Could this company in the North East be making the highest efficiency heat pump?

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Last month I got to visit the Ebac factory in Newton Aycliffe, County Durham, where Ebac are making heat pumps, building on decades of experience of manufacturing dehumidifiers, water coolers, washing machines and much more to make, what they think, could be one of the highest efficiency heat pumps.
It was great to visit to see the new product, to see the production line and to hear all about their plans.
www.ebac.com/air-source-heat-...

[@examinerian]

I've had an Ebac dehumidifier for about 25 years - the far-left one in the quick pan around early on in this video. It's been brill, and the fact it was both locally made plus the quality were important points.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Love it! I’ve mentioned Ebac to a few people and they say something like ‘I’ve got an Ebac dehumidifier in my loft…!’ Maybe a vote of confidence for their heat pump?

[@johnfreshwater3790]

Another great video. Just to let you know I've been trying to convince skill builder Roger Bisby that despite what he says they work in old houses. Ours is 220 year old solid stone Georgian house with just double glazed windows and loft insulation and we are more than pleased with our efficiency. Would be interesting to see what their heat pumps can do. Would be great to see UK manufacturing booming

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Thanks for the comment John. It is a shame that someone like Roger with such a big following can spread so much misinformation, loved the Heat Geek responses to his videos. One thing that is difficult is comparing efficiency of units without fitting them with your system in your home... I can imagine some heat pumps perform better in specific circumstances. It would be great to see thousands of heat pumps UK made!

[@johnfreshwater3790]

@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle I find it infuriating all the bad press but I still try convincing friends to switch but some are just to frightened to take the plunge It's a shame but I'm sure oil prices will be inflated and then heat pumps will look a better option.

[@heatpump8566]

Good video

[@devjon123]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle Hi Tom, I purchased a Dehumidifiew from Screwfix as our daughter's Flat had signs of mould. It was OK -ish. I then found out about Ebac and purchased on of their " Smart " units. More expensive, but night and day with regard to quality, lower noise levels, and most important of all effectiveness. Daughter was so impressed that when her washing machine packed up the replaced it with an Ebac model too. With regards to the Skillbuilder channel and Roger Bisby, I suspect that it's a bit " Chicken and Egg " in that a fair few of his viewers subscribe because they are anti Heat Pump and his channel confirms their prejudices. I'm sure Roger knows this and tailors his content to suit.

[@user-oo1kc9bf7u]

I've had an Ebac dehumidifier since around 1997, its being great and still works today, moving into ASHPs is a natural step and Ebac's decades of experience on dehumidifiers should hopefully serve them well.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Spot on Mal, I remember you mentioning this previously, it is a pretty good endorsement on the company!

[@Skaskify]

Good video Tom, been following your channel for awhile now and had a valiant heat pump installed in March this year. Very happy with the performance and so far being able to get a scop of about 3.7. We went for the valiant as it was a recommendation from a heat geek installer. Good to see Ebac making heat pumps as UK manufacturing requires all the help it can get. We’ve an Ebac dehumidifier and use it to dry our clothes in the spare room. This allows us greater efficiencies in respect of electricity. Keep posting and thanks again.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Skaskify - apologies for the slow reply to this comment. Thanks so much for taking the time to write it! Thrilled to hear you have had a heat pump installed and a scop of 3.7 sounds fantastic. Ours is vaillant too and I am really happy with how it is performing. We have averaged 3.42 over the last 12 months, which is a significant improvement on our 1st year! I hadn't come across Ebac before but there are loads of people sharing positive stories like you. Thanks again for commenting. All the best for the new year! Tom

[@simon7790]

Excellent to hear. When the time comes, I will definitely seek them out. Just hope they can get a network of installers to do the job nationally (and internationally).

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Simon, yes installers would be key, Tom at Ebac mentioned they had some interest from a bunch of installers, and explained a bit about their servicing plan etc. We'll see how it all pans out! Tom

[@Umski]

Ebac are an underrated company but sadly I suspect they have had to focus on the "smaller" cheaper "uninteresting" products purely due to the big brands having bigger marketing power which then translates to sales and preferred brands by installers. In turn it probably also means being UK made they are a bit more expensive - it would be nice to see them as the myEnergi of HPs - hopefully!

