Copper Versus Lead Core Bullets - How They Work

[@Glimpsedshow]

British shooter here. Been shooting for 22 years. Just wanted to say that i love your channel and the way you explain things. I'm humbled to say that ive already learnt ALOT from your channel. We as shooters and hunters must always be learning.

[@anihtgenga4096]

"Always hunt honest and shoot straight." Words to live by.

[@DennisC-zc2yi]

I shot straight and missed, In turn, I got hit by a curved bullet. - That's life, you need to account for elevation and windage.

[@josephzacharias7992]

Pointing at bullets with another bullet. Flippin sweet

[@paulknight9312]

This guy really knows his trade not a fake he's got a lot of good information

[@RetrieverTrainingAlone]

EXCELLENT! Like you, I've also hunted for 50 years. I live and hunt interior Alaska. I've used all copper bullets for the past decade or so....I like the penetration and exit holes. Exit hole especially for bears which have long hair that wicks up blood. I hand load my .270 Win with 4350 or RL22 and 110-130 gr monoliths like Barnes TTSX and 180gr Barnes TTSX or Nozler E-Tip and 4831 with my .300 H & H Magnum. I use monoliths for tiny Sika Blacktails up to huge bull moose. Each of my rifle shoots a different monolith best, so for best accuracy I try a couple different monoliths in my hand loads.

[@bushcraftnorthof6012]

I find this encouraging for use over in the Northwest Territories! I think I'll try loading some up.

[@scottdierikx2343]

I’m a new shooter, and this video has been one of the most helpful and informative ones I’ve come across. Thanks 🍻

[@user-td1zo3tv9p]

I learned a LOT more about monolithic bullets in this one video than everything I've heard since they came out in the 80's. I have to say that while my Go To projectile for my -06 has been a Sierra 180 grain BT GameKing, I just might have to look into trying those newfangled bullets now for both excellent accuracy as well as on-target terminal performance. Thank you, Sir, for the video. Even if I didn't see it for about a year after you posted it. God Bless.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Thank you H?

[@chiprock2692]

Absolutely excellent information. I loved that you x-sectioned and then had samples of actual bullets through game. Very well done.

[@duggydo]

Great video Ron. Thanks for passing along your considerable knowledge.

[@kurtisb100]

The collection of recovered projectiles and notes about them is the best data I’ve ever seen related to bullet performance in flesh. Almost every other thing I’ve seen on this topic amount to “cool story bro”; just random opinions and no data. Personally, I’ve used cup/core bullets (berger) for years and never had a bad experience, but I’m also very choosy about the shots I take, so that may be more of an anecdote than a data point. Not to mention my sample size is much smaller. I’ve shot everything from deer to moose with them and it’s always worked out, but I really appreciated how you compared the various outcomes with different projectiles. Top notch stuff.

[@paulsimmons5726]

Ron, this was a great video with useful information on picking the correct bullet. The section explaining the all copper bullets was very timely as some jurisdictions are now requiring hunters to use lead free ammo. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience. Take care and be well.

[@duckwacker8720]

Only commiefornia requires them

[@lyndonshryko7352]

Every hunter should watch this video. Lots of good information. I didnt understand bullet construction until i watched this. Well done!

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Thanks Lyndon.

[@Jeff_Seely]

This is what I call full coverage a topic for any experienced level. I really love when you assist the hunter and give him or her the tools to make the best hunting experience. I've been hunting for a really long time and I learned a few things myself. I've always been a fan of the Nosler Partition. Ron, you've really loved a life of hunting and journalism that most of us could easily envy. My 20-year-old daughter has decided to be an outdoor journalist. What basic advice can you give her? God bless and thank you!

[@ronspomer4366]

thank you Jeff. Tell your daughter to be hard working, authentic and honest, and persistent. Don't try to fool anyone and don't sell out for a quick buck. Best of luck.

[@Jeff_Seely]

Thanks for the reply. She's a great young lady and she is all of those things, with a lot of integrity. Her mother and I got blessed. She's actually right here reading your advice and she says, "Thank you very much". May God bless the Spomers...

[@TheGeoling]

Ron, excellent presentation! I too have 50 years of hunting experience, but only more recently have been blessed with the opportunity to hunt (and take 😁) “big game” with a couple of successful elk hunts in New Mexico. I really appreciate the practical information and your efficient delivery of it. This episode is the BEST one I’ve watched yet. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been in deep dissertations about all the fancy gadgets from mud grip tires to camo hats and face paint and I could only think, “if y’all would spend as much effort understanding your bullets and how to put them where it matters” you’ve miss and wound a lot less animals. I have for years, enjoyed great performance from bonded core bullets. The problem with these is twofold for me; Hornady has for some reason decided to indefinitely suspend their Interbond, and the Accubond has gotten ridiculously expensive and now are way more expensive than some good monos. You’ve talked me into trying monolithics! I have hesitated because of my concern that they would not expand enough at lower velocities. I too, believe that with a monolithic, I can drop down a weight (due to the weight retention of these) which will give me more velocity to use in the first place.

