Could “Mini-Schengen” Zones Solve the EU’s Migration Crisis?

[@Electricsou1]

Protecting The exterior borders and coasts would be a better idea than restricting rights of europeans

[@fesyuki]

@@Electricsou1 and you think they will stop at any "European" passing?

[@rustyrench4278]

The current system is not working

[@q1337]

@@rustyrench4278 I wonder why...

[@purpledevilr7463]

If they’ll actually do it.

[@RetroRadianceLight]

If they tried restricting exterior borders, they would immediately be hit with accusations of "racism and being exclusionary." it's all about individual countries trying to protect their own border interests without being labeled as bigots or American.

[@rubenrathgeber458]

Schengen is maybe the biggest achievement of the eu next to peace. As someone who grew up in a border region, this is just unimaginable.

[@RobespierreThePoof]

It is an important achievement but it's no good unless it actually helps to prevent resurgent nationalism. Right now, it isn't doing that. So, it is critical to do whatever it takes to squash the nationalist right. One way to do that is to placate their concerns.

[@rubensrides]

As someone who is also called Ruben, I totally agree.

[@theprinceofawesomeness]

I only been outside my country once and live next to the midle of my country, yeat i belive Shengen shpuld be preserve since there are invisable benefits that still effects people like me second hand.

[@Marc_lux]

I agree, coming from a border region too. We need to help the border countries safeguard the external borders. They are asking for it for years now.

[@rubenrathgeber458]

@@rubensrides amazing

[@CyrusBluebird]

To me this seems like treating a symptom instead of solving the root cause for the problem.

[@fesyuki]

@@CyrusBluebird you're starting to understand the far right

[@serebii666]

It is, because it would just create knock-ons for the prior transit countries. Migrants wanting to get to Germany from Austria or France, through Italy, would still be stuck in those other countries, and given enough time, will eventually penetrate into Germany regardless.

[@kims4149]

Because it is

[@hughjass1044]

Agree, but it seems nobody wants to tackle the root causes.... Or in many cases, even admit there are root causes.

[@espvp]

Genuinely curious, what is the root cause to you?

[@Mypromiselive]

Would totally undermine the European Union Idea/Vision..

[@fesyuki]

That's the plan

[@HeliumFreak]

The vision was never to get overrun by immigrants coming here and trying to impose their culture on us. The goal was to bring them here and for them to assimilate to be like us

[@Alexander-yb1zc]

Brexit was the canary in the coal mines on these issues the EU failed to take seriously, leading to all this.

[@fesyuki]

@@Alexander-yb1zc Brexit happened because of dumb nationalism the british people actually hate Brexit so much

[@serebii666]

@@Alexander-yb1zc Hardly. Much to the disappointment of Brexiters, there were no further waves of EU-xits and even the most traditionally Euroceptic parties, like RN in France or Fratelli in Italy have no desire to follow in the UK's suicide. Unlike the so-called "Global Britain" the rest of the EU understand their outsize influence on the world is reliant on the normative regulatory nature of the EU and as a large single market, which in turn is predicated on integration of these much smaller countries and markets together.

[@Le.soleil]

They’d rather destroy the whole point of the EU instead of just push the boats back and reinforce Greece’s, Spain’s and Bulgaria’s borders🤡

[@fesyuki]

@@Le.soleil these are the far right parties many people voted for

[@NederlandsTransatlanticus]

Every country wants to profit from human trafficking, but no country wants to be the final destination.

[@NederlandsTransatlanticus]

Aside from that, when the Schengen Zone was created, nothing has been learned nothing from the internal migration problems of the US, Russia and China. Texans hate Californians moving in, in China they've the hukou system, banning people to move to the cities. Russia is still using a derivative of the Soviet propiska in which internal migration is limited as well.

[@kuil]

Morality vs reality… I hope someday the whole world can be a ‘Schengen Area’. Border controls DO limit freedom AND economic growth. But still in this modern day, wealthy countries cannot accept large amounts of culturally dissimilar people from impoverished places without major cultural clashes, and draining resources from welfare systems.

[@creatoruser736]

@@kuil "Culturally dissimilar" This is why Europeans are inferior. You're so concerned with "culture" and keeping away anyone not like you. Not too long ago the Polish were considered too different from Western Europeans. Now it's non-Euros trying to come in. The problem is inability to assimilate, why is caused by Euros refusing to think anyone who doesn't look like them can act like them. No one is like you, everyone is different, but you only care about welfare when someone you think is undeserving of it is taking from it. What's next, they're eating pets? This mindset that maintaining culture by excluding anyone different is why Europe will always lose.

[@spaghettiisyummy.3623]

This would make the EU a little pointless.

[@extrapolate]

You do realize Schengen isn’t the only thing that makes up the EU agreement right? Love confident ignorants like you, keep trying

[@askosefamerve]

​@@extrapolate Read carefully and see how they said "a little".

[@MoempfLP]

There are non-eu-members participating in Schengen. Therefore, it would be pointless already.

[@DummyUseless-er3dn]

This wouldn’t make EU pointless but it would make Schengen pointless

[@terminatora1249]

Nah, you still have the economic zone, the free movement, the common policies, close cooperation, EU funds and massive projects like rail baltica. In Bulgaria we are still not really in Schengen, which does cost us a lot, but that's not even close to making the EU useless for us.

[@davidwebb4904]

If Frontex did their job, we wouldn’t be in this crisis. All EU countries should supply manpower and or money, to patrol the external border of the EU.

[@Wonder478]

Frontex is underfunded and limited by law as to what it can do unfortunately. If the EU had the balls to let Frontex do their job freely we would indeed be in a better place right now.

[@westrim]

@@Wonder478 What would that look like to you?

