Rory Stewart On His Debates With Sam Harris

To support my work and get early access to videos, ad-free, visit / alexoc
Watch the full conversation: • There is No Existentia...
Main channel: / @cosmicskeptic

[@MultiCren]

Rory is so annoyingly slippery and deaf on this subject. Trying to get a non political answer out of him on this topic is like trying to hold water in your open hand. The only logical explanation I can think of for such a thoughtful and intelligent man to genuinely state he sees no issue, is that he’s afraid of being honest, and given how ok he was to knowingly misrepresent Sam’s opinion in public certainly calls his integrity into question for me.

[@ravenecho2410]

Lol im glad we all found the same, its the penultamate of "think before u speak", hes thinking so much about perception, hes justifying everything and saying nothing

[@FigmentHF]

“Neither of us are dairy farmers, neither of us own massive industrial dairy farms, and so we can’t possibly talk about it. We have to only ask dairy farmers about the ethical and moral considerations surrounding dairy farming”

[@tomgreene1843]

Who said that ?

[@hasush]

​@tomgreene1843 The op of the comment you replied to said that. It is a retort to a comment in the video.

[@Skapo]

Rory has a penchant for ignoring the core of the argument. Whenever he feels confident that he is right, he will double down, but when he doesn’t see himself winning he defaults to “but are we REALLY the best ones to talk about it when neither of us are life long, world renowned scholars on the matter? It’s like expects PHD level credentials for someone to prove him wrong. What an aggravating fellow.

[@Nickname006]

Exactly. Infuriating.

[@carlpeberdy9086]

Not as annoying as when some know-nothing is happy to spout crap and 'win' the argument because they can rhetorically turn it up to 11. If more people could admit that they don't know enough to have a valid opinion, the world would be a better place.

[@scipdiddly]

Nonsense! Now, I must go to second lunch with Mummy...

[@george5464]

This is like saying you need to speak the original language of the bible in order to meaningfully discuss it

[@TheBaconWizard]

You DO. Failure to do so is one of the biggest reasons that Christians get it so wrong pretty much 100% of the time.

[@Ryan-so4xl]

probably true to some capacity..

[@richardwillford2418]

Or read the collected works of Judith Butler before having an opinion about trans or 3rd-wave feminism.

[@charlesw852]

So one can’t criticise Nazism without listening to Hitler’s speeches in their original German? (An obvious, and in some ways silly, comparison admittedly, but the logic still stands.)

[@jmc5335]

Sam Harris believes he is misrepresented when criticised, so I'm unsure what makes him think he can un

[@zan6585]

It's even worse, it's like "You can't critique Hitler without listening and reading him in German and becoming a Nazi yourself at some point."

[@percilenis8464]

It is ridiculous to deflect criticism by saying neither of you study the scripture on a scholarly level. Is it even more absurd to suggest one should study it in Arabic. Is it even MORE absurd to suggest that spending time in Afghanistan puts you at some sort of advantage when discussing Islam and foreign policy. We do not judge expertise and knowledge in this kind of way and it is childish to think that you need to study the religious scripture on an academic level or to read it in its original language to really have a place in talking about it. Sam Harris has a grounded understanding of Islam that has yet to be properly challenged by any of his critics. There is a reason why his critics engage in ad hominem attacks and pretend he is a racist: they simply have no actual argument against what he’s saying. If you want to dip into the line of thinking Rory wants to hide behind, you will NEVER have ANY firm ground to criticize Judaism or Christianity unless you speak Hebrew. Good luck challenging any journalism and biased reporting because you simply have not been on the ground as a journalist has. What a ridiculous dodge.

