Conversation on Chapter Five part 2 of the Christology of Rudolf Steiner

A conversation on themes around the pre-existence of Christ and understanding the work of the guidance of humanity before the incarnation and the events we relate to through the Bible. With Martin Samson (the Author), Angus Hawkins ‪‪‪@TheExceptionalState‬ Nicola Hoggard Creegan ‪‪‪@nzcis7114‬ Craig Logan. Presents and discusses some themes arising from reading the second half of chapter 5 of Martin's PhD thesis: theses.flinder...

[@AquariusGate]

40:16 there are no truths that appear in the world. There are only objects and the essence of objects is in the spirit. Truth is in spirit, the essence of expression. The search for core truth removes the nature of relative truth. The relativity of truth is the core truth. Animals are self-possessed in their essence. The journey of consciousness and spirit that has been described is humanity gaining self-possession, a view of being, not onlu an understanding.

[@matthewmccartin7069]

I don't think the interpretation of animals as not being self aware in their behavior is correct. I think what is important in that observation is that we (most of humanity) lack the faculties latent in our awareness to perceive the levels of reality that they operate out of. Most animals don't appear to feel the degree of cognitive separation that we do, but I think it is a false kind of egoity to label their activity as unconscious what we simply fail to perceive in its multidimensional character. Interaction with other beings on earth requires living thinking, which the majority of us have not developed, and which would change our perception of animals entirely. Someone like Anna Breytenbach describes this well. She communicates on the level of "essence" with the being of animals. This is a higher faculty that we need to cultivate. She describes this as an activity of being "aware". Animals know by being aware of another's inner experience, by moving awareness to know, something which we can hope to do through empathy, a potential faculty of compassion which Christ brought. We have a lot to learn by them by engaging them on this level. Even if Steiner puts the human on a high footing, what he describes is not who we are in the 21st century and we should recognize how deficient we are spiritually as individuals and a society. Also, science and math , as a product of the intellect which is separated from spiritual reality, cannot process the contribution of levels of consciousness and the truth of being to the science of living things. This Steiner stated plainly for instance in the conclusion of The Riddles of Philosophy. Science and math describe the operations of matter, not what is manifesting through the activity of spirit. We need to cultivate spiritual science and then apply this seeing to the physical world to live in to its multidimensional character. Great presentation but I would comment on those two statements that were made.

[@judeneemesamson1962]

I think you are right @matthewmccartin7069 . animals have a different way of thinking and cognizing and communicating. It is their language that is difficult for us to access. even understanding how they might be making meaning of things too.

[@matthewmccartin7069]

@@judeneemesamson1962 even though it's somewhat different to this thread, I'm not sure if you're aware of the Cymascope and it's investigation of dolphin clicks. Worth looking into on John Stuart Reid's Cymatics website.

[@DrWolves]

Well said. I think I agree with both of you.