[@Wonder478]

@@westrim Well definitely not violating the Schengen aggrement to benefit your own country that's number one. Also our cities wouldn't be flooded with illegal immigrants from countries that are NOT at war but try to take advantage of the situation to come to the EU freely. Our taxes wouldn't be used to give those illegal immigrants money but instead be used to benefit the economy and the people of the country (Many immigrants have been caught with more than 2000 euros btw). Less fear for terrorist attacks on our cities and lower crime rates. Less people who don't respect a countries culture and try to force islam into the EU (Which is already happening). And many other reasons beyond those.

[@SzymonPmc]

the issue isn't monetary, but rather legal. border guards legally cannot do anything - if they get shot at they literally cannot shoot back

[@nothereandthereanywhere]

@@SzymonPmc How many shootings were there?

[@PbPomper]

I live in The Netherlands near the German border and I have to deal with "security" measures as well. Totally ineffective! There are probably a hundred border crossings to Germany. They only check the major ones. There's only massive traffic jams and damage to the economy.

[@user-jq8fw6yb6s]

And seriously, a terrorist who really wants to get in can just go through fields, this kind of populist idea is perfectly stupid.

[@wensdyy6466]

I agree, last weekend i was helping with taking samples of moss in Czechia near German bordres-got lost in tought and after a few hours we (a group of about 20 people) found ourselves in Germany. Unless they fence off whole border it is really easy for even such a large group of people to cross borderes (and not even notice-and we did not even go trough any rough terrain, it was a nice walk-and a lot of samples for us that will take weeks to analyze in the lab)

[@XY-uc1tw]

it's just propaganda from the current leftist German Government. They do like they are controlling the borders (faking it), because %81 of German citizens want to see a change in migration politics.

[@freebozkurt9277]

You can thank your liberal politicians for inviting the immigrants and to block and harrass those countries, especially Hungary, who does protect the external borders.

[@martinytcz1762]

@@wensdyy6466 No need to go as far as fields, just go to obscure and local rail lines (and road borders). For example, the RB T7 Chomutov (CZ)->Cranzahl (DE), RB U28 Děčín (CZ)->Rumburk (CZ) via Bad Schandau (DE), RB95 Cheb (CZ)->Marktredwitz (DE). I have used all of these a fair bit recently and never seen any of them checked. Most cross-border buses are also never checked unless they go through the most frequented borders, for example the 398 Teplice (CZ)->Altenberg (DE) or the +401 Großschönau (DE)->Ebersbach (DE) via Varnsdorf (CZ)/Seifhennersdorf (DE)/Rumburk (CZ) are basically never checked.

[@Rasaevire]

Never. Beef up frontex. Unity over Division. Secure the continent and stop this asylum bs. Help the countries that needed and fight those that allow them to pass to weaken us. We are no help to the world when divided.

[@extrapolate]

Stopping the asylum isn’t enough anymore. Mass deportations are needed of all Islamists and any migrants that refuse to integrate, including revoking citizenship

[@Jajalaatmaar]

Frontex can't do shit. It got shat on by the EU parliament for doing pushbacks. In the current system 56% of asylum seekers are fraudsters of which 21% leave the EU. The whole asylum system is built on this and you can't do fck all about it without changing the human rights treaties or stopping people from entering the EU (which is illegal under said treaties).

[@Patrick-y4d1z]

The problem is that they need a "return to sender" method. To effectively force migrants back out of Europe. Migrant found in Germany? Send them back to Austria. Not from Austria? Send them back to Croatia. Basically push them all the way back to the original European frontier. Then that European country just dumps them on the doorstep of the non European country they crossed in through.

[@ShadowForever-qh4ox]

100%

[@dannyarcher6370]

This guy: Beef up Frontex. Also this guy: Unity Over Divsion. The left are not very intelligent at all.

[@SenseAddict]

Mini Schengen means Schengen is failed

[@cobzzy3878]

It has

[@agbook2007]

Bingo.

[@XY-uc1tw]

if something not working properly anymore, and you can not fix it, than you better change it. "Mini-Schengen" is a good idea but i do not think the Southern Europe allow this.

[@longiusaescius2537]

Kpop eugh

[@TheFezTheLord]

How about secure eu borders, nah that's too difficult a decision for our milk toast politicians

[@serebii666]

They don't want to spend the extra money needed to reinforce FRONTEX

[@fesyuki]

@@TheFezTheLord milk toast politicians... Well that's one way to describe it

[@regarded9702]

It is spelt milquetoast.

[@soundscape26]

​@@serebii666"Milk toast" is funny ngl

[@TheFezTheLord]

@@serebii666 Gonna spend all that money policing crime instead now

[@thepax2621]

Had Europe been faster with GEAS (2026) and more stringent, none of this would be an issue 🤷🏻‍♀️ The outer-borders need to be protected, in order to guarantee free movement through the inner-borders

[@cryptobitez6090]

Had Europeean powers like France and the uk stopped destabilising foreign governments this wouldn't be an issue

[@tudorg22]

what's GEAS

[@rafail2303]

The EU will do anything but admit and adress the root of the problem

[@xlukas93]

By eu you mean germans? Because poland has no problem to call a spade a spade

[@goose9515]

the root cause of the problem is instability in Syria, Libya and other countries in Middle East/North Africa, but solving that instability would involve sending lots of money to those countries so thats why the eu doesnt want to solve it like that

[@millevenon5853]

​@@goose9515it's easy to close the borders. Just look at Hungary and Poland.

[@Loostyc]

​@@millevenon5853not quite. Immigrants don't want to stay in Poland or Hungary so it's quite easy to get rid of them.

[@allenk6373]

@@goose9515 many fo them caused by west and US

[@jezusbloodie]

This will be the end of Europe if it came to pass. We need to strengthen the external border, and seeing how 99% of international refugees are in their relative first neighbouring nations, help create infrastruction in and coperation with the countries that border the Schengen Zone along these routes (if cooperation can be achieved)

[@nicobruin8618]

Indeed. And cooperation should certainly be achievable with a bit of carrot and stick. Development aid and favourable trade deals if cooperative, economic sanctions if not.

[@Pvemaster2]

@@nicobruin8618 Are you two new to this world? We give BILLIONS a year in "cooperation". The problem is most of the world is corrupt af and nothing improves.

