Why traditional Cacio e Pepe is so hard to perfectly execute

[@GraemeTheCracker]

I want to say that I reaaallly appreciate the lack of an intro and no unnecessary filler. Every minute of the video is utilized perfectly.

[@EthanChlebowski]

Thank you! I actually spent an extra couple of days honing down the original script to the most important details for this one, glad to see it helped!

[@foxfire1112]

his intro is the style he starts the video, introducing the video in a stylish way. Such a smart way to not waste space with a repetitive intro but still have a vibe of repetitiveness

[@ravingasian3000]

I also feel like background music added more than usual.

[@delinquense]

No unnecessary filler is right... The emulsifier was very much necessary!

[@GraemeTheCracker]

@@EthanChlebowski Bud, the videos are great! I've been watching your channel for a while now and I'm really happy for your success.

[@s4bombshell]

I have celiac disease and can’t use pasta water the same as everyone else because obviously my pasta is different. I also love cacio e pepe, so I need to find another way to achieve the sauce. Thank you for breaking down the science so I can make this dish reasonably close to authentic without having to add too many ingredients! I’m really grateful! For any super sensitive celiacs out there: some corn starch brands and xanthan gum aren’t safe. Be careful which you choose (Gluten Free Society’s website has a handy breakdown on this) or choose a gf safe alternative like tapioca starch or arrowroot starch.

[@Enhancedlies]

and ALL it took, was for Ethan to properly and clearly explain the food science to make it so obvious WHY the problems occur. That means we actually understand and can therefore apply this tto our own cooing... Great video as usual!

[@thelordraj5412]

I'm almost there were plenty of other adequate and concise info about this recipe since it's a well known problem

[@darcieclements4880]

This is why I watch his stuff even though most of the time it is about foods I am allergic to.

[@eswing2153]

He’s really good at what he does.

[@nathalierebolledo1461]

As someone who almost exclusively consumes food content (since the age of 5 lol)… this episode is probably the single best cooking video I’ve ever watched, ever. This format is everything. You lay out your extensive research SO well and answered every question I didn’t even know I had about cheesy pastas. (Temping the plated pasta? Cmon. So true. Amazing.) Thank you for always keeping it so real. I rly can’t recommend your videos enough- consistently so glad and grateful that I found your channel!!

[@badMiNton21198]

Amen

[@nathangamble125]

I also almost exclusively consume food content, except when someone annoys me, in which case I consume food mildly displeased.

[@MrZacSkellington]

You should also check out "Adam Ragusea" then, he uses a very similar content form, with research and science intermixed with practical vs. industrial food methods mixed to help people form ideas about how they should cook and why multiple methods are right.

[@PnwChillin]

Thank you!!! I’ve been making pasta since I took a cooking class in Italy and my sauces kept getting the rubbery cheese problem. This makes more sense to me now.

[@guiltyzap]

so true. so simple yet so helpful information

[@dantepalazzo]

I thought Ethan couldn’t add anything new after watching Alex, Kenji, Babish and even Luciano himself explaining this technique; but he darn did. Nice work and thanks for sharing with us.

[@conman1395]

Not Another Cooking Show already basically did this video with multiple methods to create the sauce too.

[@FutureCommentary1]

I watched Alex and didn't "get" it. I totally missed Adam's on that one. Ethan nailed the thumbnail to bring me in and see what I didn't "get" about Cacio et Pepe. Edit: "missed" added

[@carlosmartinez3548]

Adam made a cacio e pepe video?? when?

[@ksar98]

Brian Lagerstrom made one too

[@dantepalazzo]

Guys, you’re right: Adam didn’t do one specifically about cacio e pepe, but there’s one about the properties of starch. One that made I video and I forgot to mention is Babish.

[@txikitofandango]

I just want to echo that point at the end: boiling the pasta in as little water as possible, making the pasta water as starchy as possible, helps enlarge the safe zone without added starch, in my experience anyway. And here you don't compromise on flavor

[@frankfurter7260]

Not even my dog can distinguish between a small amount of cornstarch slurry and none. And she has a very sensitive palate. There is no compromise in flavor using the cornstarch slurry. If anything, the flavor is improved because most prefer pasta served warmer than the tepid temperature required with the “traditional method.”

[@JonDeibeljr]

I'd imagine if the version with the starch slurry is good enough for a Michelin star Italian restaurant, it is good enough for me.

[@Konrad111111]

@@JonDeibeljr good point

[@oneb14]

Cornstarch is flavorless.

[@Sugar_Fish]

Starch doesnt have an own flavor, so that's not the point. The point is that you can do it in one pot (I mean two: one for the pasta and one for mixing it with the other ingredients). Cacio e pepe is not a super refined or classy dish, it's something you prepare for your family, sometimes when you have nothing else in the fridge, or you need something easy or fast to make.. Of course in a restaurant the time of serving it's not that short, so the trick of making the sauce apart could be handful. As the other comment says, you don't want to serve a cold pasta dish. Paying attention to the amount of water is actually a good idea for the preparation at home. Just be careful not to use too little water, otherwise the pasta sticks together. Finding the right amount it's just a a matter of experience, there is no trick behind 👋🏻

[@russelnw4530]

Yay. You solve my problem. Another brilliant KZbinr showed “the real” way to make Cacio E Pepe, but I was left dumbstruck when things clumped. While I suspected “heat” was the issue, I was left guessing how to control for it. It is nerve wracking to make at home when it Can fall apart so easily. An Italian restaurant is two blocks from my house - we can get it there, cooked right every time. The mystery is solved and I don’t have to shell out $$$ now to get a perfectly done Cacio e Pepe. I can do it confidently at home now.

