Why I Don't Trust the Bible

Watch the full debate: • IS THE BIBLE TRUE? ALE...
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- VIDEO NOTES
From the debate, "Is The Bible True?" held in the Bronx, NYC between Alex O'Connor and Dinesh D'Souza on June 1st, 2024.
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[@rodvillass]

Alex I'm warning you, if you keep posting and posting these excerpts of the debate against Dinesh I'll just continue watching them and you can't stop me mate. You've been warned.

[@FinnAppelt]

Alex be warned hes not alone, we are not one, we are legion, we will watch you shall be warned

[@halestorm123]

​@@FinnAppelt😂

[@astrovation3281]

I stand with you

[@xephyr417]

For real. If he doesn't stop, I'll click every one. Final warning. You really trying to take up all my time like that?

[@Simon-fr4ts]

Mate.

[@JoelSwanson-gx2xr]

*Larry Burkett's book on "Giving and Tithing" drew me closer to God and helped my spirituality. 2020 was a year I literally lived it. I cashed in my life savings and gave it all away. My total giving amounted to 40,000 dollars. Everyone thought I was delusional. Today, 1 receive 85,000 dollars every two months. I have a property in Calabasas, CA, and travel a lot. God has promoted me more than once and opened doors for me to live beyond my dreams. God kept to his promises to and for me*

[@JerryAdams-fc7yv]

There's wonder working power in following Kingdom principles on giving and tithing. Hallelujah!

[@Mattew-b3r]

But then, how do you get all that in that period of time? What is it you do please, mind sharing?

[@FelixRothbart]

It is the digital market. That's been the secret to this wealth transfer. A lot of folks in the US and abroad are getting so much from it, God has been good to my household Thank you Jesus

[@FelixRothbart]

Big thanks to Ms. Chisty Fiore❤️✨💯May God bless Christy Fiore services,she have changed thousands of lives globally

[@AndreaBickel]

How can I start this digital market, any guidelines and how can I reach out to her?

[@DevonMusizza]

You made this man retire lol

[@motaman8074]

If only

[@theman12833]

is that the mmaguru profile pic?

[@DevonMusizza]

@@theman12833 yessir

[@timandmonica]

I get what you're saying, but for most of the people at the college where he is the dean, this becomes more and more of a solid victory for Dinesh as the months go on and the memories get shifted and changed. He will be considered a hero for debating Alex and winning. I've seen this over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again in Christian apologetics.

[@dvillegaspro]

Alex glazers go hard in this comment section

[@joshuacrompton6974]

Dinesh created the concept of fallacy

[@pmaitrasm]

Heretoforth, it will be called the Dinesh Fallacy.

[@krisjones4051]

You created the concept of dumb@$$ery

[@jameschapman6559]

​@@pmaitrasm👍🤣

[@pmaitrasm]

@@jameschapman6559, 😆😆😆

[@celestialnubian]

Deeneish isn't talented enough to create anything.

[@Thestoryinthesounds]

If the tribal war god doesn’t condone slavery why was Alex permitted to own this poor fellow

[@ItsThatGuy1989]

Keep seeing clips from the debate. As a Christian I find it super cringe and hard to watch. Dinesh is awful and hits all the terrible talking points. Alex asked fantastic questions.

[@chottstuff]

did you have some better answers to Alex's questions?

[@thomaspostma1468]

A monkey stealing peanuts from you could have done a better job defending the Bible lol. I am an atheïst and I am pretty sure that some form of civilised discours on good faith could have been archieved where one might have settled on an okay answer. But debating like Dinesh.. Pff, he clearly was not prepared at all for this, the man bassicly begged the audience to go to questioning in the end

[@ItsThatGuy1989]

@@chottstuff I’m not a literalist nor do I think it is infallible. I also think many (not all) of the Old Testament interactions with God, including the horrific wars and killings and such, were anthropomorphic in nature. So many of his questions don’t really mean much to me

[@HarryNicNicholas]

if you're christian can you remind god he can't just go around killing people and burning them alive for eternity just because they disagree with him, we have rights. and while you're at it, cold fusion, if god isn't going to do anything about putin (heart attack or something that looks natural), if he's not going to stop the war, (when did he ever stop a war) then the least he can do is hint as to how to get cold fusion working - has he seen my electricity bills since the ukraine debacle started, there's a love eh. don't be pushy though, god has a short fuse.

[@jameschapman6559]

​@ItsThatGuy1989 unfortunately most Christians are indoctrinated, groomed and grifted by the church from early childhood. They are taught that the Bible is literally and infallible; and not to question it. But "only believe," by faith.

[@BrodieTV]

“They get to go fr- No sorry, hold on.. You may take these as plunder for yourselves, yes that’s right.” AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA ALEX THE GOAT 🐐🔥

[@_abdul]

THAT'S WHY HE'S THE GOAT!!!!! THAT'S WHY HE'S THE GOAT!!!!!

[@FinnAppelt]

Drake, K Dot and Yuno miles where lucky Alex didn't bother with em

[@Squeakyboy]

@@FinnAppelt BBL DINESH💯💯🗣️🗣️🐐🐐

[@FinnAppelt]

@@Squeakyboy BrasilianBrainLoss 🔥🔥

[@Squeakyboy]

@@FinnAppelt BrasilianBadLogic🔥🔥🔥

[@cassiusdhami9215]

The problem with this debate: One side is searching for truth and knowledge. The other is a criminally convicted grifter who cares for nothing orher than his own notoriety.

[@tourdeflores2693]

english or spanish?

[@yannickbr4383]

He's a notorious dumbass now

[@YamadaDesigns]

You can’t talk about Alex that way!

[@thermionix]

Exactly! Who's next? Alex Jones?

[@Meson10]

One is looking to Discover yet being skeptical of certain discoveries. The other One is Wise to believe in something that's beyond the realm of this Earth. more than Non-existence after death and finding there just might be more than these 5 senses that the closed off say to not trust beyond. Like telling a Man born deaf to trust in sound while him stating he's not trusting what is not in sign language.

[@Yourhighnessnona]

Watching this back and seeing Dinesh taking notes during this opening argument, only to say Alex being British is suspicious and not respond to ONE thing Alex has said, is too funny 😂

[@yannickbr4383]

Hadn't realised but damn you're right, thats another layer of hilarity added

[@Rolo-gn1nk]

He was probably doodling crosses all over the page to comfort himself.

[@JimmyTuxTv]

Opening statements r prepared and not intended as a rebuttal unless you have as one of your points already to counter in the affirmative.

[@sawbugg1]

You wrecked him from every perspective of "truth"

[@WayneLynch69]

It is utterly without shame that those contending for a literal reading of the Bible are said to be unwashed hick morons. But without the slightest embarrassment the same people THEN demand that it be defended as literal. But of course the real raison is not that 'so well intended Alex types' care to have the argument. It's purely to contend for their great superiority. Now that's everyone's right. But THEY'RE THE ONES insisting that contending as "superior" is the most depraved of all contentions. NOT FOR THEM....but their transparent duplicity is!

[@PaddingtonSoul]

Really? Do you think the world was better before Christianity? I'm a Christian atheist.

[@dariuslegacy3406]

​@@PaddingtonSoulthat wasn't the topic of the debate

[@faithalonesaves]

All Alex's objections to Christianity are solved by Marcion Christianity.. He, in 100AD noticed the same problems between the OT & NT. & saw the Judaizers judaized

[@PapaCloguu]

@@PaddingtonSoulyes

[@bertrodgers2420]

As a Christian, I'd rather have Alex defending the faith than a lot of others

[@user-wc3zt5fq2o]

Your Christian only in your head, I dare you to follow your book, you would be called a extremist

[@link9822]

Why would he do that?! Way too smart and informed for that 😅

[@DundG]

@@link9822 He once did against a fellow atheist as a mental exercise and to stealman this position aka. taking on the strongest possible version of christianity, as an exercise to examine the ideas as seriously as possible and to see if this version holds against scrutiny. And Alex did a way better job in defending christianity than the apologists he debates.

