Origins: Why does God allow Evil?

[@thomasdevlin5825]

I honestly don't understand how anybody can take arguments like this seriously, god allows suffering because thousands of years ago two people ate from a tree god told them not to eat from, and that's somehow supposed to convince me it's not actually god's fault the world is such a violent place? If eating an apple from the tree of knowledge is so unforgivably terrible that doing it once will cause everything in the universe to suffer for it till the end of time, than why couldn't god have put a damn fence around it, or at least a steep hill, literally anything more than a stern warning to keep someone from getting near it? why would something that ridiculous even exist in the first place? God sets up a perfect creation, but leaves an easily accessible way for anybody at any point to ruin the entire thing, it's as if god was begging for the entire system to fall apart, it doesn't make any sense, kinda like the entire story is just some ad hoc explanation for suffering that had zero effort put into it

[@iexist1300]

Also don't forget God knew that they would eat the fruit.

[@ibperson7765]

I actually agree with you. And believe in God.

[@jorwegs]

Definitely valid question with not a simple answer but i think part of it is it is the only way to have real love, to have the capacity to choose the right thing to do out of love vs being kept and controlled from not doing things otherwise we just robots, the point isn't really that the fruit (not an apple specifically) itself brought suffering, maybe so, but it was the deliberate unloving choice that man made, it was simple really, but man chose to be their own determiners of right and wrong and that hurt God, perhaps He knew but also God can choose to not know things and forget things, as we believe in Christ God forgets our sins we become clean in his eyes

[@robertbrown569]

OK, so because two newly-created people ate a fruit they'd been told to avoid - and they did so before they had learned the difference between right and wrong - their all-loving father kicked them out of their home, cursed them and all of their descendants, created hurricanes, volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, parasites, plagues, painful childbirth and cancer to torment them throughout all of time and created an eternal torture world for them to burn alive in after they died. How could you possibly doubt how all-loving this god is? But if only you'd told every scientist in history not to bother discovering plate tectonics, microbiology and meteorology, because it's all just about "sin" then you could have saved rational humans a whole lot of effort, and we could still happily be living in caves and burning goats alive to please good old Jehovah.

[@timeshark8727]

So... by "answering the question" you really meant sidestepping the question and making assertions that have no actual basis in your scripture and rely on twisting meanings... that apply to a tangentially related topic. Got it.

[@acrtez]

God Almighty have mercy on me. Please in the name of Jesus Christ save me and protect in your Holy Temple. Amén

[@kyleboffa793]

Gen 2:9 indicate that the tree of life was in the garden. 3:22 says that 1 bite grants immortality. if there was n death before sin, why was there a tree to stop death?

[@D-Cameron]

If this god exists then of course he is a cruel and capricious creature, and no amount of woolly arguments as are presented here can gainsay that conclusion. Fortunately there isn't a single atom of evidence that this monstrous fiction is true.

[@horsepowerenthusiast6933]

I'm glad it's all man made....

[@iexist1300]

Yeah. It would be scary to know that a being so pretty that he would make parasitic wasps who lay eggs in live bugs as a punishment for 2 people not doing what he told them to has compleate power over our lives.

[@ibperson7765]

Actually, there is a very simple counter to that: the eternal outweighs the temporary no matter what happens during the temporary. Add the fact that the Bible clearly teaches that none of us goes to Hell to suffer forever, because none of us do, and QED.

[@robertbrown569]

@@ibperson7765 In what way does what it says in the bible serve as a counter to the point that there is no evidence that anything it says is true?

[@ibperson7765]

@@robertbrown569 Well my comment certainly didn’t address that question, but I would say the historical accuracy of the bible vindicated over and over does. Yet another example happened recently they found sodom and gomora burned to a crisp from above. “Every time an archaeologist digs in the middle-east another local converts” has been a saying since the 80’s.

[@jennifer20136]

On 7:02, the gentlemen mistranslated part of Genesis 1:30 from the Hebrew. The correct translation is "and to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creeps upon the earth, which has the breath of life, [I have given] every green herb for FOOD. And it was so." I capitalized the word "FOOD" to elucidate that he translated as for "MEAT" in his PowerPoint. לְאָכְלָ֑ה = For Food!

[@finitewonder4978]

We are as capable of doing evil as we are capable of doing good. When man "fell" the text states that the man has become like one of us (God) to know good and evil. Good and evil preexisted man. Choice, freewill, etc, cannot exist or be practical with only one available option.

[@quakerdx5435]

Now this is question that probably only God knows, but I think the question that atheist pull up, and also what I a Christian might ask is, why did he create the tree in the first place?

[@ArKritz84]

I'm sure there's absolute consensus about this. Go ahead and ask a few ministers/apologists/experts, and compare the answers.

[@iexist1300]

I've actually never heard an answer for this other than a non Christian theory that God made us mortal so he could learn what morality is, without having the capability to feel pain.

[@ibperson7765]

@@iexist1300 Better answer: God is Good and Sovereign, and evil exists. How? 1. The Bible does not teach that the unsaved will go to Hell to suffer forever, because they won’t. There will be fairness, and then annihilation. They will “be no more”, “vanish like smoke in the wind”, “be destroyed”, “be completely destroyed”, “be entirely destroyed”, “be totally burned up”, and just in case someone still can’t get it, they will “be just as if they had never existed”. This and much more against a single verse translated as “eternal punishment” which in the Greek clearly indicates the consequence is eternal, as for example in the verse about judgment day where each soul has an “eternal judgement” (which clearly does not take forever). All other verses say stuff like thrown into an eternal fire, always careful never to say the one thrown is eternal but the place thrown to is. 2. We are more than matter. There is a long game here. A very long game. And it is Good. 3. QED. That’s it. But another concept: You cannot have progress or mercy or relief or love or good or ANY KIND OF MEANINGFULNESS AT ALL without evil. If you’re in charge of a basketball game, would you make it laughably easy for one team to win. That’s not actually even a basketball game. And no one would be interested. And your imagined perfect life is not actually life. You can never enjoy ultimate union with the Divine without a real life first. Comparing the temporal with the eternal doesn’t work. If the fine-tuning of the universe has told us anything, it is that ANY coherent reality is incredibly difficult to create or maintain. We don’t know the purpose, the methods, the challenges, or especially the final and eternal outcome.

[@Super5450]

Whilst I agree with much of what was said, why leave out ‘I (God) create good and create evil’ There is a God given reason for evil in his/our world.

[@horsepowerenthusiast6933]

Not a god I wouldn't grovel, that's for sure.....

[@snuffywuffykiss1522]

And if you choose to worship an evil god, that makes you the bad guy.