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

It would be great to see an UK company leading on heat pump development, and if their efficiency is as good as they currently think, then I suspect it will sell very well! But already a crowded market with some really big players, we shall see!

[@likhithsagar6452]

Great! Keep up your good work. Look forward to many more videos to come 😅

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Thank you! Thanks for engaging with the video and for the kind words! Tom

[@1943L]

Just for the record Tom, I fitted a heat recovery system 20 years ago. All parts from Wicks. It is still doing the job.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Love it! I would be interested in how you did that and what you used etc

[@johnfreshwater3790]

@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle Hi Tom I fitted MVHR in my house too. It took me a long time to convince my misses that when the heating is on the windows stay shut. I bought a Blauberg small unit that was less then 500 quid about 2 years ago and just pull air out of the bathroom and kitchen and put it back in our bedroom and the landing. Very easy to do and we'll worth the money. I also convinced a friend to fit one and she said she had lived in that house for 20 years and it's the first time she hasn't woke up with a dry mouth as they back onto a busy road so always have the bedroom window shut at night

[@markgaudie80]

Great to see this Tom. 👍

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Cheers Mark, definitely interesting for me being so close to their factory!

[@joewentworth7856]

The visual is interesting lots of people are going to end up with them on show. We considered vinyl wrapping ours to match the wall colour but did not bother. You could have camo or gold if you wish!

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

I haven't looked into wraps, but my wife is keen on building something above it, like a planter or outside worktop... I don't think it would impact efficiency too much. I suspect there will be a bunch of products out one day to come alongside heat pumps!

[@m0aze611]

Really useful to see a British manufacturer enter this market, must confess I’ve never heard of them till now. I’ve started the research phase of ASHP for our next home and see whether it’s viable. 60’ s bungalow with an EPC of C - so I’m assuming it has potential especially when I factor in the need to replace the existing boiler. Like a lot of perspective home owners there is much to learn and gain confidence. Your vids are great material for me and so grateful for the time and effort in producing. Regards Mike

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hello M0aze611 - apologies for the slow reply to your comment, thanks for taking time to write it! It will be interesting to see if Ebac can really hit the ground running this year. It does sound like your new home will be appropriate for a heat pump, any extra insulation etc you can add will help with efficiency but if not, a heat pump sized and installed well will be fine in a 60s bungalow...! Would be great to hear how you get on Thanks and happy new year Tom

[@m0aze611]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle Thanks for the response and encouragement , I will be experimenting with the boiler temp a nd radiator sizes and see where that takes me. Heat Geek just on an on line enquiry indicates a COP of 3.7 . Happy New Year

[@leew6609]

I’ve had an ebac washer for 7 years,I’ve had 1 issue in that time and the company stand by there 10 year warranty! No if or buts an engineer visit within 2 days, just because they don’t have an enormous advertising budget do not underestimate the British company, I gave them a go because it was a British company with local ties etc.I will look into these heat pumps for sure and let’s hope their heritage shines through once more

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

That’s great to hear, I’ve never owned any of their kit but the more I mention them I meet people who say ‘I’ve had one of their dehumidifiers for 25 years, still working’ etc…! Sound like a solid outfit Thanks for the comment! Tom

[@edwardbyard6540]

Would be nice to see ebac work with a company like Octopus and see what could happen.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

It would be great to see a big installation company pick up Ebac's product. I know Octopus bought the NI heat pump company 'Red' - www.renewableenergyhub.co.uk/blog/octopus-energy-makes-major-investment-in-heat-pump-manufacturer-renewable-energy-devices-red and that their new heat pump offer is based on 'Red' design. I wonder whether there is someone who could partner with Ebac in a similar way.... Tom

[@DanEVSolar7]

Interesting! Thanks for the vid Tom. I’m in the process of debating whether to install a heat pump and have done a few vids on my own channel. Newton Aycliffe is not far from me at all. I’ll be interested to see what they offer. I’ve heard the company name before but never really knew what they did. 👍

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Dan, thanks for the comment, look forward to finding out how you get on. If you wanted to talk anything through, or visit an installed system, then let me know! Where abouts are you based?

