CRAZIEST "Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes" Theories! (SPOILERS)

[@tylerhinton1264]

A lot of people dislike the book, but I absolutely loved it. I hope the movie adaptation doesn’t disappoint

[@TheGabb1]

I LOVED this book. I liked it way more than Mockingjay!

[@williamnissen5083]

I thinks it’s just more the negative voices drowning out the positive ones. Hate sells a lot better now days

[@kamikik8840]

It won't. It's going to be incredible. 5+ years after mocking jay part 2 they have more resources for the film. And the games are better in this one. More events, a bombing in the arena, intruders in the arena, full death order, snake mutts, jessups death, Lamina vs D4 and Tanner battle, after the games, etc

[@uravirginwhocantdrive1400]

My Ballad of 🐦 and 🐍 dream cast (UPDATED) Coriolainus Snow: Cameron Monaghan, or Ezra Miller, or Will Poutler or Jeremy Sumpter Lucy Grey Baird: Willa Fitzgerald, or Katherine Langford, or Lili Rheinhart or Anya Taylor-Joy Sejanus: Timothy Granderos, Grahmn Phillips, Tyler Possey, or Dany Ramirez Casca (Dean)Highbottom: Vincent Kassal Michael C Hall, or Williem Dafoe, or Esai Morales Tigris: Lady Gaga (farfetched), Julie Garner, Dianna Agron Dr. Gaul: Ellen Burstyn, Sissy Spacek or Judi Dench, or Michelle Pfiefer (maybe) Grandmam: Rosemary Harris Pluribus Bell: Wentworth Miller, Giancarlo Esposito, or Alessandro Juliani Lucky Flickerman: Robin Lord Taylor, or Michael Keegan Key Strabo Plinth (Sejanus father): Christopher Meloni , or Jimmy Smitts (any of these choices depending on who they pick for Sejanus) Ma (Sejanus Mother): Connie Britton, or Paige Turco, or Elizabeth Mitchell, or Madeline Stowe Dr.Kay: Michelle Yeoh Academy classmates Clemensia: Miranda Cosgrove or Danielle Campbell Livia: Zoey Deutch Peresphone: Dove Cameron or Kathryn Newton Festus: Jacob Artist, or Jan Luis Castellanos Arachne: Irene Choi, or Akwafinna Lysistrata: Ashleigh LaThrop or Ajiona Alexis Pup: Dave Franco, or Skyler Gisondo Tributes Marcus: Cody Kearsley Jessup: Noah Cetineo Lamina: Maika Monroe or Tiera Skovbye Treech: Nick Robinson, or Zachary Gordon Coral: Alycia Debnam-Carey or Naomi Scott Mizzen: Jack Dylan Grazer Reaper: Eli Goree Dill: Grace Saif Bobbin: Tyler Alvarez or Micheal Cimino or Jason Ganeo Brandy: Shannon Purser Tanner: Diego Tinoco Circ: Theodore Pellerin Teslee: Leah Lewis District 12 people Billy: Carlos Pena Vega, or Sean Teale Mayfair: Madelaine Petsch or Sophie Turner Maude: Aria Lyric Abau, Mia Tolerico Barb Azure: Phoebe Tonkin Spruce: Blair Redford, or Yani Gellman, or Ryan Guzman

[@williamnissen5083]

Andrew Colbert I kind of like John Oliver as lucky

[@miriammcgee]

Corilanus is totally a narcissist. Which accounts for his lack of empathy, vanity, and various other characteristics. But i think hes suffering with some PTSD from the war too which engenders sympathy from the reader. And then theres the duality of his origins of a gentle and comforting mother and a hard ass (probably narcissistic as well) father. And throughout the book you do have these glimpses into his torn soul, where he mimics the love and comforting nature of his mother at times, and then the proud and stoic father he hardly knew. You see him prefer her memory in the beginning... often returning to it for comfort by smelling her perfume powder, and by the end hes completely reversed and its now his dad he views as his guiding savior in the woods with his compass and all that. That his tokens of innocence (his moms powder and family pictures) are ruined and he throws them away, leaving his fathers compass (a direction giving tool) as his only heirloom to cling to says A LOT symbolically about the death of anything redemptive about him. Hes totally deep and dark and just well developed as a character. Collins really builds her characters brilliantly.

[@williamnissen5083]

I’d definitely like to hear more about that. I’m not well versed in that area but I definitely picked up a few signs of his narcissism

[@miriammcgee]

@@williamnissen5083 Narcissism is honestly scary! They're so tricky. There is so much out there on the disorder, but this video... it describes Snow exactly. kzbin.info/www/bejne/q4OwmYZspMqYnrs

[@ainsleyviets9874]

This is a really good analysis of his character. I totally agree. I feel like the only time he was truly showing emotion for himself and not for his image or as a part of a plan was after Sejanus...died...and he broke down in their room but even that didn’t last long.

[@sonorangaming449]

I would agree that he is Narcissistic, but I would says his comes from Nurture rather than nature.

[@ftbl407]

Also the quote at the beginning of TBOSAS. ‘ I think about the good intentions he started his life with, and the total destruction of al his benevolance because of the indiffernce of those who should protect him.’ Thats about him.

[@MartinaG]

I love when people say Lucy Gray is alma coin, but dont realise that Alma Coins was 50, and this happends 64 years before.

[@sudden_exlipsingstudio1728]

She probably arrived at D13 and stayed there but I also think that she could’ve came back???? Who else would have been Haymitch’s mentor?

[@clarisselu2935]

Aka_KingFlop Said i don't think haymitch had a mentor

[@Gingerchalky]

I like my own stupid theory that Lucy is the old lady in the hobb 😂 since we don’t know what happened to her I like to think this is the case, that or she was the mother/grandma to Katniss’ dad cos why the hell not 🤣

[@Gingerchalky]

Aka_KingFlop Said the lore is that before Katniss and Peeta winning there was 3 tributes from 12 that won, Lucy is the first one, and Haymitch’s mentor is the other and then Haymitch

[@Gingerchalky]

huds0810 huds0810 lol right? I know Lucy isn’t her because apparently Greasy Sae was allegedly 8-9 during the new book, so now my new stupid theory is that she is Maude Ivory 😂 also I’m very interested to see how they do the new film more so because I’m curious as to how a young snow will look as I don’t like the fan art done of him based off Donald Sutherland who played him in the film

[@ihavelemonade5640]

I really liked the Hanging Tree origin story. We assume it's a fictional song, especially the "A dead man called out for his love to flee" but no, he actually did call out dead via the Jabberjays. And we know why it was banned. It's so interesting

[@crystalember4386]

I don't think this counts as a theory, but I like to think about what was the 3 peacekeepers who were roommates with Snow reactions when he became president. Think about this from their P.O.V. This guy who was a peacekeeper for a month, passed the exam to become an officer, gave everyone the idea to get rid of a certain type of birds, and hung out with a local singer, left to go to district 2 and somehow became president.

[@deven.ferrer]

i wonder how old snow was when he became president

[@taylorbowling6760]

@@deven.ferrer Mockingjay says he was young when he rose to power by his use of poison. I'm guessing in his mid-20s, where he was an intern with the Gamemakers and had all of the Plinth's money to get him higher in ranking

[@stilscarlott]

@@taylorbowling6760 20s is wayy too young, I think 30s would be proper

[@lawriem7747]

“Yoooo, Lee from the tea shop’s the Firelord now”

[@Clooover]

@@stilscarlott He was almost 19 at the end of the book, when he started poisoning. 20s is accurate imo

[@deedeeboop7788]

I'm happy with how the book added so much dimension to Snow's hatred for Katniss. How he didn't starting hating mockingjays just coz it was Katniss' symbol. Mockingjays represented so much to him before Katniss even appeared. And then she appears, a memorable tribute from 12 just like Lucy Gray was. Snow's hate was not only coz she had rebel inclinations or because she defied the capitol. Her very existence: a victor from 12, the mockingjay symbol, her utilization of mockingjays in the games, her singing Lucy Gray's songs, her name being Katniss lol. Katniss broke Snow imo.