[@4dy4dy]

God did not create evil, my friend. Lack of knowledge will make you speak in ignorance. Satan (the accuser) was not created evil, why did he become evil? the bible explains it clearly. Because he could, he had freedom. And after his mistake instead of repenting, he turned against his creator, and hardened and mocked even the Lord's creation. Why is he on earth among us? Because humanity has committed the same sin ... God has made us so aware that even our movies and cartoons show what "desire for power" means, and that is destruction. The Bible says that man ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, do you know what Adam did the first time he violated obedience to God? did he regret his mistake? no ... he blamed eva. Why did they eat? because God is a God of justice, you will always be free to choose the order and discipline of wonderful God, or the chaos and destruction that comes with selfishness. Or as you see in our society, what makes the "desire for more" we destroy even the earth with everything on it only to make "money", look in the past what abominations kings have come to do out of a desire for more. Now you who read this, you have the knowledge of good and evil. Where you have dedicated your life? to helping others make a better world without gaining any of it, because you are aware that you are dying anyway, and you think that the one who comes after you will do well. Or is your life a selfish one where you gather and gather, the misery of the world, hitting, cheating, lying, not caring about consequences, everything revolves around you, and if someone warns you, you offend him and make fun of him. God is not a tyrant, just as ignorance makes you speak. The Bible says that you are a dust and without God you will return to the dust. It's not eternal torment, it's not biblical. But everyone will have to pay for the mess he made on earth, because he is a Righteous God. Do not expect that you have abused a lifetime of everyone around you, you killed, you cheated, you made fun of the weak and you will give no account. Because God is right you did not choose to come to earth, then why do you long for it and destroy everything around you, why didn't you dedicate your life for the good of others? For those who understand these things and dedicate their lives to God, even if here on earth they have been mocked, or laughed at for not running after the same misery, killed for not giving up on God, for all those who have been thrown into the lions' arena, with children in their arms to be torn apart for fun for the Romans, just for the fact that they recognize their Creator. For them, God prepared the real earth, the one from the beginning, heaven, where they will see that, because they in the short life on earth put their trust in God, and sought to be good people, even if they only had lost here. For their little confidence and patience, God will bless them with eternal life, with a perfect world, where there will be no more hunger, crying, lying and misery. You cannot discover God when you seek Him in a selfish life. You discover God when you realize how small and meaningless you are, when instead of living for yourself you try to live for the good of others. Then you will be small here on earth but big in God's eyes. If you want to discover God, get on your knees, ask forgiveness for your selfishness and sins, and say you want to know Him and be part of those who want to bring God's goodness and love to earth and not the opposite.

[@AncientttimeZ]

You simply did not understand in the reference that God was using when that5 was stated... Isaiah 45:7 in the King James Version reads, “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” How does Isaiah 45:7 agree with the view that God did not create evil? There are two key facts that need to be considered. (1) The word translated “evil” is from a Hebrew word that means “adversity, affliction, calamity, distress, misery.” Notice how the other major English Bible translations render the word: “disaster” (NIV, HCSB), “calamity” (NKJV, NAS, ESV), and “woe” (NRSV). The Hebrew word can refer to moral evil, and often does have this meaning in the Hebrew Scriptures. However, due to the diversity of possible definitions, it is unwise to assume that “I create evil” in Isaiah 45:7 refers to God bringing moral evil into existence. (2) The context of Isaiah 45:7 makes it clear that something other than “bringing moral evil into existence” is in mind. The context of Isaiah 45:7 is God rewarding Israel for obedience and punishing Israel for disobedience. God pours out salvation and blessings on those whom He favors. God brings judgment on those who continue to rebel against Him. “Woe to him who quarrels with his Master” (Isaiah 45:9). That is the person to whom God brings “evil” and “disaster.” So, rather than saying that God created “moral evil,” Isaiah 45:7 is presenting a common theme of Scripture - that God brings disaster on those who continue in hard-hearted rebellion against Him. I hope you are able to comprehend all of this. Now you can help others that also did not understand what is meant by "God creating evil" as you have stated. Go now and allow God to use you!

[@stevenlast2168]

@@AncientttimeZ Simple answer you lie and and have no understanding, you refuse to believe the scripture's because they don't fit what you want them to be so you use faulty translation's to fit your belief's. Here are some scripture's that you don't believe the first one is ( Isaiah 45:7 ). You try to hide the Hebrew for evil: Isa 45:7 I formH3335 the light,H216 and createH1254 darkness:H2822 I makeH6213 peace,H7965 and createH1254 (evil:H7451) IH589 the LORDH3068 doH6213 allH3605 theseH428 things. H7451 רָעָה רַע ra‛ râ‛âh rah, raw-aw' From H7489; bad or (as noun) evil (naturally or morally). This includes the second (feminine) form; as adjective or noun: - adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease (-ure), distress, evil ([-favouredness], man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief (-vous), harm, heavy, hurt (-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief, (-vous), misery, naught (-ty), noisome, + not please, sad (-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked (-ly, -ness, one), worse (-st) wretchedness, wrong. [Including feminine ra’ah; as adjective or noun.] Total KJV occurrences: 664 evil, 440 Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips. Job 2:10 But he saidH559 untoH413 her, Thou speakestH1696 as oneH259 of the foolish womenH5036 speaketh.H1696 What?H1571 shall we receiveH6901 (H853) goodH2896 at the handH4480 H854 of God,H430 and shall we notH3808 receiveH6901 (evil?H7451) In allH3605 thisH2063 did notH3808 JobH347 sinH2398 with his lips.H8193 Amo 3:6 Shall a trumpetH7782 be blownH8628 in the city,H5892 and the peopleH5971 notH3808 be afraid?H2729 shall there beH1961 (evilH7451) in a city,H5892 and the LORDH3068 hath notH3808 doneH6213 it? To you God didn't make the tree of knowledge of good and evil but ( adversity, affliction, calamity, distress, misery ) Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. ( adversity, affliction, calamity, distress, misery ) H6869 - adversity צָרָה tsârâh tsaw-raw' Feminine of H6862; tightness (that is, figuratively trouble); transitively a female rival: - adversary, adversity, affliction, anguish, distress, tribulation, trouble. Total KJV occurrences: 73 2Sa 4:9 And David answered Rechab and Baanah his brother, the sons of Rimmon the Beerothite, and said unto them, As the LORD liveth, who hath redeemed my soul out of all adversity, H6040 - affliction עֳנִי ‛ŏnı̂y on-ee' From H6031; depression, that is, misery: - afflicted (-ion), trouble. Total KJV occurrences: 37 Gen_16:11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction. H343 - calamity אֵיד 'êyd ade From the same as H181 (in the sense of bending down); oppression; by implication misfortune, ruin: - calamity, destruction. Total KJV occurrences: 24 Deu 32:35 To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste. H5999 - misery עָמָל ‛âmâl aw-mawl' From H5998; toil, that is, wearing effort; hence worry, whether of body or mind: - grievance (-vousness), iniquity, labour, mischief, miserable (-sery), pain (-ful), perverseness, sorrow, toil, travail, trouble, wearisome, wickedness. Total KJV occurrences: 55 Jdg 10:16 And they put away the strange gods from among them, and served the LORD: and his soul was grieved for the misery of Israel. So you lie and believe what your Babylonian witchdoctor's taught you. The word translated “evil” is from a Hebrew word that means “adversity, affliction, calamity, distress, misery. No the word translated evil is the Hebrew word H7451 רָעָה רַע , ra‛ râ‛âh, rah, raw-aw' that means Evil To use your own words ( I hope you are able to comprehend all of this. Now you can help others that also did not understand what is meant by "God creating evil" as you have stated. Go now and allow God to use you! Here's one for you: Isa 63:17 Why, LORD, do you make us wander from your ways and harden our hearts, so that we do not fear you? Turn back for the sake of your servants, for the sake of the tribes that are your heritage.

