Did Jesus claim to be God? Bart Ehrman vs Peter J Williams

[@reversegearz]

When Jesus come back to our world later, he'll disappointed how people change his teachings to something totally different than what he originally said.

[@smalltimer4370]

When Jesus comes back, it will not be to talk things over - the Bible reveals He will be coming to rid the world of evil, and to save GOD's people from being exterminated

[@GeorgePenton-np9rh]

Only the Catholic Church retains the pure and entire message of Jesus Christ. All other churches or denominations are either schisms or heresies.

[@lina25yt]

@@GeorgePenton-np9rh if you belive Erhman, than the catholic bible is also inaccurate.

[@GeorgePenton-np9rh]

@@lina25yt I don't know where you got the idea that I agree with Ehrman. I strongly disagree with him. I believe strongly in the divinity of Christ. Ehrman makes the argument that only the gospel of John says Jesus is God and that the other three gospels do not. What I was saying is that in all four gospels Jesus let's people call Him "Lord", a term the Jews used almost exclusively for God, so that in my opinion all four gospels say Jesus is God.

[@smalltimer4370]

@George Penton It's worth noting that Jesus does not mention or associate the Catholic church in His message of salvation, but moreso, and that the temple(often translated church in English Bibles), is likened to Jesus' body, as-in, the body of Christian fellowship. And in contrast with the Catholic church(as it were), that would be formed several centuries following Jesus' death and resurrection, would not reflect Jesus teachings and commandments.

[@dronestar1118]

Moses parted the Red Sea.. Is he God? No.

[@efiq78]

ARE YOU SURE ABOUT RED SEA😀😀

[@Kenneth-nVA]

Exodus 14:21 says that the Lord did it not Moses

[@dronestar1118]

@@Kenneth-nVA show me in the Bible where Jesus says "I am God therefore worship me". Don't give me metaphors or conjecture. Give me verbatim.

[@dronestar1118]

@@efiq78 are you sure Jesus did anything on his own? Uh you won't find that anywhere in the Bible

[@dronestar1118]

@@efiq78 and yes I am sure about the Red Sea. The cutest thing about followers of Christ. None speak Aramaic and very few even read at all

[@booooo-urns]

You can’t beat someone that’s not even debating. Bart never puts himself out on a ledge during these discussions trying to prove a point. He understands the texts and just offers honest analysis. Love hearing him speak.

[@dumbsaraiki9167]

Muses pbuh was a prophet and as well as Jesus Pbuh too. But animies of humanity changed the words like i am not God, and they removed the word not. And that becomes an other beleif. Jesus said i am not the son of God and enemies of humanity removed the word not. Just a little change made Him God and all the christians till date now have not convinced any single human being that Jesus is God or the son of God because he was not a god or not a son of God. He was a true christ and he had miracles like other prophets. But when human will beleive blindly, than they are worst than animals because God has given the power to understand and in an other verse in the bible it is clearly mention that God is not a man and not the son of a man. In new testament God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill Aramaic Bible in Plain English God is not a man that He would lie, neither a son of man to be advised; He says and he does and his word stands for eternities. Quran Is the last book of God. And everything is clearly mention. And most imoortant thing the true words of God in the Quran according to christian are from devil. Because christains beleive what is written. I never mind we should beleive in the words of God. But the thing is what is being mentioned, it should be proved. Or even could easily convinced to your brain and no christian brother even can convince himself from one verse to an other and result is sheikh Yousuf Estes.

[@Raz.C]

@@smalltimer4370 It's not clear exactly who you think is full of shit. Ehrman or Williams?

[@christopherskipp1525]

​@@Raz.CEhrman is a bad foil.

[@diosdadoapias]

read his book-How Jesus became God.

[@garystanfield2274]

Bart knows nothing about truth. He pushes Jesus name which is a pagan lie and he definitely does not know the truth about how Immanuel became Yahweh the Father in the flesh.

[@mistabook]

Very impressive how Ehrman calmly and amicably returns the goalposts to their original position when it's his turn to speak again.

[@denisharris2889]

I think Ehrman is enjoying swimming himself in a pool of denying. He feels too good to deny and to present all possibilities and potholes to make his argument valid.. Is like a drug to him.

[@dog_curry]

@Caratacus where?

[@georgekennan6213]

@Caratacus That’s BS

[@georgekennan6213]

@Caratacus I think he means Jesus is presented as a divine being in the first 3 gospels. However he is not presented literally as god rather more of an //equal// to god or like an archangel sort of thing?

[@MoNtYbOy101]

@Caratacus that’s no the issue, the question is did Jesus himself claim his own divinity, Bart thinks not.

[@muhammadkhairulizat]

But Jesus himself said he would “prostrate” to the lord 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[@Puppythuppa]

Is it in your CULT BOOK UNHOLY QURAN? Lord Jesus Christ NEVER said such a Blasphemous thing.!! Lord Jesus Christ is God Almighty "Yahweh/Yahovah" Revealed and Manifested Himself in the Eternal Person of the Lord Yahshua/Jesus Christ.!! Unless He open your blinded eyes, you can't comprehend His Deity.!! 👉Numbers24:15-17; Psalms2:1-12; 110:1-7; Proverbs30:4; Isaiah9:6-7; Daniel2:34-49; 7:13-14; Micah 5:1-5; Zechariah 12-14; Malachi4:1-3; John 1:1-28; 8:24; 12:-44-48; 14:6-9; 2Corinthians 4:3-4; Colossians1:15-20;2:9-10; Hebrews1:1-13; Revelation 1:1-19;5:1-14; 19:11-21;20:1-15;21:5-8.!!👈

[@muhammadkhairulizat]

Rajesh Gowda Brave Hearted nah it is not a cult book, it is the holy al-Quran maybe now you’ll be that champion and as far you’ll know it you’ll drag from it, I can’t promise you now, but you’ll be drag about that al-Quran and then you’ll understand it very much, “some day” not today or any other day but you will drag when you need to know the truths 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[@muhammadkhairulizat]

Rajesh Gowda Brave Hearted if you said Jesus is your “lord” then how bout this... John 16 : 12- 14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come And this: Matthew 5:17 Do not think I have come to abolish the Law or the “Prophets”; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Why did you call him god?? 🤔🤔🤔

[@Puppythuppa]

@@muhammadkhairulizat The very Words of Christ and His Prophets and Apostles Refutes and dismantles all the Heretical claims of cult ISLAM.! Unholy Quran teaches against the God of the Bible and Double Curse is pronounced on those who introduce the Counterfeit false gospel against the Immutable Eternal Words of God, the Holy Bible.!!

[@Puppythuppa]

@@muhammadkhairulizat Promised Comforter Jesus promised to His Church is Holy Spirit whom Disciples RECEIVED On the 50th day after Christ's Glorious Resurrection, Not after 600 Years in Saudi Arabian cave cult.!! Muhammad was NOT a Spirit of God, Muhammad was a pagan idolatrous arab who NEVER read the Bible, he never believed in the God of the Bible, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob/Israel.!! Muhammad was worshipper of pagan idolatrous false moon god also known as Baal, Hubal, whom Muhammad named Allah and Satan possessed Muhammad and used him to fabricate his death cult and leading all his followers to Eternal Damnation.!

[@joelrodriguez1232]

9:53 Even if you get rid of the Gospels we still have the creed citations from Paul. which (following Bart's Chronology) would come long before Mark and back to the very beginning of the ancient Church.

[@deanodog3667]

But Paul never actually met jesus in the flesh ?!

[@joelrodriguez1232]

Debatable! But even if he never did, he got the creeds that were passed down to him for the Jerusalem apostles i.e Jesus's disciples. That by definition constitutes the earliest form of Christology. In other words, Jesus's disciples believed that he was divined from the very beginning.

[@deanodog3667]

@@joelrodriguez1232 it's not debatable at all it says in bible, have you even read it ??

[@joelrodriguez1232]

@@deanodog3667 according to Galatians and the book of acts, Paul persecuted the Church. The question is did he do it while Jesus was alive or after? So you are right. Paul never met him. But he may or may not have seen him which is a different thing.

[@deanodog3667]

@@joelrodriguez1232 so upon basis it could be argued that Paul's epistles influenced the gospels as they're earliest testimony of jesus and based upon accounts of a man who never actually met jesus?!

[@WALKTHEWALK-nj3oi]

Bart is an unbeliever. Notice I John 2: 22-23 "Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also." (ESV). The eternal Sonship of the Son of God is to be believed. It is part of the gospel. Further, here is one of the early creeds of the church: I Timothy 3: 16 "Without question, great is the mystery of godliness: God was revealed in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, taken up into glory." (MEV). God was manifested in the flesh. Jesus is God manifested in the flesh John 1: 14. That is a foundational teaching of the N.T.

[@alexshatner3907]

Exodus 3:14 and John 8:58 do not express the same thought We know that they do not because at Exodus 3:14 the Greek Septuagint Version (the translation that was often quoted by the apostles in the first century C.E.) reads, e•goʹ ei•miʹ ho Ohnʹ, “I am the Being.” This is quite different from the simple use of the words e•goʹ ei•miʹ (I am) at John 8:58. The verb ei•miʹ, at John 8:58, is evidently in the historical present, as Jesus was speaking about himself in relation to Abraham’s past. Numerous translators indicate this in their renderings. For example, An American Translation reads: “I existed before Abraham was born!” Not once, however, does the Bible state that Jesus is coeternal with God. Though Jesus enjoyed a prehuman existence of unspecified length in heaven, the Bible shows that he had a beginning of existence. He is called “the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation” and “the beginning [Greek, arké] of God’s creation.”-Col. 1:15; Rev. 3:14. The very fact that Jesus is called the “Son of God” reveals that he was produced by the Father and is, therefore, his firstborn and only-begotten Son. Jesus himself said: “I live because of the Father.” (John 6:57) After having come into existence, the Son was used in creating everything. (John 1:1-3; Col. 1:15-17; Heb. 1:2) As firstborn Son, this one enjoyed a special intimacy with the Father. He is spoken of in Scripture as being “in the bosom position with the Father.”-John 1:18. At John 8:58, once again the King James Version has Jesus using the expression “I am” in connection with himself, saying, “Before Abraham was, I am.” But here the expression is quite different from the one used at Exodus 3:14. Jesus did not use it as a name or title but simply as a means of explaining his prehuman existence. Thus, according to the New World Translation, the more correct rendering of John 8:58 is: “Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.” Clearly, no Scriptural basis exists for the claim that Jesus is the same as Jehovah of the Hebrew Scriptures. Even the teacher’s manual previously quoted admits: “That Christ existed before His birth in Bethlehem does not in itself prove He was God (He could have existed as an angel).” In fact, this is what the Bible teaches. In his prehuman existence, Jesus was “a god,” or divine one, but not the God, the almighty God Jehovah.-John 1:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16.

[@joedaley1878]

Preexistence is just as bad. The idea that our savior had a cheater angelic ace card up his sleeve to fulfil the law or that we would be condemned by a law that only an angel could obey is disgusting. It's not fair play. It's a joke. Same as the godman lie that can't be tempted as savior.

[@2dar2]

10:40 what a moment!!!!!!! Both agree that Jesus never said, he is God

[@losttribe3001]

Kile **The issue is; what did the “historical” Jesus say about himself?** I’ve noticed your scripture cut and paste elsewhere but you seem to miss that point. For starters it’s not the “historical” Jesus speaking in the books of Revelation, Romans, Isiah, etc so there’s no need to include those. We should only be focusing on the 4 Gospels as they are supposedly the direct accounts of Jesus. Erhman argues that John was written much later and that it is in that Jesus started claiming he was God. So as a historian, he’s not convinced that the historical Jesus said such things. The other books like Mark were written much earlier and would be closer to time the historical Jesus is said to have lived...thus, they would be much higher probability of an accurate retelling of the account of Jesus. So the intellectually honest scholarship agree that the historical Jesus never claimed to be God and that it were later writers that added that in. That’s why at 10:40 Williams reluctantly agreed that Jesus never claimed to be God in the earlier written books and Aram is right in pointing that out.

[@losttribe3001]

Kile If only Erhman was as smart, learned and wise as you and didn’t rely on his “limited” knowledge.... Oh wait, he understand Ancient Greek and looks at things in an objective and academic way. So given his academic background, evidence and arguments, I’d take his word about the New Testament over some random bloke on KZbin quoting scriptures at me. I use to be a Christian, now an agnostic atheist, until I realized the scriptures have questionable beginnings and are contradictory at best; immoral and presents a god not worthy of worship at worst. Feel free to hold on to your beliefs and scriptures all you want, but it doesn’t hold up to scrutiny and regurgitating them at me means nothing. And also claim that they are “inspired” by a god or gods, but I have no reason to believe there is a god or gods to begin with. And it’s funny that you go right back to John, which was the last gospel to be written with all of its embellishments and 2 Timothy which was NOT written by Paul. Cheers. PS, I’m familiar with people like John Lennox, little Billy Craig, and many others, so no need to drag their asses into the conversation.

[@losttribe3001]

Kile Thanks for showing some theists live in fear of a god who would send his creations to hell. Not worthy of worship...

[@losttribe3001]

Kile There you go again, throwing out scriptures....does nothing for me. But since you brought it up and are such an amazing theologian; who wrote 2 Peter?

[@losttribe3001]

Kile You also use the a Book of Revelation... Revelation 1:3 ends “...for the time is at hand” KJV Revelation was written almost 2,000 years ago...is the time STILL at hand? Has the time been at hand for 2,000 years?

[@dronestar1118]

God is not the author of confusion. This is pure confusion...

[@dronestar1118]

@Melanin Warrior explain how God is born? If your is comes to this world like any other human being he is not the creator.. He was created. You say he created himself through the means of which ordinary human beings go through. We call God self sustaining yet he ate food. That's not self sustaining. He prayed. To who? Himself? And again there is not a single verse in the Bible Jesus ever ever call himself the Creator of all things. Conversely he said "the father is greater than I". Don't spin the words to make them fit. The trinity didn't exist until centuries after the departure of the Messiah yet you claim a triune God.. There are over 5000 different versions of the New Testament so please use all of them to prove that Jesus claimed godship.

[@Napoleonic_S]

@@dronestar1118 So where were those middle eastern gods when homo sapiens still lived with Neanderthals, denisovans and possibly other undiscovered hominid species hundreds of thousands of years ago way before any middle eastern civilizations started to exist? It's so bloody obvious on who created who if you understand the reality that's explainable with all kind of science.

[@lunarmodule6419]

If god created the world... Well he would have 😃

[@N1976DL]

O G the Hebrews that wrote the OT didn’t believe In the devil or hell. Those were later ideas, as a result of Hellenism.

[@jamesolivito4374]

I prayed on this matter because I know what the 10 commandments say. My prayer led me to Matthew where he asked his disciples who do you say I am ? He recieved many answers ,but it was Peter who gave him the correct answer. Matthew 16 : 15-20

[@Bartwrite]

Poor Peter Williams was definitely outclassed. He should learn to present arguments rationally.

[@thejohnmarkproject]

lol How so?

[@rahmanrais8708]

correct because Peter Williams could not able to produce facts to support his arguments and any way jesus never claim he was son of god

[@thejohnmarkproject]

​@@rahmanrais8708 Wrong. Jesus says that He is the Son of God: >>> ***John 6:32-40 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” Then they said to Him, “Lord, give us this bread always.” And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” >>> ***John 2:13-17 13 Now the Passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. And He found in the temple those who sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers doing business. When He had made a whip of cords, He drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen, and poured out the changers’ money and overturned the tables. And He said to those who sold doves, “Take these things away! Do not make My Father’s house a house of merchandise!” Then His disciples remembered that it was written, “Zeal for Your house has eaten Me up.” >>> ***Matthew 18:10 “Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven." >>> ***Matthew 18:19 “Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven." >>> ***Matthew 18:35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.” >>> ***Matthew 24:36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only." >>> ***Mark 8:37-38 "Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.” >>> ***Luke 10:21-22 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.” >>> ***Luke 22:41-43 And He was withdrawn from them about a stone’s throw, and He knelt down and prayed, saying, “Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done.” Then an angel appeared to Him from heaven, strengthening Him. >>> ***Luke 23:45-47 Then the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was torn in two. And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, “Father, ‘into Your hands I commit My spirit.’ ” Having said this, He breathed His last. >>> ***Matthew 16: When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?” So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” >>> ***Matthew 15:13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. >>> ***Matthew 12:49-50 And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.” >>> ***Matthew 11:25-27 At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him." >>> ***Matthew 10:32-33 “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven. >>> ***Matthew 7:20-22 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven." >>> ***John 8:53-56 Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Who do You make Yourself out to be?” Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God. Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.” >>> ***Matthew 28:16-20 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointed for them. When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted. And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. >>> ***Matthew 22:41-45 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?” They said to Him, “The Son of David.” He said to them, “How then does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying: ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool” ’? If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his Son?” >>> ***Mark 14:61 But He kept silent and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked Him, saying to Him, “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?” Jesus said, “I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.” >>> _________________________________________________ >>> Jesus says that He is God: >>> ​***John 8:57-58 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” >>> ***John 6:45-47 "It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life." >>> ***John 14:8-9 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father." >>> ***John 20:26-29 And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!” Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.” And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” >>> ***Revelation 21:5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.” And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. >>> ***Genesis 32:28 And He said, “Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel; for you have struggled with God and with men, and have prevailed.” >>> ***Zechariah 12:10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.

[@kevinmcdonald951]

He's a moron who lost uhh uhhh

[@The_Trident_Master]

@@rahmanrais8708 then why was he crucified

[@efootballmania]

If it's Muslim vs Christian debate, the Christians would not believe it. But this is Christian vs Christian debate and still Christians would not believe it. So " seeing is not believing " it's the HEART.

[@SmalltimR]

Bart Ehrman is no Christian

[@efootballmania]

@@SmalltimR Because someone changed the Bible that makes him no longer a Christian?