[@stegosaur9812]

I like Lysistrata and Clemensia. They show that some people in the capitol acctually do have a heart and are not evil as I'm pretty sure they did not like the games

[@jaredjones1752]

I was so worried my theory that Plutarch Heavensbee is the son of Hilarious Heavensbee and Lysistrata Vickers, and that he developed his sympathy for the Districts via growing up with his mother telling him the story of how Jessup saved her life, would be in this video. Especially since "crazy" and "ridiculous" are the words most often used to describe my ideas. *wipes sweat off his brow*

[@lilywashere27]

No no this could actually make sense... It's fairly justifiable by the similar economic and moral positions of the two families, and the personalities of the two characters, as well as the mentality of Plutarch. He even seems to have the right age (actually I don't think Collins said it, but I picture him as a middle-aged man)... And as far as we're concerned, there aren't that many families in the most influential caste of Capitol, so it seems very plausible to me. I think I will borrow it! (If you're okay with it)

[@ScarletGinger]

I just assumed it honestly

[@ihavelemonade5640]

I like that a lot.

[@stilscarlott]

I consider Plutarch to be the son of Hilarius but can't speculate who his wife might be

[@mikaylasnowdon]

i love this theory

[@coconoot_]

I do believe that Coriolanus did love Lucy Gray... but in a twisted way. I never sympathized with him considering his vanity and supposed greed, but I think he might be a little bit of a psychopath in the way that he was obsessed with the idea of love so much that he became obsessed with Lucy Gray. He had a twisted idea of love, so he might have grown up to believe that without Lucy Gray, he can’t love anybody. In the depths of his twisted obsession, he became obsessed with control... hence the last scene in the forest when Lucy Gray disappeared. He called out for her so many times, and started chasing her through the woods... not because he was afraid of losing her, but because of the principle behind it: nobody runs from him. If he was less obsessed with control, he probably would have let her go. This was confirmed in MY mind when he called her a “clever, devious, deadly girl.” He calls her that also because he is so set on the fact that he is a good person, that he can’t even accept the fact that he was the one who manipulated her, not vice versa.

[@el8174]

I was definitely disturbed how he kept calling her my girl (not in a romantic way, in a possessive way) and saying she belonged to him

[@maggieeileenx]

@@el8174 i wish we had more books to analyze him because even the end is open

[@ice_bead]

A theory I saw recently, based off the "Katniss's father is Maude Ivory's kid" theory: Katniss's last name is only Everdeen because of a mispronounciation. Her father was named (first name) Evergreen due to the covey naming conventions, but when he was young he mispronounced it as Everdeen and it stuck.

[@trixibelle480]

I thought this the whole way through the book. How else would her father have taught her those songs? Maude was known for remembering a song after only hearing it once. And if she married someone with the surname evergreen that would explain that.

[@pipergenkin1688]

or maude ivory marries into the everdeen family and as she’s dying she asks her son to name his first girl katniss because of the katniss by the lake she most likely would have also brought her kids to. secretly, she has another connection to the name katniss which represents rebellion against snow and maybe she’d predict katniss to become the mockingjay? idk

[@LokiLoverForever99]

I like the Maude Ivory theory. But changing you're surname because your kid mispronounced it? That's silly. The version I heard is that the Capitol/Peacekeepers in the book were slowly taking away their freedom. Forcing them to live in 12. Telling them what songs they could and couldn't sing. Aka the hanging tree. And it makes sense that they would eventually take away there naming system too. So Evergreen becomes Everdeen. And Katniss gets her name from Lucy Gray's (Maude Ivory's cousin) liking the alternative name of swamp potatoes. Which I thought was kinda funny and I can imagine Snow making some scartasic joke about it in his head about it when Katniss started the rebellion.

[@zuko5651]

I thought that katniss was related to lucy gray as well, im glad someone agrees.

[@SuperTrainStationH]

Fun theory, but the author was skating on thin ice by actually depicting the creation of the Hanging Tree song and the event it was based on. She stuck the landing, 100% and it worked for the story she was telling but she could have easily ended up all wet, which sometimes happens when prequels do the "hey let's show the origins of something that no one really asked about" thing. All that is to say, having the origin of the salute on top of that might have been too much. Plus I wanted to believe the Hanging Tree song might have been something passed down orally which pre-dated the founding of Panem, so I'm glad the idea of it being so relatively recent to Katniss' time was executed well. Fun video.

[@eduardomiranda7094]

She did this because many were completely confused by the meaning of the song.

[@jacobross6897]

I agree with you completely on this post

[@stilscarlott]

I don't think that snow didn't love Lucy Gray. He did love her. It's even mentioned in the epilogue "He would never marry anyone he loved. He hates how love makes him feel, how Lucy Gray made him feel so vulnerable. Livia Cardew would be perfect as his wife" along the lines of this. Instead of seeing him as a psychopath or sociopath entirely, we see his development of those tendencies. In the early part of the book, we see how he's always anxious and scared of everyone and everything because his secret of the Snow house might come out, he went from using his softhearted mother's powder compact to sooth him and escape reality to using Crassus Snow's compass to return to the reality aka the base and his future. We also see just how much Dr. Gaul influences his life and I think she is the main reason his sadistic tendencies were nurtured to this extent.

[@allisonmolvik8958]

I couldn't have said this better. While watching this, this was exactly what I was thinking. Although he lied and manipulated people, we heard his thoughts about how he would go back and forth between what's somewhat right and wrong. What he was doing was wrong but that was his way of surviving in an absolutely ruthless place. His environment definitely shaped him, which makes sense since in the capitol everything was going down hill and he was losing control of his life. Lucy Gray even said something along the lines of "People aren't born evil. They have to chose that path", I think that comment represents Snows progression, and how he eventually chose evil because of everything that was on the line, everything he had already lost, and Dr.Gaul insisting her views are correct while almost praising him when he expresses those same views. While he had the potential for both good and bad, his life, and the people around him growing up shaped him and pushed him to be a bad person.

[@CatherineBurk]

The things about the book that I loved was I now understand better why snow hates district 12 so much, I also love how we learned the meaning of the hanging tree song. Love learning about katniss too.

[@rhiannon113]

Something I wonder about is Lucy Grey. Is there a chance that Billy Taupe is right and she is cold and calculating? Did she use Snow as much as he used her? She sings about living by her charms, could this mean she is also taking Snow for a ride? Manipulating him to get him to help her more in the games? I don’t know, I’m not sold on it but I wonder. I just feel like she is very open ended. Especially her experience in the games. We see very little of it. So could she have been a stone cold killer? And at the end, she’s so devoted to the Covey but she leaves them behind. Is this to protect them or herself? Again, I’m not sure but there’s something that sits wrong with me about her. I wondered if anyone had that feeling?

[@Hannah003ify]

Yes! I felt the same way! I'm not sure about her character either because she very quickly turned on Snow and tried to kill him with that snake. Also shes kind of arrogant to me; cause shes really self conscious and always checking her ruffles on her dress. And she says in her interview to Snow "I love talking about myself"

[@Pixielz]

I tend to question that too... Hmm... I would love to think Lucy Gray as kindhearted and fun, but something isn't right. Take when we meet her back in 12, she does not mention Jessup, like she visited Jessup's parents to offer condolences or something in that matter which would put her character in a positive light. I do think because they are dirt poor, she does a lot of things for self preservation.

[@beckelmore8448]

@@Hannah003ify I actually finished the book last night and I didn't take the last snake to have been at attempt on his life by Lucy. He doesn't see her before or after being bitten, and there's a huge point made throughout part 3 about how wild the area is, how Snow fears the animals, etc. I think he got bitten by a wild snake he got to close too while hunting her down, and in his mind it confirmed that she was indeed trying to kill him as well. He went from "she loves and trusts me," to "were in our own personal Hunger Games," in like one second flat with zero input from her at all. We don't know if she was hiding from him, trying to kill him, or simply in the woods collecting berries and katniss when Snow opened fire. Seems more likely that she wasn't, and that he murdered the supposed love of his life in cold blood and justified it the way we saw him justify everything the Capitol does

[@Hannah003ify]

@@beckelmore8448 that's a good point! I've since read the book again and definitely started to think that maybe she wasnt trying to kill him after all! He is just really paranoid 🤔

[@lucasmonteiro8104]

In my opnion Lucy Grey is NOT that good as well.

[@unsolicitedd]

I AM an empath, and I do think Coryo did love Lucy. I have little sympathy for him, however. He probably truly did love Lucy and Tigris, but he wanted power more. And he realized that when he did get feelings for Lucy, he felt those feelings made him weak, and kept him from the power. Which is why he said he didn’t want to marry someone he loved. He said if he married someone he loved, that would distract him from obtaining the power he so definitely yearned for. This is part of the reason I think he hated Katniss and Peeta so much, because he saw Lucy grey in katniss and himself in peeta, more specifically the way peeta loved katniss. He hated them because they reminded him of what he had with Lucy grey and he was mad that they were living out the life he never got to, with her.

