Planning an Urban Assault in an Actual Military Simulation

[@aclockworkcranberry]

This is the type of game I'd love in theory, but in practice I'd commit several war crimes and lose half my infantry to one IED.

[@ax23mgh8]

It ain't a war crime if you plant a weapon on dead person and say you were attacked.

[@mountplusBladeequals]

Lol, they neglected to include CivCas, so you won't accidentally commit any war crimes. But you'll absolutely get your boys greased by an IED (or several)

[@Euan_Miller43]

@@mountplusBladeequals you can kill POW's by ordering units to fire on their action tile

[@michaelray415]

@@Euan_Miller43 I've definitely seen them gun down POWs unprovoked... I think it might be a bug. Like my guys will enter a building where an enemy squad has surrendered, chill for a second, then one of the enemies becomes hostile again for some reason and gets lit up by the whole battalion. Good times

[@mountplusBladeequals]

@@Euan_Miller43 shhhh, that's not a war crime as long as nobody reports it

[@Ghost_Command04]

I was just thinking to myself yesterday about how I really wanted another Combat Mission video. Thanks for doing more of this. I know its a lot of effort and takes forever but Im just so interested in the big picture doctrine. Ive always been more of a CQC guy myself so its super interesting to see the alternative perspective

[@davidingbar846]

I want a Controlled Pairs vs Double Vision, Josie Wales, or Usually Hapless head to head showdown. Also, target light and target briefly are your friends. Combined with quick move/hunt it's the best way to do bounding movement I've found.

[@dv6000islame]

Yessss. Me wants this! That'd be epic. Though IMO, Controlled Pairs would be at a disadvantage as Usually Hapless an the others know the minute ins and outs of of Combat Mission mechanics: AI, spotting, arcs, armor arcs etc and CP is relatively new. But CP does have a solid grounding in modern battlefield tactics. It'd be interesting and I'd love to watch the AARs of both sides.

[@Archangel-pd1rn]

This content is awesome! Do some more of it!

[@Mister_Typo]

Watching a TOW get flung into a hot MG nest and seeing the fire just... Stop. 👌

[@brentedgerton9469]

Although you don't get as many views on this kind of video, it has been my favorite you're doing since DK2 has slowed down.

[@Spider-Too-Too]

im glad a famous war game youtuber like CPG is covering a hidden gem like this and brought more light to this community

[@lachlannossiter2842]

alright man, you've convinced me.. i'll buy it.. ;) i'm loving how you're articulating your thoughts with this game. it feels like i'm "levelling up" from your Door Kickers videos. you got me immersed in CQB tactics and doctrine, and to be able to explore the same sort of philosophies on a broader scale of battle is a lot of fun. thank you man.

[@grandmentos3956]

Love to see you playing this game, and your knowledge put on a larger scale, hope you keep with this Also, recommend Combat Mission Black Sea if you are looking to fight a more modern-equipped opponent

[@Stlaind]

Those APS equipped armor pieces are definitely fun.

[@bodkinrappallum6137]

cold war is a whole vibe too

[@AirSupportIncomimg]

Does Black Sea focuses on the US or the Ukraine?

[@grandmentos3956]

@@AirSupportIncomimg It focuses on the Ukrainian conflict in 2014 Alternate history ‘bout how the Russians went all-in and caused a US-backed Ukranian reaction

[@bodkinrappallum6137]

@@AirSupportIncomimg it focuses on a conflict where Russia invades Ukraine and the USA backs Ukraine So both

[@Someone-lr6gu]

Been waiting for this episode for a really long time! I always struggled with urban combat in this game.

[@michaelray415]

I think everyone struggles with it, including me. It's just a numbers game, you'll always take casualties unless you manage to wipe everything with CAS first.

[@Will-mj2lr]

Wide open, manoeuvre fighting in this game works great. Urban fighting in this game is an experience similar to getting punched in the dick. Mainly because your infantry are absolute potatoes and love taking bizarre, exposed routes to waypoints and enemy infantry inside structures are remarkably resistant to supressing fire. You can literally drop a 500lb bomb on an enemy building and find that half the squad inside has survived...

[@VynalDerp]

The reason for this is it approximates walls and doorways and rooms inside the building, as well as furniture and the like for extra cover. Not really intuitive but that's why they're so tanky.

