No, Lucy Gray Isn't Alma Coin: Debunking My LEAST Favorite Lucy Gray Theories

[@bubbaberriboo]

actually lucy gray is clearly katniss after she learned how to time travel and change her appearance. it’s quite obvious.

[@iloveyourunclebob]

This is true. She was also Madge's aunt. The mockingjay pin is a timeturner she forgot after using to become Katniss

[@nathanbishop3968]

That’s true I saw it all in person

[@willowevergreen628]

@@iloveyourunclebob AHAH THE HARRY POTTER REFERENCE

[@Kasiarzynka]

False. Firstly, not time travel. De-age. That's how she knows the bow so well, she's had several decades worth of training. As to changing appearance, guys, I think she might be an actual shape shifter. I think she ate the real Katniss and replaced her before the 74th reaping ceremony. She was also intended to volunteer no matter who was picked, because she wanted to get to the Capitol and deal with Snow. I don't get why more people don't realize it, it's right in your face.

[@ellalalalalalalalalalalalala]

dude that is so funny @@iloveyourunclebob

[@Edward-hq8ct]

All these theories completely ignore the main appeal of her end point; that, as you said, she’s meant to be free and untraceable. A fact best exemplified by the ending credits song (spoilers just in case) You can’t catch me now makes her out to be snows one loose end. The women who knew his darkest secret and escaped with it. He sees her in all things thanks to his paranoia, and I have no doubt it haunted him till he knew he was about to die. It’s honestly what I love most about her, this idea of a women who disappears completely but leaves an impact on what would become the tyrant of panem is so awesome.

[@philipdillon83]

I seriously doubt he haunted him till he was about to die. Bro had other things to worry about way before that. Especially once the revolution begins, whatever lucy grey knew is a total afterthought in the grand scheme of things.

[@cosmic_cornflake2153]

Yeah that's the point, she's basically schrodingers cat. There's no way to tell if she's alive or dead. I absolutely love that idea that she's his only loose end and he has no idea if she's even alive or not, or what happened to her.

[@Mayt5987]

⁠@@cosmic_cornflake2153That’s what the endings point felt like to me. It is exactly like Schrödingers Cat. People are taking it too literally, it *doesn’t matter* whether she made it out alive. What matters is the fact that Snow, no way of confirming then and no way of confirming now if she’s alive, her carrying his darkest secrets. I do like to believe she’s alive just to satisfy my brain, and I imagine she just spilt to Coin or one of her ancestors to explain how Coin knew what made Snow tick so well. But you don’t even need that, and it’s getting away from the whole point. She’ shows Snows greatest weakness, and it’s his own downfall.

[@DanVR1]

Lucy Gray having ANY connection to katniss would lessen the quality of the story. Katniss just being some girl from 12 who wanted to protect her sister is much more compelling than some chosen one bullshit.

[@iandean1112]

I wish people could just leave some of it alone. Katniss' story doesn't need to include Lucy. If anything, I agree that it lessens the quality of both stories. Just so happens to be 2 women where the latter reminds Snow of the former and it gives him the ick.

[@paddyq3235]

Thats kind of why I have issues with Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. I conceptually like a story about Snow and I like Lucy's character but the connections from Lucy to Katniss feel cheap and and a little goofy. I don't really like the implication that Snow hates Katniss because she reminds him of his first love, it feels unnecessary. Snow doesn't need another reason to hate Katniss he's just an evil, paranoid, coward who wants to protect his power. He hates Katniss because of what she represents. And adding in some weird connection between Snow and Katniss cheapens the point the original books make. Katniss wasn't special, she made one unexpected decision to volunteer for Prim which got Panems attention but thats it. Past that point she is just playing a game, she's forced to make decisions out of her control and play the game. She only gains agency again after she kills Coin. Also this is less important but I don't like that the books go so far as to say that Snow hates mockingjays. I get that he hates them because they are an inherent representation of rebellion from the Capitol but I think its dumb and goofy to throw that in as an extra explanation for why he hates the Mockingjay in the books.

[@bradene-a4182]

who says snow hates katniss because of lucy gray. the only connection between the two is the hanging tree song@@paddyq3235

[@demigriff]

I completely agree. It annoys me that people need a connection or something, just let them be two heroines without any connection

[@femalegays]

like a reply already said here, that's why i don't like the prequel in some aspects. it made the revolution personal to snow and in turn, gives context that goes against the original trilogy's message. it's conflicting

[@rosecoloredchloe]

maybe the real lucy gray is the friends we made along the way

[@sydneylynskey7587]

In my own opinion, I would say Lucy Grey becomes the Mockingjays. Not literally but in a more metaphorical sense similar to how the Mockingjay evolved into something capital could no longer control. So did Lucy Grey with Snow. With the Mockingjays forever haunting Snow with Lucy Greys songs

[@cazyjohn2005]

i like this idea it would fit perfect for Lucy Gray.

[@WeaselLikeMan]

Gray, not an e

[@darkmanstudios3828]

But what if she did turn into a Mockingjay?

[@Aliteralmilf]

I love this take! Because in the book, Lucy grey is named after a song; about a girl also named Lucy gray, who mysteriously disappears. It’s an infamous ghost story in the town, and Lucy gray tells everyone that she doesn’t like thinking of her as a ghost, but she thinks she turned into a bird and flew away. So the idea that Lucy gray ‘turns into the mockingjay’ is spot on and foreshadowed!

[@ellalalalalalalalalalalalala]

@@Aliteralmilf gah it makes me wanna cry. this is my new headcannon haha

[@lexgrey8103]

I love the idea that Maude is Katniss' grandmother. No chosen one bullshit though. After thinking about it i dont think Lucy was ever an option, but the covey in some way living in despite snow through Katniss makes my heart happy.

[@iri02802]

Yeah me too. Most of all because it's established that Katniss' father is a good singer. And Katniss sang when Peeta saw her for the first time

[@islasullivan3463]

It’s also established that Maude can memorize any song she hears, like a mocking jay. Since Lucy only sang the song once Katniss’s father could have only heard the song from her, unless she just sung it for all of the covey kids.

[@vans0nhead220]

​@@islasullivan3463I think this is basically implied, Maude to me is clearly set up as Lucy Grey's legacy and Katniss knew that song from somewhere very specific. Also the song was banned - and while the peacekeepers in 12 are chill, very chill, they are not "ignore blatant rebel defiance" chill.

[@mtsen771]

Maude makes more sense. Katniss father was a good singer, and knew about the lake. Considering only the Covey would knew about it, he had to be somehow related to them.

[@gennaronarducci1333]

It's a cool theory since like that then Katniss and Lucy are still related (since Maude and Lucy were cousins)

[@madisonlongley5082]

I think Lucy Gray survived Snow's attempted murder, but decided to live out in the woods. She always preferred it more than the districts or the Capitol. That being said, I do believe in the theory where Maude Ivory is Katniss's paternal grandmother.

[@zipppyheyday5570]

I hope she found people in the woods. It would be sweet. She said she liked people, she just didn't like how mean people could be. And it's implied there COULD be other people left, living out there.

[@dacutsy]

I agree with all of this, I do think there was enough in the book to imply that Maude Ivory was Katniss’ paternal grandmother.

[@pizzaisgreat4evernoreally497]

Honestly agree. Very telling that people ignore the similarities that Katniss shares with her father (who taught her to hunt, showed her how to survive in the woods, had an amazing singing voice, had the "Seam look", etc.) I would believe Katniss' father as Covey over Katniss' mother any day. But then again, a lot of these key details are given in the books and not the movies.