[@skippy8696]

'Empaths' do not exist 🙄 This is a self-appointed label based on a very broad and flimsy criterium. Seriously, astrology signs carry more weight... No psychologist/psychiatrist would ever use this in a diagnosis.

[@LawIiet1990]

My theory is: The book has no hero, but two villains - so after thinking a lot about the books whole Story and ending I feel like Lucy Gray is possibly at least as selfish and manipulative as Snow. It starts at train station: She asks how a mentor could help her and even Snow doesn't know. So she realizes, there are no written Rules which role the mentors will have and she can take full control of the mentor and create this role just as she want it to be. She saved Snows life in the truck, because she need him, not because caring for his life - also she earned his trust with this. She continued building up a romantic relationship with him, knowing a man in love will do everything - no matter how dumb or dangerous. She successfully made him acting in her interests outside of the arena - and even to break rules multiple times. Snows emotional connection to Lucy was the reason to introduce drones with food deliveries in the arena - paving the way for Lucys plan to hide as long as possible and strike when only one or two tributes were left. She seemingly didn't have real feelings for Snow - cause as he break rules multiple times it seems Lucy didn't really care about his actions for her maybe causing serious trouble for him later. For example as he gives her the powder box she only declined because it's his mom's, not because he could slip into trouble. Maybe she even calculated he will be prisoned/punished/killed after the games when his (rule breaking) actions come to light. She seemed to be very surprised meeting him at District 12 and it wasn't Really clear if it's a "happy" surprise or maybe more a "shocked" one, cause she didn't bank on seeing him ever again. I guess we all agree Lucys character/actions and the relationship with Snow changed very much at the district 12 part of the book. Lucy got much money from Highbottom and its not solved why. Maybe "Lucy protecting the powder box" was a lie and in fact Highbottom paid her for revealing Snows illegal actions she knows. She also knew about Clementia and the snakes, so its also possible Lucy gave him the hint with the tissue and the official story "laborists found it and send it to Highbottom" was also a lie from both In the garage Billy said Lucy comes with him and the rebels to the North - so what if he said the truth? She said she is feared to walk alone so it's possible she planned to go with them at first without telling Snow. But then all of the group died (Billy, Spruce, Sejanus, Lil) and with Snow being the only one left, she writes the first time ever a song for/about him. Accident? I don't think so. She did it because she knew he became growing distrustful and a own song to make him more willing to follow her into the north. As snow find the weapons she realizes he will kill her before Snow himself realizes it, so she decided to run away alone, even if feared. Of course the book is written from snows point of view and especially at district 12 he became mentally in stable after losing his capitol life and bringing shame to House Snow. But we also know Billy said Lucy is not the person she seemed and also Lucy herself Said before "She's not sugar"

[@ellelazo15]

I like this theory. Snow may be intelligent. But he mostly uses logic than emotion. Emotional manipulation may be beyond him. The story will have even more depth if this is the case as it reflects human's natural instinct to survive

[@amithyv]

i love this theory! especially because Lucy gray admits as a musician she will flirt with everyone that is her persona towards the end in district 12. As well as when in the shed spruce has his gun pointed at Lucy gray and billy says “she’s coming up north with us, that’s my girl” and she says “if you’ll have me”; snow realizes what’s been said and she immediately switched saying that billy is seeing barb azure and came to send a word to him through her. Also in the arena bombing she clearly almost left snow for dead when the entrance was blown and a few district kids ran snow remember seeing her stand and look for the entrance, knowing the repercussions and that she wasn’t going to have a good chance. I believe she only saved snow because he would then be in-debt of his life and only want to win the Games even more. Overall i think Lucy gray is much more intelligent that the base of what we think she has a mysterious nature very much like an old hymn or tune from the day long before their Dark Days, she was always quizzical and in good light with snow that was until he realized he could the thing he wanted more than anything which was control out in the north with Lucy he’d have no control over anything it’d be up to strictly survival and hope which are two thing Snow is not the best at. Overall this is a great theory i think their is a lot more depth to these characters and the ideas in the book. This is also just an opinion but from research and re reading i feel as though Katniss scared snow solely because she remind him of his erie past in district 12, Lucy and how she so easily stole his mind and heart (weather it be real love turned cold by the idea of power, fake love for the sake of survival, or lust), also she brings her legacy back to light but, Snow know Katniss is much like him that she will do anything for her freedom as he would for his control. Thank you for your theory i really enjoyed getting this thoughts out

[@emilykeepsmiling9465]

I love your theory and think you're bang on! I especially love the part about the song. Snow even reacted badly to it, thinking the Hanging Tree was her and Billy's place, why on earth would she put that in a song for him?

[@tabathafalconi6828]

Love the theory, very spot on. When Snow met Lucy Gray for the first time at the train station, he thought he was witnessing a “performance”. Lucy performed the entire time and outwit Snow making him believe she was in love with him as soon as she saw an opportunity for self-survival. That is clearly implied the night before they planned to run away (the birthday party) when she hugged him and pretended to say goodbye forever; another of her manipulative ways.

[@Amily13Awesome]

@@amithyv about the scene in the shed, they told Spruce that Snow was seeing Barb Azure, not Billy though

[@briannamcclung7902]

Woah. I have no idea if this could even be possible but Tam Amber is the ‘Goat Man’ in the original book. I might just be going crazy after my second read through. I have NO evidence so don’t take it seriously.😂. Lucy Gray says to Tam that she was going to find a goat when she was actually leaving 12 with Snow. It is a long shot but Lucy says that they have been talking about getting a goat and selling the milk.

[@unsolicitedd]

So you could say, the theories on KZbin were.....catching fire?

[@zoltanszaszi2264]

I also think that Snow genuinely loved Lucy Grey. He said so himself. It's not like he didn't love her. It's just that he was also selfish, and manipulative, and he warped his own perception through cognitive biases, and he was possessive and toxic and self-serving. That doesn't mean he couldn't love, or empathize, or be moved by sympathy for others. When Sejanus is hanged, he genuinely breaks down crying. In the first part, Snow starts mixing his mother up with Lucy Grey in his dreams, and he starts craving for her company when he's upset, wanting to tell her about his worries, wanting her to comfort him. Those are genuine emotions of affection and caring. Snow isn't just a heartless, rational, calculating figure. It's just that while he has his strong emotional motivations - Power, fear, prestige, control, pride, honor, and yes, love too - He is also calculating, oportunistic and cold. Which leads to his love for Lucy Grey being toxic, possessive, insecure, agressive and dangerous, and eventually, abusive. He's a very complicated, very human character, a very volatile person who doesn't just kill his enemies, he also hurts and destroys those who care about him.

[@TheGeekApprentice]

He does not love her. He lusts after her. He has no genuine emotion, but pretends to based on what he has seen. The whole point is you read from his perspective and it tricks you into thinking he's genuine. No one loves a person and says "I hope she's thinking about me" while she's in a death arena then gets mad when she sings a song that might not be about him. No one who loves someone suddenly turns and decides they need to die. It's toxic, fake, disgusting, and not love. Plain and simple. He's a narcissist. The fact that you believe he loves in truth shows how well written Suzanne wrote this horrid character. :) But you're entitled to think that, though I never will. :) It saddens me how many actually think he loves anyone but himself. But props to Suzanne for writing him so well, because that's exactly what a person like him would do...make you believe he has genuine emotion.

[@1jkillings]

I honestly thought snow was a sympathetic character til about the last two chapters. Then it made me rethink everything I read. Great book

[@abbyfaitak9455]

same! it was hard to believe that he was the same person as in Mockingjay. i just figured he lost Lucy some time down the road and it turned him cold. and i really liked them together. but the last two chapters took a major turn and made me rethink EVERYTHING

[@jester1664]

I love the contradiction between some of his words and actions. He's so manipulative and really doe's seem to view Lucy gray as his property. I love the book, the ending is completely insane. I love Lucy gray and what was done with her character, shes perceptive and intelligent when it comes to strategy and action.