[@Roman9441]

I love wide open fight but when come to urban it really night mare for this game. I mean it ok i know in urban fighting it hard. But well :/ There is no proper too or way to clear building normally want i do is shoot at building i'm try to clear to suppress it but not work if enemy infantry out side building and waiting :( haha so i play it since fist version still no idea how to clear the building with minimum lose. I mean first CMSF

[@lewisyeadon4046]

To be fair, urban combat is notorious for being a nightmare- there's a bazillion accounts going as far back as the British defending Antwerp in 1914 to modern day American brigades in Afghan and Iraqi towns dropping tonnes of ordnance on a building, "clearing" it, and then finding out twenty minutes later that the position is as effective as it was before. The best account that comes to mind of an IFP is from Eugene Sledge fighting on Peleliu- his mortar team set up in front of a bunker cleared with grenades, only to engage in a twenty minute gunfight against the defenders, finally finishing with a tank demolishing the walls and burning the defenders alive with flame throwers.

[@knotationmusic]

Happy Veteran’s Day, CPG.

[@Syndie702]

If you have a particular breach you want your troops to take, it can help to give them a move order to the side of the building adjacent that breach, and then into the building. So at 20 minutes in, you could order them to fast move behind the bradley and then quick move into the building. That said, they might have taken casualties from that RPG, and the building they wind up in isn't particularly bullet proof. Would love to do some PvP sometime, I'm not a fantastic player but I can react a little better than the AI.

[@fatdelinquent85]

In combat mission modules it is a good idea to pay very close attention to your vehicle way points. From a game mechanics point of view that is. If you move them up and you want them to execute a turn do describe a curve with multiple waypoints instead of just changing heading from one WP to another. With multiple WP the vehicle will follow the WP's in a more fluid motion there by faster. With the single point it'll stop, rotate, and start moving again. If you are already aware : nevermind me xD

[@noahyoung7276]

Big fan of combat mission myself. Love seeing all applied, learning a lot from your channel! Happened across DK2 vids and watched the 4 you have on CM. Looking forward to more! Take care

[@truthhertz10]

I'd love to see more of you playing Combat mission. Specially multiplayer! Subscribed.

[@jacobotstot2021]

Nice. Didn't think you would do one of these again after the views you got on the last ones. Very cool. Thank you :D

[@bobojangles22]

definitely recommend using the sound mods for this game. really changes the whole tone and can get insanely realistic at times when squads get lit up lol

[@simonliin]

Thx man. Yes! Definitely want to see more CM with real world tactics from you!

[@AirSupportIncomimg]

When you first did the CMSF2 video, I instantly fell in love with it. Glad to see it’s coming back!

[@graylarson2751]

Another Combat Mission video lets fucking go! Was wondering if we would see this again. Was kind of worried that the algorithm didn't like these videos. But I love em man!

[@akd8525]

Just to note: area targets on buildings are place per floor, including the roof level (this makes more sense when you are dealing with walled roofs). It seems you are placing all your area targets on the roofs of buildings. This will still get fire on the building, but will bias it toward the top and cause some to just sail right over. If you are wanting to target the first floor, you need to click on the wall of the building at the desired floor rather than the roof. You will see the red target line extending to the base of the floor targeted.

[@PiresArsenalLegend]

Really enjoying the pivot into CM. Interesting to see you try to extrapolate your DK2 tactics into platoon/ company level.

[@MrCABman1972]

There are allot of interesting talk about tactics, recon and how to manoeuvre which I find is pretty on target with how you should think. But at the same time you don't take advantage of the time given to you to secure the objective and provide enough fire suppression to conserve losses, I think this is a common problem that most people have playing Combat mission. Combat mission already pressure players with to little time on almost every mission to what you would need in real life... it is literally a crime not using the time in order to make sure you engage the enemy as efficient as possible... ;)

[@thewalkingdude8786]

The beginning of this video gave me flash backs to sitting around the terrain model listening to a 5 paragraph order from LT.

[@tiesankersmit6580]

I was waiting for another combat mission video, thank you!

[@tomkavulic7178]

26:56 that dudes got some balls

[@nathangun2261]

Always like your videos, as a Combat Mission player especially the CM ones. Unfortunate casualties near the police station and also the Bradly, I always try to keep an infantry screen in front of vehicles. Sometimes a risk must be taken especially when you need fire superiority quickly

[@zackcleasby2866]

8:46 "move in with the swiftness"....more like down with the sickness am I right fellas? 😂

[@danyael777]

I played Combat Missions very first title (can't remember the name) and absolutely played it to pieces with my cousin in hotseat mode. Best there is!

[@ДушманКакдела]

Check out Graviteam Tactics Operation Mius front.

