Could a VPI Scout Turntable Take Center Stage In My System?

[@dutchcanuck7550]

Oswaldo sounds like a dealer who is really on game for his customers. I bet he loves his job, putting smiles on the faces of everyone he works with.

[@ThePressingMatters]

Absolutely. I've never encountered someone like him.

[@marksironi3324]

Seems like a nice guy. Known about him through his posts going back to the mid 90's and the Phonogram email list.

[@ThePressingMatters]

@@marksironi3324 He can be of strong opinion, but he's usually right on! Very nice guy!

[@chrismckee4154]

“Just when I thought I was done upgrading”….famous last words of an audiophile! Those speakers look gorgeous!

[@ThePressingMatters]

Ha, I know, I thought that same phrase when I was saying it. I really thought I was done for awhile, but when opportunity knocks, well I have to give it a whirl literally! Yes the speakers are beautiful. It's hard to photograph them. The fit and finish are top notch and I love the graceful shape of the back. I needed something exactly this size and height, but most slim floorstanders look like bad totem poles! This looks like a rare musical instrument, and in a way it is.

[@johnkreutz3207]

I have had my scout 2 since 2008. Love the sound and performance. I went to the factory facility in New Jersey a couple of years ago for a motor upgrade. Everyone was so helpful. Stick with it you won't be disappointed. Currently using a Hanna Blue with excellent results Please keep us all updated in your progress

[@ThePressingMatters]

I love that the company is so active and accessible to their customers. The fact that they are a solid, thriving business located right here is very attractive to me. There's no question support is there always.

[@adamdavi8869]

Hi, I went the exact way you are leaning. Basis 1400 traded for a VPI (Scoutmaster- without the platter upgrade-, but the same pathway). I found the VPI a definite upgrade over the Basis. I think you'll enjoy the difference. If you upgrade the feet you'll get a better image, and a tighter presentation. I don't have the periphery ring or the OTF VTA adjustment, and haven't missed it, so I believe. I really liked the Basis, but the lack of upgradability was a big detriment. I do have a speed controller (not VPI) however I find very little drift in VPI's motor. Good luck with the change, and thanks for the Goucho, and Yes album reviews. My next purchases.

[@ThePressingMatters]

So great to hear from someone who made such a similar switch! I'm very excited. It's been a great run with the Basis but I feel I need the flexibility of the upgrade path. You're welcome for the reviews! Both wonderful selections, the kind of records we dream about!

[@thevinylmuseum2958]

Hi Scott, If I were in your shoes I would not hesitate with that offer from Oswaldo. Take the deal before he reconsiders, LOL!. Now I have to be honest I have owned a VPI Classic Signature 3 since 2014 and have no regrets. My VPI had some upgrades along the way, the Phoenix Engineering's Falcon PSU and Roadrunner (No Longer for Sale) for precise 33.333 and 45.000 rpm speed. Starts and Stops on a dime. Look into the VPI Periphery outer Ring Clamp. Once you do this you will be set for life. Enjoy the music whatever you decide. PS -Your description of the 75th Atlantic Series for the Yes Album was bang on. By far one of the major highlights of the series to date......

[@ThePressingMatters]

Hi Tony! Thank you so much for chiming in here. I remember now that you use a VPI, and have for a while so your thoughts on it hold a lot of weight for me. Ultimately it will come down to some intense listening sessions. I won't be able to A/B, but I know the sound of my Basis and reference records very well, and I've come to realize where I would like to see improvements. Even if it's not an end game table, an increase in SQ is always welcome, and the upgrade paths and flexibility will be very attractive. Thanks too for mentioning The Yes Album. I had no qualms giving it a big rave review. So impressive. Glad you thought so too Take care my friend, and stay tuned for more details on this!