[@s1mo]

I think that's the beauty of learning how to cook. Being able to do at home something you'd eat in a restaurant feels awesome Also italian cooking seems easy to master once you get the basics down, so it's a double win

[@SirLancelotized]

I started using cornstarch because I figured the pasta water didn’t have enough because my noodles weren’t fresh. It worked. So, I assumed it was a good guess. But I was somewhat wrong haha. I was ez moding it

[@s1mo]

@@SirLancelotized your guess might have been right If you use *way too much* water, the pasta water is going to have less starch, therefore making it harder to emulsify with the percorino Usually when I make it, the pasta water is a little cloudy, you can't perfectly see what's underneath the surface. But it's really hard to get the ration wrong As long as at the end your water is not clear, you're good

[@simonebaffi9079]

guys i'm italian and you are all wrong goddam it, it's not that hard, why does he fucking boil the Water with the pasta inside it's fucking against the rules

[@macsen55LoneWolf]

Poor deluded person, try it and you'll see what rubbish you get! To learn how to make a real cacio e pepe it takes years of experience and not ridiculous "American-style" things! I strongly advise you to continue going to restaurant and not to chase the recipes of these "pseudo-alchemists" who don't understand a thing about Roman cuisine (euphemism!).

[@edgaralejandro8909]

This guy's videos are perfect! No corny puns, needless jokes, or feels necessary to include 2-second "bloopers" that often clutter other cooking channels. You strike a perfect balance, providing just the right amount of information to keep things engaging and straight to the point. Keep up the exceptional work, Ethan!

[@viridium69]

This video has literally solved all of my problems I've had in the past with cacio e pepe, THANK YOU Ethan! It'd be sick if you did a series, or just videos in general, of troubleshooting common cooking techniques or meals that people might have problems with, it'd be really interesting!

[@bl6628]

As an amateur home cook who has nailed a few, but mostly failed numerous attempts ,at cacio e pepe… the idea that consistency and flavor could be made and kept relatively shelf stable to avoid so many pitfalls with the dish and more easily scale it up for more people is CRAZY. You can’t deny that making it the “proper way” is a testament to the skill of the cook but you also can’t deny that second method is a beautiful thing for making such a wonderful dish more accessible. I will definitely be using this in the future. Thank you ❤

[@jazzy_taste]

This is the explanation I was waiting for! I've had many issues with this recipe, no matter how simple it seems to be. A very big thank you!

[@terry5749]

Right??!!?

[@W4ldgeist]

If you cook the pasta with really, really low amount of water you end up with such a starchy water, that it has a similar effect to the cornstarch solution. It's also way more stable and beginner friendly, reducing the margin for error. Also the pasta cooks faster :D

[@enaszaq3051]

agreed. was a thing i struggled with for years to do with cheese till I started doing that. less water = less cheese to stick together

[@MrProthall]

Or just learn how to cook it... it's REALLY not that difficult..

[@albertoandrade9807]

How do you that with spaghetti

[@W4ldgeist]

@@albertoandrade9807 With a lot of patience. You slowly have to push them into a wide pan. That way you don't need a lot of water and you don't have to break them.

[@claudiotagini]

true... but NOT with every type of sauce. Most old Italian pasta recipe instructed to bring to boil; as much water as possible, exactly in order to reduce the amount of starch 🙂

[@NarutoFreak47]

I'm happy to see that the move across the water hasn't really hindered the end result of your content! I'd probably still watch it even if it did, honestly, but it says a lot about your ability to adapt while also being picky about the places you stay at. Way to go, champ.

[@EthanChlebowski]

Appreciate it! Since I’m not able to release as many while traveling, I’ve been focusing on how I can increase the quality with what videos I am doing!

[@NarutoFreak47]

@@EthanChlebowski Makes sense. Good call! Looking forward to getting a little bit better every time from here on out!

[@killerguppy2988]

Fantastic. I've tried making this dish the traditional way before with about 50% success. I knew about emulsion, so I started sprinkling corn starch in which brought me to about 75%+ success rate. But I really like the idea of pre-mixing the sauce. I agree that you could use this on sooo many delicious things.

[@robertebob]

Thanks. I’ve been wanting to make this for myself. I’ve seen many videos on the subject. Yours is the best and easiest to understand. I really appreciate the food science.

[@EthanChlebowski]

I tried to take a fundamental science based approach with this one, glad it was helpful!

[@TheTeeProd]

He is the best meticulate and his explanations are so on point. Plus the graphics are stylish and minimalistic, he's my go to yt ch

[@renzoramondino3621]

Hello from Roma! I really appreciate your work and I'm glad you like our dish. I'm used to the traditional method, which I execute without heating the pan after putting the sauce; if I need more heat, I place the pan over the pot for a few seconds. A general tip for the pasta (any pasta): the correct order is boil the water - add salt - add pasta - count minutes; if you add the pasta at the beginning, it's going to be too soft.

[@macsen55LoneWolf]

A Renzo ma che romano sei se apprezzi 'sta schifezza. Quanto al "lavoro" che fa il tizio è solo dissacrare un piatto della nostra fantastica tradizione culinaria (e quindi culturale), come fanno sempre gli anglo-sassoni quando cercano inutilmente di imitarci (senza riuscirvi minimamente, vedi la pizza!), e mai ci riusciranno, semplicemente perché dal punto di vista genetico altro non sono che "barbari culinari!".

[@jdolbeer]

One way to address the lowered temperature of the dish over the first 5 minutes is to use a heated dish. Very common in restaurants as well.

[@RCTricking]

I need to see how to heat a plate at home! That's pretty smart

[@farrex0]

@@RCTricking Put the plate on the stove....

[@foulwin9719]

@@RCTricking I just put them in the microwave for 30-45 seconds. I then have warm bowls for soup and warm plates for pasta.

[@jc13781]

put a damp paper towel on as many plates as you want to heat, stack the plates up, and toss them in the microwave. leave them in the microwave until you are ready to start plating. it will obviously need to vary based upon the number of plates and wattage of your microwave so play around with it a bit. Putting a dry plate in the microwave is going to take a long time to warm up and i am not sure its a great idea.

[@marcelobulhoes6180]

There’s an Adam Ragusea video just about warming up plates, and the pros and cons of different methods

[@safrprojects]

If you want the plated food to stay hot for longer you have to reduce heat transfer, and that means *_pre-warming your dishware_* and *_reducing surface area_* That means balling up your pasta into hot bowls instead of spreading it out onto cold plates. I have also always sworn by fresh-made pasta, so the pasta water from that already has a lot of starch in it.