[@phatfarmking500]

There is no way to say that Coriolanus didn’t love Lucy Gray. Hear me out! I come from a “non-traditional” stand point on this. Love is not as simple as kindness. I myself have been in a long term abusive relationship, I worked in the mental health and addictions fields, and I just generally have more experience than I would like, with witnessing really messy and convoluted relationships. I can speak from experience that just because a person is self serving and cruel to someone, does not mean they don’t love them. I have met people with such terrible emotional skills that the only thing they are capable of, is hurting the ones they love. If you look at people with addictions, it’s quite a normal thing. People will steal from and hurt the ones they love over and over again because of their own mental health issues. Same with abusive relationships and domestic violence. It is wildly common for partners to become emotional and jealous and hurt the ones they love because of their own emotional incapabilities. I think the same thing applies to Coriolanus. And during the final scene with Coriolanus and Lucy Gray, all of this was running through my mind. He was already on the road to becoming psychotic, and I do believe the trauma of the war, poverty and his experience in the arena lead him down this path. I don’t think it’s fair to say he is evil, and I don’t think it’s right to say he didn’t love her. I’ve seen people do just as terrible things to the ones they love. I’ve read about it and researched it as well. To be clear, I’m not justifying any of his actions. But I do think he is human, and Suzanne Collins did a great job representing mental health issues, and how things can go sour so quickly. I do believe he loved Lucy Gray. I just also believe he has no emotional skills or empathy, and he put himself into a survival crisis(psychotic break) with no basis in reality. Food for thought! Great video though!

[@williamnissen5083]

Interesting take

[@Hannah003ify]

Yep I totally agree with this!

[@Cadesertgirl]

I believe that he loved her too. Even in the book he said that he would marry someone he didn’t love so that he couldn’t be manipulated or dumbed by love. He completely fell for her and I loved seeing him like that, as opposed to seeing his cruel side in the trilogy. But he knew what he wanted for himself. He wanted to become great. And I don’t blame him for that, I don’t blame him for wanting better for himself especially after everything we went through with the war and the loss of his father, mother, and sister. He was scared. He was a little boy (no matter his age). He was overtaken with ambition, and it does say on the cover that it will come at a price. I sympathized with him until the last two chapters of the book. I thought it was an amazing book, it did not disappoint. Now I wanna watch the entire series and see it with a different perspective.

[@dirgniflesuoh7950]

For a while I actually wondered if they would actually marry, and she would live with him in the Capitol, more and more miserable, perhaps turning to drugs, and he would lose her anyway, but she might be the mother of (some of) his children. Maybe he cared about his grandchildren ... Then I wondered if he might even have gotten her pregnant and even be Katniss's grandfather ... You always wonder what weird twists authors might decide on.

[@Corelila]

I completely agree with you! He got caught up in an anxiety spiral and psychotic break. For me what I find interesting about his love for Lucy is that the appearance of Katniss must have really thrown him completely off his game. She makes a sensation like Lucy. She’s singing songs from his childhood, even her name reminds him of her. Then when she gets her nickname.... the birds he hates.

[@TheGeekApprentice]

Listen with earbuds for full sound :D Time Stamps 1. Lucy Gray and Snow mirror Peeta and Katniss 2:46 2. Lucy Gray is alive and becomes a character in the trilogy 4:27 3. Snow loved Lucy Gray (as if, lol) 5:45 4. Lucy Gray's reaping is the origin of the 3 finger salute 8:59

[@thedredayshow9246]

Here is a theory I just made up. Link and The Dragonborn are the same! 😵😱😵

[@legofun211]

Maybe the reason Snow hated the Katniss/Peeta love story was because of his own hunger games love story. And maybe Katniss really looked like Lucy and also her name was Katniss which made him think of his time with Lucy in 12.

[@andrewschirtzinger8019]

Before reading the book, I theorized that the origin of the mockingjay pin would be explained. That perhaps Maysilee Donner (Madge’s Aunt) had been given the pin by Lucy Gray as a small act of rebellion. Instead we were given the “Hanging Tree” origin. I still think it would have been neat to see the pin in the Ballad, although I’m still happy with the way the book turned out. (Food for thought: Since Maysilee Donner died in the 50th Hunger Games, who returned her pin to her family? Haymitch must have. ;)

[@andrewschirtzinger8019]

(Assuming Maysilee Donner actually brought the pin with her during the games.)

[@parisakamali4123]

Wouldn't the capital just box up personal belongings with the deceased and send it back to family?

[@andrewschirtzinger8019]

Perhaps. The books never really tell us what is done with personal possessions after the death of a tribute. I like to think that Haymitch may have returned it.

[@olivia-sv3wq]

@@andrewschirtzinger8019 yeah he might have taken it off her body after she died (before the hovercraft picked her up) or she could've even given it to him during the games.

[@saanvi2713]

Ya know, I have seen this theory go around a bit - Lucy Gray returns as Greasy Sae. I was like...WOAAHHH🤯🤯 But...who knows? It will always be a mystery.

[@sarahhh5026]

When I started reading the book and was introduced to Sejanus I immediately knew he was going to die. I thought it would be from him accidentally speaking up about the capitol, and doing something traitorous and getting shot. I was sorta right.

[@thoughtsofkatie5592]

I’m honestly glad I waited to read BoSaS because I just feel like I wasn’t in the right headspace to read it in May. I just finished it and I LOVED it. It by all means wasn’t perfect, but I definitely enjoyed myself.

[@kennethb4438]

literally me right now

[@luciaf8557]

Hi! From my point of view, I believe that Katniss and Peeta mirror Lucy Gray and Snow, but not in the order you said - Katniss mirrors Lucy Gray and Peeta mirrors Snow. Of course, the four of them have very different personalities, but I truly feel like one of the causes why Snow hates Katniss so much is because her tragic love story with Peeta in the games, what he experienced in the past with Lucy Gray - they once were the tragic lovers from district 12 (well, from Capitol in his case). We must remember that Peeta was always Snow's favourite. Why? Because, someway, it reminded him of himself when he was young. The poor guy fooled by a girl's looks. Yes, Peeta was good and Snow was evil, but we know Peeta, he wouldn't have wanted a war. Without Katniss, he would have fought for the districts trying not to hurt anyone, that's why Snow thought he was more suitable for a winner. Peeta's desires to avoid a war reminded Snow of himself as young, even though the guy never was as selfish or evil as him. More than a theory, this is a parallelism. I hope someone agrees 😊

[@bindeinermeinung419]

I always thought Snow has also a love triangle but different to Katniss. Katniss had to decide between Peeta and Gale. For me Peeta and Gale always standed for resistance through love and hope respectively resistance through action and destruction. Snow in my opinion had to decided between his father or his mother/ control or freedom/ Dr. Gaul or Lucy Gray. However, that might be far-fetched. :-)

[@modoopinion7305]

Wow beautifully said guys! 🥺👏

[@swapnakolaparthi7589]

Two of my theories from this book : Katniss is the descendant of Lucy Gray. I mean, it just makes total sense. How they know about the songs, the family's beautiful voices, as well as knowing about the lake and the little shed near it. And, obviously, in a world made by Suzanne Collins, that is most likely lol I believe that Snow was also somehow bitten by those snake mutts by Dr Gaul. As this video said, (and i observed) that Snow slowly started to lose that sense of emotion that he had, which first of all pretty less. He wasnt the most moble, but he wasnt the worst (or alteast the way we know him now) at first. His charecter slowly degraded, turning cold and malicious throughout the book. And, Katniss also says that Snow does remind her and look like a snake. Clemensia, upon being bitten, also lost a bit of her conciense, even after "recovery". Snow....he wasnt just that guy we met at first anymore. He was becoming a Dr Gaul, and it was clear about that fact at the end of the book.

[@lawriem7747]

Before I got to the last part of the book, I thought Lucy Gray was Katniss’s dad’s grandmother while Snow was his grandfather, which is why Snow took Katniss so personally in the original trilogy. It’s never really suggested that the two sleep together though, but I still think Katniss’s father is a descendent of the Covey, Maude Ivory maybe?

[@ihavelemonade5640]

Snow really likes his image. Most of the time, everything he does reflects that

[@ruvymay]

No he does not. Actually is the opposite, he is more involved with the ideal image of himself being what he is not, because his family have fallen out of the privileged position once had. And basically that is one of the core characteristics of Narcissist

[@ihavelemonade5640]

@ruvymay I agree. Lol that's kind of what I meant, he really cares about how people see him

[@josefafalkner8329]

Theory: the 3 fingered salute developed from blowing kisses. Think about it when you blow a kiss at someone it is often when saying goodbye to someone you love (or a performer saying goodbye to a crowd). In the series katniss says the salute is for saying goodbye to a loved one. It might have morphed over time into what it is in the events of the books

[@Magicat27]

The strong foreboding tone in the whole book was killing me. I couldn’t put it down and ended up reading the whole thing in a day only to be sad seeing Snow become the ruthless man from the trilogy and Lucy Gray left with such a painful and ambiguous ending

[@abbyfaitak9455]

facts!

