Counseling Student REACTS to Dr. Maruki & Kasumi Session (Persona 5 Royal)

[@Iris_1217]

Ah yes. The "It's perfectly normal to want to be your dead sister" session.

[@ThoughtBubbleYT]

And what a session it is.

[@Iris_1217]

@@ThoughtBubbleYT I really appreciated your breakdown of (and reaction to) why that line of thinking is so wrong, especially because it takes away Sumire's independence.

[@ShuraEssays]

@@chickettypingers8072 no people understand that. He understands it and even brings it up a lot. It's just not good for a counselor.

[@kingsman5121]

@@ShuraEssays I personally that him being an okay guy but a horrible counselor was intentional on the writers part

[@lordlightning2339]

Maybe the candy can also be a means to extend friendship or a bond. People bond over food all the time. If there is no food, there is little trust there. Maybe a healthy type of bribery.

[@trisnm4116]

Sumire: Sometimes, I can't help but think things would've been better if I were Kasumi Yoshizawa Maruki: *bE kaSuMi*

[@starmaker75]

Maruki might as well go Maruki: by the way if be more like sumrie have this liquor to drown those thoughts away.

[@jj_grabes]

Sumire: I refuse to live as Kasumi’s killer. Me, after spending a year bonding with and falling in love with this character: Well, I refuse to live in a world without the *real you* in it.

[@thejonbrownshow8470]

I'd love to see a parody of this scene with her being like: wait wha-... *Maruki T-posing with whied out shades on desk*

[@richard_pine]

Seeing your absolute disgust at Maruki's unethical approach is funny, but it's also reassuring. Good to know you'll only use your powers for good!

[@ThoughtBubbleYT]

Well thank you! Yeah, nothing disturbs/disgusts me more than counselors who manipulate individuals who are coming to work with them. If you don't care about ethics you shouldn't be a counselor. imo

[@richard_pine]

Agreed, and thanks for the reply!

[@nickelakon5369]

@@ThoughtBubbleYT I wouldn't say Maruki "doesn't care about ethics" He just has different moral principles, understandable given his ability to manipulate reality. It's not like Maruki's intention is to hurt anybody, He wants to do good, he's just wrong about what that good is.

[@SigmaSyndicate]

I think that this session really highlights why the Phantom Thieves are fighting so hard to stop Maruki's actualization. He doesn't want people to be able to move on without him, he wants to instead fix everyone's problems for them regardless of whether or not that's actually good for them as people.

[@ThoughtBubbleYT]

Yes! Which is why I'm so glad that they put it so close to the end of his palace because if anyone wasn't sure who was right before this, this would probably be the final nail in the coffin.

[@NotAdachiPeople]

The way you said it implies he’s a bad person. He actually thinks it’s good for them as people and that this isn’t wrong.

[@redknigh6462]

“You never want to re-traumatize your client” Maruki: shows her, her sister dying to get her on his side.

[@tyde3266]

Maruki's counseling methods are like putting duct tape over a hole in a boat. It stops the leak, sure, but it's not a permanent fix and removing it without care might damage it further. My friends and I believe he intentionally re-traumatized Sumire in the most shocking possible way in his palace to prove to Joker that the real world is too harsh and painful to live in like... sir. You caused this problem.

[@ThoughtBubbleYT]

I agree with you 1000% that he intentionally re-traumatized her. I talked about it a bit in one of my other videos but showing her the moment her sister died the very moment she came back to her senses was beyond disgusting to me and that was the moment that even though he's one of the most interesting characters in the game, the dude didn't care about anyone or anything that didn't fit into his agenda.

[@goldbrella9820]

That's why to fix the worst leaks YOU USE BRANDED FLEX TAPE (all rights reserved)

[@wesleygriffiths8748]

[Watching Maruki turn Sumire’s persona berserk] THAT’S A LOTTA DAMAGE!!

[@kidprime6863]

​@@ThoughtBubbleYTThat is just demented and goes against everything he stands for. Altering her mind to make think her that she's her dead sister and take over her life is one thing but re-traumatizing her just to prove a point is beyond unacceptable. This is worse than what Ford did to Lucy in Psychonauts 2.

[@0ptimuscrime]

Sumire: “I want to be like my dead sister who just DIED and also I feel like I should be the dead one. I WANT TO BE like my DEAD sister.” Maruki: “cool”

[@goldbrella9820]

Maruki: Ok kazumi

[@jj_grabes]

Sumire: I refuse to live as Kasumi’s killer. Me, after spending a year bonding with and falling in love with this character: Well, I refuse to live in a world without the *real you* in it.

[@DarkCrow02]

All in all, Dr. Maruki is a coward who runs away from his problems and feelings and wants his clients to do the same. I saw a video that said that people who bottle up their emotions are uncomfortable around people who naturally feel theirs and this makes sense for Dr. Maruki.

[@ThoughtBubbleYT]

I think that he's definitely a deeply troubled man and this bleeds profoundly into his counseling which leads to... Damaging results.

[@AdumbroDeus]

@@ThoughtBubbleYT I presume that's why his palace theme is called "gentle madman", the implication is that, even though he's well-intentioned, his actions are a product of his trauma and that he's deeply troubled. I'm not sure "madman" is the right word, but it conveys the themes. Actually on second thought, I disagree with using madman, it conveys something very different even though people casually use it this way, it really does imply something very different.

[@DeviantaKrale]

There's also the complete lack of consent. Sumire never consented to having her cognition changed here. Wishing that she was her dead sister isn't the same as saying "Hey, arrogant doctor, turn me into my dead sister!" She wasn't told that this was a possibility; she wasn't given any information on risks or side effects of this treatment. There was absolutely no informed consent and that is terrifying. Also, I hope Rumi wasn't driving, operating heavy machinery, etc when Maruki's palace collapsed.

[@JadaCarlton]

You know what makes Sumire's situation even more disturbing, that it was just HER cognition that changed. So while was walking around thinking she was Kasumi, everyone who knows her true identity thought she was batsh*t insane for "stealing" her dead sister's identity! 😱

[@ShuraEssays]

I mean, according to what we see in the 3rd semester, right at the start, there's a weird blip in reality when you hear her dad call her Sumire - of course, you don't hear the full name, but it's a huge red flag that something is wrong. And they mention something about Joker believing Sumire was Kasumi being the reason she was Kasumi to him. . . It's possible- and I'm not sure about this, not 100 sure, but it's possible that she was acting normal in her family's eyes, and to everyone else. Basically, everyone else was calling her Sumire the entire time and she only heard Kasumi. Taking it a step further, it's possible she was calling herself Sumire but in her mind, she was saying Kasumi. Her coach never explicitly calls her out on going by Kasumi before, but she does say that she finally started acting like herself again. That's a bit of an underreaction if Sumire had been going by a different name for the past year or so and suddenly started acting like she did before. In short, I believe (not the song) that Sumire was still seen as Sumire by everyone around her who had no reason to perceive her as Kasumi. Joker and the Theives saw her as Kasumi, so we have no way to know how other people might see her. It stands to reason that if she thought she was Kasumi, sincs she looks like Kasumi, the people who didn't know Sumire would probably just assume she was Kasumi without question. As for her family, they knew she was Sumire, called her Sumire, and probably thought her acting like Kasumi was just a coping mechanism. An unhealthy one, but still a coping mechanism.

[@drowz4991]

The Four Star Gamer Yeah, you’re right joker thought Sumire was Kasumi based on the name that was written in her notebook being “Kasumi Yoshizawa” so I’m guessing joker’s cognition of Sumire must’ve been that she was Kasumi as well. Since according to Akechi she’s “Been Sumire from the very beginning” so that implies everyone else saw her as Sumire other than joker and Sumire herself

[@donb7519]

no one thought she was insane cause no one realized everyone calls her yoshizawa not her first name cause japan and i wouldnt be surprised if she was still calling herself sumire without realizing it cause cognition so in a way its worse because without the world changing its even more of a lie

[@Moon10251]

maruki is a bad councillor but you have to admit hes a damn well written character

[@ThoughtBubbleYT]

He's honestly one of my all-time favorite characters. I hate him as a counselor, but his story is so compelling I adore it.

