Crazy Shaped Soft Jaws! WW134

[@frankmuller5649]

Great part... and I love how exited you are at the end... stay like you are and thanks for sharing. Just my two cents... your New York videos still are awesome in so many ways... be proud of those humble beginnings and all those hurdles... awesome!

[@DrunkenBobDole]

If you relieved the section behind the "hook" the part would probably have a much easier time fitting into place. You need too look at where your contact points are and what direction the force is being applied. There are enough contours to locate the part already, anything that isn't pushing towards the centre of the vice is over complicating things and getting in the way.

[@tmoney1876]

Tim Bolivar That's exactly what I was thinking. That back side isn't helping to position it or clamp it, so it can go away to keep from causing issues.

[@brandonatallian2128]

You rock man. So encouraging to your viewers. Cutting my first set of soft jaws this week and just trying to get a refresher on the process. Thanks for everything you do!

[@wesco123]

Man! I enjoy your genuine enthusiasm and appreciate your authentic, real life persona. Thumbs up!

[@jayjohnson110]

John you have mentioned tramming the Tormach several times but have not shown your method. Thanks for all you do.

[@chefhearne]

I could swear, on a fairly recent episode, he did tram it and talked about it. I can't remember which one it would be either and I could be wrong, maybe John will pop in and comment.

[@mrcpelayo]

its really great that you're showing others how to take full advantage of the full CAD/CAM package that Fusion comes with. I use it at work, and absolutely love it. That being said, bro you can do these much quicker without any special fixturing. Depending on the production run, you can just order a large billet, array multiple of the same parts in the billet. Face the billet, using double sticky tape, flip over and finish the other side. Like in many cases, there's always more than one way to skin a cat. It would save setup time, and part loading. When I get parts from a customer that has a flat face on one side with maybe a chamfer on one side, we call those one OP parts, just pre-face the first side, then it gets flipped over and the rest of the part is machined. Hot glue and rubber cement is used to fill areas from the first Op to avoid the coolant from eating the tape adhesive. Just thought I would give my 2 cents, love the fusion webinars you do!

[@andrewgiles6192]

Thanks for showing the full process John, including stock cutting, part flipping etc, it really helps get a well rounded view of the whole process, not just the impressive bits. I don't think I can buy plain aluminium of that size for $12 (well even for £12 which is the currency here), let alone well machined soft jaw blanks! Maybe you could do a chip break on metal suppliers, how you find out reasonable prices, volume discounts etc - you;ve done the full novice to pro thing, and metal supply plays a part in that journey. Thanks

[@feltonissimo]

You can easily get ali tha price. You will be surprised. Take a look at www.aluminiumwarehouse.co.uk/ and they are probably on the pricey side. The only thing is that you have to buy in a certain quantity. But hey, if you want to make a set of ali jaws why not make a couple of dozen and put them on the shelf. Or even better, sells some!

[@dopihead]

Some food for thought 1: You should technically be able to drop in your part onto the soft jaws without having to unclamp them. 2: next time program in a drill and blow out all your sharp inside corners before milling out your feature. Makes life soooo much easier!! AND 3: For future jaws watch out for end mills with those small pesky corner radius's! You'll be chasing your tail for hours trying to figure out why your part came out tapered. Lets just say sharp corners (even if chamfered ) don't sit well in pockets with rounded edges lol Idk just stuff ive learned these past few years. Anyways keep it up man!! Love your videos:D

[@azenginerd9498]

As Peter Meek mentioned you could eliminate all the fixed jaw profile geometry that isn't providing clamping force. I couldn't tell from the video if you have this in place, but on a part like this I like to run the depth of the first operation profile about 0.010 beyond the part. Then in the second operation when you face off you are not right at the floor of your "mushroom cap". You can also bypass the second op rough profiling and accomplish it with the face mill. Since you are cutting way past the mushroom cap floor the facing just turns the cap into chips. I concur completely with your take on the total cost of soft jaws: With CAM they are quick to cut and the material is cheap. If you have idle people on the clock then it is cost effective to run a batch of soft jaw blanks. If you are running jobs it is WAY more cost effective to buy a 10-pack. I ran many jobs at quantities of 10 or less and soft jaws were used. Often, with a little forethought, you can design jaws with more than one purpose. A few things I like to do with soft jaws: They start to multiply and keeping them straight becomes problematic. In CAM, add an engraving of the part number to both jaws (Sharpie goes away). Also, engrave arrows or other pointers to the intended origin. This does nothing for you today... but six months from now when you need to run a second batch! Part number you say? Good file management requires unique names. Assign a unique part number to your files as you create them. Naming part files BRACKET and FIXTURE will get messy really fast. Keep your great content coming!