[@carolynzaremba5469]

Good tip.

[@zanakil]

I wanted to add these ideas but you were there doing just that already ^^ good job !

[@sarcastamasta]

What an amazing video. I've never made a successful cacio e pepe and this was my exact problem. I was so discouraged and I can bet that a lot of new home cooks tend to give up after messing seemingly easy recipes like this. Thank you for walking through the science efficiently and helping us understand the issues, it's so appreciated.

[@lathamtk]

This was pretty eye-opening TBH. I like that you explained how the traditional version works scientifically, and then provided an easier, albeit more time consuming alternative. I've made Cacio e pepe maybe ~10 times and the results as you said, were varied. Sometimes I nailed it perfectly, sometimes it clumped up too much into grains. I'll definitely be trying this cheat method next time I'm making Cacio e Pepe.

[@NotaCerealKiller]

I've been making Cacio e Pepe my whole life and I've been watching you for quite a long time as well. Not only is this a great food science video, and a great technique, but it is also one of your best video period. Great pacing, editing, clarity. Just an excellent job across the board.

[@Picklosaurus]

For those bothered by the extra steps of making the gel, you can just mix in a bowl and microwave the mixture and the gel is made very fast. Just yielded incredible results

[@47MandM47]

In my opinion this is your best video yet. I went to school for materials science and that background has given me a whole new appreciation for cooking. Your breakdown of the food science here is absolutely fascinating, and it's going to help me get a lot more consistent with this dish, so thank you!

[@Movies123Online]

I’ve only made cacio e Pepe once. I was hoping for a new favorite when I saw it involved so few ingredients. I wanted it as simple as possible so I used pre grated Parmesan cheese and accidentally used too much water. The texture was so off! So I added more cheese and it was so stringing! Haven’t tried it since. Thank you for discussing the food science behind it! Now I have a few ideas what went wrong. I’m going to try it again. I’ll grate the cheese wedges myself with pecorino and parmigiano reggiano. And I’m going to retry the traditional recipe with a slight tweak. I’m doing to use my slow cook setting on my instant pot to keep the pasta water at 160. I’m excited!

[@marsh3825]

This is an excellent video. I can honestly say that I have mastered making good cacio e pepe, but it came with a lot of heartache, making all the same mistakes Ethan did. I am looking forward to trying the second method and doing some experiments of my own! As a side note: this principal should be applied to ALL pasta making techniques that involve cheese. For example, if you are adding cheese to a red sauce, add it at the end after you have turned off the heat and do a couple tosses with a knob or two of cold butter for an extraordinary and luxurious sauce!

[@evanmeade1501]

This was an excellent video. I've long struggled with roman pastas, especially carbonara. With practice, I was able to mcgyver a strategy for proper emulsification, but it's still inconsistent and I was never sure exactly why a particular thing worked. This has given me so much more insight into these pastas and how to make them. Thank you, I truly believe your videos have the greatest density of practical knowledge out of any channel on KZbin.

[@tonytrimbolijr]

What was the strategy?

[@Alsry1]

@@tonytrimbolijr for carbonara, cook the egg, cheese, pig fat over a double boiler and then just toss with pasta in a cold pan/bowl.

[@burakkose481]

I still can't believe Kenji just blasts his heat while making this dish and yet cook it perfectly fine without any problems

[@abhaybhatt4286]

You can def blast the heat to heat the pasta up nicely for the first servings, but any leftovers in the pan get a little gross in my experience.

[@thischannelisforcommenting5680]

the magic of cornstrach! (and fat)

[@pnourani]

If you do that you just have to keep mixing the pasta vigorously until it emulsifies and then stop.

[@MrNoipe]

@@thischannelisforcommenting5680 Kenji doesn't add any cornstarch to his, cornstarch is unnecessary.

[@frankfurter7260]

@@MrNoipe, good luck making the sauce in advance or for more than 1 or 2 portions w/o it.

[@luismelo7344]

I think this is the 10th video i've seen in days about cacio and pepe, by far the best. Exactly the type of info i was looking for. Did 3 times already in 2 days and all 3 times the cheese came together like the picture on the right. Got my confidence back hahah Video 10/10

[@Faenwolf]

I once used corn starch because I just got cheap pasta that had almost none and the sauce did not come together and I was thinking: well, maybe this helps… it did… and seeing this now made me grin like an idiot. Nice to know it is an „official hack“ widely used. And here I was so proud of myself 😅

[@Paul-tm6lw]

Been liking your vids! Ah my favorite pasta! I will say for those not wanting to make a gel. 1 lb dried pasta : 6 cups water. Cook in wide shallow pan. Most of the water will be absorbed during cooking leaving a bit of super concentrated starchy water for the perfect emulsion. We make cacio e pepe or aglio e olio almost every week.

[@arjun._.bbC6]

I'm sticking to the traditional recipe, but I absolutely love the exploration of the science behind the food. Well explained.

[@macsen55LoneWolf]

This is not science, but sacrilege! Poor Americans!!!

[@RealStuff_oficial]

I've been making cacio e pepe for many years and your video is perfect with regard to the difficulties encountered in making this dish. I tested the recipe with the cornstarch and it really is a lot easier plus the fact that it is scalable. I suggest everyone to adopt this method for a perfect cacio e pepe.

[@katieh9632]

I can’t wait to try this recipe! I’ve got a BS in Food Science and I really enjoy the combination of science and really helpful cooking advice in your videos!

[@bobwaters6770]

Cooking is chemistry. Thank you for this very definitive analysis of how food works in the kitchen. I'll need to listen a few more times to get everything you have done here. Your techniques structure much more than this single recipe. Looking forward to more like this.

[@sammychernikoff6406]

I’ve been struggling with the stringy cheese problem for years when making these kinds of pastas. You’re the best brother!