[@1943L]

EBay were in the vanguard with dehumidifiers making quality products. The high quality washing machines, so it is no surprise to me that they would move into hear pumps. UK based and good luck.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Absolutely - could be great!

[@Group51]

Great just need to train the installers as well.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Yep, we definitely need more people installing heat pumps if we are going to make much progress!

[@laurier3348]

Ebac is amazing.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Brill! Have you used one of their products before?

[@laurier3348]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyleNo, I was just trolling.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Of course, have a nice day 👍

[@barrypickles6546]

I would definatley say a mvhr with an air to air heat pump onboard is the way to go, hot in the winter cool in the summer. I am trying to get one as an add on to my mvhr.

[@brackcycle9056]

Thanks for the video : . The link to the website is useful too : The published Sound Power Level of 67 dB is a higher number than Vaillant 54db ( but actual running sound may differ) & it uses R32 (not R290) . Any info on price ? ,

[@Lewis_Standing]

My understanding is that both R32 and R290 are thought of as excellent modern refrigerants for HP.

[@brackcycle9056]

@@Lewis_Standing It seems R32 has a GWP of 675 kg_co2e/kg , & R290 is 3. ( & yes a monoblock does have many kg). R290 seems to be in the newer models as it can heat to 70c . The published 67db is more of a problem as would mean it fails Permitted Development sound level calc (msc020) when the Vaillant will pass, in my case.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

HI Brackcycle and Lewis - sorry for the slow reply, I haven't seen info on price sorry, and I guess this would vary depending on the wholesaler. The sound level may be an issue that you are right to highlight. I wonder whether this would also update when they update their efficiency tests. And interesting about the choice of refrigerant, although the amount in a system is quite low, and shouldn't be leaking regularly (!), you are right we should be pushing for lower GWP. Thanks Tom

[@tlangdon12]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle R-290 has a much lower GWP (3) than R-32 (657), but R-290 is flammable, so is less, but it also provides higher COPs at lower temperatures than R-32, so moving to R-290 is a generally a good idea. Only larger (commercial) heat pumps are precluded from doing so, as the quantity of refrigerant starts to pose significant risks due flammabilty.

[@onlythetruthfull]

On| a new build would it be viable to have the sink, washing machine, dishwasher, shower bath etc empty via one pipe into a wide chamber (heat exchanger) underneath a heat pump to collect the waste energy from the wastewater? also if using an air extractor with heat recovery would it not be possible to combine that so the air exhausted could be utilized by the heat pump, especially in winter? ps possible a question for Ebac.

[@tlangdon12]

So please to hear that Ebac are already parterning with Homely. Homely have great potenetial to improve energy efficiency. Would love to seee a video on how defrost cycles work in practice.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Brill - I shall work on that next time we have a frost!

[@xxwookey]

Picking any one manufacturer's system is the wrong approach. What manufacturers need to do is publish their protocols so any system can interface with their kit. The whole area of heat pumps, boilers, chargers, inverters/batteries/PV is a disaster of proprietary systems where everyone tries to get you to buy particular combinations of kit that will talk to each other. This is not how the world works in practice (people buy all sorts of kit, depending what is best for them or supported by local installers). Vaillant use an open protocol (ebus), Victron and Pylontech publish protocols and software, and EVSE make an open charger and the openenergymonitor people have the right idea. Just about everyone else is proprietary-only and a lot of kit only works with a server outside the home. I'd love to hear of other exceptions. There are more than 35 EV charger companies selling in the UK. Octopus only support one or two of those, despite there being an open charger protocol: OCPP. Mixergy _only_ works with their cloud server (it dies if they go bust). Myenergi kit only talks to other myenergi kit. This is all mad and needs to stop. No-one wants kit that stops working in a few years time when an outfit goes bust. Or a load of perfectly good kit that can't talk to others parts of the house system.