[@Moon10251]

@@ThoughtBubbleYT same here, him and sumire are great additions and i love them both very much. akechi's attitude in the 3rd sem is something i loved too and p5r is just great overall

[@dekudude8888]

His fucked up way of counseling is what makes him so good. It gives him way more depth than someone like Kamoshida or Kaneshiro. Maruki cares, but his own issues seep through and causes him to develop a weird "savior of the masses" idea

[@riskyworks]

@@ThoughtBubbleYT Like he doesn't try to be bad, he just doesn't realise that he's doing rather poorly at his job. He's a pretty good villain, simply because he genuinely believes that he is doing good.

[@thatoneguy5343]

@@riskyworks Correction: He’s a pretty good *antagonist.*

[@dekudude8888]

Sumire: I wish I were my dead sister. It's my fault she died... Maruki: Awesome! Keep that mentality up! See you next session!

[@Mysticgamer]

It's really ironic, Maruki's the least threatening antangonist in Shin Megami Tensei games but he's possibly the most powerful and most dangergous in all of the series main and spinoff.

[@mystery8820]

The fact that he brainwashes even Persona-users tells of how dangerous he is.

[@basilofgoodwishes4138]

Well there is someone even more dangerous than he. This villian also brainwashed persona users, he actually has the power to destroy the world.

[@ItsKy99]

you know seeing this really just puts into perspective why maruki’s reality was not right. sure the man had nothing but good intentions for everyone in the world but man..

[@ThoughtBubbleYT]

I mean just because someone has good intentions doesn't mean the outcome will be inherently good I suppose.

[@ItsKy99]

ThoughtBubble oh of course there is no denying that what he does is wrong. his methods are really really not right at all especially with what he does to sumire (ngl the twist of her being her dead sister was just beyond genius) & really had me questioning what the hell maruki did to her. i love maruki as a character & even more as an antagonist. not a terrible person just a really misguided one imo

[@Omiron8214]

My first playthrough, I immediately thought of Maruki as "Yaldabaoth 2.0". Instead of taking away free will and chance of growth to straight up MURDER everyone, he takes it away with free snack and the promise of a life full of sugar and rainbows. (WEEE!)

[@F1areon]

I mean, I think you're kinda SUPPOSED to see him that way. :O

[@SpiritKitten]

I always felt Joker was a better councilor as he leveled up the confidants

[@TheSlammurai]

I think that was intended. He's a foil to Maruki in that way.

[@masterchiefpettyofficerspa3646]

Well Akira (I don't give two shits if his name is Ren) helped guide people to find their own path in life. Maruki forced what he thought was right onto people to find their own path.

[@lsebastian9086]

Maruki was meant to be a councelor but he behaved like the fairy godfather or Genie: Conceding what they want but not thinking very carefully than this is not what anyone would need Ren had a powerful persona and skills yet he could not give his friends and confidants what they would want. But by leaning a friendly shoulder and with his virtues he helped them find what they needed.

[@kirbysamus]

"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions." Maruki didn't want others to suffer in a way like he did. When he had the power to easily change that, he did, thinking that was what was best. Letting them live a lie and to be happy with it. As long as they were happy, that's all that mattered.

[@EmperorSteel]

This counseling session really reveals Maruki's dark side. Even though, as you said what he is doing has its good intentions, his ideals of this new world will kill someone's sense of free will because someone is making the decision for them, as you also said. Even though someone says something like: "I really want to be with this girl because I believe that we are meant for each other." Making things happen instantly like magic and miracles like what Maruki is doing represents that of a false prophet because he is giving his clients a false sense of realism and thinking only of what his clients tell him instead of trying to find solutions to the problems we face. Almost how the Bible describes false prophets in my opinion. I love Goro Akechi for a few reasons: he is the opposite of Dr. Maruki because he wants others to fix their own problems instead of having someone else take care of their problems. I loved when he quoted that "[he] will carve out [his] own path." That shows maturity from his past mistakes but not only that, you are you and no one knows you other than you yourself. I really like your video Jon because this video really shows Maruki for who he really is. Which is sad, but from a narrative standpoint, it's so good. I love Maruki narratively but not for what he stands for.

[@demi-fiendoftime3825]

It's due to his flaws that Maruki's persona is the Blind Idiot God of Lovecraftian lore as he's a fool blind to what he's doing.

[@lens_hunter]

I never really understood why Maruki's ideal world for Sumire was that her sister was alive again.

[@gr33nriver77]

@@lens_hunter because Sumire doesn't want that

[@Sweetwaterdream]

@@lens_hunter because Sumire always lived in Kasumi’s shadow. Because of this her sense of self became distorted and she couldnt see Kasumi’s genuine love for her leading to Sumire believing she was worthless. When Kasumi saved her, her self esteem shattered and she felt that she should become Kasumi because Sumire feels she herself is so worthless.

[@F1areon]

@@Sweetwaterdream That and also she thinks she was responsible for Kasumi's death, and believes things would be better of if Kasumi lived and Sumire died.

[@LunaDeaminac]

One of the things I find most interesting about the brainwashing is the meet-up between Joker, Akechi and Yoshizawa. She mentions she doesn’t think that the Phantom Thieves’ tactics are sustainable because their targets didn’t change themselves but was altered by an external force. (It happened just before Futaba’s Palace.) Even she knows what Maruki did was bad. Admittedly we don’t know if it’s the Kasumi personality that knows it’s wrong; if it’s part of Sumeri pushing through or a combination of the two mindsets but it’s still interesting. Maruki’s a terrible counsellor and I would probably ban him the field honestly. I like him as a character. He’s a really nice guy but he discarded someone’s wellbeing to prove his theory! I hope that’s so far outside what’s considered ethical that it would destroy his career because if it’s not then what is!?

[@donb7519]

im honestly not sure if he even is an actual counsellor with a license and stuff i mean he must have a degree in psychology to study cognitive psy but it takes more than that right?

[@LunaDeaminac]

@@donb7519 that’s a good point. It’s not like Shujin actually cared about their students so they probably would just hire someone who wasn’t licensed. Then again, Sumeri’s parents were pretty well off so they could probably get her a real counsellor.

[@donb7519]

@@LunaDeaminac true i guess its just odd he was able to switch so fast and it even seems like sumire was one of his first patients

[@SpiritOfGotham]

As a counselor, he's definitely pretty... yikes. Still love the guy though

[@ThoughtBubbleYT]

He's one of my favorite characters of all time even though he's the worst as a counselor.

[@AdumbroDeus]

@@ThoughtBubbleYT "the point of this game is, I'm a terrible counselor" *people discussing it among themselves at first disagreeing and then generally agreeing, then you pop in and say "Ya, you're terrible at everything!" (You just reminded me of that exchange from SMBC theater's "God's press conference" sketch")

[@Princeomishore]

@@ThoughtBubbleYT I think that he is and isn't a good counselor. in most of his one on one sessions with the Phantom thieves he does a good job imo. even in the beginning of the Sumire session he was doing good. But because of his past and because he doesn't want others to feel pain. he abuses he position as a counselor to gran the wishes of everyone. which is bad(even though he does genuinely want the best for everyone).

