. Contra is much smarter than 99% of 'comments' like this. Yes, all words are 'made up'. No, it doesn't mean you can use them any way you like. If you have a barque, you CAN call it 'my war galleon', if it makes you happy. but if you go out on a limb and start insisting that EVERYONE calls your barque 'war galleon' - because you feel like that - and then 'justify' that demand by saying that 'all words are made up anyway - I'm gonna just call you 'dumb'. And you are even free to believe that this MADE-UP word 'dumb', actually means that you are 'highy intelligent'.

[@JC-jd1us]

@@antebagaric1970 words matter sure but you know what matters more? Being polite if someone is really adamant about calling their barque a 'war gallon' then why not? What's the harm in that?

[@helenamirian908]

Ah, I see. Ben was "rewarding" Blaire for being what he considers attractive and feminine by not calling her "sir". 🙄

[@Silverwind87]

Ben Shapiro: Trans people shouldn't be asking others to use certain pronouns, they should be getting medical help. Trans Person: *takes HRT* Ben Shapiro: no not like that

[@undeniablySomeGuy]

only act the way I like, nooo

[@AddedSugar9]

he isnt wrong. We all want different things in life, you get over it and move on. Not chop your dick off and call yourself by a different name.,

[@regularnerd8957]

@@AddedSugar9 Since gender identity isn't something you can "get over and move on", your statement is non practical, useless and wrong.

[@ThePotatoSapien]

@PUNMPKIN what is this conversation XD

[@GoddoDoggo]

@@AddedSugar9 This is like saying, "We all want different things in life, you get over it and move on, not quit your job and move to LA to become a famous actor." SOME people do that, and are in fact very successful at it. It doesn't work for everyone, no, but, like... it does for some. Frankly it sounds like you gave up all of your dreams and ambitions to work in IT and now you're projecting that regret and depression onto everyone else.

[@ctwofirst6635]

Contra, I'm a cis woman in my 60s. I have never felt at all feminine, even though that was the only option for cis women when I was young. You are a gem. I wish women like you existed when I was 20. My life would have been completely different. I feel more free to be more of who I am because you and people like you exist. xx

[@StellaTerraClemens]

Christine Jorgensen came out, very very publicly in 1952. It's not that trans-women weren't around, it's just been a fight that's been going on continuously since the '50s in the US.

[@unblorbosyourshows9635]

This is a beautiful comment :(

[@josh-oo]

Speaking of 60s, how were the 1960s for you? It's a pretty cool decade, just in terms of art and music, so I'm always interested in hearing more personal accounts. If you're willing to share.

[@ohijohnson4259]

Beautiful.

[@ctwofirst6635]

@@josh-oo I was a child of neglectful parents in the 60s. I grew up in San Francisco, so was exposed to lots of amazing music and art. But too young to fully participate, which is something that I regret even though there was nothing I could do about it. It *was* a pretty cool decade - even the 70s were pretty cool, especially compared to what we're dealing with now.

[@jerylian7711]

As a cis woman with no trans acquaintances I find it hard to understand all this stuff sometimes, but the way you explain it answers a lot of questions I had. Please keep doing this. Thank you.

[@DarDarBinks1986]

@@Dawncloak It must have been a pain in the ass to clean up that bathtub afterwards.

[@SuviTuuliAllan]

Somehow I thought it said "as a giant woman" at first and I'm sad because Steven Universe is on hiatus.

[@sardonicsardonyx359]

@@SuviTuuliAllan Speaking of, are you excited about the movie?

[@SuviTuuliAllan]

@@sardonicsardonyx359 As excited as a depressed person can be, I suppose. You?

[@sardonicsardonyx359]

@@SuviTuuliAllan Unpopular opinion, but I think I'm going to be disappointed. SU is like Game Freak; they introduce something that's really cool like Mega Evolution but abandon it in the next generation. SU has cool characters but they take the back burner so often by the time they do develop characters they do so that instead of focusing on what's important. Do I wanna know about Peridot? Yes, but not when the world is at steak and you are taking time to relax in the sun and sing songs! I want to know more about Steven and Connie's relationship? Yes, but not when Lars could be dead in space! I feel like the gem is going to be a really good villain, then be redeemed by the end of the movie, and then never be developed or spoken about ever again.

[@chrisgregoire1246]

I got teary eyed after hearing the analogy about adopted children and parents. The analogy is so on point that it shows how big of an asshole you'd have to be to consciously not call someone by their desired pronouns.

[@brentwalker3300]

Shapiro refuses to do it because by refusing to do so he is virtue signaling. Oh the irony.

[@yoji0]

I'm a cis dork trying to be a good and respectable little ally. But I still have troubles and make self corrections; stuff that gets caught before it ever comes close to leaving my head, but it feels bad. Like there's a fragment of learned transphobia stuck inside there still and I can't cut it out. I feel ashamed a lot because of it. The part about adoptive parents really helped with that. I'm not sure it fixes things completely, but I at least feel pointed in the right direction now.

[@cleo42]

​@@yoji0 don't be too ashamed, even trans people generally have to deal with their own transphobia. The same way it took time to learn it, it will take time to get over it, but I'm sure you'll manage that eventually

[@vilagistene2939]

​@@cleo42So then all normal non-brain dead droid persons are transphobic? Transphobia starts with hating transgender people, not with refusing to use their pronouns or considering them male/female. Everyone has the right to decide who they think is a man and who is a woman. A brain dead droid who accepts another's reality instead of his own. As a liberal, I would tell a trans woman to refer to herself as she feels, but equally, to someone who thinks trans women are not women, I would say to refer to them as feys and ignore their feelings. Everyone should be loyal to themselves!!

[@vilagistene2939]

Because you're a pathetic mind-dead Nazi... and you're still surprised that Donald Trump won for you... You deserved it, but unfortunately he's also a climate denier and an animal hater, so it wasn't just the idiot Nazi who caused harm to Americans... You're incredibly pathetic with this childish sentimentality and with your disgusting collectivism! You are the same as Trump just in a different way!!

[@gg-ke1gp]

As someone who went through a “rebellious” phase by binge-watching anti-sjws and had my views moved to the moderate area (from growing up in a very liberal family) by Shapiro and crew, I really have to thank Contra for helping to inject some sanity and clarity back into my political views. I can say with certainty that if your goal is reaching and changing the views of moderates who were gullible and swept up by the anti-sjw wave that took over the internet, you’re doing a fantastic job!

[@Jamie-kg8ig]

I drank Jordan Peterson's Kool Aid for like a day, but thankfully I pulled back from his insanity. CP has really helped me swing back to the left, where I belong.

[@snek9353]

Evidenced by the fact that you are one of those gullible people?

[@Jamie-kg8ig]

@@snek9353 I mean I was. It was only for about a day though. I can tell you that I'm easily manipulated and JP did precisely that to me.

[@snek9353]

@@Jamie-kg8ig How, JP is an interesting and intense man, but I've never heard him say anything manipulative?

[@gg_rider]

JBP has some possibly horrible views and implications, and some possibly good and empowering views. Often, he's very "you be you" but opposed to "people changing the world". It does change tho, slowly and usually gently. Contra is pretty darn respectful the fact that people don't start in radical places, vs intentional misinterpretations.

[@TehJaytius]

The clip where he accidentally uses Laverne Cox’s preferred pronoun and then has to hastily correct himself is the clearest example of how this talk of biology isn’t an ignorant interpretation of science or a sincere belief on Ben’s part. It’s performative cruelty that he has to actively make himself engage in. That he seems to derive a kind of pleasure from it would be almost pitiable if he didn’t make so much money from it.

[@Raketemensch-fl3sv]

Yeah i don't know what to make of that, or one time milo yanopa-whatever proudly indicated that he was 'deliberately mis-gendering' some person. At times i can get that, if someone believes trans people are just delusional or attention-seeking or, i dunno, gross or whatever objection they might have, that they'd bristle at being pressured to use a different pronoun*. And that's unfortunate. But yeah, ben shapiro and the like don't strike me that way, i think your 'performative' is spot on. 'Cruelty' though, i don't know... it's just the assholery posing as bravery that's his brand and gets his audience off. Although even that crowder guy who shares shapiro's audience and politics will still actually be civil and call people by the right pronoun from what i've seen. And that's a pretty fucked up editorial standard for a publication in any case.

[@TehJaytius]

Raketemensch 00000 I don’t know how useful it is to debate the semantics, but to me “assholery” is the kind of behaviour that you’d find in a typical episode of House MD or Sherlock. Ben actively lies about marginalised groups of people to promote his ideology, gets well paid to do it and seems to enjoy being nasty to people. If that’s not cruelty to you then perhaps my bar for that label is lower than yours. But I don’t think it’s defensible behaviour either way. Even if we grant that the way he acts is just his “brand” and he’s not actually a bad person in his heart, that just means he’s a mendacious coward who’ll say things he doesn’t believe for a quick buck.

[@account2871]

Cruelty? No it's the refusal to feed a delusion, but even then of course he accidentally used the wrong pronoun, because HE LOOKS LIKE A GIRL. You know who looks like girls? GIRLS DO. Real women typically look like girls, so of course the pronoun has connection to biology

[@CP-ll6qg]

Account: You can argue that it's wrong for biological males to dress and act as women (I disagree, but you could argue it), but the idea that pronoun use actually naturally comes from biology is pretty clearly false in any practical sense. In fact, in actual scientific contexts, pronouns are very rarely used to identify biological sex. We use "male" and "female" in research, and if you started calling, say, ginkgo trees, "girls," you'd be in some trouble with your editor. Often, "it" is actually used instead of "she/he" in plant and animal studies because it feels so damn strange to call a tree "she" (though people certainly do sometimes) even if its biological sex is known. When he/she pronouns are used, though, that alone is not enough for science-you have to specify "male" or "female," even in human medical trials sometimes. The idea that pronouns as a language tool come from biological or genetic sex is pretty easy to disprove. This argument doesn't really say anything about whether trans people are "real," but it does say something about Shapiro's argument. This particular point is outright illogical-it comes from political goals and personal views about trans people, not from a truth about language use. Coming from someone who so prides logic and facts, it becomes laughable.

[@Frogthroat1]

I think in Ben's case he wants to believe this because of his religion. And he is absolutely within his rights to do so. His aversion to preferred pronouns is justified. Justified by his religion, that is. We, as a society, give extra leeway to religions. Bigotry, close mindness, discrimination and cruelty are all fine, as long as you do it in the name of religion. Just remember to say your particular god is just and loving and you can pick up your pitchforks and torches with a clear conscience. And as long as we, as a society, keep giving religions exemptions, we can't really say anything against religion based bigotry. We enable it after all.