[@rcpsammy7186]

My vintage Thorens runs like a Swiss watch, and since I'm too old now for expensive upgrades, I'm staying put. Good for you in your upgrading ventures...youngster 😉

[@ThePressingMatters]

I bet that is a beautiful table. Something special about them for sure. This is a fun little venture for me. Keeps me young! 😁

[@kieronkelly959]

Oswaldo vinyl rip of The Fixx lead me to my Reed 1C Muse turntable. Extremely happy with this table and glad he does this. He’s a legend 👍

[@ThePressingMatters]

I love his vinyl rips! He's been so active sharing his passion in groups, forums, a really cool traveling tape project, his own channel, and his audio business. A very kind and generous man who also has an ear for great sound, and strong and solid opinions on all things sound related. I hope to have him on the channel soon. He is a legend!

[@raywelsh5335]

Scott, do what makes you happy my friend. My favourite quote in life is Ghandi saying 'There is more to life, than increasing it's speed' seems apropos. 😁

[@ThePressingMatters]

Thanks Ray, I agree. We work hard, and this hobby brings us joy. I've got no reservation about indulging responsibly 😁

[@JeffersonDD]

I’ve known Oz for years and he’s very honest and a straight shooter. You just described the very reason he’s so awesome, the level of troubleshooting and dedication to run down an issue. FWIW; I’ve ran a VPI scoutmaster for about 15 years. The only upgrades I’ve done are the HRX feet and a heavier record clamp. It’s been rock solid during that time and I can’t recommend it enough (I usually use some flavor of Benz Micro wood body cartridge with it. Good luck with the evaluation! PS: don’t buy that cover… unless you have a problematic cat, it’s a PITA to deal with, and the table is easy enough to dust on its own

[@JustFortheRecord66]

Nice score, Scott! I’ve owned a couple VPI Scouts and the VPI Classic table. Was not aware that the Classic platter could be used on the Scout. Very nice tables that I sold when I needed some money, as they hold their value very well. I wish I had kept one of the Scouts, as they sound good and look great with vintage McIntosh gear. I’m happy with my old Empire tables though (which the Classic is somewhat based on).

[@ThePressingMatters]

I'm quite excited to really dig down and see if I can hear improvements. There is definitely room for some of course!

[@taralewis9916]

Hi Scott, I hope you don't get tangled up into the audiophile trap. I have always tried to do as much of my system on my own. I am on my second LP12 and have a table jig to do all my own updates. I was instructed, years back by a LINN dealer technician on the LP12 protocol and have been able to get great results without breaking the bank. LINN products are extremely popular in the UK and I have been able to strike some get deals on ebayUK.com. I recently did the KEEL and Kandid coiling upgrades. There's nothing like getting a LINN part from the UK directly and then spending the whole night installing it.

[@ThePressingMatters]

Hi Tara, I don't think I will, I'm not going to go crazy with this, just curious if I can hear a difference, and hopefully an improvement overall. If not, I'll decline the offer. Years ago in did have an LP12 and I loved it too. I wish I had the education you received about it. Unfortunately it was stolen when I temporarily had it in storage. Otherwise I might have kept up with it.

[@jeffbellin8224]

Great, Scott. Good luck with this. Yes, the solidity of the sound should be part of the improvement with the VPI. I bought the SDS before VPI created the ADS (The SDS had displaced it). But Harry Weisfeld felt that an all analog circuit sounded better than one with a digital step in it (as is the case with the SDS). In any event, even the SDS, which I own, not only gives you the benefit of easy switching between 33 and 45 (so without needed to move the pulley), but it further solidifies the presentation. I'm curious to hear your findings, comparing the two tables.

[@ThePressingMatters]

Thanks Jeff! I am pretty excited to see how this plays out. The pulley will be here tomorrow and Oz is coming by on Sunday with it and his SDS (or ADS), so I can hear its potential with and without it. I'm sure if I like the basic character of the turntable (or should I say absence of character!) then the ADS will be added shortly thereafter. I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions for you as things evolve.

[@timarnett7813]

I went vpi years ago and love them. They are solid and a tweakers dream. Currently have two tricked out VPIs, TNT mk II and HW-19 mkiii. Enjoy!

[@ThePressingMatters]

I think i will! I guess you have experience with the SDS/ADS units. Did you add one as in upgrade and what did you notice? So far in the comments here there's one absolutely for it and another that didn't feel so strongly.

[@MikesVinylExperience]

Good luck Scott. I love my VPI Prime, its only about a 1 1/2 years old and love it's solid build and supper quiet operation.