[@Alibaba-he7ro]

I always thought that the approach here made Kasumi’s death meaningless. She died to protect her sister because of how much she cared about Sumire. She sacrificed her life to save the person she cared the most about, but then Maruki told Sumire to give that up. Kasumi loved Sumire the way she was and didn’t want her to change. In fact, she was jealous of Sumire (as seen in the Confidant). Making Sumire forget who she is and erasing that autonomy only got rid of Kasumi’s dream

[@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz]

"counsellor reacts to teenager's brainwashing session"

[@MadCatJervis]

I got disgusted by Maruki when I saw what he did to Sumire and when I went through his palace (especially the part where he screens people to see who' "needs to be cured"). The manipulative and arrogant nature of his actions under the guise of good intentions are inexcusable. He used self-sacrificing and grandiosity as a way to escape from his own pain of losing someone important, so that he could justify the tragedy that happened on himself, give it meaning and not deal with the pain, but instead feel good about himself. "I'm doing all of these things for other's own good, so I don't need to feel bad for myself" In the process, he forsake his responsibility as a counselor and chose not to help his patient move pass their trauma, but avoid them, he chose to "help" Sumire by enabling her to run from it, then deliberately rips that bandage off himself to prove his point that he is the correct person - HE IS NOT. The fact that she was so in pain once she remembers only shows his failure and the flaws in his ideology, the pain is still there, it never goes away, people just need to depend on him to avoid it. The sole fact that he feels like the world relying on him to decide what's best is ideal is extremely arrogant and hypocritical, even if it stemmed from grief. I understand that what happened to him was messed up, and you can definitely see his reasoning behind it all, but I can't hep but feel frustrated when Simure thanks him in the palace. What he did to Simure is wrong, when Simure thanks him for helping her be well enough to meet Joker, I almost had my stomach turned. Maruki as a counselor should have been the one to actually help Simure, not Joker, instead he sat there listening to his patient say horrible things about herself, completely denying her own self-worth, and he agreed with her. He indulged her in her guilt and self loathing and never helped her value "Simure" as a person, "Simure" thinks so little about herself that she thinks her sister won't grief like she does if she's the one who died, and Maruki continuously allowed her to keep on thinking that way. To put it simply, what makes me angry when I think about his character is that he doesn't truly understand what makes human connections matter. "To grief deeply is to have loved fully", the fact that we love and care even though we know we may lose those connections is what make them strong. The fact that there are hardships and people choose to stick around is what makes relationships matter. That we see the bad parts of each other and still choose to love is what makes love great. Simure didn't see her own worth and thus chose to become her sister, avoiding the pain, only at the end of her COOP that she saw her own worth, and it was at that point she understands her sister's love for her. It's not just because "Kazumi is perfect", it's that she also values her and deeply loves her. Her finally seeing her own worth helps her see how precious her connection with her sister was, it gave meaning to it. The same thing goes fro all the phanthom thieves. It was their pain that brought them together, their anger and sorrow that united them and deepened their bond. Like what they themselves said in the game, if they regress to pretend none of those terrible things ever happened, their connection with Joker will slowly fade away. Ann learned to be a stronger person through Shiho's incident, and their bond, though filled with regrets and hurt, is stronger as they know they will be there for each other even through such terrible things. Ryuji's friendship with Joker matters, because Joker was the one who stuck with him when nobody else did. Because even through near death experiences Joker is the one who stands up for him. Makoto's love for Sai is deepened as no matter the difficult stressful situations, and no matter the horrible things Sai said that may hurt her, she chose to have faith in Sai and be there for her. The fact that she grew to acknowledges there's fear and resentment in the relationship, but also care and deep love makes them closer as a family. Maruki fails to see how deep those bonds are despite the pain. He couldn't share his pain with his partner nor help his partner share hers with him. It almost feels like it's because he doesn't want to face how much Ruyumi truly mattered to him, and how much pain and regret it caused him to lose her. That's why he tried to justify the whole thing as his starting point into becoming something greater, instead of properly mourning the loss. I feel bad for him, but he should have been very sorry for what he did to Simure. He almost permanently robbed her from seeing her true connection with Kazumi and truly loving herself the way her sister would hope for.

[@Pandaemonium]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. In Maruki's palace as you get higher, it becomes Eden and he sees himself as a God. Utter arrogance. I also find it interesting that the bottom levels are more science themed. But throughout, all of his shadows see him as a savior from their problems. It's very brainwashed cult like, and telling of how Maruki sees himself/his methods. I'd love to see your thoughts about the themes and symbolism in his palace.

[@owain1077]

reaction to Maruki's """""""""counseling session""""""""""

[@tenniskongguy7711]

Maruki is good at being a really bad counselor sometimes and a pretty ok counselor sometimes

[@ThoughtBubbleYT]

Agreed. Though, I'd have to say on the whole the bad is way more damaging than the good is helpful. lmao

[@BobbyTheGamerOfJUSTICE]

Maruki is genuinely one of the greatest antagonists I’ve seen in a long time. I wouldn’t really say he’s a BAD GUY per say. But a man who is incredibly misguided who wants to make everyone happy, in the wrongest of ways.

[@chloenelson3951]

"I'm gonna need a snack after this one.." Maruki can give you snacks! /uh Jokes aside. I love this video. You put into words a lot of things that bug me about Maruki. He's a well meaning person...Just. Incredibly misguided. Harmfully misguided. I've said to friends who really like his character, that I don't hate him, I just think he's a lousy counsellor. As someone who regularly attends counselling, seeing some of these "blunders" as you called them, was really jarring for me. Especially in one case where one of those blunders applied to me with a psychiatrist I saw once, and then immediately walked out on and never went back, while I was still very young, due to one of those blunders. I see his character from a different perspective that some other people do, so he tends to bug me, despite his "good" intentions. Watching this video is nice cause it reassures me that I'm not just being too harsh on his character. As for this counselling session itself, there's something that Sumire says that has always bugged me. Her belief that Kasumi wouldn't cry and would just, move past it. That she could do it despite the grief. She mentions to Joker at another point that it wouldn't have mattered if she were the one to die instead of Kasumi. That no one would care. That says to me that she doesn't understand her sister as well as she thought, given Kasumi cared enough to sacrifice her life to protect her. I don't believe she would be able to handle it as well as Sumire thinks. Which says to me that everything she says about Kasumi, and much of her behaviour once she's been brainwashed, was more of her Cognition of Kasumi, rather than an accurate depiction of Kasumi. Which also explains to me why she suffered in Gymnastics afterwards, cause she seemed to believe that Kasumi did it effortlessly. So because of that brainwashing, she could think she's working hard, but subconsciously, she's not putting in that real effort. Cause she doesn't think Kasumi would need to. And if that's correct, then Maruki messed up even further because that dissonance between what "Kasumi" believed she was doing, and what she was actually doing, would just cause more chaos in her mind even with his brainwashing in place. Just tossing some of my own thoughts on the subject out there. Your videos really make me think more about this stuff.

[@mrex666productions7]

His profession isn't exclusively in counseling. It's actually researching a way to end all human suffering. He has to find out what you desire, no matter what. What he's supposedly going to do next is up to guessing but Yaldabaoth influenced him to grant all of them accordingly.

[@chloenelson3951]

@Lucan Stone Him immediately jumping to Ryuji's leg injury. He had to have been informed of Kamoshida breaking his leg by the school. Ryuji never mentioned it to him before Maruki asked about it.

[@chloenelson3951]

@Lucan Stone All I was saying is that sort of behaviour doesn't create trust with the client. In fact it can do the opposite.

[@musoumiko4730]

"What he did with Kasumi..." Oh no Maruki's gotten to ThoughtBubble too! I'm so conflicted because this session really _does_ just make me feel insanely uncomfortable (and how they do it with her name in the text box and stuff is so perfect for that creepy horrifying feeling) but his reaction to it is everything I could have hoped for. I died when he just straight up got out of his chair lmao. What a birthday present this video was. Also to address a question, "Did he actualize anyone else?" The answer is "maybe, but probably not" because some of his notes in his palace hint that he literally used Sumire as a lab rat to go "see look, actualization! Cognitive research!" and that part of the reason he even agreed to go to Shujin was to keep tabs on her after he inflicted his change on her (edit: yeah literally he says "this was my first time altering a cognition so greatly"). Which honestly just makes it even more disgusting because he devalues her humanity (and reveals a lot of hypocrisy in his approach (and also insanely breaches any semblance of confidentiality)). It's also vaguely hinted that he continues to meddle with her psych by doing more actualizations, since you can see the glasses Joker helps her pick for her dad are the same ones the dude who was harassing her was wearing, and she doesn't comment on them other than they spoke out to her or w/e. It's just Real Gross and shows just how tragically broken and blinded he's been by his trauma. Which... Makes sense given it was strong enough to cause him to form a palace. He could have been a great counselor, if he didn't ruin himself, and frankly it's a real good showing of how apologetic he is in the end that he acknowledges what he's done by straight up leaving the industry.