[@lloydmunga4961]

If you think God is an all loving God, then you haven't read the bible ...but.he is a just God .... and righteous. He loves all who mind him and obey; just like a parent. And he hates wickedness, evil and all things UNNATURAL. pretty simple.

[@MrGilfred]

The ones that think a loving God shouldn't allow evil don't understand the reasons behind allowing it. Some might think that God should've created man without free will. Where man would have no choice but to obey God. But then anyone that has free will would rightfully say that it is for no reason that man worships God. Man would only be just a little bit above animals. He still wouldn't be in the image of God, God has free will. Just think of having millions of beings both in heaven and on earth that are all obeying God out of love, of their own free will. Not because they were forced to obey. That brings God greater glory than creating sentient automatons. Next they don't understand that there is a greater issue at hand here. Who's way of ruling is best for man is it God's way or man's way. The bible teaches that man's way only leads man to dominating his fellow man to his own injury. There have been other reasons other than why evil that have driven people away from God. False teachings like trinity and fiery hell have also driven people away from God. Natural disasters are the result of how we have been taking care of our home the planet called earth. We haven't been the best caretakers as far as doing our jobs goes. Diseases are the consequences of Adam and Eve's sin. Famine is the consequences of human greed. What God said to Adam was truly a curse on the earth or animals itself. He just told him that he would have to work to grow his own food instead of the ground giving it too him without doing any work at all. Roman's 8:20 is for mankind not animals or the planet earth because there is no way that animals or our planet can become children of God..The word heaven in the bible also refers to government. So there will be a new government that will take over here on the earth it is called God's kingdom. Earth in the bible at times refers to mankind. So the new earth is obedient mankind here on this planet. The planet didn't do anything wrong that caused God to have to punish it. Nor did the animals do wrong that caused God to punish them. Animals have never been given the opportunity to live forever. It is only man that will receive that gift because it comes by taking in knowledge of God and animals cannot do that. Also Adam knew what death was because animals died. The planet and animals cannot inherit our sin because there is no connection from man to animals as far as inheritance goes. World no doubt in that scripture means mankind. Animals still died during the times of Adam it was just due to natural causes.

[@mattjackson4323]

Good doesn't exist without evil. Evil is here, and always has been. God will abolish evil when the Bible is fulfilled. Then, he will make a new heaven and Earth.

[@ibperson7765]

Amen. And so concise too. Only thing I would add is that The Bible does not teach that the unsaved will go to Hell to suffer forever, because they won’t. There will be fairness, and then annihilation. They will “be no more”, “vanish like smoke in the wind”, “be destroyed”, “be completely destroyed”, “be entirely destroyed”, “be totally burned up”, and just in case someone still can’t get it, they will “be just as if they had never existed”. This and much more against a single verse translated as “eternal punishment” which in the Greek clearly indicates the consequence is eternal, as for example in the verse about judgment day where each soul has an “eternal judgement” (which clearly does not take forever). All other verses say stuff like thrown into an eternal fire, always careful never to say the one thrown is eternal but the place thrown to is. Yeah redemption and mercy and holiness have no meaning or even existence with no evil at all.

[@loveinaction2772]

Most of the world blames God the Creator but all the nay sayers the no blame for their choices as they want it their way, be prepared God has been patient for many years and He will Judge humans and the world.

[@stussysinglet]

If you get to the heart of what mainstream Christianity teaches it is that God cares about other things above human suffering... Suffering is basically a cost he is happy for us to pay because ultimately it's his own glory that is most important. As long as life shows his glory such as show casing his, mercy, judgement, rightousness, love and other aspects of himself reality is seen as a good thing by him. As long as he can prove his power over a fallen angel human suffering is a secondary concern. The Christian God knew what suffering would occur in the world and it was set up this way from the beginning. God also knew that not all souls would be saved and many would have to expireince endless pain. God is ok with this because as I mentioned God cares about his glory more than human and animal suffering. God could of decided he would rather not create a world at all. No world at all does seem by far the better option when you have people suffering for ever but again it all comes back to Gods glory being the most important thing. If you truely understand Christianity this is the basis for all its teachings.

[@AncientttimeZ]

Think bigger and dig deeper and you will understand. Use this scripture when you apply any scripture and your eyes will be opened. Acts 15:18 "ALL of God's works are KNOWN to Him from the BEGINNING of the world." God bless...

[@jorwegs]

I think asking "why God allows evil" is the wrong question, it is like asking why do dentists allow people to have cavities? Therefore I now discredit dentists.

[@DP-mj2dw]

God please heal me from unbelief

[@edgarmatzinger9742]

Why? You're probably better off unbelieving.

[@devb9912]

Did it work...?

[@stuartfoster7582]

God created the Beasts , The Beasts at war in our minds, Gods Test to each one of us. It’s where we all end up at our journeys end ! If Evil ! The Cleansing !

[@whosays2153]

God allows evil to teach us lessons from our rejection of Him. For evil exists in the absence of God. Evil is the opposite of good, which is God. And the Bible teaches that everyone will be tested; so, evil is all around us. We, fallible beings, must stay close to God, who is perfect, to subdue evil.

[@snuffywuffykiss1522]

Sorry, I don't need a sky wizard to tell me whats right or wrong. Go stop your priests from raping kids before you say anything about morality.

[@basilrex4105]

Bates' testimony is profoundly reassuring

[@58seas]

It is man who choose and allows evil and suffering. The beauty and abundance to fulfill all our needs that was given to us by God but men chose instead to disobey God. Knowing what the consequence would be man chose to throw it all away. I don’t blame God for cursing man and earth. But also remember God knew this would happen. He knows that man chooses to be a god just like Satan chose to disobey God because he wanted to be god. So God made a plan to send His Son, the 2nd man born without sin and chose to obey God and went to the cross to cleanse of sin those that believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. So even now people chose the curse or hell and reject God’s way of salvation through Jesus Christ. Man chooses to reject God and will go to hell because of man’s choice and not God’s. To tell you the truth the evil and suffering I’ve experienced caused me to run to Jesus and not away from Him.

[@drooghead]

You have a lot of contortionist apologetics about god's nature but until you actually provide falsifiable evidence that your god even exists then you are just blowing hot air.