[@TheHuxleyAgnostic]

No. Sam doesn't seem to grasp what a religion even is. It's not writings. If nobody is practicing the writings, it's a mythology. A religion is something people put into practice. If the vast majority of Muslims aren't practicing in the way ISIS is practicing, then it's ludacris for Sam to say the ISIS version is the true Islam. He also doesn't seem to grasp what a "Muslim" is. A "Muslim", by definition, is someone who practices Islam. So, if you say "This one horrible way of interpreting and doing things is Islam", then you're saying something about every single Muslim on the planet. He sounds like ISIS himself, when he makes out like non ISIS Muslims are less Muslim, or "nominal" Muslims. Quakers aren't less Christian, or "nominal" Christians. They are generally quite religious, but simply have a different interpretation, than more violent Christians. Sam also latched onto a stupid poll of Muslim views, and spewed those statistics into a vacuum, with nothing to compare them to. "Oh my gosh! A significant minority of the 'Muslim World' believe trrrism is sometimes okay!" Okay ... and? An actual majority of the "Jwsh World" (IL) still celebrates the Irgun and Lehi trrrist founders of Likud, as "heroes". 80% of Americans once thought that blwing up hundreds of thousands of Iraqis was a good idea. He flippantly dismisses talk of Christians, as if the only xtremism was some US anti-abortionists, decades ago. Meanwhile, Christians, in Africa, campaigned against cndm use, even lying and saying cndms cause HIV, as tens of millions of people lost their lives. He goes on about women, in a handful of Muslim countries. Meanwhile, the entire "Hindu World" is ranked lower than Saudi, for the treatment of women. Sam does zero honest comparisons of religions. He doesn't seem to have a firm grasp on what's going on in the world. Europe and NA no longer represents the majority of Christians. The majority of the "Christian World" is represented by Central/South America, Africa, and Asia.

[@prometheus3498]

When I want to learn about the Bible, I go to academics (Joseph Alexanian/Linda Belleville/Bart Ehrman/Mitchell Reddish) because they've studied the Bible in a systematic and contextualized way. Don't see why it should be different for the Quran.

[@Sandybowls_9001]

​@TheHuxleyAgnostic exactly, thats like comparing a protestant to a maga evangelical and saying they're both the same.

[@FigmentHF]

Yeah.- “We can’t possibly critique or understand Russian politics or culture, unless we’re born in Russia and are indoctrinated into the propaganda and inculcated into the society” That’s not how this works

[@PhenomenalWorld]

well fuck'n said!

[@Seekingsophia00]

It does pose a threat. Simple. You dont need a 90-minute discussion.

[@definitelynotcole]

I mean Sam Harris has a degree in the philosophy of religion and has studied it all his life. I won't disagree that he has this strange obsession over Islam but that's also due to it inspiring one of the most damaging attacks on his country's soil. But his qualifications to speak speak on and compare religions are clearly up to standard. Not that they're required to begin with.

[@justins.5222]

💯 🎯

[@fionaetienne1693]

No, Sam Harris, is an islamophobe, who's soul intent is to slur everyday peace loving ordinary Muslims. Sam Harris stirs up hate and makes people's lives miserable.

[@godisbollocks]

When one religion is committing the lion's share of global terrorist atrocities, then you look at their holy scripture and find martyrdom spruiked as a sure-fire way to get into heaven after death, why wouldn't we place the microscope of scrutiny firmly on that faith? There's nothing remotely weird about Harris zeroing in on Islam as the most problematic faith on Earth.

[@chrisjones658]

I agree - although I don't know why anyone would think it strange to be obsessed with Islam if one also takes the position that religion is bad. I'm also old enough to remember a time when him, Hitchens, Dawkins, Dennet, Brian Greene etc. were all obsessed with Christianity far more than Islam. It's only really post-9/11 and in an ever increasingly secularist America that Islam is now the biggest issue. I'm sure if Hindus or Sikhs were moving to Europe, the UK, the US and causing problems, threatening literal elected officials and doing a much worse job at assimilating than almost any other groups (although certain very specific African nationals are problematic too) then he'd be speaking about Hinduism or Sikhism. He's also just as vocal about his opposition to Donald Trump and a populist right-wing movement he probably would tell you is as equally as problematic.

[@nunya2076]

Wikipedia just says his degree is in philosophy. Where did you read that it's in philosophy of religion? Honest question. Does he say it in one of his books?

[@heliosperegrin]

I lost respect for Rory after this debacle

[@nudsh]

Rory went on with a rather sophisticated string of words to offer the laziest argument ever. He completely misses the point of Sam's criticism. Crime, housing, EU encroachment, infrastructure, etc are erosion of public services and lack of proper law enforcement which England has been on the decline for 4 decades. An erosion of culture and the importation of an extreme religion is Sam's critique which Rory just waived aside as it its effects aren't immediately present and worsening because, "don't read religious texts in original language?". Meh

[@louduva9849]

Simp harder for your Jewish guru.

