Convert A 40 Year Old DC Loco To DCC (247)

Converting old steam locos can be quite a challenge since it often requires replacing the motor and overhauling the gears pr drive mechanism. In this video I'll show how to install a DCC decoder in a 40 year old MDC shay steam locomotive that has been run in about 30 years, then we'll see how well it performs.
My website is larrypuckett.wordpress.com

[@gbwdude]

Two things I'd suggest doing to any open frame motor that has had lots of runtime and/or stored in preparation for a DCC conversion: 1. Pull the brushes and clean the commutator plates with a fiberglass pencil (found on Amazon for less than $10) so they're physically clean, followed by cleaning with 91% rubbing alcohol, CRC 2-26 or similar electrical cleaner. Make sure to also get in between the commutator plates with a toothpick or small pick to get the gunk out that could make an electrical bridge and let the magic smoke out. 2. This may be moreso for 1950's and 1960's era motors that have lost their magnetic power, but a simple replacement with neodymium magnets will help cut current draw by magnifying the magnetic field. I can't recall what size mine are for standard replacement but they made a big difference in amp draw, from stall current of 1.13A down to 0.4A stall current. As far as drive train quieting, there's many methods like the old tooth polish cream method. However I'm not familiar with MDC's Shays but the Climax and Boxcab share the same mechanism and can benefit from the aforementioned method.

[@TheDCCGuy]

I actually gave the motor a good cleaning with CRC contact cleaner but forgot to mention that. The magnet in this case seemed to still be quite strong and the loco ran well so I don’t think a magnet replacement was in order but a good thing to check. I think that MicroMark used to sell replacement magnets. I haven’t used the old toothpaste trick in ages. Pearl White ws always a good one to use as it had a lot of abrasives in it. Good suggestions.

[@johnrettig1880]

I am so Glad that this video posted . I have a several M D C Shay kits that I have still not put together . The ONLY THING that I've done is that I noticed the difference between the standard gauge and Narrow Gauge and cut off the shaft extensions for the standard gauge and made them narrow ho / n3 . Otherwise nothing else was done . D C C was just getting started and the only thing that was available was a chipboard for running lights only forward and backward for the Shays . Maybe I'll dig them out of storage . I still have the M D C instruction book that they made .

[@RobertEHunt-dv9sq]

“Professor Larry”, nice work converting this older locomotive. Runs great. As the boiler is solid, you can adding a LED front headlight by drilling out the plastic headlight casting and then installing a 1.0 mm LED with a 1K resistor. One wire is red, paint it flat black and then run the wires above the grab handles on each side of the top of the boiler. CA in place to keep it neat. Cut slots in the front of the cab to pass the wires to the motor assembly for soldering. Looks like conduit on the outside of the boiler and not bad at all. The tender LED can be easily added and passed through the plastic tender assembly to the motor for soldering. See my video “Improving the MDC Shay”. Cheers and keep up the good and informative videos.

[@kenvandevoort7820]

Thank you, Larry. I have a 25 year old unbuilt MDC HOn3 shay kit and wanted to build it with DCC, but didn't know what to do. I do now, thanks to you.

[@pieroluciano3272]

Great Video Larry! I've been able to add more modern skewed motors to these older locomotives by replacing their u-joints from the motor to the drive-train with thick silicone tubing 👍

[@jetporter]

I built one of these for my Dad about 20 years ago from a "Roundhouse" branded kit I found at the hobby shop. It never really ran very nicely, and eventually stopped working altogether because the gears on each axle inside the bogies had split and were turning freely on the axles. Luckily, NWSL still sells re-gear kits! I took the opportunity to change the large gears in the main driveline to the brass ones from NWSL as well. The re-gear kit also comes with new metal universal shafts that are smaller and less visible under the model. Now the model seems to run quite smoothly, and makes less noise. Interestingly, the motor that came with this one is skew-wound.

[@andyd_9]

Thanks Larry! I was one of the people that asked for an old DC locomotive to DCC conversion a month ago or so. This is exactly what I wanted to see. I am about to add DCC to my old Bowser to Bachmann J class repower kit and looks simple enough. I already have the pickups done on the tender...just waiting on my current keeper to arrive so I can install it all at the same time...coupled with the iPhone 4 speakers I bought, I should be good to go! As usual, you provide a great video with simple instructions. You are my go to (DCC) guy for all things HO!

[@arziac2677]

Im awaiting on a 2-truck shay myself, and cant wait to start building it, so this will be perfect to reference too!