[@SonicBoomDIYcom]

Same devs that created Achtung Panzer - I'm in :)

[@SmokeDog1871]

Well done, I've played this scenario so fucking extensively. Your left hook really wrong footed the AI in a way they usually dont react.

[@maddmike4472]

More please this game is cool as hell

[@dv6000islame]

Great video man! I love it when you play CM. I enjoy your explanation of tactics, your battle plan etc. I suspect that most of your users came to your channel probably from your Door Kickers 2 and FPS games, and just a general interest for tactical / CQB / firearms. I found it from the Combat Mission side. It's interesting to see those principles of assault coincide in both types of engagements, from the small four man teams in DK2 to platoon and larger engagements in CM. Keep it up! Your explanation of enfilade fires, grazing fire, elliptical zones reminded me of this excellent vid by Usually Hapless "Machinegun Theory" where he demonstrates those using Combat Mission. Other viewers might be interested in that as well: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYuch2ShqZqInqc Some thoughts to improve survivability of troops in CM. This is in reference to the turn where you took the enfilade fire and lost part of a squad and your Bradley: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oorSfoGVbqt3eqs As you've discovered, the TAC AI to pathfinding isn't the best, and it helps to babysit them to mitigate issues. For example, instead of clicking building to building with your infantry for a movement order, I recommend more frequent and distinct waypoints such as a waypoint directly outside the door you want the squad to exit from and right in front of the door you want them to enter etc. If you want them to stack up behind a wall for cover, put a way point there with a pause order, etc. It's still not going to be perfect, but I think you'll see improved results. Also, I recommend Quick move (yellow line) over Fast move (orange line) for infantry units. Fast move for infantry is a full out sprint with your weapons not really up and engaged. They will not return fire until they reach their way point. It's best used when used to get away from a bad situation--incoming arty, a tank coming around a corner, etc or to move into position quickly when the threat is very low. With a Quick move they'll return fire but will move more tactically IMO to their objective. In fact, a line of multiple Quick moves, interspersed with 5 to 10 second pause orders works best, IMO, since they'll stop, take a knee, survey the situation etc. Staggering squads that way, allows for improved leapfrogging where one is set and providing overwatch. Hanging your Bradleys out on the flanks without infantry support screening them is likely going to end poorly. Enemies could be prone in adjacent buildings etc. Sometimes you have to do it, but IMO, it's almost always best to keep a buffer of infantry around your vehicles on all sides that screen ahead to avoid those RPGs and hopefully those idiotic "aggressive" reverse maneuvers the TAC AI sometimes does kzbin.info/www/bejne/oorSfoGVbqt3eqs. :) Good stuff. More Combat Mission! :) I hope you do a full campaign with CMSF2 some time.

[@kadan_gustafson6609]

I know that you've talked a lot about how you think video games have the ability to be a great training tool for real battle, but what do you think about them being a training tool for tactical medicine? Managing casualties is a major part of warfare, but every tactical shooter I've played doesn't extend the care beyond sticking a syringe in somebody or putting on a bandage. Imagine playing a VR shooter where you have to identify where your teammate was shot and use different treatment accordingly such as applying a virtual tourniquet to a limb, wound packing gauze into somebody's shoulder, etc. There could possibly be some balance issues for that but it would be a cool concept.

[@crabbier8320]

ARMA 3's ACE mod includes a medical system that fits a lot of what you're suggesting, although much of the interaction boils down to clicking and waiting for progress to finish. Not detailed in the way you might be looking for. There is a blood pressure and bleeding system where you manage drugs, IVs, bandages and tourniquets. Different body parts can be wounded, wounds produce different degrees of pain and blood loss. They can lead to unconsciousness or cardiac arrest - a 5 min timer to stabilize and give them CPR. There's a super simplistic stitching and broken bone mechanic. It mostly changes the pace and forces you to slow down. Your casualties don't die right away (mostly) so there's no instant respawn and also no instant recovery.

[@kadan_gustafson6609]

@@crabbier8320 Interesting. In particular I think it would be cool for all those systems to be implemented into VR.

[@blackhammer5035]

Whoohoo, more CM2. Looking forward to watching this one.

[@DCGMatthew1]

Saw the thumbnail and knew it was Combat Mission.

[@sirfanatical8763]

10:20 are you a police officer or strategist? Kinda got me off guard when you mentioned that a guards army squad has "long guns". Also I really enjoyed the strategizing and the way you tried to work out where the enemy might be. I'd recommend you send infantry teams to scout ahead and enter building to take a look at areas where youre vehicles will go.

[@prez6282]

Underated channel

[@alexboyarko8286]

I love your IPB and step 4 tough process. The only thing I would emphasize on this specific game is OCOKA for OPFOR and BLUEFOR.