[@digifanatic]

I attempted Cacio e Pepe the traditional way with a full pound of pasta and a boat load of cheese (weighed out and to a good proportion) at once for my family recently, and 1/4 of the cheese melted and stuck to the pan. It was still good and creamy, but a mess to clean up and I had no idea what I did wrong. I'm so glad I stumbled across this video! You laid out everything so well and I now know what happened to my attempt plus how to fix it and make it better/easier for large amounts. Thank you for this video; I'll be checking out your channel to see what else you tackled.

[@jacobmorgan1438]

YES. I've been making cacio e pepe pretty regularly for the last few years and it's always a dice roll whether it turns out perfect or disgusting. Thank you so much, this is exactly what I've been looking for for so long, but I've never been able to find. I can't thank you enough, man.

[@Californification]

Simply brilliant video. I wasn’t aware of the lower temp limit. I basically finished off the sauce and pasta in a mixing bowl totally off the gas with no heat. The problem there is that it cools down too much by the time I serve. Will try this method. Thanks.

[@Dennis-kd3on]

Wow, I accidentally made my cacio e pepe correctly then, but this guy put it into words! I watched Kenji’s video, and followed him, but cut some steps. One is that I grated the cheese through a wasabi grater because I mistakenly bought it (I still don’t have a proper grater), which grates the cheese super finely. Next because I was lazy, I just turned off the heat after cooking the pasta and just put all the cheese on the hot pasta on my plate, which I didn’t realize reduces the heat greatly. I forgot how I recreated it, because I don’t know that those steps are actually helping with the Cacio e Pepe. This guy efficiently explains the science, so I could recreate it again, thank you!

[@foxinabox5103]

Omg same, another tip i can give is using less water (and it boiled faster as well!). As this will thicken the pasta water, making it easier to not clump.

[@vudi2024]

Loved the video, I learned from it. RE: Cornstarch - I started using the blender method on my own after a couple tries the traditional way; 1) I hated grating and you can go with a really coarse grate when using the blender, and 2) why bother with the cornstarch when you've got pasta? Just as the (16oz) pasta gets al dente I blend the sauce (110g Pecorino, ~1 Tbs olive oil, pepper, and 1c pasta water) with two *noodles (I like to use linguine as my pasta, with thinner pasta you might need more - this works well with the low-starch Barilla. Better pasta, less noodle). The noodles do the same job as the cornstarch: beautiful sauce and you can stop worrying about the temperature.

[@donttouchthisatall]

As a Chemist and cooking enthusiast, i really appreciate you getting into the science of things. So many others just dont explain WHY or HOW something needs to be in order for it to work (worst offenders being cup measurements 😬). Well done 👍!

[@Camerz]

I'm studying to be a chemist (in my final yr) and in one of my classes, we learned about colloids. While watching this, i finally realised why cornstarch can stabilize colloids. I did an experiment recently, about different types of colloidal stabilization. one of them being steric stabilization, which is the stabilization that occurs by adding cornstarch. it gets in the way and protects the colloid from being able to separate. Chemistry is really fun when you can find real world/every day applications of it that explains things

[@ADeadlierSnake]

Brilliant video! Thank you! I cant even count the number of times my cheese got all stringy. I eventually gave up trying to fix it, which was frustrating because I had definitely made it before (w/ the exact same ingredients) where it didnt get all stringy. I never knew it was a temperature issue. So many cooking videos tell you the ingredients but not the technique, so it's really nice seeing a deep dive into a popular yet deceptively complex dish like this.

[@BenjaTheOne]

I always reduce the pasta water in the pan under a rolling boil while the pasta is cooking, that allows me to hugely increase the starch content for the sauce, as well as boiling the cracked peppercorn in the water for more flavour extraction

[@hobbes1887]

That's the best method.

[@s1lv3rr]

@@hobbes1887 That's the only correct method...

[@blackmagick77]

This video is top tier quality. Every bit if it. You hit all the points for me. The high quality food shots, and the in depth science and reasoning behind everything.

[@Pjx1989]

I’m italian and I screw up sooo many cacio e pepe! As you said, cacio e pepe is extreme: 3 ingredients but fracking difficult to do!! Your video is brilliant! I have to say that many romans would turn up their nose if they see you using starch, but at the end of the day pasta water is nothing more than that and you are not altering the taste of the recipe. So kudos!!! And by the way: Luciano is a master! You can’t get wrong following his recipe

[@theleakyhead]

Ethan. I have struggled for YEARS trying to stop my cheese emulsion from clumping!!! Maybe once out of every five tries it would come out creamy and delicious, but the other four it would be a goopy mess, and I could not for the life of me figure out why. Seriously, this video means a LOT to me. For real. I am literally rushing to make myself a plate of pasta as soon as I finish writing this comment. THANK YOU ♥️🍝

[@jointhemasters]

Learning cooking from Ethan is so different than learning from other places I go to. Because by the end not only did I learn how to correctly make the dish, but I learned the science behind why the dish is so hard to make regularly which is something I can apply to other things.

[@basiccarrot413]

This video is superb. I follows many recipes, some works, some dont, and I dont know why. Like there is a trick in making cabonara which is mixing the egg cheese mixture with pasta in a bowl, not in the hot pan, for a creamy result. It’s easy to guess “that’s because of temp”, but why? Now I know why. This video teaches me how to fish, not just giving me a fish. Awesome 🎉

[@philprice6242]

This is incredible, thank you so much! I've got a minor in chemistry, and I've only been cooking for the last 4-5 years now, and when those two things come together it's pure magic!

[@Desolate_life]

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[@Desolate_life]

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[@jeremybrodeur-urbas5216]

Most informative cooking videos on KZbin. You don't get enough appreciation man

[@Parkuman]

This is also super applicable to the sausage garlic broccoli pasta you made with the parm sauce! I've been making it and couldn't figure out for the life of my why sometimes the cheese was separating and turning into a gel. Now I know, its all heat :)

[@macsen55LoneWolf]

??????? Ahahahahahahah!......Ah!

[@JorgePeirano]

This was a game changer for me, thanks! I adapted this to make carbonara and tonight is the first time I was really happy with it. I followed the "king of carbonara" recipe, but I carefully checked the temperature with a laser thermometer. Added a bit of potato starch and the sauce was just perfect.

