Deconstructing Ben Shapiro on Religion

[@CosmicSkeptic]

Watch my in-person debate with Ben Shapiro here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r6TTgYyZf618ac0si=JtX-1Q6Rj5GPi3mI

[@mydogsbutler]

Another well done video. IMO your claim that natural selection selects for survivability not truth is incorrect though.. The issues are intertwined. it's choosing truth that allows organisms to survive and, given enough time, to develop high levels of cognition capable of uncovering even greater truths. Truth is a driver of successful evolution because it makes it more likely for an organism to continue to exist. While someone can claim well then why does belief in falsehoods exist then? Or why do simple lifeforms vastly outnumber complex ones? Or why am I still single while some religious fundimentalist has ten kids?. And the answer is that this is a statistical probability over vast periods of time not an absolute that applies to any given circumstance or individual On an individual level someone can get into a car accident and meet their signficant other in the hospital while the more cautious driver missed the opportunity. Someone contrarian might point out bacteria on Earth has been around longer than mankind and might outlive us. This does not consider that without intelligence even bacteria. along with all life on earth, is eventually doomed when the sun starts its final journey to red giant or some other cosmological level catastrophe completely sterilizes the earth. It's not something we tend to think about in our daily lives but it will one day happen unless we do something about it. The average density of the universe is just a few atoms per square meter. It's a harsh cold universe mostly extremely inhospitable to life other than in tiny zones for brief moments in time. An Intelligence uncovering truths about the universe to work through these sorts of extinction level problems is the only chance for survival any life on earth has.

[@mydogsbutler]

One other inaccuracy... you claimed your coffee doesn't have the potential to become a chicken. According to modern physics it does. The reason why you've never experienced such a seeming miracle is because the chances of all the atoms in your coffee randomly reorganizing themselves into a chicken is extremely unlikely. We are talking a denominator so huge it would be hard to expresion using normal number notion..

[@nit11]

​​@@mydogsbutler I disagree. Our brain is wired for survival, not for truth. Think in all the cognitive bias that we have, they are good for survival, but awful to discover the truth Any optical illusion is a lie. Seeing faces in random spots or patterns is false... But look for patterns and faces help you survive

[@mydogsbutler]

@@nit11 You can certainly disagree but it will not change in a billion years our sun will begin its progression to red giant. The only chance of survival any life has on this planet has is intelligent life. And one of the properties of intelligent life is the ability to descern truth. Or put another way, any planets with lifeforms that took branches down the evolutionary tree that didn't involve a branch that seeks truth are eventual doomed to extinction unless by grace of intelligent life saving it.

[@mydogsbutler]

@@nit11 From an evolutionary standpoint any planet without intelligent life is doomed to extinction. Due to the immense timespans involved, we usually just don't think about evolution this way. Its a funnel leading all life to extinction with the sole exception of intelligent life that has the possibility, not certainty, of avoiding it.

[@bubsybrown8308]

"Being a religious believer is a consistent struggle with logic" Can't argue with Ben on that (if he'd stopped there).

[@unamusedcaveman9235]

Logic of the universe*. If you're gonna dunk on someone, at least quote them correctly.

[@MsBukke]

@@unamusedcaveman9235 that's the joke

[@ziploc2000]

He is indeed bang on there, that ought to be repeated on every atheist channel. You can't consistently be logical and be religious.

[@marcuscaballarius2159]

@@ziploc2000 Secular society is breaking down obvious realities left and right. I've seen more accusations of "wrong think" and blatant disregard for physical realities by secularists in the last 5 years than by religious people over the span of my whole life.

[@briannyob7799]

@@marcuscaballarius2159 for example?

[@bjorsam6979]

Hearing Ben's fast-talking, urgent and aggressive voice mixed over a tranquil piano piece induces more cognitive dissonance than any religios claim ever could.

[@ZiplineShazam]

HAHAHaha !! Well Said !

[@hellomynamesninooo6017]

If you slow him down, he sounds super drunk. Makes him much more bearable :)

[@AnnoyingNewslettersPage6]

@@hellomynamesninooo6017 if you slow him down he actually sounds like a normal human being. He normally talks not just fast but like he learned to speak by watching videos on fast forward.

[@HurricaneJD]

bjorsa M if I ever want to kill myself but I can't quite do it I am just going to listen to Ben Shapiro for five minutes and I'm pretty sure I'll be dead soon there after lol

[@MrNixtt]

I wouldn’t call Ben's voice aggressive. Maybe a premature boys one with some nerves

[@lambda3553]

With all of this content being put up on youtube, it's so refreshing to see somebody actually provide a calm and reasonable retort

[@anthonykenny1320]

Alex I am becoming more impressed with your sincerity and adherence to rationality every time I watch one of your pods I wonder if you could suggest a reading list for those of us interested in exploring your ideas in greater detail

[@Drikonn]

"Facts don't care about your feelings" "I don't feel comfy if I'm not god's special boi"

[@milascave2]

@Packe76 Not to mention that facts are not life forms with emotions. They are a bit of correct information that does not care about ANYTHING.

[@AntitheistHuman]

Yup, opinion has over rushed facts, but more and more people are noticing it at least, and may change for better. As far as we know we have only one life and one chance, people must stop wasting time worshiping imaginary friends and live freely

[@kso35]

Too funny!!

[@TrueFork]

religion may help you sleep better at night, while rationalism wants you to wake up

[@berjanbeen7188]

I always thought his use of your here was deliberately leaving room for his own feelings.

[@timpoolssentientbeanie5646]

The Shapiro paradox: trying to figure out when he’s being disingenuous versus when he’s just not nearly as bright as he pretends to be.

[@ThePostmanRUSA]

What’s the difference?

[@MrPancaker57]

Being an intentional piece of shit and just being a dumbass and also still a piece of shit

[@siraf1234]

@@ThePostmanRUSA One is him being disingenous on purpose and one is him not doing it on purpose.

[@user-gk9lg5sp4y]

As far as I can see Benny is always being both

[@teresaamanfu7408]

More so the latter. The Dunning-Kruger effect

[@rikardotsamsiyu]

Ben: “Believing 2 + 2 = 4 is not evolutionarily beneficial.” Me: “Ah, yes! Because a caveman who sees two lions approaching from the left and another two approaching from the right yet only takes enough friends and weapons to defeat three lions would have definitely survived and passed his genes to the next generation.” *Edit:* Whoa! This comment blew up. Just to clarify, I’m neither an atheist nor evolutionist. I simply know a terrible argument when I hear one.

[@shanujwilson1204]

Up Shapiro's ass... Bravo!

[@Babycakex]

So as the lions approaches he leaves with his friends to fight them? Also what difference does people make vs fricking lions, does he round up 20 people vs 25, this analogy is horrendous.

[@RoseLikesFootball]

@@Babycakex The analogy works better with other examples. A group of people who learn to count how much food each person needs per certain amount of time can have a goal to collect towards, and not risk themselves striving for excess or risking falling short of enough food to feed everyone. A group of people who learn a system to count days and years will have a better understanding of seasons, and thus better be able to farm and grow crops, as they would be more able to accurately predict how long crops take to grow, how many days they have to grow them, when to grow them, and which crops can be grown in certain parts of the year. You could go on. Knowing even the most basic math is an evolutionary advantage.

[@Babycakex]

@@RoseLikesFootball now that is a beautiful analagy

[@Babycakex]

@@RoseLikesFootball it was never the premise I was opposing, would be foolish to do so imo, no just the ops analogy.

[@johnfairweather9188]

I’m an atheist and I am not angry at all. I am 72, and have had a fine life with good health, love, and safety. I am a morally good person who doesn’t need any made-up religion and god to tell me how to lead my life.

[@epicsex9072]

I hope you'll open your heart before it's too late

[@AverageMitch1987]

Any advice on what makes you content? Or what gives you purpose?

[@johnfairweather9188]

@@AverageMitch1987 Thank you for your questions. By "content", I'm going to assume you mean what makes me happy. The answer is a long list of things that include my family and friends, reading, music, humour, my hobbies, and nature just off the top of my head. Your question about purpose is very interesting. I believe that the universe has no purpose for us because it doesn't even know we exist or care that we do. The only purpose nature seems to have for us is to reproduce and continue the species. But because we are evolved to the point where we can understand our reality and the finality of death, humans have developed religion and gods as a way to explain the universe and a way to pretend that we will go on forever, even after death. Of course, there has never been any evidence for any god in the history of mankind or for any afterlife. So what is someone's purpose? That is up to you. You decide what you want to do with your life. You can make the best of your life or you can waste it using drugs and booze to mask your poor choices and decisions. Some people rise above their bad circumstances and others squander the best opportunities. In the long run, you do what you do until you die.

[@danhtran6401]

There is no purpose without God. There is no good without God. Those are two basic facts. When you eliminate God from the equation, all you have left is constant consumption, constant pleasure seeking, constant self-absorption. After all, that's what Epicurus believed. When God is part of the equation, then it flips to sacrificing, selflessness, seeking eternal life. Trading this life for the next. Good can't exist without God. In a godless world, me stabbing you in the back is just atoms rearranging itself. So if you're looking for the ultimate purpose, seek out God. The journey alone will give you some sense of purpose....