[@gapeach14]

I think mags was Lucy Gray. Anybody notice their hair was the same length and the wear it the exact same way? Also what is Mags doesn’t talk because she got PTSD from all she went through during the hunger games and when Snow shot her also she’s really good with nature and creating things like fish hooks.

[@zipppyheyday5570]

@@gapeach14 Major issue... District 12 is on the east coast. District 4 is on the west coast.

[@MoonStone_Empress]

Theoretically, she could have feasibly made it to 13 eventually, but she wouldn't have found anything. They were underground and revealed no signs of still existing. And if she did hang around, I can't see them allowing that for very long. Lucy Gray was also not an idiot. Their plan was to go north. I wouldn't think it wise to continue the original plan when the person you made the plan with clearly wants you dead. She didn't know about Snow's officers test or that he had any options besides going back to 12 to remain a peacekeeper. For all she knew, he could've gone back and told them where she was and where she was going. She also couldn't just pop up as a new citizen of another district without being noticed. Her only option was to stay in the wilderness and hopefully be forgotten.

[@iloveyourunclebob]

I like to think the reason why the 2 women from 8 never made it to 13 is because they took a wrong turn and actually came across a small community of people who fled years ago and came across Lucy's new home. Probably not what happened to the women or Lucy, but it makes me feel better.

[@wwandmitski]

@@iloveyourunclebobthat’s actually such a good theory! I like to think of Lucy Gray helping Bonnie and Twill ❤️❤️ i made my own headcannon that they arrived safely in 13 but changed their names or smth

[@globalpeace1374]

Good explanation. I will add my own theories. 1. How did Katniss’ parents know to name her Katniss if they weren’t influenced by Lucy Gray. Katniss was not a popular name or term in district 12. The movie alluded to the fact that kids from the districts were poor and uneducated. The poorer the districts, the less educated. When Snow was in the truck with the district kids, they didn’t know what a mentor was. They kept calling it menter/mentee. Lucy was the only candidate from the district that was articulate. It seems like the poorer your district, the less educated you are. 2. Katniss parents wouldn’t have known what Katniss is. Katniss - meaning ‘aquatic plant’ is the way educated people refer to plants that grow in water. Lucy alluded to this herself when she said that the people here in district 12 called a specific plant swamp potatoes but she thought “Katniss had a nice ring to it”. That phrase alone meant that she understood that people from district 12 werent the most educated to put it mildly. Lucy must’ve had some formal education as she said she is not originally from district 12. 3. The capital despised district 12. None of the students wanted to be assigned to anyone from district 12. They must’ve watched previous games and seen how uneducated people from district 12 were. It seems like the farther away you are from the capital, the poorer you are and less educated. Coincidentally, the poorest district had the most resources that kept the capital running. 4. The capital despised and looked fown on district 12. Little wonder why the poor district/ district 12 never won until Lucy came along. You see the game is rigged because the more alike to the capital you are (i.e.being educated, charismatic and articulate), the more sponsors you get that increases your chances of winning. Snow understood this and insisted that Lucy sang and performed for viewers and sponsors. Snow and his peers were students and educated by the BEST academically. At that time, education was a privilege for ONLY the rich. Not everyone at the capital could afford to go to university. University education at the capital was not free. Snow needed the Plinth price to go to university. His peers thought district 12 was beneath them because they were poor and they never had winners until Lucy. In society, the poorest communities don’t fare well in education. If theoretically they came from poverty and lack of education, how would Katniss’ parents have known the plant Katniss, or the valley song, or the Meadow song, or the hanging tree. 5. Lucy basically coined the term Katniss in district 12. She told snow that people here (i.e people from district 12) called the plant swamp potatoes but she thinks Katniss has a nice ring to it. Again alluding to her receiving formal education. She perharps called the plant Katniss to impress Snow who she thought was of a higher social strata. 6. I find it strange that the first plant she went for when she left Snow was Katniss. That plant must’ve had a huge significance to her. Remember when Maude Ivory harvested some Katniss, Lucy Gray told her cousin it was too early to harvest the plant. But I find it strange that around the same time/sesson (less than a month), when she was at the cabin, the first thing Lucy told Snow she wanted to do with the knife in her hand was harvest some Katniss. It was raining and her basic instinct should’ve been to take shelter and keep warm. 7. I still believe Lucy was part of the secret revolution army. Matter of fact I think she was a plant to get close to the capital through Snow. Her ex was a part of a secret group of revolutionaries and he never loved the governor’s daughter. I believe he was using her to get some Intel for the leader of the group. Also, Peeta mentions that he recalls that when they were young, the teacher asked the class who could recite the valley song and only Katniss knew it. It shows that Katniss came from a family where singing it was not banned. They must have been for the revolution. 8. The Katniss plant must’ve had some significance to Lucy. I still believe Lucy was part of a secret revolution army. Matter of fact I think she was a plant to get close to the capital. Her ex was a part of a secret group of revolutionaries and he never loved the governor’s daughter. I believe he was using her to get some Intel for the leader of the group. Also, Peeta mentions that he recalls that when they were young, the teacher asked the class who could recite the valley song and only Katniss knew it. It shows that Katniss came from a family where singing was not banned. 9. Additionally, Katniss was not a popular name or term in district 12. The movie alluded to the fact that kids from the districts were poor and uneducated. The poorer the districts, the less educated. When Snow was in the truck with the district kids, they didn’t know what a mentor was. They kept calling it menter/mentee. Lucy was the only candidate from the district that was articulate. It seemed like the poorer your district, the less educated. They couldn’t have known what Katniss is. Katniss meaning aquatic plant is The way educated people refer to plants that grow in water. Lucy alluded to this herself when she said that the people here in district 12 called the plant swamp potatoes but she thought Katniss had a nice ring to it. She must’ve had some formal education. The capital despised district 12. None of the students wanted to be assigned to anyone from district 12. They must’ve watched and seen how uneducated they were. Little wonder why the poor district/ district 12 never won until Lucy came along. The game is rigged because the more alike to the capital you are (i.e. being educated, charismatic and articulate), the more sponsors you get that increases your chances of winning. Snow understood this and insisted that Lucy sang and performed for viewers. Being students and educated, they thought district 12 was beneath them. In society, the poorest communities don’t fare well in education. So how would Katniss parents have known the plant Katniss, or the valley song/ the Meadow song/the hanging tree song etc. 10. Lucy must’ve been part of the revolution. Remember when her ex was coming to kill her after Snow shot the governor’s daughter, the leader of the revolution shot him - her ex. Why would he care if Lucy died if she wasn’t affiliated with the movement? Lucy told Snow she didn’t trust her ex. Right after the leader of the revolution shot her ex he said exactly what Lucy said that he didn’t trust him even though he was a part of the revolution and they hung around together. Lucy must’ve told him he was untrustworthy like she told Snow. The question is, why kill one of your own for a girl you supposedly have no affiliation with? No wonder Lucy looked so sad after Sejanus’ hanging and the revolution leaders hanging. She lost Snow figuratively due to her distrust of him as a snitch on his best friend, and she lost the revolutions leader who was theoretically a friend of hers.