[@TheDCCGuy]

Have fun, as I remember these buggers were a pain to put together and get running reliably.

[@arziac2677]

@@TheDCCGuy so I've heard, but that's just part of the fun!

[@kevincase6202]

Enjoy take your time i have built 8 2 truck and 4 3 truck MDC or Roundhouse Shay kits some with can motors some with updated open frame, take time on side gear assembly, buy, still available, spare brass electrical pick ups for your trucks, polish frame and brass pick ups, they can be assembled to run good but they are noisey

[@CarlBrainerd]

Thanks for this! I have one of those 40-year old MDC kits that's still on my shelf waiting to be built. I think it's time may be coming soon. Luckily, back in the day, I did pick up those NWSL replacement gears, so they are also in the box. I intend to shoehorn sound into it if I can, even if it means putting a speaker under the cab roof. But we will see..... Thanks for sharing.

[@TheDCCGuy]

If you can find the spare tender that would be a great way to squeeze in sound.

[@mattomon1045]

Lary Thanks for doing this. I have a factory made one From M D C I have worked around a real Shay And thay soun alike, A lot of gear noise.

[@danhenderson488]

Love your videos as they are clear and helpful. Would you please make a video that describes remotoring - that includes recommendations on motor choice and where to get them. thx

[@johnuthus]

thank you for making this, i recently got 3 70s steam engines and have another 2 ones that dont have the boards as well.

[@grantv2313]

Another fantastic video. I often see nice older steamers I’d like to have that are DC but don’t know if I wanted to tackle the project. Have done a lot of work on locos upgrading them but never a DC to DCC conversion. This looks like it might not be too bad in a larger version like a 4-8-4 that would have a lot more room.

[@michaeldodd7640]

Hi Larry, I really enjoy your videos. There are some good signal articles I have found in Model RailRoader, March,April 2001 and June 1972 that show how to light the yellow light but may need some modifying for today's LEDs. Thank you and keep up the good work.

[@TheDCCGuy]

I think the April 2001 article is the circuit I am building for the PS. It included a board layout but finding a place to make the boards now is a PITA so I am hand building which takes a long time since with a double track mainline I need two for each block. I’ll eventually get enough done for a demo of the system, but I think most folks will want an off the shelf ready to run version. Are you the Mike Dodd who used to make fast clock kits?

[@swiv99]

your videos are gold Larry...thank you so much!!

[@bernardc2553]

Larry I'm very appreciative I've got many MANY older loco's some will be getting dcc-up grades & keep a lives to bad our Radio shack closed everything here is "Must Order" thanks for all you do especially like these steam conversations!! :-)

[@TheDCCGuy]

I can’t find your post about my talk with George so I’ll answer it here-KZbin is weird. We talked about an hour yesterday and I will have an update in the Feedback segment of my next video.

[@bernardc2553]

@@TheDCCGuy Gezz Larry you sure put alot of heart & soul into helping Soo many ppl HANDSHAKES 🤝 My Friend

[@stewartclark1847]

Hi Larry, another interesting video. I’ve converted all of my older Triang & Hornby models to DCC too (some of the Triang models I received as a kid where back in1962) It’s very satisfying to see them running around my layout under DCC. As you suggest I make sure the decoder can handle the loco amps. Rgds from Down Under.

[@peglegvideos]

How refreshing to see a youtuber creator asking for LESS comments 🤣

[@geraldjones2278]

Appreciate the video. I have one of these but no place to use it on my layout so I doubt I will ever try to DCC it. One thing I would like to mention and maybe you would like to offer your opinion. I have several older diesel locomotives that I have installed decoders in and due to space limitations, I sometimes could only install one sugar cube speaker rated at 1 amp. On one of my installations, the decoder stopped functioning so I contacted SoundTraxx to try to find out what the problem might be. After much discussion about various possibilities, SoundTraxx informed me that if you install a single 1 amp speaker with their 2amp decoders. you stand a good chance of destroying the decoder. Now the instructions that come with these decoders say "best with 1-2 amp speakers" and don't mention blowing one up with only a single 1 amp speaker so I was not particularly happy finding that out now when I have several older model diesels that I installed their decoder in with only one speaker due to space limitations. You might want to mention this to your viewers so that this might not happen to them.

[@TheDCCGuy]

I’ll have to ask George about that as he has never mentioned it to me before either. I’ll get to the bottom of this, thanks.

[@bernardc2553]

@@TheDCCGuy Larry be helpful to follow up after Talking to George thanks my friend

[@2nd66tube2]

NWSL regear kit is available depending where you look

[@freakazoid5907]

thanks for sharing this video, been waiting for something like this for a long time.