[@S20ACE.]

Good for you !!!!

[@xensonar9652]

Ben Shapiro got to age 12 and said "I have reached my final form."

[@slevinchannel7589]

@angelmakersweetrolls IVE GOTTA ask my fellow Atheists: Do you have any idea that an Army is build right-now? A Theocracy isnt just wished-up by some 'random Extremist-Dudes' in 'some random Basements'. Watch the new video of The New York Times "The Real Threat to Democracy" and at least the Third GOP-Video of "Some More News"., if not all 3. MAGA and ALSO Christian-Nationalists are literally on a Recruitment-Spree and planning Sabotage that my fellow Leftists are unaware of and my fellow Atheists are unaware of. Maybe you understand why my i panick-coment trying to make People understand the Kent Hovind's of this world are in-FACT more ORGANIZED than People know.

[@yougotgamesonyophone697]

lmfao bro true

[@anotheratheist6282]

🤣

[@vanguard1427]

was he a pokemon at the time.

[@xensonar9652]

@@joannware6228 I'm not impressed.

[@StatedClearly]

Aww, thanks for the shoutout! I know it sort of sucks when you see someone else just did a video on the same topic you chose but I actually love seeing multiple takes from different thinkers.

[@jonathanprice7157]

Who are you?

[@20july1944]

Your channel suggests you know about genetics and evolution. How about origin of life? Are you well-educated in that?

[@grabka1984]

@@20july1944 depends on what you mean by origin of life. Do chemical reactions between molecules that replicate qualify? I'm assuming you have an answer to your own question and I'm super excited to hear it. I'm sure it'll be good for a laugh at least.

[@20july1944]

@@grabka1984 No, I'm looking to someone with some familiarity if not expertise. Are you familiar with the issue?

[@Stratosarge]

@@20july1944 Check out his other channel Jon Perry - Genetics & Evolution Stated Casually, there's a lots more info there. Or you could start by reading Nick Lane's book called Vital Question.

[@bulgna]

I love the leap in logic from "Well every change has to come from something" to "therefore there's this very specific deity I believe in"

[@dinamosflams]

you would've think christians, specially influencial ones, and think in a way work better around or surpass this leap, but instead they double down.

[@samuelmerkel2888]

@@dinamosflams I mean they don't need to think in a work around. That would assume that what they believe is evolving or changing at some rate, which it isn't. It just is what it is

[@monodescarado]

Indeed. I was suprised Alex didn't mention this leap, too. That being said, there was something in the way Ben phrased his final step: he said something akin to 'And this is what we might call God'. He gave himself a slight bit of room there by not saying 'And this is the Abrahamic God of the Bible'. If we were to be very generous to Ben, we could even argue that simulation theory or other first clauses could still fit into this slighlty vague sentence of 'And this is what we might call God'.

[@orpheus0108]

Every river has a river maker according to the religious. Not everything has to be intelligently designed. Things can be derived from natural processes. Actually, the mind and intelligence is something that is derived from nature. To claim it is a prerequisite to start the very natural processes that created it seems nonsensical and shows the arrogance of the mind. A watch is designed by a human brain but the human mind comes from a nature so the watch itself is still a natural phenomenon.

[@astroemerald3175]

Eveeything in existence came from nothing .

[@Lion50-86]

Ben Shapiro is a good example of what happens when you don’t pay attention in school

[@andrewwalker7340]

I'd actually say he paid way too much attention in a school that heavily teaches religion.

[@pjmlegrande]

I’d say he’s a good example of a person who assumes the inviolable truth of received beliefs and traditions unquestioningly and spends the rest of his life arguing in support of them. How can you go through your whole life that way? It seems so … limiting. Oh, and the simmering resentment and anger underneath it all. Hold on tight, Ben.

[@danhtran6401]

​@@pjmlegrandesame reasons all you miserable atheists band together....

[@duderyandude9515]

Alex has got the warm armchair and already had the beard, now he’s a real philosopher.

[@julsweaver]

It's all about the chair and beard combo, truly

[@rahmatputrasafira4775]

need an aesthetic mug beside him on the table there

[@MurshidIslam]

All he needs now is a top hat and a monocle.

[@arcticwolf6402]

His beard needs to be a little bit longer and only then will he be, let's say, complete!

[@ziploc2000]

Needs an open fireplace and leatherette wingback chair.

[@Shrektus]

Ben Shapiro be like : "Facts don't care about your feelings" Also Ben Shapiro: "God is real because I feel like it"

[@Devecs]

you'll be in my prayers. lets hope you can find god.

[@Shrektus]

@@Devecs you'll forget about me in less than 72 hours

[@emir5009]

😂😂

[@SESK98]

​@@Devecs😂

[@Devecs]

@@Shrektus still praying, hope you get better.

[@alright9483]

I love when genetically modified skeptic and Alex make videos on similar topic, it's great to hear two takes on something.

[@enochseibert3644]

And they’re both awesome!

[@allthingsconsideredaa]

Jon Perry from stated clearly and stated casually also made a video about this subject from a more scientific and biological perspective

[@MurshidIslam]

They are the same person.

[@allthingsconsideredaa]

@@MurshidIslam Genetically modified skeptic and Alex aren't the same person. Alex is cosmic skeptic I don't know GMS's name.

[@tolkiendil4806]

@@allthingsconsideredaa Drew

[@sabraallen7847]

I have watched your videos for years!! You have helped me tremendously get out of the rabbit hole. Thank you!

[@liul]

The "selling your house before it gets under water" should have been enough for everybody to never take this guy seriously.

[@nanonano2595]

sell it to the benevolent housing magnates who will buy underwater properties. Such as aquaman, namor and andrew ryan.

[@josephcoon5809]

Has anybody checked to see if any of the loudest mouths about rising sea levels have invested in the new projected waterfront properties?

[@jonathangeorge787]

@@josephcoon5809 I would expect the rich would've... Ocean front properties still high value and good investment in the short term. And also cities in florida are building sea walls to prevent property damage. This is not a good indicator to the veracity of climate change. Check out poorer neighbourhoods in coastal cities they are the ones affected first, Or island nations third world countries like bangladesh. The oceans are rising whether you believe in climate change or not.

[@josephcoon5809]

@@jonathangeorge787 “They are the ones affected first…” Affected by what? No city has fallen into the ocean yet…

[@julietfischer5056]

@@josephcoon5809- It's called flooding, and numerous cities have suffered serious inundations in recent years. If you haven't noticed, coastal areas around the world have been devastated during storms, and inland regions are also dealing with flooding. Yellowstone had flooding. So did Australia. Bangladesh has been hit since forever and now it's worse for them. But you won't accept climate until an entire city is uninhabitable through flooding and storm damage--and maybe not even then. You have to be driven out of your home for that to happen.

[@kevinwheesysouthward9295]

Ben’s point, on the Big Bang, is basically: if things were different, they wouldn’t be the same. Pretty insightful Ben.

[@holiheinrich2115]

H😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 so true. Still he owns the Art of talking without saying anything. 😂😂und

[@ChildrensRightsFirst947]

I'm new to this channel and I was about to unsubscribe if he started praising Ben.

[@MrMarinus18]

But also thiests have a FAR higher burden of proof than athiests do. Athiests don't claim to know how everything works or what the meaning of the universe is.

[@zarejonathan]

As someone currently struggling to figure out their own beliefs and religion, I found your video super helpful. As someone raised Christian, I will admit, I was a bit surprised by how non-agressively and methodically you presented your arguments, but I'm certainly grateful for it. I think videos like these are very helpful.

[@googletaqiyya184]

The Jews really don't want non-ethnic Jews to join. You never see them street preaching and recruiting, for good reason. No Jews at the door unannounced as far as I have ever heard. The Hollywood type Jews are actually a religion newer than Christianity. Their Talmud was written in the 3rd century and has some disgustingly insulting things to say about Jesus. Written by scholars opining about their faith. I am a Christian and love the peace I have discovered. Stay away from Catholicism. It actually is not a Christian faith because they have aspects not allowed in the Bible and pray to Mary, who is not God. Praying is Godly worship, and to nobody but God.

[@psf8428]

Nurture, conformity, mental health issues, take those away and you take away religion, simple really

[@krujuice]

I spent an amount of time as agnostic, and I do appreciate the honest conjectures that come from the agnostic atheists. Through history, philosophic ideas and science I have come to be a believer, however strictly from the Catholic perspective, as it includes the science behind the belief. I enjoy the conversations that these videos create. This is why on our interfaith podcast we include Christians, Islam and atheists. It's rather fun to hold conversations, rather than merely argue and name call.

[@kamekakarot]

​@@krujuice Where can I listen to your podcast?