[@JadeDRail]

I think if people can call their boats "she" they can handle calling a trans woman "she".

[@husband-of-chinggis]

THAT'S SO INCREDIBLE I CAN'T--

[@Zohairshanteer]

Depends how womanly she looks. If I meet someone new and they look manly to me yet they personally identify as a woman. I'd call them he,his Because that's what we're used to. Not because I'm transphobic.

[@rajapromige8237]

@@Zohairshanteer this is ironic, right?

[@rg-ed5fr]

Zuhair shantir My dude, do you use the same logic on ships?

[@JadeDRail]

@@Zohairshanteer Yeah we were socially conditioned to call people based on their physical appearance, but it's not hard to change the way you call someone when they straight up tell you what they want. There are cis women who look very masculine. Would you call them he/him if they asked you to use she/her? Probably not. It's almost like it's not about appearance.

[@genera1013]

"How do I explain to my ChIlDrEn?!" As someone who's parent came out to them at age 7, you explain it calmly and as simply as possible. What they said went roughly, Parent- "I feel like a woman on the inside" Little me- "So a boy on the outside, but really a girl?" Parent- "yes" Little me- "can't you fix it?" Parent- "It takes a lot of money" Little me- "Guess I'll get a job so your outside matches your inside" That's what I remember anyway. I didn't know the word transgender then, but I understood the concept.

[@tula1433]

Ummm adorable. Marry me.

[@commenter-mz5ov]

you're right. when people use this argument, they're underestimating children's intelligence. most likely, they know that they can explain it to kids, but they just don't want to, so they pretend it's impossible.

[@sonorasgirl]

That and kids are learning about the world, and because everything is so new and not cemented into dumb rock yet, they are often more able to be flexible in their category ideas than adults

[@animposter4971]

That's really wholesome

[@LeGoodMusica23]

I was like 10 when I first saw an ftm person on the news and my only thoughts were "ewww he's a boy now"

[@madpoetsociety2917]

I actually kind of feel sorry for Shapiro's daughter. I was raised in a really weird way by my stereotypical militaristic, misogynist dad. When I acted girly (I am a cis woman) he would often patronize me (or just outright abuse me) but when I acted more masculine in order to please him (because that's what I do. I just want to be liked by everyone all the time.) his initial reaction would be approval until it hit him that I was still biologically female and then he accused me of being a lesbian (more than once). The point is, I guess, dads who are vehemently gender normative or who have veiled, misogynistic attitudes (like my dad) really are hell to live with. No matter what you do, you're still a just bitch. Needless to say, we don't speak anymore.

[@BlackSheepNara]

Mad Poet Society omfg same. All of it. Same. I'm sorry things were like that.

[@Blutzen]

Hey, you don't know me and I don't know you, but I'm sorry your dad is an asshole and I hope you have a good day.

[@Shinkada]

Their subconscious end goal is to train you to act like a woman but also train you to accept abuse and marginalization while doing so. I'm sorry you had to go through that.

[@thorsten8790]

I grew up in a traditional family and thrived meanwhile one girl i knew cut herself regurlarly because of her alcohol adddiction that she got because her parents wanted her to explore herself. Traditional gender roles Work for most people

[@TheEwqua]

Mad Poet Society Very much same. When you act girly, you're treated as inferior. When you act manly, you're told that you're not supposed to do that. As if you're supposed to act like the inferior human breed you apparently are.

[@midnightsg]

A little personal but oh well I gotta write this... I just wanted to thank you for these videos. I'm a basic AF cis mom living in the deep south - still stuck in the 1950s. I was one of those 'southern liberals,' blissfully ignorant but thinking they are being super progressive. A year ago I didn't even know what cis meant until I stumbled on your videos. (KZbin recommended you after a Lindsay Ellis video.) It is so weird to describe, but, as deep and avant-garde you present your videos to be... you also lay everything out so.damn.well! You've really opened my eyes to horrible things I didn't even know were horrible. At first, I felt so ashamed of realizing there is this whole group of people I've never recognized and possibly offended. I almost started pulling away like people often do, but the presentation of your videos really keep me hooked and engaged with learning more. I guess I just wanted to thank you, as cheesy as it sounds, for all the work and effort you've dumped into these long video essays. I know how rare it is to change someone's opinion on the internet... while I still have a long way to go, I gotta admit, you really have opened my eyes. Also, like... did you make that hat? Because holy shit.

[@darrishawks6033]

Soon you'll join a Marxist-Leninist party and be calling for the overthrow of the bourgeoisie

[@Tremulantone]

Hell Yeah Dude @@darrishawks6033

[@lubu2960]

@@darrishawks6033 you can join too, dont be shy

[@su2471]

aw thanks @midnightsg for writing this--it made my night!

[@darrishawks6033]

@@lubu2960 I'm already in a marxist-leninist party lol PSL

[@starrr365]

"I look inside myself and ask, 'do I feel like a man or a woman?' And the answer is still after all these years, that I feel like shit." That's a gargantuan mood right there

[@edithsjoberg4643]

Contra: I am a woman in identity and in expression I am a mess Me, a cis woman: Same

[@sandroselladore3506]

me, a gender non conforming person: i am a mess

[@giasharie274]

Basically me when I saw that part

[@anascarlet]

Good. Being perfectly feminine is not realistic.

[@dean7301]

O great Ben Shapiro, please end the decades long German debate over the grammatical gender of Nutella and tell us the karyotype of this sweetened hazelnut coca spread

[@curtmacquarrie]

its full of nuts so its gotta be male. I have spoken.

[@MrCmon113]

Das Nutella. Die Butter.

[@jmns9595]

Here in Brazil we call it "A Nutella", "a" being the feminine article

[@dean7301]

@@jmns9595 That's cool, thank you for your input! As far as I understand the way the name came to be was the (italian) inventor using the english word "nut" and adding the italian diminutive suffix -ella, so it's interesting to see that carries over to Brazil :)

[@lavenderhuman]

Die Nutella Only valid answer

[@CJ-nv6ju]

It's funny how Ben Shapiro realized he almost argued against himself when going from the adoptive parent example back to the dinner example. He says there's a difference between the biological fact of being a parent and then the social role of 'parent' which adoptive parents can fulfill. Next he says there's the biological fact of Blaire having been born male, but just before saying she fills the role of being a woman he stutters a bit and chooses instead to say Blaire is a man who looks like a woman. I guess he'll have to change his catchphrase to "facts don't care about your feelings, *they only care about mine.*"

[@phoenixdavida8987]

lol

[@lilacrain3283]

You should watch Some More News’ video on our boy Benjamin. He goes deep into that and does the best job I’ve seen of breaking down the flaws of Ben’s positions and arguments

[@curtmacquarrie]

His argument during that piece became "yes, it would clearly be more useful and expedient to just call you a woman, but then how would you know I don't respect you?"

[@user-ub9mm4vr5k]

Blaire said in one of her videos that she interacted with Ben in real life and that he called her by she/her pronouns. I think Ben would call trans people by their preferred pronouns, but he has a conservative audience, which he’d lose if he admitted that it is possible to use preferred pronouns for trans people.

[@lazyperfectionist3978]

@@user-ub9mm4vr5k That's honestly pretty sad. I mean I don't feel sorry for him specifically, but it is sad that his audience are the kinds of people who'd lynch his career if he showed an ounce of respect publically

[@reignfire77]

shapiro's feelings doesn't care about your facts

[@lentilbonanza4163]

Radical

[@ryanthomas9306]

CP doesnt have facts, just feelings

[@ryanthomas9306]

@Here to comment/watch weird stuff . I actually do watch CPs stuff. Ever since he was a normal boy on the blaire interview or w.e., it's really interesting to see his alter ego. Heres my problem, he interchangeably uses transsexual and transgender, but it's clear which he is. At the end, he states his identity is based on societal support. For example, he gets said desired positive reinforcement from the environment (which is nurtured).

[@ryanthomas9306]

@Here to comment/watch weird stuff positive reinforcement is directly related to attention and feelings.... what are you talking about

[@ryanthomas9306]

@Here to comment/watch weird stuff ... just talking from a social standpoint, ignore gender/biology and all the bull shit. Instead replace those with social cliques at school aka demographically. Say cheerleader (erin) wants to be referred to as shaniqua, all of her friends cater to it and call her that "nickname". Why would I care about her nick name or the feelings of those who "feel" she should be called said nick name.

[@in_99]

I always wonder what pronouns Ben Shapiro would refer to an intersexed person as since he’s so concerned about pronouns and chromosomes

[@leobigelow7021]

Shapiro isn't the one with a solid half-hour, produced video on the topic.

[@tm02-s03]

@@leobigelow7021 yet here you are, watching it💀

[@in_99]

@@leobigelow7021 Natalie would probably refer to them by whatever pronouns they preferred. This comment doesn’t even make any sense 😂

[@in_99]

@@beachwasher6140 intersex is a term used to describe people who’s anatomy doesn’t fit the binary of male or female. Even if they are assigned a legal sex, according to Ben Shapiro that doesn’t matter because the only thing that defines male and female is sexual anatomy and chromosomes. According to his logic, intersex people are by definition neither male or female. This obviously doesn’t even account for gender identity and natural variation in humans.

[@suzbone]

Ben would freak out and privately refer to an intersex person as "it"

[@reeceball]

“How do I explain to my child?!” I’m a transman and in my experience kids always understand much better than adults, not to mention they don’t care.

[@SilverishKitten]

Which is why it bothers me when .... trans folks... or people in general are ready to jump like hyenas on people who were raised differently and therefore already have pre-existing definitions for pronouns. Just because you want the pronoun usage to change, doesnt mean you get to try to make people feel like shit for needing time to get it. Yes children are pliable. It's not really a good thing. It makes it easier for you to influence them yes... But if we remained that pliable even as adults, there would be no stability. Because you're not the only one influencing.

[@kaingates]

Mr S but then they’re grown up and understand that life isn’t as simple as you knew when you were six. I don’t see the problem but I see you jumping to a conclusion.

[@robinb.2745]

Exactly. The world is full of weird and confusing things. Kids are faced with new and unfamiliar concepts on an almost daily basis. The idea that somehow transgender people are a concept just too foreign and alien for young minds to digest is silly. If a kid is old enough to understand that a Caterpillar turns into a Butterfly, but they are still the same animal, then they are old enough to understand binary transgender people. NB identities might be a little harder, but also easily doable.

