DM Thinks Player Stole His "Original Character", Reacts Terribly

[@chadnorris8257]

The DM saw the character, and had an entire month to talk about any problem he had. But decided to be petty, and wait until the character was in the game before trashing him. What a child.

[@MoldyBones27]

Exactly! Any even half-decent DM without an ego trip would find a way to not care or make your own supposed “ripped off OC” more diverse then that, it is on the DM. Not the players. If you can not find enjoyment in just RUNNING the game then you need more DM experience.

[@evilbob840]

It also wasn't just sprung on the DM in game either. He knew about it and could have said something before it even got to the table.

[@MoldyBones27]

@@evilbob840 💯🎯

[@Dudeguy37]

Ok doki

[@genericname2747]

Any DM who approves a character then complains about it when they join the game is a loser

[@calebbraun9505]

"You stole my original character." *original character is the most generic good guy imaginable.*

[@kou7191]

Not only generic, that's like, the template of what the class itself is.

[@KarmicID]

and that's fine tbh ik some of my OCs are generic but i'm not gonna hunt others because they "stole" my oc

[@informitas0117]

Crazy that DM invented the standard for paladins. He must be very old.

[@GarkKahn]

​@@informitas0117 maybe he invented dnd as well

[@sonarchy5158]

​@@GarkKahn When they say "Wizards of the Coast", they're talking about him He was the Coast all along

[@kraddanger9969]

He is so mad about this perceived plagiarism. But from what we are told here, his campaign revolves around traveling around the world closing portals that connect our world to one that will destroy us..... That's the plot of the main story line in oblivion...

[@willwallinger5932]

I was thinking the same thing haha. Maybe if you don't want someone accidentally stealing your character, don't make something so generic?

[@2g33ksgamingttv3]

Oblivion, the first quarter of Dragon Age Inquisition, probably more too. HARDLY a new concept for a campaign, making the stealing accusations even more ironic

[@atk9989]

It's also the plot to Dragon Age Inquisition. A nearly 10 year old game now.

[@derekstapleton3396]

It's also the story of Rift

[@Lorekeeper_GGuy]

Astral Chain falls under this too but more “the world’s already been destroyed because of these portals so you have to defend the last place they haven’t destroyed”

[@whodistoodis]

The funniest thing is that the "secretly narcissistic and flawed" part isn't referring to OP's character, its referring to this sad DM.

[@iamaunicorn1232]

That's a good point. DM wasn't offended because the character mocked his precious Good Boi OC. DM felt like it mocke *HIM*.

[@tobiasaibot1317]

it's not a secret 😂

[@Crimzon_Nova]

All of the sudden OPs flaws don’t seem as heavy. They were overshadowed by another’s.

[@generalgamer50]

One point for CritCrab; He mentioned his first character had died a month before to a Beholder. I think they are at the level where his backstory should be no problem.

[@Saru5000]

Here to mention that, too. It's clear this isn't a first level character based everything about the set-up. Basically all the words crit crab read before making that comment.

[@skynyrdjesus]

Well, it was also apparently an unwinnable battle with a beholder, so it's entirely possible the party was still fairly low level.

[@mybigwillie6153]

@@skynyrdjesus well a beholder fight can be unwinnable for various party levels. A beholder in its lair is CR14 and that can make a level 9 party have a hard time. so unwinnable could still be level 6 or even 7. The player didn't come back until a month of sessions later. I assume that means 4 for once a week but it could be more, and if the sessions are long its possible they gained many levels. I can see a level 9 paladin having a lot of renown across the land which he did have, but not across several realms which I would expect out of a level 20 paladin. Nearing level 10 I would expect some form of renown greater than "they killed some monsters for some vilagers" and its possible the importance that his church places on him is disproportionate to his level as well, like they could expect him to face down a dragon and he might lose because their idea of him is more than he can live up to. There's a lot of nuance, or at least there can be, but I would say level 9 is powerful enough to have some specific notoriety or fame that his character had.

[@Saru5000]

@@skynyrdjesus but presumably not a first level. At the lowest they'd be upper single digits otherwise the beholder fight would have been a quick tpk.

[@MrTrollMedic]

Slaying dragons is one thing but a lot of people are forgetting a lv1 adventurer is still a pretty powerful person compared to a commoner. There's the "Folk Hero" background for a reason, your character isn't fresh out of the womb nor are they picking up a sword for the first time. It's perfectly reasonable a church's champion would be, say, a level 3 paladin or seeing a level 1 fighter saying they are a commander, here's one of the options for the folk hero background: "Recruited into a lord's army, I rose to leadership and was commended for my heroism." This is what you *start* your character with at level 1. You could even slay a dragon and be at level 1 (if you disregard XP), maybe you were just a common guy whose city was being attacked by a dragon, you saw the men arming the ballista but they're already dead, you loose it and its a lucky shot. Your character still hasn't "gained experience" in a more real sense, they just loosened a ballista and it happened to land a killing blow. I feel like people often forget DnD adventurer's are extraordinary from the get go.

[@zoliking]

A well known powerful hero who is privately a massive, ill tempered narcissist jackass is not an original character, it's Homelander.

[@darklordaranyx2467]

Exactly what I thought

[@gustavohc18]

It's actually such and old trope.

[@Konpekikaminari]

Homelander, and the/an antagonist of basically every other modern Isekai anime

[@Abraham_the_pierra]

or gabriel ultrakill.

[@gustavohc18]

Remember Ozymandias from the Watchmen

[@euanosborne4254]

"We needed to replace a wheel on our horse (don't ask)" Leaving us hanging like that is just cruel.

[@LupusArgentum]

I bet it was a prosthetic leg replacement wheel because they ran out of food in the middle of nowhere.

[@Nerobyrne]

Me after hearing the description of the paladin: "You're playing Homelander."

[@Flamingo48923]

“We can’t just rush in” “I’m the paladin and I’ll do whatever the fuck I want”

[@gremlininblue2601]

Then again, there was a chance for and a want for a redemption arc of him actually becoming the hero everyone thinks he is. Homelander doesnt have that in the cards

[@faisalhussain2270]

You just discovred Garth Ennis isn't a very original writer 💀

[@Nerobyrne]

@@faisalhussain2270 why, because someone else copied him? 😂

[@xxkillbotxx7553]

@@Nerobyrne No because the Homelander trait isn't new by any means

[@linda-0587]

The saddest thing is, the DM is most likely cheering within his own stupid little mind, thinking he actually accomplished something noteworthy, when all he likely did, was out himself as a whiny crybaby, and turned the table against him

[@Zorothegallade-gg7zg]

"Yaaaay my totally awesome mary sue is winning and his character is losing in this game where I can make up all the rules, tee hee"

[@shadowrose8907]

I mean, apparently the table didn't DO anything despite knowing what a petty child the DM was being, so did they really even turn against him?