[@SmalltimR]

​@@efootballmania He is a well known and self-proclaimed apostate of Christ. That being said and while his arguments are not all wrong, it wouldn't be wise to follow such a man - dance with the devil type thing ...

[@efootballmania]

@@SmalltimR So you're saying the Bible isn't changed ?

[@georgemartin1383]

Mohammad was a pedophile warlord. Not listening to that idiot or his cult.

[@jamessheffield4173]

Exodus 3:14 “And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.” John 8:58 “Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”

[@gerardjayetileke4373]

The statement is about precedence, not identity. And "I AM" is not even a proper translation. Typical "grasping at straws" apologetics.

[@jamessheffield4173]

@@gerardjayetileke4373​ I shall take the evidence of my lying eyes over your opinion. Blessings.

[@jackfletcher1000]

Verily verily I don,t think that Jesus used Shakespearean phrases.

[@jamessheffield4173]

​@@jackfletcher1000 It was amen, amen. Blessings.

[@Ethan-jd3qt]

@@jamessheffield4173 how do they not get the statement?

[@j.almadhaji]

If humans realize that they will be asked by God about everything they say, no one will talk without certain knowledge.

[@monoth4555]

Powerful

[@aniahammoudi9569]

Indeed

[@jati9484]

PRAISED BE GOD JESUS CHRIST, WHO IS THE ONLY WAY TO KNOLEDGE OF GOD.

[@aniahammoudi9569]

@@jati9484 that's not true man, don't say things you don't know

[@jati9484]

@@aniahammoudi9569 LOL HOW DO YOU KNOW, THAT I DO NOT KNOW AND WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE TO KNOW WHAT GOD REVEALS TO WHOOM HE WANTS TO REVEAL IT, I'M TELLING YOU TRULLY THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE ALL MIGHTY GOD AND THERE IS NO OTHER WAY BUT THRU HIM AND THE HOLLY SCRIPTURE IS IN ACORDANCE WITH THIS; LOOK John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. SO YOU SEE NOT THRU YOUR PEDOPHILE PROPHET MOHAMMAD OR ANY OTHER PROPHET, NOT THRU HUMANITY, NOT THRU MAN'S HYPOCRITICAL KINDESS OR ANY OTHER WAY, BUT ONLY AND ONLY THRU JESUS CHRIST, THE ALLMIGHTY GOD AND FATHER WHO CAME DOWN TO SACRIFICE HIMSELF FOR HIS CHILDERN.

[@sikandernuruddin9214]

One thing is clear Jesus never said I am one of the triune god, god fully human and that you should/can worship me. It’s good that all of you are looking for truth - may god bless you all and guide you!

[@immanueljijib3878]

Actions speak louder than words

[@sikandernuruddin9214]

@@immanueljijib3878 Jesus did miracles with the permission of God(Heavenly Father) and said so. He also worshipped God (Heavenly Father). There is a belief that Jesus worshipped and prayed to God because he was in human form and body on earth. May we all be guided by God! The truth of the matter is over 90% of the world today believes in and reveres Jesus Christ and follows or tries to follow the law of Deuteronomy and Leviticus and majority of teachings of Jesus Christ, including Muslims!

[@anthonyhulse1248]

I and the Father are one. John 10:30 Before Abraham was I AM. John 8:58

[@sikandernuruddin9214]

@@anthonyhulse1248 John 10:30- Per the verse Jesus uses the "neuter" form of the Greek word for "one" here, right? implying that they are "unity." Rather than saying that Jesus and God are the same person? John 8:58- Per the verse the ‘am’ is not capitalized? And needless to say I would believe that Jesus existed before Abraham, and everything that if Jesus said so - needless to say, I/we are nothing before the glory of Jesus for sure! One thing to think about is that Jesus Christ was charged for claiming to be Messiah(and so the King of the Jews), and not charged for claiming to be God as in Matt 26:63. Had he claimed to be God then he will be the King of all, including the Gentiles, then Pontius Pilate would have tried for treason or something under his law himself and not talked to the Jews about the punishment that should be meted to him! Matthew 26:63 King James Version “63 But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.” Matthew 26:64 New King James Version Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Note: I am not sure if these translations are accurate though as my internet has been hacked lately, so knowing this it won’t be good for me to comment on this going forward! There is a different explanation that is supported by better evidence: the Jews picked up stones to kill Jesus because they understood he was claiming to be the Messiah. At Jesus’ trial, the High Priest asked, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ” (Matt. 26:63). First of all, we should notice that no one at the trial asked Jesus if he were God. However, if they thought he had been claiming to be God, that would have certainly been a question they would have asked but such is never recorded anywhere.

[@sikandernuruddin9214]

@@wyattscott4208 Jesus Christ endorsed Abraham, Moses and all the prophets that came before him but he did not coin the word ‘Christian’, I believe. there’s no Christian word coined until after Jesus raised to heavens and lot of things happened after he left! In Aramaic Jesus probably referred to Heavenly Father as Aalah and not Allah as in Arabic. Both languages are Semitic so similar! Islam word was coined by Mohammed for the religion of Abraham and all the prophets of the God of Abraham - Quran 5:3 “This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful” Islam means Submitting you will to the God of Abraham/Heavenly Father/Yahweh/Allah, so no different than the followers of all the prophets of the God of Abraham!

[@Knowledge.Seeker13]

Bart Ehrman was so calm and collected, while the other guy was all over the place and kind of kept stuttering.

[@yxtqwf]

Does how calm someone appears or how much they stutter matter compared to the actual points they make?

[@billyroland2758]

@@yxtqwf Yes because in this case, it indicates the trinity guy lacks confidence in the nonsense he's spouting.

[@Hashirama-up2zj]

Bart will be calm until you asked him so was the universe created or not?

[@Hashirama-up2zj]

@@billyroland2758 Bart hardly use any hard evidence He just throws questions and play with uncertainty and he is very good with it. It is normal for other guys will lack confidence talking with such an expert But will any of Bart's statement change the faith of the other guy or true Christian? no chance Much more of a nonsense is if you believe in no God (atheist) or pagan

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

He’s a very smart guy but his theory is complete nonsense he really doesn’t understand Christian theology.

[@NThTwS]

Then Jesus answered and said, while He taught in the temple, “How is it that the scribes say that the Christ is the Son of David? For David himself said by the Holy Spirit: ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.” ’ Therefore David himself calls Him ‘Lord’ ; how is He then his Son?” And the common people heard Him gladly. Mark 12:35‭-‬37 NKJV Basically Bart, that's what Jesus said about the person who will be called "the Christ". Now if Jesus is the Christ, then he is Lord. And the proof of Jesus--being the Christ is the resurrection.

[@piage84]

So the proof of Jesus being the Christ is something nobody has demonstrated to be true (resurrection). Going strong in the Christian camp

[@NThTwS]

@@piage84 well first of all, bart Erhman is the person who said: "there are good evidences for the resurrection BUT I DONT BELIEVE IT". And so to know, Erhman knows that without resurrection, there would be no "christianity" at all. Since Jesus is the Christ hence his followers were called christians.

[@sharpienate]

Everything, and I do mean everything, that supports the historicity of the Jesus-Messiah belief comes from the written claims of anonymous religious authors first recorded decades after this alleged person's life. You can't logically prove the validity of a claim by using its own existence as its own evidence. If your criteria for accepting claims is that the claim takes itself seriously, then why not also believe any other internally consistent and fervent truth claim? Why not believe the historicity of Muhammad's claims and believe he was a true prophet of Allah? After all, he made the claim, he believed it himself, and he wrote about it..so it must be true! Hell, at least Muhammad has contemporaneous, non-religious sources that verify he was most likely a real person. Jesus? Not so much.

[@NThTwS]

@@sharpienate of course not it's own validity, but the eye witnes accounts are overwhelming. You cant find any other historical person being referenced as much as Jesus, especially decades after them. You can though find centuries later from other sources, Aristotle, Socrates, Alexander the great don't have this type of material to even provide a proof of their existence. I can say that everything found that someone says he is "x" can be written by someone else, that doesn't provide neither evidence nor proof of anything. The historical accounts prove the existence of Jesus Christ, the sudden shift of most parts of known world (Mediterranean) from polytheism to monotheism within decades is also evident, there are only 2 possibilities (as the third one can be exempt from equation meaning mental issues) either all are liars, or they did see what they saw. If you'd know that you would be persecuted for your lie, if caught under roman soldiers with such fierce power during torture wouldn't you say "ok I admit the body is there"??? Has anyone ever found the body of Jesus? The tomb is empty, the roman soldiers were executed as their families for treason, Saul from prosecutor with power to execute capital punishment shifts from pharisee to christian. You can't have this type of events during any other historical timeframe. Mhmd was a scumbang paedophile, necrophiliac, mass murderer, fascist, racist, womanizer with huge psychological problems, read the book "people vs mhmd, a psychological analysis". The epistle of Paul written earlier than 64ad having the Christian creed at this formation with witnesses of the time, that anyone reading the epistle could go and ask them. And for what reason would people allow themselves to be thrown in jail, beaten etc for a knowing lie? If they would know they lie no one would do it, if they wouldn't know they lie they would, exactly as jihadist do. Sarah 33:50 of quran proves that mhmd did everything for his own benefit. Either he existed or not, the quran is the only supposed material alongside with hadith to back all my claims about his character. Why to believe in Jesus Christ? Because he can prove himself as God, he was in front of Pontius Pilate, and told him:"you have only the power that is given from above, you can do nothing to me". And whom would you follow? A person that did miracles having people following him while he didn't have a place to stay? Or a murderer, pedophile, psychologically problematic person, with sex slaves, and other disorders? Jesus has the best moral values than any person in history. Josephus, pliny the younger are historians of the era, writing about his morality. And in the end Jesus says "whosoever believes in him", you don't have to believe in him, you are not obligated it's a personal choice. And it works better than the law you live on, you must not steal if you do it you are jailed, it's not a choice its obligatory. And for that free choice you make you take the reward of it: for those who believe in him eternal life, those who don't eternal death, that's what you want that's what you get. And I don't understand why people get offended by it, maybe because you believe you are good? Are you? Haven't you lied? Haven't you stole? Haven't you cursed God (used his name in vain)? Haven't you listed for anyone? A perfect God doesn't abide with imperfection, life doesn't abide with death, freedom doesn't abide with slavery, why then God would accept any imperfect human? Would you be able to live alongside with paedophile? would you go hand in hand with a thief? Would you like to be lied to? Why should God accept humans? What is it that you would do that God wouldn't be able to do it better than you? You want a miracle? Why? Havent you read about the woman that lost all her possessions because of her health condition, and saying "if only I would touch him", or the legionnaire "you can say it and it will be done" such trust in God's power! And you are wrong!! Not "everything" there are historians of the time referring to Jesus: tacitus, josephus, thallus, pliny the younger, origen, julius africanus, which other historical person does have such authenticity? You can in the end believe that you yourself can do "everything" but the only thing you cannot do is to know what the consequences are for every action you make, otherwise knowing the outcome you'd know what your action will be. Good night.

[@NThTwS]

@TJordan14 in the mind of atheists is a belief that christianity started persecuting and murdering people from its birth, that is because their knowledge of history is less than crumb of bread.

[@puremusicdaz]

son of man, son of God > 100 times. God, the Creator, YHVH, the Father = 0 times. was Jesus being coy or lying, or have you been misled?

[@emolasker]

Before Abraham was I am. Gospel of John.

[@emolasker]

@Tom Bladecki the longer explanation the less reliable message. In other words Before Abraham was I am the man? For such a sentence the crowds wanted him to Stone to death? Are you serious? You must have Polish origin and I think I know Well which part of Poles. I understand that you go this way. Anyway, Keep your belief or non-belief. I do not think that the future of mankind relies on belief when deeds are Bad. And that is the message Jesus gave, no matter which confession we are, if we do harm each other, no belief will help.

[@fleppie75]

Revelation 1:17-19 "When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. But He placed His right hand on me and said, “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last, 18the Living One. I was dead, and behold, now I am alive forever and ever! And I hold the keys of Death and of Hades. 19Therefore write down the things you have seen, and the things that are, and the things that will happen after this.…" Here we have Jesus saying I am the First and the Last (Title of God throughout the whole old Testament) and then " I was dead, and behold, now I am alive forever and ever" That clearly is Jesus, so this verse clearly states that God=Jesus.

[@first_last2740]

Tom Bladecki yes as Isaiah told us God would come to us as a baby born, he mighty God “el gibbor” only used for God in the OT. As the brother stated above, read Isaiah 44:6 and compare to Revelation 1:8, 1:17-18, 22:13, 22:16. Jesus claimed to be the first and the last, who is said to also be the Alpha and Omega, who is said to be the ALMIGHTY in revelation 1:8, earliest manuscripts say “Lord God” and I don’t even use those I use the KJV which says “Almighty”, but if you want “God” it’s right there in revelation 1:8, see ESV for example. There is no way around this, Jesus is God but He is not the Father but one WITH the Father and the Spirit.

[@first_last2740]

@Tom Bladecki Did you read the verses stupid or are you only hurling insults because you got owned?

[@Allothersweretakenn]

8:39 In the Old Testament, instances of individuals performing miracles or acts of healing are often associated with prophets or figures chosen by God. Here are a few examples: 1. **Elijah Raises the Widow's Son:** - **Reference:** 1 Kings 17:17-24 (NIV) - **Summary:** The prophet Elijah brings a widow's deceased son back to life through prayer and God's intervention. 2. **Elisha and Naaman's Healing:** - **Reference:** 2 Kings 5:1-14 (NIV) - **Summary:** Elisha instructs Naaman, a commander with leprosy, to bathe in the Jordan River seven times, resulting in his healing. 3. **Elisha Raises the Shunammite Woman's Son:** - **Reference:** 2 Kings 4:18-37 (NIV) - **Summary:** Elisha brings the dead son of a Shunammite woman back to life through prayer and God's intervention. 4. **Healing of Hezekiah:** - **Reference:** 2 Kings 20:1-11 (NIV) - **Summary:** The prophet Isaiah informs King Hezekiah that he will die, but Hezekiah prays to God, and his life is extended by 15 years. 5. **Moses and the Bronze Snake:** - **Reference:** Numbers 21:4-9 (NIV) - **Summary:** When the Israelites are bitten by snakes, God instructs Moses to make a bronze snake on a pole, and those who look at it are healed. It's important to note that the concept of faith healers or disciples as seen in the New Testament, particularly in the ministry of Jesus and his followers, is not as prevalent in the Old Testament. Miraculous events are often associated with prophets or individuals directly chosen by God.

[@billyroland2758]

When Jesus walked up to his disciples and on the water he's said, Mark 6:50."because they all saw him and were terrified. Immediately he spoke to them and said, “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.” New International Version Some translations say, " They were all terrified when they saw him. But Jesus spoke to them at once. “Don’t be afraid,” he said. “Take courage! I am here!" New Living Translation He's not saying I'm God Almighty in Mark 6:50. He's just reassuring his disciples. Basically saying, it's me Jesus' Absolutely nothing to do with a claim to be God.

[@heresyify]

He had the view he considered Jesus to be divine, John did just what you are describing.

[@miracleOfLights]

There was a large movement of people from that time period that believed he was God because of the great miracles He performed. It's clear from antiquity He did things no one had ever seen. Jewish leaders wanted to kill Him because so many thought He was God, they were convinced. He didn't need to say it even though He did in other verses implicitly. If we take the microscope back from each individual verse and look at the 100 years after He died and hundreds of years after that, its clear, people believed Him to be God for MANY good reasons....

[@billyroland2758]

@@miracleOfLights Look at John 12:9 - 11. 'Meanwhile a large crowd of Jews found out that Jesus was there and came, not only because of him but also to see Lazarus, whom he had raised from the dead. 10 So the chief priests made plans to kill Lazarus as well, 11 for on account of him many of the Jews were going over to Jesus and believing in him." NIV They were 'believing in him..' Not as God, but as the Messiah. As the context clearly shows. I agree he performed great miracles. But miracles were a sign from God that this man had his full support and blessings. In the work he was doing. The cheif priests were interested in killing two men whom they saw as a threat to their power. No first century Jewish people would ever think a man was God. The trinity is a much later development.

[@ArthurAgamenon_]

@@billyroland2758 dude, you are very oblivious to biblical theology, the biblical text and the greek manuscripts. basically the entire New Testament from the oldest manuscripts, directly and indirectly, poetically, theologically and literally, points out that Jesus is God. Just undertanding the basics of Jesus teachings, you will know that all the basis of what he said points to him.

[@billyroland2758]

@@ArthurAgamenon_ In your comment. You didn't supply any Biblical references. It's as if you're suggesting, I should accept what you say, because you say so. You presented not one fact to support your conclusions. Now here's something for you to think about. Read Luke 18: 18,19. Who was Jesus contrasting himself with at Luke 18 :19? I would be most grateful if you would answer the question.

[@MM-bd3ns]

Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles [Isaiah 42:1], Let the wilderness and its towns raise their voices; let the settlements where Kedar lives rejoice. Let the people of Sela sing for joy; let them shout from the mountaintops.[Isaiah 42:11] Where is Sela located.. anyone can help?

[@lolok7999]

Medina

[@Mercyloveforall]

John 17:3 ?

[@sneezystudios5856]

It's Es-Sela or Petra in Jordan.

[@lolok7999]

SneezyStudios it’s not Bcos kedar lived in Arabia

[@sneezystudios5856]

@@lolok7999 Where Kedar lived is the Syriac Arabian desert, too north for Medina. It's near Jericho

[@robhpll]

Matthew 2:8 clearly Jesus is referring to himself as the son of man

[@ronm.9219]

*Mark 14,61-64* 61 But he remained silent and made no answer. Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?” 62 And Jesus said, “I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.” 63 And the high priest tore his garments and said, “What further witnesses do we need? 64 You have heard his blasphemy. What is your decision?” And they all condemned him as deserving death. *Daniel 7,13-14* 13 "I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him. 14 And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.