[@yousseftarek5226]

Watch his debate withMohammed Hijab

[@PaulWTaber-zd8ds]

The “ought,is” part blew my mind, thanks for helping people learn you’re the man

[@StevieB33]

Reminds me of an old joke. 3 people are taken a kilometre away from from a perfect cake. The demon who's telling this joke says, "you may approach the cake by half the distance between you and the cake per hour". The first is a mathematician who throws their hands in the air and declares it to be infinite, and therefore impossible. The second is a philosopher who waggles their finger at the demon, declaring it to be Zeno's paradox, and impossible. The third, an engineer, starts out in the journey. The other two shout their derision, "you'll never reach it". The engineer responds, "in less than half a day, I'll be close enough for all practical purposes".

[@justyouraveragefox3561]

That made me LOL, thanks 😄

[@thomasfplm]

I heard a very similar one, but widout the philosopher and a bit more sexist (it would have been a beautiful woman instead of the cake.

[@biggerdoofus]

Good joke, but the first isn't a very good mathematician.

[@llamahguy7229]

@@biggerdoofus wdym, from a mathematical point of view it would take an infinite amount of time to get to the cake, its just that in practise humans have these things called arms

[@biggerdoofus]

@@llamahguy7229 I get that. What I mean is that there's a thing called "applied mathematics", as well as the issue of actually looking at the problem at hand rather than just blindly sticking it into a category. Even without the sloppiness that is attributed to engineers within the joke (which is itself actually valid math), the infinite amount of time solution doesn't make a lot of sense when you realize that both the cake and the people are 3d forms rather than points. In that sense, the engineer is actually a better mathematician than the mathematician, because the engineer understood what level of approximations is being used.

[@hershy1594]

Ben Shapiro is the epitome of the "I'm doing 1000 calculations per second and they're all wrong" meme

[@Earthad23]

Keep worshiping logic and reason, you won’t find any answers.

[@Conserpov]

@@Earthad23 You mean, blatantly wrong answers that you believe in on faith?

[@Earthad23]

@@Conserpov What’s your myth? What do you worship? Logic and reason? Where did the universe come from? Why are you conscious? These things aren’t so obvious unless you’re an arrogant child who thinks his brain is better than all the other brains.

[@txcangel]

That made laugh so hard :D thanks man :D

[@Conserpov]

@@Earthad23 _> What do you worship_ Psychologists call that "projecting". No, I do not have imaginary friends nor do I worship anything. Adults don't do that. _> Why are you conscious?_ Consciousness is no more than a function of the brain, like digestion is no more than a function of the stomach. All physiology and no magic whatsoever. Grow up.

[@Omegatonboom]

I think the most frustrating thing with Ben is his ability to communicate very effectively. So even if he's wrong he can make it feel like you are the one who is wrong.

[@maritmam6711]

hes manipulative and hostile. I sense the belt sometimes

[@artmarkham3205]

"Communicate very effectively" = "talk very fast and never shut up even when he's wrong". Although otherwise I agree.

[@goodbyepolarbears172]

I actually wanted to hear what he says to at least hear the arguments, so approached him with an open mind...but I couldn't bear the sound of his voice. To communicate ANYTHING effectively I'd have to get past that first!

[@deacondank6249]

I mean, he's a smart guy. Even if you disagree with a lot of what he says or you personally dislike him for honest/dishonest reasons, he knows how to make an argument. What bothers me about him (I am definitely being hypocritical here, because I feel like everyone is guilty of this on some level), is his level of confidence that his reason/logic is sound about the topics he covers. For example, in this video he seems pretty confident he can debunk atheism in 15 minutes, yet Alex does a better job at explaining Ben's arguments than he does himself.

[@apaar1426]

That is a common factor for many such people like Jordan Peterson, Zakir Naik and Sadhguru (I am Indian so these guys end up popping up a lot more). The thing is, like you said, their confident manner of speaking makes you consider that maybe this person is saying something that makes sense. Moreover, when it comes to videos where the two of them "show SJWs" their place, one thing to take note is that in most of these videos, they go against college students who do not have as much confidence as he does. Moreover, there is also the factor of the crowd that is present that cheers on as they "dismantles the arguments", not only solidifying the power dynamic, but also either drowning the person asking the questions arguments or shatters their confidence and makes them anxious and whatnot. Another classic example would be the entire Jordan Peterson Gender Wage Gap interview. Even though he claimed that he read studies and never gave us the sources, the fact that the interviewer was not able to rebut him brutally, got nervous and made strawman arguments makes it appear that he completely won the debate while Newman did have some good points, but she wasn't able to explain them well and rebutt him On the other hand, just like Alex pointed out, everytime they have gone against people of similar confidence, they have chickened out, like Ben during the BBC Interview and Jordan when he was on stage against Matt Dillahunty in which he choked a lot and tried to confuse Matt because he was unable to actually answer the questions and ended up beating round the bush.

[@jamesbruinsma8464]

For the longest time the “fine-tuned universe” theory had me believing in a higher power, but I think that the best explanation for this is that if any part of the universe turned out differently, we would not be able to observe it. The only universe that can exist from our perspective is this one.

[@bt3750]

It wasn't that the universe was "finely tuned" to us, it was that we developed and evolved to be the most successful under the conditions of this universe.

[@sagar65265]

@@bt3750 THIS! I don't know why this isn't obvious. Sure, if the gravitational constants had been even slightly different, THIS universe may not have existed. But some other one surely would have, and different forms of life could have potentially existed. In principle, those forms of life could have been more adaptable, more intelligent, stronger, etc.etc. It's a ridiculous argument that assumes complete knowledge of the conditions for the concept of life to exist and I'm so glad someone finally put this to words.

[@trinhkhanh2618]

​@@bt3750And that the universe is not "fine-tuned" or whatever, it just is what it is. Only the Homo Sapiens finds it beautiful.

[@htrayford122]

I think the fine tuning argument has three (fatal) flaws: 1. It’s a weak argument for god 2. It is internally incoherent 3. It assumes knowledge we don’t have. 1. What is a better argument for god? A. We live in a universe which could (albeit with unimaginably low probability) exist without god, or B. We live in a universe which is impossible without a supernatural creator? The fine tuning argument claims A, thereby admitting to the possibility that the universe does not need god. 2. The argument claims the probability of all of the fundamental constants falling in the ranges that support life as we know it is so small that it is more reasonable to believe in the miracle of creation. Because miracles, by definition, occur with probability = 0, it is incoherent to claim I should believe in a miracle because the alternative is too unlikely to be plausible. 3. The argument correctly claims that unimaginably small changes to the fundamental constants result in a universe that cannot support life as we know it. It then asks us “what is the probability that they would all fall into the life supporting range?” It then asserts this probability is small because the ranges are small. This makes the unstated (and unsupported) assumption that all values are possible. We simply do not know why they have the values they do and it is just as plausible to claim that no value other than that which we observe is possible as it is to claim that all values are possible. “What is the probability that they all fell into the life supporting range?” I don’t know, but it is greater than zero and might be 100%.

[@businessman3606]

I always remember in the confirmation classes my parents sent me too, the whole “explosion in a library creating a fully unabridged dictionary” quote. My rationalization laid in the idea of citing the sheer scale of the universe and the whole Monkey Typewriter Theorem, which kind of proved my point. Point is, in many examples regarding fine-tuning, they often understate the sheer enormity of the universe.

[@eliesaad]

As a computer scientist, I would like to say that the way Ben has interpreted Gödel's Incompleteness Theorems (among other incompleteness theorems) is completely inaccurate and disingenuous, especially when he disregards the advancements since Gödel (such as Turing completeness for example). I would also like to applaud you because this is one of your best (if not the best) videos you've ever done. Very well put together. Congrats, and keep up the good work! ❤

[@krypto-s-olus]

computer scientists, rise up!

[@staticinteger]

@@krypto-s-olus RISE! There are far more of us than people realise :) (Myself being one of yall! Hello brethren!)

[@boyonpc5499]

​@@staticinteger We rise

[@spaceisawesome1]

Yeah, Godel's incompleteness theorems (of which there are two, not one) primarily works over logical systems (with a particular emphasis on first-order logic), and what is possible to have proven based on these logical axioms and structures, such as the existence of the set of natural numbers. This is all very physical, and mechanical, and completely outside the realm of metaphysics that the religious folk like to extend towards. It feels as ridiculous as stating something like: "these set of equations are unsolvable, even though they are derivable, and therefore there must exist a god, because I cannot solve them, but I am sure someone can". It's bizarre. Like wot m8.

[@stephentaylor356]

Everything that comes out of Ben's mouth is inaccurate and disingenuous. Like most apologists he opens his mouth and lie just spill out. It's all they're good for.

[@yetanotherrandomyoutubecha4382]

There's a very telling interview Ben gave some years ago, where he basically explains the process by which he arrives at his opinions: He starts with the conclusion that his religion leads him to, then works backwards to try and find evidence to support those conclusions. It's pretty disappointing that someone who champions himself as a warrior of logic and reason bascially finds his world views through a process I can best describe as antiscientific. Edit: I think this kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z6O0kKCmncdqfrc is the interview he gave to Dave Rubin. The part I referenced is at around 7 minutes 10 seconds.

[@jaykanta4326]

It's called "post-rational justification" and most humans do it. It's something scientists are taught to recognize and avoid.