[@globalpeace1374]

Cont'd... 11. believe the leader of the revolution must’ve told Lucy where he hid the guns before he was caught and hung. That is why I believe Lucy knew where the guns were hid. Isn’t it strange that Lucy SPECIFICALLY asks Snow HERSELF to look under the floor at the cabin WHILE she watched him with distrust as though she was TESTING him. 12. Snow being the calculative person he is must’ve been secretly/quietly searching for the guns as they fled. He knew the guns were not in district 12 because they (The Peacekeepers) raided the district and it was not there. I found it weird he asks to rest at the cabin before it was dark. That must’ve given Lucy a hint that he was still searching for the guns to erase any traces that would implicate him so he can head back to the capital or get post to district 2 which was supposedly closer to the capital and better economically than district 12. That must’ve sealed it for her that she couldn’t trust him because remember he already told her that he preferred life in the capital to life in the wild. 13. I have a theory that Lucy Gray is Coin and she was aware of the bomb at the arena that ended up killing the president’s son. Its consistent with Coins methodology of killing innocent civilians and their children for ‘a higher cause’. Coin even suggested that they continue the hunger games after they killed Snow and make the capitals children play in the games. It shows she has no regard for innocent children if indeed she knew of the bomb. The way she kept looking and calling for the guy from her district before the bomb goes off is telling me she must have known about it. Snow has been consistent because all his kills were for a reason or to serve a specific purpose. When Snow killed the boy at the arena, he did not do that in self-defence. The boy had fallen and was no longer a threat to Snow and his friend. But Snow went back to finish the job even though he knew it was risky and that the other contestants were coming for him. He did this to give Lucy an edge/himself an advantage because it is one less threat for Lucy as the guy he killed was the alpha at the arena. It is consistent with his character as he tells Katniss at the end that Coin killed the children at the capital because it was not his methodology to kill for no reason. There is a reason to all his kills. 14. Anyone else noticed that when LUCY and Snow fled, all the time Lucy was acting like she was hiding a snake in the scarf Snow gifts her. The way she looks at Snow right after Sejanus’ hanging was one of distrust. She knew all along that he cannot be trusted after Sejanus’ hanging. She is clever. 15. Lucy Gray is a performer. From the way she holds the mic you can tell she gets a high from being on stage and having a platform. The way she warmed up so fast to the cameras after being thrown into the zoo and started playing on people’s heart strings instantaneously. I don’t think she will trade all that talent to be a boring peacemaker. She is not very good with taking orders either. Snow told her not to share her food with the guy from her district but she did. She knew the risks of assaulting a governor’s daughter yet she assaulted her with a snake. Snow asked her once the countdown is up she should run but rather she went to help the guy from her district. I’m more inclined to believe she is Coin. The way Coin holds the mic is so similar to Lucy. Coin. Did anyone else notice that the mic she used was the exact same as the one Lucy sang with. Lucy had a great command of her mic. She even removes it and walks around. I also believe she is related to Katniss. 16. Lucy was mistaken to be so fragile but when the game started, she performed well. Its consistent with Coin’s MO of hiding their skills/talent so the enemy thinks they have an advantage. She was so good and fast at dodging knives as if she may have had some training. The way she lifted the heavy concrete and metal off Snow shows she is not fragile and had received some high level training. The way she also uses her leg to open the door at the tunnel says she is not as weak as she PRETENDS to be. She was relishing being the “underdog” as a strategy. She must’ve had some training in combat. Moreover, when Snow sent the drones of water, the drones hit the other contestants but she managed to dodge it SO WELL. 17. Additionally, her decision to only use the powder Snow gave her as a last resort is also consistent with Coin’s strategy to only use their nuclear supply as a last resort. Not wanting the other side to know what ammunition you have or what you’re made of by hiding in a CAVE and only playing ball when it is absolutely necessary is a pattern I see in Lucy and Coin. Despite Snows bombing at the site in district 13, she decides to wait it out and no reveal their nuclear stock. 18. Lastly, the snakes. When the snakes came, only Lucy made it to the top. It means she is a good climber. My theory is that the bullet Snow shot did not touch her. There was no trace of blood. Remember that she is a performer. She fell as though she was hit. My theory is she climbs to the top of the hanging tree because she is a good climber. 19. Lucy is a good people reader. Snow was not as rich as he pretended to be. Matter of fact, him, his cousin and grandma were starving at home but he carried himself so high among his peers at school. When his Asian friend asked him if he walked to school he lied that his chauffer took the day off because it’s reaping day. Meanwhile they don’t have a driver. He said the maid cooked so much food they had to throw it away meanwhile he did not eat that morning. He acted like he was above eating at the reaping party meanwhile he stashed the food and went to hide to eat it. His nemesis (his dad’s friend) caught him eating in hiding at the reaping ceremony and asked him how long he can keep up with the pretense. He told him he could barely walk in his shoes because it looked too tight. He presented himself to Lucy as an elite. When the cameras came when they landed in the zoo he said Lucy welcome to my neighbours. ONLY LUCY could see through his act. She sae what his peers couldn’t see - that he is a fake it til you make it kind of guy. Only someone that understood Snow well could take him down. When he went to give Lucy food Lucy saw the way he looked at her eat and asked him to eat with her. As usual he tried to play posh and refused. SHE basically told him REALLY?!?!?!?! In a nutshell. Lol. Like really you think I can’t read you. Lol When she offered the guy from her district food, he said he wasn’t hungry, she said you think I can’t hear your belly? She is very observant. 20. The guy from her district was OVERLY protective of her. There was supposed to be one winner yet he acted against his interest by staying up all night watching her and keeping the bats off her as though he was protecting the leader of a revolution. I also wondered why the bats were specifically trying to attack Lucy and not the other contestants. What was it about her that the bats were drawn to? Bats don’t attack humans unless provoked. Hmm! I guess we will never know.

[@Ozzyoxenfree]

@@globalpeace1374About Katniss’ parents not knowing what the Katniss plant is: her dad is literally the one who shows it to her. He brings her to the lake and they dig it up with their feet in the book. If he is related to Maude (or really any of the covey) it’s likely this is how he not only knows about the lake, but also knows about the plant and where to find it. About Lucy Gray getting katniss: I personally always saw that scene as her trying to get away from Snow. She no longer trusts him by now, he’s wielding a gun, and he knows that she knows the things that could bring him down. It’s also most likely this was written in to be just another reason for him to be terrified/hateful of Katniss (the girl not the plant lol) About the bats attacking Lucy Gray: I might’ve made this up, but I’m pretty sure they were only in their specific train car; the other train cars didn’t have bats or animal’s to worry about

[@toastbot9496]

Hearing these theories for the first time, I'm sensing an underlying theme in which most of these, prop up the idea that Lucy Gray is never truly free from the capitol. One way or another, she will return into its grasp either indirectly (e.g. Katniss' grandma) or directly (e.g being Coin.) Yet again, these go against her storyline of being free, she is meant to never return to the point of disappearing completely without a trace.

[@sage_in_palmmall5301]

I saw the Alma Coin theory and honestly the first thought that came to my mind was "sir, that is a white woman"

[@AskMia411]

😂 Yup, that’s what happens when people only watch the movies. I’m sure a lot of viewers didn’t realize that Lucy wasn’t just a tan Caucasian. 50+ years underground wasn’t going to change her skin color that drastically.

[@KL-ki8db]

@@AskMia411I mean it might be possible for Coin to be a relative of Lucy but there is no way one can change their skin pigmentation that harsh with bleach, tan, or whatever kind of material that isn’t physically irreversible damage.

[@LordHoward]

What was Lucy’s description in the books? Because that might change things for book canon at least

[@AskMia411]

@@KL-ki8db Agreed, idk why people think they could be the same person.

