Controversy in the 2023 NEC: Above Grade Garages Don't Need GFCI?

[@jfbeam]

Looks like someone left a comma or two. Does the rest of that mess apply to "garages" or just the "accessory buildings". Like many others, I agree they should be individual enumerated items.

[@SparkyChannel]

Right on, I agree!

[@billstarr9396]

The only controversy here is that NEC groups a garage in with other outbuildings. Any garage, at or above grade, can and will have a vehicle parked in it that is cover by rain, ice, hail pellets or snow. All of which can form puddles on the floor. Therefore, in my mind, GFCI protection is required.

[@SparkyChannel]

I agree. Thanks Bill!

[@icevariable9600]

Yet, the puddle on the floor is a greater distance to 4’ level outlets than the distance is from basin to outlet in kitchen and bathrooms.

[@larrylawson5172]

The missing comma could be a scrivener’s error. It is a legal term for an error created by the Scrivener. An antique term for a person that wrote stuff down. If a printer (the person not the thing on my desk) forgot a comma or period or dropped a letter or obviously misspelled a word, it is a Scrivener’s Error. Sometimes it takes a while for the error to surface. BUT, it can have consequences.

[@SparkyChannel]

It sure can. Thanks!

[@wingman8447]

I guess some folks read what they want to read. Maybe that’s where a good inspector comes in. Also why wouldn’t you want to go with the best practices if you’re unsure. Always do your best work. Good video.

[@SparkyChannel]

Yes, to err on the side of caution is usually best.

[@sfnsfn6628]

Great question about the code. Also, what is considered "at grade level"? Even with the ground/grade? 1" above the ground/grade? 12" above the ground/grade?

[@SparkyChannel]

The NEC should define "grade" for us IMO.

[@russellboedeker2070]

A formal definition of "grade level" would be of benefit. Even the ground floor of a house is somewhat above the actual ground. We don't live in log cabins built on dirt floors. If you use "grade" as the earth you are standing on outside, pretty much every structure is then technically above grade level. Would seem doubtful that is the intention. A definition could be along the lines of "the lowest floor level of a structure intended as habitable rooms...", or something like that. Then define "outside grade level" as the earth one stands upon if needed, which it may be to cover outdoor electrical situations.

[@mkidd8806]

It's fine as written which includes other storage buildings. Remember at grade is referring to earth that the slab sets on etc. In other articals it mentions 6 1/2 ft height for access above grade for outlet.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks!

[@davidmarquardt9034]

Years ago, this was much simpler. The traditional garage most of us grew up with was a single car. Then in the 1970's we went to 2 car garages. I consider concrete floors as "semi-conductors". When dry, it should be non-conductive, but concrete is porous, it may look dry on the surface, but you can never tell how much moisture it contains. To sum up the code, a GFCI is required anywhere that is wet or damp, Bathrooms, Kitchens, Basements, outdoor outlets and garages. But now in the last 25 years or so, people have started putting in actual walk up lofts, with solid floors and lights and outlets. But by the damp/wet definition this part of the garage has no higher shock risk than a second floor bedroom in the house, which does not require GFCI protection. But in the next few years, they will probably require GFCI/AFCI breakers on water heaters, dryers, and stoves, and EVERY other circuit in the house!

[@JohnTarbox]

Bill, perhaps you could make a video describing how the NEC is revised and how "ambiguities" like this are resolved as part of the revision process.

[@SparkyChannel]

Good idea, thanks!

[@Roommate625]

If it was garages "period", why would they not have put accessory buildings under a new number? Edit: After thinking about it, I'm unsure if an above grade garage/accessory space requires GFCI. Example: 2nd floor of a detached garage is a dedicated machinist/wood working space. It's still a garage, does the second floor require GFCI? With my new question, I would like to say I believe the code is written by very intelligent people putting in a lot of time and effort to communicate concepts to a wide assortment of people with a process for continued improvement. People often disagree on the meaning of written documents and it's fun to point it out.

[@dwayne7356]

What is exactly is an "accessory building"? A shed? A wood working shop? Feed storage building? Dirty floor? Wood floor? Cement floor? Writing the code is tough. What I called an out building on the northeast might be different in the southwest. Probably should have had its on numbered paragraph.

[@SparkyChannel]

I agree. Put garages and accessory buildings, etc. on their own numbered bullet points. And the NEC should define "grade" for us.@@dwayne7356

[@jfbeam]

I agree. The people writing these things aren't always the sharpest nail in the shed. What they have in their head is what they think they put on paper. To other people, that's an unclear run-on sentence. You'd think any number of their lawyers would've read that and flagged it.