[@joannware6228]

"The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the learning of the learned I will set aside. Where is the wise one? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made the wisdom of the world foolish? For since in the wisdom of God the world did not come to know God through wisdom, it was the will of God through the foolishness of the proclamation to save those who have faith. For Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those who are called, Jews and Greeks alike, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength" 1 COL 1:17-25

[@yetanotherrandomyoutubecha4382]

@@jaykanta4326 I probably would have called it a kind of confirmation bias but what you describe seems more accurate

[@jaykanta4326]

@@yetanotherrandomyoutubecha4382 same thing, pretty much

[@tommore3263]

Rather odd that you think that the metaphysical ground of being and existence is a subject amenable to science. The sciences, the fruit of western Christian culture predicated upon the revealed intelligibility of nature by monk scholars, are themselves approaches to reality grounded in Aristotelian realism and his rational foundation for final causality. Prof Ed Feser is a very good source for insight as is Prof Peter Kreeft. God literally is REASON. Metaphysics transcends the merely natural sciences wonderful as their insights are.

[@ChicoThePhilosurfer]

Hey, Alex, thanks so much for the kind words about my channel! I started checking out your videos and really enjoyed them. You do great work over here!

[@brandonmartin8270]

NEVER STOP MAKING VIDEOS ALEX! You are a real one. 💯

[@sambogar1083]

Hey man, I basically never comment on youtube, but I wanted to say that your intellectual rigor is *so* refreshing. Even if the articulacy is (and I'm not proud of feeling this way) sometimes over-dry for what is ostensibly entertainment, the fact that you phrase things in such a way that your arguments cannot be reasonably misunderstood is a delight to listen to.

[@jockbw]

Same , but this was worth making the exception

[@flaze3]

Agree!

[@Straale10]

Great video

[@undead.rising]

Says the guy using the big words! :P

[@sambogar1083]

@@undead.rising lol. When in Rome...

[@CodyNelsonMusic]

I love that this was a legitimate response video, rather than a "lemme dunk on a famous dude" video. I also really appreciated how you took the arguments seriously, and even steelmanned the arguments when Ben didn't carry them through fully.

[@stormbytes]

Can't speak for legitimacy, but this response says more about how little Alex actually understands Ben Shapiro, that it discredits the latter's points.

[@YG36273]

@@stormbytesI agree, can you elaborate on your point?

[@jmdavison62]

@@stormbytes Whether Alex understands Ben Shapiro is irrelevant. He's addressing Shapiro's arguments.

[@deanought3695]

​@@stormbytesi have the same criticism as the above comment, but i have a question. Who is the latter? Alex or ben?

[@biigsmokee]

whats 21:14 if he didnt dunk on a famous dude lol

[@KingOfTheBritons96]

A year later, you're channel is back on top!

[@bookishbrendan8875]

You’ll always be the “most subscribed atheist KZbinr” in my heart, Alex! 🍺

[@YokaiX]

On a serious note, is DarkMatter2525 actually the most subscribed? Or is there someone else I'm not aware of? AronRa's pretty underrated too, I might add.

[@CAPSLOCKPUNDIT]

Someone needs to help Alex make his pitch to new viewers. The line at 21:34 could have been read more like: "A less subscribed KZbin channel could become the most subscribed channel (hint to those who appreciate what I am doing here)."

[@anthonyharty1732]

@@YokaiX Matt Dillahunty on the Atheist Experience is brilliant.

[@lightningmonky7674]

are we all forgetting the amazing atheist?

[@davidevans3223]

The free world only exists thanks to the bible that's a fact slavery was part of human history wasn't morally wrong back then there's more slaves now than any time in history outside the Christian world real slaves not modern day slaves also slave means Slavic white people. If it wasn't for the bible the Romans would still be feeding people to lions cannibalism in Africa and the America's they were eating each other and cultures don't just stop wife burning in India when a husband died his usually younger wife was burned alive stopped by Christians as well as the international slave trader's all over the world stopped by Christians the British empire. . The evil in the world China committing genocide north Korea a slave nation both atheist USSR before they went back to Christianity mass genocide look at the new religons veganisum new Hinduism or infinite gender theory where gender is a feeling outside of biology like a spirit and biology is bigoted or blasphemy. Or socialism killed more than any war also slavery and stealing not free. The atheists in the west want to tell you what you can do eat and even think denying science as bigoted. I'm a Christian because I believe God is more intelligent than any people who can't progress without guidance and will always lead to suffering and slavery. The bible gave us free will it favoured the good but had to allow evil or evil people would have replaced it evil like we see all around us TODAY

[@confidentinterval3603]

As a student of maths, your analysis of Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem is pretty much spot on. It's about what can be proved, not about the truths themselves.

[@TBOTSS]

And what has that to do with Ben's quote from Gödel about Platonism and Alex on the incompleteness theorems?

[@slevinchannel7589]

@@TBOTSS What can we do? -Join or Found a Union. -Read-up on Class-Struggle. -Make Movie-Nights with Codys Johnstons (and Second-Thoughts?) Videos as the Movies. -Discuss the GOP and various other Stuff on Barbeques, maybe even with Videos. -Ask Slevin-Channel, a Guy whos literal Hobby is to; i kid you not; give Watch-Suggests, to give you Cody-like Channels and/or Climate-Change-Coverage and/or various-other-stuff. -Maybe, if you have the money, buy some Neighbour-Kids Brilliant or Nebula. -Meddle with School-Boards and EPA's!

[@TBOTSS]

@@slevinchannel7589 Go back on your meds - you are relapsing.

[@HowBoutDemBoyzz]

@@TBOTSS yeah wtf was that reply? Seriously.

[@nigelbrayshaw2709]

I've suffered from oughtism all my life, thank you for helping me in my struggle to understand existence.

[@shekharmishra2788]

Underrated comment here everyone.

[@Owbly]

lol that's punny

[@coins_png]

I'm ought to give you props for that

[@galacticguardian2783]

Existentialism is a joke

[@ReasonableForseeability]

I wonder how they translated Hume into other languages. I speak modern Hebew. There's no good word for "ought" and no word at all for "is" (no verb to be in present tense.)

[@the_luggage]

I think I adore the humour in the video even more than the arguments, and that's saying something. New subscriber here, thanks!

[@thedemysticist6730]

I'll say this much, a year ago I was in the middle of a "faith crisis" as a JW and started watching Shapiro as I thought he had some fairly decent arguments... I also started watching you at the same time to be objective. Both you and Shapiro were able to help me reason that I was in a cult, while your logic defeated his. Plus I just can't stand his voice. Anyhow, thanks. Now to get out of this cult...

[@polpol2739]

the word cult as a specific meaning, dont use it lighty

[@thedemysticist6730]

@@polpol2739 I wouldn't say I'm using it lightly. I've been an elder and seen the inner workings of the religion and it's 100% a cult. You don't realize it until you want to leave and then people threaten to make your life miserable just for expressing a doubt.

[@polpol2739]

@@thedemysticist6730 I dont know where you were specificly or how you been treated, so I cant react on that but if i talk about christianity itself Jesus does not fit the conditions of a cult - a leader who did not ask anything matirial for himself, just wanted belief, claim to sacrifice himself so other could gain and told people to be very compassionate, loving and altroistic. thats not a cult leader by defenition who usually focuses on personal gain.

[@thedemysticist6730]

@@polpol2739 Not saying Jesus was a cult per se, but Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult.

[@jordanwardan7588]

@@polpol2739 jw = Jehovah's witness

[@SnootchieBootchies27]

The fact that Ben thinks that the reason that people don't believe in god is because of personal pain shows how completely out of touch he is. He's the kind of person that doesn't listen to what other people say and consider it, he only listens to try to find something he can argue against.

[@CcBig-v2y]

Ben is a narcissist.

[@serena841]

If anything, lots of people believe in God *because* of the emotional pain they have suffered.

[@ImortalZeus13]

It’s purely political. He identifies the left wing (enemies of religion, to him) as being a philosophy of weakness and refusing to deal with harsh truths, as such, atheism and anti-theists must be weak and avoiding pain.

[@Frosty_Cat614]

"Facts don't care about your feelings." Correct Ben, just like facts don't care about your beliefs.

[@allittakesisonebadday4957]

Nothing is "factual" about atheism, so you can't act like Ben is engaging in hypocrisy with this statement. There are arguments on both sides which are formidable. Don't act like religion is non-factual; also, "belief" is not indicative of factuality. Beliefs can be both factual and non-factual, I can't believe you default "beliefs" to opposing factuality or actuality. The notion that "facts don't care about your beliefs" is asinine, since your "beliefs" could _actually_ be the case. In other words, "beliefs" could be factual, thereby making the facts not only concern your beliefs, but complement your beliefs.

[@Frosty_Cat614]

@@allittakesisonebadday4957 Sure, beliefs COULD be factual, depending on the belief. But in Sharpio's case, and in many fundamental beliefs, his belief that marriage is defined by God for one man and one woman is not a fact. It's the fact that denying gay people the right to marriage is denying them equality under the law. Hence, facts don't care about his (and any other religions) beliefs.