[@chesscake2641]

@@DundGdo you know where I could find that? I’d be quite interested to give it a watch

[@HarryNicNicholas]

if you're christian can you remind god he can't just go around killing people and burning them alive for eternity just because they disagree with him, we have rights. and while you're at it, cold fusion, if god isn't going to do anything about putin (heart attack or something that looks natural), if he's not going to stop the war, (when did he ever stop a war) then the least he can do is hint as to how to get cold fusion working - has he seen my electricity bills since the ukraine debacle started, there's a love eh. don't be pushy though, god has a short fuse.

[@cupofcoffee4251]

You destroyed him with your superhuman British accent.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

apples n pears i say old boy, what ho!

[@FinnAppelt]

Unfair advantage mate

[@Simon-fr4ts]

​@@FinnAppeltmate

[@ChrisFineganTunes]

Even when D’Souza stood up he was unable to defeat the accent.

[@calebchristopherson9533]

I thought his comment on, it “not being an accident” that many prominent atheist thinkers have accents, very off putting lol was that just me?

[@CTrudo27]

Didn't know that youtube allowed you to post murder clips but Alex has somehow been able to post dozens from this debate with Dinesh.

[@pmaitrasm]

😅😅😅

[@chrisdsouza8685]

😂😂😂 indeed 😂

[@AtanuKDey]

@CTrudo27 I think youtube policy allows uploading evisceration videos. Dinesh gets eviscerated but is still breathing at the end.

[@BeniaminG_]

Im a Christain but stuff like this really makes me think

[@infiniteworfare5089]

well your believing the wrong stuff. humans exploited wildlife, abused animals, and are lacking natural selection. lack of natural selection is causing impaired thinking skills.

[@user-wc3zt5fq2o]

No Christian follows the Bible, if they did they would be extremist Muslims dressed in Crusader gear

[@chottstuff]

religion is answers that cant be questioned. freedom is asking questions that have no answers. thinking is freedom.

[@Adam-gl1qv]

The more you look at your Christian faith with a critical eye the more you will lose it. Once you lose it you will be amazed how ridiculous it all is.

[@TheConvictedPrince]

About what exactly

[@theprecipiceofreason]

Classic 'best way to become an atheist is to learn about religion'

[@thomaspostma1468]

Man, I rewatched your debate a couple of times. Mostly to study closely how you debate, for it is fascinating, lots to learn from.

[@FinnAppelt]

Saaaaame in my head, when i fantasize about winning ever, Argument i argue half as good as alex, in real life - Well... Ughhhhhhh 😭

[@thomaspostma1468]

@@FinnAppelt Haha makes sense, for me it helps to only debate about stuff I actually know alot about, else I end up like Dinesh fumbling all over the place. But I love to study this debate, not only for his arguments, but for his sharpness in spotting fallacies & illogical thing while staying calm.

[@MistakeLearned]

Most important, know the opponent and research and understand everything they know better than they do. Be very clear and unambiguous and be SURE that everything you say stands up 100% to scrutiny.

[@Michael-kp4bd]

And far from just rhetorical strategy, there’s much to own from his deep understanding of theology (which I care to spend next to none of my own time studying)

[@FinnAppelt]

@@thomaspostma1468 yea even so im just not good at responding and i let myself get interupted easily

[@donvalderath4308]

I came here for the video, I stayed for the comments.

[@gdfyredragan2270]

It has been 2 mins, there are literally no good comments

[@donvalderath4308]

@@gdfyredragan2270 yeah not yet, that's why I'm staying lol, I reckon it's gonna be juicy.

[@pmaitrasm]

I came, I saw, I stayed. 😂

[@donvalderath4308]

@@pmaitrasm veni, vidi, venio

[@pmaitrasm]

@@donvalderath4308, 👍🙂

[@billlyons7024]

You anticipated all avenues of attack and shut them down before they could be used. Poor Dinesh.

[@bradgaines]

Kinda like Eminem at the end of 8 Mile :)

[@cheshireket3132]

Because it's all the same arguments over and over again. Since the source material doesn't change, neither does the "proof" in it.

[@KeanuReevesIsMyJesus]

3:50 LOL! I can see why everyone is calling you the new Hitchens. Cheeky fellow.

[@Cheximus]

What happens at 3:50 that's so funny?

[@r.i.p.volodya]

@@Cheximus He made a feint of the bible being humane but then turned the page and of course it was in fact horrific!

[@IR17171717]

No disrespect intended to O'Connor or Hitchens but they are totally different characters. Hitchens was very charismatic and funny and relied on rants and humour. He didn't, however, have the slightest grasp over the philosophical arguments and when he tried to engage on that level (see his debate with Craig) it's not very good. He was obviously super smart and funny. O'Connor, though, is far more reserved, doesn't rant and go into lengthy monologue about how silly his opponents are, or whatever. It's worlds apart. They are both very good to watch.

[@DundG]

@@IR17171717 They're different. But I think most people see in him the new Hitchens due to his impact on the theistic and atheistic community, not his similiarity with him. I prefer Alex over Hitches, simply because Alex respect for his opponets and his willingnes to take them seriously without letting anything slide makes theists way more open to his views than hitchens did.

[@FinnAppelt]

​@@IR17171717Hitchens had great points tho, he had some bad moments tho, febate wise, i mean But against Craig you don't really have to do anything anyway he's the literal definition of a poser 😂

[@speakatron5634]

Dinesh sat there thinking "Damn, why did I agree to this?"

[@Aquamayne100]

for real lol

[@logician7517]

Because there was a camera.

[@SterlingTate]

This is why debates tend to fall short, each writing notes to prepare to respond rather than listening to the argument. Like many failed marital relationships.

[@noahr.5515]

That is just inherent to debates like this. They are not a way to find truth or wisdom, like scientific or even academic theological debates, but are a form of entertainment. They are more presentations for people to assert arguments for their worldview, then they are about come to an agreement. Hopefully win souls for that worldview in that process by making your opponent look like a fool.

[@Pumbear]

It's crazy you opened the debate by allowing Dinesh to define the type of biblical truth he wanted to argue for and then his reply was to say it's suspicious you're British.

[@hermitcard4494]

Facts dont care about feelings. And faith doesn't care about facts.

[@youssefalaoui4286]

The entire world experience is a feeling🤦‍♂️

[@hermitcard4494]

@@youssefalaoui4286 _"Well in my experience, people like you talking offend my feeling because you are far X, xphiles, bigots, and should not have the right talk."_ Do you like how people's feeling are ruling society, politics, philosophy, education, entertainment, religion and even science? Do you?

[@youssefalaoui4286]

@@hermitcard4494I think you are talking about emotions. Feelings have a much broader scope. A fact is felt as an experience, it is entirely subjective.

[@kevinmora8693]

Nay, faith is using evidences to be certain about something unproven. Humans live by faith everyday whether they are religious or not. Everything is designed in faith that the Earth will keep spinning, the Sun will rise, etc. We have no proof that the sun will rise, but based on previous observations and known laws, we can conclude that the sun will rise. In conclusion, can we prove God exists and that a final day of judgment will come? No. Can we prove that the sun will rise tomorrow? Also no. These two beliefs are not exactly supported by the same amount or type of evidences, but they are still supported by only some evidence and can not be proven 100%. Belief in something requires at least a tiny leap of faith.

[@richiskinner9810]

@@youssefalaoui4286 But faith does care about feelings which is mathematically impossible due to the transitive property of the first comment

[@sunflare8798]

In the end Dinesh is just a less articulate Jordan Peterson. They make the same arguments but Peterson is way better at evading and obfuscating. Coincidentially both work for the Daily Wire

[@pmaitrasm]

What do you mean by 'in'? What do you mean by 'end'? If I cannot answer you, I will twist and bend, In answering complicated questions, I am very bad, So I, Jordan Peterson, Must spit out word salad!

