Correcting the overflexion in the horse's neck

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This video is about Correcting the overflexion in the horse's neck

[@ArttoRide]

The thing to remember is that when the horse is stretched it should not be on a loose rein but a soft light contact without any backwards tension on the rein keeping the slack out. It is normal as you and your horse are just learning this to lose it once in awhile so keep up the good work and know that you will both improve over time and you will soon be able to maintain contact all the way down. Keep up the good work and you'll get there.

[@seekinglightalways4836]

So enjoyed this American dude with the beard, training Dressage. REALLY and Truly love the training methods. The fluidity from back-to-front is beautiful. Many thanks for your expertise and your non-European breath of fresh air. Appreciate and respect all the European Dressage trainers I've had barking at me for 30 plus years and love this approach even more because of that.

[@12345KATETHEGREAT]

oh my god, thank you! I see so many dressage riders curling their horses neck in because it's "pretty" and even a lot of horse trainers giving bad advice. Luckily, my trainer is very good with me and my horse and has very similar teaching skills to yours. Handi, my horse, came from a bad home and is a very nervous, forward horse. He was ridden with his head up like a giraffe with his chin tucked in, we've been working for a long time to get him to stretch long and low. His gaits are finally getting really nice and balanced ( he's only 15.3 but has HUGE gaits) He's come a long way :) He's around where this horse is now actually (stretching)...

[@debwilliams9079]

The best "back yard Ammy rider on a schooling First Level horse" lesson ever! It's 30 minutes long but I couldn't wait to get out and try this stretching warm up on my horse, smiled the entire time!

[@ArttoRide]

We do have his owner do ground work with him and did that for some time before we started riding him and he was lunged on the day of this video before he was ridden. Our rule of thumb is that the horse must have developed enough strength across it top line to be able to carry the weight of the rider with out hollowing, if they have not developed to that point we would only do ground work.

[@xTalkingMountainsx]

Wow, this is what I call really good classical dressage :-)

[@juanb.ledgard6647]

Great video, glad I bumped into it. Very informative and just reinforced the way I was taught to do that. Sad people want to just only think about that show frame and many times it doesn't work for that or other things if horse is not coming thru the back. Sometimes this wrong frames, broken in wrong vertebreas, are by cranking the necks to obtain them. Thanks a lot, like a lot of your videos. Would love to attend some of your clinics!!

[@lclarke7280]

I love this!!! I've seen SO many over bent horses!!

[@pennies4pawsrescue654]

SO NICE to see classical training!

[@MaritsView]

Great video, this is how horses like it.. they like it to be able to stretch their necks.. finally someone who understands Thanks buddy!

[@katttleesi]

This is one of the best looking horses I have ever seen, being worked this correct way. I wish I could find either a trainer who uses techniques like this or a horse (so that I could train by myself) for me. I would like to see more full-length training videos like this in the near future, maybe even with some horses who are not very high up the training scale as this one. Greetings from Croatia and Europe! xx

[@lisas1913]

Thank you for this video of an entire session with this horse. How is Karen encouraging the horse to stretch down and out? (Especially after he curls in/breaks at the neck) I really like your observation that riders should reward "better" rather than repeat an exercise over and over until it's perfect! In my experience that leads to tension in both myself and my horse.

[@ArttoRide]

Karen is simply sending the horse on with her legs and loosening the reins until see feels the horse come thru to the bit, that is take a correct contact without pulling or over flexing.

[@ArttoRide]

While Friesians are big horses and they are often bought by larger people for that reason, they actually have very long and weak backs that take longer to condition to carry weight then a smaller horse. If you are around many of these types of horse you'll notice that a great percentage of them are very sway backed.

[@ArttoRide]

So if he is able to stretch when you lunge and stays there in a nice steady rhythm, it may be that when you get on, his back can't support your weight, it collapes under you and the head comes up higher, like a ship that's broken in the middle the two ends stick high out of the water, until it sinks! also check you saddle fit, if it is causing pain the horse will also throw it's head up.

[@lacyfittings]

This horse has amazing natural cadence

[@ArttoRide]

In fact the harder you pull the worse it becomes because once you pull the neck up too high the horse drops it's back and braces upwards against the hand.