[@trustthetruth2779]

@@Frosty_Cat614 How do you judge between right and wrong? Are you an atheist?

[@Frosty_Cat614]

@@trustthetruth2779 My conscience. How actions affect others and repercussions from such actions. Experience from life. Using logic. Really all kinds of things.

[@trustthetruth2779]

@@Frosty_Cat614 Do you believe in an objective morality?

[@Dihydrogen-Monoxide80]

This is an excellent video! I just love how calm you were when discussing this. also the cinema sins bit at 15:26 is Genuinely awesome.

[@AeroCraftAviation]

Ah, the fine tuning argument. When the water in the puddle counts itself lucky that the pothole was just the right shape.

[@epicbehavior]

That’s ridiculous. It’s more like the fact that evolution ever exists from a bunch of atoms bouncing around it the void. The fact that there is qualia and a first person perspective. Is sentience a fundamental property of a universe made if inanimate objects? There’s no reason in a materialist universe for the lights to be on. If emotions are possible, they must be a fundamental property of the universe. Apparently the universe can be happy, sad, angry, and horny. Why would species evolve if there’s no universal intelligence to guide inanimate systems to do so? The only reason living systems are pulled toward becoming more and more complex is because God wants to know itself fully.

[@googletaqiyya184]

Actually my argument assumes current physics in our current universe before life started. I avoid some of the idiots arguments if I give them that to start. All I need

[@Yacobsters]

I'd say the universe is a bit more complex than a puddle. I've recently found Jesus Christ and am seeking to test the logic of my faith. If you have the time and desire I'd like to answer any questions you many have if I am able to. Your time would be much appreciated! God bless 🙏

[@redd1910]

⁠@@Yacobsters What made you believe in Jesus Christ?

[@charlieluscombe9074]

@@Yacobsters Where did you find him I bet his dad's pretty worried rn

[@schmockram2463]

Everytime Ben says "Let's say", a unicorn dies.

[@user-gk9lg5sp4y]

An angel drowns it

[@HellonearthlABB]

😂

[@MickHaggs]

Can confirm, I'm the angel

[@rovsea-3761]

Since Unicorns don't exist as living animals, does this mean that Ben Shapiro never says "Let's say"?

[@schmockram2463]

@@rovsea-3761 No it means that he said it WAY too often.

[@wjpperry1]

Your reasoning is getting better and stronger year after year. I find it inspiring to see you change and progress when others just dig in deeper.

[@magewareinc]

I'm finally doing a deep dive into this channel after discovering it a fee weeks back and the Argument from Change has to be one of my favorite discussions so far.

[@epicteletubby155]

Ben: "Facts don't care about your feelings" ... "They only care about mine"

[@edgecrusherhalo]

Ben Shapiro: Facts don’t care about your feelings. Also Ben Shapiro: *subscribes to an ancient faith based belief system that relies solely on feelings

[@cephas888]

Explain the (corrected)statement "subscribes to ancient belief system that relies solely on feelings"?.....the correction is in relation to the fact every system is a system requiring faith. That labeling "faith based" is an attempt to smear its understanding implying people believe for no objective reasoning. I'll wait for an honest answer

[@edgecrusherhalo]

@@cephas888 There is a level of accountability in ideas established via collective observation and demonstration. Superstitious ideas have no comparable measure of accountability. They rely solely on faith. That is a massive difference.

[@urbandiscount]

@@edgecrusherhalo Judaism is "how do we do things as jews". That can include superstition and belief in a Supreme Being, and also atheism. God-faith is not required to be a Jew.

[@Horrorscope.s]

"what is change" was expecting the vsauce music to kick in

[@lukeriely4468]

I think he's more : My feelings don't t care about your facts. He just turns the table.

[@RavynSent]

Feser was one of my professors while I was studying in Pasadena. If you ever had him on I would definitely watch he’s great. I had him for 3 classes and every time, without fail, he would introduce himself and say “My name is Ed Feser, pronounced Phaser, like set phasers to stun. Or as I like to say it ‘set phasers to FUN!” Such an awesome teacher.

[@julianbufarull7602]

That sounded so lame tho

[@Psilocin-City]

It probably sounds cooler in person.

[@jesseparrish1993]

I'll always remember him as writing the only "I used to be an atheist" post that really made me believe the person used to think like me.

[@Milliardo66]

Your ability to talk about a literal cup of for about 20 minutes and not lose my interest is absolutely mind blowing. Your ability to dissect actually questions all the way to the very last detail is so refreshing and unique, keep it up.

[@seraphonica]

Ben's degrees are in political science and law. If we made a drinking game of all the subjects he touches on here where he attempts to speak as an expert, but has never professionally studied the topic, we would need someone with a law degree to get us out of jail and someone with a political science degree to spin the media coverage regarding it.

[@Elite7555]

*Everything* is political, you know. So "of course" he's an expert of everything...

[@kylezo]

Though to be fair, many influential thinkers and speakers throughout human history have been more than capable of injecting novelty and progress in all manner of areas they didn't necessarily specialize in. I mean, Shapiro is a partisan hack, but this isn't an argument by itself, it's just an elitist thing to say. His arguments fall apart just fine of their own accord without pretending one has to be properly qualified to have an opinion on something

[@theparagonal]

More importantly, he can be quoted as being "proud of not having learned anything in college".

[@cp3190]

Degrees in 2 useless subject which make dim people think they are smart.

[@breasonable4343]

@@theparagonal ha!

[@HidinginPublic]

Always love your work. From 2017 to now, it's great to hear well reasoned arguments

[@lloydau3610]

Hey it's that persona 4 guy

[@aleggs0963]

“Facts don’t care about your feelings” -a religious man

[@MugenTJ]

lol. Yeah. Reason despite quite robust, far from able to generate facts on that alone.

[@domx7zero157]

the ultimate irony

[@ismelllikemarijuana]

Yeah. I mean, I agree with that statement, but he’s hypocritical since religion mostly relies on feelings.

[@urmumsanapple]

​@@ismelllikemarijuana why yes, I believe that's the joke

[@sannmayy]

​@@domx7zero157 Elborate

[@StephanieJBlack-1313]

So glad I found you. Appreciate the support. Keep at it.

[@Ray147]

I was having a sad and lonely evening. And I came across this video, and watched some of Ben Shapiro. My sadness and loneliness has been swept away by Ben. I havent laughed out loud for a long time.

[@euphoria.yunjin]

fr! i went to sleep with a fever and woke up with my body stiff. on the way to the hospital, i fainted lmfao. now that i'm back home, feeling better, and resting, not allowed to do anything except lay in bed- i went on KZbin and this is what i came across. feeling a lot better than the capsules they gave me

[@joshuamoody7729]

He has that ability on people…it’s his superpower.

[@alexkane84]

@@euphoria.yunjin The development of organized hospitals in the Christian tradition took place over centuries and was shaped by various historical, cultural, and religious factors. It was not until the Middle Ages and the Renaissance that hospitals in Europe began to resemble the modern healthcare institutions we know today. The role of early Christians in providing care and charity to the sick and needy laid the foundation for the later development of the healthcare system in Christian-majority countries.

[@LaoZi2023]

@@alexkane84 Are you saying that humor was or was not included in ancient Christian health care?

[@britvica]

The best recommendation ever. Now let see if it works for me too.

[@LukeCartner]

My favorite response to the question of free will was by Dan Dennett. When asked if he believed in free will, his response: "I have no choice"

[@slevinchannel7589]

IVE GOTTA ASK my fellow Atheists: Do you have any idea that an Army is build right-now? A Theocracy isnt just wished-up by some 'random Extremist-Dudes' in 'some random Basements'. Watch the new video of The New York Times "The Real Threat to Democracy" and at least the Third GOP-Video of "Some More News"., if not all 3. MAGA and ALSO Christian-Nationalists are literally on a Recruitment-Spree and planning Sabotage that my fellow Leftists are unaware of and my fellow Atheists are unaware of. Maybe you understand why my i panick-coment trying to make People understand the Kent Hovind's of this world are in-FACT more ORGANIZED than People know.

[@Danny451]

@@masterofpuppetz5790 You are correct.

[@voicesoftoday7583]

This reminds me of a conversation the Matt Dillahunty reported having had with a hard line five point Calvinist who admitted to not believing in free will. Matt asked why the Calvinist continued to evangelize, if people didn't have the capacity to change their beliefs. The Calvinist responded that he had no choice on the matter.

[@highroller-jq3ix]

@Honest Citizen Pathetic, whiny fundie is your new name.

[@highroller-jq3ix]

+Luke Cartner Shame on him! That's stolen from Hitchens.

[@garyhughes1664]

Love the way you tackle these big questions. It’s so easy to slip into following the ‘logic’ of intelligent speakers like Mr Shapiro. They are super bright, quick thinkers and, with their clever terminology, over-shadow the average person, unacquainted with philosophy. By breaking down (deconstructing) what is said in the manner that you do, shows the flaws in their reasoning, which turns out to be little more than sleight of hand sophistry. Great video as usual. Thx.