[@ivanfreire]

​@@pmaitrasm It's hard to tell...

[@pmaitrasm]

@@ivanfreire, Ha ha ha, yes. 😆

[@yes2112Sawyer]

They don’t make the same arguments at all. Dinesh is a fundamentalist. Peterson, whatever you think of him, certainly isn’t

[@HarryNicNicholas]

at least peterson is insane, dinesh is just dumb.

[@CharlesPayet]

That was GLORIOUS, @CosmicSkeptic!!!

[@Montisa2008]

That Matthew & Luke part at 7:26 is why metaphors are not good enough

[@faithalonesaves]

All Alex's objections to Christianity are solved by Marcion.. he believed Jesus is the Son of God but the OT god is a demiurge. He noticed the same problems between the OT & NT.

[@welcometoWWW]

​@@faithalonesavesGod did not change between OT and NT. He will still be as vengeful and wrathful as he has been many times. The Sun sure has been active lately huh? Love seeing the weather keep breaking new records... wonder what controls the weather the most? Perhaps the giant flaming fireball 1000x the size of Earth? Nahhhh we're fine humanity will obviously make it beyond Earth and populate the stars :)

[@faithalonesaves]

@@welcometoWWW you’re misunderstanding. Marcion claims the one true God has always been the same. But Jews chose to worship Yawhh instead of the true God that sent Christ. Then when they couldn’t compete with Christianity they adopted and reimagined it and stapled their Old Testament on the back of Paul’s new revelation of Christ

[@slXD100]

@@welcometoWWW natural phenomenon, human impact, HAARP.

[@slXD100]

@@faithalonesaves but judaism started out with yawh, who is this other true God then?

[@constructenglish1]

Alex, you are restoring my faith in humanity.

[@randomRyze]

Restoring faith in humanity/reality, while obliterating faith in supernatural beings.

[@MosesRabuka]

'What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.' ~ Hitchens

[@gandalainsley6467]

Like atheism? Hitchens had a tendency to say logical things while ignoring the same thing in his own beliefs. Also his death seems like one big mock fest of him. Dude died in such a way that he can be mocked by every single religious person in every religion. Its like someone on purpose took away everything he cared about. His ego is gone because he was wrong. His pride was huge because of it which is destroyed because he was wrong. His legacy is being the atheist guy who preached that God does not exist and died from a throat thing so now people he looked down on all can laugh at him and can say my God did it. Look how stupid he was?

[@tricotdiko1435]

@@gandalainsley6467The onus is not on the atheist to disprove god. So go ahead, try and be witty. Hitch would tear you apart. Also, in what way was he wrong?

[@Cheximus]

@@gandalainsley6467 Good grief you people are so stupid it's actually painful. How in the flying fuck does "athiesm" require evidence? Do you even know what the word means?! Arrghghghgjhg!!!!!1111111

[@ScandinavianHeretic]

@@gandalainsley6467 Why would the religious delight in such things? Why are you so emotionally fired up and gleeful about what you explain? Does it give you pleasure?

[@gandalainsley6467]

@@tricotdiko1435 You won't like my answer. Lets just say I have met some of those things that he believed did not exist.

[@pingwin7035]

I love how you express yourself. Its so elegant especially in the opening statement. Id like to see some content discussing rethoric or how you got to this point.

[@JosefBirich]

I came here for the comments, I stayed here for the comments.

[@kylewatson5133]

"Why I don't trust the bible" The bible has in it incredibly powerful intuitions that only the god of the universe would know. It has the partial differential equation that governs the wave function of a quantum-mechanical systems and the coupled partial differential equation that show how fluctuations in electromagnetic fields propagate at a constant speed in vacuum. Oh wait. It has none of that. Instead it has nothing even close that would hint that the writers had some divine insight into the mind of god.

[@SalahAl-DinYusufibnAyyub]

Got me for a second there

[@zak2659]

There is more to the truth of reality than scientific truth. Science is not the only way to gain knowledge, and in actuality, is a very small subsection of all knowledge.

[@AlexanderRivkind]

I believe you are talking about The Feynman Lectures on Physics... :)

[@InMaTeofDeath]

@@zak2659 You know enough about the full picture of truth to make the claim that science is a very small subset? Fascinating, if you were to make a pie chart of all the different types of truth what are they and what percentage of the pie does each type have?

[@oldpossum57]

@@zak2659 Lovely claim. Can’t wait to hear the proof! Oh. You don’t have the proof handy? Well, while I’m waiting, I’ll just build A 1:1 model of Stone Henge in brick. Should give you enough time to do the proof!

[@zikiwiki]

Alex am very happy that l found your videos when l was much younger. your dabets are now days so interesting!

[@Arminius420]

Any book written by anyone claiming to be the word for a supreme being will always be automatically questionable.

[@xravenx24fe]

The whole books aren't the word of God, do you even know anything about the Bible? The books literally tell you what God reveals vs what the author was writing brother, you look like a clown when you say that to anyone whose read the book. Only Muslims believe their book was literally written by God and for that reason they believe it's eternal and preexisting creation which us Christians also laugh at, if that makes you feel more at home.

[@ronniemora8469]

Been and Atheist since 12th April 1981, when I saw Columbia take off, from Florida, on TV here in the UK. I'm now 55. Nothing has changed my views on religion, stories and myths ever since. The total nonsense people are told about, a Deity above

[@HS-qv3dh]

heaven was pierced?

[@ronniemora8469]

@@HS-qv3dh I was highlighting the total nonsense of a Deity above, we're told about, at that age

[@sigmaohiogyattfanumrizz]

There is definitely some kind of "deity", maybe not personifed like here but definitely there is

[@ronniemora8469]

@@sigmaohiogyattfanumrizz we all have opinions. No one can prove either way

[@sigmaohiogyattfanumrizz]

@@ronniemora8469 right, thats why we dont call stuff we dont agree with "myths"

[@hanz1491]

The Bible: the word of god, written by everyone except god 😂

[@gandalainsley6467]

You mixed it up with Quran. Why would God write a book? Bible is accounts of events and word of God but not in literal sense word. Its in broader sense what God showed.

[@Brosowski]

Word OF God, not FROM God...

[@sigmaohiogyattfanumrizz]

And how does that debunk anything? I think it would be even worse and harder to defend if christians said the bible was written by God lol...

[@hanz1491]

@@sigmaohiogyattfanumrizz yeah but it would make their case stronger if their almighty god actually wrote the book and sent it to us instead of “inspiring” a bunch of men in the desert to write it. How exactly would a Christian know for sure that these words are inspired by god and not just made up?

[@derkylos]

God: "I need to impart knowledge to my favoured creation. How shall I do it? I know, I'll tell someone a story and have them pass that on through word of mouth, then tell them to write it down a few generations later. That couldn't fail." Me: "I need to tell my son something. Should I make a KZbin post asking for volunteers to tell him, or knock on his door and tell him to his face?"

[@jonny-mp3]

Great points raised, would love to hear a rebuttal

[@RoninTF2011]

Watch the debate then....full lenght availble

[@jonny-mp3]

@@RoninTF2011 I found it and I have, was a disappointing rebuttal in my opinion

[@RoninTF2011]

@@jonny-mp3 did'nt expect much from D'Souza....so I was not dissappointed. Low enough expectations I guess

[@gardenamusic]

Would so love to see conversations between you and more substantial representatives of Biblical scholarship like Dr. Tim Mackie of The Bible Project or Dr. N.T. Wright! As a follower of Jesus, I always appreciate your evident thoughtfulness and genuine care for the subject, as well as your consistently sharp insight!

[@chrisford9045]

" sharp insight" !!! he's as spiritually blind as a ant !!!