[@kaingates]

SilverishKitten I agree but I also you paint with a pretty wide brush. In my experience when I misgendered someone what I got is “ooooh, I’d prefer she or her” and I’m like “oh shit, sorry my dude. I’ll try to remember that” and that’s it. Yeah people are more vicious online but that could be said by any group of any interest. I.e. don’t like that a Jewish mother wanted to kick out their neighbor? Dox her and send death threats to her personal phone. Don’t like a guy who’s advocating conservative values? Group up and riot an entire town until the event is cancelled.

[@skycendre257]

@Mr S I really can't see how "unlimited" genders can affect society in a bad way. I tried to think of the possible scenarios but nothing terrible comes to mind. Care to elaborate?

[@juno6624]

Ben sharpiro: "Pronouns are biological." Me, looking around at the candle thats "a she" in my first language, sitting at the table thats "a he", biting into the toast that can be "a it or a he" depending on who you ask and grabbing the chocolate hazelnut spread that has long sparked a joking discussion in my whole country because some use call it "a he" or "a she" or "an it": "What?"

[@m4rsival]

German?

[@RemixedVoice]

It's almost as if Ben has a narrow worldview

[@ChrisLitzenberg]

Der Toast. Das Nutella. No discussions damnit!

[@crash-ry3eq]

Ben is so self centered which is why he can only think about the English language when making an argumemt. No need to make his head hurt.

[@ChrisLitzenberg]

@hugo zubiria Well, in German "the girl" is called "das Mädchen". "Das" ist the pronoun for "it". So a girl is an "it", while a boy is a "he"...a young, unmarried women would "das Fräulein", so also an "it"...once she is older and married she would be called "die Frau", so she suddenly becomes a "she"...unless you want to disparage her by calling her "das Weib" which is pretty instulting by today's standards.

[@HoneyGlzedHam]

I never really understood trans people, let alone people that are non binary. A few years ago, Im not proud to admit that I might have even suggested that they needed help. Let me tell you, your channel is a godsend for people like me that didn't want to be hostile to the trans community, but didn't really understand it either. Thank you!

[@DirectorWestfield]

HoneyGlzedHam I was on that same bus too not too long ago. I didn’t “get it” (whatever that meant) and I was letting my personal discomfort get in the way of simply being sympathetic and empathetic to another marginalized group. Natalie’s channel certainly helped a lot in transforming my backwards feelings.

[@anarchatv]

tbf we do need help, just not the kind you used to think.

[@ConceptHut]

Sadly this channel is NOT very valid in the informational department. :/

[@flagermusen]

They still need help.

[@ConceptHut]

@Andrew Sinsioco - Your question illustrates you don't actually want an answer. You could just go look at the top level comments I've made though. Saying I subscribe to Jordan Peterson is a bad way to go. To say I wholly subscribe to his views is also an insane statement to make.

[@karmasauce2323]

"Otherwise I will throw you in imaginary Canadian pronoun jail." As a Canadian I find this particularly amusing considering our official second language is French and that language (among others) has the audacity to assign genders to inanimate objects.

[@darkstar2874]

As someone with Québécois heritage who’s anglophone I’m still not fully over that time at my family reunion where I said “le table” and it became a running joke. That said if I can survive misgendering a table other people can survive having to correct themselves when they misgender a *person.*

[@sandroselladore3506]

"has the audacity" XD

[@labistellaire3983]

I can proudly claim That i have the femininity of an axe!

[@tortis6342]

@@labistellaire3983 That just randomly reminded me of that one OKGO lyric where he sings: "She's got a body like a battleaxe."

[@labistellaire3983]

@@tortis6342 transition goals

[@pauljohnson7548]

"You know, you don't become a woman the first time you put on a dress. You become a woman the first time an older female relative turns to you at a restaurant and says, 'You know, maybe you should order the salad, sweetie.'" I'm not a woman, but that is a brilliant observation and I believe it.

[@skyrasmus4760]

I fucking died at that.

[@user-qv2qf1jk5o]

I thought I was a cis woman, but it turns out I gotta find a judgy older female relative and get her in a restaurant asap

[@IamMissPronounced]

@@vids595 yes all women need an older female relative who body shames them. That's what we all need

[@elperry7733]

@@idkdk569 Nice false dilemma there. Or maybe you could just mind your business and not comment on what people order, as well as not make medical judgements about how much people should exercise based on as little info as what they're eating for one meal out. Do you always express your concern for the health of everyone you see eating processed sugar, imbibing large amounts of drugs, or spending the day on the couch, or does this imperative just apply to people who don't make your dick happy?

[@idkdk569]

@@elperry7733 after thinking about my comments for a while, i realized i was in the wrong, i apologize have a nice day

[@xPoemi]

I have a feeling that a discussion like this could only happen in a place, where a language like english is spoken. You couldn't make the same argument as Ben Shapiro (that pronouns are linked to chromosomes) in the German or French language for example, where female and male pronouns are assinged to objects at random. In German a bus is male, a candle is female and so on. His arguments would make NO SENSE in those languages. Edit: Grammar

[@eykyra]

I am Spanish and his argument sounds completely stupid to me, but not only because we assign gender to inanimate objects, but because he fails at sustaining that in a natural conversation. No one goes around asking people about their chromosomes to use pronouns, we automatically assume them. So his determination of not using for trans people the pronouns of their identified gender is impossible to successfully commit to, as he may find trans women he would automatically refer to as she, unless they say they are trans. So my point is even if your native language is English, the use of pronouns it's pretty obvious if you think a little. We designate something with a particular word according to how we perceive that something, so his use of pronouns, despite what he says, would depend not on the chromosomes but on how much the person in particular looks like a woman or a man. So it clearly shows up that he's not actually talking about pronouns and what they refer to, but defending the idea that if you are a trans woman then you are really a man, and vice versa. We have people who defend the same idea here (despite ourgrammar being different gender-wise), maybe they would not say something as absurd as "pronouns depend on chromosomes", but there are people who say "Oh, you know that (insert trans celebrity) is really a man?". So no, his reasoning is not justified by nor related to the particular use of gender in English language, it's just bigotry. He's just refusing to accept the fact that trans people exist by insisting they really are the gender they were assigned at birth.

[@aablanco48]

@@eykyra I'm also an Spanish speaker and the conversation about gender identity/pronoms and the heated reaction on either side are somewhat difficult for me to relate. In Spanish our entire language it's binary (He, She) from people, objects, actions and even emotions; so gender neutrality it's really not something that can be considered as easily as in English. Yet even with all that it's very clear for me that Shapiro's bigotry has absolutely nothing to do with "Facts" or linguistics or word's and their meaning and use; and more with erasing a group identity and experience.

[@jamiel6005]

It’s almost like his arguments about language are a cover for hating trans people /s 😂

[@andreas4137]

What makes this especially funny is that English only has gendered pronouns as leftovers from being a Germanic language in the first place. English just for whatever reason got rid of its grammatical noun class system everywhere else in its morphology but its pronouns (Some other languages like Afrikaans did the same thing). Many languages (Finnish for example) just have a generic agender 3rd person singular pronoun, no equivalent to he or she. (Note: this doesn't magically make people that speak a language like this more progressive or something, it's just interesting how things we place such importance on may not always have direct equivalents in other languages.)

[@fluffyllama4073]

I agree. I live in the Philippines and our pronouns are actually gender-neutral so when I found out about how important pronouns are actually, I noticed that conversation is much more important for English-speaking countries.

[@dangreen3868]

"chromosomes determine pronouns" wait a minute, has Ben ever gotten his chromosomes checked? I sure haven't. How does he even know random stranger's chromosomes?

[@dangreen3868]

@@baristaz8834 there are people who have all the physical characteristics of male or female anatomy but the opposite chromosomes. You have no way of knowing. Especially not with strangers you've never met.

[@dangreen3868]

@@baristaz8834 then just, don't assume people's sex? It's not really important. If you're not someone's doctor you don't need to know unless they decide to tell you. I know a lot of people who you just wouldn't know their sex by looking at them. Just don't assume.

[@dangreen3868]

@@baristaz8834 no it's not. The only thing you really need to know is what name and pronouns someone goes by. You can, and I'd say should, ask someone about those. The rest doesn't really matter in most circumstances unless they choose to tell you.

[@dangreen3868]

@@baristaz8834 they don't assume your sex. They assume your gender, and assume the two are the same. You can assume someone's pronouns without assuming someone's sex. I'm not saying never assume someone's pronouns ever, I'm saying that assuming someone's sex isn't a necessary part of social interactions.

[@NoahsUniverse]

@@baristaz8834 Or maybe you're just salty?

[@chrisjackson6149]

The "how do I explain this to my child" argument never made any sense to me. How do you explain to your children that at some point their parents will die? How do you explain to your children that they could die in a school shooting and they have to reharse and hold drills to prepare for such event? How do you explain to your children how sex works? Just because something is difficult to understand doesn't mean your child should be unaware of it. Learning about death did more to my psyche than realizing transgender people exist ever could, and yet they're things children simply have to learn at some point.

[@IAmNumber4000]

Ikr. Also there is an intense laziness to the whole thing. Keeping your child locked in Plato’s cave because you’re too lazy/dumb to explain things to them 😂

[@vilagistene2939]

He is a normal parent, he never talks to his child about sexuality and most children would not allow this to their parents. Most kids would probably slap their parents right away if they even started talking about such a topic. Transgender is different, but I think most kids don't care and it's not a problem.

[@mantistoboggan1503]

​@@vilagistene2939 explaining the birds and the bees to your children is so commonplace that we have multiple specific phrases for it in common parlance. Also like all schools have some kind of sex education program (as woeful as a lot of them can be) because it's, yknow, important.

[@lorisschirar6680]

Not to mention that there is a non zero chance that your child turns up being transgender / non-binary themselves, and hence would benefit from already having at least heard of the topic. Communicating your own acceptance of trans people early on can help them be more comfortable with it so they don’t stay in the closet and struggle with dysphoria / depression and so on when growing up. The very outdated rhetoric of « what if representation turns my children gay* » is harmful in more ways than one imo.

[@gio_ordanno4380]

As a Brazilian trans man, seeing the "fascistas não passarão" at the end made me tear up and then realize just how much this will hurt like an open wound for the next 4 years (at least). Thanks for reminding me that no, this will not go unnoticed and that yeah, we are still here and have some work to do so let's go get shit done ps: you're my leftist Dark Mother and my soul has forever been changed by your rhetoric style + a e s t h e t i c s combo, amen

[@bigbluefrog]

I'm so sorry about that farce of an election. I really thought Haddad would win. I think yours might be more scary than the orange baby-man we have here (US). Any way... I hope you and your fellow Brazilians will get through the next 4 years safe and with some rain forest left. anywho.. much love to you and be well.