[@ibperson7765]

Until you can provide falsifiable evidence that matter even exists, you are. In physics, it is always in the form of information or properties. Positing matter as a fundamental has no meaning. In experience, it is always in the form of awareness. You know nothing but your own awareness. ---- Then again until you can provide a definition of true or false if only matter exists, you cant falsify anything.

[@drooghead]

@@ibperson7765 After that word salad I'm now convinced your god exists but only in an alternative reality. Keep up the bullshit because it turns more people away from religion.

[@ibperson7765]

@@drooghead Prove matter exists. Is that clearer? Define true vs false, and define a claim or statement, if only matter exists. Got it now? In one’s experience, what is directly known is awareness of sensory and feeling phenomena. That is what can actually be verified. Simple enough?

[@drooghead]

@@ibperson7765 More LOL. Twisting yourself into a pretzel in order to question reality itself will bring you no closer to proving the existence of a god let alone your particular god. Keep em coming, this is comedy gold. Anyone looking on will determine that apologists are just wankers.

[@christopherscallio2539]

I think that most atheist arguments are; Why does God let evil occur if He's good? God has flooded the Earth once and disposed of most of the evil in one stroke. Today He is fighting evil one heart at a time. Because evil springs up from within man.

[@EthelredHardrede-nz8yv]

" think that most atheist arguments are; Why does God let evil occur if He's good?" No, that is just trying to get through a closed mind. Most Atheists are Agnostic like me and simply do on see adequate evidence for any god. Evil is a human concept and benevolent god that could do something would do something. Otherwise it not benevolent. BUT that is not the reason for not believing in your god for most. The lack of evidence is and so is the evidence against your god. There was no Great Flood so there is no Jehovah. Morality is brought because Christians lie that a god is needed for morality to exist. You bring that one on yourselves, since the Bible fully supports slavery, and chattel slavery that is fully supported in the Bible. Join the few, the rational, the Agnostic Ethelred Hardrede

[@christopherscallio2539]

@@EthelredHardrede-nz8yv Holy Bible does document Slavery as a condition men have subjegated other men into. But I don't see how documenting a true historical fact can be construed as Supporting Slavery. As for your claim of no proof of GOD. We see mathmatics in every aspect of natural science. Mathmatics is an abstract concept of order. Yet this order is everywhere & cannot be denied. There is no chaos in the universe. Excepting when sinful men engage in imorality. Light gravity sound magnetism ect are all in a predictable order. nature is in order with cause & affect. Action reaction. 0+0=0 everytime. No amount of time & chance could posibly get something from nothing.

[@RetroBackslash]

@@christopherscallio2539 There is no chaos in the universe? Cancer is not chaotic?

[@EthelredHardrede-nz8yv]

@@RetroBackslash "There is no chaos in the universe?" He used an argument from personal ignorance of the subject, both science and math.

[@RetroBackslash]

@@christopherscallio2539 "We see mathmatics in every aspect of natural science. Mathmatics is an abstract concept of order. Yet this order is everywhere & cannot be denied." I'm confused as to how this forms part of a proof for A god let alone YOUR god specifically.

[@lloydmunga4961]

He can do whatever he wants ..... he built it , he can destroy it

[@mled31611]

Where on the Bible do we see that earth is a Spinning Mudbowl

[@kyleboffa793]

If animals died in Adam, why can't they be saved in Christ? also If Christians are forgiven of sin, why do they die?

[@kyleboffa793]

@@dougefresh133 1 Corinthians 15:21-22 states that ALL that died in Adam shall be saved in Jesus, not just humans

[@EthelredHardrede-nz8yv]

@@kyleboffa793 But everybody dies. Jesus is still dead.

[@chelliz2138]

Thank you Lord God for your mercy, grace and loving kindness of your Son Lord Jesus Christ to stand before our sins..

[@snuffywuffykiss1522]

Lotta mercy to those 10,000 children that starve to death daily. But hey, Karen found her car keys so Hallelujah...

[@ArKritz84]

Count the hits and ignore the misses, forever and ever...

[@ibperson7765]

@@snuffywuffykiss1522 Better answer: God is Good and Sovereign, and evil exists. How? 1. The Bible does not teach that the unsaved will go to Hell to suffer forever, because they won’t. There will be fairness, and then annihilation. They will “be no more”, “vanish like smoke in the wind”, “be destroyed”, “be completely destroyed”, “be entirely destroyed”, “be totally burned up”, and just in case someone still can’t get it, they will “be just as if they had never existed”. This and much more against a single verse translated as “eternal punishment” which in the Greek clearly indicates the consequence is eternal, as for example in the verse about judgment day where each soul has an “eternal judgement” (which clearly does not take forever). All other verses say stuff like thrown into an eternal fire, always careful never to say the one thrown is eternal but the place thrown to is. 2. We are more than matter. There is a long game here. A very long game. And it is Good. 3. QED. That’s it. But another concept: You cannot have progress or mercy or relief or love or good or ANY KIND OF MEANINGFULNESS AT ALL without evil. Ever seen any movie without evil? Wait, dont we want good, why would they put evil in every movie? If you’re in charge of a basketball game, would you make it laughably easy for one team to win. That’s not actually even a basketball game. And no one would be interested. And your imagined perfect life is not actually life. You can never enjoy ultimate union with the Divine without a real life first. Comparing the temporal with the eternal doesn’t work. If the fine-tuning of the universe has told us anything, it is that ANY coherent reality is incredibly difficult to create or maintain. We don’t know the purpose, the methods, the challenges, or especially the final and eternal outcome.

[@snuffywuffykiss1522]

@@ibperson7765 So this world and all the good and bad in it is just a narrative your "perfect" god is telling like steven king or quinten tarentino? Remember your god isn't a referee... Is not arbitrating , but instead Dictating. Nothing happens outside of your gods will according to your own literature.... All the rape and torture and murder and starvation of children is just the dramatic backdrop for your drama queen narrator/god to tell the "perfect" story. Thats how you solve the age old Problem of Evil? With, "it makes a better story..."? Sorry but I do not accept that as an answer a moral person would give or acknowledge as a foundation for belief.

[@ibperson7765]

@@snuffywuffykiss1522 You may not be fully appreciating the significance of eternal life. Nothing that happens in a finite life can outweigh it. I literally do not believe we are merely matter. Also, I dont have as strong (and I would say as silly) of a notion of omnipotence as most people. I dont think it means “infinity power rah” where just anything can happen without contradiction or constraints or balances of any kind at all. I think it means in charge and having all the power there is to have though, so Im not backing away from that fact about God. And about the Bible. Even just making any cogent physical realities appear to take a genius of prowess far beyond our comprehension. So managing to sanctify many spiritual creatures also is not easy. But really, do you think after 8 trillion years youd be mad that 8 trillion and thirty years ago when you were twelve something horrible happened. I went from an almost aggressive scientific materialist to an awareness monist (as that is all that can be first person verified and seems to be the atoms of life) to theism to Christianity. I literally believe in eternal life. Reason for repeating is that I think most people who answer this question think they need to answer it in a manner that works for both cases. I dont.