[@KL-ki8db]

@@LordHoward I am pretty sure it just said she had brown hair but I could be confusing it with Katniss’s description.

[@yattabirb3971]

yes, lucy gray became a peacekeeper! she got tired of the colours and decided she wanted to wear white for the rest of her life, smh, why can't anybody else see it 😤😤

[@Aries.the.Pisces]

🤔

[@siri5875]

She is actually a metaphor for companies after pride month 🤩

[@70RY]

Youre talking like what you said isnt just a theory. None of that is actually written anywhere.

[@siri5875]

@@70RY it’s almost like this is satire 🤔

[@broadwaybutterfly310]

@@70RY that was so clearly sarcasm

[@emilyk5168]

I saw a KZbin video professing the Alma Coin is Lucy Gray theory and I was like "what?! "Alma Coin is like 40 years younger than Lucy Gray and also she's awful and Lucy Gray is nice. Not all women with gray hair are 80 years old. Lucy Gray should be similar in age to Mags. I'm offended on Julianne Moore's account.

[@johnharvey5412]

What strikes me as really weird is that Tigris is like 90 in Mockingjay 😮

[@IMthebiggestboy]

I’m not saying I believe in the theory, I just know the only evidence for coins age is katnisses guess (around 50 or so), but Katie’s grew up in the districts, and a coal mining district at that, meaning her perception of a 50 year old would be heavily skewed

[@johnharvey5412]

@@IMthebiggestboy how can she be 50 when she has all her fingers and teeth? 🤔

[@IMthebiggestboy]

@@johnharvey5412 what? Are you saying when people turn 50 their hands and teeth fall off?

[@johnharvey5412]

@@IMthebiggestboy woosh!

[@laceisaverb]

I think all these theories about Lucy Gray come from a fundamental lack of comprehension of the characters, themes, and narrative. If they actually understood what they were reading they wouldn't think Lucy Gray was Alma Coin or any of the other ridiculous theories. The only theory stemming from Ballad that I will entertain is that Katniss is descended from one of the covey, most likely Maude Ivory as this theory doesn't contradict canon and is somewhat supported by the fact that Katniss learned Hanging Tree from her father when that song was only widely performed one time.

[@pdfp2372]

Wasn't in the movie a girl behind snow when lucy gray sang that song the first time? Its was maude ivory, and i dont remember any other time lucy gray sang it again unless in the forest with snow only when he was chasing her

[@lavraieAlice]

I like the Maude Ivory theory but there's one thing bothering me. Wouldn't she have taught her son about her cousin, the first D12 tribute to come back home, who one day misteriously vanished ? I feel like Katniss would know if she was even distantly related to the first victor. I get that it would be technically impossible as tbosas was written after the trilogy, but still

[@dog9girl]

Literally thank you so much for this I cannot cope with the Lucy is Coin theories

[@MariontheBagginsofFandoms]

Same

[@rachaelsmith4049]

I don't know if it was intentional or not, but I can't help but see the correlation between Lucy Gray and the titular character of the opera Carmen. In Carmen, the whole point of the character is the desire to seek and embody freedom at any cost. Carmen and a soldier named José have a romantic relationship but he inevitably kills her because he becomes overwhelmed that he cannot control her which holds a lot of parallels with Lucy Gray and Snow!

[@darlingdannid]

I've never thought about it before, so thanks for the insight! But knowing Suzanne, the parallels are probably intentional, as Carmen is a Romani woman, which are who the Covey are based on. there's also Lucy Gray's frilly skirts and dark curls, both traits she shares with Carmen.

[@arthurr.r.lucasspublicdoma5621]

Considering Suzanne's background as a playwright, there may be some validity to this observation.

[@ryancialone3045]

The one hunger game theory that annoys me the most is the one about how Katinss was preselected to be the Mockingjay before the start of the first book and coin rigged prim's reaping to goad katniss into volunteering

[@ia490]

Any theory that says Prim being chosen was rigged pisses me off so much tbh

[@iloveyourunclebob]

Especially since it's flat out said in the books she wanted Peeta, not Katniss.

[@kayleighjones7669]

@@ia490the ones where it’s snow that does it to punish Katniss get on my nerves so much

[@johnharvey5412]

That would be so convoluted and such a narrow chance. If Coin was going to pick somebody, why a starving hillbilly girl?

[@astranova1674]

Honestly i feel like for this theory to make sense it would be Plutarch or someone in the capital who was a rebel sympathizer. I highly doubt that katniss’s illegal hunting ever went unnoticed, and the odds of Prim’s name being called her first year are astronomical

[@charlotte-hanson]

The way fandom spaces seem to *need* every important character to be somehow related to other important characters has bothered me since the Star Wars sequels. It's just (imo) the most boring way to imply connectedness in a setting, and it makes everything feel so much more shallow than it needs to be.

[@ericgropuis]

It’s what ended up ruining the Rey for me in the sequels, I loved that she was a nobody but noooo they made her into a Plapatine because everyone hated Last Jedi they basically wrote it out of existence

[@wezul]

HEAR HEAR!

[@angiekelley9038]

The only theory that I accept is that Lucy Gray lived the rest of her life outside of district 12 in the house by the lake. I personally believe that Lucy Gray died but if that wasn't the case then she would have been grazed by the bullet crawled into the forest and waited for Snow to leave. She would then return to the cabin and wait until a Covey came to her aid. There she would remain knowing that the mayor or Snow would kill her if anyone was to ever see her again.

[@noazoelevin5462]

i think katniss being maude ivorys granddaughter is such a cute theory. it doesnt makes her a "chosen one", and it explains how she knows the cubbys songs, through her father. and even if it wasnt maude ivory who was her grandmother, some of the cubby must have been a part of katniss's fathers childhood. for all we know, greasy say chould be maude ivory herself too, or just any other girl from that time.

[@WandaMaximoff1998]

Covey 😊 not cubby And Greasy Sae

[@islaubiles660]

i love the theory that Maude Ivory is Katniss’ grandmother, it adds such a nuance to her being the “meant-to-be” chosen-one

[@iandean1112]

My first thought: Why do 2 girls that cause Snow trouble have to instantly be connected?

[@pleasecouldyoubetender]

katniss being maude ivory’s granddaughter is definitely a theory i agree with. Everything else is meh 😭

[@PercyJBabies]

Had some merit

[@annielovy7003]

The Coin theory is my LEAST favorite theory- Coin values are the complete opposite of Lucy Gray were as Coin is full lull of vengeance, Lucy just wanted freedom- I absolutely HATE that theory

[@Nicolesid1]

Oh oh video idea for you, the shifts in fashion in Panem from 10 to 74. For both the prequel and previous movies the costume designer pulled inspired from the post WWII Era. With that we see in song birds that the districts also are very close to this styling with many wearing clothes and hairstyles that match this look. Also, often hav8ng multiple outfits. But by the 74th games we see the capital now in a more luxe but similarly inspired looks. On the other hand, those in the districts more have fewer but functional day wear with almost depression Era clothing for "formal" events. Might be a fun look at the shifts and what they show.