[@BlockyBookworm]

@@chrisford9045 So his real eyes work perfectly well, then.

[@chrisford9045]

@BlockyBookworm that's not good enough, in time ,it will come back to bite him hard ,in the ass

[@louissivo9660]

I think back to when I told friends that I was agnostic and why; now I watch Alex and realize the way I explained myself probably sounded like a 7 year old. Alex is amazing with his sharp mind and eloquence. I love that we have KZbin so that I can be exposed to all his debates.

[@pmaitrasm]

Based upon the performance, preparedness, and patience of Alex O’Connor in his debates, he appears to be a formidable opponent. Dinesh D’Souza did the best a man could possibly do. The things he mentioned in the debate are things most teenagers born in a Roman Catholic family would say. This is because they simply accept what their church fathers say. The church fathers get away with saying anything because nobody in the church will ever question or counter the church father. Dinesh D’Souza also typically speaks to his own coterie of audience. In other words, just like the church fathers, Dinesh D’Souza has traditionally been preaching to the choir. Could anyone else have done better in place of Dinesh D’Souza? I highly doubt it. It is very difficult to defend a position that the god of NT is the same as the god of OT. Most people don’t question this because they seek safety in numbers, do not want to be isolated, and would not take a contrarian position to what is generally perceived as the _kata holicos,_ or opinion of everybody, except that ‘everybody’ is typically a small group. Here is a hypothetical situation. - Make a team of three people, with the following members: (1) Patriarch of the Orthodox Church, (2) Pope of the Vatican, (3) the top individual from the biggest of the Protestant churches. - Now pit this team against Alex O’Connor. Chances are, Alex O’Connor would still win. If the debate drags on for a long time over several days, then chances are, the three members in the team, instead of fighting Alex O’Connor, would start fighting each other, and might even end up anathemizing each other.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

dinesh was out of his depth and he always has been, this is the last thing he is cut out for, the man is a dik.

[@pmaitrasm]

​@@HarryNicNicholas, Dinesh did start with an _ad hominem._ That was rude.

[@celestialnubian]

"Could anyone else have done better in place of Dinesh D’Souza?" I can't believe that's even a question. Yes, there are many many people that could articulate a case for Christianity better than Dinesh though Alex would beat them too. Dinesh is not an above average person nor is he an intellectual. He's a theocratic racist who attempts to mask his insecurities with false erudition.

[@chekitatheanimatedskeptic6314]

Those are very interesting questions that I asked myself many times when dealing with my own doubts when I was still a christian, but in the end they only touch the surface of the problem of trust in the Bible. In my opinion the most important questions one needs to ask about texts that state themselves to be divine is their origin, composition and what makes them actually different from any other text that claims to be divine, or other texts period. Simply those 3 points demonstrate that to trust in the bible, just as in any other "sacred" text you have to accept that humans just like you and me were creating something which clearly is full of their own mistakes and problems without any input from themselves (creativity, lies, exaggeration, bias, preconcepts, racism, etc). There is simply no text on earth that doesn't share those same characteristics and as such there is no text on earth that should be taken as truth (or trusthworthiness) without first being modest about itself (like a scientific paper) and demonstrating it has standards and not claiming to be divine in the first place. I would say that first and foremost any text that claims to be divine to prove it's own worthiness already failed to be a divine text.

[@adaptivelearner6162]

Many biblical scholars will tell you that the bible was devinely inspired, this is not the same as being literally written by God himself.

[@lVideoWatcherl]

@@adaptivelearner6162 Where is the difference to any of the other religious texts then? If I told you the Illiad was 'divinely inspired', does that make it true? Or do these people somehow have a direct communication line to the god-creature they assume to exist which allows them to ask about which text is actually 'divinely inspired', yet they want to keep it for themselves? Many people can claim many things. The reason science is superior to basically any other epistemology is that it has clear guidelines, defines its methodology and delivers testable, repeatable results which oftentimes forecast the future provably and accurately. Theology has never once delivered in that regard, and it doesn't even have a set methodology. Even well-renowned biblical scholars don't use theological methodology to evaluate the bible; they use scientific methodology, literature analysis and methods of the field of history to analyze the text.

[@adaptivelearner6162]

​@@lVideoWatcherl "Even well-renowned biblical scholars don't use theological methodology to evaluate the bible" This is the most moronic statement I have ever read. This because, theology does have a method and, that is contextualising the bible and, its teachings and historical accounts. If one takes a passage from the bible out of its historical Jewish context then they are going to misinterpret that passage and the rest of the bible. This is systematic theology 101, science is a result of thousands of years of philosophy which is concerned with the nature of reality and morality. I hope you don't live in Europe which has been built on the moral foundations of Christianity.

[@tonygrout6767]

This is the biggest cliffhanger I’ve ever seen 😅

[@jefcaine]

Props to Dinesh for taking on this debate as it’s way harder to defend the Bible than some vague notion of god. Too bad he didn’t come as prepared as Alex.

[@danielbarrera8391]

I don't know how you can even come prepared to defend something which doesn't even have a solid foundation. No one who defends religion could truly do so without throwing aside their conscience and intuition and the ability to reason and think.

[@isaiahschill192]

@@danielbarrera8391I mean that’s just entirely wrong. Some of the most brilliant and revolutionary philosophers have been Christian.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

he's done enough debates to know he isn't cut out to even be a christian let alone a debater.

[@falsevacuum4667]

Yeah I will say I at least appreciate that he allowed Alex his introduction uninterrupted.

[@chrispysaid]

@@isaiahschill192 said brilliant and revolutionary philosophers throw aside their consciences and intuition and reasoning when it comes to defending the God claim

[@kinsumandal2467]

Before Reading the Bible I was an Agonistic person but after reading the Bible I became an Atheist.

[@philliprobinson7724]

Hi. Why do you let just one belief system define your decision to believe in God? I went through a similar "anti-epiphany" sixty years ago, but instead asked myself "is it possible God is actually a scientific person?" Cheers, P.R.

[@PlayzBlanston]

Great opening statement especially considering Mr. Bad faith actor insisted on you going first to, idk, defend your withholding of belief?

[@user-ou4wr4ko9t]

No, apologist understand that the Bible is ridiculous, hence the apologist stance. They like to have someone else arguments first because it easier to misconstrue it. To advocate for the Bible on its own accord is ridiculous, but in opposition to others viewpoints you can manipulate the narrative.

[@tonyxxdtfamous9581]

@@user-ou4wr4ko9t how do you know that?

[@user-ou4wr4ko9t]

@@tonyxxdtfamous9581 Listening to Peterson

[@FinnAppelt]

​@@tonyxxdtfamous9581 by watching debates and listening to apologists

[@tonyxxdtfamous9581]

@@user-ou4wr4ko9t ok

[@crazyprayingmantis5596]

Ive brought all of this up with my father in law who is a Lutheran pastor and he simply doesn't seem to care, he just says he knows Jesus loves him and he has faith and wouldn't want to live in a world without Jesus's love. He also said to me and i quote "you need things to make sense before you believe them"

[@philliprobinson7724]

Hi C.P.M. Your father-in-law must have holes in his feet: not stigmata type holes, but holes from shooting himself in the foot. Cheers, P.R.

[@crazyprayingmantis5596]

@@philliprobinson7724 😄 What do you say to someone who tells you that you need things to make sense before you believe them? I mean he's basically saying that he doesn't need things to make sense he just has "faith" that it'll all make sense one day when he's dead. I didn't know what to say to him after he said that, I remember thinking to myself "and you don't?" I also asked him the an Unfalsifiable question which was, what would need to be proven true that would render your belief false? And he replied, nothing could render my belief false. I then explained why that's a problem and he also didn't care. He became very upset when I questioned the validity of faith for determining truth and he told me "I'm a man of Faith" and said he would never talk about theis subject again with me. And we haven't, that was about 8yrs ago. He did apologise to me the day after for getting so worked up and not being able to control himself (his eyes lit up like fire) it's funny because I don't believe Satan exists but I tell people that the closest thing I've ever seen to Satan was in the eyes of a pastor. Even though he's the most gentle and kind man I've ever met, I saw something in his eyes that day I've never seen, I must have hit a raw nerve deep inside him. I learnt a lot about why he believes what he believes that day and understand now that he believes purely for emotional reasons.