[@ArttoRide]

So the answer to your question is usually the same, let your hands and body relax and give the rein so you are not pulling the horse behind the bit and send the horse ahead of your legs.When things go wrong riders tend to tense up and that's the worst thing you can do! So, be Zen, stay relax.

[@ArttoRide]

If the horse is sound, begin with lunging only until the horse's mouth quietly excepts the bit and you see a little line of foam around the edges of his mouth.The horse should be stretching into the contact with the bit,check out the videos on our site about lunging.Do not ride the horse until you have done the preceding.If you ride before the horse has excepted the contact with the bit you are surely going to encounter resistance.

[@nucks93]

Its crazy how much the abdominals engage in comparison from the beginning to the end of the video.

[@Passion4Horses100]

Beautiful horse and great riding! I was wondering what the actual aids are to ask the horse to stretch?

[@ArttoRide]

Mostly it is just sending the horse forward from your legs and softening with your hands by releasing when you feel that the horse is seeking downward. In other words, you open the forward door and allow the horse to find it's way down into soft hands that never pull the neck backwards into the body or shoulders of horse. It actually takes very little pressure to soften the mouth of most horses.

[@nataliedavies69]

That was amazing! I am so glad I found A2R!!! Beautiful movement on that horse and he looked so much more comfortable as his work progressed. Lovely riding and awesome coaching too! Inspiring :)

[@lauriedempsey3233]

The Sacrolilium realligned by an equine chiropractor with accupuncture and balance of the levels and angles of the front feet really help too.

[@taylerupokay]

Great video! We are working on the very same thing at the moment. My horse has a tendency to lose his relaxation through this and his big open trot/ big open canter start to become more of a run. We will go onto a circle and try to let him relax into it but sometimes it is very challenging. Thanks for the video, very helpful.

[@ArttoRide]

The problem you are describing is usually one of the rider as well as the horse. I have been coaching Dressage riders for around forty years so I have observed a few of them. Even the most relaxed riders get a little bit tighter in their bodies the , minute that ride down the center line, they start trying harder so to speak to be accurate.

[@EmmaSmith-mr7kz]

This is lovely work to watch...if only I had the same seat - what a beautiful horse.

[@MariiaCaballos]

Beautiful movements

[@siffer74]

Very educational. Quite happy I found this video :) Please do a follow up on his progress.

[@DrewPayette]

Thanks so much for your videos. I have learned a great deal. I sadly have broken my OTTB's neck over, however I will work as you have here to fix the issue. I have a question about the exercis at 19:50 in the video, after the horse has warmed up and is stretching out and not breaking over, are you asking his head to come up (at working trot) without breaking over to sort of reinforce proper head carriage for a few strides while not broken over? Or did moving from working trot (head higher) to more extended trot head lower serve as just a rest? Also with a horse that is broken over would you want to ideally have him stretching his nose all the way out when travelling low? Tail-swishing is expected if he is engaged through the hind/back? Not sure if you are reading comments from this video anymore but help would be so appreciated.

[@ArttoRide]

HI, we simply bring the head and neck as high as we can without losing the back or breaking in the neck. If either of those things happen we let the neck back out until it is no longer flexing in the wrong place. Yes, with these kinds of damaged horses we want then to push the nose out rather than curling over. Usually when you get the horse to really stretch the neck out from the base of the shoulder the over flexion goes away. Tail swishing is a sign of something bothering the horse as in making it uncomfortable, so check saddle fit or sore feet, there are many things that can cause that.

[@DrewPayette]

ArttoRide Thanks!

[@ArttoRide]

Yes, he used to be going around with his head straight up in the air.

[@jotjiporji]

The horse is beautiful, I can't wait to see how he improves!

[@craisydazy18]

I have learned so much from this video. I look forward to applying what I have learned to my own riding and training. Thank you!

[@leannemoore3908]

Great Video I had the same problem with my pony and my coach has helped me with same stretch exercise and his neck has changed shape but any tension and he reverts to his suck back frame will now try using longer frame in leg yield and shoulder in exercise. Thank you

[@ArttoRide]

This is at one of our monthly clinics at Peppertree Farms in Poway, CA!

[@rebeccarickly3547]

THIS is the video I needed! Will be doing homework asap!