[@sully42O]

right like i’m obsessed with how that one capitol girl says that Lucy Gray looks like a clown when we know how the capitol starts dressing in the future

[@iloveyourunclebob]

What I like best about the end of Lucy is regardless what happened to her, she is very much alive. While the 10th games would never be seen again, from the stylization and performance of the games to Snow's mind, Lucy never left the Capitol and never stopped haunting him. I truly believe Lucy was the performer the Capitol needed, but an imperfect & dangerous victor. I think Mags was the perfect Victor. The two together sealed the fate of the Hunger Games. We can see how dangerous & yet undeniably entertaining Lucy's games were to the Capitol with Katniss and how Mags may have played along after the games like Finnick. The imperfect and the perfect Victors. Also heavily plays into why 4 especially feels so spoiled by the Capitol. I think Careers were invented in 1 and 2 just to compete with the favoritism 4 was shown. They sought to bring 4 into their midsts to get the same favoritism and it worked. Mags was the victor the Capitol needed to cement the games as beloved entertainment without the danger Lucy was to the Capitol. But as we see with Finnick, Mags was always ready to be with Lucy. To pull a Lucy. To be Lucy to the Capitol too. An argueably even more dangerous Lucy.

[@iandean1112]

I would read a story about Mags and her time as a new victor. I can only imagine she has an AMAZING story to tell growing up when and where she did.

[@04nbod]

I don't think anyone could be Lucy Gray to be honest. Snow was right in that Lucy Gray was different than district. She never identified as being from 12. Her people used to travel everywhere. That's why her songs are so powerful. Everyone understands them, whether its 12, 3, 5, etc...Even the Capitol. And that is why when her mockingjay sings, its over.

[@iloveyourunclebob]

​​​@@04nbod That's not what I meant at all. That was a bit too literal. I mean the way Katniss and Lucy are dangerous to the Capitol. Finnick and Mags were always ready to be and had the potential to be even more dangerous. Especially together with Katniss/Lucy. It's not referencing Mags actually being Lucy. It's referencing Finnick stepping in for Katniss and being far more dangerous to Snow and the Capitol than Katniss could be with what she knows. Lucy is being compared to Katniss there, not Mags. Mags is being compared to Finnick.

[@AE1980Mom]

Actually there was a reference the very first book at the reaping, where in the thoughts of Katniss she mentioned another Victor long ago before the 50th game but they died or where no longer around. So that refers to Lucy in my opinion.

[@MariontheBagginsofFandoms]

Lucy is that other District 12 Victor this is Confirmed!!!

[@anaisdebeaumont9571]

Also I feel like what adds dimension to the plot is that Lucy resembling Katniss is only something highlighted to mark Snow’s craziness and paranoia. It would be more satisfying and cleaner for us to understand if they were related. But knowing how the author used her knowledge that Snow seems to have about psychological torture (spoiler eg: scene with Finnick and Katniss where they are stuck with mocking jays screaming like their loved ones), I think that it would make more sense that they aren’t related at all showing that Snow is disconnected from reality. It would explain why he didn’t kill her among other reasons and why he seemed to have mixed and troubled feelings about her. To some extent as weird as it sounds, he wants Katniss to be Lucy. I read all four of the books and watched the three first movies which I thought were great adaptations. Still I like the books better, I’ve read and watched a lot of fictional movies and what they tend to do is creating a main character that is blended and to which every viewer/ reader can identify with and trust to be objective. With the Hunger Games, Katniss has a very strong presence because she is not us and the author does not go soft on her. She has complicated feelings, does commendable actions and does not represent an archetype in theory ( I feel like she was turned into one). I deeply related to her and felt for her because she was so different from me. And I liked that I could have my own opinion on her bad or good, but had no say in her “life”. Sometimes it feels like the authors are guiding us in how we should feel about the characters which makes them lose their human dimension because they are used to make us feel a type of way about something else. It doesn’t feel right because it ends up with main characters that are too self important and never put in question where all the others characters are judged harshly. In the Hunger Games at least in the book it’s made really clear to us that we are reading through Katniss’s perspective and that she isn’t objective. The books feel like they didn’t aim to please the readers, to me it sent the message that books don’t need to please the reader to be enjoyable and empathetic, the author trusted us to have our own opinion and that this opinion was legitimate but only our own. The books also tackle trauma and we get a bit of every character’s perspective in each, it made me cry so much, just with written words.

[@PsychicStones]

My sister thought she was Katniss’s MOM 😭

[@Chrisywith1s]

I also feel like Lucy wouldn’t have lost her goodness I do not wanna believe she would turn into coin

[@Asturiau]

I think Lucy Gray is Palpatine, disguised as her in the hunger games to brainwash Snow towards the dark side. Creating another darth vader it all makes sense now.

[@darkmanstudios3828]

Hear me out. My Lucy Gray theory is that she became... a ghost! WHOOOOOOOOOOOO

[@ZombieIca]

I can’t believe we’re still talking about Lucy Gray being Katniss’s grandmother, since the author came out and said they are not related

[@JonSmith-hk1bq]

Where did she say that? Because that also rules out Maude Ivory being her grandmother, and I kinda doubt she would ever ax that fan speculation.

[@WickedBlondie]

The Maude being Katniss' grandma theory I hadn't heard before, but I really like it. I do think the only two theories for Lucy that makes sense are either A) She got shot, not instantly fatal, and ran away far enough that Snow couldn't find her and died. Makes the most sense, also makes the song "You can't catch me now" a lot sadder of a song(which...makes the most sense) or the idea I prefer but I think is less likely which is B) The shot missed, she ran off to post-acopalyptic Paris and is just chillin' livin her best life(read: probably just chillin in the woods somewhere off the map. Maybe a small community with other escapees if she could find any, not District 13 though since that makes 0 thematic sense for her.)

[@sully42O]

the thing about the shot is that there’s no evidence that she was even there. as far as i remember when snow ‘sees’ her, she’s in her hunger games dress which she wasn’t wearing before. so it’s not only possible that the shot hit her or missed her but it’s also possible that she was nowhere even near it by the time the bullet fired.

[@lavraieAlice]

I like your theories ! I agree, I chose to think she either died somewhat quickly in the forest or stumbled upon some other defectors to basically create covey 2.0. I don't think she would have survived alone for long, she likes people too much

[@aleximalmgren5301]

Kattinis being Lucy's grandaughter is horrid. It means she did not escape Panem .

[@aleximalmgren5301]

She could be Coin's mother. She would need to have married a man Surnamed Coin ( why not ) . BUt she is not Alma Coin .

[@nyletower6860]

Imagine passing down songs to your children as a way to keep your family member's memory alive and then down the line having a descendant similar to that family member that accidentally triggers an angry ex of that family member lol. But on a serious note the Maude theory seems more realistic and can avoid the "chosen one " thing because a person like Snow would've probably still been triggered by her related to Lucy or not. It would just show how Lucy's free spirit still resonated in the future and in the people who knew her even when she wasn't around.

[@llladybird.]

i love how for the Lucy Gray pregnancy theory you put “Snow was pregnant” as title

[@JonSmith-hk1bq]

LOL. Yeah, I noticed that. Was wondering just how deep the iceberg was going here.

[@nohintshere]

there's probably a fanfiction with that premise buried deep within the darkest corners of the internet

[@ericgropuis]

I’m glad someone is finally speaking up about how dumb the Lucy Gray is Coin, Lucy Gray is Katniss’ grandmother, etc Lucy Grey is suppose to have an ending like The Ballad of Lucy Grey where she just disappears and we don’t know what happened to her. Any theory that makes her either Coin herself/related to her or related to Katniss mess up Lucy Grey and Katniss. Coin is the opposite of Lucy Gray, I refuse to believe that after everything she had to go through in the Hunger Games that she would do the evil things that Coin would do. Lucy Gray and Katniss are suppose to be parallels to each other not related to each other because both are suppose to be the true human nature not what Snow is trying to portray human natural like.