[@SwitchAndLever]

Dude, that's great! Love that your joy shines through your work like that too! One question though, what is that case/frame you're using for the GoPro? Looks like it has a custom lens on it, no?

[@skeeterweazel]

John, newb CNC question: it seems you always try to climb mill. At 12:00 minute mark in this vid where you're staring to mill the soft jaws you are climbing only. I read that climbing gives the best chip load/finish. But wouldn't it be faster when roughing something out to go back-n-forth, such as in this case where you're making a pocket on the soft jaw? Is it that much tougher on the cutter cutting conventionally? Thx. Marty

[@JackS425]

where I work we cut the soft jaws large, so instead of being thin like hard jaws they have more area in they Y direction. That way you can keep sinking your part into the surface as you move from job to job. The set i currently use has had 6 different jobs in it.

[@thetruthyouneedtohear]

Reviewing your video's today after making soft jaws last night, and it was funny when you go, it's always at the end when you ruin the part. So true. Great video.

[@thomaswayne9713]

Two points, at 2:30 in: 1) "Mushroom cap" = "webb" to many manufacturers; and 2) A [roughly] 56% increase in blank size will yield two NESTED parts, resulting in a bit of savings in material costs and DOUBLE your output per cycle, meaning more peripheral work can be accomplished between part changes.

[@2012rcampion]

Hi John, I was recently playing around with the CAM for a similar sort of setup and found a neat way to handle rest machining when flipping the part. After running the simulation for the first op, save the stock as a solid model (right click, Stock > Save Stock...). Then, in the CAD workspace import that solid model (Insert > Insert Mesh). (You might need the Mesh Workspace preview enabled, not sure.) Lastly, for the second op choose Stock > From Solid and pick the solid you just imported. If you're doing a more complex part with steps on the top and bottom it can be really helpful for keeping track of what you still need to mill. The downside of this method is that if you change the CAM for the first op, you have to repeat the process.

[@ChicagoRacerJoe]

Thank you for information on using the fixed soft jaw for your coordination! Never thought of that before.

[@EdgePrecision]

John, One thing you might consider. When you mill soft jaws in this way it would be more precise to line up on the part instead of the soft jaw corner. In the case of this part you could of drill the hole all the way thru (I noticed when you actually milled the part in the video the hole was thru. Did you do this?) and indicate that as your second operations zero. This is because in order to fit the part in the jaws you have to have clearance so when you tighten the vice the part shifts back some amount. Also don't necessary think in terms of needing the part square in the jaws. It might be that rotating the part one way or the other would give a better clamping situation and use the volume of the jaws better. This way of thought goes back to manual machining but isn't necessary with CNC.

[@DarronBlack]

I've got your power drawbar attachment. Works great! ... my large knee mill has a very long drawbar, so I had to put 3" blocks under it to get the height right, but with a bit of a stretch to reach the handle it does well.

[@PeterWMeek]

Any thoughts on relieving all soft jaw faces that don't clamp? On the fixed jaw there seems (to me) to be no reason to touch the part on faces that don't contribute to Y-axis pressure or X-axis location.

[@mfuzita]

Great job! some day I'll have a CNC and time to study all your videos! congratulations from Brazil.

[@Regalmetalworks]

I just bought the edge technologies tramming gauge because my passes with the superfly cut on the backside....I see your 1100 is cutting on the backside as well....looks less than mine...i was wondering if tramming would fix that, guess it will get it closer..

[@DanBader]

So is there a general practice to over/under sizing the negative in the soft jaw operations to ensure the part fits into the soft jaws for second side ops? I would think if my CNC can actually hold very tight tolerances I might have a problem getting the part to slide down into the negative in the soft jaws. But obviously I'm worried that applying a uniform -0.0005 axial stock to leave on the final contour will mean I'm guessing as to where the part is actually located once clamped in.

[@Motorman0297]

You can buy long aluminum rectangle bars and just make your own soft jaws. Thats what we do at our shop. Buying them pre-made is wayyyyy too expensive! We made a few hundred several years ago and haven't ran out yet. You should look into making your own John.

[@VPEEK]

We always used Acetal for soft jaws, super quick and easy to make then when you can rip through the material at high speed.

[@asArsenic]

Interestingly enough we use mild steel. Then again compared to the stuff we typically cut that is actually soft.

[@Stephen1455]

That is so true! Have been Tool and Diemaker, Gagemaker, Instrumentmaker, all have different talents.But so few of these details you show will be taught!