[@paulman34340]

@@shadowrose8907 Nope, but I CAN see it biting everyone INCLUDING him in the ass some day! The others KNOW he has a fragile ego and is willing to the game to air out real life drama and issues and now that he's "tasted blood" he is VERY likely to do it again to anyone that "displeases/slights him" and that's not going to end good for him when they have enough and/or he scares them all out! The table made it worse by NOT calling him out or stopping his bad behavior, so he now thinks it's OKAY to do it! He won the battle, but he's going to lose the war, and then he's going to blame EVERYONE but himself for "not stopping him when they should have!" This is the fate that awaits a BAD DM who gets away with bad behavior! When they realize "Karma for bad deeds doesn't exist" they get a sense of "Invincibility" which can lead to stuff like ONE EX DM I knew was a bully and a creep, thing was he chose a player who had both a "HAND" problem AND Anger Issues! So once he provoked him enough as he did others, he got a BEATING for his trouble! He never DM anymore and tends to "watch his words and actions" now. Fearful of it happening again (He played around and found out if you will)

[@spend03]

@@shadowrose8907a lot of times players just kinda stay quite mostly because it’s rlly ducking awkward to speak up against your dm.

[@bwestacado9643]

​@@spend03 You mean the hobby is riddled with gutless cowards.

[@lilithlux8127]

I definitely would have told everyone else in the party that hey , I was gonna play a couple more rounds , but I was told by the DM that I wasn't needed anymore.

[@matthewcharles9813]

Agreed. Drives me crazy how the victim just doesn't call them out.

[@CoOlKyUbI96]

I would have too. IF the player was already communicating his thoughts throughout the campaign. But he lost his right to voice his concerns THAT late into the campaign when he already allowed the DM to walk all over him

[@Rebell-mi4zu]

@@matthewcharles9813I feel like bad rpg horror story victims usually never call out stuff is usually for a few reason. Like they don’t think it’s a big deal, they don’t wanna risk dragging everyone else into the problem, etc. And especially in this story, op most likely just thought it would be useless. The damage is done. Kinda pointless to call out a problem that technically is already over, even if it wasn’t in your favor. Though I do agree OP should have done more, I don’t really blame them for not wanting to maybe just drag the situation on longer.

[@SWTobito0702]

​@@Rebell-mi4zuWhat gets me is that OP had already planned to be a petty bastard to close out his last few sessions. Why suddenly make it easier for that cunt of a DM, now that he's got officially nothing left to lose.

[@informitas0117]

The DM didn't communicate about the supposed "OC" (seriously, what a joke) for several months. The player didn't communicate about the abuse, for, what, a year? This whole group is very bad at communicating.

[@Juju2927]

How fragile of an ego you must have to consider any "Général character concept" as an attempt to steal your OC, and then bully said player with your "GM powers" until they quit by themselves.

[@byronsmothers8064]

@@Juju2927 OP tried to go out ceremoniously, and GM had the last laugh by kicking him on the logic that he's replaced.

[@erikdahl6861]

ohhh did you put those és because you didn't wanna be flagged as a bot?

[@Juju2927]

@@erikdahl6861 I'm french, my auto correct put them since it's the same word than english but with those.

[@erikdahl6861]

@@Juju2927 ah, okay, that makes more sense. good to know!

[@UlyssesK402]

"YOU STOLE MY COMMENT IDEA!!!11!!!1!"

[@byronsmothers8064]

The irony behind the GM's paladin lacking written narcissism is proven by how self absorbed the GM is about his character, GM just can't see past his rose-tinted glasses.

[@psalmy26]

Rofl true

[@pleasenottoday]

I was going to post exactly that but not going to now since I don't want to steal your idea

[@hookfancy9879]

Not just that but "Big man in shiny armor who everyone loves" is the most generic and bland paladin design I've ever seen. Anyone trying out paladin or trying to get better at playing paladin has made a character just like that.

[@Fl0wchart]

"My character is a shining heroic paladin" *Threatens PCs with physical violence if they don't obey him* DM's idea of a "good guy" invoking second-hand slavery upon his allies tells you all you need to know about this DM.

[@byronsmothers8064]

@@Fl0wchart something I failed to note with my initial comment: not only did the GM bully OP for presumed plagiarism, he also made it clear he was never okay with the party's anti-hero approach to his campaign from the start, opting the stick over the carrot to put them on the route of "altruism".

[@monos99]

"Waaahhhhh, you're stealing my completely unique OC" Meanwhile the DM is blatantly just copying the plot of Elder Scrolls Oblivion

[@RageUnchained]

😂

[@Abysmaldivine]

Crazy have similar elements in your campagin makes it a rip off, dumbass

[@bendystrawz2832]

Apparently, this group has been playing the anti-hero playstyle for a while before OP's first character died, so I don't think the DM had a problem with the playstyle at all. I think he just felt personally slighted and decided he was gonna bring his own "OC" in. The only reason the focus became lawful good is because the OC was lawful good and he played the character like that. And "Paladin in Gold armor" is borderline cliché at this point. It's not bad, but it's definitely something that already exists.

[@informitas0117]

Well, the DM invented Paladins by himself, so of course he wanted to play one even if he happens to DM as well.

[@GarkKahn]

At this point everything is based on other stuff But some characters are more cliché than others

[@Dookieman1975]

Problem is the DM using the dmpc hero to force everyone to act like him. Even if they’d do that that’s just annoying and a band of shady people isn’t gonna let that slide but the players did. The players were accommodating but the DM wasnt

[@shadenox8164]

Not borderline, it is a cliché.

[@AllanSavolainen]

Our groups would usually drop a NPC if it was too powerful, they are supposed to be background characters, usually not take part in battles and when they do, they just support or take evade actions unless told to do something by some PC

[@TheGetawayGuy]

It sounds like the party was Guardians of the Galaxy and the DM decided they needed to be policed by "Superman as described by people who have never actually read/watched Superman"

[@Ebonzai]

Funny enough the GotG video game.