[@Seraphina93]

I feel like Lucy is kinda the Irene Adler to his Sherlock, she’s the only woman who ever struck that emotional nerve with him which is why he’s struggling for the rest of his life with his feelings for her while she flies away and knowing she can’t trust him Stays away forever

[@Stinkysku]

This is unrelated but I would LOVVEEE to hear you talk about invincible!! I just rewatched season 1 and saw the use of orange representing his allies and I want to hear your thoughts!! I think you’d really like the show :)

[@diy_cat9817]

3:33 This was the one I liked! I absolutely think Katniss is related to the covey, just not Lucy Gray.

[@grapeindisguise8770]

Lucy gray being coin was by far the most infuriating one but the rest are just silly. Imo the only connection Lucy has to the original franchise is the pin and the thing snow says to Katniss after he sees the kiss. and katniss more than likely being a descendant of the covey. Which would make her getting the pin that much more impactful.

[@johnharvey5412]

What's the connection with the pin?

[@kaieastty8948]

5:00, the person that gives her the mocking jay pin is the mayor’s daughter in the first book.

[@thescenecat]

i think katniss must be tangentially related to lucy gray but i doubt lucy gray could have had children in district twelve after disappearing and be The Moment for Snow, who quickly begins to ascend both power and influence. I dont believe this bc they both a symbols in their respective stories, but because of katniss's fathers' knowledge of the woods outside 12 and the amount of songs he knows, at least one which was directly written by lucy gray shortly before she disappeared. i personally think her cousin maude would make the most sense, being the only other character strongly marked by her singing and her quick memorization skills, which may also be the reason hanging tree was able to be passed down the way it was despite, again, lucy gray disappearring only a few weeks after conceptualizing the song (from what i remember, correct me if im wrong)

[@butterntoast1249]

LETS GO NEW LUCKY VIDEO. I’m excited for this one because you don’t often talk about things you DONT like

[@oisinlehane1714]

My least favorite theory is when people say that every Reaping was rigged 🤦‍♂️

[@johnharvey5412]

I mean, we know at least some were. Lucy Grey was set up by Mayfair and her dad.

[@Bubbles_Art]

Actually In one of the movies they all say ‘we are all here for a reason, it wasn’t a big coincedence’ (think it’s catching fire)

[@lavraieAlice]

I hate it too lol, although in the books Katniss mentions once that too many past victor's children have been reaped for it to be a coincidence, there is definitively some shady manipulations happening

[@lavinder11]

They probably were.

[@johnathantufano8068]

I never really liked this fan theory that she's coin. Mostly because of the whole age thing. Because isn't coin somewhere in her 50's or something? And Lucy gray (if she survived what happened between her and snow in the woods) would be somewhere in her 80's by the time the events of the original series started. And all that

[@wezul]

I totally agree, Katniss is much more interesting as a regular person than as fated cosmic justice. I personally loathe the "chosen one" trope and fate in general, so I hate every one of the theories you brought up. Thank you for debunking them!

[@arthurmachabee3606]

Random theory: Lucy Gray ended up fleeing north into the wild remnants of Nunavut, Iqaluit, and Le Nord-du-Québec. With the help of a ragtag bunch of misfits (either other Covey members or random wilderness dwellers), she uses her singing to either befriend or domesticate the stunted badger-sized descendants of pizzly/grolar bears (mutated during the collapse of civilization) that also dwell up there.

[@johnharvey5412]

And she's the great grandmother of the magical singing girl from Gathering Blue 😂

[@Gigglingsiren]

I like to think that since The Covey traveled around Panem before the war, she would know how to get to District 13. She was probably just looking for something like a housing structure to spend the rest of her days in, and district 13 security found her. She just became one of them, had a family, and peacefully passed in her new community.

[@tennyopallas]

Thank you! The way I see some people treat these theories as fact is beyond me. I hate the theory that Lucy Gray has any relation to Alma Coin. It completely goes against her character. If Lucy Gray did eventually stumble on 13, she would turn right around and get the heck out, because she would recognise it for what it was, just another prison. Her whole thing is wishing she could be free, living off the land, traveling place to place. And its not like 13 is the kind of place that would kidnap, impregnate and steal away Lucy Gray's baby just to get back at Snow.... ok, if they had knowledge of her existence and their relationship, I imagine they might, but it would have been way more of a plot point. I hate the idea of Lucy Gray being Katniss's grandmother, because even if she goes back to 12 and gets pregnant later with someone else, like you said it makes no sense she'd be able to just casually sneak back in to 12. Also why would she want to when the whole point of the ending is that she's finally free

[@KovalchukSnipe]

Coin saying she hasn't shared the same experience with being in the games to Katniss in Mockingjay seals it for me.

[@EvelynJoy]

I agree that Maud Ivory could potentially be Katniss' paternal grandfather.

[@johnharvey5412]

I don't think there would have been the foreshadowing about the character Lucy Grey in the song, disappearing without a trace, if we were meant to have an explanation of what happened to her.

[@CarynsChaos]

Followed you here when the TikTok overlords did their thing with your account and I’m thoroughly enjoying this long form content.

[@Rick_King]

You made all of your points very clearly, and I agree with them. I do believe Maude Ivory is Katniss' paternal grandmother, but the other theories are all way off base. But I have one more theory. The "Goat Man" who sold Lady to Katniss was actually a very aged Tam Amber!

[@hallofadventures2320]

i love the Tam Amber theory! Man loves his goats hahah

[@forestgrump4723]

You know what would be a fascinating theory? Snow saw Lucy Gray in the crowd just before he died. In his last moments, whether he imagined it or whether Lucy Gray had been slowly infiltrating his precious Capitol in an attempt to reach him… in his last moment he let out a crazed laugh because there she was; the only woman who had ever truly known him. Staring right into his soul, as the crowd overtook and trampled him to death. Evidence? None. But it’s a fun theory!

[@longebane]

it's not, because if she were still alive, she would never go to the capital, which she loathed-- especially not to goad snow. she's been living rent-free in his mind this entire time, while i can't find it reasonable that lucy thought much of snow at all, except in fleeting thoughts. he was just one of many crazy possessive boys she met as a teenager, decades ago, who she knew for a couple weeks.

[@Avatarfan10000]

To be fair with How close Katniss and Lucy Gray look its possible that Snow could have seen Katniss as being Lucy gray in a metaphorical sense. Him laughing before he died was realizing that while he might have not fought Lucy Gray or her descendant in the literately sense he still fought her in a meteorically one and lost. Keep in mind if we take snow at his word Katniss is the only person he was ever truly honest with. Snow was not fighting Katniss or even the rebellion but the memory of Lucy and so before he dies he realised he fought the wrong battle and lost the war.

[@kassiemaelove]

I saw one today that said Lucy Gray was Maude Ivory 💀

[@johnharvey5412]

But... We see both of them together 🤔🧐

[@NotBulletProof245]

The only thing I saw about Lucy Gray when I re-read the original trilogy was that Katniss says district 12 has only ever had 2 victors, and only one, Haymitch, is alive (or, known to be alive). Katniss doesn't say their name, gender, or age-- so, yes, Lucy Gray was definitely constructed later, but her existence doesn't contradict what was said in the original trilogy either! Personally I thought Lucy Gray died at the end of the book 🫢 To me, Ballad is a twisted version of one of those stories where it turns out a bad guy is only bad because some girl broke his heart... Collins took that trope and wrote it so it becomes clear that the bad guy is still bad and his former love is not to blame for everything he caused. I thought having the villain willingly murder his love was an excellent way to end a twist on that trope! I don't think there's anything wrong with thinking she survived, since the ending was ambiguous, and I love all these comments saying that she vanished without a trace and was truly free of the capitol because that combines my take with a much happier ending for her! But I was shocked to see theories like the ones in the video become popular

[@rowanjoy419]

SAME * Lucy Gray big thing is trust while I would say Snow is security and order just like Coin, why would she even go or stay in 13? they are very tidy and she likes the wilderness. * Also she is so care free when sings a song about her ex on tv 😅 I don't think Lucy Gray would ever want revenge for Snow or hold grudges with him cause that is why she runs away from him when realize she can't trust him and just moves on and dissappears from his life.