[@meloyelo2840]

boa sorte amigo. no final, eles não vão vencer.

[@xvenacavax]

ISIS Member i bet you’d be more charming if you didn’t use your fingers to type rude things 😘

[@CECItheMATOS]

I am Brazilian as well :) Let’s take a moment of silence for the election of Bolsonaro... Dear God...

[@Tm0g762]

Stay safe brother

[@MaevieTheSongbird]

“ I am a woman in identity, and in expression I a m a m e s s “ Holy cow that is a mood

[@stargazing_hedgehog]

I just address everyone with the gender free pronoun Comrade

[@TinkerToneworks]

captain is better

[@dylanchouinard6141]

Reginald Höfnerspoon “Your Excellency” is best!

[@TinkerToneworks]

@@dylanchouinard6141 fuck you, captain

[@remingtomi8212]

'Mortal' is my go-to gender free pronoun

[@dylanchouinard6141]

Reginald Höfnerspoon well that was uncalled for, Your Excellency!

[@theredshirts7245]

There is something that has yet to change my mind on this topic: Ben Shapiro was born as crying baby. And he still presents as one.

[@mad_8321]

PREACH 😭🤚

[@Iamhere829]

Ayooo 🤣🤣

[@harburmills1783]

Trans woman absolutely demolishes conservative snowflake

[@diegosanchez894]

Not. enough. CAPS!

[@angelbarajas9180]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/lXKoeYukg9V1e7c

[@MLBlue30]

@Thomas Heath and you are wasting your time here, why?

[@nerveagent1905]

@Thomas Heath good for you, I guess?

[@cottage-core_]

Conservative destroyed with sociology and facts

[@NosebleeddeGroselha]

"Look at that blonde girl over there" "Blonde? Where?" "The one with green hair" "Then why didn't you say 'green-haired girl' or something?" "Cause that is not her natural hair color" "Well I know it's pretty obvious but there is nothing blonde about her hair now." "Facts don't care about her dry ends. Blondie." EDIT: heeey this blew up unexpectedly lol So I’ve seen a few people in the comments who didn’t understand the use of this analogy so I decided to go a little further: First of all, this is just a joke for funsies. I would never say something like this if I was in a debate with Mr. Shapiro over there. And second of all, this analogy just applies to the situation of someone insisting on misgendering a trans person, usually binary, who passes, ending up confusing the people around them. If you point to a woman in the crowd and refer to her as a man, the other party won’t know who you’re talking about and you’ll just look stupid and petty. This is not a situation that can be applied to non-binary trans people or binary trans people who “don’t pass”, such as my own, because the misgendering happens in a different way in this case. By the way, my pronouns are he/him, if any of you need to refer to me in the replies. I wish all of you a very nice day and leave a friendly reminder for you to drink water and not skip your meals 💕

[@jmiddleton7518]

Don’t forget eyes, and people who need contacts to see may have contacts that change their eye color. You’d say their eye color is that of what the contact changed it to, but you can’t call a person with XX chromosomes a boy? Kinda confused.

[@NosebleeddeGroselha]

Taichi Fujisaki exactly. In the end it goes down to referring to anyone as being naked because they weren’t born with clothes.

[@epicman4208]

@Ali Arafat The person you replied to was making fun of transphobes, not being transphobic. They're implying that the whole situation they wrote is stupid, and that trans people should be called whatever pronouns they identify with.

[@NosebleeddeGroselha]

​@Ali Arafat ................ I'm a trans man.

[@NosebleeddeGroselha]

@Ali Arafat i was making a joke please don't yell at me i'm already sad enough these days 😢

[@mileshill8773]

I am non-binary and use they/them pronouns and I shared this video with my family today to help them better understand me. My 70 year old aunt was really moved by it and wrote me a really thoughtful response. Thank you so much for all the work you put into your videos. They make a huge difference. Your videos make me hopeful ❤️

[@haggisa]

MC Hill Awwww. Go aunt!

[@localvenus_chic]

I’m happy for you. Your aunt is really cool.

[@mikuenjoyerXD]

Thats amazing! I would be terrified to show ContraPoints to my family because i know i would be judged and i know they wouldn't watch the whole video

[@beautyofcinema374]

Aww, that's so wholesome.

[@regalsteel7074]

You are not non binary. You are man or woman.

[@shaniatreyu9303]

My 3yo niece: "Why is auntie an uncle now?" Me: "Because your auntie wanted to be a boy so he's uncle now." Niece: "Oh, ok."

[@brendan904]

Yeah because that's how it works

[@suzbone]

@@brendan904 that *is* how it works, actually, and you're just going to have to get over it.

[@danny98432]

Literally one of the easiest conversations to have with a young child I stg

[@falcon_arkaig]

​@@brendan904 My child cousin understood perfectly that I was a boy now (I'm ftm), she had no problem understanding when she was 5-6 years old. It's not confusing to toddlers, it's only confusing to close minded people

[@sealogic4552]

@@falcon_arkaig it’s only confusing specifically to people who choose to be confused

[@datfisheboi6519]

I had a trans friend in kindergarten. My mom told me that she was something called transgender, and that she was a girl now. None of us kids gave a crap, and we started calling her she, albiet forgetting sometimes. It wasn't that hard to understand.

[@maivaiva1412]

you must have been psychologically traumatized by the experience! how did you ever survive without turning trans?? what an immoral mother, putting you in that horrific situation, i am so sorry!!! (humongous sarcasm alert.)

[@kudosbudo]

Every story involving kids i hear is " they don't worry about it and get on with it" when it comes to race, gender. They honestly don't care.

[@roadkill348]

Dat Fishe Boi Yup! Same! She's almost fully transitioned now and she goes by Arabella :) sorry old comment but just wanted to share.

[@shadowboxing7029]

My 12 year old daughter has a friend at school who has been considering transitioning, she told me this as a matter of fact without any judgement etc. It lightened my heart to hear it, their circle has all been supportive. I can't imagine something like that taking place when I was a kid, no one would have felt safe enough to come forward and discuss it. It gives me hope for our future generations. That is if they have a planet that can sustain them by then.

[@quinnd115]

Dat Fishe Boi that’s great

[@GehennaGirls]

Ben Shapiro's feelings don't care about facts

[@MrCholoPants3415]

>graduated from UCLA with highest possible honors in less than 3 years >graduated from Harvard law right after with Cum-Laude (highest honor possible) in less than 3 years >speaks at campuses around the country and destroys everyone he debates, even when he's being an asshat with his shitty trad-con nonsense >140-160 IQ minimum >Is slowly allowing himself to shed the skin of an overly religious and biased Jew because he's open minded What were you saying again..? Just because he presents facts and statistics that disagree with your own biased and unsubstantiated beliefs doesn't mean he's caught up in his feelings. In fact, the only people caught up in their feelings in this thread are you and I. I don't want to be lumped in with the likes of you though, so I'll just say Shapiro is magnitudes sharper than anyone here, period... At least I'm distancing myself from you by being in a group of currently 400,000 people on this video.

[@tsarzamancorpdna]

Bennys feels < reals

[@DrakenWolfwood]

@@MrCholoPants3415 lmao did you not watch the Contra video?

[@fun_ghoul]

@@MrCholoPants3415 _">speaks at campuses around the country..."_ How is that possible? I thought those had all been overrun with Marxists since the 1920s...

[@MrCholoPants3415]

​ @Traditional European Him needing $600k worth of security and having riots at many of the events wouldn't really support the moronic point that you're so subtly alluding to.

[@nayara4120]

AS A BRAZILIAN WOMAN, I lost my shit when I saw the "fascistas não passarão" message. Good God. To think you took time of your life to care about something most brazilians pretend not to see is amazing. Hope you continue the good quality and keep up the fight (even though it can be very tiresome, I realize). Thank you for today's silver lining.

[@Diego.Mattos.]

We shall be the Resistance. Despite the dread, and the mourning, we MUST fight. Seremos a Resistência. Apesar do temor e do luto, LUTAMOS.

[@DebbieGarciaa]

Como mulher brasileira também, resistiremos juntas!

[@TheJuliana0901]

Eu também! Tem mulher mais woke que a Natalie? Hshahau 😊

[@zz4927]

Linda demais

[@arturyeon]

Como homem/degenerado alemão, eu espero que vocês ficam salvo e continuam a resistência. É um tempo triste pelo Brasil e o mundo inteiro. Estamos organizando projetos de solidaridade aqui em Hamburgo. FASCISTAS NÃO PASSARÃO.

[@alejandramoreno6625]

"a dude explaining philosophy 101", that's a true female experience. As a doctor in genetics, I've gotten random dudes try to explain genetics to me.

[@katrinam6795]

I had this discussion with a bro culture friend of mine. Apparently, some men like starting discussutions on topics with experts to see how well they hold up compared to the expert. And the job of the Experte is to either correct them and add more stuff they dont know

[@amamuffin]

Mansplaining

[@Valentina.Montano]

​@@amamuffin are we women so dumbass that we never explain nothing to men and try to make them understand? 🤦

[@sealogic4552]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@katrinam6795I’ll say as the man who’s been both the guy looking to test his knowledge against the expert AND the guy who just likes to explain stuff, you can usually tell which one you’re talking to using context clues. The former will talk to get you talking, and the latter will talk to get you to shut up and listen. It’s a weird impulse that seems to exist far more in men than women for whatever reason, but it makes us feel smart and validated in a way that kinda comes from a place of insecurity, and naturally gets real toxic when misogyny is a factor.

[@ewi6779]

in my native language i would call a book "a she", a table "a he", a chair "an it" etc. could ben shapiro explain how to check my computer's karyotype to be sure it is indeed a he??

[@notrod5341]

Even in English we call ships "she".

[@seretonindealer9440]

Suddenly, my book has an XY I wasn't made aware of. brilliant

[@ryanthomas9306]

My dumbass neighbor calls his car sheila / her. Does that mean I have to ?

[@attilabalint5776]

My native language doesn't have gender-specific pronouns at all.

[@CDexie]

@@ryanthomas9306 This comment is dismissing the notion that "biology is the nature of pronouns".

[@mathiasjrs2878]

This changed my view on trans pronouns. I was down the anti-sjw rabbit hole and this helped a lot

[@Taquinqua]

Hey, hope you're being serious. I was never "anti sjw" but Natalie has definitely helped me better understand things I had previously only agreed with out of the "it's fine to do what you want if you don't hurt anyone and I don't want to be rude" principal. She's intelligent and inquisitive in a way that I connect with

[@agentdoodo299]

@@Taquinqua Yeah same. Exactly the same tbh

[@scb-z9u]

welcome! we've been waiting for you

[@idontlikeyouyo]

Obviously cause you're a sponge.