[@HatteusFedoran]

Golden Paladin saying that they were comrades who should work together for righteousness, then threatening violence when laughed at by those 'comrades'. What a noble and holy paragon.

[@Caldera_Scarab]

That could've also been worked into the character! Make them a "righteous hero" who is loved by all, but secretly a narci- oh wait... thats just Homelander.

[@kendrixhavlik3051]

The funniest thing about this is that the suppedly "stolen" character concept is just "Generic Paladin"

[@Anarch_Bushey]

Literally cardboard cut of a character T_T like dude I couldn't possibly handle that level of cringe from a DM

[@streakyanchovy]

One of my current DND characters is what people would call a “generic paladin” (literal golden Dragonborn with shiny armor and all) but I made her like this on purpose to contrast the edgier characters in the horror campaign we’re all in and I ham her up to the point where she comes off as cheesy for comedic purposes. It all depends on how you play the character and what context you use them in. Part of the fun of DnD is being able to put fresh spins on characters that may not have the most original concepts.

[@kendrixhavlik3051]

@@streakyanchovy Sorry, I did not mean to imply that archetypical characters are bad, more pointing out how ridiculous it is that the guy in the story somehow thought he was the first to come up with it.

[@streakyanchovy]

@@kendrixhavlik3051 It’s okay. I wasn’t commenting with the intention of saying you were wrong or anything. I meant to say that the DM in this story was dumb to assume that just because OP’s character BG was fairly similar to their’s, (and we all know how popular the paladin in shining armor is) it doesn’t immediately mean that their character is a deliberate ripoff. From the sound of it, OP’s character is different enough from the DM’s, and if the DM has such a big problem about it, they could have said something upfront instead of being passive-aggressive. I definitely agree with what you’re saying here. My apologies if my original comment came off any other way.

[@thepanelbiter9915]

Dude. OP wanted to play d&d Homelander, and DM said, “no but Homelander isn’t bad!”

[@Cuiasodo]

Not only is this person weirdly vindictive and paranoid, but they're also a bad DM. Giving your team useful NPCs is one thing, but your players lose all agency if every problem they encounter is hand-waved by a tag-along NPC. Also, like, threatening violence at the drop of a hat when someone does something you don't like isn't the heroic flex you think it is, my dude.

[@alaeacusmcfly4353]

Coercion via threat of potential violence is literally one of the least morally good things you could do, especially for something extremely trivial like "which path should we take".

[@robjsmiles]

Not just a tag-along NPC, a straight up DMPC

[@austingaw5851]

Yeah, if I have NPC's that are skilled and tag along with the party I try to make anything that they do that is helpful give a bonus to the players to actually solve the problem. Tracking a monster? The hunter with you can give you a +2 to your survival skill check if you ask him for help. Keeps the players firmly in the Main Characters slot while making certain NPC's more likable. DMPC's are always done with so little thought, and also those thoughts never include the DM's players in the thoughts.

[@matsh5633]

I'm surprised they didn't all gang up on the DMPC, even if it would've derailed the campaign.

[@Konpekikaminari]

I hate the stories where the bully wins, so open comment for the DM because I need to get this out: Congrats for canonising your golden boy OC as a bully with a fragile ego

[@animeotaku307]

The moment he starts putting his hand on his sword as a threat is the point where I would full on call him out on not being the hero he presents himself as. I’d just tell him “go ahead. Strike me down and prove I’m right.”

[@marcruth4531]

​@@animeotaku307My thoughts exactly. It's baffling how many of these Tiny Dong Energy DMs think that a "heroic" character would openly threaten violence against their own party. That's not how ANY of that works...

[@followeroftheprince]

​​@@animeotaku307 I wonder what oath golden boy was. An Oath that allows the Chaotic Good action of threatening violence on people who jeer each other? A lot of Oaths probably wouldn't like attacking people like that

[@shadenox8164]

@@followeroftheprince The only one I can think of is Vengeance, but that doesn't really suit the image he's trying to create.

[@steveng6721]

This feels like a creative writing exercise, theres no way any adult would tolerate this situation.

[@freshnightmares]

what i find interesting about this tale is that the DMPC reveals some true narcissistic qualities of the DM's personality. The supposed stolen paladin behaving more selfishly despite his renowned status acts as an interesting mirror to the DM that behaves selfishly while playing a heroic character.

[@jareddixon9108]

It’s poetic in a weird, cringey way.

[@SunshowerHeathcliffBeliever]

Misread “DM” as “DK” I cannot describe the scene that played out in my mind with a straight face

[@WorldWalker128]

Imagining Donkey Kong throwing a temper tantrum over a TTRPG character is hysterical!

[@Lorekeeper_GGuy]

@@WorldWalker128Movie DK absolutely would

[@bendystrawz2832]

"Diddle Kid is here!"

[@Bla_bla_bla939]

Hey wait a sec i recognize you i watch your limbus videos you do cool stuff man keep it up

[@theblackbaron4119]

​@@WorldWalker128 Certified "chimp out"

[@marybdrake1472]

Two people can easily make similar characters just by chance alone. This DM was guilty of a pointless overreaction. The DM also acted like a spoiled child.

[@ablunt-headedtreesnake6094]

Oh yeah For one of the games I play in another player and I both independently showed up to session zero with a half-elf/half-elf passing charisma caster (bard/sorcerer and sorcerer) with the acolyte background, parental issues, forced to hide or repress their magic for personal safety, a comfortable but heavily regimented upbringing and a knack for finding trouble due to the campaign being their first taste of freedom. And you know? They still felt like completely different people, because one was naive and inexperienced while the other was rebellious and wild. For context we're both LGBTQ and live in the American South so of course we're gonna make these types of characters lmao

[@ablunt-headedtreesnake6094]

Basically they were foils, not copies. Sucks the other person had to leave due to work obligations...

[@marybdrake1472]

@@ablunt-headedtreesnake6094 Same archetype, different people. Who would have imagined? XD And you're both LGBTQ too, that's honestly kind of funny. I'm LGBTQ as well, the T in LGBTQ.

[@SirFailsalot91]

"There are only seven stories, and they've all been told already." Someone's already come up with the same idea you have, no matter how original you think your idea is - so long you can put your own spin on it and make it unique to you, that's what matters.

[@marybdrake1472]

@@SirFailsalot91 Yeah.

[@DaoYeLung]

Well that's 20 minutes of my life I'm not getting back. Instead of standing up for themselves they just let the dm bully them into leaving. Was anyone at the table even their friend? No one stood for them?