[@flyerhawk]

This was a great video. I was initially a little chagrined because my partner and I actually did our own experiment using a single pot and the base ingredients and it works well, although not flawlessly. So when I saw you say there was a better method I wanted to see what we could have done better. Turns out we were actually doing something similar. Your method is to use a corn starch slurry. Our method was using as little water as possible to cook the pasta so that the pasta water was very high in starch content. It still had the problem of not scaling superwell since we didn't have a pan that could handle a large volume of pasta with only minimal water.

[@Spitflies]

Awesome video, love how you experimented with all the variables, super informative. Years ago I tried to make an authentic fettuccine Alfredo recipe from a test kitchen video, pretty much the same thing just parmesan and pasta water. Water was way too hot and the cheese turned to goop, tried to add the pasta anyways but I had oversalted the water and the pasta was inedibly salty haha. Pretty sure we ordered a pizza that night.

[@jordanallen3098]

I’m so glad you made this video. I’m a food scientist and still had so many problems with cacio e Pepe and always had to use the cornstarch method. I couldn’t figure out what was wrong with the traditional method, so thank you for sharing this.

[@mrfrantakiller]

Not another cooking show just did this, if people are interested in a complimentary watch.

[@ChaChaWitYa]

Was just thinking that lol

[@yitziyyb]

4 way, Very well done. Would love a Collab

[@CondorSWE]

Love both shows...but Nathan appeals to the scientist in me

[@VileVisionshaunt]

Going to say the same thing.

[@benramos1173]

Learned so much from both!

[@leonardoasciano2787]

If I may whisper a tip for everyone tryin this for the first time…don’t let the past sit on the hot pan, this will likely transfer the heat to the spaghetti and makin them hot, so the result of sticking cheese will apply either way. Instead try to boil before water, so when you pour out the pasta the water will be hot enough to be used to create the cream. You can also prepare the cheese and the pepper during the cookin time of pasta, take the pasta off the water, leavin in a bit of hot water, add back the spaghetti and gently pour the cheese. This way you won’t have to maintain the heat goin, cause of the pan already bein hot, and u use the water stuck in the past to emulsify the cheese directly on the spaghetti. Honestly, the only thing I’d add to the video is to try to use as lower number of passages possible, so to not transfer too much the food around. Btw, wonderful video, I really appreciated it , mostly because of tryin to go deeper, Bravo!

[@starkfish79]

If you want to make cacio e pepe magical, use long pepper in place of tellicherry peppercorns. They were a delicacy in Rome and was likely a pepper originally used in this dish. The flavor is complex and amazing.

[@victoriahollis3454]

Oh yes long pepper is fab in this but another variation I did because I actually ran out of peppercorns is grains of paradise. They are so so good I used them in peppercorn steak once as well.

[@MaZEEZaM]

Thanks for the tip, I have some unusual peppercorns, including the long peppercorn but wasn't sure what to do with it.

[@AnnaMorgenstern]

The traditional method *theoretically* is also creating the sauce out of starch (from the pasta water) and fat (from the separated milk fats of the cheese) but it's not enough of each to make it stable. The cornstarch + oil method ensures that the base of the sauce will form stably, instead of rolling the dice on the perfect heat and ingredient mixdown. We used to do this in the restaurant I worked at, essentially creating a base "pasta roux" that you can use to make lots of different sauces. You can also do this with carbonara. Carbonara has the advantage of already having fat from the guanciale in the pan, so you might not need the olive oil, just a bit of starch added in.

[@jonathancheng5646]

Hey Ethan I don’t usually comment on videos, but love your content! I’ve actually been applying your sodium citrate / Mac and cheese combo for cacio e pepe and it’s pretty fool proof as well. Might be worth a shot if you get the chance!

[@idjtoal]

Right, I was expecting to see that here, not just cornstarch.

[@felisalpinis7357]

I was also thinking Sodium Citrate since that keeps the proteins from tightening up & keeps things emulsified. Sodium Citrate on the first method would likely give good results. I do like the prepared sauce for the second method though. Very convenient!

[@andyr4343]

I worked in a restaurant where the mac and cheese was a hotly debated topic. The head chef was all about sodium citrate, the sous preffered a traditional roux method. I made that cheese sauce many times. Sodium citrate replaces calcium ions that bind protein chains together in the cheese, allowing them to separate more. This makes both melting and emulsifcation of the cheese easier. Using starch to emulsify the cheese is more difficult, and it can be grainy if made with a roux, but I find the texture of the sodium citrate sauce much gluier as it cools down, and the flavour of sodium citrate is quite noticeable with some cheeses, kind of salty and sour. I'd like to try the "foolproof" cacio e pepe recipe with a mac and cheese, it seems very promising

[@s1mo]

hey! I think you should try this for the easiest and best foolproof cacio e pepe: 1) Add the pecorino and the toasted pepper in an immersion blender 2) While the pasta is cooking, add some of it's water into the blender 3) Quickly start mixing for around a minute or until you are hayyp with the consistency The result is a prefectly emulsified cream everytime It also lasts up to a couple of days in the fridge, and if you want to use it again just add water and mix, it'll be as good as when fresh

[@SahandRahmdel]

This was great! This also explains why making the traditional pasta (mostly fettuccine) al burro is so difficult and why it needs technique to be executed perfectly! Thanks!

[@Monchesky]

Thank you Ethan, I made this on the weekend for Mom n Dad. It paired well with the pork tenderloin and asparagus that Dad barbecued. The whole meal was of the calibre that I'd expect from a fine dining restaurant. This method takes a bit more prep work, but the low failure rate and the ability to prep in bulk is worth it. Right now I'm waiting for the water to boil so that I can blanche some spinach for the "upgraded" spinach & garlic recipe.