[@mustaphatouray3540]

Meaning God send him and gave him the guide lines that if you Follow them , then you are going straight to Heaven . He was not meaning he is God but what he's doing if you praktisch it then you are among to the children of Heaven. If Jesus was God he'll clearify it i'm God and i come for myself becuz i have been sending Prophets to you but you never listen now i come for myself. If Jesus is God and you kill God now who's running the world as far as God die. Which Jesus is the topic ❓ (1) the white Jesus (2) the real Jesus We've no white God dont teach me anything wrong from the white man. Or which bible are you coting ❓ The Slave bible or John or Paul or Martin or the List goes. This was a brainwashing people but real thats what we believe and in the real bible there's no thrinity, no human being is God. God is God and man is man. But before you white race came all the Prophet where Black it doesnt matter how you defind Black. In your mind we know that there's only two race and if you are not white then you are Black. Opposite of white straight to way you said Black.

[@ronm.9219]

@@mustaphatouray3540 Get rid of your racism and read the Bible with an open heart...

[@muh.qatham9687]

Robert Petitt also quran ch.19 verse 1 says Christ is my God.

[@innocentmusa7660]

@@muh.qatham9687 Maybe you have a problem with reading Qur'an 19:1 says : "Kaf Ha Ya A'yn S'ad": Where here doe's it claim that Jesus is God! Name your sources then! You follow a blind man made religion based on deceit and deception. You surely are as the Qur'an states: "It is He ( GOD ) who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding."

[@gabormuller9850]

You can never mention "I and the father are one" without the second statement "The father is greater than me". What is being discribed is the relation of the part to the whole, as a twig could say: the tree and I are one and the tree is bigger than me. Or as the dream-self could say: I and the creator of the dream are one, but the waking consciousness is greater than me. If the world is a divine dream in god, Jesus was a lucid dreamer.

[@matthewkopp2391]

That is the deeper philosophical discourse in the Bible, and Greek philosophy, but many don’t understand that. Parmenides held that the multiplicity of existing things, their changing forms and motion, are an appearance of a single eternal reality (“Being”), giving rise to the Parmenidean principle that “all is one.” From this concept of Being, he went on to say that all claims of change or of non-Being are illogical. Parmenides was influential of Plato, Heraclitus, and others who directly informed early Christology. I am not saying that Parmenides was the only argument considered in Christianity, but I am saying all the discourse of the nature of Jesus in early Christianity was a question of ontological philosophy which was all over the ancient world. Eventually one spliced together version became orthodoxy. But the problem with modern people, is they tend not to understand what ontological philosophy was and how it was discussed. Nor what „faith“ was. Faith was a conclusion of a particular ontology particular understanding of „being“.

[@damianperez3649]

GOD is beyond our understanding of humility because of the pride made manifest in the world; GOD isnt going to claim to be almighty when HE’s flesh; “GOD is a spirit”- John 4:24; “the body without the spirit is dead” - James 2:26; taking these scriptures into consideration, what good is the body of CHRIST (the promised vessel) without the Holy SPIRIT?

[@OrthodoxCretan]

But we are also one with the father which is no different than what he said. How dare you say Jesus was a “lucid dreamer”! That’s horrible!

[@aasifmahgoub364]

On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers'" (Matthew 7:21-23

[@eengineer1able]

You have a quote huh, nice. So you have a book you like, and it says something....

[@RodMartinJr]

@@eengineer1able And you have an empty quip, containing great fury, signifying nothing. Whoop-ti-doo!

[@RodMartinJr]

Aasif, good quote, and very appropriate on this discussion. Those who cling to literal interpretations are missing everything, just as did the Pharisees in Christ's day. The Modern Pharisees are satisfied with their shallow interpretation and blithely lead their flock over the cliff of oblivion.

[@eengineer1able]

@@RodMartinJr Here's the meaning: Christians quote the Bible and are so used to that being a normal thing, that they don't understand the strangeness of the gesture. It's not merely a quote as one might make to add color to a reply (as you just did with Shakespeare), but rather quoted like a proverb, yet even more than that. It's quoted like a proclamation from god. It is the distinct province of a religious person to quote their book in a most profound and meaningful way while failing to notice how little regard they would give to a quote from a different religious book, or failing to conceive how odd it would be to expect non-religious people or those of other religions to give reverence, respect, or regard to it. You see, Rod, the quote doesn't in fact speak for itself like Shakespeare. It is either the musings of a god-man, or it's complete fiction/myth/nonsense. It's a rousing quote for the initiated, but a bizarre pronouncement for all others, producing an experience equivalent to the effect a quote from the book of Mormon would have upon you (i.e. no effect). Empathy and imagination, Rod, are what is needed and what is signified.

[@RodMartinJr]

@@eengineer1able Yet, I have quoted Buddha and Lao Tzu on numerous occasions, so your thesis is full of holes. You make assumptions for which you have scant evidence. And Shakespeare, his allusions to the Bible are numerous and without knowledge of the source, his statements through his plays don't have nearly the meaning. For a significant percentage of the planet, a Bible quotation does speak for itself. Imagination is a good thing, if it is not blocked by *blind certainty.* Me? I have studied numerous religions, in depth, and have come to understand Buddhist paramitas and how they can apply to Genesis 1 and 2. I have even studied the reviled Scientology and gained my greatest spiritual breakthroughs from it. You see, I always question my own knowledge. Don't get "stuck" in your own. You might miss something.

[@michaelmuiruri3623]

When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the SON OF MAN is?” 14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not REVEALED to you by FLESH and BLOOD, but by my Father in heaven

[@Mrch33ky]

they said he said

[@TH3-ON3]

Amen to that, God has sons by the tons in the old testament, Adam is THE SON OF GOD in the old testament. Moses is called GOD by God himself.

[@salman13]

Son if we interpret it through expressions from jewish belief at the time means prophet.

[@Anonymous-ik5fh]

Scroptures are so clear.2corinthians 4 :4.sayan blinds the minds.....

[@Anonymous-ik5fh]

@@TH3-ON3 you reading the wrong bible

[@realt1984]

In the bible Jesus never claimed to be God but a righteous man just like sons of God like all the prophets came before Jesus which means a righteous man who follows the commandment of God.

[@portiamorray3825]

Jesus claim to be God in the Bible.

[@realt1984]

@@nothx512 jesus said I have not come but to fulfil the laws of the prophets but how can a God die on a cross? What was the salvation of people who came before jesus was born? I want you to think logic and read the bibile in full context.

[@alhassangangu4357]

Portia Morray then he was crucified as human being or as God?

[@alhassangangu4357]

Real T in bible, people don’t use their God given logic

[@portiamorray3825]

@@alhassangangu4357 Isn't it written in the Bible that Jesus rose up on the third day?Died as a human to confirmed He is God, He rose up from the dead. Even in surah 19:33,Jesus mentioned the day He was born, the day He will die ,and the day He shall be raised alive. Some Muslims don't read the their Islamic books.

[@neveenelnagdy4383]

Me as Muslim I love Juses so much and Mary May peace be upon them and I love the chapter of Mary in Quran it’s beautiful and beautiful how Jesus spoke when he was still infant to defend his mum ❤️

[@neveenelnagdy4383]

We believe in Jesus as the messiah and a great prophet may peace be upon him ❤️

[@warakahbinnauval1016]

Can you show us the Injil given to Isa Almasih when Isa was still infant? Where is the Injil now? What is the context of the Injil? I am doubt the teaching of Quran is historically correct. As Bart Erhman said, he does not want to waste his valuable life by scrutinizing Quran. Quran is ahistorical, cannot be verified, fabricated.

[@strivehard7244]

@@warakahbinnauval1016 The Injil is already lost and you cannot find the original because it was only sent to a particular group of people for a period of time but the story was revealed to Prophet Muhammad ﷺ in the Qur'an and this is the Last and Final testament protected by God and it will remain pure uncorrupted until the end of time. Easà (Jesus) pbuh of course was a man now the story was mentioned in the Qur'an to let us know what really happened to him and to his mother from the wrong accusations made by some group of people telling that Maryam was a prostitute and calling Jesus pbuh a bastard a udho billa may Allah protect them as Muslim we love them and respect them. I invite you to study the Qur'an and make your own investigation about it ask questions from the true scholars of Islam and i promise you that this is the truth. I am a former Catholic embraced Islam 13 years ago.

[@warakahbinnauval1016]

ARE YOU IDIOT, WHY DO I HAVE TO ASK A MUSLIM SCHOLAR ABOUT THIS? I CAN LEARN IT BY MY SELF. WE CAN OPEN QURAN BY MYSELF. THIS IS AN INTERNET ERA! NOW, READ QS MARYAM 29-30. READ! READ CAREFULLY! THE “KITAB” (INJIL) WAS GIVEN TO THE BABY. THE KITAB (BOOK) WAS GIVEN TO THE BABY.! READ IT AGAIN. THE BOOK (KITAB) WAS GIVEN TO THE SPEAKING BABY. NOW, WHERE IS THE BOOK (INJIL)? DO YOU BELIEVE A BABY WAS GIVEN A BOOK (INJIL)? YOU WERE A CATHOLIC? STUPID CATHOLIC YES.

[@warakahbinnauval1016]

JESUS IS NOT ISA ALMASIH IN QURAN. ISA ALMASIH IS NOT JESUS CHRIST IN INJIL. THEY ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. DIFFERENT PERSONS. DONT MAKE PEOPLE STUPID!

[@santonigeek]

Abraham and ellijah raising the dead is they god? nope!

[@freddytorres4573]

If u was God in human form would u ever ever ever sin? i mean atleast One sin?..which is humanly impossible to do..well, who is the only Person to never sin, Jesus duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[@warrickdforrest2849]

@@freddytorres4573 a child or a baby never do a sin.. but acording to christians believe every baby born with sins.. and if they die before baptized they will go to hell.. a sinless baby go to hell?? the one who said this just said God is unjust to all the baby who die whatever the cause..

[@ramsaval]

Raising the dead wasn't mentioned as one of the signs of being God

[@TorahisLifeandLight]

they are ignorant of the judgment coming upon them. Worshiping Jesus is "idolatry", people will perish if they don't repent. The Bible condemns Idolatry. Revelation 22: 15 "Outside are the dogs, ( gentiles) the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." If Jesus was the resurrection why he didn't resurrect himself? Acts 5: 30

[@AdnanYudi]

2 kings 13:21 And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulcher of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.

[@legalAlien15]

".....they aren't God. THey EMPOWERED by God" Bart Ehrman. yup just like Jesus John 5:30 "By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but HIM who SENT me" Jesus just a prophet which been given miracles by the One who sent him

[@lilyoyo77]

@Kûrñèllï Ãñkîth Jesus spoke Aramaic and God in Aramaic is Allaha, who in the hell is jehova 😂

[@lilyoyo77]

@Jancy Vargheese What's jehova in arabic? Maybe i would recongnize it.

[@mohdlubiskhan7713]

No gods only Allah. Gods .. a noun in plural form. Allah .. Asma or name Which cannot be defined . Beyond our logic . We only witness Allah infinite attributes in Allah creations.

[@Lightuponlight99]

I would like to read the Gospel Of Jesus. Do you have it?

[@vijaykumaruba]

Luke Chapter 4: 17 And the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written, 18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, 19 to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor.” 20 And he rolled up the scroll and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on him. 21 And he began to say to them, “Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing. This is Jesus's gospel. That He is the Messiah that He is the savior

[@abhmd4481]

@Irish Lad nowhere

[@abhmd4481]

@@vijaykumaruba it's not his damn gospel, when was it written anyway?

[@vijaykumaruba]

@@abhmd4481 do you really know what you are asking. can you elaborate what you are asking. any ignorant person can question any proven truth the same way. So that our comments here can lead to truth, please elaborate your question. what is it that you want to know?

[@vijaykumaruba]

@ಸಂತೋಷ್ ಕುಮಾರ್ Dear Santosh, I assume that you are honestly looking for answers and I would want to understand your question better. can you please elaborate about the lying part you mentioned at the end. I need to know what lie do you see, to respond you. If you are saying why Jesus said those words on cross(Matt 27:46/ Mark 15:34) when he said Father always listens to him in John 11:41. Hear me: I see Gods plan unfold for us and Jesus is honest to the solution Him, Father and Holy Spirit came up with, for us. Hear me and give some thought to it. I see that either one thing should happen to and for us to join God in heaven: 1. we need to be sinless and righteous as God is Good and Righteous, this is not happening as all of us are drenched in evil and darkness( Proud, hateful/unforgiving fellow brothers, lying and desires reaching the bottom of hell) Not one human is sinfree. 2. Or we make an attempt to reach God in our current condition i.e. the condition we are in as explained above. in our condition we should be extinguished, like the darkness is driven out in presence of light. But God is Love. He walked an extra mile towards us. I.e. Jesus as son of man. Though he is almighty and everlasting, he humbled himself to the fathers will. He came to us in our form that we can reach him with our sin. If we believe him and commit ourselves to him, we live as he preached us to do. And the darkness inside us will be washed away with his death and resurrection. we fear no death as we always live with him. we live to serve him, we serve him by treating fellow men like ourselves. Now since Jesus decided to come to us and lay down his life, he did it in full honesty(obviously as he is God and he is Good and all honesty came from him). His flesh and pain is as real as you would. Our God cried out in pain bore the excruciating pain and death for our sins so we can reach him once forever in his resurrection. Psalms 22, its cry of David and some of these words are used by Jesus on Cross. The Psalm is David's Cry to God in the first few verses and if you continue to read you could see David says God does always answer as he has been doing to since Abraham and praise worships and thank God towards the end of the chapter. This is a very special Psalm in that David in his suffering was able to prophecy the Suffering of Christ. I would like to include you in my prayers. Trust God he always takes care of his sheep and his sheep will hear him.

[@playthislick]

REVELATION: The phrase “I am” has been totally misunderstood!! Here’s why: trinitarians claim that Jesus is God but not Yahweh, the Father. Yet read very carefully Exodus chapter 3 and you will see VERY CLEARLY that it is Yahweh (Jehovah/LORD) that is speaking to Moses and not Jesus. Furthermore, Jesus had not been identified yet. Also, saying “I am” is grammatically correct. What was he suppose to say, “I is”??

[@davidfigueroa6351]

Apologetics will say anything for Jesus. They're godlawyers speaking for god and totally ignore historical evidence presented by scholars like Ehrman.

[@kennethgee2004]

You say that Bart Ehrman has provided historical evidence that Jesus never claimed to be God. Please prove it. I see Matthew 7:22-23. Jesus is saying me and is judging who is lost and who is saved. Only God has the right to judge who is saved and who is lost, so Jesus is claiming to be God.

[@neilnelmar8007]

@@kennethgee2004 is the gospel of Mathew a accurate recording of what Jesus did or said?

[@kennethgee2004]

@@neilnelmar8007 Yes, from the perspective of Matthew. Matthew was writing to a specific audience with the knowledge of what Jesus said and provided the key points Matthew wanted to emphasize. The other gospels have different audiences and different key points all said by Jesus.

[@fullstackup]

If you see it this way. Stop looking.

[@davidfigueroa6351]

@@fullstackup how, when it's in your face all the time? Apologetics need to embrace reality and stop looking for answers in ancient, outdated religious superstition. We're in modern technological age. Welcome.

[@JGAbstract]

This Williams j guy has an uncomfortable look to him like he's trying to defend an ideology rather than just look at everything objectively.

[@jenscoconuts]

..... If two grown up people discuss such a load of bullshit, then it's getting automatically uncomfortable

[@jackjill3205]

@@jenscoconuts Bart is exposing Williams j guy BS

[@SmalltimR]

People tend to get very emotional discussions such as these - my take on this, is that the guy was having a tough time coping with the nature of the topics

[@busterbiloxi3833]

He looks tense and nervous, like a piece of shit.

[@SmalltimR]

@@busterbiloxi3833 Just out of curiosity, how does one conclude when fecal matter is; tense and /or nervous exactly?

[@ZubairKhan-vs8fe]

Im worried about the guy who is stuttering. He doesn't come across as too confident

[@rajababy2009]

all Christians shattered when a well knowledgeable person sit at front of them

[@MatthewOfNineveh]

Yes, because everyone knows that an argument's legitimacy is based on how confidently it was delivered.

[@justateacher7527]

@@rajababy2009 perfectly said!!!

[@soldierofChrist1972]

Are you going to use someone's stuttering as a measure of credibility? Lol, then you must reject Ehrman, because he stutters way too often. Your manner of speaking ability has nothing to do with your credibility or knowledge of the subject.

[@DandamanV]

We are so lucky to have such excellent conversations distributed for free. Premier Christian and unbelievable has been such an excellent thing for me to stumble upon this year, and I have grown so much by listening to these programs. Thank you Justin and team!

[@mattr.1887]

Former Christian here but I gotta hand it to Justin. He seems VERY balanced as a host/moderator. Unafraid to question/challenge both sides, and then step back and let them give a full answer. We need more folks like that.

[@samuelisner4710]

“But he remained silent and made no answer. Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?" And Jesus said, "I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven." And the high priest tore his garments and said, "What further witnesses do we need? You have heard his blasphemy. What is your decision?" And they all condemned him as deserving death.” ‭‭Mark‬ ‭14:61-64‬ ‭ESV‬‬ In Mark, the earliest Gospel, Jesus claims to be God by saying “I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven” that is a reference to Daniel 7:13-14 “I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him.And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.” So indeed Jesus did claim to be God in Mark. Mark is very subtle because he had to be, if you study Mark you’ll find it’s way deeper than even many christians believe it to be and totally in line with every other account. Not an empty promise above I promise haha.