[@lrvogt1257]

@Random Guy Yup. It's galled a Gish Gallop in an actual debate.

[@hairymcnipples]

He's not particularly bright. He has media training and tries to make sure he only ever deals with people who don't, that's about it. Whenever he interacts with someone who does he tends to make an arse of himself.

[@VALLANCEGAMING]

Religious people state, "Something can't come from nothing" and that means there is a creator. I ask, "So who creates God" They say "He just IS" something from nothing ladies and gentlemen

[@user-td3yi1mq7p]

Something that always bugs me about the fine tuning argument is the misuse of probabilities. Probablities are a tool to make predictions when crucial information is missing. Once something happened the probability is meaningless, since there is no more uncertainty

[@geoffstemen3652]

The probability arguments are precisely based on what ~is~ on earth as opposed to what could be (i.e., the actual state of the rest of the known universe).

[@theflaggeddragon9472]

Well this depends on your probabilistic philosophy. The Bayesian would agree with you, the frequentist perhaps not so.

[@gravytopic]

@@theflaggeddragon9472 And the infrequentist perhaps not so often.

[@MsJavaWolf]

Observations give you an estimate for the underlying process. If a coin lands on heads 20 times in a row, what's more likely, that it was just a coincidence, or that the coin is not a fair coin? The same goes for the universe. If the universe exists, is it more likely that the "underlying process" was truly random, or that it was not random, e.g. it was created by a God?

[@wempletun8218]

@@MsJavaWolf But we have no way of knowing what repeated coin flips would actually look like since we can’t observe other universes and we don’t know what actually determined the fundamental constants that are supposedly fine tuned. For all we know, everything about how the universe formed was predetermined and it happens this way every time one is formed. It’s a pointless quandary to waste your time with imho, and opens you up to irrational thinking.

[@calonstanni]

I'll never NOT laugh about how sad it is that Benny struggles with the concept of WAP.

[@eduardokalil4245]

Hahaha... Same here

[@parkernelson2663]

His poor, poor wife..

[@justsam7919]

Please, hypothetically speaking, grab a bucket and a mop

[@danh.5998]

The fact you act like that was not sarcasm is kinda sad.

[@godofnothing428]

@@danh.5998 where was the sarcasm? And do you know what sarcasm means?

[@thetuggiefresh5599]

"For people like Ben, the only person you should be getting on your knees for is a more supernatural kind of daddy." I'M DEAD

[@نسيتكلمةالمرور-ذ5ب]

Well, what's so strange about this? You choose to bend your knee to the capitalists and implement their principles, values ​​and everything they want from you like a slave, while believers chooses not to submit to any creature, and to submit to the One who created him, provided him, and bestowed upon him

[@نسيتكلمةالمرور-ذ5ب]

@@SilumesiiLunda-pu1qh The purpose of my comment is not to prove the existence of God, but rather the purpose is to prove that no creature deserves to be followed and worshiped, meaning that what atheists do is ignorance

[@scotthullinger4684]

@@نسيتكلمةالمرور-ذ5ب - God enabled Capitalism because Capitalism made the USA truly GREAT - - among so many countless other reasons . . . Capitalism is last on the list of "evil" economic systems. As bad as Capitalism is, well ... Socialism and Communism, along with Marxism, are 100 times WORSE -

[@wordsofwisdom8587]

@@نسيتكلمةالمرور-ذ5بHave you even watched the video?

[@MakNaasfalti-jh4bg]

@@نسيتكلمةالمرور-ذ5ب ah yes the famously anti capitalist religion. That never collected money from believers for luxury and power of few individuals. The famously anti capitalist mega church preachers. They're nothing like those capitalist atheists like .... Karl Marx?

[@oliverjamito9902]

Thank you Connor keep the sincere conversations going!

[@ElleDiablo]

Holy crap!!! I've followed both of y'all for years since i started questioning my faith...i was today years old when i realised you and GMS are not the same guy💀💀💀 ive just never needed to think of both of you at the same time.

[@user-xn3rs7tu5w]

LMAO!!!!

[@stuartcarden1371]

I want to pass on my thanks to you. I haven't studied philosophy since the second year of my undergraduate degree, many years ago. However, recently I've missed the challenge and so I'm very glad to have stumbled across your excellent channel. Keep up the good work and I'll continue to get headaches from bouts of trying to "think" far beyond my powers.

[@RogueAstro85]

This combines two of my favorite things: 1. a new CosmicSkeptic vid 2. dunking on Ben Shapiro

[@duckyorwell9416]

46:19 till 46:38 This is why I have always liked the way you are as a speaker/thinker, right from the start. Also when you go into detail do not apologize, I love that shit, I been kicked out of 9 schools when I was young, had my parents killed by this insane sick slave life at age 16 so not unfamiliar with the street life as a white kid in the Netherlands Yet it's so easy to understand you, especially when you come with those details I love it, keep up the real interest of what is as it is without ones ego blocking the view of what is, and oh man do some people get triggered by you, the same for me in my life. Especially childish adults need to get over themselves and check their ego, see the deeper truth / reality of life, they forgot the brain functions best like an umbrella, but keeping it closed just makes you get wet and look stupid.

[@nasimkhidhir8277]

I am a Muslim, and I admire the relatively impartial way you discuss these subjects. I feel that you are honest and actually seeking truth instead of trying to be right all the time.

[@kasdcomoa5567]

You should watch his videos on Islam lol

[@Lukey111]

@@kasdcomoa5567 ah yes islam the well known historical battlefield of logical non violent discourse

[@svucozixean1989]

damn these comments responding to you are pretty disrespectful. i really appreciate your effort towards seeking the truth and even if i do not agree with your conclusion your search for the answers to reality is admirable :) as for the Ben Luke, the whole point is to not generalise. historically islam may have not been about violent discourse, but that doesn't mean every Muslim is inherently violent. we should encourage anyone of any religion to seek truth, not vilify them simply for being raised in a different religious culture, and I appreciate Nasim for being someone to watch people who disagree with him and at least think about it

[@Lukey111]

@@svucozixean1989 I'm sorry if you have me mistaken but I'm not making a generalisation of the people that follow Islam but Islam as an Idea I don't believe Muslims are inherently violent but I do belive the purest form of Islam is inherently violent so I don't believe in treating the topic with indifference I apologise if it seemed as if I was making a point against Muslims as people as that isn't what I intended

[@svucozixean1989]

@@Lukey111 fair enough, i also apologise for my misunderstanding and accusation then

[@kerrybock766]

Ben is just another fast talker who makes it sound like he has a clue, when actually demonstrably wrong on most things. Thanks for another great vid CS!

[@AntitheistHuman]

Happy to know more and more people notice the strategy of religious, they want to spread their delusion in subtle manners

[@mauricethorne5890]

@@AntitheistHuman Who are "they?" It isn't clear.

[@David-cm4ok]

See J.Peterson

[@googletaqiyya184]

Reminds me of that debate on stage with a 2 v 2 panel and Jordan Peterson where the race hustler kept trying to do the fancy words that few people use spoken fast and with confidence that sounds nice until you figure out he was saying little but looking smart.

[@boywonder6659]

Please mention another thing Ben’s wrong about and don’t say that you can change your sex or that socialism isn’t evil.

[@tinycrimester]

"a more supernatural kind of daddy" pretty much covers everything i read on wattpad.

[@nathanmiller9918]

"My belief is comforting and fulfilling, so reality must be wrong."

[@camdencook9793]

Why would you need reality in the case of the former then?

[@nathanmiller9918]

@@camdencook9793 Some prefer to live in reality, regardless of comfort.

[@j.knight9335]

@@nathanmiller9918 The universe leaping out of the void, completely of it's own accord, then proceeding to build itself in to increasingly complex structures (again, completely of it's own accord) is not reality. It is modernist fantasy. You aren't more comfortable living in what you call reality, you're a coward who refuses to live in accordance with the will of God.

[@nathanmiller9918]

@@j.knight9335 Feel free to provide evidence for your imaginary friend. Everything that we observe is the product of time and natural processes.

[@nathanmiller9918]

@@j.knight9335 S really is hilarious. Things like Gravity, chemistry, and universal forces never affect anything without someone somewhere pushing a button. Lol. Gravity and chemistry require zero "accord."

[@ShalemAhava]

As a theist, thanks alex for having intellectual integrity in your content.

[@stylis666]

_"...having intellectual integrity in your content."_ Something a theist can never do while asking themselves why they believe. For example, if you were to ask yourself if a loving being that is wiser than any person could possibly require and/or encourage people to believe based on nothing but fallacies and thinking errors, which all theistic gods do, you'd only be able to remain a worshiping theist if you sacrifice your humanity and integrity since you can't excuse it or your belief with anything but fallacies and thinking errors.

[@conorodea9346]

@@stylis666 "..... having intellectual integrity in your content" Something a person who argues with a Theist who isn't arguing with someone, can never do

[@diegopreciado9939]

I have to agree. I am a theist, and I absolutely love Alex's content.

