Has Platonism and Gnosticism Influenced Christianity?

[@pontificusmaximus6716]

01:59 "if we're trying to get truth or avoid error or something like that we got to get down to the granular level of the specific truths or errors that we're dealing with". I'm happy to report that Harold Eberle has done a very nice job with precisely this in book #1 of Father-Son Theology. Here are the 2 lists of attributes of God that he traces and discusses: God of Greek Philosophy / Classical Theism ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Timeless Immutable (Cannot Change) Impassible (Never Acted Upon) Perfect (In the Philosophical Sense) Omnipotent (All-powerful) Omniscient (All-knowing) Omnipresent (Present Everywhere) Self-Sufficient (Needing Nothing & Wanting Nothing) Simple (Having No Parts) Transcendent (Independent of & Absent from Creation) Wholly Other Incomprehensible Unknowable God of the Bible -------------------------- Father Living Relational and Social Personal and Responsive Emotional Relational Covenant-Maker El Shaddai (God Almighty) Yahweh Jireh (Lord Our Provider) Yahweh Rapha (Lord Our Healer) Yahweh Nissi (Lord Our Banner) Yahweh Shalom (Lord Our Peace) Yahweh Tsidkenu (Lord Our Righteousness) Yahweh Rohi (Lord Our Shepherd) Yahweh M'kadesh (Lord Our Holiness) Jealous Consuming Fire Holy

[@78LedHead]

KJV Only, congrats on having one of the most charming accents on planet earth. I forget all of the different names for the UK accents but that has to be one of the coolest. Loved the discussion gentlemen. I wish the Christian world wasn't so messed up right now and we all could feel free and safe to discuss these things. It's reeeeeeal bad out there. Had a discussion with a lady who was teetering on walking away from it all because of how people get treated. I pray I edified her with my response. It's impossible for the Christ I experience to lead us astray.

[@QuinnBoone]

Alright, just jump right in... I like it!

[@eiontactics9056]

Very interesting and informative.

[@billmarvel8111]

It is a growing process in remembering whose we are and who God is. God is love! Press on in the greatest commandment, it is a learning process. To know Him and the power of His resurrection and fellowship of His suffering. Bottom line this is a growing process!!

[@reconciliationruss9027]

The Late” Right Division” pastorTerrence McLean wrote a book extensively on the king James Bible and done considerable research Dispensational Publishing from Xena Ohio. I did not always agree but it made me a formal KJV prefered.

[@donaldbryce1939]

Thanks

[@KevinThompson1611]

Thank you

[@brotherthunder80]

This was an interesting discussion. It seems to me there is a sharp distinction to be made between one levying a dismissive label at a position or perspective due to it's resemblance to another source (genetic falisy), and desiring fidelity to the original biblical data by rejecting the overlaying of foreign philosophical categories on the text of scripture. The same way we might object to reinterpreting passages of scripture through a Marxist philisophical lense. As best we can we have to assertain whether an idea would have been alien to the mental landscape of the original audience, and if so, really question how much it should be entertained as 15:39 relevant to the message. Btw, love the channel. Your perspectives have been very helpful to me.

[@tylerdavis520]

How long have you been in explore mode?

[@KevinThompson1611]

Since about 2018 or so. Explore mode comes with compounding interest.

[@AfricanRockFish]

I am familiar with Hegel. From the little I know about the Mau and Stalin regimes, it seems to me that Calvinism is a "color revolution" taking place within the church and the manipulation tactics & behaviors of the purveyors of Calvinism are very reminiscent of the Mau & Stalin use of "color revolutions."

[@HowToThink-h7e]

Still haven’t heard a reason to reject Aristotelian logic (AL) that didn’t involve USING Aristotelian logic. To even IDENTIFY something AS AL is to use the law of identity, and then to COMPARE AL to something else involves the law of identity, excluded middle and non-contradiction. Now, I am not saying there is a rejection of it here, I just think its usefulness is unavoidable and interwoven into reality.

[@KevinThompson1611]

Read Iain McGilchrist’s latest two books.