[@Mac_an_Mheiriceanaigh]

There is a reason why they say 'ignorance is bliss'.

[@ezpzlemonsqueezy90]

Dinesh had to resort to making fun of your accent. His opening position was an ad hominem lol

[@pmaitrasm]

Dinesh should know that out of the two of them, the Englishman wasn’t the one speaking English with an accent.

[@FinnAppelt]

​@@pmaitrasmwell all languages are accents its just that one is yours

[@MeMyselfAndEyez]

Anyone know the name of the news website Alex has mentioned as being a sponsor of some of his content? I'm trawling through videos unable to find any mention of it now! Thanks in advance.

[@adaptivelearner6162]

I think it is called Ground news

[@MeMyselfAndEyez]

@@adaptivelearner6162 that's the one, thanks!

[@thomasdesmond2233]

Was this debate before or after the release of Dinesh’s magnum opus 2000 Mules?

[@robinhood20253]

Glad we have this debate for days when we feel low , like religion is destroying the world , we can spend a couple hours watching comedy relief

[@randomRyze]

Religion has indeed caused irreparable damage to the world, not to mention the fact that we would be far more advanced today if Christianity didn’t halt our progress for centuries.

[@MFBjosejuFanNumberUan2047]

These redditors man 😂

[@MichaelJPartyka]

1) The problem with the "Adam and Eve don't die right away" argument is that it presupposes that Adam and Eve were created intrinsically immortal rather than dependent on the Tree of Life for their immortality. In the book of Revelation, we're told that the inhabitants of the new Jerusalem will eat from the Tree of Life perpetually, implying that this is necessary for their continued existence. But in the metaphorical sense, the Tree of Life is *connection with God* -- as Jesus says, "This is eternal life -- to know you, the true God." What God is saying to Adam and Eve, then, is that when they corrupt themselves by eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil -- which is an ordinary tree, by the way; it is only God's command to Adam and Eve that they not eat of it that makes it special, and their fall is brought about entirely by the self-corruption required of them to reject God's morality and establish their own (thus acquiring "their own" knowledge of good and evil, which the Bible is constantly admonishing man to reject in favor of God's knowledge) -- they will be denied access to that intimate connection with God because they have disobeyed and offended him. And because you cannot have eternal life without that connection with God, they will have in effect caused themselves to die in that day, though the effect would not take hold for a long time (the same way if you drink a poison that has no antidote, you have killed yourself that very day, even if the poison takes a number of days to kill you). 2) In a book that says God flooded the whole world to destroy all of humanity except for one family because the rest of the world was corrupt beyond belief, it's hardly rational to take issue with God's commanding the Israelites to annihilate a particular population of humanity because they were corrupt beyond belief, especially when the point of God's choosing the Israelites was to make them demonstrate both his love of righteousness and his hatred of sin toward the world. The Bible doesn't put human life on a pedestal as if it is always right to leave alive those who will do nothing but bring further degradation to the world. That's why the Old Testament has not only the death penalty on an individual level but also on a corporate level. You can have a group of people who, by way of culture and beliefs, are so corrupt that it is entirely possible that what's best for the world is their eradication. Only God, however, has the power to make that judgment -- and in the cases mentioned here, God does make that explicit judgment, and orders the Israelites to carry it out as the carriers of his will to the world. 3) Slavery isn't advocated in the Old Testament so much as regulated. Slavery was simply a fact of human life in both Old and New Testament times. (It's a fact of human life today, actually -- the difference is that today more people object to it than not.) In olden times, the captives of war often had two options: slavery or death -- take slavery off the table, and what, in those times, did you have left to offer? Freedom to reorganize and come back and fight again? Moreover, slavery was often used as a way to pay off debts or avoid starving. In a world that had yet to invent the concept of bankruptcy law or establish widespread social welfare systems, slavery was how some people avoided imprisonment or death. Horrible as it is to be without freedom, it is a Western conceit to think that slavery is the worst thing that can be imposed on a person. (From a New Testament perspective, it must also be remembered that God never intended the Old Testament theocratic system of government to be a permanent system, just one best suited to the time in which it existed.) 4) There are those who argue that the Gospel contradictions are actually positive evidence for the authenticity of the Gospels -- e.g., "If there were no contradictions, what you'd have is a single eyewitness account told four different ways, but instead what you have is four eyewitness accounts, which is even better evidence." And even as far back as Origen in the third century A.D. we have arguments from esteemed Christian luminaries that John's Gospel cannot possibly be a rote historical account of, but is rather an allegorical spin on, Jesus' earthly ministry. So very early on in Christianity the "truth" of the Gospels was thought by some Christians to mean the essential truths God intended to be communicated, not "truth" at the standard of 100% historicity or literal correctness.

[@asphalthedgehog6580]

A list like yours is exactly why I left the church. Couldn't cope with such a load of nonsense. Better be quiet no-one with any sense can take this. You might be judged by believing these stories. God gave humans big great brains to think for themselves, not for using an ancient book written by people who knew nothing.

[@MichaelJPartyka]

@@asphalthedgehog6580 Ancient people who had nothing to go on but their own experiences of life were likely far wiser about life, and how best to live it, than anyone living today, given how much time we spend immersed in fantasy worlds (including social media). Which is not to say they were always right about the facts of history and science, but you don't need that sort of rectitude to live a good and meaningful life.

[@asphalthedgehog6580]

@@MichaelJPartyka yes I agree on that. However I see no point in defending the bible, and certainly the old testament. Telling people they go to hell if they don't believe the stories of genesis only makes people say: this is total baloney, so probably the whole bible is. If pastors keep preaching Adam, Eve and the story of Noah is true, well I guarantee you that Christianity will end quickly completely. That's not to say indeed you can live a life that is ok. My sons believe nothing, but have Christian standards of living, and I think this has nothing to do with the bible. Most humans simply know exactly what is right and what is wrong. Why? You don't want to hurt anyone, because you yourself don't want to be hurt.

[@MichaelJPartyka]

@asphalthedgehog6580 I would argue most humans know only the fundamentals of what is right and what is wrong and do a lot of harm to themselves, others, and society not knowing the rest. That's why even though the overwhelming majority of people are not murderers and thieves, we still normally divide that majority into "good" and "bad" people.

[@Utopian1234]

I never understood how the regulation of slavery is okay because "that's how it was back then" Why would an immortal god who had no problem stating what he believed to be immoral, bend to the will of his subordinates? Also because the gospels are so different that proves its accuracy? what? if the entire bible is based on eyewitness accounts, and when 4 of them are pitted against each other, they disagree heavily, what does that say for the accuracy of the rest of the Bible?

[@Emma-cy9lp]

The lighting is out of this world 😍

[@charlief4514]

I see and understand the title but it would have been reasonable and nice to hear the response to the questions from the man you are debating.

[@chonk6683]

Lv 1 Christian crook vs lv 100 Atheist boss 💀💀💀 (edit: I am a theist, but Dinesh is grasping at straws throughout this, and is losing theologically to an atheist.... Really just a very weak attempt from somebody who's unqualified to even be a representative... He's almost there to make it look bad..)

[@Michael-kp4bd]

And only the one with a very strong academic background and curious inquiry into legitimate theological study? The atheist 😅

[@tourdeflores2693]

english or spanish?