[@aritaylor6351]

@Sargons wife's black daughter sheneqwa of akkad oof. whats up your butt? why are you so mad lmao how are trans women affecting you?

[@shannonbananan8520]

Ben Shapiro literally made my mom transphobic so god bless this video

[@comradefreedom8275]

I'm so sorry that happened to your mom.

[@andrewnovak1390]

rip

[@rg-ed5fr]

Shannon-igans - goddamn it i hate that little violin playing goblin

[@r1b3y38]

"What am I supposed to tell my children?!" Kids are born open minded and curious; it's us as adults that slowly close it for them.

[@tshred666]

Idek when I first learned about trans people as a little kid I was initially disgusted and confused, despite being trans myself.

[@geisterbilder]

but that disgust and confusion is a great first step towards understanding vs. encountering trans identities later in life and experiencing that unresolved disgust towards fellow adults

[@edot2824]

​@@tshred666same here, I suppose it is because some children assimilate gender roles and stereotypes faster than others and for that reason they initially refuse the notion that those "rules" can be broken, at least that happened to me (I came out as a trans girl last year and it was one of the best things I ever did :3)

[@corableh8662]

I once dated a man who idolized Ben Shapiro, dropping that shit was the best decision I ever made

[@hisslamb5378]

Ben Shapiro should idolize me, and so should your ex and you.

[@corableh8662]

DolphinsWIthIgloos didn’t drop him because of that but go off lmao you don’t know shit about shit so don’t act like you do

[@Izzrules]

Proud of u

[@kudosbudo]

Why do people idolize opinion people? You know, those people who get famous for an opinion. Its not an achievment. I don't get it.

[@corableh8662]

kudosbudo I really don’t get it either. They’re just people and he genuinely had a weird obsession with the man.

[@DebbieGarciaa]

Natalie, thank you so much for the "fascistas não passarão" message at the end. Really, thank you. Much love from Brazil, shall we resist together.

[@michaelflattery2298]

Solidarity from Ireland. We're watching, we're worried, we're here to help.

[@danranone]

Debbie, my wife and I feel the same way. We watched the end scene twice. We shall resist together. We will not be erased.

[@DarDarBinks1986]

Take up arms and overthrow your government, then start over from scratch with permanent leftism.

[@iwontgiveyoumyinformation8895]

bolsonaro shocked me more than trump. i can't even imagine how it feels for you. i hope that you get out of this nightmare and that the worst can be prevented

[@Carols989]

another brazilian who loves contrapoints

[@VanityEgo]

One thing that always baffles me about criticism of the singular they is how it blatantly ignores the fact that "you" is both singular and plural, and poses no issue whatsoever.

[@allie2549]

And singular "you" even went through a similar process of acceptance as singular "they" is going through today! public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/

[@evansageser6943]

To be fair, in my unironic opinion one of the best contributions to language that the South has made was the introduction of y'all and all y'all as plural forms of you. The south may not be on the forefront of culture and progress, but y'all is useful as hell as a linguistic distinction and its a damn shame that its considered "uncultured" by so many language snobs, even if "you" can be applied in both functions. Maybe the solution is to designate they as the singular and introduce a plural "Th'all"? Probably not but it's an interesting thought.

[@ryanthomas9306]

They can be used to identity a singular entity, it's just a vague entity. Just how you can identity a vague plural entity. It literally isnt difficult to understand

[@wolf1066]

Singular "they"/"them" dates back to the 14th - long before we stopped using the singular-informal forms of second-person pronoun ("thee" and "thou"), which were still current in the late 16th/early 17th centuries when Shakespeare wrote his plays, and started universally using the plural/formal form ("you") regardless of the number and/or social status of the person(s) to whom you were talking. Singular "they"/"them" only came under fire as "incorrect usage" in the late 19th Century - so the next time someone calls you out for using "they"/"them" to refer to a single person just say "piss off with your newfangled language-usage you fucking Victorian twat!"

[@ryanthomas9306]

@@wolf1066 they them for singular pronouns is fucking stupid. Also suicide doesnt reducecpost trans for ftm, so I'm not seeing why I should give in to ones disorder

[@BLAAACKsheeepy]

ContraPoints DESTROYS conservative snowflake ben shapiro in EPIC video essay

[@joelbedulla4]

Part 69

[@gingertwerk472]

Very underrated comment

[@LowCountryMatt]

Mommy Feelings destroys 'Daddy' 'Logic'

[@Valentina.Montano]

I don't think conservatives will agree because they use their own logic.

[@ThreeArrows]

Its really something how everyone just quietly ignored that the Bill C16 stuff turned out to be a giant hoax.

[@Luisito45ful]

Exactly. I mentioned this a few people at a meetup when I met Natalie in Boston a couple of months ago. By the way love your channel!!! :)

[@nonemo138]

Hey Drei pfeile! I binge watched your videos today. You're easily one of the most educational channels around. Big ups!

[@AlexMaskill]

When pushed Peterson would always immediately start conflating the non-prison punishment for the C16 updates with the potentially prison-y punishment he'd face for Contempt of Court in not complying with the punishment for the C16 violations, and I never saw him called on this sudden massive goalpost-shifting or its consequent implications.

[@brewmastermonk9356]

Or the powers-that-be in Canada know that they got called out on their stupid shit and are waiting for the public to forget about JBP.

[@snek9353]

That's an illogical argument. There's no way to know what would have come of Bill C16 had Jordan Peterson not made it an issue. The law did have consequences written into it. There's no reason not to think it would have been enforced. It could be just as easily argued that Jordan effectively negated the bill with his resistance and that had he not resisted there would have been actions taken by now. In fact the Lindsay Shepard scandal nearly proves the later point true.

[@IamMissPronounced]

"Hi I'm Ben Shapiro" "Oh hi Benny" "Um actually its just Ben" "Well you look like a Benny to me so I'm calling you that lol" "Okay but that name feels infantilizing and personally degrading and I don't feel comfortable being addressed by that name" "Facts don't care about your feelings Benny, this is my freedom of speech"

[@sardonicsardonyx359]

Does he actually not like being called Benny?

[@GamePath]

This entire conversation is made up... Oh so transgenders are just playing make believe. I was confused.

[@sardonicsardonyx359]

@@GamePath That's not what I was saying.

[@GamePath]

@@sardonicsardonyx359 Oh so benny is a nickname... nicknames are made up. So trangenders are completely made up also. Thanks! Got it.

[@tomcotter4299]

Calling someone named Ben “Benny” is not the same as forcing people to deny biological realities. A more appropriate analogy would be if someone said their preferred pronoun was “Climate Change is a myth” and reprimanded you and called you phobic every time you protested using their preferred pronoun. Your analogy sucks and only works on this uncritical audience.

[@dylanchouinard6141]

Not only is Ben incorrect in a general cultural sense, but he is also incorrect about gender in the context of Judaism. Jewish culture never based gender on biology, it based gender on legal obligation. Jewish law recognizes six genders: Zachar and Nekevah (men and women, respectively, who can have children), Saris and Ay’lonit (men and women, respectively, who cannot or will not have children. Usually referring to infertile women and men who have been castrated, but the description of Saris Hamah (born eunuchs) used by the Babylonian Rabbi Akiva could have referred to an effeminate gay man), Androgynous (people born with both male and female physical sexual characteristics), and finally Tumtum, people who’s gender is hidden or otherwise can’t be determined. Edit: it should also be known that many trans Jews have taken the terms Saris and Ay’lonit to describe themselves as a way to decolonize their gender identity

[@jmiddleton7518]

For someone who talks about how he’s Jewish and that his wife is a doctor every five minutes he certainly doesn’t know a lot of about Judaism and science.

[@AntonAdelson]

Whoa, unexpected Halacha lesson is very much welcome!

[@GuiSmith]

Taichi Fujisaki I mean, he’s not the doctor, so why would he? I doubt he even knows the idea of osmosis, let alone can apply it metaphorically to his knowledge of language, psychology, or science as a whole.

[@Itri_Vega]

This is the guy who thinks women don't get wet during sexual intercourse, too...

[@mdc47]

@@Itri_Vega oh no, really? Did he actually? lol

[@Cat-tastrophee]

I work with kids and a lot of what I do is explaining neurodivergence to neurotypical classmates. Kids are very accepting if you explain things in terms they can understand. It's adults who are the problem.

[@vilagistene2939]

Yes, children are easily brainwashed. Are you really that surprised?

[@dlisetteb]

Pronouns are also respect. If someone ask you to call them as a she or as a he why the hell would you do the opposite on purpose??

[@inkheart01]

Ikr just respect ppl it’s not hard.

[@psychinteresting727]

That’s EXACTLY how I explain it to some people!! It’s just respect! You don’t turn to someone who says their name is Randy and say “ok mike nice to meet you” like??? WHAT

[@cherrycola6736]

Because a lot of people think that it makes them look like a big smart intellectual. It's... Really fucking pathetic tbh

[@lordbuss]

For the same reason, for example, that people dislike actually showing respect in Japanese. Because it's another complicated thing you should do to be seen as respectful (though obviously, Japanese is far harder than pronouns). That's still mostly a factor of people thinking everything new is weird because they never think about familiar things, but from an "objective" outside perspective it's just the problem of human society and the fact you need to do things to be seen as respectful. You know how cool would it be if you didn't need to show respect in any (active) way, and people wouldn't be insulted, because they don't know they are supposed to be insulted? That's obviously impossible without a very long (couple centuries at least) social evolution, but essentially that is the idea people express (sometimes without knowing it) when they choose to not show respect in a new way they do not consider obvious and familiar.

[@baristaz8834]

For others it's like doing it is agreeing with the ppl from the community and their ideologies. Personally, I don't mind using he/she pronouns for anyone. But I'm not using they/them or any other kind, cuz it's weird for me to use that with a single person and I've never learnt of any other official pronouns so.

[@placeholder6092]

The funny thing is, when someone insists that pronouns are supposed to correspond to chromosomes, I've never ever seen them whip out a piece of paper from when they themselves were karyotyped in order to back up their point. It's almost as though they're just *assuming* what their own and others' chromosomal makeup is based on outward appearance. So basically they're using pronouns based on which gender they FEEL someone looks like, and trying to claim that they're being strictly logical and scientific.