[@videogameshow5853]

Those shirts are causing trouble to my eyes.

[@Steelmage99]

"Why does God allow Evil?" is the wrong question. "Why does God _cause_ Evil?" is the correct question, when taking God's supposed characteristics into consideration. To which the obvious answer is; "Because He _is_ Evil!".

[@edwahzephaniahjoshua6434]

Because God is a freewill agent and God made man in His image after His likeness ; it became God to give man a free will. The command not to eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil; became Satan's focus to get man to disobey God. Romans 6:16 "Know you not that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey whether to sin unto death or to God unto righteousness. Now God knows you and I were not in the garden disobeying Him. It was Adam choosing to disobey God thus obeying Satan who therefore became the god of this world. 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 "Wherefore as by one man sin/Satan entered the world ( with authority, through Adams obedience to him) and death by sin ( the cause of sin, spiritual death) so then death passed upon all men ( all men are born spiritually separated from God Romans 5:12 God allowed the disobedience/sin of one man to come upon all ; so that God could legally, then put all men upon the cross of one man Jesus Christ All though we were not on the cross vitally but legally. See Romans 5:12-19. Now Adam was made alive then chose death. We are dead but given the right to choose life See 2 Corinthians 2:14-16 and 1 Corinthians 2:6-7, 12-13, John 3:21

[@silkalter9880]

Since the godhead is a trinity and when you say why does God allow evil you must break down the Trinity and see how each aspect of it deals with evil God the father has no knowledge of evil everything is perfect nothing that wasn't perfect as in perfect could ever not be perfect because he is a perfect guy got the sauce has dealt with the shin issue by shedding his blood so he's not dealing anything but the judgment and so it's a holy spirit that must deal with our sin nature that we grieve

[@samcash7398]

God created mankind to share in his glory, but mankind had to earn this glory. God gave mankind free will; if he hadn't given us free will then we would be just like a machine. Mankind (in the same way as did Lucifer the angel) chose to disobey God through selfish pride. Mankind through Adam and Eve sinned against God and so condemned all of us to the life we now live. Sinning against God is the cause of all the evils in this world - from the time of Adam, when Cain killed Abel and through to the genocides of today. Sin is a choice people make - and Lucifer loves it when people sin - and it is sin that is the cause of the suffering in the world. In this current time (and likely in past times) sin has reached epic proportions and hence evil and suffering has reached epic proportions. This world and our time in it is temporary - it is to the next world that we must look, because that is eternal.

[@AncientttimeZ]

Let me help you in more depth about WHY God allows EVIL... Jesus said God "alone" is GOOD! That is because God alone always knew exactly what GOOD is. EVIL is the necessary defining factor on exactly what GOOD truly is. "KNOWLEDGE" is the key here. ONLY God knows EVERYTHING. Remember Jesus does not know everything. That is why Jesus said God "alone" is GOOD. The fall of man was not an accident. Acts 15:18 "ALL of God's works are known to Him from the beginning of the world." That means God already knew man would fall. Job 42:2 "I know You can do ALL things and NO purpose of Yours can be thwarted." That means when Lucifer fooled Eve into eating from the tree, that did NOT thwart any purpose of God's! God could have cast Lucifer anywhere but He cast him to the same planet He was creating man on. WHY? Because Lucifer was the ingredient needed to ensure the fall. Lucifer did not do anything that God did not already know he would do. God alone is good because of His ALL KNOWING "knowledge." This is WHY the forbidden tree's name was the "tree of the 'KNOWLEDGE' of good and evil." God is teaching ALL of His creations exactly what Good is so all of His creations may become GOOD! When God's Grand Plan is completed we will all know exactly what GOOD is as God knows it. We will all know what EVIL is as God knows it. This experience is demonstrating just how much God loves us, that is why our lives are so short. We just do not realize this yet, but we will when it is all over and done with after the last thousand years are completed and Death and Hades are thrown into the Lake of Fire. We are learning this evil thing in an up close in our face lesson so we know it 100%. God is still in the midst of creating us. He is actually refining us, or in essence He is giving all of us our VACINATION against EVIL! "MAN" is God's greatest creation but not as taught in the world today that it's because man was made in the image of God, but rather... MAN is His greatest creation because of what God will achieve "through" MAN. MAN is the tool in which God will make the NONEXISTENCE of EVIL to become ABSOLUTE! A prayer filled with the wisdom of thanks that covers why we are here. -- "Ancien† †imeZ" -- "Thank You my Father in Heaven for this GREAT opportunity that You have bestowed upon each and every one of us here on Earth living a life separated from You. Directly from what You have set before us in our lives here on Earth, those of us who truly are paying attention have now come to realize and know the reasons "WHY" You are allowing all things other than GOOD to exist. It is so that we may learn what life is truly like without You before You reward us with living life in Eternity with You! This way what the EVIL ONE has done will never again be repeated. Thank You God, You are so wise and filled with PURE LOVE and COMPASSION. When we meet You in Heaven after You've given us our new perfect bodies with PERFECT self-control, that together with this GREAT LESSON learned here on Earth as we live our lives separated from You and Your perfect and righteous ways, evil will never exist again. We are so thankful for Your infinite wisdom in all You are doing. We know that You gave perfect bodies to Adam and Eve, Lucifer and all the other Angels that followed him. In Your perfect and magnificent mind You already knew that because of the FREE WILL that You give to all, a “PERFECT” body was in no way enough. You knew all along that one day a GREAT LESSON would have to be taught. YOU alone know everything and all Your creations do not! We thank You for showing us Your GREAT LOVE that You have for us by allowing us to experience EVIL, which is all things opposite of who You are and stand for. We now know and understand that You have ALLOWED all of this out of Your great never ending LOVE for us and all of Your other creations everywhere so ALL may learn this GREAT LESSON that You set into motion six days ago (that is six of Your days [6,000 years to man]). Now we have but one day left (1,000 years) until it is finished. We are so happy and thankful that the ultimate end result of Your GRAND PLAN to do away with EVIL completely will become reality everywhere! The result of You taking this time (7 days out of ETERNITY) to teach and refine us all, pure goodness will be instilled into the heart, mind and soul of every single being that lives throughout ETERNITY with You. All thanks to You for taking this small time-out from ETERNITY to allow ALL of Your creations to learn what You already know! This TIME You have taken will perfect Your greatest achievement, and the NON-existence of EVIL will become "ABSOLUTE"! We love You with all of our hearts, minds, bodies and souls. In Jesus name we all pray. “AMEN”!!! Why does God allow us to suffer--> That is WHY we are here. To experience and learn about both GOOD and EVIL! That is why the tree was called the "Tree of "KNOWLEDGE" of good and evil." God is perfect and good. Everything He creates is perfect. However, God loves all so much that He gives a FREE WILL. God knew all along there would one day need to tie up a loose end. There is an OPPOSITE of who God is. Until Lucifer tapped into it, it had never been touched before in all eternity. But God knew there was an opposite of Him. That is why Jesus said in Mark 10:18 ►"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone."... The reason WHY God ALONE is good is because only God knows exactly what GOOD truly is. God knows what GOOD is and He alone knew of the opposite of Him, EVIL. Because God loves all life He creates, He had to keep the FREE WILL intact and the only way He could do this was to create the OPPOSITE type of REALM to teach this GREAT LESSON in in His GRAND PLAN to make the nonexistence of EVIL become ABSOLUTE! All the suffering we experience is actually God showing us that He loves us. We just do not realize it yet. Once we are with Him in eternity when this is all over, we will understand and then we will KNOW good as God knows it. We will know EVIL as God knows it. Because God allowed this to be taught to us, what Lucifer did will never ever be repeated throughout all eternity. THAT is why our lives are so short here on Earth. It is all very simple really if you examine everything and seek to know TRUTH!!! -Jerry * Ancien† †imeZ