[@Jotunn96]

I really wish I'd seen this video ages ago because this was always a part of Maruki's actions that aren't criticized nearly enough in my opinion. The sheer number of basic ethical considerations aspiring counselors are taught about early as high school psychology which he completely ignores baffle me.

[@CyberAnko]

You know what really fucks me up about this scene? The way the camera shifts from one side to the other and we see Sumire "change" into Kasumi. Something about that really freaked me out. This was a good video.

[@Dracomasterthefirst]

I love how I can see your face , the moment your soul leaves your body

[@もちの花]

Your thoughts have made see Maruki in a completely different light. When I first played through the game I couldn't help but think I would like him to be my counselor.

[@ThoughtBubbleYT]

Like I've said in past videos I think he has a great disposition to be a counselor and I can totally see why people would like someone like him! He was just so profoundly unethical that he has no business working with mental health.

[@もちの花]

@@ThoughtBubbleYT Your right, though something I can't help but think about is how attractive his words sound to people who have hard times in their lives, like for example Sumire. She was in a state of such despair, and what Maruki told her made her think that she could be saved from that. I have to admit, saying my feelings in regards to Maruki are complicated is a heavy understatement. btw, it was my first time listening to the English voices, I was very surprised when I heard them.

[@AdumbroDeus]

It's because he's well written, his words are very seductive, but when you look closer you realize it's incredibly manipulative.

[@thejonbrownshow8470]

Same here ironically, even with his distortions and going through the true final boss with rejecting his reality, I still quite liked him alot, but one of the bad endings is him putting joker in a limbo where's he's stuck in his bed and lavenza in butterfly form is stuck in a spider web

[@もちの花]

@@thejonbrownshow8470 Yes, as a character I like him a lot. Even when taking things that happen in bad endings, I can't help but simpatize with him

[@connorcampbell-bisson8721]

Ohhhhhh, I've been waiting for this. Strap in boys, this is gonna be a long one. So... For the sake of context, I went through the whole game until almost the third semester thinking Maruki was inexperienced but ultimately well-meaning. It seemed to me that he mostly just had an issue with priorities in any given session, such as when he asked Ryuji if there was anyone in his class that he liked (an innocent enough question, all things considered, but WAY too personal and could have easily made Ryuji more defensive if he didn't just acknowledge the awkwardness of it). Then we get to the point where he did his leaving assembly and he comments on his belief that it's okay to try and escape from your problems which... I personally see the value of being able to take a break from your problems every now and then to keep yourself from getting overwhelmed but I didn't get the sense that's what he was going for. This, combined with his passing comments on using change-of-heart-este methods for psychological healing (which I didn't give too much thought because Futaba proves that changes of heart helps with a lot of the baggage but still requires work for the person to fully recover) gave me the sense that he had his own issues he hadn't quite came to terms with which, I don't know how problematic having such issues is when it comes to being a councillor or if it's mostly a case of trying to keep those issues separate from your work but I did think it did negatively impact how helpful he could be. Then the third semester happened. Okay, technically, I was irked by it all when Sumire accidentally went into his palace near the end the Sae's palace part of the game (and that was mostly due to figuring out whose palace it was just based on what was said), due to its existence hinting at distorted desires but that's neither here nor there. (And I'm actually curious as to what actually makes a desire distorted.) But the third semester is when I quickly started to despise the man. His overall attitude to Joker rejecting his reality felt extremely manipulative, in a way that made me think of an abusive partner. And his actions during the Sumire fight really got under my skin. First is the fact that, despite having a week to do so, he hadn't re-established the cognitive overlay or actualization, making the whole resulting fight feel like he's just sitting there going "You see that pain she's in? that's your fault.". Then, when she loses, he outright hijacks Cendrillon for the sake of winning the fight and outright FEEDS Sumire's refusal to accept the truth (literally, if you take his comment on Cendrillion being just that as fact) with the whole thing giving me the sense that he's doing all that just to prove a goddamn point. Notably, you later find out he is fully capable of being spiteful and petty as shown when he confronts his old professor with the results of his work. With all that said and done, I left the whole thing thinking that even if he believed he was doing the right thing, the way he was going about it was specifically to get Joker's approval and validation, almost as if THAT was more important to him than just going through with everything. Kinda Thanos-y, if you get that. As for my thoughts on this specific session, cognitive overlay aside, I think he does have a valid point in the benefits of trying to be more like someone you admire, within reason. That said, there's something painfully upsetting about the fact that Sumire seems to think that Katsumi would be almost completely unaffected by her death (which probably REALLY highlights her depression and sense of self-worth) Also, as mentioned in your addressing her depression overall, the overlay still allowed for certain aspects of Sumire to shine through and I honestly think it would cause her overall mental state to deteriorate had she not run into Joker and Joker... Well, Joker's his way through the confidant route. ...Joker might actually be a really good councillor. Anyhow, as a general cliffnotes on my thoughts as Maruki as a councillor, he doesn't want to help, he wants to FIX, which is an incredibly de-humanising way of looking at it if you ask me. Also, it's worth noting you can find a dairy in his place that outright states that Sumire is the first case of him doing an overlay of that sort of scale and he's cautious enough to keep an eye on her to see how it goes before trying something like that again.

[@juniorSM_]

when *the statement* appeared and you walked out, i was laughing the hardest ive laughed in a while!!! ur videos are excellent, i love you!! keep going, my friend! 💝

[@ThoughtBubbleYT]

That really means a lot, and I'm glad you enjoyed it! I don't have any plans to stop making videos! :)

[@gulusgammamon]

I juuuuust finished p5r the other night and this really made me solidified in fighting maruki and even disregarding the third semester, he actively projects his OWN insecurities onto other people and thinks everyone should be like him, disregarding grit 100% as a way to grow, even if people were able to have a moment of happiness because of him because the happiness he projects is not healthy, it's pure delusion and Sumire is his prime example of this. She never fully heals, he leashes her up basically as his own personal pet project, even if he intended good things.

[@mystery8820]

Worse, he controlled her Persona akin to shock collars controlling a wild beast, commanding it to attack while inflicting severe pain on both the Shadow self and its owner, contradicting Maruki’s M.O.

[@gulusgammamon]

@@mystery8820 Oh ABSOLUTELY. That's such a far line hit after immediately RETRAUMATIZING her!!!

[@mystery8820]

@@gulusgammamon Sumi may have healed PROPERLY, now. But she’s gonna live with a scar somewhere in her heart all life long. Even if she appears in sequels/spinoffs. It’s a scar you can’t see nor feel, but it is there. Not to get you down but covering wounds and not treating them properly can make the wound fester or even leave scars.

[@gulusgammamon]

@@mystery8820 Oh yeah. I'm still working through scars of my abuse myself. You never get through them in days, weeks, months, or even years. It just doesn't help when the moments of trauma that pop up are used to manipulate and gaslight you into believing something you don't normally

[@mystery8820]

@@gulusgammamon BTW, after playing P5R the first time, did you end up romancing Sumi at the end of the game?

[@collybollyproductions9534]

Imagine learning you were actually your sister...

[@guestb8389]

50% of Therapists recommend to not be yourself. (Therapist sample size: 2 Therapists)

[@lens_hunter]

I require "Ideal and the Real" to be the background music for all of my future therapy appointments.

[@SmashBrosOdyssey64]

Holy shit, the pain in your eyes at 24:40. You can tell this is setting off your every alarm bell as a councilor. THESE are the kind of reaction videos we need on KZbin, instead of the over dramatic pantomime we normally get.