[@ThePressingMatters]

Thanks Mike! I'm so excited to start listening to it. Sunday we'll have it running, and I'll update everyone in a follow up video.

[@aa5az423]

I ended up with the Rega P6, but the Scout was my other option. I think they are wonderful pieces for the money!

[@ThePressingMatters]

I've heard the Rega and it was fantastic. Must have been a difficult choice. For the second hand price, it could be a steal! We'll see how it goes!

[@dirkbusche54]

Thank you for your true story, which is not too funny. I sold my VPI Scout 1.1 with Alu Platter, it did sound very well, but I did not like the external Motor and the Unipivot arm. Now I am an owner of the new Denon DP 3000 NE, a direct drive TT with S-shape arm and Changeable Headshell. Very easy to handle with my seven cartridges. Very good sound, even better as the VPI, astonishing, cause the Denon costs only 2500 Euro. The VPI Scout 1.1 was 3000 Euros. I wish you good luck with your VPI, suppose its a good sounding deal.

[@ThePressingMatters]

Sure, I haven't had a chance to see if I can get used to the unipivot design. I'm used to a separate motor though and understand its benefit. Did you have a platter like this one?

[@brianbillings6815]

A dealer friend of mine is very high on the Denon DP3000NE and recommended one to me. I just couldn't get past it being made in China and not Japan.

[@pnichols6500]

Get the ADS, ends your problem, definitely improves the sound mostly by giving a solid and surefooted sound. Need the one speed pully, you change speeds with the controller, the ADS controller allows fine speed changes, you can get the strobe mark to not deviate. My favorite part is you can run three belts eliminating belt squeak and chatter. 3 belts really solidifies the drive.

[@ThePressingMatters]

I have purchased and installed the ADS! When I decided on the table, I ordered it. I haven't yet ordered the special pulley and extra belts. You can follow the story in the two follow up videos.

[@octothorpe12]

Yeah, the Scout is a platform, and a pretty darn good one. It sucks that you had a bad experience due to the missing external speed controller, but I hope it gets resolved soon, and you get to have some fun with the Scout.

[@ThePressingMatters]

Things are looking good. We have Matt Weisfeld in on this, having checked the motor, supplying the correct pulley and so forth. Oz is going to bring his personal ADS so that I can hear the table with and without it. I can't wait!

[@markpocock183]

Great that Oswoldo is giving you that chance to try it out! A bit tough to compare without being able to A/B turntables with the same cartridge. Try not to let the visual and expectations colour your evaluation...easy to say, but difficult to do!

[@ThePressingMatters]

Yeah it's very helpful to have in home experience. I can't AB but we did make a file of the Basis Hana and we will repeat it for the VPi Hana. I may have him do a blind listening test on me as well as my own two week audition.

[@markpocock183]

​@ThePressingMatters Great ideas! Keen to hear your thoughts.

[@rc2257]

Seems like Oswaldo didn’t sufficiently vet his purchase of the used VPI given all the problems. But if he can get the VPI working perfectly, and given the deal he’s offered you, that sounds like it would be really tough to pass up. Happy 4th! Warmly, Ron

[@LetThereBeSound1]

You have a point. I did not vet the product before bringing it to Scott’s - only a visual check to ensure general condition and that all the different parts were in the box - but that was partly because the turntable came from a trusted source. Still, a bit of an unfortunate situation that could have been avoided. But on the upside and with VPI’s head honcho’s direct involvement we are absolutely making this right for Scott. Now let the better turntable win out!!!

[@ThePressingMatters]

Perhaps not as it came from a loyal client, and Oz knew if he found any issues the client would take care of them. Which he did. I'm glad we got to inspect it together. I learned a lot and now am confident that I have a brand new motor. It's actually a win in that regard. I'm confident the pulley will solve the speed issue and then I will start looking for a deal on a used SDS or ADS. Used is the way for audiophiles on a budget!

[@Orchestra101]

Good luck Scott! Sorry, I missed the livestream yesterday. Happy holiday weekend.

[@ThePressingMatters]

You too! See you soon!