[@pattognozzi]

Hey Bill, random question/video recommendation. Is there a way to go about pulling continuous power from a 14/3 wire? For example, you’ve got a receptacle box where 12/3 is coming in to a three-way switch, and then 12/2 is leaving up a light. Is it possible to add an and additional 12/2 in that box and pull continuous power for an outlet? Thanks!

[@trope5105]

One thing that stuck with me in 7th grade, was what my Home Ec teacher told us, also a debate leader. "Listen to what people mean, not what they say"! unfortunately, this is lost on most people, but also, in our trade, our code is written in legalize', which in the court of law, basically means there is not much room, if any, for interpretation. the code says what it says, and that is, what it is! lol.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks!

[@swisaj]

Question- what is typical for the final inspection on a residential job. Jumping power from temporary service, using generator power or something else? Thanks for your input.

[@SparkyChannel]

It's typical to work on the construction with temporary power, then with the coordination of the local utility, your inspector and the electrical contractor, the permanent power is turned on.

[@swisaj]

@@SparkyChannel i got a city that wants me to buy an additional permit, temporary permanent power, for the final. In Birmingham Alabama.

[@thomasdragosr.841]

So to CYA you will put a GFCI in any out building, storage shed, lean to, covered pad with a roof only, etc. that has electricity.

[@SparkyChannel]

Yes, I think so.

[@ikeraiser266]

what if the wall mounted microwave was plugged into a outlet and the outlet was mounted on the inside of a kitchen cabinet do you still have to change out a regular outlet for a gfci?...(not sure if the outlet is or not wired up to a gfci breaker though and the microwave is mounted close to a sink though)

[@JohnQPublic345]

no, because it serves a dedicated appliance, and not readily accessible

[@randallthomas5207]

I think the code should be written: All Garages, and accessory buildings, which have a floor is at or below grade level…. I think the problem is arising because we aren’t thinking through the code, and what they are attempting to accomplish. My thought is anything with a slab on grade concrete floor, should have GFI protection, because even if the slab on grade is built on an elevated building pad, above the grade of the surrounding lot, that slab on grade will have a direct path to ground, due to the moisture in the soil. In my mind any concrete slab which you can construct a Ufer ground by bonding to the reinforcing steel, is a ground. All the areas/locations requiring GFI protection have a good uninsulated path to ground. So, if yhe code intent is protecting people from becoming the path to ground, anything with a slab on grade floor, requires GFI protection.

[@Weasel_NM575]

Hasn’t it always been code that all receptacles are GFCI in garages?!

[@phi5head]

Yes. And it still is. It's just poorly written. But it's been written this way at least since the 2017 code(except 2017 has a comma after "garages"). So, if there's a "controversy" it's not new.

[@SparkyChannel]

Why did they remove the comma after 2017? Anyone know?

[@donl1410]

@@SparkyChannel I believe it was originally written to separate the two structure types. Rewriting it using their language, could say, "Garages (pause), and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level,,, ". To me that is saying, garages require GFCI protection and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level,, require GFCI protection. Removing the comma lumps the two structures and floor positions with respect to grade, together with the same GFCI requirements.. A thought. I believe I'll write for a formal state wide interpretation.

[@phi5head]

I doubt it was purposeful.@@SparkyChannel

[@ElectroAtletico]

@@phi5head Disagree. Revisions have to go thru the editorial & legal review. Both know full well how a single "," can affect the meaning of the sentence. Ambiguities exist to employ folks like them.

[@scott_meyer]

My garage has a single 20a circuit for the 3 inside and 2 outside outlets. One single 20a GFCI outlet protects all 5.

[@SparkyChannel]

Sounds good. Thanks Scott!

[@rupe53]

regardless of how you define things, "at grade" is likely to mean walking (or driving) into the structure without steps. "Above grade" likely means it's not a garage, in which case all of the other rules apply. IOW, cement floors and close to a sink/ tub / shower will mean GFCI is needed.

[@lordgarth1]

The probably wrote it this way because a garage can be an accessory building if it's not used for sheltering vehicles and implies the rules are the same for both.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks!

[@dwayne7356]

How does the NEC define grade. I am not an electrician, but to me all garages except parking garages are at grade otherwise what kind of ramp do you have to drive up to get in. Do they suddenly become dry areas above grade even after you park you wet car in it? My garage identifies as a workshop anyway. Hasn't seen a car in decades.