[@EquineBallet]

I really appreciate that you go into detail behind the anatomy and physiology of the dressage horse as it pertains to the movements. And I have a question for you, I have acquired a rescue horse that was nearly starved to death. He has since recovered his weight and has started working again. He has competed up to second level approx.18 years and is a very willing horse, so my question is what program would you suggest to rehabilitate a horse such as this one considering his age and condition?

[@Marixxen2]

really great work, but coudn't this been easier corrected with groundwork?

[@66ElleCamino]

Great work! Question: My warmblood is a Friesian / Oldenburg X. Very much Baroque style, so he naturally carries himself over flexed and high on the shoulder. I don't want to "monkey" with or interfere with his natural movement but sometimes he is like a "periscope"! How can teach him that stretching out instead of curling in (on super loose rein) ? In the lounge he gets it pretty well. When I am on him, it's like he just wants to up there with me. Like dancing cheek to cheek :) Any thoughts?

[@ArttoRide]

Remember you'll be able to stay relaxed when you really know what your doing, so if you find that every time you go to a show your not riding up to the level you'd like be at or can't stay "Relaxed", do more home work!

[@Marixxen2]

Thank you for responding. Nice to know!

[@LaurenLambChop]

Sadly the behind the vertical doesn't seem to be penalized enough.... from everything I see.

[@minimeandme9692]

Loved watching this video but also the camera lady. She is funny. when she was looking for you i could hear her think...ohh there you are (when she was searching for you) hihi

[@humanity941]

Nice video hello from Australia

[@michelleroberts3780]

I will definitely try this next time, the only problem I have is that the horse I ride will speed up any time he can, so he won't relax at all. Even at the long rein, he just wants to keep speeding up. (trot, canter)

[@trevormorris5677]

I feel like I have learned so much from your videos and especially loved this full length training video. I have one question, my 5 year old thoroughbred is just starting to understand this type of contact, when she stretches all the way down - it only lasts a couple of seconds before she pops back up. Once she pops up, I need to re-gather my reins and start over, my trainer says I should only ask for the stretch as far as she can maintain it without losing the contact.. please advise.

[@gurunpetursdottir8360]

Great work! I will use this to work on my horse with the same problem.

[@Tito20929]

Thank you, great work training & riding wise, you are an artist, thank you for making a better horse changing in 1/2 an hour

[@epelham100]

This horse seems to always be looking to stretch down to the length of the rein. Is that from lots of training being riden correctly? My horses first insticnt is to go above the bit every two seconds as i make mistakes riding him not so good.

[@SuperRich1997]

this is a awesome video !! explaining everything and nice technique from rider and good tips from the coach !

[@FantazeeHJT]

That horse has great potential if he gets over the over-flexing. She will just need to very careful in the show ring because if he does come behind the vertical, it will really hurt his score. Good Luck!

[@victorialazareva]

Oh myyy what a beautiful landscape! Where was it shot?

[@handlethis69]

Would a chambon before under saddle work help his breaking? Perhaps to help encourage the idea then somehow transfer it to under saddle? I have started riding a horse with the breaking issue but not as severe.

[@ArttoRide]

Yes, by all means use the chambon when you lunge before riding. Horses that are broken in the neck usually just crank their neck over when you use side reins. If the horse will stretch without anything on, chambon or side reins, on the lunge, just do that.

[@CDEdriver]

Excellent job to you both and the camera person for this great video. His stride is huge I hope Karen ate her Wheaties before riding this guy! ;-) Thanks!!

[@maryanneking9855]

Always love to watch this video! Such good information!

[@66ElleCamino]

Thank you for your reply.

[@pennies4pawsrescue654]

Will you ever consider doing a clinic in Ontario, Canada?

[@ArttoRide]

+S Genesis We travel all over the world for clinics and would be happy to come to you if there is enough interest where you are. Let us know if you would be interested in hosting an Art2Ride clinic and we can discuss pricing and booking. Please contact us at: [e-mail]

[@freedompegasus]

+S Genesis is this happening? I live in Ontario and would love to even just fence sit

[@eyelikediamonds]

+S Genesis Im also in Ontario, would love to participate and know at least 5 people who would join.

[@pennies4pawsrescue654]

+M Laliberte I am looking into coordinating a clinic near the GTA however need enough interest to be able to run a successful clinic.

[@elizabethhollenberg3068]

Where do you get your side reins? I can't find them long enough. Thank you. I love your training!