[@MamaBearKS]

Exactly, I came away from this story pissed, I don't even blame OP at all but wow nobody stood up to the DM's terrible behavior and told him to get a life and stop being so petty?!

[@mrbojangles-84]

I agree 100%. Why did these important conversations happen behind closed doors? If it is clear to both you and other players that you are being railroaded, bring it up to the table. A very frustrating end to this story.

[@Michaeljack81sk]

I blame OP for not standing up and calling DM out in front of the other players. I blame the players for letting this BS go on. Everybody sucks here but DM is just the worst

[@CoOlKyUbI96]

I do think they did act a bit spineless. The DM acted like a little child despite being an adult. And the other adults just let the DM walk all over them

[@verdandex]

So many of these reddit stories could just be solved by the OP just growing a backbone.

[@Alleister207]

DMPC:"That is no way to be comrades, we have to work together!" Also DMPC: threatens the party with physical violence anytime they don't blindly follow his directives

[@corranhorn85]

I'm most surprised that this didn't turn into physical violence. He's an NPC. Players spend all their time fighting NPCs.

[@DragonKnightX12]

@@corranhorn85 What I was thinking. Some of these people got no balls, and don't stand up for their fellow players against garbage DMs..

[@ethbeatthem4836]

The Golden Hero is a trope in fairy tales and fiction, the DM Golden Knight isn’t the only or first Golden Knight out there, they have different backstories with OP wanting to do something different and make the Golden Hero a selfish narcissist who learns care for other and what his title really means. All to say DM characters not that Original of an idea, and ruining a campaign over petty jealousy isn’t cool.

[@trevorodell5564]

If he'd wanted to, he could have even made the golden rivalry a fun story arc, or an actually valuable lesson, or growth motivation. Instead, he just set out to out-narcissist the narcissist.

[@willropa4226]

Player tries to steal wagon wheel from innocent travelers. *Golden Paladin readies his sword against Player* Player angrily haggles with shopkeeper who's clearly overpricing. *Golden Paladin readies his sword against Player* Player gives half of their loaf of bread to a hungry child. *Golden Paladin readies his sword against Player* I'm joking around, but seriously. The railroading was off the hook and the Paladin was threatening them so much, it's a wonder why they're not an Oathbreaker or Evil.

[@cosmicspacething3474]

Sounds like a lawful neutral to me

[@hugofontes5708]

​​@@cosmicspacething3474even if that character is somehow accurately LN and backs every "I'm the law" with credible violence threats, I just don't get how the fuck the party didn't just dump him or fought him. So much boring overbearing nonsense and not a single "lol bring it" against an *NPC*, it's not even pvp

[@shadowtheshadowlord]

It's a wonder they didn't say f it, we attack the paladin

[@shadowtheshadowlord]

​@@hugofontes5708heck even if it was pvp, the paladin started it by threatening to attack first

[@pattycake520]

That's because an OC from a DM like this is obviously strong enough to solo a whole party. The players wouldn't stand a chance.

[@JeremyBearimy913]

The funny thing is that if OP and DM had actually collaborated and consented to it, a plot line surrounding two nearly identical golden knights but one is a narcissistic tool the people have disdain for while the other is truly a beloved hero of the people has alot of potential for a good storyline.

[@shadenox8164]

Personally going that route I'd probably have the tool one as the famous one because he spent so much time on marketing while the actually good one didn't care about his reputation and just helped people.

[@whale8722]

@@shadenox8164 Yes! This could make such a good story

[@dirk-martinscheel3519]

I genuinely don't know why OP didn't talk to the other players earlier. They could have ditched the DMPC way earlier and continue without him. Or if the DM always return him, take him on his challenge and don't let him bully them into moral submission, especially if all the group was morally grey. And finally, fight him if necessary. Might have ended the campaign, but at least the players would have stayed together.

[@alaeacusmcfly4353]

Yeah seriously. The first time this "Golden Paladin" gripped his sword in an intimidation tactic, I would have rolled an attack against him on principle. No self-respecting adventurer will just let some dude tagging along coerce them through threat of violence to do what they want.

[@BadassHater1]

I don't want to victim blame but..yeah OP had all the chances to call out this BS but he didn't. It does not matter how good the roleplay is. If you do not like something - SAY IT.

[@karisasani7006]

@@alaeacusmcfly4353 Chances are high he would've made it be a dc of 30 or something

[@armandpeanutspinou3430]

Im surprised why they didnt leave him in the middle of the night or simply gang up on him when he “puts his hand on his sword”

[@QuixoteBadger]

Sadly, while it was stated by op that the character resembling the DM's oc was pure coincidence. They may have inadvertently created a perfect recreation. Narcissistic, arrogant, and rude? Yep, sounds like this DM's unoriginal self insert to me.

[@dioliksniper5618]

5:57 I mean, if the last fight was a Beholder and a month has passed with more sessions to be had, I definitely think this isn’t level one. Maybe level 6, most likely levels 8 or 9, so increase the level by one it is a character most likely from level 7 to 10.

[@do3807]

Yeah my thoughts when I heard Beholder

[@shocknawe]

I just usually play as Hodic the Sedgenog. He’s a marine coloured anthropomorphic porcupine who can go super fast and loves Chilly Dogs. Original Character. Do NOT steal.

[@RageUnchained]

My favorite to play is Marius he’s a fighter who wears a red helmet and attacks his enemies by jumping on them. He’s usually high on mushrooms

[@supercat765]

In the game I am currently in there is an NPC of a former player's character that is a blue colored tabaxi named Sanic, or at least that is what he calls himself. He is clinically insane, his official home address is a mental institution, and believes he is a hedgehog.

[@keeganlafferty1395]

if I was OP after the first fight where the enemies were focusing only on me and constantly hitting despite my high AC I would've asked the DM right there at the table: "do you have some sort of grudge against me? because it seems like you're fudging quite a few rolls just to screw me over, not to mention the unnecessary checks for trivial things that have humiliating results when I fail them" and then demanded that any future combat rolls he makes are done out in the open for the party to see, just to make sure he's calling them right

[@thegreendragoninn8730]

Yeah, I don't get why people allow themselves to be targeted, especially when they're aware that it's happening.