[@yoanageorgieva3068]

The guy is a useful fool. Not an evil-doer himself, but evil-doers will use his kind to do their evil deeds.

[@jimwallington437]

This attitude about reading the Quran in Arabic is seriously messed up. Are Islamic scholars trying to tell us that Allah was such a poor communicator that his message can be only understood in one language. Perhaps Allah needs to take a few courses on effective communication.

[@Needlestolearn]

Quran is in Arabic. You must accept that fact, whether you believe it makes no sense to accept the Arabic word.

[@dionysis_]

Poetry can not be translated. The Qur’an has an effect on the listener that is dependant on its sound and meaning. In addition the Arabic language with its triliteral roots allows for a multiplicity of meanings that are “vertical” so to speak in contrast to Greek or German with their wonderful linear composition. Hope that helps 🙂

[@jimwallington437]

@@dionysis_ Allah wants to be a poet, not communicate his message?

[@dionysis_]

@@jimwallington437 read Iain McGilChrist. Non linear language is deeper than linear one. Independently of the question regarding divine inspiration, your objections are not very strong.

[@jimwallington437]

@@dionysis_ Ludicrous that a god who wanted to get a message to the world would send it to one person, in one language. How can people believe such nonsense?

[@davidlamb7524]

It's irrelevant what religious scholars, philologists etc make of the original texts of ancient scriptures. What worries Sam and many of us is how is it interpreted by the majority today ? For example the most widely read (and comprehended,not merely parroted) version of the Quran is actually in the English language. It is "The Noble Qur'an" which has recently been re-edited to make it sound more scientific and up to date. The earlier version also included Hadiths as footnotes, including the most notorious ones from Bukhari. eg 'kill them where you find them..' .'.a Jew hiding behind a rock ...' " jihad defined as 'struggle with men and arms' and as 'one of the pillars on which Islam is built. etc. Ok so we don't know what the classical Arabic actually said but this is what most Muslims have been reading and so go by.

[@scipdiddly]

There's a gender apartheid in Islamic countries, but to woke extremists like Rory, it has nothing to do with Islam. I mean, Rory is seriously lost.

[@PJM273]

Some of my best friends are Muslims... says Rory, to answer a question no one asked.

[@mariaradulovic3203]

Why do we need to read Quran in Arabic? Who read The Bible in its original language? BS.

[@TheBaconWizard]

Hence the vast majority of people have a completely warped idea of what The Bible actually says.

[@altosack]

@@TheBaconWizard -- In any case, many people in the world have religious ideas put into their heads by (whomever), and act accordingly. We may wonder why they act that way, but it's prudent for us to _react_.accordingly. You may put your head in academic sand and call their ideas warped; we can argue about why they are warped; in the end, it doesn't matter; we must react appropriately to how they use that (what I think of as) abject nonsense.

[@motorhead48067]

I don’t think Sam’s view of Islam is a result of him getting abusive or threatening messages from Muslims and I think that was a misleading way for Alex to defend him. He had the same view in his first book before we was a public figure at all. I think Harris is looking at what’s happening in the world in regards to Islamism and Jihadism and looking at the Quran, Hadith, and the example of Muhammad and drawing the obvious connection between them.

[@iger55]

Rory Stewart looks smart but makes little sense with regard to what is being discussed in this piece. I understand why Sam found him so frustrating.

[@AmeliaBodilia]

Intolerant? Slavers? Lunatics? And? Murderers? When someone shows you who they really are, believe them.

[@majm9309]

Does Harris actually feel Islam is the most important issue? Or does here merely argue it's _An Issue?_ I've always had the impression of the latter, but I missed this interview so I'm curious if the tone was quite different from most of his stuff. Basically I worry about someone arguing intellectuals can't engage on any issue unless it's _The Most Important Existential Threat Humanity Faces._

[@ZodsSnappedNeck]

“Islam is the mother lode of bad ideas” - Sam Harris AI, today, is obviously the most important issue according to Harris, but Islam is the crux of his criticisms of organized religion.