[@VanceCarolin]

There are better low current can style motors that will fit into that space. In fact, the last run of that loco kit (2001?) came with one. Your mileage may vary.

[@gamepad3173]

Ever thought of covering upgrading both New Bright and Eztec Rolling stock to metal wheels in G scale? it's something that I've been exploring for some time now, and so far I've had luck with the Eztec Boxcars since they work fine with the metal wheels, but it's taking some doing with the New Bright Box cars.

[@Curious_Skeptic]

This makes me so happy! I keep seeing folks talking about how insanely expensive DCC is. Well, you just showed that a DCC is pretty darn easy. I can't imagine a DCC board costs all that much. In fact, I see them pretty inexpensive. Four wires! Adding sound and lights? Seam just a matter of a very inexpensive led prewired for the cab. Sound? I'd love that, but my guess is you could pop that into the roll stock and keep things even cleaner in the loco. Thanks for the video. Just starting out and clueless on DCC. This is great though! I have plenty of old diesels locomotive to try out dcc conversations with. What board did you use?

[@TheDCCGuy]

I think the main limitations of these older locos will be the motor current demand. However there now are a lot of readily available small decoders that can handle 3/4 amp current draw and I’ll be showing a few soon. Sound becomes a problem with something like this shay as there is little space for a decoder much less a speaker. I would go with adding an extra water tender dummy for the speaker and a stay alive and decoder.

[@Curious_Skeptic]

@@TheDCCGuy I'm also thinking that replacement motors are more readily available as well to improve on performance and lower amp draw. If I'm going to pull a loco a part, not beyond just replacing the motor at the same time. I'm still looking to see if 'brushless' are thing in the world of model trains. SO much to learn. Last time I was playing with trains, DCC was literally JUST a thing. Now, I see you can pick up a COMMAND 2000 for like $17.00 USD. A control board for 20-30$ Not sure it's all that simple, but seems it's worth a try. Looking forward to your new videos. I'm just going to sit down and watch at least 2-4 videos of your a day! So much great info! Thanks for sharing.

[@Stanf954]

Good video. I have a 2-6-0 that needs this done.

[@TheDCCGuy]

You can do it!

[@nolanknoepfle8044]

Kadee #27 comes with those screws

[@frankwhittle4364]

Another absolutely awesome video, thank you

[@TheDCCGuy]

Frank you also asked about downloading the CV29 table. It is an image so just click on it with your mouse and drag it to your desktop or use the copy command.

[@markfisher8206]

Let me add my thanks as well Larry very interesting.

[@rjl110919581]

same thing to old HO brass FT diesel unit from 1960 where have O gauge 5 pole open motor which 2.5amps in them and turns into Dcc unit with 4amp decoder for O gauge loco in 1995 from DCC System One made in their day, from Australia

[@mr.shadestrains6033]

Awesome 🚂❤️😎👍

[@ricter591]

Thanks Larry, I Enjoyed it.

[@andrewstevenson5449]

Nice work. Although I noticed it ran very nicely under Ye Olde DC, do you get improved running characteristics/control now it's running on DCC?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Seems to actually run quieter, much smoother with less cogging, and and better slow speed performance.

[@fthornton213]

I am not new to the hobby but am new to DCC and my "stuff" has been packed away for 20 years. The lubrication bit was very helpful. I am an 1860s modeler with a number of Mantua, Bachman, Pocha and Rivarossi 4-4-0 or 2-4-0 locomotives with most having a driveshaft between the loco and tender. Would these be candidates for conversion to DCC (if I can get them properly running again) or are they lost causes (I am not a rich guy, but being retired I am fortunate to have a disposable income for this hobby and really do like the older locos)? Additionally, the motors, particularly in the Mantuas, are quite noisy and heat up very quickly. Two of the Mantuas, that I picked up used, had a headlight installed and the loco gears are extremely noisy. Would there be a correlation or would the plastic gears be worn in these two or do they just need cleaning/lubrication? Finally, about 25 years ago I picked up 3 new Bachman "John Bull" locomotives to be more an anachronism on the layout than anything else (price was extremely right). Would it be possible to convert these to DCC by wiring from the tender to a passenger car? I apologize for all that I have brought up in this post and hope that I have not abused the privilege. Thank you for any assistance that you can provide. Regards.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Those are likely old 3 pole motors like in the Shay. Without seeing them I would bet you’ll have a hard tome finding a decoder small enough with a large enough stall current to power them. I did a video (no. 89) a couple of years ago showing how to measure stall current.