[@drunkenskelator]

As a owner of a VPI Traveler I am biased but if you are successful in getting the Scout working properly I think that would be the route to go.

[@ThePressingMatters]

Thanks for your comment! I have no doubt we will sort out this last issue this week. I should be able to start auditioning it by the weekend. I'll make a follow up video with the progress.

[@jeffreywoodke]

Damn Scott you got a tough decision to make 🤔 both tables are gorgeous. Definitely see the appeal with the VPI. My buddy has that Scout and loves it. I just upgraded my amp to a Yamaha the other day, taken my system to another level! I’ll be curious to see what you end up with. Cheers mate ✌️

[@ThePressingMatters]

Well at first I wasn't sure about the appearance of the Scout, but it's definitely growing in me. It massive and imposing compared to the Basis. But that massive weight may be a plus in my setup. Congrats on your upgrade. Upgrades are nice way we can treat ourselves!

[@jeffreywoodke]

@@ThePressingMatters yeah man it is massive for sure. I get what you’re saying. I had a similar experience when I went from my Pro-Ject to the Denon DP-3000NE, it’s a tank. But man oh man it’s such a better TT and now looks totally normal to me.

[@geepee280]

Best of luck with it, Oswaldo is a gem!

[@ThePressingMatters]

He sure is!

[@brianbillings6815]

Hi Scott. Just an FYI, VPI will offer a one year warranty if you send the entire turntable back to them and have it fully serviced. They'll also perform the cartridge install. Otherwise they recommend SuperLube for lubrication of both the motor and the platter bearing. That appears to be a Scoutmaster base which is similar to my VPI turntable (A "super" with an upgraded 10" 3D printed tonearm with VTA base). I expect you'll find the turntable very pleasing once it is fully operational. I also noticed the SoundSmith "Counter intuitive" is already installed on the tonearm, something I'm considering for myself. Beware their upgrades are VERY expensive!! I also own the dustcover which cost me $350 new (mine had to be a bit different [AS400] due to the tonearm upgrade). The ADS is another upgrade I would consider for myself.

[@ThePressingMatters]

That's great to know, thank you. I wondered about the base and its vintage. I wonder why the badge isn't updated to Scoutmaster. What differentiates it? By the way the serial number on back is in the 5,000 range. Is yours also a unipivot design? How was it getting used to that if so? One thing I want to address is the cueing seems abrupt, it doesn't float down. I don't see where any adjustment or damping can be added. I'm sure Oz will address that as well.

[@brianbillings6815]

@@ThePressingMatters I've tried replying to this twice and neither shows up...

[@brianbillings6815]

@@ThePressingMatters The Scout has a single plinth, the Scoutmaster has a dual plinth sandwiching a steel plate. The Scout II has the aluminum platter that yours appears to have. On the VPI website under Legacy you'll see some of the models.

[@brianbillings6815]

@@ThePressingMatters I find the unipivot very fiddley and it was difficult to setup, especially the counterweight. It's very free floating. In a VPI video Matt suggests Harry prefers the unipivot and that it gives better bass extension. I also saw that the one you are evaluating has the SoundSmith counter-intuitive that I'm considering on the counterweight.

[@brianbillings6815]

As far a cueing, there's a video with Matt and Michael Fremer discussing past issues with the cueing mechanism. I believe it used to be imported from a Japanese manufacturer and wasn't serviceable. The newer one, visually distinct, is made in house and may be adjustable by the amount of oil in the system. Mine is the newer so yours may be as well. Supposedly a video on servicing. Oswaldo may be able to help.

[@kgobrien1]

fascinating

[@davepounds8924]

Sounds like the turntable you own is very nice so if it’s not a mind blowing difference why change??? Sounds like the VPI might present some problems for you!!

[@ThePressingMatters]

The Basis is very nice. It's just an easy cost free opportunity to hear something different and possibly better right in my own environment. That's priceless! Also I think the problems with the VpI are behind us. The motor is about the only thing that could fail, the rest is bulletproof. Now that we have a new motor, it's even more attractive IF the sound quality increase is significant. It could and will have greater speed stability so right there a plus, and I expect it to be quieter all around due to the massive weight. I'll have a follow up soon!