[@shelleyscloud3651]

Laughable that Rory thinks he has his finger on the pulse of British public opinion. And is that him now calling JK Rowling a crank?!!!

[@majm9309]

@@ZodsSnappedNeck Well it's undeniable Islam is the crux of his criticisms of organized religion. I'm just not sure, especially with his comments about morality centering on well-being, that he wouldn't consider quite a lot of other basic issues more important first (starvation, education, medicine, etc; you know, the things moving the primary metrics you think of when it comes to well-being).

[@JeffBedrick]

One doesn't need to be a scholar on the Quran in the original ancient Aramaic to recognize acts of violence being committed in it's name today. The only real question is whether this represents a more widespread and imminent threat or whether they are relatively isolated incidents committed by a small fringe. Far more people die every day from heart disease and car accidents but no one seems to worry much about those more common, mundane dangers.

[@godisbollocks]

Heart disease and car crashes are not malevolent entities. Strange of you to bring those up.

[@JeffBedrick]

@@godisbollocks My point is about how people's evaluations of a potential danger are biased regardless of the statistical likelihood.and more based on a subjective, emotional reaction to the perceived intention, even if the latter is relatively rare. And yet many superstitious people will even interpret car accidents and heart disease as "punishments from God", but always after the fact.

[@godisbollocks]

@JeffBedrick Thanks for elaborating. I think we're more blasè about car accidents and relatively unforeseeable things like heart attacks because they could strike at any time and without warning. Car accidents and heart attacks will always be with us. We could change the speed limit to 20mph on the highway and enforce a diet of spinach and lentils on the community and we still wouldn't eradicate car accidents and heart attacks. It's only natural to feel greater fear and hostility towards malevolent acts of violence than towards accidents and sudden unforeseen health crises. Especially when those committing the malevolent acts are by their own admission beyond persuasion and acting on the basis of nonsensical metaphysical ramblings written down many centuries ago. We're dealing there not only with harmful people, but utterly deluded harmful people. Then when you consider that most of the Muslim world is completely broke, and wonder what sort of madness those nations would be producing if their baseline standard of wealth was comparable to that of Western countries, the problem becomes scarier still. In his first book Sam Harris talked about Pew polling data taken in several Muslim majority nations regarding attitudes towards equality and governance, and the findings were appalling. Significant majorities of citizens in massive countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh claim to want to live under Sharia Law and all the horror that this entails. This is to say nothing about the vehement loathing of homosexuals, atheists and apostates. One could hardly conceive of a belief system more perfectly antithetical to everything that liberal democracy stands for. Finally, consider that countless numbers of our fellow westerners have been duped into thinking that any and all criticism of this belief system is flat-out racism, and we're practically ringing the dinner bell for such idiocy to flood into our societies unabated. It's vastly more concerning than car accidents or heart attacks, in my opinion.

[@JeffBedrick]

This is a similar conversation to Sam Harris's rather contentious debate with Noam Chomsky. Harris argued that intention is more important than body count. Chomsky argued the latter. It seems as though the real difference here is the question of what has happened up until the present moment and what is likely to happen in the future.

[@shelleyscloud3651]

Rory despite all his obvious intelligence and education is too blinded by ideology, and perhaps terrified for political purposes, to accept the inconvenient truth.

[@gagestandingready1472]

Sam Harris is the smartest stupid person I've ever seen.

[@louislemar796]

A few cranks? Sam often cites Gallup polls who have polled tens of thousands of Muslims in Muslim-majority countries about their views toward homosexuality or whether they want to see sharia or Jihad worldwide and the results are never good.

[@chemquests]

Wow, Alex is turning into a postmodernist, given his explanation of lived experience.

[@carr87500]

Interesting that the old Etonian doesn't identify the class divide as a British problem.

[@skier145]

Someone needs to better advise Rory on his sweater choices

[@wallywooyeah1]

There are none so blind as those who will not see

[@richardwillford2418]

Born in one of the colonies, on to Eton, then Balliol and... yihaa! - straight into the Diplomatic Service, followed by cabinet post under Cameron. Lives in Kensington and a country house in Cumbria. Honestly, Rory, how often do you visit Blackburn? Or have you been to my hometown, Malmö?