[@colmlooney5843]

@@stylis666 bruh, as an athjest myself, please... stfu

[@bluetoad2668]

@Emperor Shaddam IV he sort of asks for it though

[@StannisHarlock]

Ben is a smart person, despite the early montage in this video. When he misrepresents atheists and atheism, it's not done out of ignorance. He's heard the actual atheist positions before on all his claims before, but he knows what his audience wants to hear him say about atheists. That video was not meant to convince atheists that they are wrong to be atheists. It was meant to give his audience an endorphin release.

[@looneycaster]

💯

[@FactStorm]

He's a dishonest pos. He utters "facts don't care for your feelings" yet look at what he does..

[@tenpotkan7051]

But why would he knowingly withhold the truth and instead feed his audience what makes them feel good? Where is the good old offensive Ben?

[@MWMarsh-vv7he]

@@FactStorm From what I can gather from watching Ben Shapiro, he seems to be the human equivalent of a knee jerk reaction. He more often uses whit than reason.

[@AB-et6nj]

He's manipulative, but not smart

[@joshuaboelsche7684]

Ben's version of the Thomas Aquinas argument is essentially: "change is a mythical and therefore unexplainable phenomenon, therefore a mythical and unexplainable creator exists". But if we don't conceive all change as inherently "mythical and unexplainable" but rather, "complicated and/or currently unexplained", we don't have to rush to the premise that god exists. Yes, the universe is wacky and there are lots of things we don't know yet. But there are lots of things in the universe we previously considered unexplainable, but now we have better theories for. Just because the universe is complicated, doesn't mean a mythical creator made it.

[@peterglynn9924]

This is a straw man. Neither Ben, Aquinas, or Aristotle claim that “change is a mystical, therefore, unexplainable process”.

[@joshuaboelsche7684]

@@peterglynn9924 fair enough. So what is Ben's take on this argument?

[@peterglynn9924]

@@joshuaboelsche7684 He takes up the Aristotelian/Aquinas argument from Change. CS goes through it in the video.

[@joshuaboelsche7684]

@@peterglynn9924 ok but what is it about "change" that necessitates the existence of god

[@bookishbrendan8875]

@@joshuaboelsche7684 It’s postulative. It merely presents an argument for a prime mover, a “first cause”, so to speak. Then they proceed to other arguments to defend that this would be God. Aquinas is pretty technical, so it’s probably best to just go pick up Summa Contra Gentiles and learn his argument yourself.

[@davidmihailovici]

Looks like the potential of overtaking Drew in subscribers did in fact actualize. Congratulations on closing in on 1 million subscribers. I'd be very glad to see such an amazing and important channel reach this milestone, and I hope to see Drew reach this milestone soon too.

[@JCW7100]

Alex is such a wordsmith. I truly admire his speaking talents.

[@authoranoosha4284]

How can we messages Alex ?

[@Lyonessi]

@@authoranoosha4284 Twitter?

[@ahah86]

People like Shapiro and Peterson are the kind of people you can agreed with if you don't really pay attention to what they are saying.

[@sososoawesome1]

Dont put peterson on the same level as shapiro

[@SorowFame]

⁠@@sososoawesome1 Peterson is slightly more interesting but he’s around the same level of reasoning.

[@thirst4wisdom]

God exists. If you reject him, you will have an abysmal eternity.

[@ahah86]

@@thirst4wisdom can you prove it?

[@justinkurtrivera2315]

@@thirst4wisdom fear base program is exceptionally I have been rejected better just cry all day being look pathetic to anyone begging them to believe God when in fact you don't even have any evidence to support this abysmal bullshit This is a fear base programming I have been deconstructed it totally ruined my life bound to guilt and fear I almost felt like Christianity is the biggest mind trap acroos the globe they weaponize fear to destroy thorough logical analysis to anyone and inducing guilt by exerting them fear of eternal hell fire of fantasy I have been deconstructed it now I am free of it Stop spreading bullshit it doesn't work as always

[@endeuinable]

The editing quality has gone up and I love it. The diagrams and text visuals help a lot with clarity of the arguments and make the whole thing easier to watch. Keep it up!

[@impactballroom3653]

Love this! Thoughts… 1. Infinite possible paths does not preclude a point source of origin. Just because the origin must include potential for all possible changes, does not mean it must include infinite data, but instead that an infinite number of changes could all be based on a fixed data set (origin). 2. If you are looking at change from outside time, there is still the element of entropy. The directionality by which change occurs defines change, ie entropy always increases.

[@ladyalicent705]

“We’re being SILENCED! We’re being OPPRESSED” _Ben Shapiro roared into the microphone, speaking to an audience of millions on one of the most well funded media platforms in the world_

[@billpugh58]

Sounds like every conservative ever. Except when THEY cancel someone…….

[@maolsheachlannoceallaigh4772]

It's only because he built up an independent platform that he can do this. incidentally, I find Shapiro very annoying.

[@definitelynotcole]

Though there are many groups that feel this way in the same position. Many of those people me and you would probably agree with on other points.

[@MAFDOMiNUS]

​@@definitelynotcole like feminism, BLM, and the illuminati

[@___._]

@@maolsheachlannoceallaigh4772oh yeah no totally, he 100% built it by himself and it had nothing to do with the Koch brothers and their untold millions. No siree bob. Self-made.

[@valuerie]

It's so crazy that your videos were so important to me in my late teen years, and then in my early adulthood I actually met and was introduced to GMS' videos, and now both of you are aware of each other and discuss similar topics.

[@valuerie]

"SELL THEIR HOUSES TO WHOM BEN? FUCKING AQUALAD!????"

[@valuerie]

PLEASE DON'T FIGHT WITH DREW YOU BOTH CAN SHARE I PROMISE

[@valuerie]

People make potential a "real" property when companies bellyache about piracy hurting "potential profits." Potential profit isn't real profit.

[@lotrismyreligion2505]

Gandalf is my God

[@cardinalityofaset4992]

As a mathematician I must say that watching "non-maths" people talking about mathematics cuses me an enormous pain (:

[@alexkane84]

Werner Heisenberg: Heisenberg, one of the pioneers of quantum mechanics, was known for his spiritual and philosophical interests. He believed that science and religion could coexist and once said, "The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass, God is waiting for you." Max Planck: The founder of quantum theory, Max Planck, also had spiritual beliefs. He believed in a "divine being" and thought that science and religion complemented each other. Albert Einstein: Einstein is famous for his contributions to physics, including the theory of relativity. While he didn't adhere to traditional religious beliefs, he often referred to a sense of awe and wonder at the universe, which he described as "cosmic religion." He rejected a personal God but believed in the existence of an impersonal, pantheistic deity.

[@ArifKhan-vh2gx]

It just doesn't add up

[@notmelagain]

how about we look at the entirety of scientists instead of a hand picked selection?

[@alexkane84]

@@notmelagain sure go ahead. Christianity was one of greatest contributors to modern science.

[@jm329]

@@alexkane84Why? Is this the medieval argument?

[@afronovaable]

Alex, there is another thing you reconstructed here: It's not an issue of who is right or wrong, but a war of egos. Crystal clear.

[@danielbirnbaum8540]

I am so extremely happy that you included the “unsettled” part about the fine tuning argument. It truly shows that you’re not just one sided, and that you’re doing this for truth. Btw, I would love to see a video on the evolutionary argument against naturalism.

[@Oswlek]

I appreciate CS's humility, but he doesn't grasp the full extent to which the fine tuning argument fails. First and foremost, the god proposed is supposed to be all powerful. The idea that he could only create life in small number of universes with specific parameters is actually contradictory to their own hypothesis. Next, the multiverse is far from ad hoc. It emerges necessarily from the simplest interpretation of Schrodinger's equation, and can be found in other interpretations as well. There are numerous workable multiverse models, all of which are internally consistent and consistent with the maths we employ to describe day to day reality. We have no way to test whether there is a multiverse and, if so, what form it comes in, but one would have been hypothesized regardless of anyone's thoughts on fine tuning. Then there's the fact that rarity itself tells us nothing about intent. Every bridge hand, for instance, from the most incredible to the most mundane, has the same odds against it. You could say _"OMG what are the odds I'd get this exact hand?!"_ every single time and the answer would be the same. It's not until there are rules that make certain ones notable that such a statement has any utility. Why is this important? Because Ben is the equivalent of that person picking up 13 cards and exclaiming meaninglessly about the odds without any other context. He has no "rules" to suggest some feature of our universe is special. Hell, he hasn't shown that the cards weren't dropped or that it's even possible to "deal" a universe. I'm sure there's more, but that is more than enough to say the fine tuning argument is very much settled.

[@joecoolioness6399]

@@Oswlek Ben just showed me he simply does not understand what an Atheist is. We are not mad at god, we don't believe the claim that he exists. We are not pretending, we don't believe the claim that a god, let alone his god, exists. Disappointing.

[@andrewferg8737]

"you’re doing this for truth" ----- Please clarify in the context of atheism.