[@Jajalaatmaar]

Can't do that without reforming the treaties. Let's just do that.

[@Patrick-y4d1z]

Europe is a continent. Not the same thing as the EU

[@jezusbloodie]

@@Patrick-y4d1z in this context, for most normal people, Europe equates the EU

[@spaza811]

That Dutch Mini-Schengen looks like a modern Holy Roman Empire!

[@MilkywayWarrior1618]

Not holy

[@MilkywayWarrior1618]

neither Roman

[@MilkywayWarrior1618]

nor empire.

[@Togangehver14dag]

Heiliges römisches Reich deutsch-niederländischer Nation!

[@diogonunes1608]

They're coming back!

[@matthewgubbins8515]

Irregular migration isn't that just illegal migration by a different name

[@ComplainingIsRecreation]

Yeah, it's called propaganda.

[@soundscape26]

No, illegal carries a penal connotation and asylum seekers are not criminalised for that, only if their applications are rejected and they don't leave

[@wasgehtsiedasan1920]

​@soundscape26 in Germany not leaving is not only not illegal but they also get paid

[@scifino1]

Nope. Illegal migration is breaking laws, irregular migration is breaking expectations. So that's a superset.

[@scifino1]

@@wasgehtsiedasan1920 AND THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO WORK! That's the kicker, isn't it? If you've only got a Duldung, you basically have no legal way to make money, except for the social-welfare. You also are not allowed to leave the federal state you're in, so leaving is actually illegal then.

[@dermittelfinger5903]

That's precious. If Austria closes its border down then Italy gets strained because they cant send them off to Germany? How about you send every migrant you dont want back to where they came from? That is precisely the problem we have with schengen. Noone cares to secure the outer border because everyone thinks that they can just offload the unwanted migrants to a different EU country.

[@RetroRadianceLight]

And what's stopping those migrants from coming right back around? As for not proposing strengthening external borders? The northern Euro countries don't want to be viewed as racists or bigots. Look at how much backlash and international condemnation the border countries face when they tried to send back the tidal waves of migrants Countries like the Netherlands and Germany want to be seen as these open and progressive countries without having to deal with the extra baggage that comes with being all inclusive. Hense the internal line drawing without talking about the base issues.

[@kapsi]

@@RetroRadianceLight What backlash and condemnation are you talking about?

[@abeeceedee1842]

​@@RetroRadianceLightthere have been no punishments for border countries turning backigrants. It's just more convenient for them to send them off to the north.

[@GalahadLazuli]

Oh,​@@RetroRadianceLight... what's stopping them from turning right back around? The promise that should they again attempt to enter illegally, they'll just be sent back again. As many times as it needs for them to finally understand that they need to put the effort into legally migrating to whichever country they want to go to. Every tolerated or accepted illegal immigrant is an insult to those who do their due diligence.

[@XY-uc1tw]

Leftist parties in EU do not want to send anybody back, and home countries of illegal migrants are not accepting them either. It will not work..

[@19Szabolcs91]

Terrible idea and a total destruction of the single best part of the EU.

[@Patrick-y4d1z]

Is it? What does it stop exactly? Is it really so inconvenient to show ID to cross into the next country? Doesn't cost anything. But massively increases security.

[@19Szabolcs91]

@@Patrick-y4d1z Are you insane? Yes it does cost, quite a lot in fact, as the wait time can be hours. Time is money, not to mention when you travel with small children and/or only have a day for a trip to somewhere that happens to be in a neighbouring country, it DOES matter when you may or may not have to wait in a line for 2 hours, in both directions.

[@Patrick-y4d1z]

@@19Szabolcs91 Ah no, two whole hours of waiting, how would you ever cope with a minor delay like that. That's clearly worth mass migration collapsing the economy and housing market, while skyrocketing crime. Damn, should've told us sooner about the two hour wait.

[@19Szabolcs91]

@@Patrick-y4d1z The fact that you think two hours of waiting every single time you want or need to cross a border is nothing, clearly shows how out of touch are you with reality or how entitled and/or devoid of empathy you are. People's lives are set up this way. A lot of people work in neighbouring countries. And smaller countries would be disproportionally screwed. People's personal lives too, but also when transport is longer, guess what, prices increase. Petrol consumption increases. Pollution increases, and the list goes on and on. Mass migration and crime have their solutions. Schengen was working for decades, these are all new problems, and you are not supposed too throw out the baby with the bathwater.

[@Patrick-y4d1z]

@@19Szabolcs91 My dude, Schengen absolutely hasn't been working for decades, and a couple of hours really isn't a big deal. But as you're so concerned, there are technological solutions. For example, at the airport, when re-entering the country, you scan your passport and facial recognition will automatically let you through. Takes literally seconds to get through.

[@leonm6258]

This is the stupidest idea they put out yet

[@Iter_fire_guy]

explodes violently out of confusion

[@FALLINGJIGSAW]

@nicolaswirtz Thinking everyone different shade from you can't be a bad person is indeed very rasist

[@longiusaescius2537]

@nicolaswirtz HBD is real

[@TheMercyBeat]

That is totally pointless.

[@ZakBanbury]

"Apart from Cyprus and Ireland" -> still highlights Cyprus

[@pramuseq]

and acts like Bulgaria and Romania didn't exist

[@Salv2137]

Oh look, german leadership being clown for 5926480274th time

[@lucone2937]

There's been the Nordic Passport Union that allows citizens of the Nordic countries-Iceland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and Finland-to travel and reside in another Nordic country without any travel documentation (e.g. a passport or national identity card) or a residence permit since 1952. Usually it is recommened to have a national identity card with you just in case if you need to prove e.g. the Finnish citizenship in other Nordic countries.