[@stephaniel2850]

Yeeep! And I find the chromosomes argument especially ridiculous as a cis woman who happens to know for a fact I don't have the standard XX karyotype - I have Turner Syndrome, which means I just have the one X and that's it. Not to claim whatsoever that I've had anything like a trans experience, but I am infertile and have to take estrogen, and yet, funny thing, no one has ever once tried to argue I'm "not a real woman" because of it ;) Not that it's any less wrong for someone to make the argument based on genitalia either, but when their first thing is chromosomes, I'm like... hello, cis woman here who you can prove you wrong by my very existence! (As can plenty of other cis people with unique chromosomal makeups)

[@sorryifoldcomment8596]

Exactly! Ben talks about everything that makes me biologically female, but he literally can't see any of it....and he especially can't see my chromosomes. I don't even know my own chromosomes. Once humans started wearing clothes over every biological part, the gig was up. We only have our eyes and our brains. I just know that Ben Shapiro believes that every person he's ever recognized as "biologically female" has XY chromosomes. I mean, he can't admit when he's wrong. Ever. But it's inevitable that he's not realized a trans-woman was not cis-gender. At some point.

[@kiralonely]

Not to mention, adding onto the comments above me, there are trans people who have the chromosomes of their gender identity, but the body of another sex. There are trans women with XX chromosomes. So is he gonna start only using the correct pronouns for them? Or trans men with XY chromosomes? What pronouns would he use for X0 people, or XXY, or XXX? Like, honey, you're so so so off track with that middle school logic, jeez.

[@sydneygraham1470]

Ben's gonna have an identity crisis when he realizes he can't even "prove" his own gender with "facts" lmao

[@kayneassasin]

Firstly humans can tell what you are by looking with probably a 99% level of accuracy. Secondly, it's called the exception that proves the rule, just because there are humans that for whatever reason lack a leg, doesn't mean they are no longer human. So just because your chromosomal make up might be abnormal doesn't mean the rule doesn't apply to the other 99% of humans. Humans 99% of the time have either XX for female or XY for male. Furthermore, the argument isn't being made about exceptions, it's being made about people who fall within the rule of XX or XY and suddenly saying, nah I am the opposite or I am something completely new and made up with some random unknown ever changing definition and spectrum. And lastly it's not based on what I FEEL you look like, it's based on what I see. Do you have breasts and a curvy behind? Do you have a thinner body structure such as shoulders aren't as broad and a more narrow face? Odds are you are a female. Do you have an adam's apple? Broad shoulders? Rounder face? A bulge in the private parts? Bigger muscles? Odds are you my friend are a male. I didn't see you based how I feel, I saw you based on what I saw. There are other physical features too that are distinctive, voice is different, women bald differently, facial hair, etc.

[@Mexie]

sadness and dysfunction for all!

[@Sheridan2LT]

no u babe

[@meowchinchilla4009]

Mexie im a potato

[@kitwhitfield7169]

From each dysfunction according to their ability; to each sadness according to their needs.

[@ryanthomas9306]

@Subete lol this persons perspective on history is incorrect. People got married due to lineage and to transfer dowelries. The most important reason why women joined the work force wasnt due to equal pay, but in ww2 we lost much of our labor, so women joined the work force. It wasnt until the 1970s that equal pay started coming into play. Analyze the female black demographic. Nothing political changed, but single motherhood increased from 25 to 75 percent in 8 years... this didnt have anything to due with men, but the structure of our society AGAIN. You really need to learn history because you seem deluded

[@ryanthomas9306]

@ThisIsMyRealName lol your statement is so fucking pathetic

[@TheAyaktaiseyenkiz]

Sometimes I'm just happy I'm a Turkish speaker. The language has no pronouns, no gender, no tools to express someone or somethings gender. I live in Germany, trying to use German as well as possible in my daily life but even after so many years i still struggle with coping with the insane and arbitration grammar of genders. Turkish is - at least in this respect - so much simpler.

[@cordulam]

My irish boyfriend tried to learn German and said about our pronouns:"They' are there to sort out intruders!" There are in fact no logical rules to them, children just learn them by imitation.

[@tortis6342]

I’m a native English speaker, but I learned Spanish when I was pretty young. I don’t speak it much any more, but yeah, learning a gendered language like that when you’re young makes it SO much easier to pick up other languages with a heavy reliance on gender

[@LarthV]

@@cordulam I think there are, but they are very convoluted and only accessible to linguists - so you'd need like five years of extensive study to understand it. And imitation just works much _much_ faster🙂

[@AnEdgyWeeb]

Natalie Wynn DESTROYS Ben Shapiro with FACTS and LOGIC!

[@flask223]

@Aromko Komondor no u

[@ericrundgren4711]

lol, your channel makes you look 10

[@ericrundgren4711]

Lola Montez If you actually have Natalie a fair chance and watched some of her videos, you would have heard of Ben Shapiro. If you had actually watched THIS VIDEO, you would have known. So stop talking about shit that you have no idea about

[@pheonixrises11]

Lola Montez trans man is ftm either say trans woman or man by itself so as to not be confusing. although, thank you for the mtf clarification. or create a conspiracy that Natalie was a female who transitioned to be a man and dresses as a trans woman on the internet for conspiracy reasons

[@rg-ed5fr]

Lola Montez - Question: Why would you go out of your way to refer to Natalie as “Mr. Wynn,” when legally Natalie is her name? Just seems like more effort?? Even Shapiro says that it is ok to reffer to someone as their legal name!? Oh wait, I think I get it now!! You were going out of your way to refer to her with a masculine personal title!!! Ahaha 😂 classic Lola!! Lola’s always purposely misgendering someone as a way to undermine them as a person, even when they know little about the topics they’re insulting them on!! Wow Lola you really are a star!! 🤩 😳 😯 🌟 💯

[@kaitlynbrady3017]

Fact: Trans people exist in the world, Ben. I have seen several videos of you speaking to them. Facts don't care about your daughter's feelings.

[@RyanStorey1231]

I really wish I knew how to argue against the "HOW DO I EXPLAIN THIS TO MY CHILD?!" crowd.

[@Jamie-kg8ig]

@@RyanStorey1231 I'd tell them that it's just something you tell your kid when they get old enough to understand. Of course you don't try to explain it to a 4 year old. It'd be like trying to explain sex to one. They can't get it yet so you tell them when they're more mature and can handle it.

[@TheSongwritingCat]

@@RyanStorey1231 Maybe if you aren't equipped to explain things to your child, you shouldn't be a parent. Or you should at least teach them to read a little more quickly so they can learn about things for themselves.

[@pandaking9000]

Jamie Ryan Storey “it’s not hard, children are very open to these things. Normalizing these ideas at a young age leads to a more unified society. It’s basically /hey these people exist and they’re the same as anyone else/ end of story. Children have enough of a relative sense of self to recognize themselves in such a description. If they do see themselves in it don’t run away from that. You should help them explore it, with knowledgeable help, so they end up with a greater sense of self trans or not.” That’s how I’d do it at least

[@KookiesNolly]

Jamthis i know a transgender girl who has a little brother, he’s 6 years old. To him she’s his sister, even though she’s not done transitioning. It’s just part of his « normal ». If you show positive and simple representations of the LGBTQ community to kids when they are young, it will just be part of the idea of normalcy and when they are older they won’t treat the community as something weird. They will be apathetic to it, it will feel natural to them that they exist. Waiting years to introduce kids to that concept as if it was particular damaging or dangerous only runs the risk of them being reactionary to the idea because it will feel « abnormal ». Homophobes don’t usually spend their lives surrounded by free happy gay people, they didn’t get a positive or neutral image of gay people when they were kids. They either inherited their community’s bigotry or constructed one when they got old (it’s usually a little bit of both). Don’t be afraid to tell your kids about the LGBTQ community and if they ask you « why are they like that? » just tell them « because that’s just how the world is, people are just different and the world is beautiful that way. ». (That’s what my mom told me when I asked her why white people had a fair skin when I saw one in real life for the first time).

[@PrinceJackTheFirst]

I love the adoptive parent analogy. I'm going to start using it when I have to explain why trans women are women and trans men are men.

[@zacpier]

Shocked that that came from Blaire White, of all people.

[@nathanshlap]

@@zacpier Blair White makes all her arguments out of self interest, and her making a correct one was although beneficial, but self interested

[@Snuzzled]

@@nickwarrior5 well, apparently it didn't change everyone's minds. 🤷‍♂️

[@matiasneptuniano2127]

@@nickwarrior5 hey, i know you are to dumb to get it, but i recomend to you at least watch the video if you want to come and troll this comment section only because is a channel from a transwoman

[@matiasneptuniano2127]

@@nickwarrior5 you are literally repeating arguments you saw working when other people used them, you could be build using the google autofill thing

[@narayanirivera2230]

I am a cis gender woman and I used to be misgendered because I shaved my head. It is so funny to me that people argue that pronouns are biological when some people called me a "he" because of my hairstyle.

[@ad8447]

Thats an honest mistake. Its not the same as people screeming at you for "misgendering" them.

[@ad8447]

Here is the question. Did you scream at them for misgendering you?? Thats the difference

[@narayanirivera2230]

@@ad8447 I felt a little embarrassed but I didn't yell at them because they weren't trying to hurt or offend me. I have a lot of experience dealing with bullies to tell the difference, but I wouldn't blame trans people for snap out at people who refuse to recognize them for who they are.

[@EvelinaNinudottir]

Nothing wrong with accidentally misgendering someone. Continuing to do so, however, is another story. @@ad8447

[@robertfaucher3750]

​@@ad8447 Okay but you do realize people only scream when they are repeated harassed, by the same people over and over and over again.

[@adrienneLusk]

"Because an adoptive parent is, socially and functionally, just as real a parent as a biological parent."

[@connorp3030]

Adrienne Lusk but you know what a key difference is, is if someone refused to refer to an adoptive parent as a real parent, they wouldn't be bullied by financial and legal consequences until they changed their way of thinking.

[@shmuels1383]

@@connorp3030 but a person from the side that keeps harassing the parents about it and calls for their child to be seperated from them might

[@michaelavanessian8558]

@@connorp3030 That's not what Bill C16 actually did, but you tried, I guess.

[@SonofSethoitae]

@@connorp3030 I'm guessing you're not Canadian, and therefore have never actually read the Canadian Human Rights Act, and don't know what actually constitutes a "discriminatory practice".

[@connorp3030]

Michael Avanessian wasn't talking about Bill c16 but you tried I guess

[@ragagard1984]

“When someone adopts a child you still call them a parent, regardless of biology” “Well yeah but it’s going to depend on context, for example if they visit a doctor they would clarify they are adoptive parents” Why can’t you apply this same logic to “woman” and “trans woman” instead of “parent” and “adoptive parent”. From society’s standpoint in most contexts except very specific ones you are a parent, much like how if you look like a woman, from society’s standpoint you are a woman. Blaire actually almost caught Ben but then got caught up in the anti-SJW “we’re so civil” circlejerk, which is ironic since Ben goes on and on about how “facts don’t care about your feelings”

[@taterpoot1]

store clerk- "what kind of wig are you looking for?" contrapoints- "space fruit rollups..."