[@ArttoRide]

+Elizabeth Hollenberg HI, we order them from Mary’s Tack, you can also take the ones you have to a shoe maker and let him add some length.

[@elizabethhollenberg3068]

Good idea! Thank you....I love, love, love your training videos!

[@JG-mt3rp]

LOVE that horse, wow

[@ArttoRide]

We travel all over the world for clinics and would be happy to come to you if you would be interested in hosting an Art2Ride clinic! Just send us an email at: [e-mail] for all the info and pricing. You can also submit videos to us via our video critique service on our website at: art2ride(dot)com if you would like assistance with your training. Thanks for your wonderful comment and your continued support!

[@anaandinnateamsuburbanlife996]

what bit are you using on him?

[@ArttoRide]

+Anastasiya Shary french link snaffle, the only bit that I use.

[@anaandinnateamsuburbanlife996]

Thank u!

[@elliebierach4584]

Look at those strides!!!

[@bewildered75]

Thank you very useful video.

[@gsukrw06]

Might you try lifting the shoulder rather than dropping the neck? It seems like dropping the neck and head would maintain the problem with lack of engagement behind, and thus over flexion through the 3rd vertebrae...I would think maybe schooling in a hackamore to break the bitting cycle of overflexion and starting with basic transitions then building to spiral and shoulder fore, ignoring the head completely?? He could have his nose in the air for all I care. Your opinion?

[@ArttoRide]

Perhaps you can describe for us how you would, "lift the shoulders". In correct dressage we lower the hindquarters once the horse has developed enough strength thru correct development of the back, which can only happen if the horse stretches forward and down until we find the level that allows the horse to engage it's back. Over time the withers will lift up out of the shoulders and the horse will develop a much more uphill posture. This can only happen thru correct development, lifting the horse's neck before the back has developed will create a leg mover that throws out its front legs without coming through behind. We see this all the time now in the dressage ring and it only leads to lameness and a very shorten useful life of the horse. Every time a horse shoots its front legs out without coming thru behind to the same degree it puts enormous pressure on the joint of the the fronts legs and hocks. You will notice that horse that have been trained that way look as if the hind legs trailing the front legs. This kind of movement should be marked down but sadly the Dressage federations around the world have lost sight of what dressage is supposed be according to their own rules! Judging needs to stop being a popularity contest as the horses are the ones suffering for the judges lack of knowledge or lack of willingness to buck the trend for fear of retribution by powerful and wealthy competitors. People who care about the sport need to start speaking out before Dressage turns into another form of Walking horses. Tell the judges and the Federations to start following their own rules!

[@gsukrw06]

Lift in the shoulder comes through the half hault, which also puts the horse more on his hindquarter. So really being on the hindquarter is the cause of the shoulder lifting. But you can't be on the hindquarter if the horse is on the forehand and the shoulder doesn't have lift, so it's somewhat of a symbiotic relationship. Give and take. I wouldn't lift the neck, I just wouldn't care where he put it. I also start my young horses and every ride with long and low, but a horse can drop his head without working through his back which is why you must stretch through contact; contact being about 5lbs of pressure from the horse. He must take the bit down. It's not the lowering of the head so much as it is the "push" into the rein. Then when I have the long and low push I can half hault with my seat and leg and ask the hind to come through, which will lift the shoulder. But this horse seems to have mastered long and low without push or contact, and he will always cheat because he's also mastered evasion by curling and overflexing. He's taken your rein aid from you and thus he's taken long and low from you. So my thinking would be to ignore his head and ride his body.

[@shirehorse91]

ArttoRide Well said, I could agree with you more. You did amazing work with this horse and the dramatic change to the neck posture and stride is very noticeable.

[@brandystromme6407]

ArttoRide I agree with this in it's entirety. Especially considering the Walking Horse reference. I have Walking Horse clients and have been to the big shows etc. Let's do our best to follow the classical methods and further prevent incorrect riding and training.

[@ArttoRide]

For weekly updates on new posted training videos and upcoming clinics, please join us on Facebook under: arttoride@gmail(dot)com or check out our website at: art2ride(dot)com

[@ArttoRide]

Many horses develop the bad habits that they have due to being ridden too soon.

[@MariiaCaballos]

Beautiful movements