[@lukestrong244]

I totally agree with you on the front of people who say that he grew up in a hard environment. Most people who experience hardship become more empathetic because of it.

[@wholesometroll8199]

Ok hear me out You know that part of the song the hanging tree when they say they say he murdered three? Well it was a rebel who apparently murdered 3 right, what if the salute where you put three fingers to your mouth represents the three that were killed? I don’t know just a thought

[@lindseytallent2855]

OK what just occurred to me while reading your comment is that there’s an interesting coincidence between the three in the song and the fact that by the end snow has murdered 3, and in fact him saying so is what makes Lucy realize he’s not trustworthy.

[@wholesometroll8199]

@@lindseytallent2855 oh my goshhhh that’s truuuuu

[@reidbarber3121]

I believe Katniss Everdeen is definitely related to someone in the covey. Lucy gray talking about the swamp potatoes and how she liked the name Katniss better is just to weird...

[@thirdlynephilim]

I am convinced Lucy is katniss' grandmother. It explains the hunting, song and love for the name her father had. If Lucy stayed in the wilderness even just for a little bit, she would have had to learn to hunt and passed this on.

[@thejokingbatman]

I really want to read the book since every time you talk about the way Snow acts and thinks it sounds so interesting.

[@TheGeekApprentice]

"Dew it"

[@mightymorphinmatt420]

I don't think Lucy could be Coin, but maybe a daughter or something. But yeah, i don't think her fate will ever be revealed and I don't want it to! 😁 The only reason I came up with that is because Gray, and Coin has Gray eyes and hair and a coin could be silver haha

[@sergioestrada2244]

Are you kidding? I have to know what happened to Lucy Gray! But a part of me, doean't want to know, I don't know how to explain it 😂

[@SakuraFanBoy]

I don't think we'll ever know, It is supposed to be like her ballad. There are so many possibilities on what could have happened to her, and everyone will have their own thoughts, but we will never truly know.

[@BlessedBeyondCompare]

I think it's crazy that people would think he genuinely loved her too!!! Oh my goodness!!! I think it's possible that he THOUGHT he genuinely loved her (because it's written from his perspective) but what he had was definitely not love. Infatuation and self-preservation are terms I'd use to describe his feelings for her. LOL

[@BlessedBeyondCompare]

YES GIRL NARCISSM! His "love" for his grandma... messed up. And Tigris is someone he "loved" because she went WAYYYY outta her way for him, out of love. And even then he pre-emptively judged her for what she might have done in order to get his stuff. But then he glosses over it like, "Oh well, I got my shirt"

[@jilliansfavoritepencil4104]

"...some people empathize snow..." Me: uhh......*slowly walks away* qwq Love your videos!💕 (I love how your so smart sounding and how you talk about deep things)

[@devan6271]

From the Start I could tell that Suzanne didn't want the reader to sympathize with or relate to Coriolans by writing the book in third person. Honestly I enjoyed Coriolanus and his wicked mind, his inhumanity and narcissism. It was so refreshing to read about a character so different in in Coriolanus' case it was very fitting and I came to like the character.

[@ninjaproskills0077]

I have a theory: Lucy Gray is Alma Coin’s mother. Coin seems to have a bit too much knowledge and hate for Snow. Why? Who would’ve known even the TINIEST bit of Snow’s personal life? Snow doesn’t open up about his life with nearly anyone. Lucy Gray and Pluribus were the only people who knew about the Snow’s (for lack of a better word) “poorness”. Two people. By the time Coin would’ve been born, Pluribus would’ve most probably been dead. Coin knows about Snow in a way that no one else other then Pluribus or Snow’s family would. Why? Who could she have gotten this knowledge from? Who could she have had this, hate, from birth, from? I think she learned that from her mother. Lucy Gray (in my opinion) wouldn’t become a power-hungry, sadistic leader just because of the fact she is not like that. She isn’t sadistic. She isn’t like Coriolanus, she is free and she wouldn’t want the people of D13 to think a certain way, she would want them to think freely. Sure, people might say “Coin hates Snow because her family died in the pox epidemic and the epidemic happened because Snow made them stay underground,” but it wasn’t Snow. Snow was 3 years old when the war started and 8 when it ended. So Coriolanus would’ve been 8 when D13 was made to stay underground. It was President Ravinstill who signed that. That’s my theory so like, please tell me yours!

[@TheGeekApprentice]

I can maybe see it :O More likely, in my opinion, Coin has a butt ton of insider knowledge from capitol defectors :) But I also theorized that Maude Ivory is Katniss' great grandmother, so who knows lol :D

[@joicegusmao5496]

I believe in this theory faithfully!! Besides that, everyone in 13 uses gray (Lucy GRAY), it is too much coincidence. Lucy Gray headed north, and in maps district 13 is in north 🤯

[@drawingnikaycee9261]

I feel bad for lucy gray to have an awful child. I disagree to this kind of theory. If she ever have a child it's not coin.

[@drawingnikaycee9261]

I feel bad for lucy gray to have an awful child. I disagree to this kind of theory. If she ever have a child it's not coin.

[@drawingnikaycee9261]

I feel bad for lucy gray to have an awful child. I disagree to this kind of theory. If she ever have a child it's not coin.

[@m.arlimar]

Everyone is wondering if Snow loved Lucy Gray, but in my opinion he couldn’t ever really love her. Throughout the whole book he never trusted her. He was always jealous of anyone that had her attention and was even jealous of her when she got attention. And like Lucy Gray said trust is more important than love. It’s the foundation. Hence why Snow couldn’t even say he trusted Lucy back. Even if she left him for good he turned on her so quickly in the end that it showed there was never any love or trust.

[@nmoney6655]

And Plus Narcissistic people can’t really feel what normal people feel

[@amypattie7004]

When reading this book all I could think of is, “Cornelius is a narcissist” because is relationship perfectly mirrors that off a friend of mine - it started out with a glorious songbird being trapped with an image obsessed but loveable character, and when he tried to take her life, she was shocked, we all were shocked. There were no signs. His criminal psychologist diagnosed him with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. No one was shocked except him.

[@emilykeepsmiling9465]

On your point about Coriolanus not mistreating Tigress because of him image and obligation: I politely disagree. I think he genuinely valued her, but not as a family member, merely as someone who did things for him. Firstly she was older and therefore gave him a sense of protection. The very first time we meet her in the books she has saved his reputation (and in his head, his life) by producing a beautiful outfit for him to wear. When they had little money she was the one to get a job and be the breadwinner. So I think he genuinely values her, but for what she does for him, rather than as a person. When he grew to power, she was simply a link to his shameful past, a reminder of the struggles, the poverty, the hardship and maybe even something like a conscience he once had. And that was too painful so he got rid of her.

[@vivlehman7673]

We have to remember that these events caused the Snow we know from the original books, and view it from the capitols perspective to really understand what Coriolanus went through. The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes showed why he treated the Katniss the way he did. Katniss shows a lot of similarities between her and Lucy Gray, and with how popular Katniss was with the districts it was a constant reminder of the his first love, who he was betrayed by. Katniss and Lucy had similar stories as well. Both had a memorable reaping, were underdogs that came out on top, and a doomed love story. Katniss' name was also a reminder of Lucy because when him and Lucy were at the lake, Clerk Clementine dug up the Katniss plant, making her name a reminder of Lucy. He heard her name a lot because she was so popular in the capitol. Lucy said "The war isn't over until the Mockingjay sings." Katniss being called the mockingjay was another constant reminder of of Lucy's betrayal. The 10th Hunger games tapes were destroyed and never spoken of which means that all of the weight of Katniss was only on him, and he probably suffered in silence. I am not excusing Snows behavior in the original three books, but I can see how Lucy hurt him and how it affected the way Snow treated Katniss.