[@SparkyChannel]

Yes, the NEC should define what they mean by grade. I agree.

[@johndavies2949]

So if my garage is at grade but my accessory building is above grade I don't need GFI in garage because of the word and? It's easy to have an accessory building above grade. I could block it up with cinder blocks because I don't want the building floor to be in contact with the soil. Then I have a ramp built up to the door. Or maybe it's just a shed to store garden tools that has a set up to the door.

[@jimsummers487]

Wet locations require protection… Shall means must

[@ehammond30]

It seems this code still requires GFCI for any residential garage I've ever seen. Where would you find a residential garage above grade level?

[@kenbrown2808]

my brother could make the claim that his garage is above grade, since there is a breezeway under it. but since you drive downhill into it, the entrance is still at grade level.

[@SparkyChannel]

Build your stem walls first, then pour your garage floor as high as you like. A driveway would have to go downhill from the garage for the floor to be above grade.

[@donl1410]

@@kenbrown2808 Is the floor conductive?

[@ehammond30]

Hmm, interesting thought. I would think that the driveway entering the garage would be considered the finish grade, regardless of which way it slopes. Maybe if you had a bridge or structural ramp to access your garage, it could be considered above grade, lol.

[@jimsummers487]

Wet locations require protection…. Shall means must !

[@richardcranium5839]

could the "below grade" be referring to a place where water may pool due to bad drainage. thus a water use for gfci's. note this is in dwellling and the exception states not intended as habitable. i'd rather see them put in and most LOCAL codes require them

[@SparkyChannel]

I agree. Thanks Richard!

[@scott_meyer]

I have seen homes with a garage over basement space. Would this garage be exempt?

[@OldBaldDad]

If they meant to treat garages and accessory buildings as the same thing, they could have written "garages and accessory buildings." But they stuck the word "also" in there, suggesting that garages one one thing, and everything after the "also" is a different thing. It definitely could have been written more clearly.

[@SparkyChannel]

I agree, thanks!

[@tedmcdonald3377]

Morning Bill 😎⚒️😎⚒️😎

[@SparkyChannel]

Morning Ted!

[@jake-mv5oi]

Not a fan of the 250V part. Guessing thats for EV chargers. Hope that doesn't cause problems with my welders/plasma cutters in the shop I plan on building.

[@dperreno]

Except most (if not all) EVSEs have GFCI built in already, which causes big problems. Should be an exception for appliances/devices that have GFCI built-in.

[@SparkyChannel]

Excellent point.@@dperreno

[@vicktorpatriot1430]

Add the welder supply circuits after the government trough feeders aka inspectors have signed off on the permit(s)

[@rupe53]

@@dperreno there is an exception... it's called hardwiring.... if the appliance (EV power) has its own GFCI built in.

[@marcfruchtman9473]

The NEC should consider Equipment Ground Fault Protection devices as alternatives to GFCI for certain equipment such as refrigerator/freezers, or equipment subject to nuisance tripping.

[@SparkyChannel]

Interesting, thanks!

[@russellboedeker2070]

Ground fault protection has been in place for ages with equipment grounding/bonding requirements via a three wire plug to a three prong outlet. That should be more than sufficient for protection on dedicated appliance outlets. Adding a GFCI on top of that, in these dedicated circumstances, is a cost and complexity overkill. I can't think of a benefit payback. It's not as if someone is repeatedly plugging and unplugging their refrigerator while standing in a bucket of water and grabbing a cold water pipe through a convient hole in the drywall.

[@marcfruchtman9473]

@@russellboedeker2070Not all ground faults occur on the grounded case of equipment or where the bond would help. So, under the limited condition where the ground fault is to the grounded case of the equipment, and it is properly bonded, then yes, it will trip the breaker; BUT, if there is a loose wire touching water, and that loose wire is NOT directly touching the grounded and bonded case, then if a person touches that loose wire or the water then they potentially get shocked or worse, and there won't be enough return thru the EGC to save the person from shock without the GFCI.

[@dag4-bp3kb]

just take out the word 'also''!

[@SparkyChannel]

I was wondering why they included the word "also".

[@OtisPlunk]

It means whatever the local inspector says it means…

[@ElectroAtletico]

Simple solution: Just install them. It's an inconsequential expense in the larger scheme of building construction/renovation.

[@SparkyChannel]

I agree. Thanks!

