Converting the UPS battery from lead acid to Li-ion Part 1

[@tedonash2681]

Lessons learned from you guys. Thanks: 1. Add a CC CV charger between the UPS and the Li-ion battery

[@lnxpro]

You should definitely add a BMS with balancing functionality just in case some of the cells go too high or too low over time as you charge / discharge the battery pack.

[@tedonash2681]

Agree, already added a BMS and CC CV module. Video is on the way. Stay tune.

[@tedonash2681]

The BMS is finally here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nIm7eJudq9x2qrM

[@nikhilatyoutube]

if the battery is in parallel no need to add bms, a controlling board is enough

[@vijaydas9747]

why does different charging not required for li cells

[@nopochoclos]

Can you explain me what model of CC CV and why?@@tedonash2681

[@ninja5672]

I dont think those plastic nuts will provide enough tension on the brass stand-off. You want tight connections to avoid extra resistance and heat.

[@GraphicManInnovations]

i really liked the upgrade and the latest tests, however u did not mention anything about the recharging process, i was hoping/waiting for the charging procoes with the meter hocked to see how fast/how full the cells will be, plz lt me know what u ended up to, thanks

[@PiotrK2022]

@Tedo Nash You can't do that like so, becuase PB batteries has different charging characteristic then LiOn... Pb batterries rquires current stabilizatyion and LiOn requires firstly current stabilization until reaches 80% of charge anf the voltage stabilization till the end of the charging process.

[@Newman81964]

Connecting two 12 volt batteries will make it 24 volt. To keep it at 12 volt, you have to connect the two batteries in parallel.

[@Squall4Rinoa]

ups are 24, 36 or 48v depending on battery count in series.

[@marchoekstra1076]

Good idea @Tedo Nash , but how do you want the power to go from the battery to the UPS through the CC-CV charger, when you connect this between the battery and the UPS/e.g. when you power the CC-CV charger with power from the UPS? I ask this because I also was thinking about changing an UPS from lead acid to Lithium-Ion. Until now my idea is that the only option is to charge the battery with a separate charging circuit, and only use the UPS for the load

[@gopallr4211]

Pls send link for buying the unit which will hold liion battery with bms

[@tkermi]

Really weird way of listing the properties of those lead acid batteries. I have never seen that. Typically they state voltage (in this case 12V) and ampere hours (in this case 3,75Ah).

[@garthmccarthy4911]

this is the video I have been waiting for... thanks

[@joaquimcastillaizquierdo783]

This design is from jehu garcia. If you didnt know

[@vk912399]

is it safe ! I mean ups are designed to charge lead acid batteries Would it be ok to charge a lithium ion battery with ups even with bms?

[@Spozinbro]

Ok. But where do I get all those batteries?

[@digdug7090]

all it takes is for ONE of those cells to go too high and overheat and you have a massive fire you wont be able to stop....the case would need to be some serious fireproof material.

[@tedonash2681]

This is true for all the batteries in our laptops. If one gets fire then you can have a fireworks on your knees. Lucky for us this is not happening.

[@digdug7090]

@@tedonash2681 I love the idea of Li-ion battery UPS....Don't get me wrong it works better than any acid battery and will last a really long time...but the Li-ion's need to be branded high quality cells and not Fakes. The pcb modules would need a lot of safety features and I'm just not as trusting with those PCB's unless it's in a fireproof case...but maybe that's my paranoid mental problem lol hahaha. What you used is a lot more batteries than any laptop....whew....In my personal experience I had one battery smoke and melt the cover off a cell phone already...luckily I unplug it before it caught fire

[@tedonash2681]

@@digdug7090 fully agree with you.

[@michaeltomasik1357]

Tedo....nice video...but I have one question..... You didn't say anything about modifying the charging circuit. Lead acid and lIon don't charge the same way....correct? how did you modify the set up for that?

[@tedonash2681]

Thanks for this question @Michael Tomasik . I thought about this and my assumption was that if it does not exceed 29.4 volts this wont be a problem because the UPS is charging with a very low rate. But you question make me read more about the matter and I notice that Lead Acid charger had a mode named "equalisation mode" which may overcharge the batter. This mode is made to balance lead acid batteries when they are in series, as it is in my case. So I will add to the setup CC CV charger between the UPS and the battery - bit.ly/2ZuTdkO

[@marchoekstra1076]

Good idea@@tedonash2681, but how do you want the power to go from the battery to the UPS through the CC-CV charger, when you connect this between the battery and the UPS/e.g. when you power the CC-CV charger with power from the UPS? I ask this because I also was thinking about changing an UPS from lead acid to Lithium-Ion. Until now my idea is that the only option is to charge the battery with a separate charging circuit, and only use the UPS for the load

[@tedonash2681]

Did you test it Michael. I am currently testing the setup and the UPS is not charging over 28 V. I will make a full cycle of charge/discharge under monitoring to see if something wrong will happen.