[@scaldarvonascalon5514]

I belive Snow really loved Lucy Gray, but that was like when snow loves fire. Fire will melt the snow and the water will extinguish the fire and at the end they will destroy each other. In other words Lucy Gray was the freedom what Snow never had but always desired, and Snow was the safety what Lucy never had, but always desired. But safety and feeedom is two thing what can't leave together coz if you want more safety, then you have to sacrifice your freedom, but if you want more freedom you have to sacrifice your safety. And at the end Snow chosed the status quo and his paranoia as Lucy chosed freedom. Another world if Lucy sacrifice her freedom and remain with Snow I belive Snow would kill entire Pnem if he see it is nececery to protect Lucy. But that is sometheing what I guess Lucy never be able to accept. +1 I belive after the events Lucy really become the specter to Snow from the ballad. And Snow could never forget her despite how hard tried to disappier even her memory.

[@heytherepeople5788]

I lowkey think everyone frogot that snow actually had a granddaughter

[@heytherepeople5788]

Forgot*

[@benl51195]

Snow gets the opposite of redemption in this book,. He knew what it was like to go hungry, he saw first hand the horrors of the Hunger Games. Makes his actions in the original trilogy so much worse

[@lexicarranza4753]

I have a theory/connection. It’s not ridiculous but maybe it is 😂? In the end of TBSS snow is swarmed my jabberjays screaming Lucy’s words and swarming Snow SND snow is trying to get away. And in catching fire, one of the hours is jabberjays swarming katniss and finnick with people she loved and he loved voices. What if snow used that tactic to make katniss feel the ‘pain’ he did when he lost Lucy and was being swarmed? Also some of the other hours in catching fire match up with TBSS! Now as much as the jabberjays. When Lucy and the tributes fell into the monkey cage, a lot of traumatic things happened in there! One of the hours was evil monkeys! Was is also a connection or was for snow to make katniss and her alliance feel the ‘pain’. The poison fog could represent the poison Lucy used in the games and he used to kill his way to the top. Also the least connected one but worth mentioning was the thick,hot,blood that was rained over Johanna and her group, was it a way to represent all he killed and his power and effects it has on people? Who know? Hope you enjoy!

[@lexicarranza4753]

Sorry for the bad spelling 😂

[@KIM-cs8zw]

Also some kind of large body of water like the lake and obviously the forest, the tree that strike at midnight like their meeting spot and the song🤔🤷‍♀️

[@kaylawebb3081]

You know my theory on the origin of the three finger salute was that it was a modification, or evolution of the boy scout salute. No one remembers it specifically from that because too many years past (before Panems existence) but enough of the meaning and feeling behind the salute to be retained through the generations.

[@portiakessner2420]

I think that Susanne Collins predicted our circumstances. Not exactly, but little details.

[@mahathibvs6828]

like, this is crazy, but when clerk carmine, brings the plant katniss, lucy gray was like"it is not not ready" though she meant for consumption, when you really think about it, when you think about it later, in few years there was a katniss who was the mockingjay, and afterwards the districts liberated .....

[@marhadeli]

Hello, been enjoying your reviews. I have maybe an odd theory. I think Lucy Grey knew the guns were in the cabin, and she tested Coryo by asking who he had killed. She saw that Cory's heart was not really into wanting to leave and what he really wanted was to get back to the capital. So she gave him that chance. She took the knife, and disappeared knowing him well enough to know where his mind would go. Then she disappeared like her namesake.

[@LazarL]

I read this book as a 32-year-old man who had his share of lousy romances that didn't work out and I was lucky to find someone that reminds me of Peeta. Romanticizing dark characters is something I've seen many times, and we should keep discussing it because characters like Coriolanus keep happening in YA literature and they have potential learning value. Love is a human concept, it cannot be tested in a lab. I personally go with the idea that love is being comfortable around someone, and respecting and trusting someone. We can use more words to assess the image of Coriolanus's (")love(") for her. He felt entitled to her, he was jealous and he saw her as a weakness.

[@lucyb.2865]

Not a super important theory, but I'm sure Katniss's father (and therefore Katniss) is descended from the Covey. I just finished Ballad moments ago and had reread the trilogy right before it. It was mentioned more than once how lovely her father's singing voice was and that their home was filled with music before he died. Now I'm just curious which one they'd be descended from.

[@yewyeiw106]

just wanted to say i love the addition of the music in the background. such a tiny detail but really enhances the quality of the video. i really love your hunger games content!!💗

[@cliffs3731]

Theory: Lucy Gray is Katniss’s Grandmother 1: The Hanging Tree song was passed down from Katniss’s father which came from Lucy Gray 2: Katniss’s dad showed Katniss the lake which must have been shown to him by his grandmother. This was the same lark Coriolanus and Sejanus visited with Lucy Gray and the covey. 3: Lucy Gray discusses katniss, the plant, and how it is edible after a certain amount of time. This may have inspired Katniss’s father to name her the way he did.

[@TheGeekApprentice]

I have a video about this, I personally don’t think she is, it doesn’t make sense. Rather, Maude Ivory!😁

[@danhenley9495]

How about comparing Corio to Shakespeare's Coriolanus? A lot is made of the Lucy Gray poem but couldn't this be a defective Romeo and Juliet. Snow could be Romeo AND Juliet wrapped in one.

[@SarahBaird-io2tn]

Hear me out: Coriolanus and Regina (from Once Upon A Time) are similar. They started out as decent people but then lost a love (Lucy Gray and Daniel, respectively) which then turned them into a villain. (However Regina was redeemed and Coriolanus was not).

[@kirar2180]

Sitting here trying to figure out why you would a) think of Snow White as a villain and b) what this has to do with the video. I then realized that Snow referred to President Snow. I clearly am not awake yet.

[@SarahBaird-io2tn]

@@kirar2180 Lol

[@jennataylor217]

Low key the last few chapters snow was acting like the “here’s Johnny” dude form the shining; or at least that’s what I was reminded of lol

[@alexandriaceballos1938]

Great video! Anyway, I was watching Story Divers video about the members of Snows family, when she pointed out the couple while he was making his address in Mockingjay Part One standing next to the two girls, one of them being the granddaughter shown in catching fire, and the other girl might be her older sister. What I’m really trying to say is: who do you think is Snow’s child: the mother or the father? This is one theory that’s difficult to construct since we don’t even know the identity of unknown child. The same thing goes with the wife. If I have to guess, it’s possible Snow married Livia Cardew, either she died of an illness or that he killed her once he grew tired of her. The mirroring of another character is easy to see, but also there are huge differences. The main one being both Snow and Katnis grew up in poverty, but the main difference is Tigris is the one providing for the family, and doing everything she can so that he and the grandmother don’t starve. While Katnis had to grow up quickly since her mother was so deep in her depression upon loosing her husband that she couldn’t take care of her daughters. Resulting in Katnis to go out into the wilderness with Gale to hunt. What can I say: theories and discussions are fun! 😊

[@TheGeekApprentice]

Good question! He may have married her (which makes him somehow related to Fulvia Cardew who defects from the capitol in the third book). I imagine (with no evidence to back this up lol) that he had a daughter and the son - in - law married for fame. I feel like a son would try to over-power him and Snow wouldn't have that lol. No proof of this, just reminds me of how the gods were in greek and roman mythology (which Collins does use at times in this series :D )

[@alexandriaceballos1938]

The Geek Apprentice I was totally thinking the mother! Since she was the only one of the two with the guts to give him direct eye contact, while the dad gave me the impression he didn’t want to be here at all.

[@slothdance2020]

I also really like the theory that Lucy did survive and made it to district 13 and shared what she knew about Snow. Maybe she is the mother of Coin, maybe she just knew Coin, maybe she was badly injured and never met coin and died shortly after arriving in district 13 but did share all that she learned from her interactions with snow and the other peace keepers. I am not really sure which I prefer, but Coin does know a lot about Snow that we aren't really sure how she knows it.