[@normativesymbiosis3242]

Thanks for this, I think the two most eye opening points are the cheese temperature ranges and the role of starch. Inspired by this, I mixed these advices with one of your earlier videos about cooking pasta in minimal amount of water. As an additional cacio e pepe step, I roast the pepper in the same pan before adding the water. If you add slightly more water than needed, this basically leaves you with some very starchy water that is perfect for cacio e pepe. When the pasta is ready you just take if off the heat, take some of the water to prepare the paste, and just proceed normally. The effects are great, just need to be sure that you don't have too much water in the pan when throwing in the cheese. Thanks!

[@Jdcie]

Hey Ethan, out of curiosity: would sodium citrate help do the same job of the cornstarch in this scenario? I use it all the time to emulsify cheese sauces. Really curious to hear your take.

[@jc13781]

it definitely would in my opinion, i haven't tried it but sodium citrate would definitely address the issue of congealing cheese and making it way more creamy and stable, i think this would also be a lot better for home cooks trying to reduce dishes and steps involved, as you could throw in 1/4 of a white cheese slice in which would have more than enough sodium citrate in it to emulsify the pecorino

[@MaZEEZaM]

As a bit of a fun experiment for you, try adding a small amount of whole egg mayonnaise to the cheese instead of the cornstarch. I've found adding a tiny bit of whole egg mayonnaise to any cheese I'm going to melt, such as plastic (American) cheese on toast, it causes the cheese to become super soft and stretchy. I suspect the binders such as mustard in the mayonnaise have the same effect as the cornstarch.

[@Micg51]

Yes it does. I use it and it looks exactly like this.

[@xomm]

Using tapioca starch (find it in your local Asian supermarket) instead of corn starch also helps the emulsion form easier without needing sodium citrate or xanthan gum. I've also found that tapioca starch-based cheese sauces reheat a lot smoother and don't cake up when chilled.

[@jc13781]

@@xomm if you are going to buy a unique ingredient why not just buy sodium citrate. It is far superior to starches and unless you are using starches for other cooking methods I think it’s the most convenient as well.

[@paulolange3462]

I just needed this explanation. The first time I did this dish It was PERFECT, I couldn't believe that people thought that was difficult. But, that was the only perfect Cacio and Pepe. After that they became all clumsy and stringy and I didn't know why. Thanks a lot, I will try this temperature controlled method to see if really works

[@Walking_the_Dog]

Better method: Heat fresh ground pepper in the frying pan, use a little olive oil if you want, but you don't have to. Add the undercooked pasta with some starchy pasta water and finish cooking it, adding more pasta water as necessary to keep it from burning. When the pasta is finished, remove it from the heat and add the cheese and mix. Add a little more pasta water to get the consistency you want, if necessary. By removing it from the heat before adding the cheese, the cheese won't separate, and you don't have to go through all the extra hassle of the non-traditional method. Part of the joy of recipes like Cacie e Pepe, Pasta al Limone, and Aglio e Olio is that they are quick and easy and can be completed in the time it takes to cook the pasta. Better to learn how to cook them properly than to complicate them with tons of extra time and effort. Unless you like that sort of thing.

[@noktilux4052]

If you start a cooking show, I will be one of the first to subscribe. I am really getting sick of all the chemistry factoids these social-influencer chefs are showing off with. If anything, I want to do the exact opposite and just wing it by feel and experience.

[@Serena-or7sl]

Well, this method basically uses the additional wheat starch from the pasta instead of the corn starch. Which pan do you use? Aluminum or triple layer? The amount of heat you have in the pan is drastically different

[@TheEmeraldBeast135]

The wheat starch from the pasta water is the standard method for any Pasta recipe. He is just refereing to how to do this without alterring the recipe in any complicated way.

[@12peekabooo]

Sure, that’s a more traditional method, but you still have the issue of the cheese coagulating when stirring it into the pasta. That’s what happened to mine when I made it this way.

[@TheEmeraldBeast135]

@@12peekabooo skill issue 💀💀😂

[@J0nes111]

Thanks for researching the temperature window. I might use that in the future to improve my Cacio e Pepe or when I need to cook it for more than four people. However I will not use the second method. Using corn starch for recipes where it was never intended to be used always felt cheap and wrong for me. Yes, for some traditional sauces it's required, but even though it might be taste/odorless, it stil changes the way it feels in my mouth and how it distributes and sticks on my tongue. Here are some things I've learned: - Use less water for the pasta (and NO salt in it ;) ) - Use a decent pasta that doesn't have to be expensive, just make sure it's of a lighter color and has a rough surface - Use freshly grated cheese so it doesn't have non-stick ingredients that might ruin your result - Grate the cheese early on so it gets to room temperature (too cold cheese can cause isssues, too) - Roast the grated pepper with medium heat in the pan (I like to roast it for several minutes until it startens to brown so it adds some really nice roast/earthy flavors) - Continously add water from the pasta to the pan so it thickens up already without doing anything - Pre-Mix the cheese by slowly adding the pasta water until it combines, it doesn't need to be runny at all - After adding the pasta to the pan, especially if you cook larger amounts, mix the pasta while moving the pan off the stove - Only after you see that the pasta isn't releasing steam that much anymore, add the cheese - Try to fold in the pasta on top of the cheese with the cheese being in the center - The less you let the cheese touch your spatula (or whatever you use) and the sides of the pan while it mixes with the pasta, the less likely it is to stick or clump together - Add more pasta water while mixing but make sure the pasta water is not too hot before adding it Yes, Michelin Star restaurants are nice, but keep in mind that the people from Michelin are used to the french high kitchen the most. So they're more likely to object when something isn't done like in France. The traditional method of Cacio e Pepe takes time to master, but so does a proper Sauce Hollandaise (it's done without starch or flower, too). In the end, they have similar requirements. In one, you need to avoid that the egg yolk clumps together, in the other one you need to make sure the cheese doesn't clump together. For both, you can use a pot of hot water to keep the temperature with the steam exactly how you want it to be.

[@aris1956]

As an Italian, it is the first time that I have seen an American explain how to obtain a pasta “Cacio e Pepe” in a scientific way, without making the Pecorino clump together.