[@50STUNT]

sweet video! 16:30 is why I didnt purchase fusion. no compare on the simulation so that left over material isn't seen. Camworks shows it. I don't know how you run with no compare on the simulation.

[@tannermadeen1769]

I would recommend putting a small radius like .005 where your tool leaves the jaws to remove the sharp corners to make safer for the operator and avoid having to hand debur. Also would cut soft jaw profile over at least .001 per side to ensure part falls in freely. Help from having to hold op 1 profile to such a high tolerance and keep jaws from being deformed from forcing oversized parts in them. But if only for a one off then it will work just fine. In general if your location of features on op 1 doesn't have to be to the tenths to features to op 2 then fixture can have some slop especially if the profile geometry of the part is more complicated. Its much easier to make a fixture slightly bigger than to recut an oversized part cut from rough stock or having to scrap the part entirely bc it will not fit in next ops fixture. All in all great job.

[@77gravity]

Excellent, I have recently bought a manual mill (CNC isn't in my budget quite yet) but I learn so much from these videos anyway. Thank you. Question: What would then be the run time to make the next handle? (now that the soft-jaws are done, etc).

[@cooleffenguy]

when we machine soft jaws we make sure the part fits in there without having to unloosening the vise. the part should be able to drop right in snuggly and if it doesn't we make an adjustment. figure out the gap you need prior to machining.

[@ajazahmad6551]

yg

[@HughesEarthworks]

Another great video John. I want to see if I can replicate this and get the same quality results on my 440.

[@ipadize]

17:48 this is a perfect example for in-machine compensation (RL and RR) so you dont need to change the program and repost, just say DR -0.001 and the machine will compensate the radius -0.001 :)

[@matthewgowan7546]

I found the heidenhain guy :D

[@ipadize]

Matthew Gowan Heidenhain is best :)

[@matthewgowan7546]

Have to pretend to blend in though, you mean G41, G42, and radius wear offset :P

[@ipadize]

i think so, i dont know Gcode much but Heidenhain Klartext (L Z+100 F9999, L X-30 Y +43, L Z +5 M99 - or RL for compensating the cutter on the left side of the Coordinate for example)

[@DanRudolph]

Looks like John has coordinate system rotation turned on on the VM3... G68!

[@mistryrajan5999]

Hey man , I curious about what you doing.. I want to ask a question. Can u show us how to design a fixture that u been use to hold this part there. ??

[@cylosgarage]

Great video. How'd you like TOT's tribute to you in his 100k special?

[@DanBader]

Link?

[@AdamBath]

Really enjoyed watching this one.

[@powder-phun949]

I need some help. I know very little about CNC machining, but I need a CNC mill. Do you have any suggestions on some not very expensive machine? It's going to mainly be used for making molds for low pressure molding from aluminum (about one per month).

[@timwatterson8060]

Why didn't you use the fly cutter to finish the valley so the finish looked nice(and time)?

[@Hardturnin]

Very nice work. With these shapes the shapes and radius given needs some clearance. I was wondering if you would use dukes and lo and behold you did. It can show us where the bind is. Most all the time with softjaws I leave the vise clamped and then try it out. Often it is only a adjustment on cutter comp. my something different suggestions would be dykem part first then still being clamped try the fit and adjust to fit. Also in general and you likely do this is to machine on one end of the jaws a nice step in case you need to use them in the future. Darn nice work for a young man who has come so far in such a short period of time. If young men like you are the future I will sleep well at night. Carry on!

[@northernsmith]

I would love to see a video on smoothing. My mill gets jerky at feed rates over 25 ipm.

[@dudemcgee256]

That sounds more like a data starving problem. Turn up your baud rate.

[@zangarkhan]

Do u have a video on tramming ?

[@JOHNPHUFNAGEL]

That was awesome John

[@tomschweinert7165]

Hey John can you do a tutorial on how you creatr the soft jaws in cam. I am new to the cam part of machining and not sure how it is done

[@ALWAYSPDG]

Informative video John, nice work!

[@jackflash6377]

When creating soft jaws from a part. Do you use something like Negative stock to leave? I can't imagine machining something to the exact size of the part you want to drop down in the soft jaw cavity. That bit me on a part when I first tried to use soft jaws. Ruined $150 worth of stock. Never went back to it so I'm still up in the air about that.

[@supernewf3722]

According to AVE the butterfly impact wrench for the bridgeport are not that great.Holes aren't lined up,screws are miss matched.Hopefully you saw the video and learned something from it.Let us know if you improved or made any changes to the product.Cheers!!!