[@machturtlepresents]

Lisa Frank's third trimester abortion.

[@davidneiman7393]

@@machturtlepresents Daaaaaayyyuuuummmmm...

[@machturtlepresents]

@@davidneiman7393 But, like, in a good way.

[@bratatouille]

Pool noodle chic

[@k.ebartlett1830]

No, those are like, a specific sour candy here in the US, but I forget the name. They look exactly like that but they have a dusting of whatever the sour dust they put on candy is. They're gummy strips that come in little plastic packages wrapped in cellophane. Someone else please remind what they're called

[@tarafixit9579]

I just found your channel. My child told me very recently that they are exploring the idea that they're NB or Trans, i am very happy to find positive confident voice for good on this platform. I look forward to learning how strong members of trans community look at the world and what is wanted from the people in this world. Thanks for educating me bit by hit so i can be the right type of mom as my kid walks his journey.

[@AndrosProtos]

What a horrid parent.

[@pinkmidi6553]

@@AndrosProtos "I love and support my child" = horrible parent to you? I bet your parents are great people just like you...

[@adambousfield6802]

You prob won't see this because this comment is old, but I seriously admire you for this, it means so much to your child

[@ur-local-lesbian-comrade]

just wanted to let you know how much it means to have supportive parents. not all of us are so lucky so thank you for loving your child regardless of whatever they identity as.

[@weirdcreature9928]

I wish you were my parent. I sent them resources myself and they haven't looked at any of it. I'm glad that some parents are making the effort of trying to understand out of their own volition

[@Jaruco2102]

my legs are spread and my mind is open

[@teh7634]

jaylon conner are they spread at a 270 degree angle or more?

[@zednott688]

HUGE fucken mood!

[@Jaruco2102]

Teh oh honey you know i got that acute angle..... 69°

[@ryanthomas9306]

Let me guess, confused gay guy hitting on contrapoints... Typical

[@duckietheduck]

"I'll call Katlyn Jenner Katlyn Jenner but I won't call Katlyn Jenner a she." so... you're okay with calling someone you consider to still be a man a female name they weren't assigned at birth.. but different pronouns are just a big fat nope?? you know you can legally change your gender marker on official documents such as licenses, prescriptions, etc, the same way you can legally change your name right?

[@duckietheduck]

@GuiltyUntillProvenSober yes but... Katlyn is a woman name, for women, like how "she" is the pronoun for women. If Ben does not believe Katlyn is a woman he should not be calling her Katlyn because that's a woman's name :/

[@aryore2411]

@GuiltyUntillProvenSober the biological reality is that ships have XX chromosomes

[@ryanthomas9306]

@@duckietheduck so because Kaitlyn is primarily a womans name, this person should officially be called a she. My name is gender neutral but you sont see people calling me it

[@duckietheduck]

@@ryanthomas9306 uh no, just pointing out the hypocrisy 🙄

[@nerveagent1905]

@@ryanthomas9306 Ryan isn't gender neutral

[@daneboe]

I got your back. I'll fight like hell to make sure you get to be miserable and dysfunctional like everyone else! 😂❤️

[@kajipup7550]

Dane Boe same here partner

[@hekatebleble4800]

And you have an avatar to prove it! ;D

[@xereeto]

The Annoying Orange guy watches Contrapoints? Top 10 unexpected anime crossovers

[@merrittanimation7721]

Yes! We must fight for the day where all people's misery is created equal!

[@Tallon28819]

Knife

[@Boahemaa]

“Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal.” ― Albert Camus

[@Papupi2pi]

As an adopted child, the adoption metaphor is particularly compelling. I've been supportive of trans pronouns anyway, but I think this argument might convince me if I wasn't already convinced. Maybe I'll try it with my conservative parents if the subject of trans people comes up.

[@BroadConcept]

Wow this is extremely convincing! Honestly I was of the Ben Shapiro mindset (albeit willing to use the pronouns that the person who I was speaking to preferred), but this video was a great way to open my mind on how words are just sounds and we can ascribe the meaning to them that we want. It's not like we are calling the engine in a car a brake pad, which would be a serious detriment to Western society. I understand we are just calling people by how they would like to be referred which is both practical and compassionate.

[@alphabetstreams]

A+ Fernando. A+ A+ A+. (I'm a professor, so these A+s are valuable).

[@futureblot5704]

Thank you for keeping an open mind. A lot of us get mad cause of constant mistreatment from people like Ben who are unwilling to keep an open mind, so we just don’t trust that easily that anyone using their arguments is actually open to listen. We prioritize putting our energy into ways for us to survive in a world that pushes us out of our families and jobs, so knowing that people like you are keeping your mind and heart open is very, very, very heartwarming. Thank you.

[@OhsoWoobie]

Same

[@BrushedPencil]

Wow i’m so glad you were open minded to changing your viewpoint! Not many people have the ability nor confidence to admit they were wrong. Good on you.

[@billylucius7288]

SO how about History and Joan of Arc "The Maid of Orléans"- is this wrong.

[@spoodlebug]

Admittedly, I view my adoptive parents as glorified kidnappers.

[@ConceptHut]

No officer, I'm not stealing this car, I'm it's undocumented owner.

[@bentn13]

this made me burst out laughing xD

[@RockZombieIAm]

Were you taken away or could your biological parents not support you? Do you like your adoptive parents? I never heard this view point from someone who was adopted and I want to adopt multiple kids so I'm legit curious

[@0w8wsj7w]

@@RockZombieIAm same, adopt with me

[@islandofideals6571]

How do you make a kid feel not this cuz I wanna adopt

[@shethewriter]

Pronouns are not biological phenomena. They’re words.

[@---yl4mf]

Correct. And who gets to decide how words are used/what they mean?

[@lazar190]

@@---yl4mf the speakers of the language

[@---yl4mf]

@@lazar190 Good answer. That means that both those who want 6000 genders and those who deny trans-hood get a voice. Which is fair, but makes things complicated.

[@lazar190]

@@---yl4mf Sadly yes but the respect to others is what allows us to comform a society. Anyways, the life is so complicated

[@stargazng]

they are words that already have definitions. you cant bs something made a long time ago into your own description

[@AraujoDaisuki]

The "I'M IN A NEW RELATIONSHIP NOW, WITH A LESBIAN!" hits different now

[@allergictoalliteration6033]

Context?

[@timothymclean]

@@allergictoalliteration6033 kzbin.info/www/bejne/gWi6p3uKocSEbas TL;DW: Natalie Wynn came out as a lesbian.

[@annalassila4634]

So, I'm Finnish, and just like Contra said, there are no gendered pronouns in our language. I grew up referring to everyone by the same pronoun, but I couldn't do that in English speaking context, because it wouldn't make sense to English speakers and would just offend and confuse them. Just like if someone speaking Finnish tried to refer to men and women by different pronouns would not make any sense, because different pronouns for men and women don't even exist. Language is based on social contracts, not biology. This dude either doesn't know how languages work or he's a bigot who wholly well knows what he does doesn't make sense but does it anyway. I'm guessing it's the latter.

[@Reejuya]

I'm German. We gender everything. And actually often enough differently than some other languages do it. In German the Moon is male and the Sun is female while in a lot of languages it is the opposite. Maybe we should find out their chromosomes to find out who's right...

[@RudeDemon694]

@@valeriavagapova Many times I've found, its specific to yes, pagan gods, but also the environment. Usually goddesses were considered life-bringing and gods considered more life destroying, so thusly if the region is hotter, the sun would be masculine and the moon feminine in response to how harsh the environment was during those times of day. in opposing, in colder climates (such as Germany and Scandinavia) the moon became masculine and the sun feminine. This is not always true, also it probably has more to do with the originator of the faith, since if say your faith is changed due to war/colonialization/conversion, you may take on the affectation of another region. Also very dependent on culture (Were they more warlike, what were their concepts of violence and death) and cultural ideals of gender and roles. Also is the moon feminine but the concept of night masculine? Such that the moon is the only lifegiving source of the night? I find this stuff fascinating.

[@XenaBe25]

Shapiro's just a bigot. If I ever meet him, Imma rename him Shorty. Cuz Facts don't care about his Feelings :D

[@eve36368]

why not both?

[@kielomariamaja8334]

@Anna Lassila Hello, also from Finland! In written Finnish we use one pronoun "hän" which refers to all kinds of people (and sometimes to pets) - but in spoken Finnish, at least here in the capital region we just use "se", which is "it", for everything, people, animals and inanimate objects alike. I volunteer in a pet rescue organization and while I understand very well why affectionate people adoring their pets want to use "hän" in spoken Finnish it always sounds a bit, well, clumsy. Oh, and in my opinion, this Ben Shapiro character is a loudmouthed bigot who clearly does not know how biology or genome even works. I intend to ignor him in the future and focus on divine Natalie and this fine channel.

[@JamesOKeefe-US]

Speaking as an old hetero married white dude, this content is amazing. I am still confused as all get out about some of the terms but I walk away from each one of these videos better informed and more understanding so thank you for helping me be better and understand this community more compassionately and intelligently.

[@Fern_Tull]

I'm so glad there are older people that are trying to learn about our community Nico (he/they)

[@afrogonaleaf]

honestly it's people like you who give me hope for the world

[@metatron6066]

Respect dude!

[@Irritandarts]

We sure as heel all speak like that, old hetero married white dudes !+ Especially when They is drunk, than it puts she in me !

[@lilwaffleiron7845]

Speaking as a "woke" 17 year old girl I am also still confused as all get out about some of these terms, at the end of the day we don't always have to understand every term so long as we understand the humanity in every single person and treat everyone with respect ❤️

[@Acid0Dreamz]

I actually love the conversation with Blair. She basically forces him to make the point for her. You definitely gotta give Blair points for this. She did a good job.

[@fresharche6227]

Natalie left her flat??? she really gave it all for this video

[@richardwilliams877]

We can only hope she was completely intoxicated :D :D

[@watermellie]

John Maclean is ethereal and deserves a special deity pronoun.

[@XenaBe25]

I don't follow makeup channels, so this was the first I'd heard of MacLean. When Natalie said he prefers to be called "he" I assumed he was a transman bc he looks so good. Damn. I'm still confused. And amazed. Dude is a drag queen? He looks better than I *ever* looked, even in my early 20s when I was smokin hot.