[@bindeinermeinung419]

I really like your videos about the hunger games. I also love building up theories. My craziest theory is, that Lucy Gray didn't die and lived a short time in the woods on her own and came to district 11. There she got children and became an ancestor of Rue. So, if that sounds farfetched for you, here are my reasons: It occured to me that the districts of Panem are conected with the zodiac signs as in the books there are many references to the stars and the fate of the characters. Although I am not really into astrology as I think it is all made up, the connection with mythology is very interessting. Therefore, I was wondering what I shall think of district 13 and I googled if there might be a 13th zodiac sign. And surprisingly there are some sources about a 13th sign. It's called Ophiuchus and it is holding a serpent. In roman mythology it represents Asclepius who learned how to overcome death through a healing herb brought by a snake. There also exist a poem of Marcus Manilius in which he wrote: "he renders the forms of snakes innocuous to those born under him. They will receive snakes into the folds of their flowing robes, and will exchange kisses with these poisonous monsters and suffer no harm" . (source: Wikipdia) Therfore, I am very sure, that Lucy Gray was born under this star. Also when you look up Ophiuchus at the page "yourzodiacsign" you get to know about the character of those who have this zodiac sign and it matches perfectly the character of Lucy. They have good intentions, want others to see the bright side of life and try hard to achieve their goals. On the other hand they are calm, even cold and misterious. It is also statedt that: "In addition, Ophiuchus people don't like to cause trouble to others but get used to bear the pain independently. In fact, they just want others to see their sunny side by doing this but always make others mistakenly think they are 'malicious'". Doesn't that sound familiar? As district 13 might also be connected to Ophiuchus, it might be logical that Lucy Grey went there, but as the district is laking of colour and is not very musical I can't belive that she went there and didn't bring colour or music. So I was wondering if there could be an alternative. I read a blog from an astrologist (Sister Lara) where she wrote about the different districts belonging to different zodiac signs. She states that district 11 is the district of sagittarius as their singing in the trees with the birds is what also fauns do. District 12 is the district of scorpion as it is the darkest and poorest district and she said, that coalmining would also be a job for scorpions. That is interessting in respect to where Ophychius stands compared to the other stars. His feets are on guess where? Scorpio and on the other side is sagittarius! So I think that this could be a hint that Lucy wandered through the woods and eventually arrived district 11 and lived there. I also think that she got children and is connected to Rue. As they both think music is the most important in their lives. They have mockingbirds as special friends and use venom/poison to defete others. Rue could also show character traits of Ophychius as on the page of "yourzodiacsign" it is written that they don't show you their talents but if you find out what they are good at, they are very proud. Like Rue was so proud when Katniss found out, that she can jump through the trees, as if she was flying. Rue also was kind of a healer to Katniss (like Asclepius) when she was stung by the trackerjackers. And both Rue and Lucy Grey talked about trust. Because of all these reasons I do think that Lucy Grey and Rue are connected and if Maude Ivory would be the grandmother of Katniss even Rue and Katniss would be somehow related to each other. I was also wondering if Lucy Grey would represent freedom, as Snow represents control and the mystery would be what happens with freedom during war. When Covey DNA could be found in Katniss and in Rue it could mean, that freedom is in everyone. Although they are controlled by the Capitol, they are not a puzzle in their games. They do have their own choices and freedom to think. Also Snow would have had the freedom to choose, although he had a different life but he decided to go back to the Capitol and did not want a life in freedom and therefore brought longlasting pain to the districts. So that was my theory and I am really interessted what you think about it. (PS: Sorry my poor English...)

[@stegosaur9812]

When coryo came into power he probably made the train luxurious due to when he was a mentor he saw how the tributes came in a cattle car and I dont think he did it out of sympathy but idk. Maybe to try and make the tributes behave better and want to win more?

[@bindeinermeinung419]

I also thought that these changes are because of Snow. In the book the children were kept as wild animals and for me that seemd for many capitol people disgusting. However, to keep this games going and to gain the interesst of the citizens the kids have to be dehumanised. The problem now is to get something in between. I remember that Snow saw two dogs which were dressed as Lucy Gray and Jessup. So I imagine he concluded that when people see the kids more like pets than cattle capitols would care about them but not see them as humans.

[@starmorgan9241]

I think Katniss reminds snow of Lucy Gray. I think he is able to care about others only he’s not able to empathize with other’s emotions.

[@Hannahk00]

I have to agree w the theory about the couples mirroring each other. The more Lucy Gray & Snow’s relationship progressed it actually seemed that Snow became toxic. He was always very obsessive over her

[@mel-or3gv]

Part of me thinks that Avoxes were Snow’s idea. It’s clear that treason was formally hanging, and in the future it becomes cutting out a tongue. Which reminds me of the fact that Sejanus’ was found out because he talked to Snow about it and Snow recorded him, and so in a sense his tongue is what got him caught. Idk if this makes any sense tho.

[@olivia-sv3wq]

i'm pretty sure avoxes are mentioned in this book though which means they were already a thing. i might be wrong

[@nickn271]

Ok, I took one for the sake of the Geekdom and watched this whole video knowing nothing about Hunger Games having never seen them. You could have been talking about the Russian version of Sesame Street, I don’t know, I’ve never watched that either.

[@lexyreads]

Loved this, totally agree there is no way that snow and lucy are a metaphor for peta and katniss

[@gregramirez7337]

My sister and I read this book at the same time and tried to stay at the same pace so it was a lot of fun to call each other excited with all of our theories about who Lucy Gray might be in the future and such, that is actually how I found this channel just wanting to hear someone enthusiastically talk about the book, so glad I did!!

[@madelinemason9305]

I used to always have a theory that alma coin is Lucy grays daughter or relative. Just because A. She disappeared north and could have worked her way to the rubble that was district 13 and get welcomed into the unground. B. She woudl fell her daughter all of the stories about snow giving Coin even more motive to remove snow from power and C. When coin listens to the song “hanging tree” before beedee broadcasts it she sits there with rage and anger in her face trying to stay extremely composed. It is a crazy thought and doesn’t have enough evidence but it’s a thought

[@VanessaGionet]

So I have a theory I’m not so sure about that Lucy Gray was not trying to kill Coryo but was attacked by a wild animal. First off we know form the original three books that there are wild animals like bobcats in the woods and Coryo also hears “ the yowels of feral animals” early on in their journey. Second we know that the snake was not poisonous and that the snakes come out in the rain and Lucy Gray could probably tell the difference between poisonous and non poisonous snakes. We know that there where skid marks in the mud. This part is a little far fetched but I think that Lucy Gray was singing to calm herself just before she was killed and the part Coryo hears was picked up by a Jabberjay. And finally Even if he didn’t love Lucy Gray she loved him and wouldn’t want to kill him. Plus there is no resin shown earlier in the book as to why she would want to kill him.

[@desreedaalder48]

I do think he hated katniss because he saw similarity in her and lucy. The covey songs katniss sung that lucy wrote. The mockingjay's he's hated throughout his whole book, and Lucy's love for them, and so katniss turning into "the mockingjay" later on. And then the roses, the roses he gave to Lucy gray, the roses he sent to katniss. Maybe he did it because she reminded him of lucy alot?

[@inspirationalquotesaboutli2345]

This might be a bit farfetched, but did Lucy Gray or the Covey as a whole create the name "katniss"? When they're at the lake, Lucy Gray says that "some people call them swamp potatoes, but I like Katniss better. Has a nice ring to it." If it is strictly a Covey name, it'd add more credence to the theory that Maude Ivory is Katniss' grandmother-- only a Covey could pass the name down to Katniss' father.

[@adadahliana9504]

It's it just me or does she look like she should be an elf from Lord of the rings? She's sooooo pretty!

[@sudearslan6571]

Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes AU where Snow chooses to leave for the military school and doesnt show up to run. But Lucy Gray is pregnant and 9 months later she gives birth to a boy who would grow to be Katniss’ dad

[@annagarza8649]

I have a tiny theory of myself. Not a ton of evidence but here we go. I think the 10th hunger games arena might be the same place where in Mockingjay where the Star Squad lost many of there members. Where Bogges died and where Peeta changed for a bit. It seemed to be described similar and in the movie (I know not the most reliable info) it looked quite a bit how I imagined the arena to look like. Also When Finnick said "Welcome to the 76th annual hunger games" he might be indirectly saying something more. Also Snow could be behind it, many pods were there almost giving it a hunger games vibe. Take this how you want, if you have anymore ideas about it, pls comment I would love to hear.

[@ihavelemonade5640]

Why would the detail that is Maude Ivory's ability to remember a song only having listened to it once be mentioned if not to show a connection between her and Katniss? We know that the song was only performed once, and even though it's a repetitive simple song, that's not enough to remember the lyrics and be able to pass it on to your children, and even if you could, why would you? It's just an illegal song and most people wouldn't care about keeping it alive, but Maude Ivory would as she wouldn't want Lucy Gray to be forgotten.