[@keeganlafferty1395]

@@thegreendragoninn8730 furthermore he should've told the other players what the DM told him and had them conspire to kick the DMPC out of the party and force the DM to stop bullying OP

[@Insertia_Nameia]

It's pretty easy. I say this aa someone that used to let a lot of shite slide because I didn't have the social skills to know how to handle them in even semi appropriate ways where I also wouldn't jus get immediately shit down and ignored. (technically I still struggle with that, I just adopted an attitude that if people don't want to listen I'll sink the entire ship to spite one person. LoL) ​I still often struggle because I'm the type people tend immediately assume they can walk all over then they get all upsetti spaghetti mello dramatic when that doesn't work. Sometimes if I can just don't feel the person is worth any of my emotional investment (and I can be rather emotionally lazy, it's why I don't hate people. Too much like work that is,) I'll let it slide for a while before just quietly packing my stuff and leaving everyone on read. Not the most mature way, but that's usually when I'm just too apathetic about the situation, and he person(s) hassling me to bother caring. By that point ive long since checked out. Especially if I tried to actually communicate beforehand. But I can do that because while I easily form attachments to people, they're easily severed with no real harm to me done. @@thegreendragoninn8730

[@bwestacado9643]

Scared wimps. Seriously. It's every damn story I hear

[@DoctorOaks]

On your 1st point against the player, since we don't know what level the party is, since it's something like 12ish sessions in when he comes back with the newly rolled up character, he may actually supposed to be at a level of said magnitude.

[@MamaBearKS]

Yeah I felt the same, like he glossed over that fact to try and appeal to both sides in the story. I don't know, but it seemed like a bit of an oversight.

[@norandomnumbers]

Especially if they fought against a beholder before, even if they lost.

[@arcaneJolt]

They were fighting a beholder when OP lost his first character, so i dont think it was a low level party, maybe level 9 or 10 ish?

[@sinlaire_art]

And I think the player said that the character has the fame because of the seemingly selfless deed he's done and because the church/temple prop him up as their representative, and has political angle on that. So it make sense if people see him as a celebrity based on that reputation and rumor, even if the character isn't an all powerful being and just good at what he's doing.

[@nekomancer47]

I think crab just genuinely had a brain fart and didn’t really think about that. I do think the character concept is maybe a LITTLE too grandiose and dickish and maybe not a party member I would totally love to have, but it doesn’t sound too outlandishly accomplished for a party that seems to be at a high enough level that they’re well known as “heroes” saving the world from demon portals or whatever.

[@Khadharphak]

Turned out the character was accidenatlly a perfect recreation of his DM. A golden knight who is secretly a narcissist who veils his terrible personality with passive aggressive "heroic" talk. Guess DM looked into the mirror and didn't like what he saw...

[@Antimonium]

A lawful stupid paladin? How original, how revolutionary!

[@GarkKahn]

Never heard about those characters... In the last 3 minutes

[@iamaunicorn1232]

Yep. There was OP's mistake. He made up an excuse instead of telling DM to his face "this sucks, you're a prick, your OC is stupid, I'm out" or going full Old Man Henderson. Never give the bullies the opportunity to win that easy. I hope the other players left DM to his DMPC all by himself.

[@godofmath1039]

"You stole my cookie-cutter character concept!"

[@WindmageZyphos]

“Do things my way or I will hurt you.” Yeah that’s totally a way to build teamwork. Sounds like he could use some golden earplugs to go with his golden armor.

[@schwarzerritter5724]

Having a character who gets disrespected by everyone can be fun, if that is what the player was going for. I had a wizard (actually arcane domain cleric, but she introduced herself as a wizard) who would constantly brag about her amazing magical abilities, and that she would use them to conquer the Swordcoast, but who nobody takes her seriously, because she looks like a completely normal peasant woman. I even dumpstatted Charisma so I failed more checks. But that was what the character was supposed to be. People prostrating themselves in front of the future wizard queen would have been equally as unfun as disrespecting the paladin.

[@matthewcharles9813]

This is why you voice openly how you're being mistreated from an obvious bully. You learn who your actual friends are fast that way.

[@endlessemptyvoid]

I remember, a few years ago. I was in VC with friends, doing a raid in GW2. Then, I get called a "whore" by the best friend of one of my friends (I don't remember WHY she called me that, but I sure as hell remember not being rude and not deserving this. Maybe I said something she didn't like, idk). What did my friend do? She called her best friend out, because that's what friends do! She even pressured her best friend to apologise (I got a fauxpology lol).

[@GarkKahn]

I left a group because whenever i needed help nobody even moved a finger, when i was always there for them whenever i could Better to be alone than around false friends

[@mjdoombreed]

"The People's Champion." Uh, you mean, The Rock? Muhammad Ali? How "original" DM.

[@davidtherwhanger6795]

When the DM showed OP the pic of DM's DMPC my thought was "We have a 40K Fanboy in the house."

[@BETRvids]

"I made an original character!" "Original eh? Tell me about them." "Well they're-" "It's been done." "... But I haven't told you anything about them yet." "IT'S BEEN DONE."

[@HOLDENPOPE]

This is why I don't concern myself too much with originality.

[@maxtube1952]

The funny thing is, this isn't even really a case of "everything has been done," the GM's TOTALLY ORIGINAL character was just exactly the stereotypical paladin.

[@Jackiedrewharbringer]

I can't believe DreamWorks stole this dms oc when they made Metro Man

[@XanosKnyghtshade]

There HAS to be an update to this. Like, how did their friends react when they were told to just not come back? How would you justify that as a friend?

[@Demonslayre]

"Elected by the church to be their face. Backs up his talk with skills. The people love him. Selfless hero. He's a fuckin' douche though" That's not an OC, that's Homelander. Seriously. Change "church" to "megacorp" and "paladin" to superhero.

[@Nerobyrne]

Immediately thought that!

[@PanzerHyena]

Thank you! I am glad I wasn't the only one thinking that. Neither the DM nor the OP did anything but reskin Homelander.

[@ledrid6956]

You could do this to literally any character? I can promise you if this is enough for you to not consider it an "OC" then you have never created anything original in your life, even outside of characters.

[@nekomancer47]

@@ledrid6956agreed. All the people just saying “lmao it’s just homelander” are missing the point. The story isn’t REALLY about the character itself and how original/unoriginal he is; it’s about the DM mistakenly believing that OP stole his character when the parallels between them are just generic, surface level coincidences, and then bullying OP for it. Nothing is really “original” anymore. Something is always based off of something else. If something being inspired by another thing or sharing similarities to something else is enough to make these people roll their eyes, idk how they enjoy anything. It’s like looking at a game like Hat in Time, seeing the character wears a hat, jumps on platforms, and collects shiny things, and completely discounting it as being “just Mario”

[@doge9455]

Homelander is not an original character type

[@TailAbNormal]

Why is it ALWAYS a paladin that ends up being the overpowered self-insert DMPC?