[@smalltimer4370]

Is it really that hard to actually read the Bible? 𝚍𝚘 𝚢𝚘𝚞 𝚜𝚊𝚢 𝚘𝚏 𝚑𝚒𝚖 𝚠𝚑𝚘𝚖 𝚝𝚑𝚎 𝙵𝚊𝚝𝚑𝚎𝚛 𝚜𝚊𝚗𝚌𝚝𝚒𝚏𝚒𝚎𝚍 𝚊𝚗𝚍 𝚜𝚎𝚗𝚝 𝚒𝚗𝚝𝚘 𝚝𝚑𝚎 𝚠𝚘𝚛𝚕𝚍, '𝚈𝚘𝚞 𝚋𝚕𝚊𝚜𝚙𝚑𝚎𝚖𝚎,' 𝐛𝐞𝐜𝐚𝐮𝐬𝐞 𝐈 𝐬𝐚𝐢𝐝, '𝐈 𝐚𝐦 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐒𝐨𝐧 𝐨𝐟 𝐆𝐨𝐝?' - 𝙹𝚘𝚑𝚗 𝟷0.𝟹𝟼 𝚃𝚑𝚎 𝙹𝚎𝚠𝚜 𝚊𝚗𝚜𝚠𝚎𝚛𝚎𝚍 𝚑𝚒𝚖, "𝚆𝚎 𝚑𝚊𝚟𝚎 𝚊 𝚕𝚊𝚠, 𝚊𝚗𝚍 𝚋𝚢 𝚘𝚞𝚛 𝚕𝚊𝚠 𝐡𝐞 𝐨𝐮𝐠𝐡𝐭 𝐭𝐨 𝐝𝐢𝐞, 𝐛𝐞𝐜𝐚𝐮𝐬𝐞 𝐡𝐞 𝐦𝐚𝐝𝐞 𝐡𝐢𝐦𝐬𝐞𝐥𝐟 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐒𝐨𝐧 𝐨𝐟 𝐆𝐨𝐝." - 𝙹𝚘𝚑𝚗 𝟷𝟿.𝟽 ​ 𝙽𝚘𝚠 𝚝𝚑𝚎 𝚌𝚎𝚗𝚝𝚞𝚛𝚒𝚘𝚗, 𝚊𝚗𝚍 𝚝𝚑𝚘𝚜𝚎 𝚠𝚑𝚘 𝚠𝚎𝚛𝚎 𝚠𝚒𝚝𝚑 𝚑𝚒𝚖 𝚠𝚊𝚝𝚌𝚑𝚒𝚗𝚐 𝙹𝚎𝚜𝚞𝚜, 𝐰𝐡𝐞𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐲 𝐬𝐚𝐰 𝚝𝚑𝚎 𝚎𝚊𝚛𝚝𝚑𝚚𝚞𝚊𝚔𝚎, 𝚊𝚗𝚍 𝚝𝚑𝚎 𝚝𝚑𝚒𝚗𝚐𝚜 𝚝𝚑𝚊𝚝 𝚠𝚎𝚛𝚎 𝚍𝚘𝚗𝚎, 𝚏𝚎𝚊𝚛𝚎𝚍 𝚎𝚡𝚌𝚎𝚎𝚍𝚒𝚗𝚐𝚕𝚢, 𝚜𝚊𝚢𝚒𝚗𝚐, "𝐓𝐫𝐮𝐥𝐲 𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐰𝐚𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐒𝐨𝐧 𝐨𝐟 𝐆𝐨𝐝." - 𝙼𝚊𝚝𝚝𝚑𝚎𝚠 𝟸𝟽.𝟻𝟺

[@az-fy3mp]

@@smalltimer4370 John 5:3 - 30 “I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me. 31 If I alone bear witness about myself, my testimony is not true.

[@samuelisner4710]

‭‭John‬ ‭5:32-47‬ ‭ESV “There is another who bears witness about me, and I know that the testimony that he bears about me is true. You sent to John, and he has borne witness to the truth. Not that the testimony that I receive is from man, but I say these things so that you may be saved. He was a burning and shining lamp, and you were willing to rejoice for a while in his light. But the testimony that I have is greater than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to accomplish, the very works that I am doing, bear witness about me that the Father has sent me. And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen, and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe the one whom he has sent. You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. I do not receive glory from people. But I know that you do not have the love of God within you. I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him. How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?"”‬‬ Much love friend,@az8868 If you read the rest Jesus claims that His father(God) sent him and bears witness about him.

[@az-fy3mp]

@@samuelisner4710 John 13:13 You call Me Teacher and Lord, and rightly so, because I am. 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, Matthew 23:9 And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live... "I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me; That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me.I am the LORD, and there is no other," Isaiah 45:5-6

[@smalltimer4370]

@@az-fy3mp A most excellent passage - thanks for sharing

[@Bojanglesz89]

“But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.” This parable is in Matthew, Mark and Luke and it is clear that Jesus is referring to himself as the heir/son.

[@hashmihere6379]

Obviously,, he was the heir as other prophet are called Son of God like adam, david etc... Every righteous person inherit kingdom of God.. These things are far from making him God... God is far superior then these petty things..

[@Bojanglesz89]

@@hashmihere6379 Read the whole parable. The messengers that come before the Son of the Owner of the vineyard symbolise the prophets. The Son of the Owner of the vineyard is ofcourse Jesus, the Son of God

[@Bojanglesz89]

@My name is Vegeta Big mac Im smart you’re the only clown, because what you say is a joke. Adam was made by God directly, but he is only human. Jesus was born of a virgin and He claimed to be the Son of God. As He rose from the dead I will take His word above any other!

[@Backswell]

Yes

[@IAMNOTIAMNOTIAMNOT]

Matthew 28:18 - And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

[@tambaadrieniffono6728]

The gospels don’t have to repeat the same thing every time ! Otherwise you would suspect them of plagia or collusion

[@smalltimer4370]

That is an excellent point - thx

[@princeoz17]

or consistency of one and the same message to ensure the authenticity of events and sayings. You're missing the point...

[@sergiofortuin1039]

Yeah then that would be another topic to try and falsify Jesus. Rev 1:8

[@jessenichols9317]

Yes. But, excluding his claims of divinity in a biographical account of Jesus’ life would be like writing a biography of Babe Ruth and failing to mention that he played baseball.

[@A.S2400]

There IS collusion. They are copying off eachother.

[@samleonard07]

Jesus did claim divinity in Mark, read mark 14:62 and see the reference of son of man in Daniel 7:13 🤷

[@kamj1969]

It’s sad to hear Peter trying to justify his faith irrationally. He really doesn’t have a valid argument

[@kolaxx7183]

I have the faith that Jesus was not god !

[@lukeschultz6886]

@@kolaxx7183 and you would be correct! Jesus makes mention of The Father over 100 times in the gospel of John. He makes it very clear where his authority comes from and states he is only here to glorify The Father(God). Btw love the profile pic if that is indeed joan of arc. peace be with you 🙏

[@Navii-05]

@@lukeschultz6886 Check InspiringPhilosophy´s videos about the trinity

[@ingridprior1337]

@@kolaxx7183 Revelation 5:11-14

[@IAMNOTIAMNOTIAMNOT]

. Matthew 28:18 - And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

[@donjon6244]

Short answer: no

[@fsdfmsbcxx]

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that *I am he* , ye shall die in your sins. (John 8,24)

[@thatscute8035]

@@fsdfmsbcxx doesn't MEAN anything., "BELIEVE THAT IM HE" who a MASSANGER,A GOD OR THE SON OF GOD?DO U SEE "if u don't believe that I GOD than U shall dia in UR SINS"? MORE LIKE A MASSANGER THAN A GOD.

[@fsdfmsbcxx]

@@thatscute8035 Oh, it means A LOT. There's only one in the Old Testament who called himself "I AM", and that's God. And the Jews understood very well what Jesus meant when he said: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, *I am* . (John 8,58 / KJV)

[@thatscute8035]

@@fsdfmsbcxx REALLY, how do u know that HE MEANT that he was A MASSANGER, rather than A God? He could've meant that I AM A MASSANGER. And the verse that u pulled on ME to prove me wrong it actually proves ME RIGHT than it dose U😂 "Verily, verily,I say unto U, before Abraham was, I am? Abraham was a prophet RIGHT, So why would he say that before Abraham WAS I AM?make sense RIGHT. MORE LIKE A MASSANGER THAN A GOD.

[@thatscute8035]

@AllGTG love UR ANSWERS 👌, and I will answer them to U But first U need to tell me HOW many Bibles are there.? Which one is authentic? Which one are U supporting.? How many people wrote the Bible?. Can u trust them?. Do u know them?. And why did ur god didn't stop those who where trying to kill him, while he saved other Prophets from people who wanted to kill them (I can give U examples if U want to) And do U think THE Bible has been changed overtime.? And if yes than why didn't ur god stopped them?

[@KIWINATION]

It's a scholar's job to be neutral and scrutinise and criticise every part of his/her study/research item. If one adopts bias, or researches through a single lens instead of many, then that research and it's conclusions become unreliable. Such is the work of the younger guy without the glasses.

[@magnolia8626]

Well said.

[@anastasiya256]

Everybody has some bias though… and even if we do our best, it’s not clear if we’re capable of 100% removing it. Also, if you ever try to prove some theory, you pretty much have to resort to biased thinking for the time that you’re proving it…

[@Snapchat-blackwayne100]

That’s definitely Bart he’s a liar

[@777Slater]

The bible and christianity is not something neutral you can study in a neutral way, that’s why both sides are not neutral

[@KIWINATION]

@777Slater yes it is, there is something called objective truth.

[@Belief_Before_Glory]

Jesus did say it MANY times, but let's look at sources other than the Gospel of John: Even in the Old Testament Jesus is God: "For to us a child is born. To us a son is given; and the government will be on his shoulders. His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, 👉Mighty God, Everlasting Father,👈 Prince of Peace." - Isaiah 9:6 "AND THOU, BETHLEHEM Ephrata, art a little one among the thousands of Juda: out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: 👉and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity." -Micah 5:2 Even in the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas, Jesus is God: 'Jesus said, "I'm the light that's over all. 👉I am the All. The All has come from me and unfolds toward me. Split a log; I'm there. Lift the stone, and you'll find me there."' -Gospel of Thomas, Saying 7 Yahweh Himself tells us that Jesus is God: ⚠️"I will pour on the house of David, and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication; 👉and they will look to me whom they have pierced..." -Zachariah 12:10 Who are you going to listen to, Bart Ehrman or God? If you'd like MANY more verses about Jesus being God, ask! 💜

[@aleksanderblinn4492]

Interview with Jesus, Disciples, and Saul of Tarsus a phariser wolf aka Paul self proclaimed apostle of the gentiled ◑ To Jesus: who are you ?? “I am a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God.” John 8:40 ◑ To the Disciples: who is Jesus? “Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.” Acts 2:22 ◑ To the people: who is Jesus ?? “He was a prophet who did powerful miracles, and he was a mighty teacher in the eyes of God and all the people.” Luke 24:19 ◑ To Paul: who is Jesus ?? “Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body.” Colossians 2:9 To Jesus: what do you teach ?? “‘I want you to show mercy, not offer sacrifices.’ For I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners.” “I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” Luke 5:32 ◑ To the Disciples: what did Jesus taught?? “Now repent of your sins and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped away.” Acts 3:19 ◑ To Paul: what did Jesus teach?? “Christ died for our sins” 1 Corinthians 15:3 ◑ To Jesus: to whom you were sent ?? “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.” Matthew 15:24 ◑ To the Disciples: what Jesus instructed ?? “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.” Matthew 10:6 ◑ To Paul: Why did you go to the Gentiles ?? “It has always been my ambition to preach the gospel where Christ was not known, so that I would not be building on someone else’s foundation.” Romans 15:20 ◑ to Paul: do you mean the Disciples?? “I don’t consider myself inferior in any way to these “super apostles” who teach such things. I may not be a trained speaker, but I do have knowledge. We have made this perfectly clear to you in every way.” 2 Corinthians 11:6 ◑ To Jesus: did you came to abolish the law ?? “Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. “Matt. 5:17,18 ◑ To Paul: what do you say about that?? “Jesus abolished in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations.” Eph. 2:15 “Christ is the end of the law, that every one who has faith may be justified.” Rom. 10:4 ◑ To the Disciples: Is man Justified by faith alone?? “man is justified by works and not by faith alone.” James 2:24 ◑ To Paul: what do you say about that ?? “man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.” Romans 3:28 ◑ To Paul: so you contradict the disciples of Jesus ?? “When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong.” Galatians 2:11 ◑ To Paul: so what do you say about their teachings ?? “If we or an angel from heaven preach any other Gospel to you than what we (Paul and his disciples) have preached to you let him be a curse ” Gal 1:8 ◑ To Paul: why do you say that?? “all those in Asia have turned away from me” 2 Tim. 1:15 ◑to the Disciples: did you rejected Paul?? “When he came to Jerusalem, he tried to join us, but we were all afraid of him, not believing that he really was a disciple.” Acts 9:26 result: Paul is a corrupter of Jesus' message

[@ronm.9219]

*Acts 7,59-60* 59 And they stoned Stephen, *calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.* 60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. *Psalms 31,5* Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O Lord God of truth. *Eccl. 12,7* Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and *the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.* - *John 20,28-29* 28 Thomas answered him, *“My Lord and my God!”* 29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” - *1. John 5,20* We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. - *John 1,1-3+14* 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and *the Word was God.* 2 He was in the beginning with God. *3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made* [...] *14 And the Word became flesh* and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. - *Rev. 22,6-20* 6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and *the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel* to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. [...] 12 And, behold, *I come quickly;* and *my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.* 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, *the first and the last.* [...] 16 *I Jesus have sent mine angel* to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. [...] 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely *I come quickly.* Amen. Even so, *come, Lord Jesus.* *Matthew 16,27* For *the Son of man* shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then *he shall reward every man according to his works.* *Rev. 2,18/23* 18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; *These things saith the Son of God,* who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; [...] 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that *I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.* *Jer. 17,10* I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. *Psalms 98,9* Before the Lord; for he cometh to judge the earth: with righteousness shall he judge the world, and the people with equity. *John 5,22* For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: - *Matthew 1,21* And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt *call his name Jesus:* for *he* shall save his people from their sins. (Jesus = Yeshua = *"YHWH saves")* *Titus 3,4* But after that the kindness and love of *God our Saviour* toward man appeared, *Titus 3,6* Which he shed on us abundantly through *Jesus Christ our Saviour;* *Isaiah 43,10-11* 10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that *I am he:* before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. *11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.* *John 8,24* I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that *I am he,* ye shall die in your sins. Etc...

[@angrytedtalks]

Wait, Jesus and Christ are the same? I thought Jesus was the man and Christ is the anointing (Holy Spirit). It changes the understanding of some of these translated references.

[@aleksanderblinn4492]

@@ronm.9219 1- God Doesn’t Change His Nature (Malachi 3:6) 2- GOD Almighty is Greater than Jesus. (John 14:28 ) 3- No one is "Good" including Jesus. Only GOD is" Good" (Luke 18:19) 4- Jesus said he doesn't know when the Hour will come. Only GOD Knows. (Mark 13:32) 5- Jesus said that" OUR God is One GOD (Mark 12:29 ) 6- Jesus also said "My GOD and your GOD" (John 20:17) 7- Jesus bowed his face down to the ground to GOD Almighty. (Matthew 26:39) 8- Jesus was tempted by satan for 40 days (Mat1:4), while GOD Almighty can not be tempted (Jacob 1:13) 9- Jesus said he is a man (John 8:40) 10- God is neither a man nor a son of a man (Numbers 23:19) 11- No one can see God (1 John 4:20) but people saw Jesus 12- God is the living and everlasting (Habakkuk 1:12) 13- Jesus always confessed he is just a prophet sent by God (Matthew 21:10-11) 14- God Declared Himself to be God, Jesus didn't (Ezekiel 20:20) 15- Jesus told his real mission was to preach not sacrifice Mark1:38) 16- Jesus desired Mercy not Sacrifice (Matthew 9:13) 17- Jesus refered to himself as Servant: Matthew 10:24, 24:45, 12:18 John 13:16 18- Referred to himself as Prophet: Matthew 8:20 13:16,21:11, Mark 6:15, 6;4, 9;37, Luke 7:16, 9:8, 9:19, John 13:17, 7:16, 6:14, 7:40 19- Referred tohimself as Son of Man: Matthew 5:9, 17:22, 8:20, 18:11, 26:2, Luke9:22, John 5:27 20- Referred to himself as a Slave: John 13:16, Matthew 10:24 21- Referred to himself as a Student: Matthew 10:24 22- Father is Grater than Jesus (John 14:28) How can someone be greater than God? 23- Jesus was taught by the Father (John 8:28) 24- Jesus can do nothing by himself (John 5:19, John 5:30) 25- Jesus does not even has his own doctrine (John 7:16) 26- Jesus ascend to his God (John 20:17) 27- According to Christians, Jesus died as recorded in Matthew 27:27-56 but Bible says that God is infinite Pslam 102:27-27 28- Jesus needed to Pray, Eat, Drink and Was Helped by Woman, as stated in Luke 8:1-3 but God in Bible is self-sufficient Psalm 50:12 29- The God remain the same in nature (Hebrews 1:12) 30- Jesus is the same human today, yesterday and forever (Hebrew 13:8) 31- Jesus could not saved anyone as he was even not able to save himself (Hebrews 5:1-8) 32- Jesus said he was sent to lost sheep of Israel (Matthew 15:24) 33- God can not be born and perhaps form his own creation 34- Jesus never ask people to worship him 35- Jesus did not Teach Trinity 36- God is the essence of the worship. He is the object of worship. Had Jesus been God, he would have told people to worship him. Truly, he did the exact opposite as in Matthew 15:9 37- Jesus never call his followers Christians, Paul did 38- Jesus as a servant of God (Matthew 12:18) The word "BEGOTTEN" has been removed from all new print Bibles! The word "BEGOTTEN" has been removed from all new print Bibles! Bible Pundits have replaced the word 'Crucifixion' with the word 'Ascension' and TOTALLY removed the word 'Trinity' from all New Print Bibles (By Karo93:9:19 pm on Feb 24 2010 AD) Some Bibles say Tree, and some say Cross. Peter in his letter said Tree.