[@Kamikaze-pe4bh]

I had a trip to germany from denmark yesterday. I was mentally prepared for the scary border controlls only for me to get into germsny without realising. There wasnt even a single policeman or a border at app

[@AlphaHorst]

that is because germany never reintroduced a border controll, in reintroduced border checks... Which most countries in the Eu never stopped doing. The difference is quite simple. a Control stops every single car and checks pasports and maybe does an inspection. A check means that the borders are being watched with major arteries seeing a constant police presence. Austri does that on every single crossing it has with germany for decades. Multiple german states used their internal police force to do that job (Brandenburg and Saxony did ever since poland joined and the Federal police stopped doing controls and checks, because stolen cars and bycilcles just so happened to always be found in polish border towns) It was a move designed to sound as populist as possible while doing as little as needed. The few spots where traffic is actually impacted are almost certainly done on purpose to give the news a story. It is also funny how many EU countries complained about the move despite germany following all the steps for sth which they can do whenever without telling anyone because the Schengen agreement does not prohibit checks, just controls. Hence why essentially anyone who is not Orban has instantly shut up the moment they saw what was actually being done.

[@theChaosKe]

I dont think germany had denmark in mind when they closed its borders. The main stress came from other routes. Its not really practictal to begin with but more of a political sign against the lack of solidarity when it comes to the disfunctional dublin system, as most migrants want to go germany.

[@XY-uc1tw]

it's just propaganda from the current leftist German Government. They do like they are controlling the borders (faking it), because %81 of German citizens want to see a big change in migration politics.

[@Player-re9mo]

As a Romanian we want full Schengen access! We are tired of compromises. It's the fault of Western countries for inviting illegal immigrants in the first place! Why do we need to pay for their mistakes?

[@oknad2]

Inviting? You’re joking right?

[@frankhuurman3955]

Let's not do the whole East vs West Europe thing(it's 2024, my best mate is Belarusian and I have great love for the city of Constanța in Romania which I revisit every now and then), I'm pretty sure most of the Western countries populations also didn't want this since it puts them on the backfoot in terms of housing and lower salaries. I can imagine people voting for Merkel also didn't expect her to do her "wir schaffen das" after the elections. Let's work together and fix the issue!

[@vincenzoc.1781]

@@frankhuurman3955 Ja, sie hat uns gezwungen diese Leute zu akzeptieren, auch wenn die Mehrheit dagegen war... Ich kann nicht glauben, dass sie so viele Wahlen gewonnen hat, während sie das Land in die aktuelle Krise katapultiert hat... Entweder Energie, Migration oder öffentliche Dienstleistungen, sie hat gescheitert. Als ein 21 Jährige bin ich enttäuscht, weil ich nie die Möglichkeit hatte für diese Sachen zu wählen.

[@vincenzoc.1781]

I know Romanians who blame Italy for receiving migrats like if Italy had chosen to receive them... If they randomly show up at you shores there's literally nothing you can do, you can't just send them back because of international law... Romania has the blessing of not having to deal with this problem first-hand

[@askosefamerve]

​@@vincenzoc.1781It's not a blessing, either. You think all those people will stay in Italy after they fill up there?

[@boundlessvoyageur5302]

Isn’t that just having borders

[@fesyuki]

@@boundlessvoyageur5302 no it's just a "me having my favie bestie you get africans"

[@soundscape26]

Not necessarily, borders are mostly sovereignty markers, those never ceased to exist

[@abeeceedee1842]

​@@fesyukinot really, any country is allows to extradite or deport non-citizens.

[@HaveiorLP]

I don't think that's a good idea. Protect exterior borders. Assist the southern countries if necessary. Most important think imo is bringing rescued people in the Mediterranean Sea back to their point of origin.

[@relo999]

The issue is that hasn't worked even remotely, and when southern nations actually do try to do effective exterior border protection (like pushbacks) a shitload of people get their panties in a twist. And on top of that we have no real way of sending back people, as the country of origin or their bordering nation (in the case of war) don't actually want them. The only real solution is not getting them here in the first place but for loads of political movements, philosophies, parties and the media that's a big no-go. The only other solution that does allow them here is some unified prison island for rejected migrants that they can only leave if they willingly go back to their own country. But that obviously also has their fair share of issues.

[@lordthaemathy7647]

the easiest solution is to not rescue them

[@XY-uc1tw]

The Southern Europe do not care about this issue as long as illegal migrants want to go West Europe. West Europe can secure their own border instead of Southern Europe's...

[@longiusaescius2537]

@lordthaemathy7647 Real

[@gamebuster800]

Everyone in EU: We don't want immigrants. EU: Here's more immigrants I dont get it! hah

[@goose9515]

Politicians aren't stupid, they know a lot of anti migration fears are dumb (and partly inspired by racism) because EU countries birth rates are below replacement, so they know they need the people

[@knarfxd4071]

Schengen failed because the outside border was not strong enough. The weaker the internal borders, the stronger the outside border needs to be. (But the Eurocrats had different plans...)

[@Chrissy717]

Schengen will fail because enough people were convinced that migrants are the problem while the EU faces a bazillion other, way way more important issues that don't even get talked about.

[@familyguygaming_]

European politicians wanted the cheap labor. They knew that if they just gaslighted their populations with “attempts” to stop “irregular migration,” that would be satisfactory to keep their people subdued. And now that the cheap labor is already in Europe, it’s too late

[@AleksBachi]

I've just wanted to write the same thing.

[@CuteSkyler]

It's so stupid that no one in politics actually points out the absolute gargantuan elephant in the room but instead tiptoes around the problem.

[@Andrii87]

While criticizing Poland which keeps borders safe.

[@rehmanratul2714]

They are Still this day Hypocrites who only sent workers to Germany but still then being Eurosceptic .

[@Sammyjane72x]

I speak as a UK Romanian dual national. One one hand Romania is likely going to get full scale Schengen membership along with Bulgaria by the end of the year. On one hand you could call that progress. If the Schengen area doesn't actually work in practice then I can't see the point. Mini Schengen is a half way house and is not exactly the spirit of Schengen at all. Either it works or it doesn't. Either we keep it (with the opt outs) or it's scrapped

[@AttilaAsztalos]

Austria just made it explicitly clear that they continue to refuse to let us in indefinitely. "We are on the right WAY, but FAR from its end", is their attitude. As in, "not in this decade, chumps!"