[@ibperson7765]

👍🏻. A REEEEEALLY important concept is that the eternal outweighs the temporal... no matter what happens in the temporal. (And I believe the Bible when it says the wicked will be judged and punished and then “be no more”.)

[@AncientttimeZ]

@@ibperson7765 I simply explained what is in the HOLY BIBLE in more detail as Almighty God has led me to do. Your statement has nothing to do with all the detail that I shared here, my brother in Christ.

[@ibperson7765]

@@AncientttimeZ I was agreeing and adding another point. If you dont think it is allowed or something delete it from your comment feed or even mute me.

[@AncientttimeZ]

@@ibperson7765 OK. Sorry my brother. I must have read it wrong from what you meant by your comment. God bless

[@ibperson7765]

@@AncientttimeZ np and God bless. Im getting away from my phone awhile. Not the most helpful activity atm

[@fdameron]

So how is it I am a sinner because the mythical Adam was. There is nothing in genetics that transfers "sinfulness" from generation to generation. The bible makes many ridiculous claims that just have no basis in reality.

[@simonskinner1450]

Evil is allowed so that evil people can be punished. To be found guilty you must prove yourself guilty of evil. Evil exists for evil sake.

[@EthelredHardrede-nz8yv]

You left out a step. You had to be created evil to be evil and then you can be punished for ever for being created evil. Seems a bit sick to me.

[@simonskinner1450]

@@EthelredHardrede-nz8yv we are not created evil. We accept the idea of sin so that we agree to live under a law.

[@EthelredHardrede-nz8yv]

@@simonskinner1450 " we are not created evil." Correct, we evolved from earlier non human apes. "We accept the idea of sin so that we agree to live under a law." No. Law in the real world has nothing to do with sin as sin is a transgression against a god. We don't make such laws, at least not in the US where such laws would against the constitution. You accept the idea of sin because you have a religion that promotes the idea. I simply was pointing out that, according to the Bible, god creates everything, evil included. Its YOUR problem to deal with that silly nonsense. I just go with what evidence shows. There may be a god but there is no real verifiable evidence for any god and all testable gods fail testing. The Creationist god was disproved by Christian geologists in the 1800's. Geology still comes up with that same result, the Earth is very old and there was no Great Flood. So if there is a god, its not that god. And yes the idea you promoted is sick because evil cannot come from anything that is perfectly created so you failed to patch it. Ethelred Hardrede

[@simonskinner1450]

@@EthelredHardrede-nz8yv you really must study how sedimentary rock is formed in mudflow. It is a phenomenon that layers are only produced in a mudflow. Check Stratification by Layering and you will see the observations of the 18th and 19th centuries by Charles Lyell of uniformatarianism are impossible. You hope that we evolved.

[@EthelredHardrede-nz8yv]

​@@simonskinner1450 "ou really must study how sedimentary rock is formed in mudflow. " And many other ways. Mostly other ways. Perhaps you should learn some real geology as I have. "It is a phenomenon that layers are only produced in a mudflow. " See you didn't learn any geology because that is just plain false. "Check Stratification by Layering and you will see the observations of the 18th and 19th centuries by Charles Lyell of uniformatarianism are impossible." You clearly don't know what uniformitarianism is. This video has it all wrong. Real geologist are aware that catastrophes happen. They are rare and there is zero evidence that the entire Earth was EVER flooded, much less in the middle of the Egyptian pyramid building era as Creationist say it happened, about 2350 BC. I know we did because the evidence for that is more than adequate for anyone rational on the subject. Sorry but this page does not allow LINKS so I had to remove them. Creationist pages do that a lot. Wikipedia Charles Lyell "Building on the innovative work of James Hutton and his follower John Playfair, Lyell favoured an indefinitely long age for the Earth, despite evidence suggesting an old but finite age.[4] He was a close friend of Charles Darwin, and contributed significantly to Darwin's thinking on the processes involved in evolution. As Darwin wrote in On the Origin of Species, "He who can read Sir Charles Lyell's grand work on the Principles of Geology, which the future historian will recognise as having produced a revolution in natural science, yet does not admit how incomprehensibly vast have been the past periods of time, may at once close this volume."[5] Lyell helped to arrange the simultaneous publication in 1858 of papers by Darwin and Alfred Russel Wallace on natural selection, despite his personal religious qualms about the theory. He later published evidence from geology of the time man had existed on Earth." Evolution Berkeley edu article 0_0_0 history_12 "Lyell traveled through Europe to find more evidence that gradual changes, the same we can see happening today, had produced the features of the Earth's surface. He found evidence for many rises and falls of sea level, and of giant volcanoes built on top of far older rocks. Processes such as earthquakes and eruptions, which had been witnessed by humans, were enough to produce mountain ranges. Valleys were not the work of giant floods but the slow grinding force of wind and water. medium from the great flood to early geology c23b56443069 "He studied geology under the catastrophist William Buckland who tried to link current landscape to the Great Flood. To Lyell geology seemed to be driven by natural processes thus it is a scientific field on its own, built on observation and not dependent on the supernatural. All Charles Lyell needed for his research was observations during his travels throughout the mountains. Simple thought experiments led to logical conclusions. If you can find a seashell on the top of the mountains, who put it there? The Great flood, definitely, couldn’t do that, so the Earth must have risen from the sea itself." Perhaps real geology, MODERN geology is something you should study as even Charles Lyell did not agree with you. And please tell just now MUD FLOWS can possibly create DESERT sandstone? Or any kind of sandstone, limestone, miles thick salt deposits, ash deposits, oil, coal or even multi million year old glaciers. You clearly don't anything about real geology, even from the past such as that of Lyell. Ethelred Hardrede

[@cajunqueen5125]

Great skit, luv this. Should be on SNL for sure. Great work, keep it up.

[@ibperson7765]

I love seeing intellectual lightweights use the only tool they have left to attack a reasoned and wise trust in God.... sarcasm. Clear sign they have no coherent worldview just insults. Which is nothing against any good person who is not especially smart, or you, as there’s more to life than that. I just enjoy it because it’s a sign of the bankruptcy of monist materialism.