[@commonwunder]

Richard Dawkins recently said he was a ''cultural Christian' because he prefers the quaint, relaxed, almost 'flaccid' version of Christianity that now prevails in the UK and possibly also in the US. It has been de-clawed. It's a ghost, that echos throughout society... but has no real influence or power. Just like the UK's monarchy. It is a reminder of the past... but more importantly, an outdated ''impotent' reminder, of where some Westerners ( who used religion as their power base ) once morally and ethically stood. A reminder never to visit a time, where religious leaders could wield 'life and death' power, through a fanciful children's story. Whereas the Muslim faith is a younger, more energetic and a rebellious religion. Its leaders want it to breath, want it to grow, want for it to conquer minds and the entire world. They want to wield power through a fairy story whilst personally empowering themselves. This 'project' is capable of being extremely dangerous and detrimental to a Western secular worldview. It isn't xenophobia or Islamophobia to know an archaic belief system is diametrically opposed to your way of life. At its heart, ( for the masses under its dictates ) all religion was a panacea from harsher times. When peoples lives were wretched and an appeal to an afterlife ...was a cure to their present suffering. Their 'sky-cult' father figure was in charge. Everything had a meaning and their life ultimately was 'only' a test.-run. This 'was' a useful and important psychological tool. Now this archaic mechanism 'for Dawkins at least' is decidedly defunct. You don't need to be treated as if a child anymore. You don't need the puzzle of life to have a fairy story added to it, in order for everything to make sense to you - to manage your existential and societal anxiety. Religious humans, living in the knowledge that this life isn't real, that it is only an illusion... is beyond dangerous. Only their 'afterlife' having any real meaning is a poisonous view of what it means to be alive. It is outdated and obsolete. It dehumanises how you relate to others and their value. It devalues human life... in the here and now. It says you don't need to built a better world, only a more religious one. Dawkins is aware...that if the leaders of the Muslim faith gained ultimate supreme power tomorrow. Everything the West has built, all of its art, literature and its culture would be immediately burnt or destroyed, as offensively sacrilegious. All secular freedoms and individual rights demolished overnight. If you accept the West's cultural history as a significant achievement. Then the Muslim faith is not benign, it is something you should be deeply wary of. It doesn't 'come in peace'. It comes to conquer. It comes to succeed and demolish everything its way. Never look to the followers of a cult, never the sheep... only at its leaders to see its true aims.

[@altosack]

"and possibly also in the US" If you think Christianity doesn't have overwhelming effects on everything that goes on in politics and personal lives in the US, you have no idea about the US. To wit, in 98+% of political venues in the US (and certainly including president), one could _never_ be an atheist, or any religion other than Christian, and expect to have a chance of being elected. Mr Trump, whom I think we can all agree has been a disaster for the US and the world, would _never_ have been elected without the support of evangelicals in the US. It has _not_ been "declawed", as you put it.

[@FullOfSpuds]

I like Rory as a host of The Rest Is Politics. The balance and dynamic between him and Campbell works, especially getting views on British politics from former insiders at the highest level of both major parties. But this whole debacle reminds me hes still a slippery politician who will prevaracate and worm his way through a topic where hes worried about looking bad or offending any part of his audience. Its childishly naive to pretend there arent valid criticisms of Islam that dont apply as much to other religions, and it was extremely disappointing to see Rory wilfully misrepresent Sam

[@Eric-hi5py]

The apologetics that rory does for islam is so strange. I would not be surprised if he was being paid by qatar or saudi arabia

[@jouzel8951]

Alex, Rory didn't answer most questions directly. I feel you could have herded him back to the point, and not let him spin so much. He is very slippery though....

[@charlieweaver6322]

You should've asked him about Sir David Amess

[@richardwillford2418]

As long as Islam pushes itself on and is a part of British society, it HAS to be discussed. But according to Stewart only by people who've read the Quran in Arabic. That's beyond stupid. I.e. dogmatism.

[@mistersonnen848]

Ex Muslim here and people like Rory are the death of Europe.