[@LetThereBeSound1]

We don't know that yet but we will be finding out soon! But personally, I don't see any problem that presented by the VPI? What could that be when he's got me as an authorized VPI dealer and VPI is a well into its 45th year of existence as a family owned business? SMH Where you are seeing "problems" I am seeing solutions and incredible customer support!

[@ThePressingMatters]

I agree with Oz, between the very hands on customer support from the company for one of their older turntables to having a dealer like Oz, I feel completely confident should any problem arise, Matt or Oz have my back!

[@AudiophiliaChannel]

SDS. Do it. Big upgrade. 👍👍

[@ThePressingMatters]

That's the plan!

[@marksironi3324]

@@ThePressingMatters SDS or ADS is basically required with VPI's motor.

[@ThePressingMatters]

@marksironi3324 Hmm, I can see it would be desirable but surely the can operate within some acceptable parameters without it?

[@buddybadee]

When Oswaldo initially contacted VPI, they should have sent a motor with the correct pulley.

[@ThePressingMatters]

Not sure why that didn't happen but maybe they were focused on the motor and hadn't seen the whole set up, not sure. But it seems the pulley arrived tomorrow with an install on Sunday so all is well.

[@buddybadee]

@@ThePressingMatters I wish you the best. Reminds me of past issues.

[@LetThereBeSound1]

I can explain. The Scout have had two previous owners. I took it on trade from its second owner and it arrived to him with the upgraded 12" 'Classic' platter ( Scouts shipped natively with a 11.5" platter from the factory ) Evidently the first owner upgraded to the larger/full size 12" platter but failed to realize he also needed to swap to the larger pulley. Also the reason neither owner heard the problem was because they both had been using the SDS speed corrector. So unfortunately, VPI nor I had any way of knowing that the pulley was the incorrect diameter. But at the end, the mistake was discovered and problem is being corrected.

[@brianbillings6815]

@@ThePressingMatters The pulley is sold separate from the motor. They are installed at the factory and checked/adjusted for WOW & Flutter. The pulley can be removed using several set screws. With no indication it was the wrong pulley, Oswaldo probably just ordered the motor and saved the extra expense.

[@keng888]

Scott, please advise what attributes you liked so much over the BASIS turntable

[@ThePressingMatters]

Well, I am planning a final installment in September that will talk about that. Very briefly here - a deeper, rock solid bass sound, very transparent, a larger soundstage, in depth particularly but width and even height, excellent dynamic contrasts, a lack of any brightness, more defined spatial placement, a reduction in surface noise, quicker transients, and a rhythm, pace and timing that unlocked the music in a way I hadn't heard before. Virtually everything improved. The Basis served me well for almost 20 years. But I now know the limitations it had.

[@keng888]

@@ThePressingMatters Thank you for your honest feedback. Looking forward to your next installment.

[@donjordan9444]

I have a VPI Scoutmaster turntable. I love it.

[@ThePressingMatters]

I am so impressed with the sound of the VPI Scout. Not sure if you saw the second follow up video, but since that time, I have sealed the deal and picked up the Scout shown in this video and an ADS controller. Two days later I left on vacation! I wanted to stay home and listen. It's that good!

[@donjordan9444]

@@ThePressingMatters I watched the second video. I have the Hana SH cartridge. You're using the Hana ML, is the sound quality noticeably better with the Hana M over the S?

[@ThePressingMatters]

@donjordan9444 Yes. The long history with the SL is documented in the videos titled System Update from over a year ago. Briefly, I bought the SL as it was the highest one in the Hana line I could afford. It never settled in, I had it set up by professionals 3 times and checked setup myself. It was always bright and edgy. Other aspects of it were ok, but by month 6 I had suspicions that it was defective. I had Musical Surroundings inspect it. They found no issue but were reluctant to replace it with another example. They strongly suggested going to the ML and allowed me to pay the difference. I gladly took the offer and it was like night and day. Lovely smooth and beautiful sound. I could not believe it. Now that I've changed turntables, it's even better. A review is coming soon. They knew I was planning a review of the SL, which might have prompted the response. Whether it was truly defective or it just didn't suit me I'll never know. Many seem to love it but if I had to do it again I would bite the bullet, save a little longer and get the ML.