[@Blu-jp7of]

So you know the hanging tree song, i’m going to explain it all. This is a long one, so get your popcorn. In the scene where a man is being hung, I don’t think this scene is just here by random. I think the this is what the song is about. You remember why this man was hung? He killed THREE people.(remember three) The first stanza says: Are you, Are you, coming to the tree. Where they strung up a man, they say WHO MURDERED THREE. Strange things did happen here no stranger would it be, if we met up, at midnight in the hanging tree. The man who was hung murdered three. The next stanza says this. Are you, are you, coming to the tree. Where the dead man CALLED OUT FOR HIS LOVE TO FLEE. Strange things did happen here no stranger would it be, if we met up, at midnight, in the hanging tree. You know the woman in this scene that knew this man? The woman this man was using his last words to tell her to run? That woman? That’s what this stanza in the song relates to. For the next stanza, I’m kinda getting tired of writing out unnecessary verses so this is the verse I will be talking about: Where I told you to run, so we’d both be free. He knew that his lover would soon die as well or at least be imprisoned for a long time, so he’d rather have his lover die trying to leave then in custody. He wanted her to be free either with him in the afterlife or out in Panem. The next verse I will explain in this song pretty much explains itself: Where a necklace of rope, side by side with me. The man preferred his lover to be with him always, even in death. He wanted her to be hung WITH HIM if ever hung. The last verse is in all the stanzas: If we met up, at midnight, IN the hanging tree. Why IN and not AT? The man believes that their spirits will be in the tree forever and that his love will die by midnight. This theory is totally out there but hey, it kinda make sense. Signing out, Blu

[@TheGeekApprentice]

Actually, Katniss flat out says these things in the book...(Mockingjay, that is)

[@slothdance2020]

I saw a theory that Katniss is the grand daughter of Lucy Gray's cousin Maude Ivory and that made sense to me. so connected, but not directly and not bringing Lucy back.

[@rachelbernthold771]

This is so good you are so ahead of your time and think so deeply. I agree I don’t thing this was a mirror of the Katniss peta story I think it showed the backstory of a sociopath and where his hatred of Katniss came from. The girl from district twelve who ruined him and by trying to destroy this issue it became his downfall once again.

[@jennifercoolidgeislife6760]

I don’t get why people say Dr Gall taught him not to lie in the beginning but he went on to lie a ton more throughout the book and surely through life.

[@avaclearyy]

Coriolanus was more possessive than loving of Lucy Gray. Lucy Gray did love him, though, but his little mistake by kind of admitting he killed Sejanus, and Lucy Gray ran from him. So he ruined it all with one word. But he wasn’t really that caring he just wanted to make himself look good.

[@sunflower9460]

I don't believe she ran away at least not until he started shooting at her. if she was running away she would not be singing as that would draw attention to herself. I also don't think that she planted the snake for many two reasons 1) you can't really plant a snake it would have slivered away I think it was there because it was in a wood and was there by coincidence. 2) it wasn't poisonous (the nurse said it wasn't) so why would Lucy (being an expert on snakes) plant it to kill him? After seeing the guns he started to spiral into psychotic breakdown in which he convinces himself that Lucy is out to kill him (just in the same way he imagined the effects of venom). Meanwhile I believe Lucy was just singing while picking catniss unaware of what snow was doing. Also he went after her with the gun before he even got bitten by the snake which just showed you how quickly he could turn

[@williamnissen5083]

I’d love a video from you discussing Snows character

[@sophieleidenfrost1106]

i realized that the reason why snow hated katniss right away bc she was an underdog just like lucy gray and what happened to them

[@sergioestrada2244]

My dream cast (or at least the actors and actresses I pictured when reading the book 😂). President Snow: Timothée chalamet Lucy Gray: Dafne keen Sejanus - Evan Peters Tigris - Natalia Dyer Grandma - Meryl Streep Dr. Gaul - Cate Blanchet Dean Highbottom: Tom hardy Mr. Plinth - Henry Cavill Mrs. Plinth - jessica chastain Fun fact: when reading it, I couldn't help picturing Ellen Page as Lucy Gray, I don't know why but I know she is too older to play her.

[@jasperhart6996]

Suzanne Collins writing about the main connections between Lucy Gray and Katniss which are the 'hanging tree' song, District 12, them being in the arena, both having two boy figures who love them (Gayle and Peeta, and Billy and Snow), and her foreshadowing Katniss' presence with the plant that Lucy Gray calls 'Katniss' obviously are intended to further strengthen the rivalry between these significant factors and President Snow. These factors from his relationship with lucy gray, foreshadowed the connections with katniss. Why else would President Snow feel so threatened by Katniss when she won the hunger games? It was because he was reminded of all of the things that Katniss mirrors with Lucy Gray. Lucy Gray was a threat to him and his power as well as Katniss. Also when the song 'The hanging tree was played in his head after leaving Lucy Gray in the forest alone relates to the fact that he is the guy by the hanging tree who murdered three: Sejanus, Bobbinl, and Mayfair. To not see the connection between Katniss and Lucy Grays relationship with snow is absurd, please read the book again.

[@chrisspencer6502]

The hunger games or catching fire explains the three finger solute as a farewell or greeting from Rue's district.

[@TheGeekApprentice]

It's not from Rue's district. It's from District 12. Says so in the first book :)

[@deven.ferrer]

i found your channel after i finished the book, and i LOVE your videos! thanks for the great content - i love all things hunger games:) you are so well spoken!

[@lilacbutterfly8430]

Snows love is power.Lets be honest all his actions lead to him wanting to win,have more power, and save his own skin.Like when Snow ran away with Lucy gray it was to save his own .When he cheats in the games to win.When he poisons people to rise to power.For the people who "thinks" he cared , well why would he try to make up every excuse in his mind to kill her.He saw her as a object or a threat.You don't see your significant other like that.He wanted to leave her and kill her.That isn't love.

[@MaddieBullock]

I don't know if it adds up, but I like the theory that Maude Ivory is related to Katniss and Prim in some way. I need to read the book again, (even though I just read it) it does make since to me.

[@rebeccaerbskorn]

I really liked the book! I loved reading from snows POV. I've never heard of you before, but you seem so sweet and I'm obsessed ❤️

[@nmoney6655]

3:01 I seriously think that Peeta and Katniss are like Snow and Lucy

[@MistarZtv]

My theory, Gaul and Crauss were a couple, maybe even a trouple or had a love triangle with Highbottom. Gaul was trying to see just how much like Crauss, corio was and in a way experimented on him to make him more like his father.

[@haleyfolk7018]

To everyone who thought/thinks Lucy Grey and Coin are the same person… IF Lucy was still alive when Katniss and Peeta were tributes she’d be around the same age as Mags as Mags won the games after Lucy so

[@Kangakool]

I think saying that Snow didn't love Lucy Gray takes away from greatness of his tale. The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes is an origin story. It's showing us what he was like before. It's valuable contrast to see that before we ever knew him as the tyrannical President Snow, he was a young man who starved, and loved and lost. He was a child of a war that left him parentless and emotionally scarred. He was also extremely ambitious, and determined to live up to the family name. One of the reasons why his relationship with Lucy Gray was because he actually started feeling vulnerable and out of control. He almost make what he would have seen as the biggest mistake of his life, namely, running off into the wild with Lucy Gray, never to be seen again. She almost distracted him, but ultimately didn't. He decided then and there never to let love interfere with his decisions again. His love for Lucy Gray contributed to his ultimately becoming the awful man we know and love (to hate) in The Hunger Games.

[@natalie_rose2861]

I honestly don't really pay attention to this kind of stuff since it always turns out wrong however I have seen people talking about Snows obsession & hatred with Katniss for the similarities between her & Lucy & how it was his downfall. And I don't see how it doesn't make 100% sense. *Snow hating Mockingjays, Katniss wearing the Mockingjay pin & him asking about it when he crowned her. *The hanging tree song connection. *Being from district 12. *Only other woman from 12 winning, also brunette, same age. I know there's more but I'm tired too rn to remember.

[@tammieb543]

Enjoying your vids:) I want to make a point on psychology you may be unaware of: A combo of our innate born personality & specific traumas create how the mind & heart are wired, so it’s really not as simple as choice or “knowing better”. The more we understand the subconscious, the more we can see how those not aware or consciously working to repattern are not operating with much personal choice, as patterns dictate the brain computer so deeply. Even when we become aware, it’s still a challenge to repattern & heal at deep levels that affect change, though still doable. Main point though: when not aware, it’s extremely unlikely we would act in any way outside the ingrained patterns, for they pretty much run the show. One interpretation of Master of puppets: the patterns that plague &/or grace the mind