[@Mike__B]

This may be a silly question, but I'm new to the hobby ("for my kid"), but I picked up a bunch of older trains and watching videos it seems fairly straight forward to put these boards in and solder the connections. But my question is this an "all or nothing" thing with locomotives? Meaning do I need to convert all my locomotives to DCC in order to use them on tracks? That's to say can older DC locos run with DCC controller? Or could a DCC loco work with a DC track layout? Mind you I'm not saying work with DCC functionality but could the locos actual work on the track or would I need to swap out (or add a switch) to go between a DC power adapter and a DCC controller when "my kid" wants to play with different trains?

[@TheDCCGuy]

DCC decoders have a feature called analog conversion. That means that when a decoder equipped locos placed on a DC powered track it will operate off DC power. The problem is it takes several volts before the decoder switches over and responds so you have a limited speed range but it will work. Another issue is that if you leave this feature turned on when operating on a DCC layout the loco can get confused by a short on the track and take off at fill speed, somI don’t recommend keeping this feature turned on all the time.

[@michaelklepatzki8068]

Hi Larry, I just joined your channel. I have a question. Can you run a locomotive with a Digitrax decor with a NCE power cab. Thanks Your channel is very informative.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Yes

[@kevinindieart611]

Nice, I've got 2 mdc shays I'm thinking of converting the 2 truck to dcc. It has the newer can motor I assume it's close to the same procedure. I will check the current draw first and double check continuity from frame to motor housing. I did the NWS partial great upgrade years ago. Any other sugestions?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Sounds like you’re on top of it.

[@PaulFotschky]

could you use electric conductive paint to draw a couple of lines to the headlight?

[@TheDCCGuy]

I guess you could try.

[@hamiltonsullivan6563]

With all do respect... you want to re-lube your locomotive gears yearly, and drive wrads/running gear every couple times you operate them because it dries up and you will be running the locomotive raw.

[@UP4014]

I wonder if it is possible to convert an American Flyer HO scale Hudson into a DCC locomotive

[@TheDCCGuy]

Almost anything is possible, but is it practical? If I actually wanted to run this loco regularly I would replace the motor and gears so I would have something much more efficient and reliable. Your American Flyer unit motor probably will need replacing as permanent magnets lose their magnetism over time and become less powerful. Micro-Mark used to sell replacement magnets for old motors, may still. It also likely is an old 3 pole motor that draws over 1 amp. You first need to get it running as smooth as silk then consider converting it.

[@thomascanady1967]

Have you ever tried liquid electrical tape? I use it in my old blue box athearn locomotives when I convert to DCC.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Yes, but I prefer heat shrink tubing, easier to work with and more reliable.

[@lancomedic]

Why does the motor have to be isolated? The decoder is enclosed so it is not touching the frame and the power is still being drawn from the same rail as before so the frame is still energized.

[@TheDCCGuy]

In some older locos the frame was a direct feed from track to the motor. If you then connect a motor feed from the decoder to the motor it will also be connected to track power and go poof!

[@lancomedic]

@@TheDCCGuy Thanks, all I have is old locos.

[@lancomedic]

@@TheDCCGuy Okay, so I think I get it. I am re-motoring my old locos but not converting them for now. So if I isolate the motor now and use a temporary feed from the frame to the motor lead, later I can use that lead to go to the decoder instead when I convert.

[@Ciscokiro]

I tried the same Digitrax decoder but there isn't enough space available. How did you manage to put the decoder in the tender?

[@TheDCCGuy]

I trimmed the plastic covering back to the edge of the circuit board, tucked in all the wires (which I had cut back when making the connections), and then set it in place against the back of the motor.

[@Ciscokiro]

@@TheDCCGuy Thank you very much

[@strobelightaudio]

if no sound from the decoder, what was I hearing? It sounded like engine noise.

[@TheDCCGuy]

I have about 60 sound equipped locos on the layout and I may have forgotten to turn one or more off.

[@michaelangelo4223]

did you forget the pdf file Larry?

[@TheDCCGuy]

No, it’s there.

[@frankwhittle4364]

@@TheDCCGuy Cv29 wont download only one for signals

[@wesjackson7775]

I hate to pick on your video after all the positive comments, but the title of the video is Convert a 40-year-old dc loco to DCC. You didn't do that. The whole video was doing other tasks, and the DCC control unit wiring was done off-screen. I didn't get to see what I thought I would learn.

[@blaineyaboicarlton3329]

Holsome