[@aleksanderblinn4492]

@@ronm.9219 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, Deutoronomy 4:35 "To you it was shown that you might know that the LORD, He is God; there is no other besides Him. Deutoronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one! Deutoronomy 32:39 'See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me; It is I who put to death and give life I have wounded and it is I who heal, And there is no one who can deliver from My hand. 2 Samuel 7:22 "For this reason You are great, O Lord GOD; for there is none like You, and there is no God besides You, according to all that we have heard with our ears. 1 Chronicles 17:20 "O LORD, there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You, according to all that we have heard with our ears. Psalms 83:18 That they may know that You alone, whose name is the LORD, Are the Most High over all the earth. Psalms 86:10 For You are great and do wondrous deeds; You alone are God. Isaiah 43:10 "You are My witnesses," declares the LORD, "And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me. Isaiah 44:6 "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me. Isaiah 45:18 For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it a waste place, but formed it to be inhabited), "I am the LORD, and there is none else. Mark 12:29 Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD; 1 Corinthians 8:4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

[@ronm.9219]

@@aleksanderblinn4492 Its easy to make a long list full of misrepresented statements etc and then copy paste it. You know nobody will write 3 hours a text to expose you as the fraud you are. I will only respond to the first three Arguments. 1. Christians dont believe God changed His Nature. He added the human Nature to His divine without mixing them. We dont believe Jesus was a half-God or something like that. We believe Jesus was fully God and fully Man, He had both Natures. 2. Jesus said His disciples should ne happy if He goes back to His father, because the Father is greater than Him, and later we see, that this means, Jesus will be greater too if He goes back to the Father, He will listen to our prayers (omnipotent) and answer them (almighty). And in John 17,5 He makes it even clearer what the meaning is. He will get the glory He had with the Father, before the World began. According to John 1,1 this means being God. 3. Jesus said to a man that called Him good "why do you call Me good? No one is good but God" - asking the man in a subtile way if he knows Jesus is God. Because Jesus is good! He is sinless! He is the good shepard.

[@fasteddie389]

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." (Revelation 1 :8)

[@desimdarim6590]

Show were Jesus says worship me I am God. Show it were is it

[@fasteddie389]

@@desimdarim6590 "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; "And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. " (Philippians 2: 10-11)

[@SmalltimR]

The alpha and omega in Rev 1.8, is the God and Father of Jesus Christ. To which I would add, you would have known this, had you actually read the account - but like many people, you have put your faith in others rather than the written word of God - and so now, you get to take part in the spreading of false teachings.

[@desimdarim6590]

@@SmalltimR oké explain trinity

[@SmalltimR]

@@desimdarim6590 That's easy - the trinity is a lie

[@ccidral]

Interesting argument from Bart, but what do I make of Mathew 23:37? Which is repeated in Luke.

[@jonfromtheuk467]

Not sure what point you are making - can you spell it out?

[@EllieBanks333]

It's very strange that you see this scripture as Jesus claiming to be god. Do you not understand it? By the way, when you want to quote this scripture saying Matthew 23:35-39 is more accurate & complete.

[@IAMNOTIAMNOTIAMNOT]

Matthew 28:18 - And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

[@ccidral]

@EllieBanks333 "How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!" Jesus is referring to Israel of the old testament as "brood" and saying how many times He wanted or tried to bring Israel under His protection as one nation. This clearly implies that He is Yahweh.

[@MrArdytube]

It is interesting to hear how how squirrelly Williams is about whether mark is the first gospel..... he agrees that John is later... and most people think it is clear that Matthew and Luke used Mark... there are no instances where mark relies upon Matthew and Luke... which therefor have to be later than mark.

[@martinbeck4318]

2:26 Not true Bart, in John Jesus says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. and " My kingdom is not of this world"

[@freevpnproxy1669]

jesus had no kingdom .im sure if jesus today upon earth you wont Believe him . its just a conflict of religions on KZbin.

[@emolasker]

Born in spirit.

[@clineezwood7942]

Explain the firmament to us.

[@CJack14dt]

John was written by people who already believed Jesus was God due to local cultural beliefs of the nature of divine beings (which was different from the cultural beliefs of the localities where Mark, Mattew and Luke-Acts were written) and the Messianic Kingdom was no longer presumed to be earthly because too much time had passed since Jesus died for what he had said to be literally true. His prophecies had already been reinterpreted just like every other apocalyptic prophecy that fails to happen.

[@ronm.9219]

@@CJack14dt Or you just simply misunderstood the prophecies...

[@hughuglover6410]

In this debate - are we forgetting who the people Jesus interacted with was? - They were all Jews and knew their scriptures. I believe that for Jesus it was much more important to tell that He was the one who was spoken about in the Jewish scriptures - because that way the Jews would recognize Him, and understand who He was. Does not the old testament warn about someone who just claim to be god, but do not bear the "markers of God"? Maybe as the message of the Gospel was spread - more people came in who did not know all about this Messiah to come, therefore you had to state more clearly the message of Jesus - so that people would understand what it was all about. Realize - it is not so important to tell to your listeners that you are God, if they know all about what would prove that someone is God in an undeniable way - it would be much more powerful to demonstrate to them that you are God - through fulfilling the known pattern. As Barth Ehrman here states in the beginning, anyone can say that they are God, it does not make them God. But, if you come and fulfill all prophesies about who this one to come is, and it is understood at least by some that this will be God, at least if it is combined in the right way - then either God is a liar in the first place, or this one who fulfills everything is indeed God - demonstrated in a much more powerful way than mere saying "I am God".

[@edwordwretch3419]

Amen...u make me think how we are also to b known by not just what we say but what we do...our character, honor integrity is more important than what we simply proclaim....I babbel a lot and the Lord teach me what u r reminding me of.ty

[@gerardthomas2994]

Great answer!! Historically, there were plenty of men who claimed to be the Messiah before and even after Yeshua till this very century. I think that Yeshua just let his unique words and signs speak for themselves. His followers believed so too - and I've always thought that was the best verification of the claim. Why would the Gospel writers , the Apostles and a host of others who lived and followed Him during that time, choose to follow a path that lead to horrifying deaths for a great many, unless they were absolutely convinced about His claim. I think that's the uniqueness of Christ's claim as opposed to the others - He lets it be your personal decision . So do you decide like Prof.Bart that Yeshua was a world changer , a history maker but nothing more? or do you decide like most devout Moslems that He was a great prophet only ? Or do you decide to reject His claims like the followers of Judaism ? Or would you take Him to be what the Gospels project Him to be?

[@khojiakbarsobirov8965]

You ask this from Jews. They never waited God in form of man.

[@edwordwretch3419]

@@khojiakbarsobirov8965 read bible. Especially the prophets.....

[@hughuglover6410]

@@khojiakbarsobirov8965 How could a "prophet like Moses" not be a Jewish man? How could the one that was supposed to be born in Bethlehem not be a man? How could the Son of Man not be a man? How could the shoot from the stump of Jesse that would bear fruit not be a man? How could the Son of David not be a Jewish man?

[@JoeLackey]

What does Jesus say to Satan when Satan is tempting him? "Don't tempt the Lord your God." Pretty clear cut, no?

[@smalltimer4370]

_The tempter came and said to Him, _*_'If you are the Son of GOD,_*_ command that these stones become bread'. But He answered, 'It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of _*_GOD’s mouth'_* _Then the devil took Him into the Holy City, and set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, and said to Him, _*_'If you are the Son of GOD,_*_ throw yourself down, for it is written, _*_‘He will command his angels concerning you,’_*_ and, ‘On their hands they will bear you up, so that you don’t dash your foot against a stone'_ _Jesus said to him, 'again, it is written, _*_'You shall not test the LORD, your GOD'_* _Again, the devil took Him to an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, and said to Him, 'I will give you all of these things, if you will fall down and worship me'. Then Jesus said to him, 'Get behind me, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship _*_the LORD your GOD,_*_ and you shall serve _*_Him only'_*_ - then the devil left, and behold, angels came and served Him._ Which now raises the question, of which GOD Satan and Jesus were referring-to throughout this exchange? And moreso, who was the GOD that Jesus worshipped, preached and taught of, throughout His ministry on earth? _Don't let your heart be troubled. _*_Believe in GOD_*_ - believe also in me_ - John 14.1

[@IAMNOTIAMNOTIAMNOT]

. Matthew 28:18 - And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

[@charlestownsend9280]

So several of the authors didn't think that it was an important thing to mention that jesus was the son of god. That's totally not a weird thing to do if you are documenting the life of the son of god. So the son of god aspect was added later in the parts of the bible that were written by later authors.

[@abukhamis9329]

16. And mention in the Scripture Mary, when she withdrew from her people to an eastern location. 17. She screened herself away from them, and We sent to her Our spirit, and He appeared to her as an immaculate human. 18. She said, “I take refuge from you in the Most Merciful, should you be righteous.” 19. He said, “I am only the messenger of your Lord, to give you the gift of a pure son.” 20. She said, “How can I have a son, when no man has touched me, and I was never unchaste?” 21. He said, “Thus said your Lord, `It is easy for Me, and We will make him a sign for humanity, and a mercy from Us. It is a matter already decided.'“ 22. So she carried him, and secluded herself with him in a remote place. 23. The labor-pains came upon her, by the trunk of a palm-tree. She said, “I wish I had died before this, and been completely forgotten.” 24. Whereupon he called her from beneath her: “Do not worry; your Lord has placed a stream beneath you. 25. And shake the trunk of the palm-tree towards you, and it will drop ripe dates by you.” 26. “So eat, and drink, and be consoled. And if you see any human, say, ‘I have vowed a fast to the Most Gracious, so I will not speak to any human today.'“ 27. Then she came to her people, carrying him. They said, “O Mary, you have done something terrible. 28. O sister of Aaron, your father was not an evil man, and your mother was not a whore.” 29. So she pointed to him. They said, “How can we speak to an infant in the crib?” 30. He said, “I am the servant of God. He has given me the Scripture, and made me a prophet. 31. And has made me blessed wherever I may be; and has enjoined on me prayer and charity, so long as I live. 32. And kind to my mother, and He did not make me a disobedient rebel. 33. So Peace is upon me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the Day I get resurrected alive.” 34. That is Jesus son of Mary-the Word of truth about which they doubt. 35. It is not for God to have a child-glory be to Him. To have anything done, He says to it, “Be,” and it becomes. 36. “God is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path.” 37. But the various factions differed among themselves. So woe to those who disbelieve from the scene of a tremendous Day. 38. Listen to them and watch for them the Day they come to Us. But the wrongdoers today are completely lost. 39. And warn them of the Day of Regret, when the matter will be concluded. Yet they are heedless, and they do not believe. 40. It is We who will inherit the earth and everyone on it, and to Us they will be returned.

[@charlestownsend9280]

@@abukhamis9329 where does this come from? An earlier book or a later book? Also it still doesn't say that jesus is the son of god, just that god gave Mary a child.

[@abukhamis9329]

The word Allah (Arabic: الله‎) means "God" in the Arabic language. Muslims and Christians in the Middle East both use the word Allah for God.

[@charlestownsend9280]

@@abukhamis9329 and?

[@raimijay4352]

The terms son of God was mentioned by tons inside the bible. The son of God don't means God have a Son. It was a metaphor sentences. Adam was son of God.

[@truthseeker4490]

it's astounding how an independent scholar's view coincides with what islam teacher abt jesus(pbuh) that he was a prophet but never claim to be god

[@swissapologetics]

Who said that? Bart Ehrman dont agree with you...

[@truthseeker4490]

@@swissapologetics doesn't he advocate for the development theory?

[@truthseeker4490]

@@mateopribyl9218 in islam he is also the messiah...but where did brat ehrman said that jesus believed there is no one after him?

[@trevbarlow9719]

Erhman's views contradict Islam, as do virtually all New Testament scholars. For example, scholars believe Jesus was crucified.

[@alphahomelisting9916]

Why would god send prophets to die on the cross for our sins, god himself become human and died for us

[@Jack-ni8kd]

shout out to this impartial, unbiased interviewer

[@lllULTIMATEMASTERlll]

Jack Justin is great. I say this as an atheist.

[@hegagi839]

John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I (Jesus) said, I am the Son of God?

[@losttribe3001]

He is biased...but he does a great job of putting his biases aside while moderating. So he is a good moderator. And like others, this is coming from an atheist.

[@lllULTIMATEMASTERlll]

Huhmongus makes you feel good inside, but it’s super unrealistic.

[@lllULTIMATEMASTERlll]

Huhmongus I love dragon ball. But we all know it’s ridiculous.

[@vrvarghese6952]

What about Jesus claiming himself having authority to forgive sins, which an authority only God has? What about Jesus Christ claiming himself to be greater than temple? Lord of Sabbath? These claims are in synoptic Gospels.

[@smalltimer4370]

1. Jesus was authorized to forgive the sins, just as the Apostles were after Him. 2. Jesus is greater than the temple, as it is through His death and resurrection that we are saved 3. As with all titles, Jesus was made Lord of the Sabbath by His own GOD and Father

[@jesusisgod3612]

@@smalltimer4370 1. Isaiah 43:11 only God can pardon sin. The apostles did not have the power to pardon sin, with God. Yes they could forgive the sin of a fellow man. As we all are commanded to forgive one another. But that man and us all still need to repent to God. Only God can pardon sin. We only forgive personal sin against us. But that sin is still needing God's forgiveness. 2. How can Jesus save anyone when only God can save his people. Isaiah 43:11. If Jesus was capable of saving anyone that makes him God. 3. Lord of sabbath is not a title.

[@hugonyberg7855]

Bart Ehrman is really sharp, not sure why the other guy would want to debate him..

[@fsdfmsbcxx]

The question is not how "sharp" he is, but if he's telling the truth or telling lies. Believers who know the Lord and his word recognize him as a fraud and liar very quickly.

[@majmage]

@@fsdfmsbcxx Lying requires that someone is telling a falsehood with intent to mislead. If you can't even name one specific way he's wrong (let alone establish that he knows he's wrong and is deliberately trying to mislead people), then your "liar" accusation is simply wrong.

[@fsdfmsbcxx]

@B. S. Our faith is not founded on man-made opinions or the views of scholars (who are not even Christians), or any church council, but on God's Word, the Testimony of the Father about his Son, which the Holy Spirit confirmed through the mouth of the Apostels and all true believers. And it's the same Spirit who gave us that assurance when we come to the Gospel of our Lord and believed it with our heart. These scholars are the enemies of the cross and they are not from God, because they deny everything what God said in his word.

[@fsdfmsbcxx]

@@majmage "Lying requires that someone is telling a falsehood with intent to mislead." I agree with you. Some can just be wrong on a topic, that doesn't make them a liar, because they do it in ignorance. " If you can't even name one specific way he's wrong " Oh, I can give you several specific points. Hold on... will reply later.

[@fsdfmsbcxx]

@B. S. Christians believe the word of God and preach it instead of denying it. That's WHY they are Christians (Philippians 2,16). God was the one who set his word forever, and he NEVER gave an assignment to a human being to decide what his word is and what it's not. Our Job is to proclaim it, not to edit it. These Scholars pervert the Word of God and release one Bible Fake after another, which are all based on faulthy (made up) Manuscripts. That's why we have so many fake Bibles today, which come in the name of "better translations". They are all based on these faulthy (Alexandrian) Texts. That is what these Scholars really mean (but never say) when they're talking about the "earliest manuscripts". From Genesis 1 to Revelation 22 it's his word, and the whole religious world rages in war against it, especially Roman Catholicism, and the History proves the long war against the King James Bible, which saved so many souls and reconciled them unto God. "For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven." (Psalm 119,89 / KJV)

[@aishahnoordin7148]

Al-Quran translation - Surah Al-Ma'idah, Verse 116 - 118 (5:116) : And (remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection) "O Isa , son of Maryam! Did you say unto men, " Worship me and my mother ad two gods besides Allah" He will say, "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in yours, truly. You, only You are the knower of all that is hidden and unseen". (5:117) : "Never did I say to them ought except what You (Allah) did command me to say : " Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them while I dwelled amongst them, but when You took me up. You were the Watcher over them and You are a Witness to all things". (5:118) : "If You punish them, they are Your servants and if You forgive them, verily You only You are the Almighty, the All-Wise". (5:119) : Allah will say : "This is a Day on which the truthful will profit from the truth : Theirs are Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise) - they shall abide therein forever. Allah is pleased with them and they with Him. That is the great success". (5:120) : To Allah belongs the domination of the heavens and the earth and all that is therein, and He is able to do all things.

[@areejshams3253]

💗💗💗

[@aishahnoordin7148]

@森林雪 Have you read AlQuran? Have you analyse the content? Why count on other people's view? Check it out yourself or you dont have the intelligence to do so?

[@aishahnoordin7148]

@mishel kevorkian in which verse in the bible Jesus says about Muhammad? No wonder you follow Paul and the church. You dont even know your bible, what more of Jesus' teaching.. I think we , Muslims follow and obey Jesus or Isa PBUH , rather than you Christians.. where in the bible Jesus says he is God or about thrinity? NONE! He has to come back again to rectify the mistakes made by the Christians.... Shame on you!

[@aishahnoordin7148]

@森林雪 if you have read and understand the Quran, you will not be haywire like now and far from the path of truth.

[@TheMrpalid]

Quran is the truth

[@cnault3244]

"Did Jesus claim to be God?" Can anyone present any evidence for the story in the Bible about Jesus being resurrected?

[@smalltimer4370]

We can analyze the source and veracity of the claims

[@cnault3244]

@@smalltimer4370 "We can analyze the source and veracity of the claims" We also have to examine the nature of the claim itself. If there is no evidence of such an event as the one described in the claim, there is no reason to accept the claim. The source? The source is: - accounts written down decades after the events described\ - written by unknown writers who were not themselves witnesses to the events - we have no original documents to examine, just translations of copies of translations of copies The veracity of the claims? Since the claims are incredible & there is no evidence for events such as those described in the claims AND since we do not know who the writers are, we have no way to determine the veracity of the claims.

