Room Mics - How to have complete control of the drum sound (Series Part 4)

[@henryhill92]

Really don't understand why this isn't the most popular music production channel on KZbin

[@creativesoundlab]

Ha, thanks man.

[@Psychotron72]

Not only am I learning, but his voice has a very calming effect on me. I love this series

[@creativesoundlab]

+Robert Pavlounis Thanks!

[@IsurusDrums]

Thank you for making this series. These are the most useful videos for recording drums that I have found.

[@creativesoundlab]

IsurusDrums Thanks!

[@jebmcgovern3744]

after watching these i got a solid drum tone with 4 mics. before i thought that all polarity switches had to face the same way and that the waves had to all face the same way. now i know better. thanx man

[@creativesoundlab]

Jeb McGovern That made my day to hear about this. If you ever post it to soundcloud or whatever, let me have a listen!

[@franzomatu]

Outstanding work! This channel makes you understand drum recording step by step. I think these videos are a must watch for both producers and drummers. Btw great drumming! All the best.

[@creativesoundlab]

Thanks Stefan!

[@justinmclaren4268]

The boundary effect you demonstrated on the floor mic also works from the ceiling. Very very useful in small rooms. Love your channel 🤙

[@thecrashharder01]

I have a session coming up this weekend in a small room. This was a great help. Thanks!

[@creativesoundlab]

+thecrashharder01 Really glad to hear this. I assume you checked out my other video on how to get a big room sound out of small spaces? kzbin.info/www/bejne/rXbKdHt7mNycj6s

[@MessiahofFire]

Really like the sound of near floor mics phase canceling some cymbals while leaving the kick and snare intact, I've been searching for how to have the least clicky tone that can still work in a metal mix, and room micing has become my new favorite way to record drums, only using close mics as a safety net in case one drum is too quiet (most drummers feather the kick, requiring a kick mic, while I'm the opposite needing a snare mic to make it cut through the barrage of kick).

[@miked5487]

I loved this series. Dude was really interesting! Do lots more room mic stuff! Love it!

[@creativesoundlab]

Thanks Mike!

[@Houstnwehavuhoh]

Holy crap that hallway complimented that snare so well!

[@creativesoundlab]

+HoustnWeHavUhoh p Are you talking about at 4:45 ? Yeah that's a cool sound.

[@intergalacticsoundsystem5733]

Your channel is amazing man. Thank you so much on this creative approach to recording music.

[@creativesoundlab]

Thanks man!

[@joshuacuthbert3465]

I subscribed to your channel simply because of those beautiful diffusers.

[@creativesoundlab]

Haha, thanks! Glad to have you here!

[@TheJoshery]

Holy crap the positioning at 4:45 is gold

[@miked5487]

Something I noticed what can work well if your room is small but your ceiling is a reasonable height. Is kill the ceiling with floating absorbers. I found my overheads to pickup a much more pleasant sound from my cymbals that way.

[@creativesoundlab]

Yeah, your right. I actually have a cloud above the drum kit in the live room. You can dial in the room by it's height. Works wonders.

[@MrBendertheOffender]

I have so many things to work on my recordings and techniques... I may stay awake for a couple days hahahaha.. thanks for putting so much effort on the videos and sharing knowledge. My drumset is quite big 5 toms, 2 snares ... hopefully you'll have a litte time to hear my recordings and I'll be glad to have some feedback.. once again thanks for sharing all this knowledge

[@creativesoundlab]

MrBendertheOffender Sure thing! Having more drums is like having a little mixing board vs a big mixing board...it's the same concepts, just repeated a few more times. Remember the overheads are the outline for the close microphones to fill in. I record a drummer with 10 toms once and we didn't have enough microphones because we were also recording live in the same room. We were very pleased with how the recording came out. I used kick, snare, snare bottom, and three overheads to record everything. Check out my other video on dialing in the sound of the overheads by the mic position. You can use this positioning to take down the volume of the cymbals, and get more toms into those overheads. I know it sounds crazy, but it worked for me. The client said it sounded as if the toms where miced up. Here's the overhead video about the cymbals: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z3jNi62Nm7t7atU

[@peterverberne2410]

brilliant as always. The best vids on the tube man!

[@creativesoundlab]

Thanks!

[@sazarod]

Your tutorials are awesome! thanks so much.

[@creativesoundlab]

gregvalou Thank you for saying hello and glad you enjoy them!

[@lbsmoothmusic]

great work keep them coming

[@creativesoundlab]

lbsmoothmusic Thanks!

[@ogsamosa]

"refucktive surface" 9:45

[@creativesoundlab]

Dude, hilarious!

[@jeremylynch5182]

Really appreciate the help! Very well made and very good information. Thank you for doing this!

[@creativesoundlab]

+Jeremy Lynch Thanks!

[@Salantsoundstudios]

these are great videos and great sounds, you really know some great theory and practical techniques, thanks for sharing!

[@StephenTack]

Yet more great tips, and tasty food for thought! Back before I built my live room, I'd have to go into churches at night to record drums. I got some HUGE drum sounds, but learned quickly to bring along at least one large, thick, absorption device... If you play with set drum and room mic placement (walk around clapping, or hitting a snare, and listening), then find the one or two worst sounding reflections, and take them out with absorption, you can make most less-than-perfect rooms sound good quickly. A couple times when I first started, I recorded drums in a clothes donation storeage room (basically anechoic), and I wondered why my drums sounded puny and fake...turns out it's the room sound that gives your ear/brain perspective as to the size and quality of a sound source. Try taking your most gnarly snare to the middle of an open grassy field, with nothing around, and hitting it really hard. I guaranty it will sound much smaller than you expect. One way I was able to make the totally dead drum sounds usable was by putting a room modeling reverb like Waves TrueVerb on the drum bus, and doing a LOT of tweaking with settings until the drums sounded large and believable. Reamping is much more fun, but not always feasible.