[@DollyPocket]

Classic Wrong Rory. Diversion tactics. Wanting to avoid the question by saying it’s not in the top priority in the UK.

[@Ricehigh85]

I am a bit surprised that the comments are so negative, I think he was quite eloquent and reflected on the topic. I do not agree with him and do believe that Islam is quite a huge threat if it gains political power (as it seems to do in Britain), as it seems to have doctrines that are opposition much of what we have fought for in western Europe, and do not want to lose. I don't get why disagree should equate to this amount of negativity, seems quite unfair to me.

[@shelleyscloud3651]

Because Rory uses eloquence & reflection to prevaricate. It’s window dressing.

[@djrussell1989]

I don't know what political views Rory holds but lets say he was a Labour supporter. By definition he is not a Tory, therefore can he not criticise Tory policy or ideology? Or vice versa if he is indeed a conservative. I abhor this view, held by many, that just because you haven't become a specialist in a certain area then you can't criticise it. This notion holds up in no other intellectual walk of life.

[@careneh33]

No, not everybody has a pet theory why the world will end soon. It's just that those who don't, won't throw their lack of a pet theory right into your face.

[@JimJamJuicy]

How idiotic to rationalise away facts in this way

[@zacroffs]

I've always gotten the impression that Rory Stewart has a soft spot around Islam because of his history in Muslim countries, ie. when he defended the Gulf states from backlash around the world cup relating to them having the death penalty for homosexuality, saying that lots of countries like Nigeria have it and don't get backlash and Gulf states never use it so the criticism is unfair and islamaphobic. Because of this I was expecting to dislike his take here but it was measured and insightful as per usual from him. Really smart guy and I'm glad he's getting involved in these online conversations that rarely have real politicians. It changes the perspective a surprising amount

[@lmr1049]

having a soft spot around islam is insane and his take on the gulf states is even more insane

[@zacroffs]

@@lmr1049 yeah but I think he was born and lived in Malaysia which is a Muslim country, walked through the middle east for a few years as a young man living in random villager homes, speaks a bit of Arabic and Farsi, was governor of an Iraqi province after the invasion for several years, and he is involved in many middle eastern non-profits and spends lots of time over there. So I think he feels a lot of pressure from his friends in those communities and has seen firsthand the average Muslims moderate engagement with Islamic law and their passion for their culture, so he has a problem with people trying to put it all under an extremist umbrella. Obviously I disagree with a lot of of his biases there but it's important to understand where it comes from I think

[@shelleyscloud3651]

@@zacroffsHong Kong - his father was working there as an academic

[@stephenphillips3883]

This man is a professional obfuscator, many political and moral commentators dance around difficult subjects in a way that clearly shows an honest struggle to understand or come to terms with whatever issue is on the table, like Jordan Peterson, he's not dishonest or intending to deflect or befuddle but he can certainly appear to be infuriatingly nonsensical. Rory Stewart is one of many faux good faith conversationalists making his way around the podcast circuit who is, in my mind, absolutely disingenuous and frankly full of shit. I attempted to coax myself into watching the full episode by watching this clip, the only thing I'm sure of now is that I won't bother listening to him again on any subject because it's entirely pointless and antithetical to good faith dialogue.

[@user-qr1wq1yy1w]

Rory Stewart is a dork and his mom dresses him

[@tommytwo-times9053]

nice

[@031767sc]

rory is a clown, fighting to not be cancelled

[@Sandybowls_9001]

these conversations are just you guys talking in circles. where no points are ever really made or agreed upon. It's like a competition of who can vomit out the biggest word.

[@CoryBleichner]

Don't you wish he could hear how bad his arguments are.?

[@ravenecho2410]

Praise nick fuentes's lived experience, how much one christian ethnobationalist take /s, argument silly

[@ourmobilehomemakeover662]

I agree that there’s something creepy about two guys who aren’t experts and also don’t have any personal experience trying to come to a definitive answer about a complex issue. As Rory said, many messages are subjective and can be fine or problematic depending very much on the context and who’s receiving it. Does the Quran have a lot of really messed stuff? Yes, and so does the Bible and so do other religious texts. Is there a worrying tendency of leaders in the Islamic world to use religion to control and dominate their constituents and to aggressively attack their enemies? Also yes. And, again this is not unique in the world. Is it easy for people who grew up in Christianity or Hinduism to think of Islam as uniquely cruel and aggressive? Also yes.