[@nelsonth]

@@XenaBe25 he doesn't call it drag, which is anyway usually something that is akin to performance. He seems to present himself like that all the time. He says he just expresses himself in a way that is stereotypically understood as feminine by society. I am not a makeup person myself and many of his subscribers watch him for his quaint turn of phrase, seemingly extensive vocabulary, soothing tone and manner and dry sense of humor. Of course his makeup is renowned for its ... SEAMLESSNESS.

[@XenaBe25]

@@nelsonth I watched a little of his stuff. He calls himself a god :D

[@Discordia5]

@@XenaBe25 John enjoys feminine fashion, but feels comfortable as a male. He is like a posh Jeffree Star.

[@Simsrockslol]

john maclean- sama

[@SJNaka101]

Trans woman FILLS Ben Shapiro with her THICK, GIRTHY LOGIC I just wanna say this is some of the most well produced content on all of KZbin. Ignoring all the content, what you're left with is good acting, good lighting, good editing, good costumes... Just really solid across the board.

[@robbyloux]

NOW THIS IS EPIC. This type of content is why KZbin is killing Cable TV, FUCK YOU REPTILES

[@metallsnubben]

Actually chuckled at this comment. Now to resume normal scheduled sadness and dysfunctionality

[@aftertaster]

“It is not me who misunderstands biology; it is you who misunderstands language.” I’m getting that tattooed on my stomach.

[@MiaRosenbloom]

I have a feeling that when most parents say...... "How do I explain this to my children?" What they really mean is... How can I explain to my children that it's against my morals, without the rest of the world telling me I'm teaching my children how to be a bigot? The answer is, you can't.

[@atlas8827]

probably because they are bigots

[@JohnJillky]

It's like, this video is 30 minutes. Children are exposed to stuff for years before leaving their parent's household lol. You literally barely need to try to explain this. They just don't want to

[@pillbobaggins2766]

kids are surprisingly accepting, i've explained my being asexual to kids just saying "well some people like boys, some people like girls, some people like both, some people are not boys or girls, some people aren't interested in any of the above" and they didn't bat an eye about it. they literally do not give a FUCK that i'm a girl who doesn't want to go out with either boys or girls or... anyone. unless they're being earbashed about how LGBT+ people are all literally hitler by their parents, kids do not care. it's such a ridiculous argument!

[@bettycharms]

Pillbo Baggins as usual , water is wet , wind is windy , and hatred is learned.

[@MrJimbokerns]

the issue is, how do they explain something that they don't understand. it's not inherently bigotry. maybe, it is ignorance. maybe, they shouldn't be the ones to explain. maybe contrapoints or others of her ilk should

[@vainpiers]

I think if gay people had been explained to me neutrally I think I could have had less self hatred towards myself. I only heard gay people referred to in a negative way by my friends as a 10 year old who’d just started feeling sexual attraction. I hate the whole “protect the children” stance, educate the goddamn children

[@sophiaruizuvalle2523]

Yeah, we should protect the children, the little 10 year old girl that has a crush on Hannah Montana instead of the Jonas brothers, the 12 year old boy who looked out of car window at two men holding hands, wishing to be like them someday, right up until his father called them "fucking f**s"

[@sophiaruizuvalle2523]

Im only talking about sexuality cause I dont have anecdotal stories of trans people when they were kids feeling left out

[@Jamie-kg8ig]

I think I'm going to have to explain that to my five year old cousin. Like I'm a trans woman(just came out to myself today!) and I'm pre-literally everything besides coming out to myself and I have no clue how I'm gonna explain it to him. Unless within the space of a month I can somehow get femme enough to not get misgendered by a five year old.

[@nikibronson133]

Dang

[@Jamie-kg8ig]

@@nikibronson133 Came out to my mom and she said that explaining to him would be a waste of time, so I won't.

[@TinyPirate]

Heck. That Blair White analogy is actually pretty useful.

[@ZoeAlleyne]

I read this as Blair Witch. I was confused.

[@joycelinlgbtq]

If you watch Olly's (Philosophy Tube) latest video - then that might well be the case. (Because we deviate from the norm.) Also, damn. Why did Blaire White have to be right about something? Doesn't make her right about everything else i suppose.

[@lovedeluxe2154]

If you say enough things, probability says that eventually you will say something that is correct even if most of what comes out of your mouth is an avalanche of shit. Does not undo the mountain of shit.

[@OmotolaALawal]

it is the correct Analogy.

[@MissAshley42]

Assuming you're talking to anyone other than Ben Shapiro, yeah, that does seem useful.

[@SP3CTR0L1T3]

I relate so deeply to not wanting people to use my correct pronouns out of mere politeness, but because they intuitively recognise me as the gender I am. Sadly, as a non-binary person, I am aware that I can't ever "pass" as the gender I want to be seen as. How can I telegraph that I'm agender to a society that by-and-large doesn't even know what that *is*? The best-case scenario for me is that they see me as the "opposite" as the gender I was assigned at birth, maybe.

[@billyrussell7789]

i guess the way i see it it’s changing in my school yeah, there’s actually a fair few out enbys (myself included) expressing and identifying with the expected variability… a fair few teachers and the vast majority of students use they/they for us. there’s two that i met that i genuinely couldn’t pick their assigned gender at birth, without them telling me, so i’ve always seen them both, not as more-non-binary (whatever that means), but “passing” as enby, and i sun tilly using they/them so ur family might not see you as you are, but i think that general perception is changing (at least in some places)

[@LucyBscalE]

Transgender SENDS BEN SHAPIRO TO THE ABYSS

[@Orestpol]

Don't forget the facts and logic

[@musk547]

Ben"facts don't care about your feelings unless it's on religion and history"Shapiro.

[@dapeach06]

Or actual science. Or language

[@tonijelecevic4332]

Or Israel

[@shadysheep1984]

because those are philosophical and not trying to push any kind of agenda

[@sbastianbrilyanto4722]

Well, being fair, religion is not necessarily about facts, although he tries to be as objective as possible. And as someone who watches his videos, he knows his history to a degree.

[@scoreunder]

I wonder if Ben refers to young male cartoon characters as "she", due to them often having female voice actors.

[@m.ivyluna4632]

scoreunder goku is a girl :p

[@rw-gh2gg]

Miss Bart Simpson lol

[@kkaassist]

VoicelessMusic Butch Hartman, the author of Fairly-Odd Parents is super transphobic which makes it kinda weird in the context

[@ifuckedyourdad8984]

.... it’s literally a show.. WhAt Do YoU mEaN

[@scoreunder]

@M Thomas Presumably it's a matter of the author's intent, but that's not always crystal clear.

[@Name-dl3uq]

The "pronouns are based on chromosomes" is such a weird concept to me, because pronouns were used way before chromosomes were even discovered. They were clearly not based on a person's chromosomes, but the perception and the interpretation of someone's presentation.

[@SlutForCynthia]

Bone structure and biological make up is clearly what determined how we assign pronouns. The whole:"You can't know someone's chromosomes." argument is intentionally taking what is being presented at face value without taking into consideration the actual factors that even make this sentence be uttered by an individual to begin with. Basically: X means this,Y means this,B means this,therefore: A is due to XYB. You could claim that everyone can read really well,but then someone could literally just mention dyslexic people who may not be able to inherently read well without practice. (Dyslexia might have not been a good example,but I'm sure you get the point. Additional point:Our mind basically determines gender by causing attraction towards the opposite sex,so we socially and biologically base gender off of appearance.)

[@sillyspider]

​@@SlutForCynthiaBut there's not even a set bone structure between sexes. Yeah, it can be used to help determine sex but it's not a reliable method at all. Plus, a lot of languages use gendered pronouns on objects, too.

[@sillyspider]

​@@SlutForCynthiaNot even to mention how common it actually is for cis peoples chromosomes to not match up with their sex. Someone could appear fully biologically male and spend their entire life as a cis man yet still have XX chromosomes. The same thing can be applied about cis women with XY chromosomes. Chromosomes aren't a surefire way to determine sex either.

[@vilagistene2939]

​@@sillyspiderIt's still better than defining it by feeling.

[@hippydisnerd]

​@@SlutForCynthialol no

[@steveharrison76]

BEN SHAPIRO SAW MY CHROMOSOME AND THEN EVERYONE APPLAUDED

[@davendeere9894]

its true, i was the chromosome.

[@steveharrison76]

Daven Deere: you splendid son of a gun...

[@bonthebunnycat667]

I SAW IT WITH MY 18 EYES

[@izdaica1]

It’s hilarious how uncomfortable Shapiro is when he can’t use his catch phrases and cocky smirk to piss people off and avoid actual discussion.

[@Ishaankaushal1]

Jacob Preston LMAO honestly

[@Darleer]

"Not just rude but also wrong" is probably a label that Ben should print out and stick on his his shirt

[@pinetrees8173]

This image made me laugh very hard thank you

[@AlexandreLaprise]

great merch idea

[@ccziv]

I love the way you think, Contra. When someone asks me my pronouns, I have no idea what to say. “They” doesn’t work for me. “Your Highness” might be ok, but it’s sounds *so* much better on you (than me). You’re definitely my philosopher-queen! xo

[@xJxUxLxZx]

“you become a woman as soon as an older female relative turns to you at a restaurant and says ‘maybe you should order the salad sweetie’” contra you absolute gem. I fall for you more and more with every video 💞

[@lemon93]

Ugh if only I had someone who did that before I hit the desert bar, well time to work it off

[@weirdwithwords]

Facts don't care about your feelings. Facts don't care, period (comma), because facts aren't people. Which begs the question, who is Ben Shapiro trying to appease? Facts? Give it up, Ben, they're just not into you.

[@Queer_Nerd_For_Human_Justice]

hehehehe

[@adhesiveghost2834]

Facts are not sentient: therefore they cannot care about anything. They’re a goddamn words and concepts. Benny boy is wrong.

[@themoustachelady2937]

the thing is his opinion on gender and sex is not even a fact at all

[@ryanthomas9306]

This is how transgenders try to use syntax to prove their point. They think sex and gender are interchangeable

[@Acsion42]

As a nb my pronouns are thou/thee/them. When addressing me thou shalt speaketh in the informal case.

[@wolf1066]

Thou'rt quite correct.

[@JennaLaFaerie]

I'm also NB, and I use any pronoun. I don't give a flying fuck.

[@henrynotsharinglastnameoni9668]

Acsion42 is it okay if I do this

[@moonlight_oats]

this. this is beautiful

[@googavo1d]

senpai also a good one =)