[@smalltimer4370]

@@cnault3244 At what point in a time line do claims become irrelevant? Similarly, how would your proposed reasoning work with other historical evaluations? What do we make of eye witnesses, and recorded accounts? Needless to say, I sense some major issues with your proposed reasoning, as it would likely conflict with the majority of the historical methods being used to map human history. Having said that, there is far more to be had when considering the ancient manuscripts that make up the Bible - though this doesn't mean these criteria will satisfy, let alone force someone to consider the facts however.

[@Mike00513]

@C Nault, I will try my best to prove it.

[@cnault3244]

@@smalltimer4370 "Similarly, how would your proposed reasoning work with other historical evaluations?" Depends what is being evaluated. There are numerous some ancient writings about Julius Caesar, Genghis Khan, and Alexander the Great. There are also ancient writings claiming Julius Caesar, Genghis Khan, and Alexander the Great were gods. Today no one doubts these individuals existed. How many people today think they were gods? "What do we make of eye witnesses, and recorded accounts?" Depends what they say. It is not unreasonable to think a guy named Jesus existed at the time of the Bible stories about him. He may have said some of the things attributed to him. He may even have bee executed by crucifixion. With no supporting evidence, with only the Bible accounts ( the Bible was a book created by a committee that decided which books to include & which to leave out) is there any reason to believe he turned water to wine, raised the dead, walked on water, and was resurrected days after his death?

[@Mike-qt7jp]

Hebrews 1:1-8 says, " God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they... But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: "Let all the angels of God worship Him." And of the angels He says: “Who makes His angels spirits And His ministers a flame of fire.” But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;" Jesus doesn't need to call Himself God, the Father does.

[@SmalltimR]

There are many issues with your proposed reasoning; 1. the original speaker in the citation of Heb 1.8-9, is not YHWH GOD, but the human Psalmist(or writer) 2. the passage in question does not say '...he says...', but rather, that this is added in translation, thus making it appear as though it is a continuation of a language pattern, that does not exist in the parent texts 3. the title of God given onto the son, was originally given to the human King(s) of Israel, seated-upon the very same throne(of YHWH), Hand who were identified as a God with GOD above them, just as is it with GOD's Messianic King That said, people go way out to left field, in trying to make the scriptures say what they want it to say, though it remains that scripture does not work in their favour at all, and that the truth will always reveal itself by way of careful examination of the text - one GOD alone, only true GOD, GOD Almighty, Supreme GOD, is the only GOD worthy if being called the GOD of Jesus Christ. Jesus' GOD has no GOD, no equal, and is the source and cause of all things known and unknown, that is why the word by which all things were made, came out of His mouth, and was sent forth...

[@Adam-n8y]

​@@SmalltimRJesus said whose son is the Christ, when he spoke in the spirit saying the lord said to my lord so no problem the psalmist saying it. These men said the gospels are clear but they chose not to beleive them. Ezekiel 1-26 shows us who God is and in revelation 1-14 we see Jesus on the throne same. Jesus tells us revelation 1-8 21 and 22 He is God the alpha and omega beginning and end first and the last isaiah 44 "6.this is the Lord says isreals king and redeemer the lord Almighty I am the first and the last apart from me there is no God. Its very clear unless you dont want to accept any of Gods word again these men said Jesus is king. John 1 tells Jesus is God hebrews 1 tells us Jesus made the heavens, Jesus tells us before the world esisted he was with the Father one God as Jesus said he and the father will make their home in us as we receive the promised Holyspirit being borm again with spirit of truth its what the deciples beleived what Jesus reveals the early church beleived now we have these men who are trying to cause confusion. Go with God not men.

[@hunterklise9337]

Ehrman fails to see a lot of sayings in the Synoptics that prove Christ’s divinity. For example in Matthew 23 “Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city,” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:34‬ ‭ Wait Jesus is sending prophets to Jerusalem? I thought only God could do that Or take Luke “And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.” ‭‭Luke‬ ‭10:18‬ ‭NKJV‬‬ Just because one author wants to highlight one area of Jesus’s life it doesn’t mean other parts didn’t happen

[@amithatbadtoyou178]

@Sami Ahmed its God speking to moses read the bible again

[@carybaker7334]

I have written a book about Jesus being God in the Bible. When you read the Bible with the thought that Jesus and God are two separate beings then it is full of contradictions, but when you read it with the knowledge that Jesus and God are one and the same then it makes perfect sense with no contradictions. Please check out my book on Amazon - “Jesus Is God, Scripture Proves It” by Cary Glenn. It’s the only book I ever wrote. It goes into depth on this topic and explains why the Bible over all other religions can be believed. It’s a good study guide you can share with your friends. Check it out. You won’t be sorry you did. Please spread this on social media…we have to get the word out. Jesus says if you believe I am who I say I am, you will die in your sins...

[@jaluepo]

Authors of the Bible didn’t make Jesus as God, it is the Church who misinterpreted the Bible by telling Jesus is God.

[@godisone578]

Islam for all Never worship a man Never worship Jesus ( the prophet) because he was a prophet only , but not God Worship only the Creator who created you God does not accept to associate partners with him Jesus Never said himself" I am God or worship me" Jesus Said "God is One, Worship the Lord your God " "The father is greater than I " "By my self I can do noting" "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.Allah stated " I'm the only God to be Worshiped, I'm One, No Trinity" Islam for all , Allah accepts only final revelation ( Islam ) "O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Ruh) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One Ilah (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All¬Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs. The Messiah will never be proud to reject to be a slave to Allah, nor the angels who are near (to Allah). And whosoever rejects His worship and is proud, then He will gather them all together unto Himself. "Quran 4:171

[@jaluepo]

Worship Allah I am Muslim, I worship only one God, throughout mankind history God had sent many messengers to tell people worship him alone. Jesus pbuh did miracles by permission of God; Moses did miracles by permission of God.

[@HABIBI5K]

Lol worship allah never worship the lord jesus christ because the father give all authority to his son jesus thats why the father said if you dont honor the son you dont honor the father all the judgment the father give to the son and jesus is pure holy your book quran not holy at all mohammed is a great sinner allah your satan has blinded you alll through mohammed its sad that u are kissing a stone lol thats worshipping a idol blindnesss blindnesss blindness we as the bible is pure holy because jesus is the word and he died for us and in 3 days ressurected wow thats powerfull thank you jesus love you my lord and my god

[@HABIBI5K]

@@jaluepo and still jesus rise from the dead because he said so and your quran is full of sin doing are bible holy holy holy

[@jaluepo]

@@HABIBI5K you’re confused about 🤷‍♂️ who God is: holy Father, holy mother, holy son, Holy Ghost, Holy Spirit , holy good luck!

[@sabirsreeneebus5466]

Jesus himself said thgat he is not God. He was acting on behalf of his FATHER.

[@michaelau5159]

Please quote book -> chapter -> verse(s) where you see Jesus said that "he is not God".

[@smalltimer4370]

@@michaelau5159 *John 10* _22It was the Feast of the Dedication at Jerusalem. 23It was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple, in Solomon's porch. 24The Jews therefore came around him and said to him, _*_"How long will you hold us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly."_*_ 25Jesus answered them, _*_"I told you, and you don't believe. The works that I do in my Father's name, these testify about me._*_ 26But you don't believe, because you are not of my sheep, as I told you. 27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28I give eternal life to them. They will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. _*_29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all._*_ No one is able to snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one." 31Therefore Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32Jesus answered them, "I have shown you many good works from my Father. For which of those works do you stone me?" 33The Jews answered him, _*_"We don't stone you for a good work, but for blasphemy: because you, being a man, make yourself God."_*_ 34Jesus answered them, "Isn't it written in your law, 'I said, you are gods?' _*_35If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture can't be broken), 36do you say of him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You blaspheme,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God?'_*_ 37If I don't do the works of my Father, don't believe me. 38But if I do them, though you don't believe me, believe the works; that you may know and believe that the Father is in me, and I in the Father." 39They sought again to seize him, and he went out of their hand._ In the above mentioned passages, the religious leaders are asking Jesus to openly admit that He was claiming to be the Messiah. What is often overlooked in this however, is that the religious leaders wanted to trap Jesus and put Him to death for blasphemy. Not for claiming to be God of course, as everyone knew full well Jesus was worshipping the same God they were and that God is no man. But moreso, for falsely claiming to be the prophesied Messiah" sent by God to save humanity. With that said, Jesus answered that He had already told them who He was, and that they did not believe Him. After which, Jesus added that He and the Father were one which prompted the religious leaders to stone Him saying that He was making Himself God. But Jesus exposed their faulty reasoning by citing the Law, stating that the human Judges of Israel were rightfully called Gods by YHWH. And that if He(as in; God) called them(the Judges of Israel) Gods, then how could He(Jesus) be guilty of blasphemy for claiming to be "... the Son of God..." Do you see what just happens there? Jesus Himself said it, how could He be guilty of making Himself God when He claimed to be "the Son of God"? In addition to this, there is another account in-where the Scribes and Pharisees asked Jesus who He was? After which Jesus answers that they would know who He was when they lifted-up the Son of man. Following this near prophecy, the Bible record reveals that those present became exceedingly afraid, saying, 'Truly this was God's Son.' And least but not last, when Jesus stood trial, the charge of blasphemy was defined for all to see; _The Jews answered him, "We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God."_ - John 19.7 PS. Jesus' being one with God is explained in John 17.20-26

[@michaelau5159]

@@smalltimer4370 again you read things into the Bible that are not there. You use John as an example of why Jesus is not GOD yet John starts with "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."

[@smalltimer4370]

@@michaelau5159 *RE:* again you read things into the Bible that are not there *A.* And what words in my previous comment were "read into the Bible" exactly? PS. John 1.1 has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Jesus denying being God on earth.

[@michaelau5159]

@@smalltimer4370 "Not for claiming to be God of course, as everyone knew full well Jesus was worshipping the same God they were and that God is no man." John 1 starts by telling us exactly who Jesus is, you can deny it all you want but Jesus being GOD is the central theme of the Gospel of John.

[@samuelwilliams6171]

Luke 6 12 One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God. Ex Christian and Muslim Alhamdulillah ☝

[@davethebrahman9870]

Interestingly, θεου at the end is a genitive; so it might be translated ‘with God’ or ‘of God’.

[@TahaAfoun]

@@davethebrahman9870 And that's why he became muslim the legend says...

[@Oliver-c5v2b]

Very bad choice, you should come back to God! I’m a Unitarian Christian. Muhammad was a false prophet there’s a lot of proof out there

[@dariuszlangrusehbyjackson6461]

He left good religion ☯️ and join organization? 🤦🏿‍♀️

[@randomasmrchannel2901]

@@davethebrahman9870 lmao, so the translation would be "... Spent the night praying of God" How does this even make sense?

[@darkpreli3054]

"Someone is making up stories" oh, the irony.

[@busterbiloxi3833]

There is no God, so fuck off.

[@NoOne-wu2cr]

@@busterbiloxi3833 islam is the truth

[@jenscoconuts]

@@NoOne-wu2cr why?

[@joeb2588]

@@NoOne-wu2cr wait, what?

[@anaarkadievna]

@@busterbiloxi3833 But Barth Ehrman is still a liar... with or without a God!

[@sh0lle]

“Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" Thenn Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." John 20:28,29 Jesus didn’t deny He was God when Thomas said that. Yes, is gospel of John, but John walked with Jesus and talked to Jesus. He was besides him all the time. Who would know better who Jesus was then John?

[@LIVERZ]

That verse doesn't prove jesus is god if you read in context from what thomas said because jesus rejects divinity somewhere else in the bible so how can he also claim it while rejecting

[@katib2953]

And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.. MATTHEW 19:17

[@sh0lle]

Jesus said to him, 'Why do you ask me about what is good? There is one alone who is good. But if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.' Matthew 19:17 Also Jesus didn' t say he wasn' t good but that there is one alone who is good. And even if your citation was right Jesus again simply asked the man why does he call him good? Didn't say he wasn't the one who is good, that is, God.

[@LIVERZ]

@@sh0lle well jesus is saying only God the father alone is good proving he isn't god. Jesus himself rejects divinity in john 10:30

[@WimbledonEngland]

John the author of the gospel was not a disciple of Jesus. He was a Greek Christian writing decades after Jesus's death, never even met Jesus.

[@snertster]

Interesting debate, and both debaters were courteous and didn't resort to name calling or rudeness. If we could only emulate this behavior generally in society how much better off we would be.

[@normancooper596]

Debate class should be compulsory in public education.

[@lwmaynard5180]

What about offspring of vipers serpents or wolves entering among you .? ?

[@billyroland2758]

@@lwmaynard5180 Your comment just proves the point. You're a prime example of why 'debate class' should be included in public education.

[@heelercs]

@@lwmaynard5180 Us: “This kind of debate is fantastic!” L W Maynard: “I’M GONNA SAY SOMETHING CRYPTIC AS IF I’M SMART GET OWNED LOLZ” Us: “🤦‍♂️”

[@grahammewburn]

Jesus says I ascend to my father and your father My God and your God John 20:17

[@blitz091]

The reason why Jesus was cryptic in revealing His identity comes down to the purpose of His earthly ministry. He waited until the Father told Him to start, He followed through being baptized by John (who anticipated that Jesus would be baptizing Him!) and He demonstrated PERFECT alignment with the Father. He did this for our sake, that we would have a model for what obedience looks like. There were outright glimpses of his Divinity (ie: The Transfiguration) and even a few times when he alluded to who He really was. There will be no questions whether or not Jesus is God when he returns, for then He will be in His Glory. Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” - John 8:48 But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, “I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!” Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.” - Matthew 26:63-64

[@danielfazlan4769]

Seriously when will Christians stop quoting the gospel of John as supposed divinity of jesus. Bart ehrman himself that the gospels where written by anonymous authors and in GREEK instead of Hebrew

[@blitz091]

@@danielfazlan4769 There are multiple Psalms that foretell of a Divine ruler coming through the Davidic line. Specifically, Jesus Himself references one in Mark (Psalm 110:1) and Paul connects Jesus to another in Hebrews (45:6-7). It’s apparent that you do not trust the New Testament but the Old Testament contains other verses that portray Messiah as a divine figure. _ “I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him. Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed.” - Daniel‬ ‭7:13-14‬ _ Who is this figure in Daniel’s vision? Figures that come on the clouds are always Divine or angelic beings. This Entity receives worship so we can safely conclude that He must be Divine. His dominion is everlasting, Christians believe this describes Jesus’s Millenial reign. This is the verse that Jesus connects Himself to in Mark 14/Matthew 26. _ “For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of His government and peace There will be no end, Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, To order it and establish it with judgment and justice From that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.” - ‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6-7‬ _ In Isaiah’s prophetic writings we see that one of the names of the Messiah figure is “Mighty God”, this Figure is attributed many magnificent names just as God in heaven is attributed many magnificent names. Note at the beginning of the verse that this would be a “Child who is born”. _ Jesus is returning, both Christians and Muslims believe this. Interestingly, even the Quran calls Jesus “Word of God” and attributes creational miracles to Him like breathing life into clay birds. I really could care less what Bart Ehrman claims, I believe the revelation that God has shown me. We will just have to wait until Jesus's return. I am 100% certain their will be no dispute of His identity at that time.

[@williamjames4031]

@@danielfazlan4769 Bart Erhman admits that Mark considers Jesus Christ divine.

[@jxcess3891]

@@danielfazlan4769 Is bart ehrman your muu-taah dad? Bart ehrman also says that Jesus is crucified. By the way, the author of the Gospel of John was Apostle John who was the son of Zebedee and Salome or Joanna. His brother was James, who was another of the Twelve Apostles. The Church Fathers identify him as John the Evangelist, John of Patmos, John the Elder and the Beloved Disciple.

[@danielfazlan4769]

@@jxcess3891 First of all Bart Ehrman admits on his website the only evidence for the crucifixion of jesus came from Jewish sources that were written decades after his "death" because the Romans did not keep a crucifixion record. But the again he argues that despite their obvious bias towards jesus they "wouldn't have invented such a thing". You see the thing is Bart ehrman is a human being and he is not prone to error he is right some things and is is wrong in others. Secondly Bart Ehrman also admits that no jew prior to Christianity ever thought that the Messiah was meant to be crucified "it's just not the way it's supposed to happen" unless of course you believe in the disciple Paul who as we all know wasn't an actual disciple of Jesus. As for an example just read up on how Matthew ( an actual disciple of Jesus) reacted to how when Paul came to Jerusalem. And when Saul had come to Jerusalem, he tried to join the disciples; but they were all afraid of him, and did not believe that he was a disciple.(Acts 9:26) KJV Edit : Spelling

[@PashtoHits28]

In our culture when somebody is elder then us like our fathers age he used to called us by son it doesnot mean we are his begotten sons. If jesus used father for God it does not mean jesus was God's begotten kid. If jesus was god's kid then where is Gods wife(Naoozo bellah). Every christian must read what jesus himself said in the bible which are in the red colors not what paul and mathew say. 1: jesus(pbuh) never said i am God or worship me. 2: i cast out devil with the spirit of God. 3: ‘I can of my own self do nothing - As I hear, I judge and my judgement is just, for I seek not my own will, but the will of my Father(God). Anyone who say not my own will but the will og God he is muslim and jesus was muslim and he will comeback to testify it. May allah show the right path to all christian.brothers and sisters ameen.

[@aureliotheredeemed7566]

anwar shamim If Jesus Christ never claimed to be God why was He nailed to a cross?

[@PashtoHits28]

@@aureliotheredeemed7566 brother jesus peace be upon him never crossified nor he died he was arise by God alive and he will come back again to.testify it. Search in youtube"was.jesus really corssified by dr zakir naik" You will understand it with the proof.thanks.

[@PC-vg8vn]

@@PashtoHits28 The crucifixion of Jesus is one of the best attested historical facts. Not only do his followers believe that, so do Jews, Romans, Greeks and secular historians. It seems only muslims do no accept that historical fact because it does not fit into their theological understanding. A shame.

[@theonionpirate1076]

Peter exhibits a shifty defensiveness very similar to Ben Shapiro.