[@Don-pq5gg]

NOT installing GFCI in any garage - regardless of grade -- is begging for a failed inspection. And all the hassle that goes with it.

[@SparkyChannel]

True. Thanks Don!

[@RJ-ej1nr]

Pick one NEC. Can we make a comment for next cycle? (2) Garages (3) Accessory… Or (2) Garages and accessory buildings, that

[@kenbrown2808]

there is a form in the codebook you can copy and send with suggestions.

[@RJ-ej1nr]

@@kenbrown2808 If you talking about the second to last page of the NEC, that’s not a form, it’s description of the process. The first comment cycle for 2026 is over, the second one starts later this year. IIRC though, for the second cycle you can only comment on what was updated from the first cycle.

[@SparkyChannel]

I agree, pick one!

[@JohnQPublic345]

any room subject to water spillage, on a regular basis, should be GFCI protected.... thats how I understand it.

[@SparkyChannel]

True, thanks!

[@Eddy63]

Well done Bill ... Thx

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Eddy!

[@Clark-Mills]

To clarify, they should steal the brackets () from maths... :) "(Garages and also accessory buildings) that have a floor located..." "Garages and also (accessory buildings that have a floor located...)"

[@SparkyChannel]

That would help, thanks!

[@Fukuimold]

An GFCI is SOP regardless of it being above grade, even if it’s not required why cheep out on a possible life saving feature?

[@malikto1]

Poor writing isn't unusual to find. Most definitely garages need GFCI.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks!

[@marcfruchtman9473]

If they wanted Garages to have a period after the word, they should have put it as a separate line item, like all the others. So, I read that as being a combined sentence... meaning that (garages and accessory buildings) that have a floor at or below grade... Having said that, I don't see the need for describing the "grade" at all. What difference does the grade level make with respect to safety... NONE. A ground fault can occur at any level, at grade, below grade or above grade. If I were the AHJ, I would ignore the grade comment completely for safety reasons, and require GFCI for all garages... regardless of location.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks!

[@luislazogue8089]

Is funny, the house that I’m working now have the garage like a foot over grade level, if you give me an email I can send you the picture.

[@SparkyChannel]

[e-mail] Bill

[@luislazogue8089]

@@SparkyChannel I just emailed you.

[@michaeljavert4635]

It's mostly common sense. People that don't have an understanding of NEC ought not to mess with their wiring. Electricians that know, know what is meant and what the code requirements are. As stupidity evolves, it's coming to the point that everything is going to require more and more protection, as we're seeing with the incorporation of GFCI on all circuit breakers. In my area, any rewire or new work also requires a whole home surge protector. Then everything will change and people will be using solar and battery power for everything. As it stands right now, inverted power does not have a GFCI and will not work if a GFCI is added inline. I checked it. Also, all 3 lights on a simple circuit tester will illuminate, and the legend has no reference to what that means.

[@SparkyChannel]

Interesting, thanks!

[@russellboedeker2070]

It is poorly worded based on the most likely intention. A garage that is built for driving your vehicle in and out that is above grade level would be a rare design indeed, I've never seen one. A non-vehicle storage type garage or other similar outbuilding could be built above or even well above grade level. This is where the inspector's judgement would come in to play. I would be hard pressed to believe that an inspector wouldn't require GFCI in a garage type structure designed for vehicle storage regardless of measuring grade level, as that seems what the code writers (for whom English must be their third langage) meant to convey. My third grade English teacher would be appauled.

[@SparkyChannel]

LOL! Russell, you cracked me up! My 3rd grade teacher would have been very disappointed as well.

[@kenbrown2808]

I'm sticking with my two comments: 1: punctuation saves lives: "let's eat grandma" 2: how are you going to get your car into your above grade garage?

[@SparkyChannel]

Yes, a comma can make a lot of difference. Thanks Ken!

[@marcfruchtman9473]

Car Elevator. Then as you brag to your buddy about not having to have GFCI because you're "above grade" on the second floor as you charge up your EV, and get the shock of your life...

[@kenbrown2808]

@@marcfruchtman9473EV chargers aren't GFCI protected.

[@marcfruchtman9473]

@@kenbrown2808Interesting. The code says 125v through 250v... what allows them to be excluded if installed in a garage?

[@kenbrown2808]

@@marcfruchtman9473electric cars charge at over 300V.

[@saulgoodman2018]

GFCI will not hurt. But they did not mess up. They have to have an excuse for people to buy the next version of the book.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Saul!

[@vince6829]

A little ambiguous, for sure.