[@KennyKakes1]

First thing first: 20:10 I died. That was so funny, your reaction! I remember watching this scene when I played through for the first time a few months back and thinking "what on earth did you just say Maruki?" It's so absurd. I don't think you'd have to have any understanding of the theory behind therapy or even just general mental health to know why this is so destructive to Sumire. I'm going to be honest here, you asked what we think of Maruki's methods, and I feel like that this session and Joker's session really just show the truth behind it all: Maruki has a theory, and that's what he's here to prove. He's posing as a counselor to test his hypothesis, that an easy lie is better than a hard truth. That any solution that takes the least amount of pain is ultimately best. If Maruki was not so poorly dealing with his own problems, and truthfully wanted to counsel people as a therapist, I think he'd be okay. He wouldn't be able to help everyone, as his blunders that you pointed out in other videos seem to be more related to his personality than his short-comings, but I could see him being very beneficial to clients that he meshes well with. And to be honest, this is true for the real world as not every counselor is going to be good for every client. So all things considered, I think he'd be moderately successful in a private practice office. The issue is, he's not doing this because he wants to or even because this was the job ended up in - He's doing it out of an obsession with ill intent. We see this in full force when he basically prays on Joker since he found his "ah-ha!" moment. And because of that, he would never even have made a mediocre counselor until he deals with that, even if he also wanted to be a traditional counselor. Also, I never ever thought about what you said at 31:12, I never thought about what he may have been doing to his other clients. We know Maruki is in this for his own research and proving his hypothesis. We also know Maruki is a researcher and scientist. Any scientist knows no amount of research can just be based off one single instance. It's very likely Maruki had quite a few people he tried to brainwash, as well as a few control groups that he didn't try to brainwash. The interesting (yet terrifying) thing is, and correct me if I'm remembering this wrong, but Maruki did not have the powers of actualization until 12/24 at the absolute earliest. What this means, Maruki must've performed conventional brainwashing tactics that could and would've been performed in the real world - meaning, what Maruki did to Sumire could very well plausibly happen to anyone, which is a fridge horror if I've ever seen one, and it's even more horrifying to think he did this to a defenseless teenage girl. Imagine going into counseling to get better and someone takes advantage of that and brainwashed you for their own research. That's scary. Great video as always!

[@MERKSWW]

As a councilor (Don't quote me on this) Im fairly certain that its Maruki's job to help the service user find a way to help themselves as well as giving suggestions, using their connections etc. Maruki just says nah i got you, not giving the service user a chance to figure everything out

[@ruki4929]

I think a key thing maruki is missing is nuance: he's never going to 100% know a client's life, so he can't say for certain what will help them, or if it is achievable for them. But he decided granting what people want somehow makes people happy.

[@drasconboy6349]

This is probably the biggest red flag against Maruki and his world. While I could sympathize and understand the rest of his intentions, this one straight up strips the individuality from Sumire in order to keep her from addressing her problem

[@shadowotter2880]

"In a perfect world" Everybody felt that

[@matt4at]

I mean it’s the reason his palace turns out the way it is cause he come of kind and like he’s helping but he’s only giving them an escape rather than helping. That’s why he is the way he is, he’s not really super helpful which is the purpose of him being there and ending up with a palace. Not really supposed to see him as a real counselor lol.

[@ThoughtBubbleYT]

I mean they write him pretty well as someone who clearly has training as a counselor who just has a blatant disregard for ethics to fulfill his own agenda with this session being the most blatant. He wouldn't nearly be as cool a character if it was that simple even doing pretty well as a counselor with Haru for example. It's definitely clear that Atlus, being the great story tellers that they are researched counseling before writing him!

[@shinigamimiroku3723]

20:23 Yeah, I'm right there with you... *FEFates "groans of increasing discomfort" meme intensifies*

[@ventusthekey5187]

I honestly didn't understand why Marukis approach was bad until I saw this scene. At first I thought, "If what he's doing is really making everyone happy, why should I stop it." Then I saw him just tell Sumire she couldn't handle her problems just from a five minute conversation, and take away her ability to choose otherwise. Maruki doesn't want to help people, he wants to decide what's best for them. It really scared me to see that happening.

[@sansgaster8120]

I can watch this entire video with the face cam being just his hands.

[@ThoughtBubbleYT]

My hands definitely have a life of their own.

[@DavidJoh]

I'm inclined to to take Sumire's therapy session nonliterally and assume it actually took a few sessions for her to open up. It's like Law and Order where dozens of hours of litigation are collapsed into 22 minutes. The pace of real life is too slow for TV and for cut scenes. As for Maruki he's as ethical as you can reasonably expect considering that he's a supervillain. Actually that's a real problem for superhero stories and their Japanese equivalents. Therapy gets such a bum rap because by its nature it's a threat to secret identity-driven narratives. Then again other genres aren't that much better because actually good therapy is about avoiding drama instead of creating it.

[@rohanlawrence5161]

Dude you were fifty shades of done with maruki! You looked like you wanted no part of the session after a while lmao. For good reason too. He essentially killed sumire which meant at the moment both sisters were dead. It's just disturbing how he can so nochalantly deny people the chance to grow past their pain. For a person to be grieving about the Lost of a love one one moment and then to not only forget but think they are that loved one? All levels of wrong. Thanks for the video as always man. Love hearing your thoughts on these!

[@lsebastian9086]

Maruki with the incident there he had commited one huge mistake and fatal flaw in what he is supossed to do: Rather than a councilor, who is meant to eb a guide, he became a genie or equivalent of the fairy godmother: Conceding wishes but them not being an effective long term solution that would fix things properly.

[@TheBasedTyrant]

Sumire: "I want to be Kasumi." Maruki: "You can! Just believe in herself! Not yourself though, your pretty useless."

[@WailingGita]

In my eyes yes Sumire had an absolute inferiority complex she had major depression and wasn't the aggressive, brash type that her sister was. I relate to this way similarly in that I don't know music theory all too well compared to my peers and didn't study it so I do experience some envy and discouragement sometimes feeling lukewarm and bouncing off different emotions and being unsure where to map things. She also didn't much of a social outlet other than her sister (Who was pretty much her best friend) she was a bit of an outcast although she did have a loving father so it seems. (Although he seemed to be a busy journalist from what I remember) So basically in a nutshell her best friend who she idolized passes and they didn't have the best relationship since Kasumi would tease and joke with her when she was down and underperformed in school and didn't have any outlets there either. And geez Sumire needs a support system and a hug. To summarize Sumire is a modest and well mannered girl who is quite disciplined with gymnastics but doesn't have a valid support system and her large support system that was shaky is no longer with us.

[@jacobfreeman5444]

Kasumi was trying to help Sumire, but lacked an idea how to do so. Not realizing that it was how Sumire saw her that was the problem. If she had it is possible we would have seen a side of Kasumi that wasn't this bold, unflappable young woman. I suspect what the coach says about Kasumi being a bit envious of her sister's style was true. It reveals somethimg about their relationship the sister's never got to explore. That they were each other's hero. Best friends. Kasumi would have been devastated in much the same was Sumire was if it was Sumire that died. Their relationship wasn't healthy because they never got a chance to talk about these emotions so they could come to a new balance. It was Kasumi trying to act like she had when younger and hoping it would inspire her sister like it used to. And Sumire misinterpreting it because of her own depression and feelings of inferiority.

[@arcflamearcanum7579]

At the very least by the end of the game, the man realizes all of his faults. And as you've demonstrated with all of your videos, Maruki is in no way, shape, or form fit to be a counselor. Hell, with all of these irredeemable unethical blunders he's made, it's pretty reasonable to say that he should not work in any sort of thereputic-Hell, ANY MEDICAL PROFESSION ever again. It'd be like if Akechi decided to continue his work as a detective after getting outed. You just have no place to work in that sort of profession anymore, it's a spit in the face towards the people who actually DO abide by ethics and DO want to work their job the proper intended way. So seeing how frustrated you got during this session was incredibly satisfying. lol. And in the end, Maruki does quit his job. I'd like to believe he realizes how badly he ****cked up by himself and so is moving towards a new future for himself the proper way.

[@Donnasoph]

Ye that part is disturbing to encourage the delusion ends up her just re experiencing grief and trauma all over again and then he said “all due to her survivors guilt” and im like “who’s faults that” thankfully she recovered eventually usualy hard to do on your own

[@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343]

Yeah Maruki gave everyone what they wanted... When in reality, he should have prioritized helping them get what they needed. When I first saw this scene, I was straight up horrified as to what he did to Sumire. No matter what good intentions he had, he still made an executive decision on what he thought was best rather than giving her what she actually needed to process the grief, shame and survivor's guilt. Rather than helping her through her destructive mindset, he encouraged it.