[@gasgold4real]

@@tedonash2681 please do test it. I am also thinking of converting my UPS battery to Lithium ion batteries too. Thanks. I don't wanna be wrong so I done blow up my house. 😂

[@tedonash2681]

@Michael Tomasik , @Jaami I have tested and added the results on the video description.

[@samiulislamsharan]

how much Ah was it?

[@ahmedsamipc]

Good idea ;) but You have to add BMS because without it these battery will damage.

[@tedonash2681]

Agree. It took a while to come from China but it is finally here. Here you go: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nIm7eJudq9x2qrM

[@sspence65]

NO BMS? FIRE!

[@tedonash2681]

Check the part 2 of this video

[@1977adit]

Does not work when I connect the ups to computer Smoke comes out of ups after some time Also continuous beeps from ups . I installed 12v 15Ah lion battery. There was 12v 7Ah battery lead Acid battery in ups before. Also the lion battary pack I made is using 20Amp 3S Bms

[@ericmarks960]

No BMS??? this is dangerous Greetings from Germany

[@ericmarks960]

Sorry, already seen. is on the way . . .

[@tedonash2681]

@@ericmarks960 Yes, there is a flowed up video where I made some optimizations including BMS : kzbin.info/www/bejne/nIm7eJudq9x2qrM

[@chenrapoport1720]

why not use a 6S BMS? just install the 6S bms and add parallel batteries to make a 6S3P(6 seriase 3 parallel) and that is it.

[@tedonash2681]

The tests I made (kzbin.info/www/bejne/rGe2p2ZmhtF8p5o) showed that the UPS is cutting off the battery around 20.4V which will leave around 30% of the battery unused if I use 6S configuration. I choose 7S in this specific UPS because I can use the cutoff voltage and there will be more power with that configuration. In your case the UPS can be different and 6S can work just fine.

[@bluewaxxx]

@@tedonash2681 im doing the same project with 14v ups project .. but PLEASE dont trust this charger .. i used to charge one 18650 cell with 3.6v wall charger and it cuts the voltage at 3.65 ..but guess what .. it keeps charging at very low amp .. its not a full cut off ..be carefull of that.. one day i forgot the battery on charge the whole day to find it reached 4.57v .. thank god i didnt got fire .. im gona use bms or any tool to make sure it cuts the charge .. and im gona add some other options like volt meter and heat sensor and 12v out put and phone charger output .. this project is very useful.. thank u

[@tedonash2681]

Talal Amari you are 100% correct. I am working on a improvement to add CC-CV charger to be sure that it won’t overcharge and use the charging curve of li-ion battery

[@akshayranjith623]

Hi, Is there any reason why companies are not producing UPS with Lithium Battery instead of lead acid battery? Is there any issues for building large number of units?

[@tedonash2681]

The only reason I can think of is the temperature. Li-Ion batteries doesn't like negative temperatures.

[@PowerScissor]

Because lithium batteries don't like to be charged at 100% for long periods of time. A UPS battery backup keeps batteries charged for years at a time sometimes waiting for a power outage. Lead batteries are best when kept charged at 100%, so that's why they are used. Keeping lithium cells at 100% is also a good way to start a fire eventually.

[@kenwillis9828]

Thanks for the Video. I agree not having sparks when plugged in a good thing! .. Maybe I missed it but did anyone ask what the cost of this conversion was in Dollars? I just replaced 2 of those lead acid batteries (12volt 8AH ) at a cost of $48.00. I"m getting about 3 years of service out of the lead acid and have 3 UPS in my home protecting various section and wonder if a power wall of lipos would be a better way or converting to motor cycle battieries? Safety issues with motor cycle as well as Iipo conversions has kept me from implementing such a conversion... Still $ 48 dollars every year replacing a set of Gel batteries is a pain. Would I get more life in years of service converting to Motorcycle or LI-PO system and how much?