[@EYECRAFTVideo]

THIS IS WHY YOUR CHILDREN CANT TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A BOY & A GIRL - WHERE IS THE SCIENCE

[@graysenvanderkant7712]

He's literally a theist?

[@SecularM0nk]

Dinesh has the face of every person who hasn't read the bible being read the bible...bewilderment.

[@AtanuKDey]

@SecularM0nk I am sure that Dinesh has read the bible. It's just that he has not understood the bible. Reading does not guarantee comprehension. In "A Fish called Wanda", one guy objects to his girlfriend calling him stupid. He says, "I'm not stupid. I read Alexis DeToqueville's Democracy in America." His girlfriend replies, "Even monkeys can be taught to read. Question is whether they understand what they read." (Paraphrased.)

[@jasonmcaleenan1748]

No clips from this debate on Dineshs KZbin. Can't imagine why.

[@David-tj3jg]

Is the full debate anywhere?

[@hannotn]

Loved Alex's last sentence or two, inviting D'Souza to joust. He was like a sentient shark, twitching his tail at the anticipation of blood in the water.

[@martinjoseferreyra1961]

Pageau just released a video responding to the immediate death part

[@sh0k0nes]

And it's apologetic gibberish. Words don't mean what they mean and adding things to the text that aren't there. Why isn't the bible CRYSTAL clear so we don't have to have these conversations 1000s of years later? A supposed omnipotent god couldn't write a book that could be understood by all, no matter what language...foolishness.

[@EYECRAFTVideo]

THIS IS WHY YOUR CHILDREN CANT TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A BOY & A GIRL - WHERE IS THE SCIENCE

[@justdoit9596]

only because you win a debate doesn't say necessarly that you are right imagine you convince someone/all of a wrong solution of a mathematical equation

[@inktologist]

Brilliantly said Alex. A perfectly short collection of issues that are often neglected by believers.

[@eselwalker]

You made a great statement I’m looking into these statements You’re very good at expressing yourself and I admire your vocabulary and pauses I’m a cristian your words don’t shake my faith Keep up the good work 🎉

[@AndyCampbellMusic]

The problem with faith, is that it is indistinguishable from stupidity and a licence for liars and charlatans to exploit the fearful, desperate and gullible...

[@brandonowilliams]

@@AndyCampbellMusiceveryone has faith, whether you have faith in god, evolution, atheism, it’s all a form of faith. You can’t prove any of the fore mentioned things so to believe any of them requires a degree of faith.

[@BW-zq2tu]

@@brandonowilliams Let's not pretend that these "Degrees of faith" are equivalent. And I would argue that taking a position of non-belief doesn't really require faith at all.

[@pmaitrasm]

​@@brandonowilliams, Atheism is not faith, but I see why your comment displays the Aristotle’s Bronze Disk Syndrome.

[@BurningBushPedagogy]

It doesn't shake your faith, didn't the bible say, test every spirit, seek etc. What is the spirit behind one that says go and kill because they are this and that, where is LOVE.? What if really they lied to us cleverly and what you been made to belief is not the truth, you will just stay there till your doom?. You should be curious, like the Berean church according to Apostle Paul. Stop praying to a deity you are greater than, it's sll sun worship. Go and shake the lies off and seek the real truth. Instead of trekking, maybe you need a horse, our so called Christianity could be a lie, and like trekking to the wrong direction, the truth is like get the horse to the real truth. But you may never understand, mercy mercy be shown to the innocent and good people that systems carefully prepared lies and errors to, all these generations. Jump out of that evil water getting hot and hotter, not like the the comfortable frog who stayed in the warm water died by the time it got too hot, it was too late, I am not moving, this and that doesn't shake my faith, this is what I know, I am not shaking? OK?

[@Cloudryder]

Alex, Have you read 1177 B.C. The Year Civilization Collapsed by Eric H. Cline? After reading this you’ll probably want to interview Mr. Cline.

[@Steelmage99]

"After reading this you’ll probably want to interview Mr. Cline." About what, and why?

[@FinnAppelt]

​@@Steelmage99Probably about the book, because its good

[@Cloudryder]

@@Steelmage99The subversion of palace-based command economies into decentralized economic systems that we still use today. Pretty much explains why the Abrahamic religions were so successful.

[@Steelmage99]

@@FinnAppelt Sigh. What makes it good? What interesting perspectives does it present in general, and to Alex's in particular?

[@FinnAppelt]

@@Steelmage99 idk, thought i'd give a teaser insight until the original Commenter replys

[@TR-zf6io]

You may not see this comment among the thousands, but I wanted to say, I've been watching your content since your university desk held only a dozen or two books. 7 years I've been watching. I have always enjoyed your content and am impressed and proud of where you've taken your channel and life. Well done.

[@infiniteworfare5089]

yeah. hes not gonna see it.

[@pelaeomea]

@@infiniteworfare5089 I felt it though

[@infiniteworfare5089]

@@pelaeomea good. its good to see that not everyone become delusional.

[@jeffburman7832]

Could the word no been in abbreviation for a specific type of staff?

[@leo--4341]

christians have built up their god, messiah, and themselves as morally righteous people yet when push comes to shove, they act as most ordinary pagans would act

[@MusoStuu]

Alex, it’s quite incredible, you’re literally asking some of the questions I asked my church leaders, verbatim. Especially some of the more specific messianic prophecies in early Matthew concerning Jesus’ birth place. Getting in touch if you want to know some real corkers in terms of discrepancies between Gospel Accounts.

[@downenout8705]

There isn't a gospel "discrepancy" that can't be cured with a very large dose of apologetic snake oil.

[@strangetheology]

Noticed you didn’t post the response, why is that?

[@ethpareguth8789]

Go watch the full length. Short bits get people interested in watching the full length.

[@Nick-ij5nt]

Ya, the fact that Dinesh was getting cooked on these low tier arguments really says a lot. You should debate Jay Dyer instead.

[@xravenx24fe]

Yes please I'd pay to see that. It'll be Dillamonke 2.0 except Alex is a lot better faith I'll certainly give him credit for that.

[@Nick-ij5nt]

@@xravenx24fe "but muh monke value🐒" lmao Ya, Alex is definitely more good faith than Dillamonke, but I think he's still set in his ways. Alex went on a whole monologue about how he's researched every single piece of evidence and still doesn't see any evidence for God. Like really? You can't just ignore all the evidence and then say there's no evidence.

[@Ronnie-ip7ft]

The Gospels are great fan fiction about a Jewish Apocalyptic that really wanted God to punish Rome…and then Rome co-opted the movement and made it into a church. Starts to sing isn’t ironic…don’t ya think.

[@mrinalbharti4725]

Dinesh promoting Christianity is so funny to me considering the whole history of Christianity in India.

[@IsomerSoma]

The english are hardly the fault of christianity tho.

[@user-ou4wr4ko9t]

​@@IsomerSomayou're right, every European nation is the cause of Christianity destruction of European culture. Cowards who refused to fight back against the pillagers. A common trope of European history

[@Ifoughtpiranhas]

Like most of the people he rubs elbows with, promoting Christianity is all part of the grift and power grab.

[@editor7354]

St Thomas came to India… if u think it’s colonialism? Then…

[@pxrkhali3363]

We he is most likely a self-hater, the type of Indian who dunks on their people to gain validation from whites.

[@smokert5555]

By the end of that, i'm guessing Dinesh was feeling just a tad bit worried.

[@forbeginnersandbeyond6089]

Alex is SOOOO right! The Bible can be so illogical.

[@signposts6189]

He isn't. His interpretations of Scripture are illogical, which you confuse with Scripture itself.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

@@signposts6189 whatever, the bible is a badly written book of ripped off stories that are full of plot holes cos there is no god in the first place.