[@andrewferg8737]

@@joecoolioness6399 "does not understand what an Atheist is" ---- Please clarify. What is "it" that you do not believe?

[@danielbirnbaum8540]

@@andrewferg8737 I don’t think he is. I truly think he would like to find the objective truth, which is why this is so impactful.

[@looneycaster]

it's baffling how Ben Shapiro coined the catchphrase "facts don't care about your feelings" and then has to have a magic spell performed over his food before he's allowed to eat it.

[@LarsPallesen]

And even more baffling how the same guy can talk about his choice to believe in religion and 'struggle with the logic of the universe' because he finds it more fulfilling. In other words he disregards the observable facts about the universe and chooses a religious view of the cosmos because it makes him FEEL better. But, Ben, facts don't care about your feelings, remember?

[@daviddeida]

Not baffling at all.The spell you refer to is gratitude.I guess if you feel self entitled ,it would be baffling.

[@daviddeida]

@@LarsPallesen Nah,his point is its not making him feel better,its more fulfilling.Knowing one is a meat puppet with no free will is far easier.No guilt for starters

[@ivystuart1736]

@@daviddeida 🙄🙄🙄

[@nondescriptcat5620]

"facts don't care about your feelings. they only care about *MY* feelings."

[@shannonkey9926]

Omg. This was beautiful. Especially the potential/ change discussion. Something very pleasing happened inside my brain when u discussed this. Fantastic job.

[@rammul7801]

Losing my belief wasn't due to anger or trauma. Nor did it cause me depression or loneliness. It was the most awesome empowring and liberating journies ever!

[@Nicky_Dore]

Alex is by far my fave atheist KZbinr. Thank you for the videos.

[@ChrisFineganTunes]

Me watching Alex’s videos: “Mmmm, yes, very interesting! Great point!” Me trying to use Alex’s arguments IRL: “Um, the B Theory of the Ontological Argument means that Ben Shapiro has no potential.”

[@Zahlenteufel1]

My problem is that I say "B theory of time" and nobody knows what I'm talking about but if I try to explain every part of the explanation I wanted to give originally (recursively), it turns into a lecture and also I loose my train of thought a lot.

[@rainbowkrampus]

@@Zahlenteufel1 This is why you don't discredit people like Shapiro with facts and logic. The sort of person to be taken in by Shapiro was never that concerned with those things in the first place. They've certainly never been an issue for Shapiro himself. "Sell it to who Ben, Aquaman!?" Short, sweet and reveals the clown makeup Shapiro tries desperately to hide. Once you can convince someone that people like Shapiro are comical and not authorities on anything, that's when they'll be open to learning about more complicated topics.

[@aaronfuller881]

He studied lol. You and I just watched a video

[@sjnhelado]

Alex I just want to say that you’re still the no. 1 subscribed skeptic KZbin channel in my heart. Nothing against GMS, but watching your videos has significantly helped shape my philosophy and worldview ever since stumbling upon your channel years ago. Everything you post is so well thought out and your perspectives make a big difference to someone like me, someone who just went vegan after struggling in a state of cognitive dissonance for a significant time. Your speeches and videos planted that seed years ago. You are a respected and valued part of my subscription feed irrespective of how little you post.

[@20july1944]

Assuming you're an atheist, is your atheism based on science?

[@isaackvasager9957]

@@20july1944 if by "science" you mean facts, reason, and logic instead of the feelings of belief...then yea...that's kind of the whole point of being an atheist.

[@20july1944]

@@isaackvasager9957 Oh. Do you know basic physics such as how a star works?

[@isaackvasager9957]

@@20july1944 considering I taught precisely that for 10 years, yea...I have a decent level of understanding of how stars work. I'm not an astrophysicist, but my understanding is adequate.

[@isaackvasager9957]

@@20july1944 quick follow up...if you are about to ask me "how can you possibly know how a star works if you've never been to one"...then we can stop this conversation right there because you aren't a serious person actually interested in learning and growing as a person.

[@Izan-o8f]

COUNTER-ARGUMENTS Hey Alex, great video there! I appreciate and respect you and all your points, you have improved me so many ways, however I wish to propose counter-arguments on the 3 points you mentioned against Ben at 37:36. Here they are:- 1. You sad that the property of infinity cannot be "actually" infinite as actual infinites cannot exist, that was referenced from William Lane Craig as you said. But William meant this in a physical sense. There exist 120+ types of potentials in this world in a physical sense, like Zero-Point Energy Potential Yukawa Energy Potential Ambipolar Potential Exchange-Correlation Energy Density Potential to name a few absolutely random ones. The growing of a seed to a tree cannot be justified by even one of them btw, not one out of a 120+, ask ChatGPT. My point is that the seed (or the coffee) example talks of an 'emotional' measure to comprehend a process, which actually can be infinite. 2. This point like the previous one, talks of the 'other' type of potential, and your point depends on what you mean by it. I would say (not because of your argument) that this type of potential would be defined as the ability to change, you point isn't valid anymore. 3. Don't adopt B theory of time then. Theists only believe in the A theory anyway, which allows the existence of beings outside of time, not creatures that can travel through time (like in the B theory). But ones that are timeLESS, which we consider to be higher energies or God(s).

[@morganophelia5963]

i am a theistic Christian but i do like your objectivity and honesty and politeness and that you're not just some anti-theist in disguise but a real atheist/agnostic

[@thatbitch3254]

A real atheist... Lmfao, anti-theists are also real atheists because they don't believe in god...

[@Rose_Ou]

Are there anti-theistic Christians?

[@morganophelia5963]

@@Rose_Ou um i dont think so

[@cowhydrodynamics]

@@Rose_Ou he meant those who are actively against the existence of god compared to atheists, who are just yet to have seen enough proof of their existence

[@animealpha4795]

@@cowhydrodynamics I won’t even consider people who disregard god as atheists just because they don’t believe in it thinking the idea of god it’s absurd. A real atheist won’t deny god, he says “I won’t believe you until you prove it”

[@AugustoXRock]

Dude, it's been TOO LONG since you've uploaded a video like this. Thank you :)

[@hazirefff5957]

You have grown so well. I was watching your channel when you first started. Just now returned to this google account and found your channel. How nostalgic!

[@alexdenton6586]

Your videos are perfect before sleeping

[@azmainnisak5977]

As a Muslim scientist, I appreciate your fair, balanced view of the philosophical arguments, and how you take the opportunity to educate about philosophy. Your enthusiasm and love for philosophy really shine through.

[@Miaowzi]

As an ex-muslim i appreciate your open mindedness.

[@vinnieg6161]

So do you accept evolution and the big bang and theory of gravity or no?

[@Daeva83B]

@@vinnieg6161 Muslims are surprisingly scientific. I mean astronomy, it's arabic, many stars have arabic names. But if i'm not mistaking, there was a king, many many years ago who said, playing with numbers (aka math) is the work of the devil. And since then, the arabic world doesn't produce much scientists anymore... That's religion for ya ;) hehehe

[@a1612]

what's a "muslim" scientist? I only know scientists. my dad and I worked as research scientists. we are African Americans (aka black). we never would have credentialed or IDed ourselves as black scientist. it's a meaningless descriptive

[@vinnieg6161]

@@Daeva83B Yes I know, thanks

[@IcarusGravitas]

I'm an Idealist Determinist. It's so cool to see someone who gets that Free Will is excluded by reason, not just by strict Materialism. :). I just discovered you and now I have a huge backlog of your videos to watch. Thanks!

[@justinmojica7112]

As always it is excessively satisfying to witness your videos I Truly can appreciate the thought provoking content that you consistently produce thank you

[@Langello0o]

you’re my favourite youtube channel

[@Hachizukatenzo]

Shapiro's depiction of religion is literally like trying to imagine, love and admire the father who left to buy milk before you were even born, just because someone told you need a father figure to grow up.

[@Eternalozzie]

In Shapiro's media beginning he actually believed the words flying out of his mouth. Now his philosophy is more of a business practice than faith.

[@katattack907]

Yeah, he comes across as a sociopath at best-I don't see any moral conviction from him, just a desire to win arguments and influence.

[@davehallam3894]

This seems to be the case with many of the well known apologists and the like

[@hrodebertcoad9848]

Well he's selling overpriced mobile service based on politics now

[@zapkvr]

He actually believed? I cannot agree. He wanted to believe. Just like all those joined in faith based practice. He didn't care about the truth but I can't accept he believed any of his drivel.

[@stanleyslawski1339]

I don't know when he started, but when I first ran across him was about 2016 (?) or so. I think it was in conversation with Sam Harris. At the time, although he was extremely conservative, he struck me as a rational human being who actually wanted to be some kind of public intellectual. Now he simply makes my skin crawl with his schtick of "if I talk really fast, use big words, and declaim aggressively, people will think I'm brilliant and give me lots of money." (I'm here for Alex, I haven't seen him in a while, and missed listening to intelligent discussion.)

[@eyeofthebeholder_]

You see, Alex the cognitive dissonance is not a bug, it's a feature.

[@synlynx869]

I love that the potential of Alex‘ channel becoming more subscribed than Drew‘s became actual