[@creativesoundlab]

Stephen Tack Yeah, before I was in this studio I would often put a short reverb on a return and send the snare and under side mic to it. It took a lot of tweaking. I realize snare reamping may not be feasible for everyone, but on the other side I think the more you tweak the sounds, the less it was right to begin with. It's an uphill battle that home studios have the time to spend tweaking. It's a lot of time, and sometimes doesn't get you there. Even a small boom box playing a soloed snare track in reverberant room and recorded with a Zoom recorder could sound amazing compared to digital reverbs or plug ins. I also say this, as I'm coming from a stylize and minimal approach...lots of reamping, reverb chambers, real drums, vintage tube amps, old organs, ect. I've done lots of the mix-the-heck-out-of-it mentality, and over time I settled on the hands on approach of reverb chambers, reamping,ect. Back to the reverbs...I use to use Altiverb a lot and loved it for it's short verb sounds. I remember the Jet Studios IR settings sounded really cool. Ever try that plugin?

[@creativesoundlab]

Stephen Tack yeah, good point on the reverb on the snare vs going outside and playing drums. The drum sound is almost the room itself. I have a feeling this video is just scratching the surface of what I should cover.

[@StephenTack]

creativesoundlab I haven't tried Altiverb, I'll have to check it out. A couple times when I really had a lot of time to spare I played with impulse/convolution reverb, specifically ReaVerb, and some room/hall/cave impulses (made in real spaces) I found online. It's really another level of rabbit hole into fiddly ITB effects, but you can get some amazingly lush and/or realistic reverbs. Fun to play with, but I agree, I'd rather work with real out-of-the-box sounds that I have at hand.

[@greagandev]

These are awesome tutorials. It sure is hard to make an R88 sound bad though. That is a great mic.

[@creativesoundlab]

+George Reagan Yeah, it always sounds good.

[@nersonangelo]

Great Great Work.. Thanx much..

[@maggotgreece]

that's really cool tips! thank you!

[@creativesoundlab]

maggotgreece Thanks!

[@naminnooman]

Fantastic...fantastic...fantastic.. You are the Rocket Scientist of drum recording and even video production! I mean do you actually write in reverse on glass when you explain???LOL. I look forward to every video you make. Thanks so much for sharing brother...

[@stijnvanrijsbergen8255]

He probably writes normally, then mirrors the shot ;) also yes love these vids

[@MassiveDerek]

Did you build the diffuser yourself?

[@VIADeth]

great video! you put very much effort into this videos, i can tell ! you covered mainly mono ambience, but what about stereo? the reason i ask is because i heard that you have to "decorrelate" both mics while positioning, but i really can't tell you why (neither can google lol). i guess it's because mono compatibility...

[@creativesoundlab]

VIADeth Yeah good point on being mono. My focus was on placement, and knowing how to shape the sounds your getting, but for application I always duplicate the process with a second mic. I'll cover stereo room mics in Part 5. As far as the decorrelation, it may be in regard to the 3 to 1 rule. I've never really worried about that rule, and I see it broken all the time. I think there are many reflections and factors at play, and sometimes it's more important to address other issues (bad flutter in the room, loud cymbals in a possition, ect) than the 3 to 1 rule. That's why it's an "art" to recording drums. It's hard to come up with a "right" answer, although there are things that work in art such as composition/symmetry/color/negative space.

[@sagecarter2368]

NICE. But where’s part 5?

[@beedoovideo]

Love your channel, Man ;)

[@SoundBoss5150]

Great stuff, but where's #5!?

[@creativesoundlab]

+SoundBoss5150 Part 5: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gWqxm5iZe6uif7M

[@Apriccot]

Thanks brother

[@gabrielazzopardi6037]

what would be a good size for a room?

[@creativesoundlab]

Gabriel Azzopardi My room is about 180 cubic meters or 4500 cubic feet. (The measurements are about 5 meters x 8 meters with 4 meters high, or 15 ft x 25 x 12 feet high) Any room with some volume to it will be good. Mine is on the small end but it still works. Rooms can sound bigger than they seem when you put a drum set in them.

[@dedik8SKB]

9:45 refucktive surface

[@nersonangelo]

Hi Ryan just a quick question, room mic is not facing front of drums and on the side instead, will it result to some problems?

[@LoveRec0rds]

hey Ryan... nice vids ... Ive been working on drums for about a month now and Im finnally getting a decent sound but its too hollow I mean theres something missing... and im pretty sure because I dont use a room mic since my drum room its extremely small I mean it was a small bath room and you can barely fit a 4 piece in it and play fairly comfortable and it is very very dry since I put foam all over it even the ceiling ... so my question is.. do I still have hope about setting up a room mic? I use an akg 414 with an akg c3000 as overheads using the MS technique ... shure beta 98 AMP on toms a 57 on snare.. I was wondering if I could use the cheap shure pg81 on overheads and use the 414 as a room mic with a figure 8 pattern ... and also could you elaborate more on the in utero drum sound? ive been searching all over and no luck you are the only person that has brought it up... thanx

[@sandrok.distilo9988]

Hello, thanks for Your Video .. Your work is Precious! I would like to ask you a question about condencer microphones recordings (I have the apex 460, akg c12 clone, max spl 125 db) .. I would like to use it to shoot close micing of drum kick, bass amp and guitar amp speakers. do I risk of damaging it? or, at worst I would get a clipped sound? thank you for your attention!

[@creativesoundlab]

I don't think it would damage it, but keep in mind what the mic says it can handle, and that sound can get pretty loud when a cm away from a source. It's best if the mic has a built in pad so that the circuitry of the mic doesn't clip, then check that the preamp doesn't clip, and you should be fine.