[@macsen55LoneWolf]

Se tu sei italiano io sono svizzero oppure non hai mai mangiato una cacio e pepe. Quella fatta da questo tizio è una vera schifezza! Dove si è mai visto l'amido di mais e l'olio d'oliva nella cacio e pepe, cose da pazzi che solo gli americani possono fare. E mi meraviglio che un presunto italiano possa apprezzare una cosa simile che offende la nostra cucina e le nostre fantastiche tradizioni.

[@SoloPerICommenti]

@@macsen55LoneWolf I find it amusing when random Italians appear in the comments acting like they're world class chefs when they're actually totally oblivious of how restaurants actually do it and what are the advantages and disadvantages of each method. Maybe slightly more humble next time?

[@macsen55LoneWolf]

@@SoloPerICommenti I'm sorry for you, but in addition to being Italian, I am an expert and scholar of the traditional cuisine of Central Italy and have been cooking for at least 45 years, scrupulously following the original recipes handed down in some cases for hundreds of years, or published in books now unobtainable. Cooking is not improvisation, but culture and in terms of culinary culture and not only we are the first in the world. After all, we've been eating pasta and pizza for at least two millennia, as evidenced by the archaeological findings of Pompeii and other sites,that's why we don't like the "americanate". It's about time they stopped copying (badly!) our recipes (starting with pizza), desecrating and ruining them, transforming them into something inedible that they call with Italian names! Pure barbarism.

[@WedgeSkyrocket]

​​@@macsen55LoneWolftake a hike. Nobody wants your cultural elitism.

[@ifyouloveChristyouwillobeyhim]

@SoloPerICommenti Aren't you cute, I gues switching the conversation back to English helps you get more ignorant Americans on your side, huh?

[@gpoon49]

I was amazed to watch this, as I have used a similar technique, using a cornstarch slurry cooked into a viscous liquid, to incorporate cheese and make cacio e pepe out of DAY (or more) OLD SPAGHETTI! In Chinese cooking, we use cornstarch frequently, probably more often than in other cuisines, so I figured that it would be useful in simplifying cacio e pepe, too!

[@DarkfireLightice]

I'd like to see you test if you could freeze the premade sauce into portions, I'm not sure if freezing would break down the emulsion or cause any issues once things crystallize, and then I'd be curious if you could just throw a few frozen cubes into a pan and get cooking for quick cacio e pepe any time.

[@underscoreMino]

Was just about to write that, that would be the ultimate meal prep.

[@Raykkie]

That's a problem Ice Cream too has, so making a Cacio e Pepe Ice Cream may stop crystals from breaking things

[@Phil_OG]

someone has to try and tell us

[@honeyloop2746]

You're a legend Ethan! After spending literally hours on KZbin and in the kitchen trying to master this amazing dish that I discovered on my trip to Rome in October, I actually produced a delicious batch. However, it was really really hard and I experienced a lot of coagulation. I got it to work using the traditional method without a thermometer and am kind of proud. I used almost all of the tips you shared though (Pecorino Romano, starchy Italian thick spaghetti, boiling those in less water and using a finer grater for the cheese). My conclusion is the same as Ethan's - try the easier method. It may not be the traditional method - but might as well taste better and more importantly - stay warm until the last bite. Another pro tip - toast the peppercorns before using them.

[@dlevi67]

The real difference is in the scalability. If I were to make this for 6+ people, I'd stabilise it (though I'm more likely to do that for a carbonara, since I don't really like cheese!). Thanks for the tip!

[@pherphick]

Carbonara has cheese, is basically egg yolks and cheese.

[@dlevi67]

@@pherphick Nope. It's basically egg yolks (emulsified in cooking water) and guanciale (or pancetta). Cheese can be added later, or even - in my case - skipped altogether. In any case, even one wants to emulsify the cheese with the yolks, in no way one uses as much cheese as in cacio e pepe, where cheese is the main ingredient.

[@vincentstanley8926]

I love how you explained the science of it! I was wondering why my sauce was so stringy and now it makes sense. I just made it with that buffer temperature in mind and the sauce was actually creamy!

[@TheMinecraftWoodies]

As a foodie + science nerd, honestly I do not think I can find a better video than this one. I normally never write comments but I felt like this video couldn’t go without showing my appreciation. Thanks and keep it up :)

[@MeloSomethin]

Great video, specially the science behind it. Now I do have two things to add (Spoirs: lengthy comment ahead). First off two of the "tips" are more like unwritten "necessities" to the recipe, those being using actual pecorino, and using it at a very very fine grate (think of a snow). Second, there are a few variations to the "traditional method" you showed, in fact it is also just as, if not more, common in Italian households to make an emulsion of the pepper and 2-3 ladles of starchy pasta water in the pan as the pasta cooks, then adding the pasta to the pan only 3-4 minutes after it having been in the water, adding another 1-2 ladles of pasta water. At this point you'd let it cook the rest of the way in the pan, doing so will A) flavor the pasta B) allow the still uncooked pasta to release more starch as you cook it and C) essentially make a reduction with the peppery starchy water, if adding more of the pasta water if it cooks out too fast, also aiding in creamyness. This method is called "Risottatura", esentially cooking the pasta like a risotto. When the pasta is al dente you would then remove the pan from heat, let it sit for no more than 30-45 secs, then either add the grated cheese, or the paste/cheese and water mix while rigorously stirring or tossing the mix. As long as you don't get the heat beyond medium low/medium , you should be good.

[@uncopino]

luciano is great but i have a few tips to make traditional method easier, less prone to error (at least after a few trials) and still hot when on the table. have the pecorino at room tempreature and perfect the technique to the point that you can skip the pan phase. use a super thick kind of spaghetti or, even better, tonnarelli (square section egg noodles, a little lemon zest in the sauce goes a long way in this case) in order to take advantage of the heat retention and just mix it in a slightly heated bowl. and last but not least, and not only for cacio e pepe, pre heat the dishes. stick them in the oven, have them right out of the dishwasher... heat them in some way. it's a day and night difference. i do it this way: i put the oven on 60°C and stick the dishes, the large bowl and the little bowl in it in this order. boil water, pasta in, take the little bowl and make the sauce. take big bowl, strain pasta, mix. take the dishes and serve. never failed. never got cold to the table even for 8 people.