[@XY-uc1tw]

Schengen was working very well until Southern Europe joins....

[@fedethefico]

No, it's a dumb idea. The Union will need to strengthen Frontex, that's the only way.

[@RobespierreThePoof]

If the cm public anxiety about migration is rational then strengthening Frontex will do it. If it is based on hysteria and disinformation, then no measures will satisfy them.

[@XY-uc1tw]

Frontex is bad idea. If every country in EU invest that much money an man power, they could easly secure their own borders rather than only southern Europe.

[@Stoddardian]

@@RobespierreThePoof Who decides when it's rational? Leftist like you?

[@pikapi6993]

What about the gangs that are already here committing crimes in several EU countries because it's so easy to cross the border?

[@fedethefico]

@@pikapi6993 1) it's not easier to get into Europe than it is to get in the US, Canada, India or Brazil - the opposite is true. 2) if you think that most crime, especially organized crime, comes from migrants I guess you have never heard of the mafia or dozens of locally bred criminal organizations. Most crimes, especially those that have the most devastating impacts on European society, is done by Europeans.

[@MikPisani]

This is incredibly well researched. Kudos

[@SavolaxMitsu]

Sorry, but your thumbnail is really stupid, Nordic countries has been in passport union since 1952. If there will ever been mini schengen areas, Nordic and Baltics will been in same group.

[@patrickuotinen]

Nordic Passport Union has existed and worked since 1952, way before the Schengen area, and I expect it to remain even if Schengen area fails.

[@jameskruczek9635]

Letting in migrants from outside the Shengen area and wondering why it doesn't work

[@Togangehver14dag]

The Nordic countries already have a free movement deal that predates Schengen.

[@Adir-Yosef]

i honestly prefer no schengen (due to how it effects the poorer nations in it's zone) but if it does exist then at least protect the external border so the problems don't become WORSE

[@Alex.af.Nordheim]

How about we put more effort into protecting our external borders instead?

[@ThijquintNL]

I recieved my allience poster yesterday🙌

[@lastsovietspy]

everybody know the main problem…

[@longiusaescius2537]

@lastsovietspy shalom

[@Richard1A2B]

0:33 Your map shows Cyprus in the Schengen zone, Cyprus is not a Schengen member.... it wouldn't be TLDR EU if it didn't get something wrong about the EU, would it?

[@lassamaria]

Cyprus is just a floating island of garbage to this guy

[@paulgauci5626]

Strengthen the external borders. Don't bring back internal borders.

[@gasparedecaro5780]

Italy was also a member of the European Economic Community

[@cxar71]

Yes, but we were not part of the original 1985 Schengen treaty, only Benelux plus France and Germany were. We adhered at a later state, in 1990.

[@SiegfriedSTM]

Doesn't matter whether the zones/areas are large or small. They have to control the outer border or it doesn't work.

[@19932603A]

Or, you know, just work on enforcing border security in frontier countries in the Mediterranean instead of destroying the Schengen? It's all fine and dandy when something works but the moment something needs fixing people want to jump boat? Crazy.

[@FernandoPerez3h.]

In my opinion, I think the problem is the EU's external border, which isn't well protected. A stronger bárrier, like an electrified wáll could help prevent individuals from certain ideologies, who oppose liberal rights and gender equality, from entering.

[@FDafieno]

Apart from the eastern border with Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus, the rest of the border is on bodies of water. So how could a “wall” help?

[@Alexander-yb1zc]

Which certain ideologies specifically?

[@digojez]

​@@Alexander-yb1zcI think it's the one that starts with an N and ends with an I

[@fesyuki]

@@FDafieno he means shooting the boats

[@fearghal10]

Right cause building an "electrified wall" around Europe to keep Muslims out sounds positively liberal and enlightened.

[@outofideas42]

TLDR treating Ireland as if its part of the UK in its graphics *again*.

[@cxar71]

No, the error in the map you refer to is not to deny the "blue" color to Ireland, but granting it to Cyprus which, just like Ireland, is not a member of the Schengen treaty.

[@davidty2006]

Ireland is part of british isles common travel area soooo.

[@jimbomacers]

Ireland isn’t in Schengen,

[@NAYRUthunder99]

I don't know what scares me the most - the fact that so many people here in the comments do not realize that "empower Frontex" and "secure the southern border" basically amounts to sinking ships, or the fact that an unknown number of them DO realize it and want exactly that.

[@SweetPup_Gaming]

Once upon a time, these were called "National Borders".

[@fesyuki]

I remember those they would be reformed every 10 mins because europe is an unstable mess with many villains

[@serebii666]

"National borders" is itself a very modern concept. The pass-card, the direct antecedent of the passport (having most of one's information aside from a picture) is only as old as 1850, and that only came into being to regulate the relatively free travel between the states of the German Confederation, which also at the time had their own common currency and customs union, the Zollverein. Passports only became a thing after WW1. Europe has spent most of it's history as relatively porous and murkily defined borders, and during the recent times where borders became hard and fortified, that coincided with enmity and war.

[@soundscape26]

Borders still exist in their most important capacity... try to cross one and claim sovereignty over that piece of land

[@AlphaHorst]

they still are called that and still function like that. You shoudl read more than just stupid peoples propaganda

[@DukeOfTheYard]

​@@serebii666State borders are not at all a modern concept, they exist for thousands of years. Actually that's the one thing all states throughout the times have in common: they all had borders. You never could just walk in, you had to be allowed in

[@user-tm2bq2oz7l]

1:59 And Romania and Bulgaria via land... You bothered to mention all the microstates, but not them?

[@lassamaria]

Sorry, according to his map there, Romania and Bulgaria are not 'the whole of the EU' 😅 Another channel with glaring misinformation, moving on...