[@popcornastoria]

When you think about it, Maruki is basically supernaturally gaslighting these kids. He's setting them up in a way he'll be able to tell them it was THEIR IDEA to have him do the things he did. To say nothing of Maruki endlessly justifying his actions to himself. No matter how noble his intentions, that is INCREDIBLY predatory. He's an AMAZING take on an unhealthy INFJ, and definitely a worthy conclusion to the 3/4/5 triad's themes of martyrdom and the hero/messiah/savior complex. (YMMV, but IMO the only truly selfless act of martyrdom is in Persona 3 but that's besides the point) I used to relate a lot to Maruki, but the more time went on, the more horrified and just viscerally, skin-crawling-ly DISGUSTED I was with him. One of the best villains, definitely. 👌🏼

[@mystery8820]

Like Granny Goodness, one of Darkseid’s generals in DC comics. Maruki basically has the Anti-Life Equation.

[@ruki4929]

The one thing that nags me about his approach is that he's basically granting wishes, right? But wishes are so hollow and flimsy: most of the time, we don't know what we actually want. So if I got what I wished for, I'd probably still feel dissatisfied with it. Even just talking about removing pain: sure, there's the whole thing about finding strength from it, but also all the insights you get from it. pain is an excellent teacher. If it wasn't for my incidents, I'd still be an quiet ball of anxiety with undiagnosed Adhd and zero self-confidence. We all need cracks: that's where the light gets in.

[@Mays246]

I know nothing about counseling and this still pissed me off. Maruki is such a manipulative jerk here.

[@halkun7191]

He just wants Kasumi to be happy. In other words this was an easy way out for her that she asked for directly. She was mentally scared by that moment and its not something someone can easily overcome. Thats just my take anyways. Maruki had good intentions but its definitely controversial.

[@jacobfreeman5444]

@@halkun7191 Not controversial. Wrong. Even if she thinks she would be better as Kasumi it was terrible of him to act on that. Instead of helping her face her problems and deal with them, which would be time consuming given how deep this issue is embedded in her psyche, he avoided her pain and kept her from growing by forcing her to wear a mask of personality. We know her problems were still there because of her interactions with Joker. She was just unable to process her own emotional state because she had this shell known as "Kasumi" keeping her distant from it. Anything not Kasumi-like was rejected. I know she felt it did help her in a twisted way...but I am actually sure it didn't. It allowed her to pretend to be okay, when in fact she was stagnating and stewing in her own suppressed emotions. She wasn't growing, either as a gymnast nor as a young woman. She frequently reports emotions opposite to what she presented when in a position to trust and be honest with someone. It should have been Maruki who was helping her deal with these emotions. Getting her to realize that Sumire was just as good as Kasumi but had a different style. To celebrate who she is and treasure what she had with her sister rather then feel like an inferior copy of her. No doubt the reason she reacts so violently to no longer being able to pretend to be Kasumi is because those emotions were never dealt with, just suppressed. Of course she would lash out when the festering wound on her heart is revealed. It doesn't mean what Maruki did was right for her. It means he failed to treat her and then deliberately inflamed that pain for his own profit. Tl;dr Maruki was a selfish jerk who mistreated his own patient just so he can justify continuing to run away from problems. Both his and those of other people.

[@arandomguy231]

Allan Vang His intentions were good but what he did was not how things should go. (Spoilers) He doesn’t want her to feel pain so he removed it. The easy way out is not always the best option, we need that pain.

[@ThoughtBubbleYT]

It really is incredibly damaging and everything a counselor shouldn't be.

[@BobbyTheGamerOfJUSTICE]

I wouldn’t go as far as to say he’s being manipulative in a negative way. He’s just incredibly misguided.

[@garmmermibe5397]

I would... (facetiously) argue that Maruki was never a bad councilor because he never was a councilor in the first place. He seems to have be able to actualize people before he ever began his counseling career. And, despite the fact "councilor" may have been his job title, he never really counciled anyone; he interrogated people while disguising it as counciling. He found what he perceived as being harmful to them by asking his clients about themselves, and then he forcibly removed those things that caused what he perceived as harm. I think he knew very well that he wasn't counciling his clients. He was just waiting for them to let slip what their wishes were. That said, even if I don't exactly consider him a counselor, I still find what he did to be completely unethical. And, as another commenter pointed out, it was very disturbing and vile and Maruki did a huge disservice to Sumire by making her look totally fucking insane having her running around for a year introducing herself as Kasumi to everyone who knew she was Sumire. If the poor girl were still in her own mind, she'd probably have been so embarrassed, she'd probably have wished she were dead and that everyone would forget she went around introducing herself as a dead girl. Despite all that though, I still cant help but love Maruki.

[@Xolcor]

I knew that what he said about wanting to be Kasumi wasn't good, but I didn't realize it was quite THAT damaging. I agree with what you're saying, but out of curiosity, what would you have told Sumire in that situation as her counselor? Also, I don't know if its the same thing, but I still wouldn't call it Autonomous as they were discussing it as a "what if" scenario. Most times in situations like those people may SAY that they want to do something, like get back at someone who wronged them. But if someone said "well, what if I told you that you CAN do that, right here, right now?", they would more often then not take a step back and go wait, I'm not sure about this anymore. Sumire didn't know that Maruki could actually do it, if she did I think she might have stopped to think about it. But Maruki took it upon himself to do it anyway (even if it was with the best of intentions), and as you said, he erased what was Sumire and she couldn't stop to say "wait, this isn't what I want".

[@ThoughtBubbleYT]

So, this is a really interesting questions and honestly I don't think I would have, at that moment, "told" her anything but instead I would have instead chosen to start processing through her thoughts and feelings and how they're effecting her in the moment, and gone from there. Because this is the moment when a red flag should go off in your head as a counselor. Because her affect is so low and she's saying her sister should have been the one to survive I would want to find out what she is genuinely experiencing in the moment. This would ideally help to stop ruminating on the past and these "what if" scenarios to a detrimental degree and could open the door to further processing so we can potentially slowly start building a roadmap for progression, and I can determine whether she's a risk to herself or others. The second piece may lead to nothing, but it would be something I would be alert of and would broach delicately and carefully just to be as sure as I can be before the session is over. I'm sorry if that's a vague answer, but that's the gist.

[@itsdimestuh_6107]

I've been waitin' for this!

[@ThoughtBubbleYT]

Hope it didn't disappoint!

[@tannerarmstrong1533]

just noticed he literally has her in a corner too

[@AdumbroDeus]

your reaction to when he said "wanting to be somebody else isn't necessarily a bad thing" was priceless. Literally left the room to do something while groaning. Which was about the same reaction I had when I first saw it. Honestly the more I look back on the sessions, the more terrifying he is in retrospect. The comparisons to conversion "therapy" is really hard for me to ignore, which make it all the more horrifying (which really makes it disappointing Persona 5 didn't have any gay main characters). Holy shit somebody get this man out of counseling!

[@sykilik101]

With regards to 29:30 where you talked about how Maruki had brainwashed her for literal months: I don't know if anyone else has touched on this, but in the beginning of the game (on the day Sojiro takes Joker to the school for the first time), while in the car, Sojiro says this after hearing a news report on the radio: ["...another accident? So that's why it's so crowded. There's been a lot of those lately. In fact, there was a real sad one just last month...it happened before you came here. If I remember right, the girl that passed away was only fifteen. Her parents have gotta be just..."] It seems to be strongly implied that this is referencing Kasumi, so if nothing else, this gives us some kind of timeframe for when Sumire first visited Maruki and underwent his brainwashing. Just thought it would be something to know with regards to thinking about how long she'd been in that state.