[@justaguy6100]

There's so much wrong here. But I'll begin with the notion of all creatures being vegetarian "before the fall." So why are some animals still vegetarian? And vegetarian animals have specialized dentition as well as digestive tracts in order to make use of a strictly herbivorous diet. So then he had to completely begin redesigning all present day carnivores dentition and digestive tracts to accommodate a carnivorous diet rather than an herbivorous one. But there's zero evidence of such change in any carnivorous species in the past. PLUS... so a human woman, who, by the way, had no knowledge by God's design of right and wrong eats a fruit without having BY DESIGN the capacity to understand doing so was wrong and God also knew this would happen since omniscience ya know so THEN he inflicts these "consequences" on all of creation including segments of the NON human animal kingdom that didn't do anything but hey they gotta suffer too along with the entirety of mankind thenceforth because... reasons. How very just 🙄 Look... this IS evil. If "evil" exists then this god is an accessory to every heinous act of humankind INCLUDING the first one, biting that fruit.

[@ray2022003]

I think it's a lie to say we were vegetarians before the flood. Because the Bible says Abel was a keeper of sheep and Cain a tiller of the ground. If they did not eat meat why will there be the need for Abel to specifically be a keeper of sheep? And i do not think God also ordered the animals only to eat meat after the flood, they probably did before the flood and what is wrong if they have to kill other animals to feed themselves. If God wanted them not to eat meat they would have all (animals) been made vegetarians. There is never anything wrong with eating meat.

[@AncientttimeZ]

They made clothes from Sheep's wool. ;) Animals with K-9's ate meat only after God punished the ground when He punished Adam. Use this scripture when you apply any scripture and your eyes will be opened. Acts 15:18 "ALL of God's works are KNOWN to Him from the BEGINNING of the world."

[@ray2022003]

@@AncientttimeZ They didn't use the wool but the skin, just as God did and he had to kill the for the skin. If the sheep were kept only for that purpose, which I think is not. And where in the Bible does it say animals of the K-9 type only ate meat after Adam and the ground were cursed? And if meat should not be eaten before the flood what changed after the flood that meat was allowed to be eaten? And what has Acts 15:18 to do with eating meat? It notion that animals should not be eaten is just not biblical. Jesus was not a vegetarian, why wasn't he if vegetarianism meant something to God?

[@AncientttimeZ]

@@ray2022003 Hummm... I see you must have been there personally when they raised Sheep. Then why would you ask any questions to anyone since you were there??? Either you are just attempting to dazzle me with what you think you know, or you simply have not sought after real truth! Jesus said in Matthew 7:7 "seek and you WILL find." The difference between me and you is I have sought. I have found. Now as you learn the HOLY BIBLE, in order to find TRUTH, try Acts 15:18 "ALL of God's works are KNOWN to Him from the beginning of the world." Now apply THAT verse to EVERYTHING that you think you know, and use it as you begin learning real truth and your questions will ALL be revealed to you. You are welcome.

[@ray2022003]

@@AncientttimeZ what comment did I make that makes you say I might have been there? You commented they used the sheep's wool for clothes and I said they used the skin. I made that statement became it is stated that God made them clothes out of the skin, and not the wool. You can find that somewhere in genesis 3:21. Or you can't face the truth that God killed an animal to use it's skin? And you keep bringing up acts 15:18, again what has that to do with eating meat? Which is the main topic we are discussing. This is what I have seen in life, people always defend what they believe instead of seeking the truth. I don't want to be like that. Cause believing a lie can be deadly. If man was allowed to eat meat only after the flood, which you believe, that won't be a problem for me to believe if evidence say so. But you haven't come up with any hard proof.

[@AncientttimeZ]

@@ray2022003 This is what you said; " They didn't use the wool but the skin, just as God did and he had to kill the for the skin." I am sure they used that and who knows what else. The only thing you find in Genesis is that God killed to animals to clothe Adam and Eve so they were no longer naked. Acts 15:18 is the key to learning all of what God is doing, as well as WHY He allows evil... Obviously you are not there yet. Believing a lie certainly can be a travesty especially if one teaches the lie that was taught to them. Brother, you have not demonstrated any proof of your assertion either. However... As far as what they ate before the flood. Who knows, but we do know that it wasn't until after the flood that God gave the animals to them for food. Genesis 9:3 ►"Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything." Did you notice the part where the word "now" is used. God bless I am here to help. I am Jerry

[@junevandermark952]

If a god existed, it would be evil. After all, the story goes that Lucifer committed evil while he was in heaven. That means (within the theology) heaven never was a safe haven, and if you arrive there, because of free will, you will also be allowed to commit evil, so that the creator can be evil and punish you, by rejecting your "soul" to eternal hell. I used to try to make sense of religion, but now believe as did Stephen Hawking, (before he died) that the universe always existed, and always will exist ... no creator involved.

[@ibperson7765]

June... Better answer: 1. The Bible does not teach that the unsaved will go to Hell to suffer forever, because they won’t. There will be fairness, and then annihilation. They will “be no more”, “vanish like smoke in the wind”, “be destroyed”, “be completely destroyed”, “be entirely destroyed”, “be totally burned up”, and just in case someone still can’t get the three simple words “be. no. more.”, they “will be just as if they had never existed”. This and much more against a single verse translated as “eternal punishment” which in the Greek clearly indicates the consequence is eternal, as for example in the verse about judgment day where each soul has an “eternal judgement” (which clearly does not take forever). All other verses say stuff like thrown into an eternal fire, always careful never to say the one thrown is eternal but the place thrown to is. 2. We are more than matter. There is a long game here. A very long game. And it is Good. 3. QED. That’s it. But another concept: You cannot have progress or mercy or relief or love or good or ANY KIND OF MEANINGFULNESS AT ALL without evil. Have you ever seen any movie of any kind without any evil at all? No. If you’re in charge of a basketball game, would you make it laughably easy for one team to win. That’s not actually even a basketball game. And no one would be interested. And your imagined perfect life is not actually life. You can never enjoy ultimate union with the Divine without a real life first. Comparing the temporal with the eternal doesn’t work. If the fine-tuning of the universe has told us anything, it is that ANY coherent reality is incredibly difficult to create or maintain. You don’t know the purpose, the methods, the challenges, or especially the final and eternal outcome.

[@junevandermark952]

@@ibperson7765 The old time Christian preachers were all about hellfire and damnation. By the way, what good is the story of Satan, if it doesn't entail burning souls in hell for eternity. I suggest you don't try to pull the wool over my eyes about what the bible says. From the only Weekly Word-origin Webzine,“Take Our Word for It,” comes the following … "There is a widely held belief that the etymology of a word reveals its "real" meaning. This is just not so. The etymology of a word simply reveals its origins, not its "true" meaning. Words simply do not have secret inner meanings. Meanings are fluid and context-dependent; they are not contained in words but in the minds of those who speak the words.”