[@shadenox8164]

Because the image of the holy warrior of justice appeals to that personality type?

[@KurvyKirby]

YOU STOLE FIZZY LIFTING POTION

[@Rybott68]

Only 3 minutes in, but it's just Homelander the Paladin

[@zakuraRabbit]

Being replaced... by a DMPC...and then kicked out because your spot is already taken/stolen by the DMPC... Wow. Dick move. Probably better to leave because that DM sounds incredibly petty and annoying to deal with. Shame about the rest of the group but fuck that DM...

[@fomori2]

Fuck those players too if they keep playing with that DM and dont have your back.

[@ethcom]

"Hey, that's from my script..."

[@tophr2710]

Lol nice

[@suzannepottsshorts]

Your "script" is just Star Wars!

[@marvinmageVA]

DM: My OC is such a kind and virtuous knight of the light!!!!!! Also DM: [has his OC *literally threaten the party with his sword whenever they don't do what he wants*]

[@Smok_Argus]

I'm surprised the rest of the party didn't talk to the DM as well, they clearly saw what was happening and chose not to address it. That's shitty behavior as well.

[@dr3dg352]

Your timing couldn't be better, Crab King. This morning I learned my father-in-law passed away, and am now frantically cleaning my house before a friend comes over to take care of the cats this weekend. Absolutely nothing better than a new Crit Crab video when I'm cleaning. 💜 Edit: WOW this DM is complete shit. He's so lucky to have players that tolerate him.

[@introvertedjo1238]

I’m sorry for you and your family’s loss. I hope you are all doing okay

[@juanfisi]

It bafles me any of the other players could deal with that looser of a DM. Seriously no one speask out for a friend? The entire groups sucks, they are all awfull.

[@Duck-oc2hp]

This channel seems so simple, a crab reading dnd horror stories, but i love it so much lmao. Its calming, interesting, great background noise, amazing not background noise, continuously resparks my passion for dnd, and probably more things i cant think of right now. Good job Mr Crabs 🦀

[@MoldyBones27]

DMs.. stop making DM PCs! Make DM NPCs! You don’t speak! You are mute! You make no decisions for the party!

[@jaffarebellion292]

I run a game set on the ocean. My players have a bunch of NPCs aboard their ship who can fight alongside them if needed, as well as provide a number of other day to day services. They were, however, selected by the players and ultimately answer to the player characters. They're basically glorified henchmen who have the occasional quest hook if it's a slow session. Never in my wildest dreams could I imagine them taking over for the party.

[@MoldyBones27]

@@jaffarebellion292 damn right! Well done, that’s a good system. My players tried to make one of my campaigns into one piece once haha, large ships always remind me of that.

[@shadenox8164]

I mean they should speak, but never for the party.

[@MoldyBones27]

@@shadenox8164 precisely! Yet a mute Wizard is a fun quirk at times

[@OGNoNameNobody]

There were only two possibilities for this DM: 1) He was fudging his rolls to punish the 'plagardin' 2) The even WORSE posibility that he designed all his encounters/monsters to be anti-paladin(This lizard warrior is weilding a +4 Spear of Paladin Smiting, why to you ask?)

[@DarkRaven18599]

How it should have gone. DM: "The OC puts his hand on his sword..." Barbarian: "Bring it fucknuts!"

[@DerpsWithWolves]

I once had a player pull some character art off the internet for what they were wearing when they went to meet a very important npc... And they chose the SAME character as a reference as I had for the npc they were going to meet with, neither of us knowing beforehand. Not quite the same thing, but I took the opportunity and rolled with it, and the npc said "Is this supposed to be some kind of joke?" and it turned into an ice-breaker for RP. It was pretty funny. ...Anyway that NPC was Satan, and they're married now, but that's beside the point.

[@cosmicspacething3474]

So Satan married himself?

[@DerpsWithWolves]

@@cosmicspacething3474 Someone who showed up wearing the same outfit, yes.

[@shadenox8164]

"One of us is going to have to go change." A good running joke could be they have such similar taste this happens a lot.

[@DerpsWithWolves]

@@shadenox8164 That would have also been a perfect response lol

[@robertsampson537]

Did anyone else hear him describe the character and think, "sounds like a character I wouldn't wanna play with?"

[@Darkwintre]

Oh damn this dm wasn't named Ian was he? I swear my last dm was as bad as this except it wasn't because I copied a character of his, but after converting my elven ranger into a cleric I reduced my character's back stoiry to answering a call for aid from her son and he proceeded to crap all ove rmy character killing off said npc and when confronted with the fact a mother wouldn't abandon her child he told me to change my character! I ran the next game and in 15 minutes demonstrated how a true introductory game is run (yes he claimed his game was an introduction which it wasn't as I turned up in at least their second or third session.) Making me reroll saves employing exhaustion rules that had I been more knowledgeably about 5e back then would have meant my character sitting out the rest of that adventure! I didn't know so when we confront the villain of that one shot it turned out to be an orc warchief that I narrowly avoided being killed distracting him from the others in the first round by DODGING. He took over his wife's character who narrowly avoided hitting the party transmuter with a firebolt due to a critical fumble before fumbling again dropping my character. To put it bluntly unless he went with some really appalling dm fiat that was a Total Party Kill had he run that properly because none of the survivors would have survived as long as my character had. I decided to quit that online game early and learned later they revived my character despite there being no way they could have won that fight against 3 orcs and orc warchief. In response to his first game with me my one was set on Exandria establishing its an entirely different world to his and that my character was banished to his world suffering temporary amnesia as a result. Unfortunately his one shots got so bad he got "bored" and decided his campaign was also set on Exandria which it couldn't after that session I called him and after realising I was wasting my time and rather upset as this had been a friend (who clearly was nothing of the sort) quit the group even shutting down facebook and not returning as I was really pissed off at his behaviour. All he had to do was ask as I was trying to shift my campaign off of Exandria because I thought my players wasn't interested. The truth is I suspect they knew of his growing nastiness and used me to distract him from them given he liked to play favourites wasn't hard to udnerstand except they used to be much better roleplayers and now one literally ran away from a roleplaying situation rather than run his character properly. Sorry this video gave me flashbacks from back then almost three years ago now. Back to watching the video now.