[@interloc1290]

I think the very idea of a morally perfect arbiter of justice giving instructions for how to behave written in books or otherwise , by its very nature undercuts the rule of the laws of men. The issue is which set of rules maps onto which societies. A society built on the premise of worshipping cats. And a society built on the premise of worshipping cows Will have more laws compatible with eachother then say a third society that worships the concept of justice. But if you transplant enough of one group into the other group the laws will change to reflect that. I think Rory focuses on the superficial similarities and is too dismissive of the impact of the differences in principle. In a hybrid cow/cat society things like a right to eat meat could become corrosive to peace and cooperation. So it’s about where you belive the incongruity exists and how much of an impact it has on the society.

[@motorhead48067]

It’s not creepy. It’s just that you really, really do not need to be an Islamic scholar to see that a perfectly honest and straightforward interpretation of the Quran gets you groups like ISIS, Al-Qaeda, and Hamas. Mohammed, the greatest man to ever live according to Islam, was a conquering warlord who took sex slaves and had his enemies killed. That really matters. You don’t have to be an Islamic scholar to see it in the same way you don’t have to be a Christian scholar to see how the Bible has influenced American homophobia. It is blindingly obvious.

[@michelangelope830]

The true God is Spinoza's God. Emergency! If you think about what i said you would feel incredibly better. Only one absolute truth exists. Only one reality exists. Different people perceive reality differently. Different people understand reality differently. I want to know the truth. I want to know if I was created. What or who created me? I think Time created me after existing for ever. Time is something that decided to create the universe from self after existing forever. It's a fact, it's reality, it's what happened, it's the truth. God is necessary and I have not won a debate in my life. I have given to you the solution to all the problems and with the information you will do what you decide. You choose. I chose. I learnt. Now I understand reality differently. I live to try to save planet Earth from destruction. The most important and urgent is to abolish the armies and to control the number of population. The armies are the biggest threat to planet Earth. Humanity doesn't need armies. The war must end. Planet Earth is one community. Planet Earth is one social club to learn and enjoy ourselves, a classroom, a boat. I think the boat is sinking because the world is Godless. Atheism and religion are misunderstandings of reality harmful to perfect God. I can not speak clearer. When a molecule is divided God is literally divided. I can not speak clearer. God created self to experience a life. It is just an idea that can not do any harm to anyone and is censored. Spinoza's God and my God is good because if you agree with us you understand we have to understand each other. You have your life and I have mine. What do you want? What bothers you? Why are you not happy? I am not happy because the boat is sinking and people don't care. What is the optimum number of humans on planet Earth to maximize sustenability? Are we enough or not enough? It is possible to be happy thinking. We live to see the future, we live to see the future because the future of life is unforeseeable. Was the Quran memorized? Is atheism a logical fallacy? To not waste this loving poem I say atheism is a logical fallacy that assumes God is the religious idea of the creator of the creation to conclude wrongly no creator exists because a particular idea of God doesn’t exist. Thank you.

[@godisbollocks]

Thank you for that utter hogwash

[@erikklumpp3464]

The idea that Islam is local is profound and the fact that Sam can’t get shows his ineptitude

[@rickwyant]

These debates are great money makers that attract all the aspiring and imaginary "intellectuals" in the world. Just once I'd like to hear them talk like a normal human being.

[@funsun.]

How about Sam Harris and his likes start talking about who is behind the fall of the secular movement and the rise of terrorism in middle east. Start with an U and ends with an A, and don't forget her allies.

[@godisbollocks]

That old chestnut. More George Galloway drivel. Give it a rest. The beef between America and the Muslim world began centuries ago with the First Barbary War. It was entirely initiated by the Ottoman Empire for entirely theocratic reasons, ie: they attacked American sailors en masse precisely because those Americans were infidels. I'm sure you feel hip and morally enlightened, blaming the clusterf*ck that is the Middle East on the USA, but it's masochistic stupidity with no basis in historical reality.