[@ArchsagePent]

Thoughts: 1. Glad someone already mentioned it, but the old phrase, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" applies here. 2. The office itself speaks volumes - he wants to be a researcher and not a doctor. The seating arrangement looks like it is set up more for interviews than for chatting and counseling. 3. I don't necessarily disagree about wanting to be more like another person. For example, maybe I'm struggling through something that I have to do that I don't want to do and I need some motivation to get it done. Maybe if I think something like, "my Grandpa showed with his actions that he could do XYZ, so I think I can do it too." I don't think having people who you can look up too and maybe even try to copy their behavior on occasion is a bad thing - we need examples in our lives to better ourselves. However, I agree that Maruki does this all wrong - denying who are you to become someone else will only lead to even deeper darkness later on. *Some Spoilers for Final Fantasy IV, a 29 year-old game at this point* The MC, Cecil, is forced to undergo training as a Dark Knight, which in this story, is a class that gains its power by channeling the practitioner's darker emotions into his sword skills. He is a terrible Dark Knight - he doesn't have a hateful bone in his body and just wants to protect those that can't protect themselves. FFIV is setup like a morality play with even the naming conventions. The name Cecil could be translated to mean, "blind to self-worth." When he was able to climb a mountain, literally called Mt. Ordeals, reach the peak, and then finally confront the darkness within, he was able to cast off the "false mask" of the Dark Knight and become a Paladin, a warrior the derives its strength from its purer emotions. *End of Spoilers* Sumire eventually gets there too, but she had to get there despite Maruki and not because he helped guide her to the path of becoming her best self. It was more the Phantom Thieves and her coach that helped her reconcile her pain and uncertainty, which finally lets her begin the journey of becoming Sumire - not Kasumi, not who her friends and family think should be, but to begin to grow into who you are, which I believe is a lifelong process.

[@LocktheChest]

He always strikes me as someone who never should have ended up as a counselor, and you can see that in his backstory. It was absolutely a choice made without much thought after his research was taken, and as such I don't think he ever put the thought or care into "Why" he was becoming a counselor other than "It's related to my research". Good intentions were part of it, him wanting to help people is a big part of his character, but he never stops to consider if he's doing the right thing or considering his own weaknesses when choosing an alternate career path. THAT is what's so dangerous about him, that he never questions himself or his actions, he just takes the easiest solution to make someone feel better.

[@TrivatorGaming]

This video proves my point in why I'm still shocked that there are people who prefer the fake reality ending where self-actualization doesn't exist.

[@jmspikey]

Personally i never thought Maruki was trying to help her trough counseling but more of trying to test out his whole Actualization theory cause lets be real no actual therapist would do what he did here.

[@royaldance26]

at this point, it's ridiculous that a protagonist with the powers of satan is a better therapist Even Though He's Not Really A Neutral Party than compared to someone with the powers of an ancient cthulu monster

[@mystery8820]

Especially if the the cthulhu monster dreamt up the entire universe and it shatters if he ever woke up. Edit: Scratch that, the ancient Chthulhu monster is just Space Satan.

[@DarthCalliope]

You are such a wholesome person. When you walked away to yell, I was like: "Same, friend, same." I admire your compassion and passion.

[@bulbasour2476]

It was all fine up until 20:07...

[@redx3009]

Maruki is the one that needs therapy.

[@jj_grabes]

This pisses me off so much now. Sumire is at the lowest possible point in her life and Maruki is subjecting her to something that won’t help her. And it’s that same rage that will be kept bottled up until she tries to kill me (I say me, but it’s Joker) after spending a year together and improving our relationship. Stuff like this has honestly made me lose a lot of sympathy for Maruki and agree with *Akechi* (the psychopathic murderer) more than him.

[@mystery8820]

To paraphrase DBZ Abridged in the Cell saga: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fqDUe2RsgNmGhJY This is essentially Joker and Crow’s response to Maruki. It’s just too appropriate to use.

[@jj_grabes]

@@mystery8820 *This was me when Maruki rigged Cendrillon after Sumire’s boss fight WHAT THE FUCK?!?*

[@mystery8820]

@@jj_grabes You would have wanted him dead afterwards weren’t you?

[@jj_grabes]

@@mystery8820 Let’s just say I wasn’t feeling bad during the 2/3 punchout

[@mystery8820]

@@jj_grabes At least that twisted side of him is gone past 2/3. And yes, that slugfest at 2/3 felt good.

[@Dinklr]

Spolier warning: Maruki is easily the most interesting villian in any videogame i've ever seen. i really like how he isn't a moustache twirling villian like kaneshiro but actually a human being who wants to help others, just he doesn't understand that dealing with ur problems and overcoming them is the most important thing to grow as a person. throughout ur life u will have many emotions: some positive and some negative and it's what makes us human. by "fixing" people's problems without their permission he's essentially forcefully striping them of their humanity because it's what he thinks is best for them, him being a councilor also gives the player very clever foreshadowing to his motivations as well as highlighting the ways his ideals clash with traditional councilling which focuses on working through people problems with them instead of using marin karin on their minds to make them only have good feelings and fun and good times. while i don't like the fact they stray far from the vigilante thief aspect of the game in royal, i think that a villian who makes a philosophical argument about happiness is much more interesting and entertaining than a " hoo boy , i murdered 800 people today and i feel no remorse, also i caused climate change and caused trump to get into government," kind of villan ever could be.

[@Beefaronii_]

I love how this was done probably on purpose, to show that Maruki shouldn't have ever been a counselor. He wasn't trying to be one at first, but was forced into it after his old career was crushed, and after the whole game he becomes a taxi driver and quits counseling.

[@triplepain522]

I found it interesting how in persona 5 royal (3rd semester spoilers btw) The phantom thieves change criminal's hearts in the present with the goal of creating a better future while in contrast Dr. Maruki changes people's cognitions of past events with the goal of creating a perfect world in the present

[@paddythelegend1671]

"I want to be my dead sister and genuinley wish I died instead" "lmao watch this"

[@Ladyluckdoubtable]

The office set up drew my attention too. In addition to the desk between them, notice how she's literally up against the wall/backed into a corner in that position? It makes the office look more like an interrogation cell. I was never sure if this was intentional from Atlus or not due to camera angles or wanting to show her face rather than his, but sitting in her position would be really nervewracking.

[@Neon_Chameleon]

The analogy I use to describe Maruki's counselling is that it's about as ethical as conversion therapy.

[@cn_soraa]

Hoo boy, this was a rough one. I wanted to bash my head into a wall when I first saw this scene. Wonderful analysis as usual!!

[@wackofiasco1]

I love your channel! I am currently pursuing an undergraduate degree in Psychology and was looking to get into mental health counseling as well as a concentration so it's very interesting to hear you break down these sessions (even if it's just a video game and Maruki is kind of... well.. haha!)

[@ThoughtBubbleYT]

I'm so glad you enjoy it! Mental Health Counseling is definitely a tough but incredibly rewarding field, so if it's something your interested in then I definitely would recommend it. The world could always use more amazing mental health professionals.

[@grandarkfang_1482]

When I got to this point in the game, I just ended up calling Sumire "Cloud Strife." Because that is all I can see in her after this moment.

[@FF-tp7qs]

The thing that bugs me about Marukis Actualization is what happens if any two people's ideal world is mutually exclusive, for example person A wants to be the richest man in the world, while person B wants all money in the world to cease to exist?

[@kirby1781]

Probably chose the most selfless/purer option. I mean, people like Kamoshida seemingly weren't effected so he wasn't doing it for everybody. He'd probably do a or maybe neither with both seeming like it would hurt more people than make them feel better.

[@smolboi9659]

The greatest problem I have with this counseling session is the lack of autonomy and the deception. Sumire does not know that she could actually be Kasumi even though she wishes for it. After actualization she does not have a choice to reconsider if this is what she wants. If I were Maruki, I would advertise my actualization upfront and tell my clients what I think are the pros and cons of actualization (getting rid of pain short term vs overcoming inferiority complex and depression long term) and then do what the client decides. Of course this is not counseling at this point. Hence I don't think wanting to be your dead sister is neccessarily a bad thing as long as the cost benefit has been analyzed and is their informed decision.

[@VeeTuTonic]

I thoroughly enjoyed this enstalment. How dangerous Maruki is, is something I have voiced and been shot down too many a time because people like his personality. To me, he is a villain and always was. He thinks his way is the only way. He manipulates those around him constantly and from the start. He thinks he's doing people a favour when he'd essentially making everyone totally helpless. Adversity gives strength and without that the slightest hardship would crush you. He never stops to think what happens to everyone after he's gone, he's not immortal. To answer your final question, I think he is a bad Counselor as he does not follow any rules that someone in that position should as he's so blinded by his own ideology.

