Can a River Be A Person? | Indigenous Traditions: Crash Course Religions #7

[@viccie211]

My religious studies teacher in high school was a devout christian and taught in a very condescending way about the other religions he had to teach about from the curriculum (This also meant that we got the bare minimum about other religions while we spent about two years on christianity and judaism). Even though I was and am a christian myself it always felt wrong the way he taught this. I'm telling all this because I want to thank you, John and the team, for your work in this series. You're teaching this in the way I would have never dreamed such a topic could be taught. With respect, dignity, an open mind to what is important to people from all over the world and some wholesome humour sprinkled in.

[@GoldZephonian]

Hi guys! Kiwi here. Thanks for covering this, it was covered so well! Some pronounciation notes: - Typically the blend “wh” in most Māori dialects is pronounced “F”, but in the dialect of the local iwi, Wanganui is actually pronounced “w” as you did, so good job on that! - the intonation on “tangata whenua” was a wee bit off, so probably worth looking at again the next time te reo comes up. Overall great work and thanks for covering this and good on you for having a go, ka pai e hoa!

[@thenaiam]

9:55 the fact that the US Supreme Court deemed that corporations can be people is really telling of what the US religion is.

[@NinaDmytraczenko]

The Marañón River in Peru also got it's rights recognized in 2024! The Kukama indigenous women fought hard for this, and now the River has been recognized to have the rights to "exist, flow, and be free from pollution" ❤

[@AP-ds9pj]

Instead of “belief” I prefer to think of it as “ways of being”. People live with the river in the same way they live with each other. A couple of rivers and Mother Water have been granted legal personhood in Peru as well.

[@bmckelvy5717]

…Y’know, the point that we legally recognize corporations as people does make the recognition of a river’s personhood seem a lot less silly

[@Twilight_Lady0]

I learn so much from John. He just makes so much sense in his videos that I'm more curious about this stuff than I have been in 6 years ö

[@TheK3vin]

6:45 he SAID he was kidding but he did NOT switch to Camera 2 😂

[@Ylemonade]

This entire concept needs to be applied to a lot of things in the environment, honestly.

[@_shreyagautam]

The fact that people living centuries ago, on opposite sides of the globe, had similar religious beliefs is fascinating.

[@cavemann_]

Reminds me a lot of the Japanese religious traditions. I've always found this way of interpreting the world to be beautiful.

[@sampriceandeverythingnice]

Yay this is my favorite notification I get all week! It’s religion nerd time! 😊

[@pedrostormrage]

Crash Course Philosophy described personhood as the quality of "deserving moral consideration". I don't know about the moral part (I don't really have any way of connecting to the spiritual/sentient part of Te Awa Tupua), but considering a river as a person reminds me of the Gaia hypothesis (about the Earth itself behaving as a single, self-regulating organism). At the very least rivers (and also nature in general) deserve ecological consideration, seeing how we depend on them for things like water, food (fishing), transportation, and (hydro) power. Moreover, it's quite possible that the religious/spiritual consideration came from recognizing the ecological importance (so much so it transcended to the non-mundane/sacred sphere), so that's basically another way of expressing something we all should recognize.

[@AndrewMcColl]

It's not just the rivers the Māori consider ancestors. Mountains, or Maunga, are also considered ancestors, or tipuna. They take this seriously enough that Taranaki received a credit in the movie The Mountain (2024).

[@whangadude]

Kia ora, looks like I'm the first Kiwi to leave a comment. Thanx for making this John

[@pssurvivor]

if corporations can be persons then rivers definitely can

[@modernorpheus]

It's important to recognize that one person cannot dictate what another person's religion is.

[@vagoerrante]

Interesting that in order to respect and protect something, we need to make them a "person"

[@Tokidoki53899]

Love that John is doing this crash course ❤

[@GenderFluidDragonKing]

10:17 I love the idea of Saul Goodman having to do a court case for Te Awa Tupua cause someone ties to sue them.