[@lioneaglegriffin]

Reminiscent of the town sieges in Rome Total war. I like it.

[@San-hs6tj]

Have you done PBEM? Would love to get a game going in SF2 or BS, doesn't have to be a balanced quick battle got a lot of scenarios. CW comes out on the 16th? with improved mp function instead of the 90s stuff we do now lol

[@ControlledPairsGaming]

Hard for me to get hyped about CW era tho!

[@dv6000islame]

What's improved in mp in CW? I've not heard.

[@bobtank6318]

@@ControlledPairsGaming I would give it a shot. It's the most balanced of the non-WW2 CM games, and offers a great look at the massive transitions the US Army went through in late 70s-early 80s period. Plus it adds cluster munitions.

[@run2u520]

I would recommend getting into Combat Mission: Black Sea. It features more modern equipment and a more challenging REDFOR in the form of the modernized Russian Army.

[@neuvedeno1]

Hi, great and informative content. What additional source, such as a book/pdf would you recommend? (About military tactics, CQB, stuff like what you are explaining in your videos...)

[@ControlledPairsGaming]

All FMs, ATPs, ADRPs etc are open source.

[@samargrewal929]

keep up the combat mission content . also will you play any of the other combat mission games ? .

[@TheFanoren]

Will you consider playing the other combat mission games? (Black sea, cold war, or the ww2 games)

[@ControlledPairsGaming]

Black Sea probably. Likely won't go backwards tho.

[@LifeInGeneral-z6f]

More of this please

[@thesilencec2915]

Nice gameplay CMSF2 is a lot more forgiving then CMBS where you have diferent terrain and technology, I guess that's why I prefer BS over SF2...

[@robertseymour2502]

Looks very cool, but the squad movement a.i. seems really bad? Small units getting stuck on invisible obstacles in open terrain or on a destroyed wall. Needs some more polish because I don't think any group of soldiers would move like that 🤣🤣 good vid, enjoyed your tactical assessment and steamroll 😎

[@ControlledPairsGaming]

Under the hood there is a shit ton of math going into ever movement and pixel. It's not pretty and it's not well represented at the individual Soldier level, but it's phenomenally well-modeled on the whole.

[@DubManor]

@@ControlledPairsGaming If the doors to the building you are entering are on a side that puts you in danger, use a breach to get in on a safe side. You can breach out of buildings as well. Brilliant content as ever.

[@dv6000islame]

The TAC AI has some issues with pathfinding, and if you aren't careful it can wreck your day. But much of that can be mitigated by how and where you place waypoints and the type of waypoints used. It's still not going to model an actual thinking soldier on the battlefield, but just saying there are things you can do to make it better. Usually Hapless describes the various movement options in CM here and how to get the most out of them if interested: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lXucd3p5fdaLfZI

[@crusher8017]

And from what I saw in this vid, you can't tell your troops line, line abreast, arrowhead, ech L or R. They seem to be running around like chickens with their heads cut off.

[@Roman9441]

Favorite map haha capture the center of map rushhhh

[@ghostbirdlary]

when more?

[@alperenayberk8800]

i see they upped the tempo a little in the new door kickers game

[@KashouWannabe]

I'm actually 1000% noob when it comes to this sort of military sim, but I still enjoy the titles. CMANO was great but the follow up was really overrated, and really proved the arrogance of the dev. Never heard of this title before and this looks very interesting.

[@VynalDerp]

I don't think this series has anything to do with CMANO. CMANO is Command: Modern Air / Naval Operations, whereas this game, CMSF2, is Combat Mission: Shock Force 2. There are other titles in it, if you've not heard of them yet either: CMBN (Battle for Normandy) CMFI (Fortress Italy), CMRT (Red Thunder), CMBS (Black Sea), CMFB (Final Blitzkrieg) and CMCW (Cold War). The devs of CM are still very ignorant of their own though...

[@KashouWannabe]

@@VynalDerp I didn't say that this has anything to do with CMANO, but as another tactical planning sim it is in the same genre.

[@melojei]

Considering the enemy had RPGs, it was pretty reckless to have the Bradleys push on first with the infantry behind, especially with all the angles that could be used against the Bradleys. I think the loss of the first Bradley could've been avoided and I'm surprised you didn't lose the second Bradley as well when it was on its own on the left side of the town, as a single rpg squad would've ruined that Bradley. In situations like this one would usually have the infantry push the frontline and use the Bradleys as backup if the infantry encounters armor or a fortified position they can't take on. Interesting watch though.

