"The Broader View of Training" Interview with an Equine Behavior Consultant

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[@susancinek5803]

Very intelligent and well spoken lady. Thanks for a great interview.

[@grandmawearscombatboots.1084]

I could hear the answers but the questions were very low volume.

[@danielthomas3333]

Reference to a response, I’m totally aware of the the principles of behaviourism, Skinner, Pavlov et al. But to ignore the species specific behaviour characteristics is foolish. I’ve had discussions with clicker trainers who described in great lengths, including videos, how they went through the process of getting the horse to touch a cone etc, and proceeding step by step over several weeks to correct the main problem. The thing was, I (and countless others) could have solved the problem in about 20min, by applying ethological herd hierarchy to the situation, and the fix would have been permanent. After 60yrs around horses and following my father around as well, I have learned that horses respond to assertive leadership. End of story.

[@fburton8]

I fully agree with your point about specific horse behaviour being important. Applying that knowledge enables you to be successful both quicker and more easily. Taking weeks to address a problem that can be fixed in 20 mins is ridiculous, I agree - although some issues may benefit from being patient and "taking the time it takes". That said, I do think 'hierarchy' is overrated. It perfectly possible to get the behaviours you want without emulating a dominant horse. I've seen people achieve results using dominance, but that's in spite of it not because of it. Sometimes the results are good, sometimes they are less than optimal e.g. compliance without active willingness. I've seen people getting into a real mess with it too. You can be firm without being pushy and bullying. For me, good leadership qualities are being clear, consistent, calm and confident.

[@danielthomas3333]

I liked her approach up to the point where she talked about clicker training. That’s when she lost me. When she talks about ethology, I thought she was on the right track. The trouble is she did not mention herd hierarchy. The horse that was aggressive around cod could be transformed into a pussycat in 20 min in a round pen. I think she is a little bit confused about the role of clicker training. It’s about relationships and there’s a way of achieving the desired relationship.

[@fburton8]

There is an alternative view that it's all about behaviours, how to teach horses to do the behaviours you want (and not do the ones you don't) - what's now called "learning theory". In my experience, it's an effective approach/viewpoint.

[@algypsy17]

She describes the difference between negative and positive reinforcement. I don't judge the methods, or decide which one is better. I apply both of them according to the problem, to the horse or the situation. Herd hierarchy is based on negative reinforcement (avoiding pressure), positive reinforcement such as clicker training is learning by reward only. That's all ...

[@fburton8]

@@algypsy17 I would find limiting myself to using only positive reinforcement in training horses an unnecessary and uncomfortable restriction. I personally couldn't work that way. All 'learning theory' options are on the table, including punishment. None are intrinsically 'evil' - it depends on how you use them. Even positive reinforcement can be misused.