[@WrittenButNotRead]

so happy hear about the legal win the Māori people had about the personhood of the river

[@mryea6954]

Really loving this series, and I can't wait for the new episode every time!!! シ

[@DocVerdant]

It's so nice to get to watch these things every week. Regularly scheduled pockets of learning

[@JamesWebb-ct7do]

The pronunciation made me cringe a little, but genuinely and pleasantly happy to see Māori culture and tradition on CC. Polynesian culture more broadly also follows many of the same/similar ideas and practices (note the similarities as far away as Hawaiian culture). Side note for NZ: the Māori values for treating nature as culturally and personally significant permeates NZ policies on land management and fisheries. Mt Taranaki is another great example.

[@noble_sword64]

Oh hey, the colonisers also did the same thing with the word “dharma”. Now in Hindi along with its original meaning we also use the word dharma to mean religion, since there is no word for religion in the western sense.

[@ianreddish1878]

Great episode and yes, many countries around the world, and not just Christian ones, have the same issues. Countries can claim to guarantee freedom of religion by law, but in reality, it works very differently.

[@er...]

I like my rivers like I like my women ... with rights 😉

[@eagleleft]

This is a truly educational and awesome crash course

[@sams1982]

We’re getting comments! Thanks in advance to those moderating, I’m sure it’s not an easy task on these videos

[@timseguine2]

The constitution may prohibit laws respecting an establishment of religion, but that doesn't necessarily stop them from making a law disrespecting an establishment of religion. /s

[@elfosel2469]

What an interesting insight, keep uo the good work 👍 Love from Indonesia, a land of numerous cultures and religions

[@k012957]

So much depends upon definitions. If we expand our (admittedly Western) concept of what 'Religion' is, then Indigenous Traditional beliefs are certainly 'Religion'. Similarly, we must define 'sacred' and 'belief'.

[@milosmith5326]

i cannot WAIT for next week

[@brandybaker7499]

Total side note: could we have a short of what’s included on your bookshelves?

[@bbbrly9159]

I totally get what they mean about the river being a person. I live along the Mississippi and when I'm right next to it, something about it feels alive.

[@carrocourse]

Impatiently waiting for every episode of this series. ❤

[@snorribjorn5074]

Thank you for covering this very complex topic so well!

[@ianblake815]

I didn’t know about this. Cool stuff!

[@Davlavi]

Informative as always.

[@abhishekbhardwaj4722]

In India , we already treat river as God , like Ganga,Yamuna,Kaveri etc

[@Jess-737]

Shinto people from Japan would certainly say yes (animism)

[@zoemcleod5998]

Loving this series!!!

[@unraged6004]

Great video! Keep up the good work!

[@niambim401]

Yay! Thank you!

[@cavemann_]

Sacred nature, I love it!

[@realmenchangediapers]

It's interesting how John didn't touch on the indigenous religions of Europe and the Middle East, which in many ways were very similar. There was a brief Egyptian hieroglyphic, but still - it might be good to remember that it's not like "indigenous good and europeans bad colonizers." From a religious point of view, Europe had their indigenous religions too, and a lot of its folklore lived on among regular people for a long time with beliefs of trolls and tree nymphs. Heck, leaving out milk and cookies for santa is a remnant of offering for the gnomes on the farm keeping the cows safe.

[@joshc-dev]

i love you john

[@VilcxjoVakero]

Let's hope tuberculosis isn't a person

[@theMifyoo]

Hmm, so recently I had a conversation on what it would mean if an ai was granted human rights. This video made me think person hood really isn't dependent on sentience. Like company's having personhood and even a river.

[@sneezediamonds]

YES!!!!!!!!!

[@Anakinskywalker98]

Hello John 😊

[@therongjr]

So fascinating to me that anyone so highly educated who understands that cultures the world over view "religion" so differently, but remains identified with the one that's more-or-less in which they were raised.

[@SageThyme23]

Did you not watch the video?

[@jimgorlett4269]

makes sense, it's just the way being a human is

[@Kubik.12]

u talk slower than usual now

[@zazope]

I do think granting a river personhood is not something a government should really be doing. I do believe if it is important to a religion, or seen as more than a river to a group of people then there should be protections for it, and rights given to those people to make choices about what happens to it. But officially granting it "personhood" feels arbitrary at best