[@5000rgb]

Regarding the ballistic coefficient of lead vs non lead, sometimes the longer non lead bullet can have a higher B.C. for the same weight. As you reach the maximum bullet length that a barrel can properly stabilize, the greater density of lead will give a higher B.C. Excellent video, Ron. Thanks for the thorough, concise, and easy to understand information.

[@jeanmorin3247]

No other place to go to get in full perspective of field experience. Thank you, Ron. Brilliant!

[@Quality_Guru]

Left smarter than when I came in.

[@bmonty1915]

Every Ron Spomer video.

[@lando8913]

I left 16:25 older.

[@ivanngamrikeli6789]

Same

[@bope1469]

Right

[@uralbob1]

Always with RSO!

[@warrenlathrop6296]

That was the "executive summary " of bullet design. A great video with a wealth of information clear and concise.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Thank you Warren.

[@thomasholmes9765]

The best practical, nuts~N~bolts video on bullets I've had the pleasure to watch. Thank you

[@Gaumik-c2l]

Great knowledgeable video Ron, here in Eastern Canada i'm a big fan of the Nosler Partition out of my 30-06 for hunting Whitetails, Black Bear and Moose works wonders evrey time! 💥

[@Thecelestial1]

What do you do with the bear you hunt? It seems crazy that people would actually eat it so I thought I’d ask.

[@Gaumik-c2l]

@Colin Miller i definitely eat bear there's nothing like a bear roast cooked in my slow cooker delicious 😋 if ever you want my recipe i'd gladly pass it along!

[@Thecelestial1]

Mike Gaudet yeah man let me know, I’m a new hunter so I’m not even sure what’s good for meat although where I’m at I can hunt bobcat, nutria, squirrel raccoon possum. People really eat all of that??

[@Stephen-uz8dm]

@@Thecelestial1 people est everything but I would strongly advise you to avoid eating possum or racoon or be extremely careful to prepare it properly.

[@jimpalmer4916]

@Celestial bear burgers are as good, if not better than axis burgers 😋 you need to explore your options when it comes to what is not just good, but it's so darn good that it will make you cry, just like the menudo at speedy Gonzales place in El paso does me.

[@markreseburg6451]

I just realized why I enjoy your videos and find the content interesting. You seem to leave opinion by the wayside for the most part and focus more on numbers and data. I like that. Too many you-tubers try to make videos like this but don't really approach it scientifically. They shoot some stuff and sometimes validate their argument with some crazy story, but there is no real content or data behind it. I like the way your brain works. Keep up the good work!

[@jasonbeary8427]

All the informative discussion about monolithic bullets, ballistic coefficients and why the 6.5 Creedmore does what it does is a great opportunity to teach people who otherwise ignored or didn't know about these factors that make for a great rifle. Even though ancient cartridges like the 7X57 and 30-06 are great, what we shoot is getting a century-long update.

[@sethk2203]

Ron, Enjoyed the video regarding the all copper bullets. I started using the Barnes Vor-TX line of ammo about 4 years ago and have not looked back. I now use them in all of my hunting rifles and purchased some recently for a 41 Remington Magnum Ruger Super Black pistol I intend to hunt with this year. They have worked flawlessly on Alabama whitetails even in my smaller caliber rifles like 300 AAC Blackout and 6.5 Grendel. By the way the 6.5 Grendel is a CZ Model 527 and it shot a cloverleaf 3 shot group right out of the box on the first three shots @ 100yds. It has become my favorite whitetail rifle. All bullets recovered were perfect mushrooms with near 100% weight retention as you mentioned.

[@Primer595]

I designed a tubular bullet that allowed a high ballistic co-efficient . It had a good sectional density too which would "buck the wind". It also had vertical slits to allow it to mushroom upon impact. The fact that the weight of such a bullet is distributed at the periphery means that it is gyroscopically stable too. Strangely most cartridge manufacturers do not seem to realise that tubular bullets could give optimum external and good terminal ballistics making them flat shooting, wind bucking and good humane performers. Great video Ron!

[@fruitfarmfords8243]

Ill bite, how does it seal in the barrel? Or is it not a complete tube??