[@mystery8820]

I believe you. That cult of personality is WHY he is, if not, THE most dangerous antagonist in all of media. His words seem tasty on first bite, but it contains are very lethal toxin on large doses. Enough to strip you of your willpower and become a hive slave to his psientific Eden. Though personally, I just wanted to say no to his reality because I love Sumire too much and couldn’t forgive what he did to her.

[@RafikiafReKo]

First time I played this, this was the session that got me thinking Maruki is not a councillor. I've suffered from clinical depression for years and if a councillor acted like that, I would change in a heartbeat or lock myself in.

[@harryunderwood9387]

I still don't understand why people honestly believe Maruki's right. He's not there to discuss his methods with you, he's there to damn near coerce you into s̶u̶b̶m̶i̶t̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ agreeing with him. You should never assume you know everything, especially when it comes to science or "psience". Plus, Maruki is far from some all-knowing entity, and so would rather dash your entire personality if he doesn't think it'll end well, despite the fact that he's clearly biased. There's also the SMT fan in me who just sees another YHVH in the making. He'll happily rewrite your whole life if he can't get his way, as if there's no actual discussion that needs to be had. It really is like dealing with a child who has the powers of an actual deity.

[@mystery8820]

Exactly. Yes it’s been a year but… I am now HORRIFIED by that “man”. Forget what happened in the Kamoshida Arc with Ann, what Maruki did in the story was way worse, Sumire wasn’t his client, she was… his doll to play with.

[@F1areon]

Yeah, the entire point is that he's basically just Yaldabaoth 2.0. It baffles me that not only do people just ignore that, but I feel like the game itself kinda forgot that too. O_o

[@ikarikaoka]

I find this discussion super interesting and I believe that your point of view was very enlightening. Personally, I think it can be very tempting to be able to "modify" a person and their "reality" so that the person experiences manufactured and monitored happiness. This reminds me of the concept of virtual reality in the "future" as in the Cyberpunk universe where the advancement of technology can provide access to "fantasies"/artificial scenarios/unthinkable experiences/etc. in a credible and tangible way to your senses. I keep thinking: if humanity had access to these methods of "escapism" and "self-deception" in such rich detail, I think that many people would rather live a paradisiacal lie than continue living their "normal" lives.

[@StoryTeller796]

How would one imagine Maruki treating autism and other neurodiversities and disabilities, the LGBTQ community or immigrants with his Actualization? Does everyone think that he would actualize a reality where they are accepted or would he actualize a reality where they are all "cured" because to me he raises some incredible questions with his "cure" of Sumire's depression into the fact that Maruki is a well-meaning yet ableistic and potentially racist and queerphobic individual if he finds the means justifiable to clear someone's pain.

[@Guntagirl212]

I love how worked up you got about this! You are really passionate about this field. It really shows me that you are going to be great therapist.

[@wJermell0]

This might be a long comment. TL;DR Actualization could have had potential as like a temporary patch in desperate cases but that's not what Maruki is doing. This session is like watching a powerline go down into a puddle of gasoline. No one is outright malicious but just knowing their natures and circumstances you know what's going to happen here. When I played through this in Royal I thought this was like his first counseling session at Shujin, assuming that he didn't even have his office yet. That was clearly a mistake giving him too much credit, it's his private practice. While I'm giving him too much credit already let's assume he only uses Actualization when a client has issues that are clearly over his head, and that he's only used it twice. I get where he's coming from: Rumi would have been comatose without him, Sumire looked like she was getting close to suicide and they needed help. But this isn't a real solution! Maybe MAYBE this ability could be used as a temporary patch. Get Rumi on her feet because you can't help a comatose client very much can you? Let "Kasumi" begin the grieving process for a sister without having survivors guilt compacted on top of that. I mean she still believes her sister died, she just no longer believes it's her fault...and also believes she is her sister >.> But that's not how he's doing this. This isn't a temporary crutch that gets them on their feet to begin recovering, from Maruki's point of view he's helping them in a way only he can. This is the cure and the fact that he's getting immediate positive feedback is just going to further cement this idea that not only can he do good with this power, but that he has already found a perfect solution that needs no adjustments and can do no wrong. Ironically I think Maruki would have made a better psychiatrist than therapist because he tries to "cure" his clients rather than empower them, though hell the way he encourages delusions maybe not. I swear it's like watching some twisted worst possible interpretation of what I'd do with powers like his, shit's scary man.

[@ThoughtBubbleYT]

I agree completely with everything you said, though I'd say he should stay away from mental health entirely because in all honesty, he can't be trusted to be able to remove his own bias from his counseling relationships.

[@Vitz_atelier]

"Thought exercises like, 'Would that person do this?' or realizations like 'That person wouldn't do that...' " He kinda normalizes her unhealthy mindset by acting like her situation is as mundane as what he is describing on that line and it's kind of funny seeing this again in this video after finishing the game by myself.

[@JoshPowlison]

This is a pretty fascinating thing for you to look into. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, that's cool!

[@Alibaba-he7ro]

Out of all the horrible counseling approaches Maruki does here, there is one that sticks out to me as being especially terrible. How does Yoshizawa SEE??? Glasses aren’t the type of thing you can just remove because you think you are your sister. As a therapist he was already iffy, but removing your client’s eyesight is by far one of the worst things he does to Sumi. No wonder she hit a slump, she couldn’t see

[@BobbyTheGamerOfJUSTICE]

Alibaba37 Umm, I think it’s as simple as he made it so Sumire could see as Kazumi. Remember, Maruki literally has the ability to alter reality. So he could have easily fixed Sumire’s eyesight.

[@DavidJoh]

Apparently she's like the protagonist who is also wearing a set of glasses for effect and not because his vision needs correction. Which is why he takes them off to check his messages when he's alone. I mean what juvenile delinquent wears glasses? Then again it's possible that both sisters needed vision correction and Kasumi just wore her contacts while the spotlight averse Sumire didn't. At least not when she wasn't doing her gymnastics.

[@reaNandriod]

When I saw this scene from a playthrough had been hooked in, I thought, "What the hell is wrong with Dr. Maruki?" and the advice was horrible even if you are not a counselor. When I saw this video and how Mr. John explained it by his wordings. My mind went, "Maruki is Horrible."

[@nerdybirdnerd916]

It's so funny to me that Maruki still insists on making Sumire believe she's Kasumi instead of just,,,, bringing Kasumi back to life? Likes he's shown to be capable of? Really just shows how unwilling he is to admit when he's made a mistake.

[@F1areon]

Remember, for most of this story arc, Sumire HATES herself and thinks she's responsible for "murdering" her sister, and subsequently believes everyone would be happier if she was dead and Kasumi was the one who survived. That's why they stick w/ the "Kasumi" overlay and not just resurrecting the real Kasumi.

[@FlankingLinex]

This comment has spoilers for P4 and P5R. Great video. You brought up a good point about how long Maruki's mental tampering will last. Once his power jumps up a notch after the New Year and he taps in to Mementos, it's implied that his power is similar to that of a god, including bringing people back to life. However, he's still getting used to his power. What happens when two people's "ideal" realities conflict with each other? Can anyone die in his new world? If he's not immortal, what happens when Maruki dies? What's interesting is the parallels between him and Adachi from Persona 4 (especially Golden). Both of them are young adults that represent a path that the main character could have taken. They both recognize the world as unfair and wish to overwrite it with a new reality. However, their visions of this new world are wildly different - compare the Magatsu Inaba dungeon in P4 and Maruki's Palace in P5R. I think Maruki is a very well-meaning person, and my favorite adversary in the series, and I hope he has some role to play in the future. Not as a counselor, obviously, but perhaps as an advisor on Cognitive Psience for Mitsuru's organization, if they decide to continue that thread?

[@Die-Coughman]

Maybe I should distort my client's cognition to spice up my counseling sessions.

[@Sanliontiger]

i think they might have adressed your worry about other clients the same way the 3rd semester was dealt with. Lavenza mentions that the world returns to the path it should have taken after you defeat Maruki. that is why Joker wakes up in jurvernile prison. maybe that is the same for his clients? though you could also be right about them since the reversal may only count for after he became master of mementos after Yaldabaoths defeat.