[@HowToThink-h7e]

@@KevinThompson1611when I do get to it, I will try it out. Have found signal in Master/Emissary. That being said, regarding my point, even to refer to a BOOK or two, proves my exact point. A book uses WORDS. In order for words to have any significance at all, they have to adhere to Aristotelian logic. One word means something DIFFERENT than another word (law of identity). Right hemisphere equals right hemisphere, left hemisphere equals left hemisphere. In order for left hemisphere to have any meaning and left hemisphere to have any meaning, left hemisphere cannot be equivalent to right hemisphere (law of non contradiction). In order for the claims about left hemisphere vs. right hemisphere to be TRUE the claims about left hemisphere have to be true (or not) about the left hemisphere, while the claims about right hemisphere have to be true (or false) regarding the right hemisphere which abides by the law of the excluded middle. Any which way it is sliced, McGhilchrist HAS TO use Aristotelian logic in order to disprove/discredit Aristotelian logic. It is unavoidable. Therefore any attempt by ANYONE to discredit Aristotelian logic is an act of cutting off the very branch they are sitting on.

[@scottmcloughlin4371]

@@HowToThink-h7e Yup. Christian Scripture is ONLY accessible (open to legitimate exegesis) in Koine Greek. Scripture is FULL of big hairy Plato, Aristotle, Diogenes and Zeno vocabulary. Christian Scripture does not 'translate" into American TV-English. Not one bit. Many Americans seem to imagine that Scripture is "a story." As if Scripture were some ink-on-paper approximation to a set of imagined video tapes that would "be more clear." That is completely errant. That's screwing up from the very start. This applies to the OT and NT. Centuries of early Christian scholars read and interpreted the Koine Greet OT in a manner similar to (not identical to) how Philo of Alexandria interpreted the Koine Greek OT. A few centuries of poorly educated American charlatans pretending to be "smart about" Scripture now have too many American Christians today turned around in circles and tied up in knots.

[@jacobwittmer2479]

Do you think it’s possible to consider yourself a Provisionist in so far as it’s a quick distinguisher of your understanding so far, but not rigid in that for fear of misunderstanding and misapplying scripture but not be an ideologue?

[@KevinThompson1611]

Emphatically, NO. My understanding so far is very different than, and beyond provisionism. It would be profane to attempt to classify where I am with a propositionally normative taxonomy.

[@jacobwittmer2479]

What’s the reason you like KJV why not go all the way back to the Greek and do only the Greek and Hebrew?

[@KevinThompson1611]

Are you asking Kevin or Bob? I (Kevin) refer to the original languages constantly.

[@RedeemedRogueMolecules]

Lol. My man hit the big time.

[@jasont2986]

Kevin. You need to let the other person speak without interruption more often.

[@KevinThompson1611]

@@jasont2986 Yes. If he was the guest I would. I was a guest on his channel and short on time. Just rebroadcasting to my channel.

[@King_James_Only]

@@KevinThompson1611 = *Can interrupt me any time he needs to*

[@minorsingingairhead]

_Calvin's [...] theology [...] greatly influenced the Geneva Bible, printed during his life in A.D. 1560. The Geneva Bible in turn affected the theology of the Authorized or King James Version first published in 1611. [...] Historical scholar C. C. Butterworth claimed the King James Version was influenced more by the Geneva Bible than any other version. In personal research and comparison of the two texts, I am astounded at the similarity. One wonders if it is even fair to call the King James Version a translation. Were the men whom the king commissioned translators or copiers?_ - Howard Elseth

[@randallwegman1028]

Heard Bishops Bible was a big influence on KJV as well as the OG; Tyndale. How do they all compare side by side...

[@Berean_with_a_BTh]

The KJV's translators - all of whom were Anglicans (Episcopalians) and all but one of whom were clergy in that church - drew heavily from the Tyndale Bible - about 5/6 (83%) of the KJV New Testament is Tyndale's words and about 3/4 (76%) of the KJV Old Testament is Tyndale's words. In turn, Tyndale's New Testament was translated into English using Erasmus’ 3rd printed edition of the text compiled from only eight Greek manuscripts (all dated from the 11th to 16th centuries, with heavy reliance on manuscripts from the 12th to 14th centuries). The translators of the KJV also didn't examine any manuscripts for themselves. What they used was _printed critical editions_ (not actual manuscripts) of the Greek & Hebrew texts produced by Erasmus, Stephanus & Bezae - and even the Latin Vulgate. The KJV's translators may have been the best the Anglican (Episcopalian) church had to offer, but that doesn't mean they were the most qualified and their translation didn't benefit from the input qualified scholars from other denominations might have been able to supply.

[@genesis1156]

kevin has unfortunately ventured so far in philosophy that know hes trying to justify gnosticism. kevin, Col 2:8 was clear and you didnt heed. Please depart from this before it consumes you