[@stephendoherty8291]

Installing a MVHR in an existing home without alot of interior air plumbing would not be easy even at a "limited" scale. Great for new homes (like considering any extensive underfloor heating). I would consider looking at Showersave, This takes the waste heat from showers *assuming everyone does not prefer baths) and reuses that heat vs dumping it down the drain. I don't have one but I would definitely consider such a system with a new shower install or main bathroom revamp. MVHRs do much the same from warm interior air or humid air but on a whole house scale. I am also interested what HP makers are now offering High temperature heat pumps which is at odds with near all we thought HPs for homes would work.

[@simonclark5936]

I stopped using Ebac dehumidifiers after several failed within two years. Some were replaced under warranty, but even then I found their customer service to be pretty poor.

[@jimmyc38]

For me the elephant in the room is the noise level of the heat pump. Too many planning applications having to go through falling foul of noise levels.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

That's a fair point, hopefully a bit of feedback they can work on as they keep developing Tom

[@1943L]

Just trying to get an email to you Tom, regarding the heat recovery. Is there another way to send to you?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi John - yes you can get hold of me on [e-mail] - thanks Tom

[@stoveguy2133]

How clean is your power plant? Vs natural gas?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Stove Guy, interesting question, in the UK about a quarter of our electricity comes from wind power, 5% from solar, 20% from nuclear power, 35% from gas…. So, a mix. Where I live in the North East most comes from wind or nuclear. But because of the efficiency of a heat pump, even if electricity was generated purely from gas power stations, you’d be using less gas than if you heated via a gas boiler. So even with a dirty grid a heat pump would still reduce emissions compared to a gas boiler. Hope that makes sense, please do come back with any questions. Tom Ps - there is nothing natural about gas, it is a highly industrialised process to dig up something that has been in the ground for millions of years. We should call it fossil gas and treat it like a fossil by leaving it in the ground, or putting it in a museum.

[@kaf2303]

What refrigerant do they use? Are they planning to make a water to water heat pump.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

I understand it is R32. I don't know about their next plans and whether they include water to water heat pumps, but I guess anything is possible if this first unit is a success

[@xxwookey]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle R32 is the least-bad of high-GWP refrigerants (GWP of 675), and the same one Daikin picked 10(?) years ago. But for a new design now I'd really expect to see propane or CO2 so the whole f-gas problem is sidestepped. I guess one can get slightly better efficiency with R32? I'm not sure that's worth the risk from an atmospheric point of view.

[@estqwerty]

so they are doing something with the defrost - may be injection as mitsubishi zubadans... ot lg have something on theirs top ac...

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

I am sorry I can't remember exactly what Tom had said the technology was other than they had learnt from their dehumidification experience to defrost the coil. It will be interesting to see what the patent is Tom

[@tomplumb7754]

Nice, how do they deal with the defrost?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Tom, I’ll be honest, I don’t know, they say they have a patent pending… but they suggest it could save £130 a year…. Really big claim!

[@tomplumb7754]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle I look forward to hearing hoe they do it. Shame its not a Propane they use in the units so the HW is going to need the back up heater which will reduce HW COP’s. Cheers for the reply.

[@BenIsInSweden]

@@tomplumb7754 It's only anti-legionella that needs the immersion, which can be run every 1-2 weeks depending on usage. If you're turning over the water frequently enough the ALC isn't required either.

[@tlangdon12]

The colour choice might seem trivial, but a darker colour might actually be better at collecting heat from the environment and keeping it where in a place that it can be collected and used.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

That is an interesting point. It would be very interesting to test... on a cold winter's day with sun blazing, does a dark heat pump make a warmer microclimate around the unit than a white / reflective unit...? That's a great experiment!

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

I think the only difference would be the air directly around the unit, if the unit was in direct sunlight a lighter unit would reflect the heat. The question is on how much warmer air being drawn into the heat pump would be, I suspect it won't be much

[@Sean_S1000]

Are they actually selling the heat pumps yet?, as I cannot find them anywhere

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Good question, I’m not sure, I know when I visited they said they had a bunch of orders from installers for when production ramped up… but I don’t know which installers!