[@jpg1789]

Man I must come here to say you did a great job cracking this Caccio Pepe method. I’m so intrigued to make it and I’m leaving home now to buy the ingredients. I know every single word about the narrow margin for error. I’ve done the traditional method many times with success but I also haven’t done it perfectly or ruined many times so… you are 100% sure about any chance we should grab in order to make this tricky recipe fullproof.

[@Skeleton43]

0:15 this may look like a greasy stringy mess but i'll fight anyone who says this wouldn't taste amazing.

[@MsFeline81]

Thank you so much for this. I kept effing up both my cacio e pepe as well as my traditional Alfredo (cheese + butter + pasta water). Now I have the confidence to try again

[@oneandonlycara]

I highly appreciate those deepdives into why you have do it a certain way It's worth so much more than a simple recipe because you actually learn how to cook instead of doing it Ikea style so to say

[@Manwecaen]

Wow ... the best cacio e pepe video on YT! Thanks a million! Now I understand what went wrong and why on most of my tries. And why it sometimes worked. Splendid!

[@liljagty]

Hey Ethan, just wanted to comment that watching this video helped me understand the basics of pasta so much better than before; even following recipes, I couldn’t get a consistent sauce texture. Now, last night I made up my own recipe for a carbonara as I cooked that I was able to execute nicely. The bits about using starch and temperature to your advantage were huge. Your videos have made me such a better home cook, thank you man!

[@donnymcgahan1158]

"why pepe is so hard.."

[@panagiotiskostakis4679]

This is the most helpful video i have seen in my entire life no joke.

[@MTK2345]

Thanks for the full size explanation! I gave up trying cacio e pepe after like 10 false trials ending up with ugly grey gum on cold pasta with water sauce... I will give it ONE more try with your number two method.

[@Ciaobella123451]

Eye opener. Very concise and to the point, and will definitely make this more often.

[@The_Story_Of_Us]

One of the raddest food science channels on the platform, excellent stuff.

[@pacaluvr7963]

Totally agree 👏

[@leonardoanacadios995]

What frustrated me the most is that I couldn't find the answer to why my caccio & pepe was a failure anywhere. Each video was exactly what I was doing and no one never said anything about temperature! I just gave up. Thank you so much for clarifying this! It's a relief to finally know the answer to this frustration of mine!

[@frederickphelan4810]

Outstanding! One of the best cooking videos I have every seen. I have understood the question you addressed, but had been unable to solve it despite a science background in emulsions. It gives me a lot of ideas of how keep the emulsions stable for other cheese based sauces. Deserves a Vemmy!

[@en2oh]

the first video I watched was good - but one good video does not a subscriber make. You mentioned Cacio e Pepe in the previous video I watched - it's GREAT! You've got a new subscriber! I personally use the wheat starch - but hadn't prepared a cheese sauce with the gelatinized starch.... BRILLIANT! Your food science approach is refreshing. Thanks! Doug

[@janfwagner]

I made cacio e pepe tonight and was careful to avoid it becoming stringy. However, the sauce became a bit too watery in my efforts to make a creamy sauce. It tasted fine but I am far from reaching my goal. I believe the proportions were somehow off between the pasta, water and pecorino. Thank you for the science behind this dish. I shall, try, try again. The second method looks very impressive!

[@gheebuttersnaps5366]

Thanks for the great work once again Ethan. I’m really happy for your success. These videos are so so so helpful.

[@Busterblade20]

Loved the video and the way you explained a complicated topic in an easy-to-understand, entertaining way. I loved that you showed us the science and that you did so many experiments to prove your claims. I love this. Please keep doing this science-focused type of videos.

[@rggfishing5234]

I make C e P all the time. By assembling the dish in a bowl rather than in a hot pan, and by using a smaller amount of water to cook the pasta, there is more starch in the water and less heat and the cheese will not be stringy. A little extra pasta water and a dollop of olive oil prevents sauce from getting tight on the plate. The restaurant method with corn starch makes a lot of sense for commercial or large servings applications. Thanks.

[@vincentglibert7282]

I am impressed! You are really good for an American who is cooking! Very well explained and correct. Great job

[@brongulus2617]

I can't believe I passed this vid up for two weeks bc I never heard of "cacio e pepe". I know from e.g. carbonara of the cheese + pasta water emulsion technique, and I spent FIFTEEN YEARS learning how to fail harder at it and eventually gave up. Or, until about two months ago when drunk-me tried again anyway and for the first time in my whole life it actually worked... only I failed to reproduce that result the next day. Ugh. My dinner plans for tomorrow (jambalaya leftovers from earlier tonight) are hereby postponed (I make fantastic authentic jambalaya, tyvm). I am trying this one, dude. You didn't fail me with parathas which i've made like five times now, nor halal-guys chicken though I improved slightly on your white sauce by adding a little zest from the lemon, i learned to pickle red onions from you, and I'm trying THIS one tomorrow.

[@brongulus2617]

Did it. It went as just as you described, looked much like yours, and OH MY GOD it's good.

[@karolix73]

This video made me not only a better home cook but also a better human being! Thanks for all the knowledge.🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@sethiayushmaan]

Tried this today. Can I just say it has CHANGED THE GAME. Brilliant 👏🏻

[@الفيلسوفأبوفكرالزنديق]

Great video Ethan just few additional points: 1-it's important to note the cheese used to pecorino ROMANO there are other pecorino cheeses with different levels of salt, ageing, melting points..etc 2- broze-cut pasta is better for another reason, it's more textured so the sauce adheres better to the surface. 3- ladeling a tiny bit of pasta water into the pan before you start creaming everything can be a safety measure protecting the cheese from direct heat from the pan. Again amazing work ❤

[@freejack2205]

I'm Italian and this I the best video about Cacio e pepe I've seen so far. Thanks

[@poay]

You really hit the nail on the head with this one. I don't watch all your videos but those that catch my eye have the vibe I'd like to put in my channel if I had one. Informative. Nerdy, not fussy. Nice mood and pace. Subbed.