[@Stephen1455]

Hey John, does your camera have a protective lens, haven't seen you be that close before, love your work, I am all manual, but really appreciate your cnc!

[@jodyolivent8481]

Awesome video and great job! I would love to see a video detailing "smoothing". When to use it and when not to. As I get my Kitamura setup I have a feeling I will need that since she is only slightly younger than I and both of us suffer from a short memory. :o

[@AlMg1SiCu]

I've got a 1992 HAAS VF-1 with a grand 100k of memory. Gotta pull some fancy tricks to get it to perform how I want it to- Smoothing reduced a file from 400k to 120k last night, and the moves weren't made up of tiny short sections anymore, so it could actually keep up instead of jerking around waiting on the CPU. I also found an M-code that disables the display while the program runs and frees up even more resources, so I can run 150ipm trochoidial HSM toolpaths in a machine that was originally only fit for 2.5d slow steel parts. Good luck with your Kitamura!

[@jodyolivent8481]

Nick Polanosky Thanks, that's good to know. I'll definitely dig into this more.

[@jbbauer0]

Yeah I would like to see a video on smoothing too. I have used it often lately.

[@mr1hander]

hello john... ijust switched to fusion from inventor... if you get time would it be possible to do a vid on how you made the pattern in the softjaws,,,, in inventor i used the derive feature,,, but i cant find that in fusion..

[@OriginalJetForMe]

This is great, thank you. I have a client who wants me to make a sword hilt, a 3D part. I'm pretty sure soft jaws are the answer, but I'm not at all sure how to make sure they can hold the part when it's flipped; there won't be a flat bottom, and there might be some sharp ridges that won't fit well into the cavity, because the inverse of the ridge will be too shallow due to the tool radius (does that make sense?). I don't know if Fusion can 3D dog bone a sharp inside corner/ridge.

[@shamu3838]

Maybe you already know this, but based on your feed rates, it seems you may not be familiar with what radial chip thinning is. You have this awesome software tool, (adaptive tool paths), but you are using feed rates for old school tool paths.

[@77gravity]

So should his feed rates be higher or lower?

[@dudemcgee256]

Much higher. We use micro tooling and regularly feed 1/8" flat end mills at full flute depth (.1875") at 50 ipm. You actually get a much better finish and your tools will last much longer.

[@sitoru]

what if you used wood for the soft jaws? would they not hold as good?

[@MTknives]

Great video, Love it!

[@pprotory]

Did you cover the soft jaw creation for this or any other odd object for that matter in fusion 360? I feel like you did and I saw the video but when I searched all I could find was the one for solidworks from 2014.

[@pprotory]

I found it lol. It was the last vid I would have thought it was. The vid you did on plastics is where you methodically covered the soft jaw creation. As always thanks again!

[@ElYnzekto]

Hi John, what if you try it with holding tabs?

[@upgradeworld6511]

Can I know do you using fanuc control CNC machine?

[@AhmedMohamed-yj3kt]

What is the clearence should be used in soft jaws

[@adamantprize12]

Ever thought of live streaming CNC-machining or just manual machining - metalworks on twitch? i would watch it

[@robertkutz]

john nice work.

[@bradleynealdaley]

No need to have the whole OD clamped, especially what is on the back side. Not sure if fusion has a draft angle viewer like SW has for mould making, but set up a plane parallel to your jaws in SW, and do a draft angle detection. Keep all surfaces with a draft of more than 1° positive at nominal relief, and all values less than +1° draft, relief by .005" That will let the part drop in easily, and since all of the + draft faces are where they are supposed to be, you don't have any issues with clamping. If you are worried about vibration of the part on the back side, then ramp into that .005 backside relief.

[@lwilton]

I wonder if it would have been worth using the superfly to clean up as much as possible of that lower surface to get a better surface finish. Obviously you couldn't have done the whole surface, but you might have ended up with a lot less tool marks.

[@dmitribovski1292]

Would have been a lot quicker as well.

[@alexanderrode6983]

Great work!

[@repalmore]

Have you ever tried hot glue to stick a part down. I'm sure that it wouldn't work for steel but do wonder if it would work for for aluminum. Very flat surface to glue to and go ahead and top it into place with a mallet when you first put it on the surface and the glue is still soft. Probably wouldn't be good for something like this because location is so important but something that just needs the backside fly cut it might be worth trying.