[@skindred1888]

@@signposts6189 oh not at all. It's a dumb book with bronze age goat herder morality. The amount of plot holes and contradictions is hilarious. People are just plain lying to you bud

[@signposts6189]

@skindred1888 If only. That's just a plain foolish take, bruh. You allege plot holes and contradictions, which are on you to demonstrate or prove. So, name one or two that is beyond doubt.

[@EYECRAFTVideo]

THIS IS WHY YOUR CHILDREN CANT TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A BOY & A GIRL - WHERE IS THE SCIENCE

[@davec-1378]

Don’t ya know Alex, God gave you an intrinsic moral compass, but you’re supposed to ignore that compass if it disagrees with God claims? Makes perfect sense

[@JimBobJoeB0b]

I saw Redeemed Zoomer use this bs argument, I couldn’t help but cringe.

[@fifikusz]

Which God?

[@user-ys4tp6vl5z]

How do you know that god gave Alex a moral compass?

[@derkylos]

@@user-ys4tp6vl5z *For the bible told me so* jingle intensifies.

[@brandonowilliams]

@@user-ys4tp6vl5zbecause there are objective, absolute morals that humans intrinsically have. Doesn’t mean you have to follow them.

[@MusoStuu]

“Take your pick”… Alex, you really are developing your own personal style ❤

[@Gusto747]

Alex, I really appreciate your sincerity in searching for truth. One analogy came to me regarding your view of the Christian faith. It relates to sport. Choose a sport such as football. There are two types of people who see the exact same thing - men running around kicking a ball. One person can’t see what the fuss is all about. The other joins tens of thousand in the stadium cheering and loves every minute of it.

[@chrisford9045]

One day when you stand before the judgement bar of God, then you will understand what all the fuss is about

[@LittleMAC78]

​@@chrisford9045anyone holding the threat of "God's Judgement" over the head of someone who doesn't share their belief is ignoring that, according to doctrine, we were all given free will. That alleged free will leads some people towards religion and some people away. If you truly believe in the doctrines then you know it isn't your place to threaten or make judgements on your god's behalf.

[@chrisford9045]

@@LittleMAC78 Jude 1:23 “And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.” King James Version (KJV)

[@nathaniellopez6438]

It's a book of fiction. If you try making it real, it falls apart. Stop making it so difficult.

[@EYECRAFTVideo]

THIS IS WHY YOUR CHILDREN CANT TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A BOY & A GIRL - WHERE IS THE SCIENCE - DONT TALK ABOUT FICTION YOUR DILUTED

[@jasonmuise4199]

If you watch closely you can actually watch the case of adult diapers Dinesh went through in this clip alone. Quite amazing really….

[@Blu3wonder]

Listing all the pros and cons of the potential rabbit-holes and saying "...take your pick" is one hell of a daunting opener

[@Watch3rOfTheSkies]

This video makes me feel like I did as a young atheist in 2010 watching Christopher Hitchens debates on KZbin.

[@LetoATX]

Alex is Hitchens reborn.

[@HangrySaturn]

Yup

[@Swinefeld]

I’d like to think so but Hitch had a nastier edge. He didn’t just defeat his opponents but he delighted in their misery.

[@andybanan1992]

​@@Swinefeldalex is still relatively young, let him debate for as many years as Hitchens did and you will eventually see his tone shift aswell

[@thoughtful1233]

He's much too polite.

[@enzorocha2977]

I was about to write the very same comment right after watching this episode, but thought better of it a little later. I believe saying Alex is Hitchens reborn would probably be insulting to both of them (if Hitch were still alive). Chris is Chris, Alex is Alex. They have totally different approaches, different demeanor when debating. In fact, Alex has a video criticizing Hitch for his sophistry (kzbin.info/www/bejne/nKDToGx7bLp0jLM). I may be wrong, but the only thing they have in common, aside from atheism, is their nationality. I think Hitch even said he's anti-theistic (more in attack mode than not), whereas Alex is more Socratic and more inclined to slow-cook his interlocutor lol

[@stephenwodz7593]

Why would an omnipotent, all-wise God choose to pass on essential inforrmation using something as nebulous and problematic as LITERATURE. Consider all the problems we have with copying (not always accurate), translation (often a matter of opinion), distribution (incredibly time-consuming before electronic communication), literacy (before the 20th century, most people were illiterate), and, of course, interpretation (very much dependent on politics). God could have avoided all these issues by simply downloading all this information directly into our brains in a form we would each understand perfectly. He is, after all, omnipotent.

[@maxabdulhadi]

He does but anyone who says they feel God’s presence is ridiculed by atheists.

[@youssefalaoui4286]

Your Life (consciousness) IS God. It is all there is.

[@oldpossum57]

I’m afraid the theists will miss the point. Mr. maxabdulhadi already has!

[@adaptivelearner6162]

It's actually much harder to alter the varous versions of the bible with the same essential information as opposed to saving it on a computer which can be corrupted with one push of button across all platforms. Also, what if the Government bans certain websites or passages. That's the problem with leaving everything in the digital realm control over it is far more centralised than let's say hard copied books.

[@drsatan3231]

​@@maxabdulhadiif put a bunch of talking flaming bushes all over the place which constantly dictated the bible in every language then I'd believe

[@commi3mark]

Absolutely dismantled.

[@Epoch11]

I don't know if you read the comments but if you do, you definitely should have a talk with Douglas Murray. Both of you seem to possess an excellent ability at rhetoric. Which in my mind would make for a thoroughly entertaining video. Just a suggestion my friend.

[@EnglishMike]

Ugh no. His far-right polemics are no better that D'Souza's.

[@waltpowell7254]

I also find it fascinating that as smart as Ben Shapiro is he allows himself to be twisted in pretzels trying to defend this stuff. I find that most conservatives have basic common sense and are very intelligent, but for some reason many of them still believe in the Supernatural

[@Steelmage99]

"but for some reason many of them still believe in the Supernatural" Can they then be said to have basic common sense and being very intelligent (or at least more so than non-conservatives)?

[@aralornwolf3140]

Ben isn't smart... he's just good at pretending to be smart. He employs fallacies constantly, but it's much harder to correct him as he speaks quickly. Most conservatives, imo, aren't exactly full of common sense, considering how easily lead they are by con-men...

[@loganmanderfield1162]

What's so insane about the supernatural?

[@FinnAppelt]

​@@loganmanderfield1162nothing really, most of the other stuff he believes is so much more insane 😂

[@FinnAppelt]

Ben might be smart, but hes a grifter/caught up in his worldview, (hard to tell these days) he won't ever get intelligent, because he will refuse to listen to experts on literally anything His religious believes are the least crazy thing about it

[@michaelsands442]

3 views but 12 likes.... it's as magic as the magic book... But i live Alex. The Years live watch him grow... it really feels like a community. I DO wish he hasn't quite so diplomatic though. Hopefully in the future, he'll be less reticent to just call someone a liar or snake oil salesman

[@viralshark]

The view and like counters don't update consistently together at the same time.

[@3leggedfish41]

3 views and 12 likes? Explain that atheists!

[@FinnAppelt]

I think thats what makes alex great, he engages in the best faith way possible, he interacts like youd imagine jesus woul interact turning metaphoriical cheek after cheek, thats what makes him so great And thats what will actually get through to christians If they feel insulted it will take them longer to even consider arguments

[@FinnAppelt]

​@@3leggedfish41you got us. Its our atheist gay demons possesing the like button

[@speakatron5634]

@@FinnAppelt So true! Couldn't have put it better myself.

[@liamthomas2014]

Defending the concept of a creator is where religions usually do well in deabtes cos you got some good philiosiphical arguments. Defending the texts is usually a horror show. Theres so much to attack.

[@misterx3188]

8:49 - Great point.

[@anothermike4825]

If god has a plan for us, doesn't that mean that our futures are set and we have no free will? God has plan for you and he knows what is going to happen in your life because he planned it that way. Who would want to worship a god that condemns you for what he made you do? No one ever said religious people were smart.

