Skill Checks and Role Playing

[@zagobelim]

0:14 "This is the worst of the things that computer RPGs inherited from tabletop RPGs". The video could have ended right there and would already be great.

[@_purplewinter_]

I like skill checks that allow you to find modifiers to it as you explore the world or talk to other characters. Say you have a check with a npc that you can't pass but you're exploring their home and happen to find an important information of them so the second time you speak to that character now you have a +1. Nothing really has to change in the writing of what happens (maybe 1 line or 2) but it already changes the experience of the player and it's not that expensive. Or also the ones where you can "train" your thievery skills by doing exclusively thievery things so in that way you still feel like playing a thief

[@jjoshpoland]

The original Deus Ex is a good example of how the content doesn’t have to be expensive. Level design can include multiple paths to the finish and each have skill or gear checks that might be circumvented by just finding a different path.

[@histhoryk2648]

If game has an option related to parameters, the game should hide that option until you reach high enough level. For example if you need 60 strength to intimidate a person, but you have just 30, don't show me that option i dialogue menu. Psychologically if I see that skill check, I try to max that parameter before conversation even starts just to be able to use that option.

[@buttercup9926]

i completely see your point, and agree with it in many ways. however, i think it's ok if, staying with the theif role play, that sometimes, either due to bad luck, or insufficiently practiced skills, you can't get the lock open, or you fail to break into the abandoned church before sunrise, etc. that's just realistic. what i think you are onto though is the mechanical and boring nature of just choosing "pick lock" or "break in" and then it's a single dice roll or whatever. what if u actually had gameplay elements that incorporated something like, sub-skill points such as "lockpicking pad locks" "lockpicking doors" "bump key proficiency" etc, and the more you succeed and these, thats how u get more points to those subskills? and maybe the gameplay could involve multiple steps that are more engaging then just choosing "pick lock" such as deciding which picks to use from tour kit, and which way to move them, etc.

[@nestorskip9410]

I would love to hear you discuss knowledge-based unlocks in games.

[@isaacj.p.7657]

If the dveloper decides the extra content is too expensive would a potential middle ground be to adjust the reward based on the skill level? So there would be no fail state, you can always unlock the door. But the degree of success depends on the skill check? Say, the amount of gold or quality of items on the other side of the door increases with whichever skill is used for the check. Now that I'm writing it down it feels a bit shallow but maybe an idea for someone on a tight budget.

[@CraigPerko]

I'm thinking if your budget won't fit a game where the player can have different roles expressed meaningfully, maybe you'd be best off making a game where the player has one role that's well-expressed.

[@NeoShameMan]

The problem with skill check is that progression within that check, unlike combat skills check, is not a maze of state. It's flat. Most rpg default to combat because just swapping stats, party composition or enemy party, is enough to compose complex emergent maze to traverse. Lockpick is a prime example, while it's possible for combat to be as shallow, like attack and quaff potion, the moment you add enemy with more interesting behavior like buff and debuff loop, it leave most skill check in the dust. Skill check are then no more than locks and key or resources gating. Dialogue ain't better, they only rise as much as being static maze that is solved only once. Rethinking skill check as complex state change within interesting progression, might open them to be more engaging.

[@CraigPerko]

Yeah, that's the heart of it. The skill check should allow you to play your role, not just let the computer tell you whether you allocated your points well enough to pass a standardized test.

[@TheAssassin642]

What does it mean when you're playing a normal table-top RPG and you fail a skill check? For example, picking a lock. Does that make you not a thief? How would you compare random dice roll skill checks vs Fallout (New Vegas), where there's a hard requirement for certain options, or even hacking where you *have* to have a certain level to hack something or you're just not allowed.

[@CraigPerko]

A GM is a powerful thing.