[@JoseRivera-92176]

Lucy Gray would have made it to District 13. They would have taken her in. As they would have recognized her from the brodcast(since they were live). They would have treated her better than the capitol, but in a round about way they would have interrogated her. The 10th hunger games being different from the ones before with changes that might stick going forward. IE: It beening the 1st time mentors were used. She might not have lived long enough as a caged bird, but long enough to give the rebels an idea on how to make rebels out of the victors who live through the 74th hunger games.

[@Nicolesid1]

Ok ok hear me out, Maude Ivory is not Katniss' grandma but Barb Azure is. She is a cousin of but Maude Ivory and Lucy Grey. Instead of staying in 12 as Maude Ivory got older and being so close to LG she went out for find her. She ended up at 13. Finding out they found LG and tried to save her, but couldn't as Snow did hit. This fueled MI to HATE the capital and Snow. With the charm learned from her cousin and became the leader hell bend on getting back at the Snow.

[@scorpioj3]

Barb Azure doesn't sing though as far as I can remember? Maude Ivory has a talent of memorizing songs in one play so her even if she'd be old the time Katniss's father (I theorized that she's her relative from her father's side as he was noted to be the one to sing) is born and she would still remember the songs and pass it down to him.

[@scorpioj3]

And the Covey might have thought for so long that Snow and Lucy Gray did escape until he became president and they would have thought she's dead (either killed by Snow or not)

[@hallofadventures2320]

if i remember correctly, Barb Azure was dating a woman! there was a line in the chapter where they went to visit the lake, and I believe Lucy Gray said that Barb Azure started seeing a girl down the road. She could also be bi, but the only time a guy was mentioned seeing Barb Azure was when Lucy Gray lied about Coriolanus seeing her so they could diffuse the situation in the shed

[@adjextive1478]

i love your videos so much! i came from tik tok, and it’s so awesome to have longer analyses!

[@canettearillebooks]

I read on Goodreads that Lucy Gray is Mother of Katniss' father. This was written by the girl who interviewed Suzanne Collins.

[@novaisonyoutube]

I like Lucy Grey being Greasy Sae. It’s comforting to me, the idea that she lived to see the capital fall proper. That she had a family, grandchildren, and the most vulnerable of her grandchildren lived to be free. I don’t need it to make sense, I don’t think it’s true or the intent in the slightest. But feels nice

[@notabrittafilter]

girlie i love this video but i need you to know that the second time stamp is labeled 'snow was pregnant' and it caught me so off guard 😭😭 if it was intentional then disregard this lmao

[@nohintshere]

the chapters were labeled as autogenerated so snow mpreg was definitely youtube's doing

[@evlovesbooks]

The way that I went through half of the video thinking “this sounds like that hunger games girl on TikTok” and then finally turned off full screen to see Lucky as the channel name. Luckyleftie. I’m an idiot.

[@joyceellis9722]

Hmmm. Actually Maude could be Katniss Grandmother or maybe just great aunt or cousin. Katniss father taught her the Hanging Man Song out by the lake so there is some connection as per the books.

[@breaht9321]

The ballad of Lucy Gray is named after is about a ghost girl who goes missing she’s supposed to be in enigma she’s supposed to be free!

[@ctgrl]

Lucy Gray could be Katniss' grandmother, without Snow being the grandfather. Also I'm thinking Lucy could be Peeta's grandmother, given their artistic nature, sociable character and their shared belief of the good in humans.

[@Haley-ne6or]

In theory, yes, Lucy gray could be katniss’ grandmother since the time periods match up. But the evidence that Maude Ivory is her grandmother is much stronger. In fact, when looking at the evidence in the book, there’s pretty much no way that she COULDNT be Katniss’ grandmother. And if she is, then Lucy gray couldn’t be Peeta’s grandmother because then Katniss and Peeta would be cousins. Also, since Suzanne Collins wanted the ending to be ambiguous, I don’t think she would have left such a big clue that suggests Lucy gray survived-she wanted the ending to be completely left to the reader’s interpretation, which is why there’s no evidence that strongly points to whether or not Lucy Gray is alive or dead at the end of the book

[@StarrySkyyyy]

Honey wake up new Lucky hunger games analysis video just dropped!!

[@kelliecanscan3364]

I think Lucy’s soul came back as Katniss as a promise to snow that she’d never stop haunting him

[@maireenmedina8867]

Lucky’s classic KZbinr thumbnail era

[@bradene-a4182]

Lol thank you! The Coin theory drives me mad!

[@Louis-kw6yk]

Honestly for me it makes sense she wasnt killed by snow, and was free, but i believe she eventually ended up on 12, or some last districts. It's said that even tho the conditions on 12 were bad, they were the most """free district""" because the capital didnt bother too much abt them, that's also why the 12 had a lot of illegal things going on, so for me, Lucy Gray ended up on 12 or maybe some other small forgotten districts, also the coincidence that she says in the movie the katniss idk, it feels like the writters wanted it to be connected

[@htaylor2071]

The Lucy/Coin theories also seem sexist to me - like people can’t wrap their head around the idea of a woman simply ruthlessly hungry for power, believing Coin HAS TO have a personal, scorned-lover connection to Snow in order to go up against him

[@rosalobo4968]

The best hunger games theories regarding the covey to me are what happened to the remaining members after TBOSBAS: Tam Amber is the Goat Man, CC makes it to 13 to play the fiddle, Maude Ivory was Katniss’ grandma. I think Lucy probably died in the woods that day, unfortunately. The Greasy Sae theory is the most hopeful that I’m willing to get if she managed to live in the woods for 10ish years before hoping the fence back to 12 during an electrical outage just bc like she said she felt like she couldn’t lie without the Covey.

[@shadowking4249]

I love the title of your video and know the video you're referring to

[@Haley-ne6or]

the theories about her being greasy sae and coin I’ve seen brought up a lot, and I agree with all of your points here. A lot of these theories are HUGE stretches, and they just feel like desperate attempts to connect Ballad to the original trilogy in ways that aren’t really there

[@luanacaetanothibes7563]

I just reread the books, and watching these theory videos, I see a lot of people supporting the idea that Coin would be Lucy Grey because of her extreme hatred for Snow. But the thing is, I feel like the movies enhanced that feeling, because they wanted to work on Julianne Moore's presence, as she is a big name in the screen. In the books, although she mentions wanting to kill him (once), she is shown to be just a strategic and fierce leader, and Snow just happens to be the one she needs to deploy to get to power. She doesn't seem to have a previous story with him, and as the video says, what they know about how the capital works and Snow thinks comes from the knowledge of people FROM the capital, especially Plutarch. He is actually the one that plans most of their moves towards the capital.