[@TheConvictedPrince]

You’re clearly no smarter than anyone you would insult.

[@MarkBonneaux]

the church i go to with my family did a stint over Revelations a couple of months ago, and something about it caught my attention. the rapture of the 144,000 there will be more than that many people on earth at the time of the rapture and the 144K will be saved by their free-will choice to follow God isntead of the anti-christ. but here's the thing, if the Bible is taken as exacting fact, then the implication is that once the 144Kth person becomes "saved" by their faith, there's no more room on the metaphorical boat for anyone else. anyone not already on the boat is SOL and doomed by prophecy to not get to be saved. where's their free will? this is predestination full-stop, contradicting the free-will supposedly given in Genesis with the eating of the fruit.

[@falsevacuum4667]

I'm an Atheist, but I think when people say the Christian God has a plan they more so mean that he has some desired purpose or outcome from your life and will take minor actions to reveal it to you and show you the way, but you with your free will need to seek out God's desire for your life and choose to fulfill it. At least that was my understanding while I was a Christian. Of course, that still implies that God is directly interfering with all of our lives to manipulate us into predetermined paths, at which point what is the reason for even creating free will if God is all powerful and has a preferred outcome, but yeah.

[@anothermike4825]

@@falsevacuum4667 That is what I was getting at, if he is manipulating you to do what he wants, you don't have free will.

[@TheTruthKiwi]

If I may speak on behalf of humanity, thank you Alex for spending your precious time intelligently rationalising and reasoning people out of religion. Old myths and superstition is interesting history but is redundant as a world view, mainly because it most likely isn't true. The world would be a much better place without religious delusions and magical thinking.

[@adaptivelearner6162]

Then how come North Korea which is very secular and Stalinist Russia didn't reflect this New Atheist Utopia?

[@jeremiaha2672]

@@adaptivelearner6162 because they had authoritarian views and ideologies centered around, well, authoritarian communism, with some past beliefs that would be considered far right today, such as women only needing to have the role as caretakers but nothing else, just for example.

[@jeremiaha2672]

@@adaptivelearner6162 if you’re referring to the past on both countries here, then that’s what I’m referring to, as for North Korea now, I think their leadership is pretty much a regime / has communist ideology with authoritarian laws, but it’s not as completely diabolical as back then. I don’t see what that has to do with atheism though? Everyone of varying beliefs has different standards, cultures, and politics. That much is true, because where history is, people are raised, and what can be taught or is phenomena matters.

[@tacitozetticci9308]

@adaptivelearner6162 if that's the argument you're going for, you'll want a bigger sample than that, my guy

[@adaptivelearner6162]

@@jeremiaha2672 You essentially said nothing to rebut my point. That when Christianity falls something else will replace a new authority a new world order. What will the foundation of that be? Something tells me the better societies won't completely shut the door on Christianity. Even if they have become more secular.

[@hidum5779]

as a Hindu (agnostic), I'm immensely thankful for these clips. I was harassed by evangelicals quite a bit who kept trying to convince me about accepting their religion. Earlier I was friends with them as they seemed nice, but they subtly tried to brainwash me and almost succeeded. In the end some just revealed their true faces as they called my culture as "demonic". It took me a while to realize that this is a form of gaslighting and now if some old sweet christian lady comes to talk to me I just avoid or make it clear that I'm not accepting your religion. I was being pushed into a cult and I got out before the damage was done. On the side note, the guy you are debating has Indian roots so a high possibility at one time his ancestors might have been Hindu too.

[@ArthurTheUnbrokenBlade]

Iv'e been there, not the exact circumstances, but been there. A thinking mind is the bane of religions and control mechanisms; But they tell you, don't think, just believe.

[@chesterisaacs1621]

Hey Alex, can you make a case for the free will of God? Or for any agent at all?

[@garethtatler6886]

I trust the bible... I trust that it will hold the door open when I use it as a door wedge.

[@fartpooboxohyeah8611]

Alex has more respect for believers. You're too ignorant a person to see that.

[@pmaitrasm]

While Alex was making his opening statement, Dinesh, jealous of Alex’s British accent, like the jealous god Yahweh, was concocting his _ad hominem_ against Alex’s accent. 😂

[@marcusfossa6695]

You should read the Buddhist holy text, the Majhima Nikaya, and tell us what you think of it, that would be really cool.

[@javieradorno2503]

Well articulated as always! But for a moment I thought Alex was going in a different direction when he began with the Adam and Eve story. I personally think that a book that in its very first chapters warns its readers against thinking by themselves by punishing the main characters for not staying ignorant is a huge red flag and should not inspire trust.

[@Linkthebased]

Oki doki

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

I'm no scholar but a simple Christian believer. I don't understand it all but I do trust the truthfulness of Jesus' words. Study is good but unfortunately we are not infallible. I believe Jesus' teachings point to the ultimate meaning of life. I think that Jesus' teachings are good explanations for the purpose of life. I try to be always open-minded and listen carefully. So I appreciate and respect the views of others. Peace to all of you.

[@downenout8705]

So to be clear you trust a guy that you have never met and only know about from a collection of heresy stories written by anonymous authors decades after the event some two thousand years ago. A guy that never said a single bad word against all the depravities in the Old testament. You definitely need to find better people to "trust".

[@BigSlimyBlob]

Unfortunately no one knows what Jesus' teachings are as he left no writings, and no one who knew him left any writings either. Closest we have are the writings of Paul, who heard stories about a man (or multiple men) and made a mental picture of Jesus in his own head. He met another man who claimed to be Jesus' brother and let that change the picture in his head. He claimed to have visions, and believed they were true. I wonder, if he existed and could see what "christianity" is today, what he'd think of it. Most likely it would be something like "That's crazy, I said less than 10% of those things and I strongly disagree with half of the things that were erroneously attributed to me".

[@ichthyostegaxd3727]

@@BigSlimyBlob Matthew, John, Peter?

[@BigSlimyBlob]

​@@ichthyostegaxd3727 None of those. Gospels, any writings with evangelists' name on them, were by unknown authors and those names were added later. For Peter it's not much more controversial. Study of the two epistles attributed to Peter suggest they were written by two different people, in a way and language that was virtually impossible for Peter to have the capacity to write, and the church admitted this much a millenia and a half ago. There are no firsthand accounts. Everything we "know" about Jesus is hearsay. And who knows how much of that hearsay was about him and not a couple other random people who went against the grain around that time. We have little to no idea what he was like. Best we can tell, some weird middle-eastern guy who had unusual ideas about religion.

[@skindred1888]

@@ichthyostegaxd3727 thosenames are just Christian traditions, named centuries after they wrote it by the church.

[@ritterheather39]

You should ask Jack Hibbs the same questions. I'd love to hear his answers.

[@vecnejhipik5349]

It is incredible to see you debate this man after watching Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens debate this man for years. Thank you for doing this.

[@Shawn-nq7du]

An atheist is unqualified to interpret scripture. Belief is based on faith and reason, which make Alex unqualified on both accounts. That is why Alex comes to such faulty, erroneous conclusions.

[@RoninTF2011]

You know Alex is on point, when the opposing side answers with nothing but childish ad hominem.

[@Shawn-nq7du]

@@RoninTF2011 Alex is way off point. He is clever and shrewd, but his understanding of the Bible is lacking. He is a heretic.

[@lizadowning4389]

@@Shawn-nq7du So one can only "interpret" the bible as christian zealots do? It may come as a surprise to you but there are many devout christian bible scholars that would argue as Alex does on several issues with the biblical manuscripts.

[@Mac_an_Mheiriceanaigh]

Your point doesn't make sense to me. If someone who doesn't believe cannot interpret scripture, how does someone come to believe? What is the point of the Bible if you're not supposed to read it unless you are already a believer?

[@cheshireket3132]

I've heard this before. This is how you discredit someone when they hit too close to home.