[@AlMg1SiCu]

I have done this before on some large, flat parts. Heated a 3/4"x12x12" piece of aluminum on a hotplate, applied hotglue, stuck down a sheet of steel. Grabbed some gloves and chucked it all in the freezer for a few minutes (Would have taken an hour to cool all of that thermal mass at ambient temp). Straight out of the freezer, into the mill, and then perfect parts came out the other side. Worked better than the superglue/carpet tape/etc. Not as convenient as a vacuum plate and cleanup was a bitch, but it got the job done.

[@repalmore]

Believe or not just a little rubbing alcohol is all that is needed to clean up the hot glue. Don't understand why but it just releases hot glue like it was made to do just that. lifehacker.com/5676237/use-rubbing-alcohol-to-remove-hot-glue-from-nearly-anything

[@AlMg1SiCu]

With that much surface area it is still a PITA. For one or two parts it works. For more than that, finding a different way is wise.

[@Sicktrickintuner]

I wish an end mill was only $8, The cold Canadian north is a bit more expensive. A good drill bit alone in 5/8" costs me $30

[@stormbringermornblade8811]

that was good john i have a lot of caching up to do lol :)

[@dougstansbury2916]

where are the transcripts located for download?

[@dougstansbury2916]

Lou Kola read it, got it. Thanks

[@asArsenic]

The shop I work in pretty much exclusively uses soft jaws on second operations.

[@cncit]

If you put your x y zero in fusion on the centre of the part for side 1 you wouldn't have to edge find it as you already know the coordinates of the vice on the machine..bit quicker is all :-)

[@gwanwangdang4942]

我来自中国，我也是一名CNC编程！虽然不懂英语，但我学到一些加工方法！非常感谢您！师傅

[@erlinghagendesign]

你现在在哪里? Herri

[@gwanwangdang4942]

SURE D 東莞

[@DenKonZenith]

For the maker-ing I do, with FDM printing, that'd be a dirt simple part 'cause it's got one completely flat side, with zero overhang. Granted, plastic's not QUITE as nice as aluminium, but budgets...

[@heronguarezi6501]

A little tighter and you do not need to close the vise. kk

[@Bigwingrider1800]

HOLLY SHIT BIG JOHN, I POP IN AND IT LOOKS LIKE YOU GET WORST...LOL

[@feltonissimo]

You would need to redesign the jaws for a production run. Some basic fixturing errors in your jaw design.

[@sn0wchyld]

care to elaborate? ive got some complex parts coming up, would be interested to know a better way

[@OriginalJetForMe]

feltonissimo yes, please elaborate. I'd like to know, too.

[@feltonissimo]

I will try to explain but I'm not very good at explaining things. That's what John is so good at. Notice how John had trouble fitting the part into the jaws. He ended having to shave a bit off here and there and eventually got a very snug fit. Well on a production job you can't afford the time to do that. You will also get variation of parts (even with a CNC machine you are going to get this). So it won't be long down the batch before he will find a component not going onto the fixture. The reason behind this is that the jaws have been designed with redundant clamping faces, where the form of the jaws goes back on itself (told you I wasn't much good at explaining things). This is also why John had to drop the component into the jaws. The best way to avoid the problem is to design the jaw profile into a shape that avoids this problem. Imagine the shape you would get if you put a rubber band around the outside of the component. Sometimes it's necessary to change the angle of orientation of the component to get a good clamping profile. Not sure if that all made sense. P.S. I wouldn't have worried about milling off the 'mushroom' profile either. Just whack it off with a good old face mill :)

[@OriginalJetForMe]

feltonissimo I think that was a fine explanation, thank you. Trivia: the "rubber band" you mention is known as a "convex hull," and is an important concept in computational geometry.

[@feltonissimo]

Thanks Rick. I like that term, 'convex hull'. My mission now is to drop it into a conversation :)

[@hugosarmiento9126]

¿te agradaría subtitulado en español?

[@flippah9101]

ahhhh taco tapas sombrero?

[@SteZane]

You have my dream job 😫

[@zomie1]

Smoothing would be a great topic :)

[@ello-mz6om]

can't you just use a piece of stock as soft jaw?

[@nobrick321]

WW134 is the best world war

[@tsw199756]

To me soft jaws with such an exact fit on. soooo much geometry on a one off part is a waste of time and money. I would use a 2nd piece of the stock or a piece of scrap laying around for a base fixture using some creative and simple clamping and have the job done and out the door while your fiddling with fitment of the soft jaws.

[@alejandroperez5368]

3D printing it would've been the appropiate approach

[@gredangeo]

5:43 ...Just get rid of this shhhhit. Oh, that's not what you were saying? ok. ;D

[@racerphilmass9283]

weld up the jaws

[@upgradeworld6511]

NYC bro