[@4tech404]

Mini-Schengen is like the rich going behind gated communities while the rest of the countries on the coast will get the same migrant issues but even worse.

[@xlukas93]

Yes, the rich ones who invited their new friends, and once they arrived, they are too busy to meet them.

[@XY-uc1tw]

yes, that was real point of EU, before Soeuthern Europe joins.

[@viperV10]

No, as Lukas mentioned. This will reduce induced demand since it would be extraordinarily difficult to reach countries offering better life prospects. Not many would try to enter EU just to be stuck in Greece -Romaina region.

[@4tech404]

@@viperV10 after migrants already reached the continent, the game of over. It's relative easy to find a cross the continent to go to Germany. No country has that much police to guard every road and forest and even if they would, what will they do against 100+ groups ? Poland had to build a fence and deploy the army and that's a tiny border. Not to even assume some border guards will be corrupt or smuglers would find new routes.

[@longiusaescius2537]

@4tech404 concrete pillar fence, deport & capital for smugglers. EU should RICO the migrant NGOs

[@tnickknight]

Then every single truck leaving the mini area should be inspected at great lengths

[@cxar71]

Yes, de facto ending free flow of goods, and the whole concept of the EU with that. 😅

[@Ugapiku]

I actually like that Baltics + Finland map you did on the thumbnail 😮👍

[@SavolaxMitsu]

I don't. Nordic countries has been Passport Union (open borders & free movement) since 1952.

[@davianoinglesias5030]

Or just secure the borders rather than risk a break up of the EU

[@johnguzmandiaz]

The Dutch would cry to their government the moment the summer comes and they need to show their passports to go to France and Spain XD

[@jaaput]

No we would not. Speak just for yourself please.

[@esemachete5108]

Who wants to go to France anyway , its basically turned in to Islamistan

[@XenusSerathiiIcelon]

I'm Dutch and no, we don't care about that. Having your passport ready is part of preparing for your vacation. Everyone can do it easily and showing it for a check is no effort at all.

[@rehmanratul2714]

​@@XenusSerathiiIcelon Ah Brit's Said something similar . I wonder why they freaked after reaching Spain . Anyway I would hope Germany won't compromise with Netherlands with you guy's so called mini Schengen to reach Austria to ski . A concept of Mini Schengen is itself a Disgrace to our Franco German Alliance

[@Peleski]

They need to do something. As a recent traveller in Germany, the major city centres have become unrecognisable.

[@EffMTee]

What did it look like?

[@Peleski]

@@EffMTee A migrant camp with old buildings instead of tents

[@felixnimo]

One correction: Germany has always had Czechs at their Eastern border 😬🙈🇨🇿

[@That_Darned_Imperialist]

You're telling me a more compartmentalized and regional EU is a better more efficient system? Damn thats crazy someone should tell them that in Brussels.

[@kira-oi2ck]

More efficient? No. It will have negative economical consequences due to transport taking longer, border checks etc. How is that mkre efficient

[@That_Darned_Imperialist]

Yes but it is preferable to this bullshit Euro-National dichotomy

[@longiusaescius2537]

@kira-oi2ck how can Singapore do it then???

[@Alexander-yb1zc]

Lets be real here you have 27 countries each with different needs for success, some need immigration others need financial freedom. The EU experiment needs reform to be more efficient before there is a fundemental fracture as these differences start to wedge the union apart.

[@fesyuki]

These are all economic problems easily solvable by anti corruption campaigns and right management which the eu sourly lacks and trust me the far right does not want Schengen

[@PhthaloJohnson]

That assumes that what one country needs does not directly compete with what anther one wants, which is just not the case in practice. Part of why the EU exists in the first place is to mediate the different agenda between countries so that we don't become a fractured blob fighting among ourselves or have big countries in and outside Europe completely dictate what smaller countries do.

[@Alexander-yb1zc]

@PhthaloJohnson The issue is the complex bureaucracy of the EUmeans that issues are not resolved efficiently. We should get rid of the excess and just have the EU parliament.

[@PrexXyx]

​@@Alexander-yb1zcThe EP is the most useless organisation of all, without any real power. The Commission and the Council are the most important bodies

[@term164]

The EU either needs to federalize or it will either slowly fail with the current system or fall apart and the EU counties will lose most of their power on the global stage. I wouldn't mind a US like system even if that means giving up our autonomy as a country. Rather live in a prosperous EU than a failing smaller country. But that's just me I guess.

[@tnightwolf]

2:34 and what a fkn brilliant assembly of great countries without any kind of historical-background-bias to judge others...

[@manu82mv]

🤔 you keep forgetting Ireland in EU maps 😂 i realized about it in other videos too.

[@stefan-alexandruromanoschi8066]

hello guys, nice video, however a small mistake, Cypus is highlighted as Schenghen and is not.

[@dqdq4083]

The mini shengrn looks familiar

[@chm4gsc]

Oliver Laughland's video recently for the Guardian had him stopped on the road in Arizona and asked for his documents. He was travelling through the same country. Everyone seems to ask for documents now.

[@ImAltair1]

We need more funding for Frontex. Good border security around Schengen to limit migration flows would do more to fix this issue than scrapping what might be one of the biggest accomplishments of the EU.

[@m.p.baldnessdyslexic88]

The free movement inside the EU is what attracts tallent to the EU. Please don't kill it.

[@MidnightsFirefly]

Wait... I'm confused... If member states ultimately have final say over their own immigration policies (e.g. in Hungary's case), what was the actual hubbub with the UK "not having any control"? So the UK has always had control, even before Brexit? Genuinely confused here.

[@DennisTheInternationalMenace]

The E.U is trying to model Schengen after the U.S. But the difference is that E.U not also has trouble makers like Orban, But it has much more borders to cover than the U.S. Seems like the border agency isnt ether fully staffed or funded to handle the increase.

[@fesyuki]

@@DennisTheInternationalMenace that isn't even true free movement in the us is not that free there are borders, you realise that Europe as a whole is way smaller than half of America right? That would be like putting borders in every city

[@quasipopo]

Calling Orban the trouble maker in the context of border control after the past decade...