[@tedonash2681]

The most expensive part of this conversion is the Li-ion cells. I am getting them from used laptop batteries and the price for me is around 1 USD per cell (7.2 W) so 28 USD for all the cells in this build. If you don't use the holders and the PCB and you do a pack only with cells and BMS it will go for around 35 USD for 24 volts 8AH. If you are planning to convert the motorcycle battery to Li-ion then consider that you shouldn't use in the minus temperatures

[@kenwillis9828]

@@tedonash2681 Thanks again for posting and responding. I meant use wet cell motorcycle bats in my UPS rather than gel ups batteries. If one could get more years out of the Li-Po setup you showed then it would be worth the conversion : (1) 24volt 8ah Li-Po for (2) 12Volt 8ah gel batteries. I don't run stuff off my UPS. I have a UPS in the event of brown outs and power outages. A Ups gives me time to do a shutdown when needed. Good journeys

[@nelchan2421]

Can I replace a 12V 5Ah battery with a 12V 4.5Ah battery?

[@gopallr4211]

Less no problem but more is problem

[@iflnr978]

exactly what i was wondering about. how good is the sine wave. anyhow, i will watch the follow up video, thanks!

[@tedonash2681]

Yes check the Part 2 video. There are more updates and pitfalls. The UPS is outputting modifies sine wave. I haven’t seen any difference of the wave using lead acid or li-ion battery.

[@Dinesh-Bhardwaj]

hi i am also working on a same project. But i am worried by the battery charger in the ups which is designed for lead acid batteries.

[@tedonash2681]

If you will go to use the USB charger then use LiFePo4 cells as they are compatible with the lead acid charger

[@Dinesh-Bhardwaj]

@@tedonash2681but i already have built the 18650 battery pack for ups, just waiting for the bms to arrive.

[@tedonash2681]

@@Dinesh-Bhardwaj then don't use the integrated charger in the UPS. it does not support constant current - constant voltage that the 18650 needs. I would recommend to use an external charger

[@Dinesh-Bhardwaj]

​@@tedonash2681Hi I have an APC 1500 Va UPS which gives f04 error whenever the charging board is disconnected is a seperate board in the unit.

[@debjit4418]

Absolutely not poasible for apc ups... i have change my battrry with 12 vlt 18mah battery. When battery drain it gives good back up..but during off load when battery charging ups chaging ling get red and tak tak sound comes constantly and chaging light comes to red and green after 8 sec constantly... when battry full charged this apc ups acting like something suspicuous... so i could not run lifepo4 12 volt battery to apc ups ..i need lead acid only...

[@Ghost-lk4lj]

Can I charge the battery inside of the ups using internal charging system??

[@tedonash2681]

Ghost 1 you can but you may damage the batteries, because the charging process of Lead Acid batteries is different than Li-ion. You need CC-CV algorithm of charging.

[@kostassarakinos3062]

The plastic post could melt from heat...on the plus and minus posts...

[@djvali]

Cool

[@MohamedMohamed-o4k5w]

thanks

[@vizkitme7479]

i am looking for that kind pcb v1.3 battery holder id like to buy

[@tedonash2681]

You can choose from different kinds here: bit.ly/2M6Bbl9 . I have assembled mine myself so they aren't with factory quality. I hope that helps.

[@kennethdale9862]

and KABOOOOOOMMM!!! where is your BMS???

[@tedonash2681]

In the part 2 of that video : kzbin.info/www/bejne/nIm7eJudq9x2qrM

[@aryansaryan989]

Super sir.

[@BoostedNW]

where is the BMS lol? U shouldnt be charging 18650's with no BMS

[@johnsmith-ce2tq]

that fan in side it was very loud

[@tuxnoel]

45 Watt bro

[@mitchellsprong2596]

most of the 18650 batteries have 9-12watt hours,putting them in parallel does not change watt hour storage,just voltage

[@maleeshasandeep4666]

Blast😂😂

[@marchoekstra1076]

Good idea @Tedo Nash , but how do you want the power to go from the battery to the UPS through the CC-CV charger, when you connect this between the battery and the UPS/e.g. when you power the CC-CV charger with power from the UPS? I ask this because I also was thinking about changing an UPS from lead acid to Lithium-Ion. Until now my idea is that the only option is to charge the battery with a separate charging circuit, and only use the UPS for the load

[@tedonash2681]

Yes you are right. I tested 2 different CC CV converter and they both need the battery and charger to be connected at the same time. I am now testing the whole setup as it is on the video to see where the cut off voltage is and also the max charging one.

[@tedonash2681]

I have updated the description Marc with the results of the tests I made and a possible solution with CC CV charger. What do you think will it work?