[@Primer595]

@@fruitfarmfords8243 There are three ways to make a tubular bullet seal. If the bullet is contained within a parallel case ,like a 45/70 then a simple rear base wad would suffice to drive the bullet out of the barrel. The bottleneck cased ammunition is more complicated. A rear sabot onto a reduced diameter base allows the bullet to be driven conventionally. The split sabot will blow clear after the spinning bullet exits the muzzle. My own solution includes an internal ball bearing that drives the tubular bullet along and is blown clear on exiting the barrel. In the 1970's the army tried a 50 calibre Browning tubular bullet which did 5000 fps and carried supersonically for greater ranges . I think it was too light on impact for military purposes. A tubular design allows great sectional density so slow loss of velocity, momentum and energy. It can also be driven faster because it is lighter in weight,

[@johnp.etherington8614]

I recommended this Video to a Forensic CSI person in the UK . Very interesting and important information. Thank You for Your research .

[@shanespicer6348]

Ron, thanks for the video. I'm a big fan of Barnes bullets, I have been using them for about 20 years and my children use them and now my grandchildren use them.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Glad the Barnes are working well for you, Shane. My wife and I have been using them in various forms since the early 1990s. I had one box of early .284s that did not work as advertised, i.e. didn't expand. That issue was quickly addressed and resolved by Barnes. No issues since. TSX and TTSX have been excellent. And now I'm getting into the LRX.

[@michaelgrimes83]

I absolutely love the Remington Core Lokt line!! I use it at 150g for my 30-30, 30-06, 308, 7mm mag, 300 Savage and 140g for my 6.5CM!! in the last 20 years I’ve hunted whitetail deer every year and take 6-10 a year and I’ve NEVER had one that didn’t drop within 40-50 yards at the very furthest!!! Normally with a double lung heart shot they drop on the spot (in my experience!!!) but I’ve had them run!! As always thank you so much for your time and sharing your knowledge and experience!!! Just wanted to share my thoughts with you!!! Ive been watching a heck of a lot of your videos lately just stumbled on you on KZbin and gotta say I really enjoy the content!!!

[@shawntailor5485]

Thank God for another 300 savage

[@rockie307]

I've tried lots of different bullets barnes ttsx is my favorite. Deep penetration leaves a good blood trail if needed and the most accurate hunting bullet in most of my hunting rifles. Some guys I hunt with spend thousands a year on hunting gear but buy cheap ammo. Somehow I end up trying to help them track there game with no blood trail up and down hills through swamps with nothing to go on cause there cheap bullet broke up and didn't exit. I just don't understand how people can spend thousands and cheap out on the only thing that kills what there hunting.

[@FreshPwncakez]

Very good point. I have observed the same thing in archery as well, everybody wants this years flagship bow or new spendy gear then stick a cheapo broadhead on a Walmart set of arrows and call it good.

[@HFSIR]

Great video. Old school knowledge with modern scientific facts and data. Really loved this video. Definitely gonna subscribe

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Thanks Lorenzo. Welcome aboard.

[@Shnick]

Don’t forget the Flex tip for tube mag guns, lever actions, etc. They keep the plastic tip advantages and keep the primers from going off in the tube.

[@nature2243]

You're absolutely the best educator Ron! Keep up the good work! Best regards from Sweden!

[@Marcusb338]

Another good bonus of bonded and copper projectiles is if you have to make a follow up Shot. Now I don’t condone shooting animals up the rear but if you put a poorly placed shot the first time, sometimes the only follow up shot you’ll get if from behind. With a bonded projectile you know for sure the projectile will punch far enough to hit vitals. With a cup and core you can’t be sure, it could penetrate 12 inches and not make any vitals

[@brianklamer3328]

Really enjoyed this video. I don't shoot many all copper bullets but now know that if I do hunt with them, shoot within ranges with highest velocity to maintain proper expansion. Thanks for the heads up on this.

[@johnoltrogge6333]

Possibly the most informative of all your videos! Great job! In 2017 I saw something that I would have sworn would never happen with a 165gr Barnes TSX from my 300 WSM. A friend shot a large 6x7 bull elk slightly quartering to, but almost broadside two times at 320 yards. The bull laid down briefly, but then got up and traveled approximately 150 yards before dropping for good. There was no blood where he initially laid down, nor along his trail that I was able to follow through disrupted pine needles on the forest floor. Both bullets impacted within three inches of each other, penetrating the back half of the on-side front shoulder and ranging through to just behind the off side shoulder. Both bullets failed to exit and were just under the skin on the off side, each beautifully mushroomed with all petals intact. Upon examination, we found a lot of hair packed inside the curl of each bullets petals. This particular bull elk had the longest winter coat of any elk that I've ever seen and my assumption was that the extremely long hair had initiated bullet expansion before entering the elk's body, which also could explain why there was no exit and absolutely zero blood, even around the entrance wounds. While that same bullet has performed wonderfully for me all other times, I think this case just shows that we should never assume anything and to be ready for follow-up shots, even when we are confident of bullet placement and the bullets 'normal' performance.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Yes. Trusting every bullet to perform perfectly every time is not wise. Always be ready to administer finishing shots, or, as many elk guides say, keep shooting until its dead! I've found that, in general, all animals remain conscious for several seconds after solid heart/lung shots. It isn't until blood pressure drops that they get dizzy and fall. And then, of course, it takes roughly 10 min. for brain cells to die from oxygen deprivation.