[@huskycruxes7232]

I love it when the waves come up and fill up the whole screen. Happens rarely like a dvd logo hitting the corner. But when it does it’s beautiful.

[@thekay72]

Communication is a two way street. The DM may have not been "mature enough to discuss his feelings" with the player, but the player also didn't bring it up even when it started escalating. He tried to explain himself once and then just gave up and kept playing despite the abuse? Damn, that must have been some legendary tier roleplay because I certainly wouldn't have stuck around. He should have talked to the party members to see if they were noticing the same trends and then more consistently spoken to the DM about his concerns. I dunno, if this were an AITAH post I'd vote ESH to varying degrees.

[@MadMalMan]

THIS is the comment I was looking for. Despite everything the player saying the DM did bad being fair and valid. - DM was upset with my character before I played it but I thought screw him - I didn't know what was happening but didn't want to bring it up. The DM sounds very petty and a hard work, but clearly he put together a great campaign for them because they were enjoying it for months, maybe a bit of respect earlier on would have stopped the escalation.

[@velocirex3984]

​@@MadMalManoh so you think faking rolls and also stomping on a players character for no good reason also completely ruined a game for his players being fair and valid this just sounds like a person having a power trip thinking all that matters is his enjoyment

[@MadMalMan]

@velocirex3984 - The first line in my comment was that the player was correct in what they said, the rest of my comment highlighted that they willfully avoided communicating with the DM. Your comment just spoke on my behalf, well done you literally just did what half the stories condemn childish people for.

[@velocirex3984]

@@MadMalMan actually the opposite read your own comment

[@MitchellTF]

I think the big moment for him should, in fact, be "So, let me get this straight. You made an NPC to do my job for me? Okay....bye. Hey players? I' gonna be running a few modules..."

[@boiledelephant]

DM sounds like a 5 year old trapped in a man's body. I honestly blame all the players for putting up with him for such an incredible length of time.

[@ericnunez9968]

Just realized this video is less than an hour old and not 2 years old

[@RedCrusader-ph2vk]

Gave me flashbacks to the lawful stupid paladin that went into a battle knowing beforehand it was unfair and rallied the group to kick the DM out over the unfair encounter

[@_PannieCake_]

I literally stole the characters of Madness Combat, Borderlands, and Skyrim. I put them into my game, changed their races and how they act a bit to make them more appropriate for the setting, and they are some of the favorite characters in my campaign. It's not bad to take from popular media and put them into your own setting. The problems only come from saying they are completely original and not based off a common idea or a piece of media.

[@cosmicspacething3474]

Also it’s interesting to put existing characters into other scenarios they wouldn’t normally be in

[@coolsceegaming6178]

Which madness person did you yoink?

[@etcetera1995]

Ah, the *better* golden paladin is definitely more heroic for *threatening people to go along with him* if they don't divert their path. Like did everyone else hear the part of him putting his hand on his hilt while he spoke?

[@captain_hammer]

Jeez, all that the DM needed to do to prevent his OC from being "stolen" was just to tell the player "your character is a bit too similar to an NPC I'm going to bring in later", and the player could have re-written the character to be themed around silver or bronze instead of gold or something.

[@momogal04]

You have two types of DMs. Ones who railroad the feck out of things and get petty and insert DMPCs to be a-holes. And then you have ones like my main DM. "You want to free Tiamat from the cult and save her? GIVE ME A WEEK AND WE'LL DO THIS, LADS!"

[@Kevinblue035]

If OP wanted to be petty he should have just posted pictures of anime characters that wear golden armor like gilgamesh in the group chat

[@Joshthepikachu2123]

For being some heroic paragon, the DMPC sure doesn't hesitate to threaten them with violence with passive aggressive bullying into the mix

[@EagleScoutBlackBelt586]

The OP shouldn’t feel to bad about getting kicked out, O get the sense the group isn’t going to last much longer with how things were going.

[@Hyraxas]

Most problems that happened at my table was because of me (the baby dm) not putting my foot down enough or not being clear enough. Communication is key. I talked it out with everyone and it went way better than before, and non of them minded my mess ups. They even liked my DM OCs which is my biggest accomplishment :3 (They even asked if they would see them again because they liked them so much hehe)

[@goldknight6995]

No lie, before this video came out I had this EXACT idea for a character in my indie game. still gonna use it because ideas are made to be used and the character is not human, but still weird that it happened lol.

[@Konpekikaminari]

Which one? the narcissistic "hero"?

[@goldknight6995]

@@Konpekikaminari yeah!

[@Konpekikaminari]

@goldknight6995 it has been done so much it has become a trope, and no one can stop you from using those

[@shadenox8164]

Don't even worry about it.

[@josiedavis3792]

You mentioned that the OPs character might be an over accomplished for their level and I don't think that's actually true. Like there's always room for it sure, but contextually speaking the OP mentioned that the fight that caused his original character to die was against a Beholder. Assuming the DM isn't just throwing high level monsters at a low level party, a Beholder is a CR 13 monster, they're still pretty high up there on the list of dangerous enemies. So it makes sense to me that the replacement character, assuming they were the same level as the party, would be someone who had some accomplishments under their belt. It seems to me like the OP didn't really mention the kind of things that the paladin had done personally, just that they were something of a figurehead for the order that they belonged too, like a pretty face to put on posters and stuff to make people want to trust them.

[@haroldflint521]

Why did the DM break the cart wheel if he didn't want the party to solve it?

[@robjsmiles]

5:35 The context is right there. This is a character made to join the existing party, hence starting at a higher level. Reminder that even a handful of levels are usually way above the scope of most normal people too, and they mentioned most people outside of that church might not know the character.

[@Epicfailman666]

im sorry but id very much explode on the guy and call him out at every aspect, legit removing half of the roleplay because your OC wants them to be good is just horrible DMing. Whats that, dont agree with my OC? Threatens you with his sword so you ahve to do it his way, honestly the last part started to feel like he was heavily railroading, was really hoping the party pushed him into the valcano

[@HOLDENPOPE]

What's even worse is it seams like the railroading only happened because the DM didn't like OP. Punishing people for something someone else did is already horrible, but especially when that someone else didn't even do what you say they did, it just becomes even worse.