[@ThePressingMatters]

Shibatas are very demanding in set up. I knew this going in and had an expert doublecheck the dealers set up, which was off. Still, the sound was forward and bright. I doubt I would get another Shibata from any maker. Also if your phono stage can work with it, the low output line is preferred by most users.

[@donjordan9444]

@@ThePressingMatters I've been doing a lot of digitization and restoration work on vintage LPs from the late 1950s to 1960s using a the Cambridge Audio Alva Duo phono preamp. I have gotten some wonderful results that preamp and the SH. I've been contemplating upgrading to an MH. I know the Alva Duo takes low-output MCs, but my main listening electronics includes a 1980s vintage Adcom preamp that doesn't take traditional MC output.

[@brentf6563]

90% of the Scout upgrades discussed on this video are for the tonearm. You can change the tonearm on the Basis for better performance.

[@LetThereBeSound1]

But there are many others not discussed in the video, such as different feet, different motors, upgraded platter (which this one already has), and last but not least the improvement of adding VTA "on the fly" ability which not every tonearm you could mount on the Basis would even offer. And that's before we get into the business that you can further tailor the sound by experimenting with different interconnect cables for the arm because of the RCA Junction box. So that too is an "on the fly" type upgrade over any tonearm with a captive wire. Respectfully.

[@keithkohley9855]

Scott, is there a better expression of rhythm, pitch and emotion with the new player?

[@ThePressingMatters]

Well that exactly what I'll be looking for. It will be up and running on Sunday. Will let you know!

[@jodygoeler586]

Any chance I can persuade Oswaldo to relocate to CT?

[@ThePressingMatters]

I'm telling you, they need to clone him!

[@LetThereBeSound1]

Haha! Believe or not I also do house calls! LOL. No seriously, I am honored I get flown all over the country when there is not a competent turntable specialist available in a given city. Sure, it's going to cost you, but depending on the level of your high-end rig, what I charge for my services is well worth it.

[@ptg01]

I am alway leery on unipivot.... seems so fragile...

[@ThePressingMatters]

I haven't yet have a chance to use it but yes I have the same concern. I think the cueing lever will be in use always. People get used to it.

[@LetThereBeSound1]

It isn't fragile and it sounds better than most traditional gimbal tonearms. Don't knock it until you try it.

[@wickedexile4531]

The motor controllers really only functions as a convenience to change speeds. Think about the physics, a 20 pound platter rotating at speed driven by a rubber belt, the inertia of the mass rotating will not be effected by any micro speed adjustments from the controller at this level of motor. Even with a tachometer for feedback this motor and controller can never produce any effect on performance other than convenience. Spend your money elsewhere in my opinion. I’ve owned various vpi tables since 89, they are wonderful flexible tables. You only need the correct pulley and motor pairing to achieve an accurate speed. Good luck

[@ThePressingMatters]

Wow thank you for your comment. I was a bit surprised but what you say makes sense. I suppose there is a minor refinement in sound when the speed locks in, but it should happen with the inertia of the massive platter. I'll be quite happy if that's the case!

[@wickedexile4531]

@@ThePressingMatters the arbiter of refinement is the platter size driven by a belt. Any further refinement would be very costly, more than the cost of your system itself on this table. You would need to redesign the drive system entirely. You’ll love the table and the ability to adjust VTA for optimum maximization of pressings. This adjustment once you learn what to listen for is a revelation. ENJOY

[@ThePressingMatters]

Thanks for elaborating on it and for the vote of confidence for this!

[@vinylrules4838]

I will be curious on your thoughts of the VPI once working properly. I haven't listened to a VPI in about 20 years. Every time I heard a VPI at the dealer showroom, I found them to be uninvolving (boring.) Maybe it was equipment matching, but I seem to doubt that as I heard them in different systems and different rooms. Maybe it was just me. 🤷‍♂️

[@ThePressingMatters]

@@vinylrules4838 I certainly hope that won't be the case for me, but I'm open to either possibility.