[@jasonbroom7147]

That was a great, detailed video explaining the various differences and trade-offs between conventional lead core bullets and the all copper, monolithic options. A couple of things not mentioned are the higher cost of the all copper bullets, and the potential for greater accuracy with lead-core bullets, where more of the weight is toward the rear of the projectile. Something I have long wished for is a bullet that is much like the Nosler Partition, where a solid copper bullet has had the shank filled with lead. This would make the projectile heavier in the rear, increase the sectional density for any given length of bullet, and otherwise provide all of the key advantages of both bullet types.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

The discontinued Winchester XP3 bullet had lead filled shank, hollow copper nose just as you describe. Barnes had an MRX like that, but with tungsten in shank. Talk about heavy! Seems to me there were or are others, but I'm drawing a blank from the memory bank at the moment. Anyone? Didsn't Federal have a hollow nose copper bullet with a lead shank once?

[@jasonbroom7147]

@@RonSpomerOutdoors -- It seems to me like these would be ideal bullets. Were they not as good as I would think, or are they just too expensive?

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

@@jasonbroom7147 The XP3s were indeed a great bullet. But sales were low due to high prices. Most hunters go with the cheapest ammo they can find so they have sufficient funds left over for beer. (Only half kidding.)

[@MrGS53]

This was helpful to me. I’ve hunted in the past. But always with others’ gear. Now I can make a more informed choice regarding what bullet to choose.

[@andersonwitherell5104]

I really like the way you present this information. Great video, I’ll be watching more from your channel. Thank you

[@johnkaraphillis754]

Great informative video. Real nice trophies on the wall, but I’ll take the whitetail in the picture! Thanks Ron!

[@TSRThom]

15 minutes that explained all the important facts. Thank you you very much. Ron Spomer knows what he is talking about Greetings from Germany

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Thanks and wei gehts, as grandpa used to say.

[@kennethlutz4337]

I have to push back a little bit on the bullet doing “ all the work “ barrel& powder carries its weight too ! Love the show!

[@jonathonlang1844]

Ive had issues with picking lead fragments out of game meat in the kitchen so these copper bullets seem like a win. I like to see all the detail about performance. Made the switch over seem like a no brainer. Thanks for the insight Ron.

[@chrisgodfrey2846]

Been listening to your videos and podcast religiously this week. Every firearm geek needs to listen to these! Lol

[@sammylacks4937]

Thanks for all your advice. It has been so nice to learn from experts like yourself, Jack O'Conner and Carmichael.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Thank you, Sam. You are welcome.

[@Sam_the_Sham_and_the_Pharoahs]

Love the video. I too pondered the whole "should the bullet pass through or should it stay in the animal" theory and originally I felt that it would be good to have the bullet stop in the animal. But the more I hunted I realized that having an animal have two holes to bleed from usually meant an easier track and quicker bleed out. Plus if it's not getting good penetration, a hit through bone might not get deep enough for vitals. There's a sweet spot with just about everything. Too much is too much and too little, not enough. I think thats why having game appropriate calibers are important. Absolutely love it Ron, keep it up.

[@MrRufusjax]

Wow. Great video. This guy knows his stuff. I learned a lot.

[@guardianminifarm8005]

Thank you Ron. Appreciate the experience & perspective.

[@tlloyd9325]

Great video! Thank you very much. What I could never understand, yes Barnes bullets are expensive, is; the CHEAPEST yet most IMPORTANT part of a hunt is the bullet you send down range. I mean we all spend lot’s of $$$ on places to hunt, clothing, boots, calls, and so many other things, why would you bargain hunt for ammunition? It doesn’t make any sense.

[@kyles4560]

Got to love Ron’s educational videos. Always a good watch. And great info!

[@solotechoregon]

Great overview of alot of factors, thank you!

[@darrylpacholko5495]

Federal fusion are a bonded bullet with a lead core. For my guns they are on average 65 to 70 percent of the cost of Barnes or Nosler.

[@Gearhead-ln8uh]

My Ruger American .270 shoots the Federal Power-Shok all copper really well. I was very impressed with them compared to the lead core that I’ve always used.

[@georgecruz6226]

Very informative Ron! Thank you!