[@ibperson7765]

@@junevandermark952 Regardless of your etymological philosophy, they will “be no more” is even harder to reconcile than “wake to eternal punishment” given other uses of eternal as an adjective. No one can misunderstand “be no more”. People generally just distract by repeating verses from their side.

[@junevandermark952]

@@ibperson7765 I don't know about you, but I relate to the following. If, as children, we were indoctrinated by the following information, rather than being taught that suffering for wicked souls exists in a supposed afterlife, we would not have any fear of death. From the book Medicine Madams and Mounties … Stories of a Yukon Doctor * 1933-1947 … Death is the final sleep … The Indians I met were used to death and dying. They saw it daily as they slaughtered and trapped animals for their livelihood. For them everything had its time, ending in death, and they could not understand our fear of dying. “Why do white people fear death?” they often asked me. “Nobody fears the onset of the unconsciousness called sleep yet you are afraid of the final sleep, death.”

[@MrGilfred]

There will be people living in God's kingdom here on earth. The earth will be transformed by those living in the kingdom during the thousand year reign of Christ along with God blessing obedient mankind's efforts in that kingdom. The bible teaches that the earth wasn't created for merely nothing. It will be inhabited by a perfect human family worshiping God the way that he deserves to be worshiped and being served the way he deserves to be served. God still allows normal plants to grow out of the ground without us having to do anything to get them to grow. if man had to work as a gardener for the entire earth this whole world would be a different place. Revelation 21:4 is talking about mankind, not the animals. Job will see God in that kingdom on the earth in the future but not with his physical eyes because God won't be living here on the earth in a body of flesh. Job will see him as he always had seen him with eyes of faith. Just as everyone else will see God in God's kingdom here on the earth.

[@edwahzephaniahjoshua6434]

Because He has given you a choice of life or death

[@devb9912]

So do mafia bosses.

[@ArKritz84]

"Nice soul you've got there, be a shame if something happened to it."

[@MrHowdeedodee]

Well as usual these fellows left out a lot of things needed to understand what is really going on. They will tell you that God is all knowing, all powerful, and everywhere, then they turn around and act like it was some sort of surprise for him that Adam sinned. They make it appear that God was unaware of Satan in the garden, and all that would happen when Satan got to promote his reason for being there. They claim the scriptures as the words of God, and then ignore those that do not support their theory. For instance, Ephesians states that some people where predestined to be in Christ Jesus before the foundations of the World. Read that again. That statement makes it clear that man was predestined to be a sinner, and Jesus was predestined to be the propitiation for their sins, before Adam and Eve were created. God created the world and everything in it knowing exactly what was to happen to each and every creature that would inhabit it. The works of God were finished in the first 6 days of creation. Those works have been carried out since then, and they will culminate exactly like they were supposed to. Satan was not a mistake. Adam and Eve were not mistakes. What you see is what it was created to be. Either God is all powerful, all knowing, and everywhere, or the scriptures are a lie.Everything goes across God's desk. Everything. The apostle Paul made it very clear, but those who want to take credit for their salvation rather then acknowledge that God and God alone determines who receives the grace for receiving salvation. Grace is not just one gift, but it is a lot of abilities and situations rolled into the lives of those who were predestined to be saved. No one gets to choose anything about their lives before they are born.Everything about us was strictly decided by our creator. You cannot make any choice with anything other then what has been created within you. Since you had no choice about those abilities, free will is not possible. You are, and you will be what you were created to be. You could have been born into a tribe of people somewhere in the darkest jungles of Africa, and lived and died without hearing of Jesus. You could have been born a crack baby to crackhead parents that were not married and never gave Jesus a second thought. You could have been subjected to all manner of horrors or born into a christian family in an ideal family atmosphere. None of that is by choice. You could have been born half witted or a genius. None of that was by choice. What you are, and what happens to you are not of your doing. Now if the opportunity to change is granted to you, then somewhere along the way you will be able to hear, and apply the good news to your life.

[@dorotaneff8796]

Maybe God in all HIS KNOWING forsees every possible outcome to every choice that we, as individuals, would ever make. Then free will make sence.

[@TarzanHedgepeth]

If you really believed that, you wouldn't be bothered, because then you should believe those gentlemen left out everything you said because God mandated that they leave it out. Then you are bothered by God's decree, ironically. So, it would seem, in being bothered, you are bothered by God... Which then you will believe that you being bothered by Him is something He wants for you. Now why do you think God wants you to be bothered by Him? But you are bothered by your own lack of seeing. The Word of God is that we deceive ourselves. The Word of God is that we are never tempted by God to sin. The Word of God says that we sinned, not God. God is not the author of sin. Predestination by God means that He knew what people would do and prepared their rewards. He did not make us do anything. I have won many chess games by knowing how my opponent was going to respond. I didn't make the choices for my enemy - I just knew them better than they knew themselves.

[@stussysinglet]

I agree that this is pretty much what the modern Bible says and teaches. Personally I think this is also proof that the Christian God is a projection of mans mind and none of this is literally true even if there may be allot of non literal truth with in this.

[@ibperson7765]

@@stussysinglet No thats not what it teaches. Better answer: God is Good and Sovereign, and evil exists. How? 1. The Bible does not teach that the unsaved will go to Hell to suffer forever, because they won’t. There will be fairness, and then annihilation. They will “be no more”, “vanish like smoke in the wind”, “be destroyed”, “be completely destroyed”, “be entirely destroyed”, “be totally burned up”, and just in case someone still can’t get it, they will “be just as if they had never existed”. This and much more against a single verse translated as “eternal punishment” which in the Greek clearly indicates the consequence is eternal, as for example in the verse about judgment day where each soul has an “eternal judgement” (which clearly does not take forever). All other verses say stuff like thrown into an eternal fire, always careful never to say the one thrown is eternal but the place thrown to is. 2. We are more than matter. There is a long game here. A very long game. And it is Good. 3. QED. That’s it. But another concept: You cannot have progress or mercy or relief or love or good or ANY KIND OF MEANINGFULNESS AT ALL without evil. If you’re in charge of a basketball game, would you make it laughably easy for one team to win. That’s not actually even a basketball game. And no one would be interested. And your imagined perfect life is not actually life. You can never enjoy ultimate union with the Divine without a real life first. Comparing the temporal with the eternal doesn’t work. If the fine-tuning of the universe has told us anything, it is that ANY coherent reality is incredibly difficult to create or maintain. You don’t know the purpose, the methods, the challenges, or especially the final and eternal outcome. That said, I agree He chooses whom to bring to Holiness via redemption.

[@stussysinglet]

@@ibperson7765 personally I think it’s all true metaphorically just as there is truth in other non Christian religions and spirituality..sorry but I strongly reject the Bible and Jesus is the one or only way

[@derekhaywood1844]

You speaking some truth’s ; but you also are some false stuff. This earth isn’t spinning.