[@crusher8017]

Too true. Infantry should lead or screen the armoured vehicle in an urban environment, not the other way around.

[@flawer1316]

A mens dream

[@aaotcis]

Mechanized is not in my wheelhouse. However, early loss of BFV should be assessed as AI deficiency (skilled crew would have adjusted to place fire on target moving from defilade to enfilade). Otherwise, Commander-- Bravo Zulu! (Addendum: In retrospect, with BFV [prior to being disabled] engaged in "trading fire", prudence of movement was warranted to effect fire superiority, imo.)

[@armoredbaguette]

He should have left that M2 in the support by fire position, and moved it after the infantry had that intersection secured.

[@aaotcis]

@@armoredbaguette Based on limited mechanized experience in USAREUR, I agree. Using personnel carrier as OP with known AT threats seemed break from best practices.

[@rikwilliams6352]

Reference enfilading fire at 19:00 & during other troop movements in sight of known enemy strong points, what was your reason for not using smoke? Not a criticism but a genuine question.

[@ControlledPairsGaming]

Honestly just unfamiliar with the controls of the sim.

[@jacobotstot2021]

do you think now that you have a bigger following you may ris trying this game out again on the channel?

[@ControlledPairsGaming]

It's never been about following. I play games that I find fun and have time to play. CM is amazing.... But it takes tons of time.

[@jacobotstot2021]

@@ControlledPairsGaming Fair enough. It does take tons of time.

[@danielledormer942]

Rainbow six 1998

[@samueladiwinata3440]

About time

[@nexus888]

'real' military use this? Like back in ww2 or now? This is ancient and horrible to interact with. It runs very poorly too. The company just keep releasing scenario after scenario that costs heaps.

[@hotsingleplaguedoctorinarea]

We're hitting the Syrian Army in Iraq??

[@ControlledPairsGaming]

Correct. In the fictional scenario an incursion triggered allied intervention.

[@felicityc]

I feel this game is very skeletal and the Bradleys were just too strong. The streets are too wide (lol... imagine living in such a spread out place), the alleys are too wide, the buildings are too big, and there aren't enough of them. This is a "bad" place to defend anything, and any half-wit insurgent would know that. There are way too many keyhole opportunities for the combat vehicles. If you aren't essentially firing blind, you're not in an urban CQC. Obviously, the intention is to win with the lowest casualties (rather than just win). There is no way this is being used by any real militaries. ARMA would be better than this, and you can essentially do the same things. The doctrine and tactics are all well explained but the game is seriously lacking and you oversell it, imo. Edit: Yeah I gave it a try and wow what a clunky game. Seems like one of those extremely niche games.

[@tysumm]

It is used by Militaries though. They have a more in depth version of the game. It has its limits but can do some real good for training and simulations if used properly.

[@nafsiammara]

I honestly doubt any military would pay for this junk software. It's not nearly detailed enough and the engine is dogshit. There's SO MANY little simple things you cannot do, it's almost a nightmare to control. The AI is stupid as shit, including your own firing methods. There's no auto peaking or proper covering fire/clearance actions. You can't micro it cause there's not enough control. I say this after playing a few hundred hours and enjoying it. But it's nowhere near quality enough to be what they claim it is, and does not justify how they control distribution and milk development streams for the exact same product. Granted, I could still just be shit at the game. Still love playing it.

[@ControlledPairsGaming]

Lol. You ever tried WARSIM or VBS2?

[@nafsiammara]

​@@ControlledPairsGaming Never got my hands on VBS2, obviously played OpFlash and Arma the entire length of its series. My anger stems more from the pedestal they put themselves on here to justify the crazy prices and stupid isolationist sale and dev model they have. I still really love this game and play it a lot, but bloody hell it definitely needs some money or proper dev support to actually improve. Case in point was that mental grazing enfilade you went through, though I loved seeing you adjust and explain so I can't complain. It's nuts trying to micro one units movement to the extent they run out into the street to access a door, but the soldiers themselves don't act realistically for self preservation and just get gunned down until they break and run. The game doesn't have that much control in general but it demands you make those movements exactly and perfectly otherwise a perfectly handled situation can just end in a massacre.

[@crusher8017]

@@nafsiammara In Oz we call it a cluster fuck.

[@notcrazy6288]

This is exactly the kind of dogshit the army would pay good money for.

[@Kirbs69]

this game is soo fucking over priced don't know anyone would play this instead of call to arms only if its on sale tho beacause that game is over prized too asd got its own problems but atleast its not $80