[@chriswimberly8060]

Very well thought out and knowledgeable video. Be blessed sir

[@klausroethel5961]

Fantastic presentation ! Hats 🎩off to you Ron, and greetings from British Columbia the Serengeti of North America!

[@kentuckywindage222]

Outstanding! Like with most things the right tools for the job makes all the difference. Nice video! Keep'em coming!

[@bradenstuart4074]

So would you suggest a Nosler Ballistic Tip 150gr for South Texas Whitetail deer? I want to ensure that I get proper expansion to put a deer down effectively.

[@shurt6312]

Well done Ron. The only time I ever use lead bullets is in a rimfire. Copper outperforms jacketed lead in centrefire hands down. Been using them professionally for more than 20 years. If copper bullets had been developed first, jacketed lead would never have got a start. The most important thing to remember is to get the twist right, and everything else will fall into place.

[@chrisgauthier669]

Got my first deer this year and i was able to recover the bullet. I used the cheap herters hunting ammo and the lead core separated from the jacket. Didnt seem to matter as it was a heart shot amd he dropped where he stood. (Probably helps that he was only 15 yards away)

[@kieranh2005]

Good for you.

[@scottrussell6717]

Bought a new 243 couple months ago... finally got to try loads few weeks ago... found the gmx and h335 was best with a clover leaf... done a lot of research and was keen on switching to all copper.. I have hunted over 25 years with lead/copper.. I figured try the gmx and see how they do on deer this fall

[@eliinthewolverinestate6729]

I like a through shot. Like a close shot from my bow. Lot of great info. I like the softer lead in muzzle loader bullets or in wad cutters. I have tried brass balls in the muzzle loader. I will be trying some copper bullets in the 308 150 grain. Great video.

[@TheMaineiacguy]

Man I've got to say you're like a prophet of the shooting world.Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom, knowledge,and lifetime accumulation of experience with us.I always take so much away from your videos. When I was a teenager I used to love reading columns from Colonel Jeff Cooper and I must say after listening to your wisdom bombs time and time again I feel very much like I did back then reading his columns so thank you again and please keep up the excellent work!

[@ronspomer4366]

Thank you Maineiacguy.

[@AbBowhunter]

Thanks Ron, a good breakdown of the different bullet types. Years ago a good friend of mine got me on to the Barnes TSX bullets. I am mainly hunting white-tailed deer, but I found from my 7mm-08 that the performance on whitetails seemed to vary a lot. At times the deer would immediately drop, but most often they would run afterwards a fair ways. I heard that the TSX bullets were better suited to larger framed game, and that they may not have been expanding fully on white-tails to sufficiently dump the energy. Is there any merit to this claim? The main reason I switched away from them however was due to accuracy. I have not tried them again in that rifle for a long time, but I did load up some of the 100 grain TTSXs for my .257 Wby Mag, and they were the most accurate bullet I tested from that rifle. Right now I’m shooting Nosler Accubonds for everything, which I like. They are accurate and dependable. But I’m always game to try something different.

[@ReelinTension]

I’m a accubonds fan as well. Love the 110s in my 257

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

There is some merit to that claim, Aubrey, just as there is merit to some claims that (choose your bullet) sometimes "fails" because it didn't open or opened too much or... Notice the video clip of the Barnes bullet opening after passing through that apple, which is a bit smaller and lighter than a whitetail. But it has high water content. This created hydraulic pressure that forces open the hollow nose. Does this always happen on game? No. Perhaps some dirt or mud on the hide got in the nose cavity first. Perhaps the lungs were too insubstantial to initiate expansion. Perhaps... who knows. I have experienced it all with Barnes TSX, but the vast majority of times every Barnes bullet from the original X to TSX to TTSX have expanded well and terminated the target animal quickly. Some instantly, some after the usual short run (until blood pressure drops.) In the Dark Ages (1995) I fired 12 Barnes X bullets at 12 African animals sized from tiny steenbuck and duiker to kudu and eland. Each one expired. I did fire two more bullets as finishers on two as they lay expiring at our feet, but they were essentially done from the first hits. Now when I show up in Africa with Barnes the PHs (guides) say things like "Excellent. It's like a soft point and solid on one bullet." Can I guarantee every Barnes bullet will perform perfectly? NO. But I can't promise perfect performance from any bullet. Just too many variables with game. A big part of being a hunter is knowing how to track, and Barnes bullets generally punch through to leave a better blood trail for that.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Aubrey, in my answer I forgot to address your "dump the energy" question. Energy dump contributes little or nothing. Bow hunters know this. So do poachers who take deer with 22 rimfires. Energy beyond that required to expand the bullet (for more surface area to rip and tear vital tissue) and penetrate to/through maximum tissue (for increased hemorrhaging) is superfluous. The kinetic energy carried by the bullet is absorbed and dissipated by the animal's tissues. You've probably seen this in slow motion videos of game being hit. You see the flexing, warping, etc. of the body. And often the struck animal runs off. Normal stuff. A bigger wallop doesn't matter. I've had many coyotes absorb a 7mm Rem. Mag., 300 Win. Mag. and run off 20 to 40 yards before expiring. I've had 80-pound warthogs take three 300-grain 45-70s slugs from inside 50 yards and continue running until blood pressure dropped. The whump just isn't what many of us imagine it should be.