[@jckensway2956]

Unfortunately Bart’s fellow debater is clearly not comfortable in such an environment and his case (such as it is) suffers accordingly. Having watched the full debate the major thing that I came away with was the fact - I choose not to call it an idea - that we simply can never know that anything said in the New Testament and attributed to Jesus was said by him at all. The most casual of looks at the history of Christianity and it’s various schisms and denominations over the last 2000 years demonstrates how words can be moulded and reinterpreted until they mean something quite different. To suggest that there was no such a moulding of whatever Jesus actually DID say would be highly disingenuous.

[@bumpty9830]

Running the same "believer in denial" program.

[@adharshmanikoth3381]

When you look at Christianity like that it makes sense to see christ as a prophet, and god a seperate entity, if Christians actually just accepted that i think their religion would be better

[@smalltimer4370]

Do not be fooled by false prophets and so-called Christians who worship, teach and preach a god and doctrine unlike Jesus Christ on earth. The road to salvation is narrow, and true followers of Christ are few and far in-between.

[@alexdroner4068]

Bart Ehrman all love and respect , please do more videos

[@cavemandanwilder5597]

I come from the future. He did a BUNCH more videos.

[@alexdroner4068]

@@cavemandanwilder5597 He did GREATNESS .

[@markmcintyre1360]

Why? So he can be more deceptive?

[@bradbray1737]

@@markmcintyre1360 No, so he can do more educating with facts which, obviously, is beyond your abilities....

[@user-hj4uo7py5m]

In short Jesus said " Before Abraham was ,I Am" Nothing in the Jewish Culture was of Greater claim than for one to Claim the Words of God to Moses In the O.T "I AM that I AM" Jews were literally killed if they claimed these words. Yet Jesus being God had no issue Claiming these words Even if he knew that they would literally kill him for it because what they saw was a human, but Little did they know it Was Jesus , God in the Flesh. So he had all the authority to Claim His own words .

[@user-hj4uo7py5m]

@@GHOST-r5k I guess you missed the part where it says He Resurrected! But you clearly have not done your homework on History. And every athiest that has brains such as Richard Hawkins, Sam Harris , will tell you, they have not disproven God nor have they come close to doing so. They solely based their assumptions on Theory. So be careful , don't make statements out of ignorance.

[@rockodubbz2932]

Safwaan He went to the pits of the earth to free the captives captive

[@rockodubbz2932]

Safwaan you said Jesus died. i told You He didn’t. And i used to think the same, but go read it honestly without man’s opinion. Jesus is alive now as He was before time. He’s real.

[@kernlove1986]

@@GHOST-r5k Lol. Jesus said that He lays down his life and He will pick it up again, which He did. If you even understand the concept of life from the Christian view, you'd stop. We exist regardless of a physical form. Jesus' physical form died and He raised it up again.

[@kernlove1986]

@@GHOST-r5k you definitely have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to the bible. Just leave it.

[@hussinsaid4716]

In the judgement day, Jesus will be asked by GOD, if he ever claims to be GOD. Jesus answers never ever he claims to be GOD.

[@valour6530]

he would say I don't say a thing which I don't have a right to say

[@mohameddassouli6930]

You got this from the Coran. hamdoullah.

[@hussinsaid4716]

@@mohameddassouli6930 rigt bro👌

[@theholyspiritofgodjesuschr5290]

it is true that Jesus Christ did not claim to be God, because Jesus wanted man to be able to distinguish between truth and evil.

[@theholyspiritofgodjesuschr5290]

depending on each other to find the truth

[@ammumeme5789]

Sadly, early Christian (Pauline?) misinterpretations turned Christianity into a basically polytheistic religion. Whichever way it is spun, multiple Gods in essence one is how polytheistic religions often describe their beliefs. For example, Hindus often describe their many gods as manifestations of The One. The great Hindu God Brahma is referred to as "The Creator" within the Trimurti, the triple deity of supreme divinity that includes Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva. Making Jesus God may have helped Christianity gain traction, but the price was to wholly change Jesus's message of the one, true God. The Abrahamic religions are or should be based on strict monotheism. WWJD? He would not have recognized what Christianity has become.

[@SmalltimR]

Polytheism implies the worship due to the one true GOD given onto another. Should we acknowledge the Hebrew texts, it is obvious that the title of god was bestowed onto others by the one true GOD of Israel, and who were clearly not in conflict for the worship due to GOD. With that said, it is also obvious that so-called doctrines such as the trinity do in-effect qualify the terms of polytheism, as GOD is now expressed by three separate persons, of which, proponents of the doctrine address with the use of logical contradiction with terms such as; 3 yet 1

[@lilyrosesoul0077]

Comparison to Hinduism is apt. In fact the trinity concept also existed in the pagan roman religion, the ancient eygption religion and some other ancient religions. Christians have a difficult time accepting that greek manuscripts in thw first 300 years after Prophet Jesus ( peace be upon him) did not have any trinity concepts or teachings ...and he was only viewed as a messenger of God ( son of God) and not a literal Son of God. Even though historical records show how roman pagan concepts eventually got mixed in the christian monotheism via the roman king constinopel and various councils...its a bit much for any christian to accept. Most important the idea of jesus= holy spirit = God is not explicitly said in the Bible but somehow taught by the church to its followers - this part is never pointed out to average christian lay person.

[@KnowledgeNorth]

In other words, Bart Ehrman's conception of Jesus in the early gospels is largely an islamic one

[@KnowledgeNorth]

@snow forest fair enough. thanks for the clarification.

[@prenom8793]

@snow forest where?

[@tongakhan230]

Not an Islamic one but a Jewish one. That is; to the Jews who recognized Jesus as being the Messiah. The Jews who knew the scriptures knew that God cannot come close to this earth. It would evaporate in a nuclear explosion. For God had told Moses: Exodus 33:20 But (God) added: “You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live.” This was said through an angel, naturally. Here is Peter's testimony: Matthew 16:15  He said to them: “You, though, who do you say I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Certainly not God. But God's son. An angel whom God SENT (Galatians 4:4). Hope this is helpful.

[@djgamingdragon969]

@@tongakhan230 what's even deeper is ELOHIM literally means "The Gods". The Messiah is god/angel of the Sun👉🏿Malachi4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.👉🏿Revelation 22:16 I, Yhvh, have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.👉🏿Exodus 23:20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.👈🏿one of many proofs that the Messiah is an entirely different being. YHVH which means "Lord" was GIVEN to IMANU-EL but it is El Elyon(the Most High)'s name!👇🏿Deuteronomy 32:8 When the Most High(El Elyon) divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel. 9 For the Lord(YHVH)'s portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.👇🏿Hebrews 1:1In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways,2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the NAME he has INHERITED is superior to theirs. 5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father”? Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son" 6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.” 7 In speaking of the angels he says,“He makes his angels spirits, and his servants flames of fire.” 8 But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.” 10 He also says, “In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. 11 They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. 12 You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end.” 13 To which of the angels did God ever say, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”? 14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?👇🏿John 8:12(Again YHVH spoke to them, saying, )“I am the light of the world. Whoever )follows me will not )walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

[@tongakhan230]

@@djgamingdragon969 : Among the Hebrew words that are translated “God” is ’El, probably meaning “Mighty One; Strong One.” (Ge 14:18) It is used with reference to Jehovah, to other gods, and to men. It is also used extensively in the makeup of proper names, such as Elisha (meaning “God Is Salvation”) and Michael (“Who Is Like God?”). In some places ’El appears with the definite article (ha·’El′, literally, “the God”) with reference to Jehovah, thereby distinguishing him from other gods.-Ge 46:3; 2Sa 22:31; The plural form, ’e·lim′, is used when referring to other gods, such as at Exodus 15:11 (“gods”). It is also used as the plural of majesty and excellence, as in Psalm 89:6: “Who can resemble Jehovah among the sons of God [bi·beneh′ ’E·lim′]?” That the plural form is used to denote a single individual here and in a number of other places is supported by the translation of ’E·lim′ by the singular form The·os′ in the Greek Septuagint; likewise by Deus in the Latin Vulgate. The answer is there right under the eyes of those who want to make Jesus into Almighty God.. To which of the angels.. - Hebrew 1:5,13 Can Almighty God be compared to angels? Jesus has become better than angels. Can that be said about Almighty God? How did Jesus become better than angels? He was given a PROMOTION by God after his return to heaven. Philippians 2:9 For this very reason, God EXALTED (JESUS) TO A SUPERIOR POSITION and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, IF Jesus is Almighty God and some God or Jesus himself gives Jesus a promotion, wouldn't that make Jesus GREATER than Almighty God. Is the above of help?

[@muzikalwon1]

That my friends is called bringing a knife to a gunfight. Peter Williams was drowning before he said a word.

[@masterroshi8070]

The New Testament clearly teaches that Jesus claimed to be God. The Bible also affirms the deity of Christ. This is evident in a variety of ways. First, Jesus claimed to be equal with God. He could forgive sin, something only God could do (Mark 2:5). Jesus claimed power to raise the dead (John 5:25-29). He claimed to be honored as God (John 5:18, 23) as well as to be equal with the Father (John 10:30). Second, Jesus claimed to be the great "I Am." John 8:58 states, "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.'" This "I Am" reference is made in connection with Exodus 3:14 where God revealed His name to Moses as "I Am." Jesus' statement, then, is a biblical claim for the deity of Christ. Third, Jesus claimed to be Yahweh God, the same God of Israel from the Old Testament. This included His claim to have eternal glory with the Father (John 17:5), His claim to be the first and the last (Revelation 1:17), His claim to be judge of all humanity (John 5:27), His claim to be the Good Shepherd (John 10:11), His claim to be the Bridegroom (Matthew 25:1; Isaiah 62:5), and His claim to be the light of the world (John 8:12; Psalm 27:1). Fourth, Jesus also claimed to be the Messiah God. This is evident in many of the titles attributed to Him in the Old Testament that are referred to in the New Testament. These include reference to Jesus as God (Psalm 45:6 and Hebrews 1:8), Lord (Psalm 110:1 and Matthew 22:43-44), Ancient of Days (Daniel 7:9 and Mark 14:61-64), and as Messiah (John 4:26). These references affirm the biblical deity of Christ. Fifth, Jesus accepted worship as God. Though the Old Testament commanded not to worship anyone but God alone, Jesus accepted worship on many occasions. Some of these included the healed leper who worshipped Him (Matthew 8:2), the ruler who knelt before Jesus after his son had been healed (Matthew 9:18), the Canaanite woman (Matthew 15:25), the mother of James and John (Matthew 20:20), and a demon-possessed man (Mark 5:6). The disciples even prayed to Jesus (Acts 7:59) and in His name (John 14:6; 15:7). Sixth, Jesus' followers recognized Jesus as God. They called Him God on multiple occasions (John 20:28; Colossians 2:9), referred to Jesus by other names used only of deity, such as Savior of the world (John 4:42), and prayed to or worshiped Jesus as part of the Godhead (Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). John taught He was with God in the beginning as "the word" and that "the word was God" (John 1:1). While the New Testament never makes the direct statement "Jesus is God," it is clear that He is referred to as deity in a variety of ways. Colossians 2:9confirms, "For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily." (See also Philippians 2:6). Those who claim Jesus never referred to Himself as God deny many clear statements in Scripture (such as John 14:6). The deity of Jesus is biblical. Jesus is God, the second person of the Triune Godhead, consisting of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

[@masterroshi8070]

@Streetsdisciple001 Listen to "the arabian Prophet" in KZbin. Hes an original arab and shows you all with evidence from your own islamic sources that Islam is false. Lord Jesus is GOD.

[@mohamedab9033]

@@masterroshi8070 MASTER ROSHI! We meet again! (after several months i think) What the hell are you still doing around videos that clap Christianity's cheeks around, you old pervert? Are you a masochist? Lol

[@IAMNOTIAMNOTIAMNOT]

. Matthew 28:18 - And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

[@aymam8121]

Jesus never claimed to be God but servant of God.

[@abduljaviertindick8615]

You're right, i believed Jesus said in John 17:3 😊😊😊

[@olmeckrav]

John 10:30 NKJV [30] I and My Father are one."

[@emolasker]

Servant od Father.

[@IAMNOTIAMNOTIAMNOT]

. Matthew 28:18 - And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

[@Reklaxlol]

Phil. 2:6-7

[@SeekersTavern...]

Okay, I understand it. It's pedantic and obtuse scepticism run amock. If Bart agrees that Mark portrayed Jesus as a divine being then why bother with the argument that Jesus himself never directly said he was God? The message is conveyed to the beleivers either way. Who cares whether it's done through poetry, or imagery or literal statements? Furthermore, this is just a book, there is a very strong oral tradition on top of that as well, anything not written was most likely said to those who didn't get it from the books. Expecting written accounts of literal interpretation seems like his protestant background shinning through, his argument is ridiculous. By comparison, if I tell you that there are two people that live together, go out on dates and have kids I don't need to tell you that they are in a relationship. You would have to be as thick as a German wall not to get that.

[@jackwilmoresongs]

Read the New Testament for yourself instead of waiting for someone to tell you what you should believe is in it.

[@abdulazeezatanda2371]

The new testament has proved to be wrong in many respects. I can't bank my salvation on such.

[@ronm.9219]

@@abdulazeezatanda2371 Maybe you should study the OT and the NT first before you make such statements

[@spartag9682]

AbdulAzeez Atanda I would study the Old Testament and then study the nt to make such claims. Obviously you will need help from Hebrew scholar and you will see things clearer.

[@afrimpeer1655]

Bart absolutely destroyed that dude :DDDDDDDD

[@smalltimer4370]

True, but that doesn't mean he is right - for example; Bart did not prove or disprove Jesus' divinity, whereas the NT writings demonstrate that Jesus most definitely claimed divinity outside the Gospel.

[@smalltimer4370]

@@taylorjeremy71 Everyone has an agenda - otherwise, there would be no disputes...

[@anthonycaserta89]

Bart always does a good job weather he's debating on the side of a real jesus or about the unreliability.. Im a Catholic but i watch videos about all religions

[@jati9484]

@@smalltimer4370 VERY SMART FROM YOU TO SAY THAT, THE SPIRIT OF THIS WORLD DIDENT REVEAL THAT TO YOU. PRAISED BE THE HOLLY OF hollies

[@carybaker7334]

@@smalltimer4370 I have written a book about Jesus being God in the Bible. When you read the Bible with the thought that Jesus and God are two separate beings then it is full of contradictions, but when you read it with the knowledge that Jesus and God are one and the same then it makes perfect sense with no contradictions. Please check out my book on Amazon - “Jesus Is God, Scripture Proves It” by Cary Glenn. It’s the only book I ever wrote. It goes into depth on this topic and explains why the Bible over all other religions can be believed. It’s a good study guide you can share with your friends. Check it out. You won’t be sorry you did. Please spread this on social media…we have to get the word out. Jesus says if you believe I am who I say I am, you will die in your sins.

[@cattleyaaida1809]

Christian doctrine: God didn't lose his divinity when he incarnated. The Gospel facts: - God prayed to himself - God was afraid of angel - God was mocked by devil; taken to a temple, taken to mountain - God didn't know when the Doomsday - Matthew 19:9 God was unfair and mean. God doesn't give solution for unhealthy marriage. Instead, he punish people for actions they don't commit. Ie, divorced men and women who remarry are considered live in adultery although the cause of the divorce IS NOT adultery. These facts already prove that Jesus is not God.

[@pedrosilvaferreira2562]

Damn, you trully didn't undertood or read the scriptures at all. Or you are just talking for the sake of talking. One or the other.

[@sheikshook5720]

What about John 1:1? What about the 300 prophecies of Jesus in the old testament? What about his crucifixion? Jewish leiders hated Jesus, they knew he was sent by God. Why would Jesus ever go and sacrifice himself on the cross? If he was just a man there was no point in doing so.

[@AstariahJW]

what he said is what trinity teaches , of course you cant understand it cause its confusion, trinity came 300 years after christ and not taught in bible, they only use trinity proof texts and ignore the rest of bible

[@sheikshook5720]

@@AstariahJW John 1:1 not proof enough? Haha

[@AstariahJW]

@@sheikshook5720 that does not prove trinity nor does it prove jesus is God, john 1:18 says no man has seen God, no one can see him face to face or we will die from his power exodus 33:20 But he added: “You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live. if you want to bielieve that an all powerfull and all wise God can die for you then go ahead, then we be still in our sins since God can not die bible says Jesus was made lower than angels hebrews 2:7 You made him a little lower than angels; you crowned him with glory and honor, and appointed him over the works of your hands so if jesus was a God man or God incarnate then he be higher than angels and he would not be the second adam 1 crointhians 15:22 For just as in Adam all are dying,so also in the Christ all will be made alive. Gods own law was to be equal of what was lost, perfect adam who sin, not God so to give back what was lost was to send perfect human jesus to be our ransom . reason why he could die cause he was mortal, someone who is immortal cant die romans 6:9 For we know that Christ, now that he has been raised up from the dead, dies no more; death is no longer master over him Jehovah God gave jesus eternal life for his obedience

[@2870arvin]

He is like a kid asking God to admit that He is God, but disregarding all the miracles, healings, casting out of demons, and apparent revelations that He is God but just want Him to claim that He is God. Actions speak louder than Words.

[@SmalltimR]

Everything Jesus did, was due to His own GOD and Father - of this, Jesus was very adamant Even His words were not His, let alone His actions...

[@leef_me8112]

@@SmalltimR What does John 1:1-14 mean to you?