[@Epicfailman666]

@HOLDENPOPE agreed yea, legit ive dealt with railroading before and i hate it. (This was a pokemon mystery dungeon dnd) Dm gives us a choice to go to the next dungeon to uncover more of the mystery were solving, or stay in stay for a bit and restock our items. We decided to stay and restock only to have the dungeons boss appear in town wrecking havoc, we didn't get to restock and didn't get to visit that dungeon.

[@henryhere]

His character was SO original that I can name another one with the same traits off the top of my head, that being PRINCE ALUCARD 🐎 from the Atastic youtube channel, who is a gold-clad celebrity knight, the only difference from the DMs character being that he's not a holy warrior. It's such a crazy coincidence that all THREE of these extremely unique, 100% original characters all happened to be made!

[@GermanKinsmen]

"And then he's level one" He's a replacement for a character in a seemingly already well-leveled party, so no, he would actually have to be pretty strong and accomplished.

[@CynicalCopycat]

I literally made this exact OC a while ago long before this video dropped, literally what is this DM on about???

[@buckysgirl4945]

This DM reminds me of the first 5e DM I experienced. He was so full of himself that he would send us on more side quests than Skyrim.

[@Crazor2000]

Yeah, like op said, the character the dm had isn't even that orginal. heck most of these tropes you can easily find on tv tropes. It's basically just the "paladin" combined the trope of "Living legend" or "Famed in Story" You can take pretty much any paladin, give them the folk hero background, add some gold coloring and you have essentially made the dm's character. Sure op's character does follow some of these trope, but he also mixes it with the narisism, seems the follow the trope of "The Fighting Narcissist" an character that while combat capable is arrogant to a fault. Tropes aren't bad, and there useful, so don't feel bad about using them, but i find the dm claim of an "you stole my character" kinda weak when it's not that hard to find characters like this.

[@marcruth4531]

Imagine thinking a heroic character would use threat of violence to force their will on their party. Totally an upstanding paragon of virtue... Also, after all those supposed crits, and repeated hits against my character like OP faced, I'd be demanding the DM roll openly to prove he isn't cheating maliciously.

[@caaliber115]

"If the DM can't be mature enough to tell me his problems, then I don't care." If you realized the dm was having an issue with something, why didn't you bring it up immediately? You wanna sit there and act like the DM was the only one having trouble communicating. This whole situation could've been nipped before your character was fully built. I get that your DM is pretty goofy for getting pissed off over nothing, but if you realized he was upset, why didn't you as a friend speak up?

[@memesupremeo1045]

I’ve been going through your stories and stuff while I make my own dnd story, but I wanna say thanks because it’s been a good escape from reality and it helps me cope with something that happened recently so thank you crit crab:)

[@pazz]

Could it be possible that DM introduced his OC as a foil to OP's character? Maybe the DM was expecting them to fight back against his relentless do-gooder-ness. instead of cowering and backing down every time the OC gripped his sword. If this is what the DM planned, targeting and downing the OP in combat so often was no way to do it... and after hearing the end, it seems like it was actually malicious. But, as players, you have agency. If all of your characters were annoyed by the OC in RP, why not work together to find a way to ditch him/get rid of him? Basically find a way in-game to tell your DM "this isn't the type of game we want". Or straight up talk to your DM and say that the OC is spoiling some of the fun? Like he said, they are all adults. I'm just saying, the poor communication was going both ways.

[@doge9455]

It was clearly malicious did you listen to the story

[@pazz]

​@@doge9455Did you read my comment?

[@fyng.1582]

Its kind of wild to me how bad in all TTRPG stories people are at confrontation. "Ok so everyone agrees with me the DM is being a jackass, right?" "Right!" "And he's making it so none of us have fun, right?" "Right!" "So we're gonna confront him, right?!" *general incoherent mumbling and shuffling of character sheets*

[@Michaeljack81sk]

It's bad enough that the other players let DM ruin the roleplay, but the fact that OP let all this happen to him without once calling the DM out on his blatant cheating and targeting boggles my mind. Why would anyone allow themselves to be such a doormat? Is there another side to this? Because If i saw my DM targeting another player you can bet I (and likely the rest of my table) would call them out on it publicly

[@Tulkash01]

Got to suggest that, if this tale is true, the DM probably had an issue with the player predating the paladin situation. After all his fighter was the only character who got killed in the early sessions

[@GiaLuanttv]

When losers get in a position of power.

[@mr.perfectcell1887]

This story depressed me greatly. I've been kicked out of a roleplaying group similar to this and the guy was my best friend at the time.

[@PiccoloNK]

I had a friend tell me he was gonna do a D and D campaign where people can make new classes, within reason of course. I asked him if I could be a reverse druid. I would be a otter that turns into people. Can't open that door? Boom now I'm Greg, and in my expert opinion..... The door seems locked. Your welcome.

[@Senkoau]

Reminds me of a game I played many years ago. We're rushing to respond to a situation and there's a door we have to get through. Party paladin throws his shoulder into and rolls WHAM bounces off the door, picks himself up sets him and charges again with another roll WHAM! scows at the door. My character a low strength wizard asks "Are we sure its locked" and tries the door to find out its unlocked and opens easily as the villain just threw it shut to delay us and kept running.

[@ransomnotes666]

Point of story: dont let people be petty assholes to u

[@katSody]

as a person who listens to a lot of audio book and falls asleep to them your voice is very soothing, this pertain to the story i just wanted to say

[@skiny-vv3yu]

i have made about 50000000000000000000000 OCs

[@zacharyhepp1013]

Rookie

[@gulayalakel4925]

how the hell do you remember all of them? do you just write them in books that rival the entirety of the bible, or just store them in some device?

[@davidalleyn4221]

Amateur. Around my table we call that a good start.

[@Konpekikaminari]

@@gulayalakel4925 depends, some write them into notes or full blown fanfics, some make fanart, some just spend needless amounts of energy remembering them e.g I do all of the above except fanfics

[@skiny-vv3yu]

@@gulayalakel4925 the fun part is that i dont remember them 🤣

[@KT-dp3ss]

Okay but OP was also cringe for wanting his character to be "fawned over" by NPCs

[@andrewhanshaw5646]

I was DMing a campaign that used a giant Tortoise to be a land transport over a massive desert to help people traverse between major cities, and one member had -3 perception so I would have them randomly roll and on a fail would turn around and walk into the giant Tortoise leg or pole or something for laughs but I only did it when I felt like a laugh was needed.