[@AbBowhunter]

@@RonSpomerOutdoors Thank you Ron! Your input as a man with much hunting experience is greatly appreciated. I especially loved in your video how you kept all the various recovered bullets from different hunts, what a great idea. Yes I agree, as I lifelong bowhunter myself - my goal when I am hunting with my bow is to get that arrow to pass completely through the animal. It increases the tissue damage done as well as the chance of recovery should the shot be less than perfect. Over the years I have adjusted what I use in terms of arrows and broadheads in order to maximize the chance of getting a pass through, and doing so when conditions are less than ideal (like hitting bone or the animal stepping or turning). Now with this in mind, this gives me a different perspective on how I should expect bullets to perform, in that what I want to achieve in either scenario is quick kills and recovered game. I have noticed with the Accubond bullets as well, only once did the deer almost drop immediately. The rest of the time the deer still did travel some distance. So all in all, not much different from how the Barnes bullets performed when I used them years ago. Another thing you mentioned was about bullet length and the rifling twist needed to stabilize the longer bullets. This got me thinking if this is perhaps what was causing the accuracy issues I experienced previously with my 7mm-08. Currently I am loading the 150 grain AB long range as the regular 140 grainers were impossible to find in my area for a while. The 150s do ok but don't group as tight as the 140s did - but I don't know if the 140 grain TSXs are the same length or longer than the 150 grain ABLRs. Now I am even more interested in trying out some of the 120 grain TTSXs to see how they will shoot! I will have to do some more digging and experimenting. But this is a part of why I love hunting and shooting so much, there is always more I can learn. Thank you again.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

@@AbBowhunter You are thinking this through nicely, Aubrey. I find it curious that many rifle hunters think that broadheads and bullets kill differently, meaning that broadheads slice to create hemorrhaging, but bullets supposedly deliver some kind of knockout punch. But in this age of video we've all seen plenty of animals absorb 3,000 to 4,000 foot-pounds of bullet energy applied to the vital organs and run for several seconds before succumbing. Then, as blood pressure drops, so does the game. Bullets kill by hemorrhaging, too unless they strike the central nervous system from the withers forward. But the same thing happens when a broadhead hits the CNS. The confusion for many is this still unproven "hydrostatic," more accurately "hydrodynamic," effect in which a lung-shot animal flops over dead on the spot. Some insist this isn't shock, but another theory is that energy transfer via the blood circulatory system breaks vessels in the brain causing, in effect, a stroke. But this can happen as easily, if not more easily, with application of a frangible "varmint" style bullet at high velocity than a larger, heavier "dangerous game" bullet like a 400-grain at 2,200 to 2,400 fps. Many have their theories about "shock" kills, but I'm still looking for documented, scientific explanations for that phenomenon. In the meantime, I'll continue to depend on bullets that maximize hemorrhaging of vital tissues -- and blood trailing. Thanks for your observations, Aubrey.

[@lonelybikr]

Thanks for taking the time and sharing.

[@beeamerica5024]

Always loved the Remington 130 grain long-range boat tail bullet

[@myronriggs9613]

I learned something new today... good video

[@R3N0T3]

Excellent video and demonstration very informative!! Thank you for your effort

[@lukejolley8354]

This is amazing, I’ve been wondering about all this stuff and there it is on screen!

[@TheWVgoodguy22]

I was suggested to try some Barnes TTSX 150 grain bullets for my .300 WSM, when I asked a question on a forum about reloading for my new rifle. I know most people suggest to go light for caliber when using monolithic bullets. I have those bullets, but haven't reloaded with them yet since I know it is different than reloading regular lead core type bullets. I also thought about the Hammer bullets, not sure if you have heard of them. They are a custom bullet company, not one of the big name brands. I found that the 180 GMX from Hornady in their Outfitter line shot really well out of my Savage M110 Long Range Hunter, even though that is not light for caliber, but on the higher end (200 grain probably being the max like the ELD-Xs that I have for the .300 WSM, not the regular Win Mag). Thanks for your through overview of many bullet types and shapes there Sir.