[@SmalltimR]

@@leef_me8112 _In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made through him. Without him was not anything made that has been made. 4In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness hasn't overcome it._ _6There came a man, sent from God, whose name was John. 7He came as a witness, that he might testify about the light, that all might believe through him. 8He was not the light, but was sent that he might testify about the light._ _9The true light that enlightens everyone was coming into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world didn't recognize him. 11He came to his own, and those who were his own didn't receive him. 12But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become God's children, to those who believe in his name: 13who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God._ _14The Word became flesh, and lived among us. We saw his glory, such glory as of the one and only Son of the Father, full of grace and truth. 15John testified about him. He cried out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me, for he was before me.'" 16From his fullness we all received grace upon grace. 17For the law was given through Moses. Grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. 18No one has seen God at any time. The one and only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him._ - John 1.1-18 And in contrast with; _4For the word of Yahweh is right. All his work is done in faithfulness. 5He loves righteousness and justice. The earth is full of the loving kindness of Yahweh. 6By Yahweh's word, the heavens were made; all their army by the breath of his mouth. 7He gathers the waters of the sea together as a heap. He lays up the deeps in storehouses. 8Let all the earth fear Yahweh. Let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him. 9For he spoke, and it was done. He commanded, and it stood firm._ - Psalm 33.4-9 With that being said, the word of GOD, in verse 1 through 5, is the personification of GOD's will made manifest through the Son - GOD's word(literal) which is identified as coming from and being spoken by GOD(YHWH) - is attributed as the causal agent by which all things were made. This same word, would also be identified as GOD Himself, as a result of its works - the work(as creation) representing GOD Himself. Further resolution to this is found in verses 10 through 12, as the world is identified as being made through Him(the Word), and who would not recognize Him - setting a contrast between the worlds origin and the nature of corruption and sin, leading to a division between the world and the Word, by which it was made. Following this, the account goes-on to identify the same Word(living commandment) becoming flesh and living among us, and who would be glorified as the only begotten Son of the Father and who declared GOD to the world as the only begotten Son. Having said all that, and what stands out to me in this particular account, is just how many times the words 'only begotten Son' comes-up in the Greek text, thus outlining the nature of the relationship between the source(GOD the Father), and the Son(in subjection to said source).

[@IAMNOTIAMNOTIAMNOT]

. Matthew 28:18 - And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

[@jameshamilton5972]

It's a little baffling that Peter Williams doesn't seem to really handle Bart's objections very well. Perhaps Bart's just more used to arguing these matters in front of a camera.

[@RsZ789]

Or Bart's points are so logical and make sense that there isn't much to refute

[@burntgod7165]

Or Ehrman has the evidence and can back up what he says, Williams doesn't, and can't.

[@toddstevens9667]

@@RsZ789Actually, if you read Peter William’s books, he has a great deal of evidence for his position. And Peter’s argument was actually really good, he’s just not as smooth as Bart. And Peter’s point about the systematic presentation of Jesus’ divinity in Mark is correct. Bart is just retreading old critical ideas with little evidence.

[@datacipher]

You have to realize Bart’s stock and trade is showboating debates… that’s why one sees him to much. That’s not by itself terrible… but his act is polished and you will see he presents the same paradigm and arguments each and every time. It’s harder for a person genuinely open to debate who has to think and respond as he goes… Peter clearly is a bit of a stutterer and that doesn’t help. Both had some good give and take here. Sadly… as seen in the comments, many can’t process any of it and go buy who seemed subjectively more confident. Sadly this is always the case with debating. That’s how the masses decide - it’s all they have the capacity for.

[@adamcosper3308]

​@@dataciphernice coping strategy.

[@tonydarcy1606]

“Unbelievable” ? Yes ! The only castle around here is the Christian sandcastle which even the expert apologists can’t save from the rising sea.

[@TheMrpalid]

Well said . It’s crystal clear Jesus was not God

[@rabih1978]

@Kile that was a dream

[@plasmaballin]

Having someone do miracles doesn't mean they are God - the NT portrays the Apostles doing all sorts of miracles by the power of God, and the OT describes prophets doing the same. Thus, having stories about someone doing miracles is not evidence that the original sources of the stories believed that person to be God, and certainly not that the person who supposedly did miracles believed himself to be God.

[@raimijay4352]

U are on the right path

[@PC-vg8vn]

The only reason the apostles were able to perform miracles was because of Jesus. They were done in His name, ie in His authority. All of the Gospels portray Jesus as divine.

[@raimijay4352]

@@PC-vg8vn I believe Jesus perform miracles using the name of God in Heaven

[@PC-vg8vn]

@@raimijay4352 And yet it was in Jesus' name that the disciples performed miracles. Why? Because they knew who He was.

[@raimijay4352]

@@PC-vg8vn and jesus will say this to many of them. Matthew 7:21-23 New King James Version I Never Knew You 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

[@mattm7798]

"Before Abraham, I am"...can't get much more claiming divinity than that? Plus, 1 Corinthians, written before the gospels clearly paints Jesus as God, and summarizes the entire Christian faith in 1 Cor 15.

[@SmalltimR]

The words 'I am,' are not some magical word for GOD - sorry but that's just not how this works That said, the Greek expression translated 'I am', is not magical either, and moreso, works perfectly within the context of the statement - I existed, I was there, it was I, etc, etc. And so, this notion that Jesus declared Himself GOD on earth is nothing but hogwash, as it is obvious that the standard set by GOD was well established at the time Jesus walked the earth, and that there are no records of Jesus making use of such declarations at any point in scripture.

[@ladifmefireabdou3037]

THE God who was beaten and killed by his creation!!

[@SmalltimR]

That is quite a funny statement actually

[@abduljaviertindick8615]

😀😀😀

[@ladifmefireabdou3037]

@@pv1767 according to who ?

These scriptures are holy as per who ?

[@samsuddinsalleh1742]

What we saw somebody nailed on the cross totally. naked with flies buzzing around him. Horrible n scary.

[@vijaykumaruba]

At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will. All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” Matt 11:25-30 Jesus speaks about the Father and his Identity and role in Trinity.

[@vijaykumaruba]

@Samya.R And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; Matt 3:16

[@vijaykumaruba]

@Samya.R But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. John 14:26

[@vijaykumaruba]

@Samya.R John 1. 1 to 5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. Here Jesus is described to us as the Word, and the Holy Spirit is described in your quotations as spirit of truth. I will pray that all your questions on the holy spirit is revealed to you. I have come to know the Truth. I know it is a great blessing

[@vijaykumaruba]

@Samya.R your points only grow and shift due to your misconceived made up notion. How can anyone be in ignorance and teach truth. Read John 14: 26 again.

[@vijaykumaruba]

@Samya.R its not shifting if you got the answer for your question whether Holy Spirit is ignorant or not

[@0nlyThis]

Since everything we know about Jesus is literary, i.e., from the Church's New Testament canon, a more accurate question would be: Did the author of Mark, Matthew, Luke or John have his depiction of Jesus claim to be God? Did the disciples/apostles of Acts claim that Jesus was God? Did the authors of the Epistles consider their Messiah/Christ figure to be God?

[@notabene7381]

You can look up the video "a rabbi cross examines Christianity" and other related videos on that channel.

[@0nlyThis]

@@masbagus-n4u​ @Nota Bene The question remains: Where in the NT canon do any of the authors (the narrators of the Gospels/Acts or the correspondents of the Epistles) have the Jesus character of the former or the Messiah/Christ figure of the latter claim to be God? Chapter and verse . . .

[@ashishyesudas9720]

@@0nlyThis In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. John. The Word is Jesus and he is God.

[@0nlyThis]

@@ashishyesudas9720 Please note: The question is, "Did Jesus claim to be God?" not "Did any of the evangelists claim Jesus to be God?"

[@ashishyesudas9720]

@@0nlyThis you did not specify that in your question. Just mention that in your question you wrote. Thats y i quoted you John. Thanks.

[@TheRealSneakyPlayz]

So what Muslims have been saying is true that Jesus is not God but a Prophet of God.

[@SmalltimR]

On that statement, yes! Though that does not mean the Muslims are worshiping in truth as Jesus did however.

[@wajihmahmoud7932]

Great ,Whenever Jesus refers to God ,he says, 'THE ONLY TRUE GOD' which means that any other god is either false or figurative.Besides,Jesus says,'WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME GOD?For more information on

[@indiegirlrocking]

Don't worry, Bart Erhmann Will also consider Islam n Qur'an a false teaching. Qur'an is a book copying pathetically the Bible.

[@hasanpemaj7050]

@@indiegirlrocking you really mean that?!!!🤔

[@ummemaryam7283]

@@indiegirlrocking 🤣🤣🤣😂 you should speak with knowledge ... Rather than making yourself look a fool

[@indiegirlrocking]

@@ummemaryam7283 no..its on a video that u can look up in youtube that he said that.

[@ummemaryam7283]

@@indiegirlrocking you are trusting internet ?? Seriously ... ?? Unbelievable how can a learned person trust internet or someone sayings rather than reading inquiring and researching by themselves .. If they want to know the truth ....

[@mohamedrahaman9238]

Shaykh Ahmed Deedat answers all thse questions many mant times. Check him out on youtube.

[@freddytorres3609]

Jesus is God, even ur Quran confirms that

[@Ace0555]

@@freddytorres3609 Wrong, The Quran confirms he's a messenger of the Almighty. Can't you see why The Almighty had to send the final messenger. Jesus peace be upon him never claimed to be the final messenger. He knew there was a prophet coming after him.

[@freddytorres3609]

@@Ace0555 the Quran says that Jesus is the WORD and SPIRIT of God..and the Word and spirit of God is God duhhhhhhh....it went into a virgin name Mary and it became human thats why jesus could do anything godly..like raise dead people, create , all theses Godly miracles, why u think he is the only human being that never sin? Cause he is God..Now secondly, all Prophets were Jewish, ALL OF THEM..now muhammed 600 years later an Arab wannabe prophet is teaching u to hate Jews and says he is a Prophet with no miracles or prophecies to proof he is hmmmmmmm

[@freddytorres3609]

@@Ace0555 first of Jesus never said there was another prophet comming after him..secondly if u dont belive that jesus is God, then tell me something only God can do that Jesus cant

[@Ace0555]

@@freddytorres3609 you are so ill informed, it's no wonder you will suffer in confusion. You don't even know that Mohammad pbuh never taught to hate Jews. Just that alone proves how illiterate you are on the subject. I'm not going to waste time with someone who doesn't even have basic knowledge.

[@propaganmessiah388]

The following is a BIT lengthy But then I am GOD's Messenger after all.

[@KNN-u3s]

Matthew 7:22. Jesus claims to be God. One of the clearest examples in the synoptics.

[@Adam-n8y]

They do know they are choosing not to believe the gospels. Ezekiel saw God on the throne 1-26 the very same description of Jesus revelation 1-14

[@xelakram]

Peter J Williams comes over as being very naïve.

[@bumpty9830]

Being a believer is subtly different from being naive. The naive have never been exposed to the truth. Believers are in denial of the truth.

[@xelakram]

@@bumpty9830 You make a very interesting distinction there. 👍🏻

[@xelakram]

@Pivos Pivepic Competent and knowledgeable, yes, but perhaps a little naïve nevertheless.

[@xelakram]

@Pivos Pivepic I didn't listen with any bias. Disabuse yourself of that notion.

[@Ntropic]

@Pivos Pivepic yes, but whether mark interpreted jesus as divine is not the same as jesus having said that he is divine. the early church quickly adopted a number of beliefs on the divine nature of jesus, this is however not equivalent to jesus having said that he is divine, and which changes the prior distribution fopr interpretations on adoptionist and exaltation ideas within the early church. the topic of the discussion was not: did the early churchthink jesus was divine, but did jesus claim if he was divine, see the video title.

[@JonahEby]

It seems like johns gospel is simply a different tradition of different accounts of Jesus, not necessarily a later date at all.

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

Well all scholars agree based on language and events in the manuscript that it was a later addition.

[@ralphgoreham3516]

@@nickolasgaspar9660 He wrote the revelation in the year 96 CE and his Gospel and 3 letters in 98 CE.

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

@@pv1767 first of all we will need to demonstrate the existence of a god, before we can claim that he is an author of iron age anthology. Then through this anthology we can acknowledge his immoral nature. (Endorsement of slavery, human and animal sacrifice, sex and social discrimination, genocide, eternal damnation for finite crimes etc. Fortunately for us the god hypothesis is not demonstrable this we can use our secular principles to define our moral social rules

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

@@ralphgoreham3516 so..~70 years after the alleged events...so not a historical source!

[@ralphgoreham3516]

@@pv1767 All of the N.T. is non contradictory and revealed according to the axiom "Revelation is progressive". Though Jesus is divine and Godlike he is not God. You may like to scroll up to my 25 reasons why so. You can scroll up to read them under my posts to JamesAsp about 14 posts above.

[@kashifbenshamim8445]

Esa bin maryam never ever ever or would have said I am your lord worship me..... worship Allah swt alone with no partners/associations with Allah...

[@halalGPT]

Kashif Benshamim John 17:3 Now this is eternal life, that they may know you(father) the only true God and Jesus Christ to whom you sent! Only so called father is only true Gid according to Jesus!!!

[@kashifbenshamim8445]

meluhawasy Who is the one true god? No one besides Allah alone has the right to be worshipped!

[@kashifbenshamim8445]

meluhawasy Subhanallah alhumdulilah Allah 👍

[@rodhidalgo6789]

Have you read the New Testament or are you just quoting what you're taught in your madrasa?

[@rodhidalgo6789]

@ well. Perhaps you guys should read the New Testament first which is available online before just repeating what you're taught in madrasas.

[@Practical.Wisdom]

This is a brilliant conversation! Thanks for sharing.

[@joelrodriguez1232]

8:23 Dr. Williams destroys bart nicely. That reaction was epic! No quotations can be found in the Hebrew Bible or second temple period, in which you find someone healing a blind person, Walking on water, etc NONE So, his argument at this point is baseless!

[@thewallcometh1444]

So what happened at 8:23? Nothing to support your argument at all.

[@harrydavis6117]

@@thewallcometh1444 he saw something he wanted to see lol

[@thewallcometh1444]

@@harrydavis6117, exactly.

[@joelrodriguez1232]

@@thewallcometh1444 It is a very complicated argument for you to understand, Let me break it down as simple as I can. Bart relies on a view called "adoption Christology''. Mark presents Jesus as God if you follow closely the I have come's in the gospel of Mark. In Mark's Christology Jesus walks on water, heals the blind etc. Only God can do that. So, based on the Hebrew Bible, intertestamental (second temple) period, only God can do these things. That means that Mark is equating God to Jesus. The fact that Prof. Ehrman failed to quote a possible scenario in the Hebrew Bible and in second temple period, makes this point to play in favor of Prof. Williams. The I have come's in Mark and Paul's Christology contained in his citation of the creeds have moved scholars away from this view. Only Prof. Ehrman and a few others still follow this old, debunked garbage view that was respected 100 years ago but not anymore.

[@SmalltimR]

There was a prophet who raised the dead in the OT

[@ahmadghanem2414]

Where in Any bible that Jesus says I am God, worship me ?

[@samsuddinsalleh1742]

In the dream of every Christians.

[@roylopez6275]

samsuddin salleh If you accept Bartmen Saying Jesus isn’t God .. You also Need to accept that He proves Jesus Died,, Which Goes against The Quran claim that Jesus wasn’t crucified.. Don’t be hypocritical and cherry pick what u like and don’t like.. Overwhelming evidence to show Jesus was bored lived and Died by Crucifixion.. Wether he was divine .. To me he is, doesn’t change the fact that Islam gets it wrong and Isn’t reliable.

[@roylopez6275]

To all my Muslim Brothers and Sisters In Humanity.......If you accept Bartmen Saying Jesus isn’t God .. You also Need to accept that agrees with the historical records that proves Jesus Died,, Which Goes against The Quran claim that Jesus wasn’t crucified.. Don’t be hypocritical and cherry pick what u like and don’t like.. There are biblical and non biblical Overwhelming evidence to show Jesus was born... lived ...and Died by Crucifixion.. Wether he was divine or not is a matter of belief...To me he is, .....Wether he is or isn’t is irrelevant and doesn’t change the fact that Islam gets the death of Jesus wrong and Isn’t reliable.

[@first_last2740]

Ahmad Ghanem as a Muslim you just shot yourself in the head because using hose same standards, can you now show me where in the Quran Jesus says in these exact words (as you want): 1) I am the messiah 2) I am the word of allah which he cast down to Mary 3) I am a Spirit from allah Show me where Jesus said these in his words in those exact words in your Quran. I’ll be waiting... when you can’t find them, then answer me why you believe as a Muslim that Jesus is the messiah and the word of allah and a spirit from allah.

[@vengefulavenger1510]

FIRST_LAST “People of the Book! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, and attribute to Allah nothing except the truth. The *Messiah* , Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of Allah, and His *Word* that He conveyed unto Mary, and a *Spirit* from Him. So believe in Allah and in His Messengers, and do not say “three”. Give up this assertion; it would be better for you. Allah is indeed just one God. Far be it from His glory that He should have a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth. Allah is sufficient for a guardian.” (The Noble Quran 4:171)

[@mattsweisthal8178]

10:38 Ehrman: And Jesus himself never says, "I am God" in Matthew, Mark or Luke. Sure about that? Mark 14:61-63 61 But he remained silent and made no answer. Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?” 62 And Jesus said, “I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.” 63 And the high priest tore his garments and said, “What further witnesses do we need? The "I am" that Jesus says in verse 62 is not simply an affirmation to the high priest's question in verse 61. He actually says "YHWH", the formal title/name of God which is not just a name but a statement of being. Jews at the time would not say nor write the name because of it's holiness, and for Jesus to say this was to also claim the holiness of God. The proof of this contextual meaning is given by verse 63 when the high priest tears his clothes, which was a sign of grieving in ancient Jewish culture. He is grieving because he sees a man claiming to be God.

[@tahanafis4970]

That literally makes no sense at all...it an equivocal and ambigous statement of jesus....

[@davidatwilliams]

messiah is not god. It is the person that free the Israelite from the Romans.

[@freetypes9193]

Meh. Still doent had "iam a God" there

[@bolingdang6020]

@@freetypes9193 if i say "I am God", and do no miracles or signs that any God would do, would you believe me? If not, why do you need him to say he is God even when he showed it. Its like you need to say i am a human or i am a prophet in order to be human or prophet

[@geraldbrienza4474]

“Coming with the clouds” is a reference to Astro theology. God, as the sun, not son. The sun has been worshiped as god for time in memorial.