[@Sean_S1000]

Ah okay thanks for the video Tom keep up the Good work

[@kavanobrien6547]

Surely the pump used would be probably an important part of the unit, lots of different pumps on the market and many are not very good , so if the pump is poor with lots of issues then the smart bit of the kit or the pipe work or plates basically everything else in the unit could be good but if the pump is not good the rest of the items in the unit becomes an after thought , mag drive pumps are the most efficient with no issues along with no maintenance because less moving parts , so all those thinking about heat pumps irrespective of what manufacturer would be to ask what pump is used within the unit ,

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Kavanobrien, it is a fair point, and circulating water from a heat pump to our radiator circuit is a key part of heat pump installations and energy use. I don't know what pump the Ebac unit uses, but also don't know the pump my Vaillant uses either... Thanks for engaging with the video Tom

[@kavanobrien6547]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle Having spent twenty years in the pump industry and dealing with possibly every pump be it pumps for heating , marine, oil, sewage, the list is endless really , have worked on maybe every pumps irrespective of what manufacture, building many items and units to pump any liquids, not seen inside a heat pump unit , but I could tell which unit would be good or bad or have issues with just looking at the pump , maybe be in the future with your videos try and find which pump is used in which unit and I can tell you what problems or issues the unit will have in the future, be it bearing or impeller or flow rate again the list is endless . Take care.

[@clarkfinlay78]

As great as it is to have a UK manufacturer for heat pumps when you look at the spec this pump will really struggle to get permission for permitted development. With the sound power of mid to high 60s it is 10 dba over the Vailant the MCS 020 will fail a lot for these

[@tlangdon12]

It would be an interesting engineering challenge for a undergraduate engineer to design a quieter fan blade, as much of the excess noise will be aerodynamic.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Yes I wonder whether there are any improvements as they go to market, it would be a shame if the heat pump couldn't be used in a lot of cases.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

My experience is that heat pump fans and air movement is fairly subtle, but the compressor could be making a low hum which is the real noise. There could be some attenuation in the unit casing that helps capture noise... hopefully they can reduce noise!

[@Chris-hy6jy]

All the government need to do is significantly drop the electricity price compared to gas and people will switch over. They won't of course, if anything they'll just increase the gas price!

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Chris, yes that may well have a good impact. To begin with, there are a number of levies on electricity costs that aren't on gas, if we could remove those levies that would help reduce energy costs and help the ration between gas and electricity for low carbon heating. Anything more drastic needs to be fairly sensitive, could quickly increase numbers of people in fuel poverty if we increased costs on gas.... But we do need some change! Thanks Tom

[@petergordon4525]

​@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyleslightly different topic here Tom, my electric boiler has an efficiency of 99% but a performance rating of D, googling this tells me its because most electricity in the UK is generated by gas. Is this likely to change soon with the increasing number of renewables generation? I live in Scotland where its necessary to have home report before selling your home, I would be penalised because of the D rating which is a bit hard to understand given that Scotgov claim a huge portion of electricity generation here is from renewables. Would be interested in your thoughts.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Saved Photo Hi Peter, good question! A couple of thoughts, I am not sure where the performance rating comes from but I suspect is linked to cost to run as well as emissions. Emissions linked to electricity have dropped dramatically in the last 10-12 years, so now your electricity boiler would be very similar emissions to a gas boiler on paper, but in reality, as you live in Scotland, will have very low emissions because of the large amounts of wind power there. And because of this, An electric boiler is one option to give us a path to low emissions. It isn’t true that most of our electricity in the UK comes from gas, over the last 12 months it has been only 35% www.mygridgb.co.uk/last-12-months/ I can imagine your frustration in being penalised for having an electric boiler, particularly because it is clean technology. I suspect something will change in how we rate these kinds of technologies particularly in sales of homes. One thing to note, is that a head pump would be about 1/3rd the cost to run because of its efficiency. Electric boilers are thought to be expensive to run compared to gas or heat pumps. I hope that is helpful context? Thanks Tom

[@3D_Printing]

Did they Lobby the Government

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

I don't know, but I do know that Oil and Gas companies are lobbying government all the time.