[@Nick-sx6jm]

Yeah I would not recommend the barnes tttsx bullets because I have had nothing but bad luck with them. I have loaded a 160 ttsx in a 340 wby mag for bear and after I shot a nice one it bled for 400 yards then crossed a river never to be found. Last year I shot a buck with a .257 wby mag at 325 quartering away and spent 3 hours looking until I stumbled upon it. I have had 4 times where this sort of thing happened where the bullet just doesn't expand and it ends up with almost no blood and the animal running a long ways before dying.

[@mattotto2380]

@@Nick-sx6jm I tried TTSX 150 gr in .30-06 this fall and very happy with the results on 3 large Wisconsin whitetail does . All pass throughs with no or short tracking. Hope to try in my 7mm-08, if I can find any.

[@aaronwilcox6417]

You did a good job explaining this in the video

[@sebastianhabel7312]

I just learned a lot, thanks for the video!

[@markphillips9454]

I learned a ton. Thank you 👍🏻

[@danielfisher9344]

Great video Ron. I'm planning an elk hunt with my .35 Whelen. Looking at the 180 grain Barnes. Is that heavy enough to fully pierce an elk out to moderate ranges (200-250 yards)?? Thanks, Daniel

[@TheGeoling]

Yes

[@markschnittker4770]

Really well put together video. Thanks! In CA, we use copper by law. Love it! Had to go to lighter bullet since heavy copper bullet was too long to stabilize and grouped poor, but with copper, ight is OK since penetration is way better than lead. Copper allowed me to down size my rifle.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Your copper experiences match mine, Mark.

[@80aussiepride08]

Bloody excellent video mate !

[@stevepoetzl6689]

Great info and short enough to watch in a busy day. Thank you.

[@fabiomoroldo2687]

Hi Ron , thanks for all the great info . I use barnes ttsx out of my 30-06 and 270 and love them , recently purchased a 243 , i can only find 80 grain ttsx , do you think it will be ok for impala and warthogs here in south Africa?

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Fabio, that 80-gr. TTSX should be dynamite on impala and warthogs. Penetrates as well as most if not all 100-gr. lead core bullets. My friend George and I use it a lot on whitetails.

[@savvylifestrategies9445]

Excellent overview, Ron. Thank you :-)

[@bbhrdzaz]

I like it, speaks from experience and backs it with evidence.

[@bastabbiswas3885]

Learnt a huge lot. Thank you so much

[@markhirstwood4190]

Great vid as always, but in this one, you really needed a lavalier mic!

[@jeremiahthompson43]

Hello Ron, I always enjoy watching your videos. I know you are fond of copper bullets. Which I think is awesome. I know it's not your channel, but I would encourage you to watch Meat Eater Copper vs. Lead bullets. It is really worth watching. They compare the copper, bonded lead bullet, and a cup in core bullet in the same cartridge for a fair comparison. I think you would enjoy seeing that. It is informative also. Anyway I saw this and wanted you to check that out. It kinda takes the arguments out of things. Thanks Ron, always a pleasure to watch you.

[@bradmcabee8041]

I really enjoy your videos and channel. Very Informative!

[@TheDeathsmarch]

What was the bonded .224 bullet? Looked like it performed well. I hunt with .22 centerfires a lot.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Can't recall the one you're referencing, but probably a Swift Scirocco.

[@robbiek5oh]

Ron, how did you section those bullets? I’d like to section a few myself to compare jacket thickness. Thanks for the video.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Machine shop mill.

[@tdb922f]

Or if you're patient, just hold it across soft jaws in a vice and use a file. Finish it with emery cloth and then on a stone. Even when most of the material is milled off, that's how I finish them, mostly because my mill is a bit cheap and wobbly!

[@mattfoertsch7416]

Incredible video, very well done, thank you sir

[@Clearanceman2]

Amazing how crappy the audio is vs. now where is his stuff is 100% professional. You've come a long way, Ron!

[@thatsmrharley2u2]

Hey Ron...love your videos~ I have a Winchester Model 1892 made in 1896 and was told I should shoot ONLY pure lead bullets through it, and NOT copper or copper cased or alloy bullets. Can you weigh in on this for me?

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Hugh, jacketed bullets (copper or gilding metal of 90-95% copper alloyed with 5-10% zinc) were invented in 1882 and quickly adopted to minimize or eliminate the significant problem of lead stripping in barrels. I've never heard of any problems arising from shooting modern, jacketed bullets in an 1892 Winchester of any vintage. Hornady, for instance, sells jacketed bullets for the 25-20, 32-20, 44-40 and posts no warning against using them in any old rifles thus chambered. Speer builds jacketed bullets for the 25-20 Winchester and posts no warnings against using them in any M1892. More significantly, Winchester and Remington factory-loaded ammo for the 25-20 and 44-40 featuring jacketed bullets. Solid steel bullets might be a bad idea, but gilding metal and copper jacketed bullets? Concerns about hard bullets in older firearms revolve around pressure concerns. Many older rounds were loaded to low pressure standards that can be exceeded with modern, high-energy powders, and this could cause problems with weaker actions or barrels, but strong, high quality fluid steel barrels were already common on rifles in the 1890s.