[@beccachien5915]

Found u from tiktok leftie!! Love the content

[@theegreendragon]

Katniss is a relative of Lucy Gray and the Covey by way of Maude Ivory. Maude Ivory had the gift to hear a song once and memorize it, so she would be the one to pass on the legacy of The Hanging Tree. The Covey are natural singers and identify last names with color. I think Everdeen used to be Evergreen but was altered to keep The bloodline safe. Snow was obsessed with Lucy Gray so I wouldn't be shocked if he kept an eye on the remnants of the Covey over time. In Snakes and Ballards we saw in district 12 that the Mayors daughter set up Lucy Gray to enter the games. It would be even easier for President Snow to ensure extermination of the clan.

[@MaddieNiec]

I don't think their last names are by color, though? I don't know if we ever learn another covey's last name, but all of their first names are 2 names (billy taupe, barb azure, maude ivory). Lucy Gray's full name is lucy gray baird.

[@thecalmingspace7242]

Okay this is plausible ( Maybe) but what if ( and I purely made up this theory because I have too much time on my hands...clearly...) but what if Plutarch Heavensbee is actually the son of Lucy Grey. Here's how it * could work: The heavensbee family is one of the founding families of the capital. Hilarus Heavensbee was a friend of Snow and his district 8 mentoree ( Wovey) wasn't placed high in the 10th hunger games. In fact, he was obsessed with not disappointing his parents, and in fact ,it was either his grandfather or great- grandfather that was either one of the founding fathers of Panem or even the first gamemaker, Trajan Heavensbee. Say if Hilarus Heavensbee had a brother that, watched the hunger games and became disenchanted with the capital's greed and his own pedigree. He developed generational guilt ( over the fact his own ancestors were responsible for installing the sadistic games ) and were one of founding families of Panem. He was caught in the rock and a hard place, as he understood the responsbility that his family had ( in terms of privilege and wealth that other capital families didn't have, he also felt pressure not to disappoint their position of power and influence by putting a foot wrong) and all the while becoming disillusioned with the toxic and sadistic nature of the games. He becomes moody, resentful and angry towards his own parents and his parents listening to his subversive language, force him to become a peacekeeper against his will. They send him to 12. In 12, he heard rumors that lucy grey ( years and years ago) who was the district 12 victor of the 10th Hunger Games, just " disappeared" and others speculate that the rumors that 13 exist underground is true. He creates a bond with some underground rebels and they all decide to embark into the wilds in search of D13. Some of them die a long the way, and some of the other underground rebels make it to 13 where they were caught and captured by some District 13 citizens. As brother Heavensbee was adjusting to underground life, he met and married Lucy Grey who made it to District 13 years earlier, quite soon after her win, and told him about her relationship with Snow and his murders. They have plenty of children, but one of their sons they name, Plutarch. Plutarch grows up knowing the captial very well, his goal is to use the games as a way to bring down the captial. When Katniss wins the 74th Hunger games, she reminds him of his own mother and is obsessed with making her their " mocking jay". He seems the same grit and dertimination of her mother and uses his name, Heavensbee as a way to make a elaborate plan to rally the districts and over throw Snow. He's grown up hating Snow, as he literally tried to murder his own mother.

[@AshtonScripts]

6:09 snow doesnt have to be the father lol

[@sooahnim]

I think the best theory is that Katniss has Covey ancestry, it connects Katniss to the indigenous culture of the area and roots her closer to the land rather than Panem. Perhaps Snow isnt reminded of a past lover, but reminded of the mockingjay like group that plagued his young life. It ties Katniss loosely to Lucy Gray in a meaningul but not in a prophecy type way.

[@cjguintu8294]

the bigger question is how does Plutarch know the hanging tree he said the original is necklace of rope and if Katniss knew the song why didn't she sing necklace of rope.

[@04nbod]

Because Katniss sang 'Necklace of Rope' and he used AI to change it to Hope

[@briandaleske5139]

I like the two theories; That LUCY GRAY might of survived, and she might have been Katniss’s grandmother.

[@transboydork3531]

Personally I think the funniest possible version of Lucy possibly taking revenge is in some alternate universe, her showing up to the third quarter quell like "hi, I volunteer." Just because it's dramatic, it'd make snow have a complete fit, I don't think she'd even care if she got killed, or called a seinal old lady, she'd just be satisfied that she got under his skin

[@cobrakaiqueen6959]

Where is the clip at 7:32 from?

[@qunni3604]

i gotta admit i dont think you did enough research on the theories you are trying to debunk because i dont think anyone is saying that lucy gray and snows child is katnisses mom. most people assume patrilineal relationship, either from lucy or another covey. also, greasy sae being katniss makes more sense when you consider the possiblity of her having returned later on in life. (also again, most people arent arguing that this connection is possible because of the movie scene.) considering her ability to cook up wild dogs, we could assume lucy gray lived out in the wilderness and returned years, if not decades later, before settling down. then theres also the fact that sae is especially sympathetic to katniss, and the fact that lucy gray and greasy sae are phonetically similar.

[@dragonfly12]

No she is the black market lady who buys Katniss’ fresh game

[@dragonfly12]

Who also gave Katniss her pin

[@eeveepokemongamer9974]

Yeah she is totally coin and is 30 years younger then snow. Yeah she was a fetus when they were dating. Like why make that up thats so bizarre

[@superraegun2649]

Theory: Snow believed the first two theories during the events of the 74th Hunger Games. We see him getting very paranoid about things like that during a Ballard of Songbirds and Snakes, and ends by worrying about Lucy Grey returning. He also thinks a lot about her ghost. It's possible that he might think that Katniss was his granddaughter even though she wasn't.

[@kaieastty8948]

6:40, Lucky grey is not injured at the end of song bird and snakes

[@whammy8139]

My thoughts exactly, thank you for your content I love it, keep going :))))

[@venvon2991]

Lucy gray was actually the old self snow killed,, yeah mhm yeah it was her

[@fate723]

Theory: Lucy gray is Peeta

[@04nbod]

Lucy Gray lives in Snow. That is where you find her in the original series. But we don't get his POV obviously. I am not opposed to Katniss being Snow and Lucy Gray's great-grandchild. Lucy Gray having died in childbirth like his mother. It adds to it for me because of the Jabberjay + Mockingbird =Mockingjay symbolism. I don't think the writer will do it though.

[@luanacaetanothibes7563]

Although I do believe Maude Ivory is Katniss grandmother, from their talent to sing, and especially their ability to memorize a song from listening it just once, I don't think the fact that her father new The hanging tree should be considered the main clue to that. As it goes on and on through history, just because the song got forbidden, it doesn't mean it was never played again, it was probably played in hidden, private gatherings. But yeah, that's just me nitpicking, I still strongly feel Maude is Katniss grandmother.

[@jofinlay91]

I don’t think you get that if Lucy did have a child it would NOT be snows

[@TheLoudlyHappy]

? Did the movie actually come out in parts? That's all I could think of as to how Maude footage wasn't easily found when she's clearly seen a few times (am I mistaking character names again 😓) I legit found your channel today, watched all but this HG video, watched the movie, and then watched this so its fresh but I know I got two characters names mixed up at least once (Pup and Lamina specifically) so I wouldn't be surprised if I got more than just that confused Also if these are actual theories then Idk if those people understood many of the characters. If they're just fun diversions from canon for the sake of What Ifs like done in fanfiction then I see no issue with messing around with some crazy stuff. I hope some of its the latter and the rest is people who will learn the characters better and come up with some other more canon way to fit Lucy into Katniss' story (once again presumedly via fanfiction. theres probably some way it could be done I just dunno how)