[@xlukas93]

Orban is a moron, but this is actually where he is right. If eu protected its outside borders, this would have never been an issue. Orban - unlike germans - was building wall around hungary, and was criticised by germans (the same germans who now want "mini-schengen") for protecting those borders. So who is at fault here? They are willing to destroy whole schengen just so they dont have to admit how this fool orbans was right at least once in his career.

[@Spacemongerr]

@@fesyuki Why are you comparing Europe and America? He is talking about EU/Schengen and USA. Yeah, Europe is way smaller than America, but it is irrelevant since Europe is not a political union and neither is America (France and Belarus are both in Europe, Canada and Brazil are both in America). If you meant to say EU/Schengen and USA, then you are still wrong. EU/Schengen countries are very close to being half the size of USA, not "way smaller than half". If you meant Europe and USA for some reason: Europe is slightly larger than USA.

[@fesyuki]

@@Spacemongerr I am saying that Schengen makes sense and is a good thing due to many reasons including europes small size travel there is not that time consuming compared to the states is what I mean because of the size

[@nnex6564]

This is annoying for paying tourists.

[@SuperTommox]

This is a bad idea. We should just strengthen the actual borders and let Europeans be free.

[@Stoddardian]

The problem is that there are already millions of non-Europeans here.

[@Stefanius058]

As a Dutch person, my country lost the plot long ago. They dont even know how to deal with organized crime, we had many governments fall apart because they were just that incompetent. So any plans coming from our politicians should just be ignored for the safety of all involved.

[@SeverusFelix]

Mini Schengen zones. You know, like. The Germany zone, the Luxembourg zone, the Andorra zone. . .

[@cxar71]

I want my mini-Schengen on my building's floor.... oh, no wait, I want it in my apartment, as I don't want to share it with the other one on the same floor! 🤭

[@SeverusFelix]

@@cxar71 if my roommates want to use the kitchen, they gotta go through customs like everyone else

[@theconqueringram5295]

They should just secure the external borders instead.

[@leonm6258]

Is the mini-schengen idea to keep the migrants inside that zone?

[@-i1007]

You forgot Romania and Bulgaria 2:01

[@GeorgeAndGeorge]

We romanians and bulgarians are never gonna fully join schengen are we?

[@alexandrub8786]

We will, 1 day before it is dissolved

[@NicolasHaufe]

​@@alexandrub8786Just Like ww1

[@TarebossT]

Da.

[@longiusaescius2537]

Romania W

[@EngineerRunner]

CORRECTION: the Vatican City isn't _technically_ in the Schengen Area, however they do not have any border controls

[@meth3rlence]

Band-aids to treat the symptoms rather than the root cause of the issues; sounds like typical EU behaviour tbh. You guys pretty clearly outline that the issue isn't at all with freedom of movement within the Schengen; it's freedom of movement from those outside the Schengen but it's not very "correct" to say so. Instead of dividing up into mini-Schengens or whatever other hairbrained scheme that won't work they come up with, all they need to do is dedicate resources to protecting the EU border -- presto! no need for inter-EU border controls. But, this is the EU we're talking about. Of course they won't do that. I wonder if in an alternate reality where Brexit didn't happen if they'd be going down this same path though? I feel like Brexit just hardened the EU's resolve to ignore every issue brought up by the Brexit campaign just to 'prove them wrong'...

[@harec666]

To be fair i understand It. While some countries are trying to solve the migration problems (still i think their actions are to small) other countries, like mine (Spain) are still impulsing an open border policy. Most of spanish don't understand that shit, but you cannot talk about it otherwise you are a racist. I guess this is not much different in many other members. Like seriously, the "ultra right" rise will pale in comparison to what it's to come. And the sadest part of this is that we will won't bothered by that considering the alternativa. All because god forbid we look racist for wanting to protect our borders(something that would actually prevent deaths of the dudes trying to cross the border by the way)

[@longiusaescius2537]

@harec666 Blame Cromwell and also Philip for losing Netherlands

[@wojtekpolska1013]

I know that Poland will always want keep an open border with Czech Republic and Slovakia. there is also no reason to close the border with Lithuania. the three baltic states will definitely have an open border as its very important for them, so if a mini-shengen happened, one of the regions would almost definitely be: Czech Rep., Slovakia, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia.

[@michaeljf6472]

Name one EU problem that wouldn't be solved by making EU more federalized

[@wvvwwvwvv]

Decentralization

[@Alexander-yb1zc]

*Gestures at European history*

[@Pasta_Pirate]

The idea of "the EU is showing signs of dysfunction so let's have more EU!" is a hard proposition to sell to the public. It may be right but I'm skeptical people will agree.

[@myname7937]

the gradual destruction of freedom of opinion in Germany

[@Alexander-yb1zc]

@Pasta_Pirate People won't agree, Brexit was a canary in the coal mines. Whilst we can endlessly talk about the duplicitous campaign in the end 30 million people don't vote to leave unless they have significant concerns the believe the EU failed to address.

[@sanderd17]

Mini Schengen, with a proposed border that runs just next to the town of Schengen. I would have thought it was sarcasm if I didn't know better.

[@caoryn]

Oh yes, let's make smaller EUs within the EU, and then even smaller EUs within these EUs! Wait, didn't we ... have exactly that ... before the EU? 😂😅 Edit: Added emojis to hopefully make the sarcasm and irony clearer.

[@longiusaescius2537]

Problem liberal?

[@caoryn]

If I'm misunderstanding the intent of your comment, please correct me - I think you were asking in a snarky way whether I have a problem with that, because I seem to be a liberal and as such pro-EU? (I legit am not sure whether you meant "Problem, liberal?" or not) If that's the case, you misunderstood me: I am pointing out that this basically goes back to being states with borders between them, kinda killing one of the "benefits" of being in the EU that were advertised to us so hard back before the referendum in Czechia (easy and free travel), which is very ironic. I probably should have made it clearer that I was being sarcastic, it doesn't carry well via text without smileys.