[@shawnwells5719]

You should have no problem using copper plated swaged lead bullets - they don't cause significantly more bore wear than lead. I use them in my First Generation Colt Single Action Army, made in 1884. Colt SAAs before 1902 are black powder only. Gilding metal jackets will cause more bore wear than lead or copper plated lead, plus they are way more expensive. At black powder velocities, jackets provide very little, if any, advantages. Jacketed bullet smokeless 44-40 ammo is completely safe in a Winchester 1892 (my modern 1892 clone will easily handle 40,000 psi), but shouldn't be used in black powder only guns, even when the pressures are equivalent to black powder loads. The pressure curves of the two propellants are completely different, and more than one fine old Colt has met its demise shooting 'safe' modern ammo. As far as 'hard' bullets go, they actually can produce less pressure with equivalent charges than soft, swaged lead core bullets. The hard bullets don't upset as fully in the rifling, forming a less perfect bore seal than softer cored bullets, even though the resistance to the lands is greater.

[@RT-gv6us]

I fought against monolithic bullets like the Barnes TSX and TTSX for years. When I finally fell for them, I fell hard. I use the Barnes and animals that I have shot have all had massive terminal damage and complete pass throughs. For example: the Barnes 110g TTSX out of a Tikka 270 at 3410 FPS gives complete pass through but it looks like a bomb went off inside the Whitetail. I still use lead core bullets for predator hunting but prefer the all copper for big game.

[@chipsterb4946]

Excellent, informative presentation.

[@A1_wavez]

Have you harvested any animals with fluted copper bullets like the extreme penitrator? Do they work well?

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

I'm not familiar with the Extreme Penetrator, but my extensive experience with Barnes X, MRX, TSX, and TTSX have convinced me they are consistent performers. I would expect a similar all copper design to work well, too, whether engineered to stay in one piece with expanded petals or break into 3 or more large fragments.

[@danietkissenle]

I have been educating my self on this subject recently, and have decided to just stay from bullets like ballistic tip type bullets as well as burger type bullets and I'm gonna stick with bonded soft points, copper and partition type bullets

[@jonmeray713]

danietkissenle all have their uses though

[@romeosgenericchannel3971]

Cant believe i didnt know about your channel!! So glad i stumbled across ya! Amazing information and content! Thanks for sharing with us! Have a good one!

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Thanks Roman. Happy to have you aboard.

[@michaelm9211]

I know that Winchester just came out with the 21 sharp, but I wish they would release a new purpose built copper bullet cartridge and gun specifically for whitetail. I think I would be more willing to switch to a completely new platform rather than change the bullets in my tried and tested guns I own now. Honestly having less lead in my game meat that I am eating is a compelling reason to switch. I just wish the copper would expand into the lands and grooves better, and that the monolithic copper wasn’t an accuracy concern when switching from guilding metal on lead core bullets. I know that you have shown cleaning the copper out of the bore can fix that, but I am not confident enough in my gun cleaning to know that I got it all cleaned out. Thank you for this video Ron. I appreciate it.

[@jerrodladner3019]

Ron. How do you feel about the core lokt bullet for 30-06?

[@jimmycampbell6232]

What would you suggest for thicket hunting with a 30-30 or 35 caliber?

[@malachiwhite356]

In 35 Remington, I would try a 200 grain slugs from one of the lesser-known manufacturers, e.g., Core-Bon. It has been my experience that the bullets from Remington and others do not reach advertised velocities and lack expansion for that reason.

[@skylersmall6322]

I did not know density factored into BC I always assumed it was the length and shape of the bullet, I had thought copper bullets being larger for the same weight had higher BC but I guess I learned something there. Thanks!

[@neglectfulsausage7689]

crumble some paper into an orange sized ball and wrap it in plastic wrap so its exterior is smooth. grab an orange of equal size. Throw them both as hard as you can and measure which one goes farther.

[@RandyMan388]

Great video Ron. I hope you have a wonderful hunting season this year. Take care

[@tlloyd9325]

Great presentation from a very knowledgeable hunter.

[@davemiller4852]

Ive switched to all copper in my 308 and starting to think about it in my 30.06. All other statistics aside, if I shoot nothing but copper, will I or should I clean my barrel more often?

[@soldisnake5023]

Great explanations and I learned about the partitioned bullets, thanks.