[@longiusaescius2537]

@@caoryn czechers

[@caoryn]

Indeed! 😇

[@TheSilver2001]

The idea of mini schengen is way to avoid creating a cohesive, united border and immgration policy. However, to do this the EU is going to have to end the unanimous decisions for qualified majorities

[@uusrano]

No, enforcing the existing law when it comes to EU border passing and the return and punishment of ppl who cross the border without passports, could save the shengen.

[@edipires15]

How do you punish people crossing borders without passports? Most of these people come from war-torn countries, and they have nothing to lose

[@kira-oi2ck]

I really doubt most of them are. They say they are to not be send to whatever their home country is

[@longiusaescius2537]

@edipires15 Morocco is not in war , chairo

[@agbook2007]

The problem is instituting Schengen exclusions not, suboptimal “mini-Schengen” areas…

[@fesyuki]

Yeah trust me it all starts like this, fortress europe will return

[@harec666]

Haha, as a citycent of castilla(castleland, in spain) i totally look for it.

[@longiusaescius2537]

@harec666 Castile uoooohhhh 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

[@You-mr3lo]

I don't think a mini-sheng will do much for the north-west. Unless our friends from Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg and Austria are eager for new residents. The Netherlands has 451 thousand housing applicants who cannot accommodate them. Then you would say "build houses". But with the emission measures, too much construction should not be allowed. The measures have been introduced because there are too many emissions in the Netherlands, but also because the Netherlands is the most densely populated country in the EU after Malta. This makes houses in Germany and Belgium more affordable. In the Netherlands, the average price for a house is 422,400 euros.

[@quantumyitian]

Irish resident here. Schengen borders are literally fraught with errors and formalities, which is why Ireland never implemented it.

[@mzple]

Ireland is an island though. Schengen borders are pretty irrelevant when you have to take a plane which requires security checks anyways to cross borders.

[@XY-uc1tw]

Irish people just enjoying EU without paying any price... Ireland is a very responsible a mini tax haven in EU!

[@thehoneybadgerusmc]

Ireland did the right thing. Same with the UK when they were in the EU.

[@vititom]

@@thehoneybadgerusmc The UK left and they couldn't be doing better. I heard the UK is living a new golden age of prosperity, peace, and no social unrest. They are a few steps away from the peak. Make Britain Great Again.

[@SavolaxMitsu]

LoL, dosen't look that this really help Irish whit they immigrants problems.

[@ShadowsDML]

Portugal is like, lol, we have to fly everywhere anyway

[@Bln-f9u]

DACHLI: (Germany, Austria, Liechtenstein, Switzerland) BENELUX: (Belgium, Netherlands, Luxemburg) NORDICS: (Denmark, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Iceland) BALTIC: (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania) VISEGRAD: (Czechia, Hungary, Poland, Slovakia) IBERIA: (Andorra, Portugal, Spain) ISLES: (Ireland, UK) SOUTH-EAST: (Bosnia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Romania, Serbia, Slovenia) Isolates: (Cyprus, France, Greece, Italy)

[@Echo_418]

Its almost as if having a shared outer border, without a shared immigration policy is a bad idea. Just like having a shared currency without having a shared financial policy is a bad idea.

[@hooch87]

So, basically the UK model? Its almost like the UK knew Schengen would lead to issues like this and everyone else ignored us in a poorly thought out rush to enforce 'EU values'.

[@soundscape26]

The UK is an island, it makes quite a difference.

[@dinmavric5504]

@@soundscape26 He can walk on water.

[@belstar1128]

in the uk there is no border control at all even with it being an island and not in the eu the uk lets anyone in even those rejected in the eu

[@k.j.hulander2204]

This video is pure speculation and right wing talking points. This channel needs to calibrate a better ai for gathering information because it currently has a very clear right-wing bias which would be less of a problem if they didn’t present ideas from these sources in such an unquestioning way.

[@longiusaescius2537]

@k.j.hulander2204 Trotsky is not right wing Comrade Stalin

[@prohacker5086]

We dont need morw decentralization, whole purpose of existince of EU is centralization of european neighbors to prevent different alliances from forming and waging conflict against each other. Do not divide EU

[@fesyuki]

A lot of people voted for the far right... This is just a beginning

[@RetroRadianceLight]

@@fesyuki Those people are biggots and shouldn't be allowed to participate in politics

[@prohacker5086]

@@fesyuki I don't think a union necessitates being leftist. We have a common enemy right at our borders: Russia. Whether it is left or right, everyone should oppose Russia

[@thostaylor]

'Ever closer Union' is what got us into this mess. What we need is the European Economic Community.

[@NAYRUthunder99]

​@@fesyukiif I think that the neo-fascists from the '60s desired a united fascistic Europe... It's incredible how the current far right makes me nostalgic of the old far right.

[@Grk149]

There cannot be free movement within EU if the external borders are not secure. You can dance around the fact all you want but that’s the reality of the situation. Unfortunately, the EU that was built for peace and stability and the prosperity of its people is nowadays anything but. They just refuse to deal with the problem and we can all pretend together that it doesn’t exist. Mini Schengen areas, open but really closed internal borders. East is west. War is peace.

[@simonblurton8009]

Boarders are annoying

[@dannyarcher6370]

0:29 - Laughing my arse off! The Abbott Protocol being adopted by Hungary is _chef's kiss._ 🤣🤣

[@WednesdayFin86]

Geert immediately starts splitting EU apart as was his agenda from the start.

[@longiusaescius2537]

Finally

[@goose9515]

Guy who hates brown people so much he's trying to destroy the most powerful trading bloc in the world

[@mohammedawad7841]

So instead of change the rules to be easy imigrate and start quickly working legally without receiving subsidizes until five years of working,they prefer end the Schengen area?

[@goose9515]

racism mostly, immigrants improve the economy if they're allowed to work