Crokinole DRAMA - Mayday vs Tracey Boards

[@spike2439]

Sleeve Kings standard sleeves are the best quality sleeves for the money in my opinion.

[@Buddy_Kryyst]

I've got a Tracey board, it's amazing. Played on a number of cheaper boards previous to the Tracey while you can still have fun on a cheaper board I was amazed at how much better and faster the Tracey boards are. It's like going from a $299 box store bike to a $3000 boutique bike. Night and day. That being said regardless of what board you get, Crokinole is a great game.

[@christopherleary7934]

As a backer of the most recent Mayday crockinole campaign, I will give them credit for really good communication in the Comments and with Updates. What was weird with the campaign, and likely why that image issue exists, is after the campaign launched they got a 2nd manufacturer (a furniture manufacturer) who is going to make “elite” boards with the black or red trough/gutter. Since Mayday haven’t produced that configuration before, it appears either Mayday or the manufacturer used Tracey’s image, which is unacceptable for any reason and made worse with the Photoshop logo removal. For the price I paid, I expect some cutting of corners but their cumulative actions you raised in the video is concerning.

[@maydaygames]

We are working diligently on fulfilling that project Christopher and will be posting another update today. Yes the 2nd factory with a totally different board was definetely rushed but we are trying hard to manage all of it. This image that we erronously put up on our website on a Friday and left with no Tracey logo until early Monday was very poorly handled for sure, but we have actual images of our own boards up there now and it was a mistake on our part. It was pretty incompetent of us to be sure, but it has been 13 years since our 2011 mistakes mentioned in this video and we've produced and delivered over 20,000 crokinole boards since then. We hope you will love your board but welcome any feedback on it when you finally do get your rewards!

[@drg3712]

I'm 100% confidant in my backing of the Mayday elite board. Will see in October of course.

[@gamesmusic2104]

Only my own experience and opinion as boardgame collector: Mayday is on my AVOID-list since I started the hobby. Back then I looked for boardgame sleeves (I was used to it due to MTG trading card, but it was really hard to get any useful sleeves in shops etc.) Then I was super happy when I found FantasyFlight Games sleeves, high price, but super high quality, and they were the first I found, who offer certain sizes (yes there really was a time where it was hard to find boardgame accessories...). Then after a while Mayday started to widen their range to have the same sizes FFG had (at least in the shops I bought boardgame FFG sleeves, Mayday range started to replace the FFG range, while being cheaper). I knew they probably won't have the same thickness and quality, but still bought several sleeve packs to try, without knowing anything about MAYDAY back then (I am from Europe). Then I was super disappointed with the sleeves. Never did I experience before such quality difference between packs from the same company (never with ultra pro for MTG, or Tinmen (Dragonshield) sleeves, or FFG sleeves). Some sleeves were cut with an angle, others ripped immediately apart, some did not fit the cards they were supposed to. They came on my not buy list, and over the years, especially, when FFG sleeves were killed by Asmodee (As I understood they bought many boardgame companies and tried to concentrate their different divisions). Before FFG had the thickest (and best) boardgame sleeves back then. Asmodee, however, did only keep some of their game division if I correctly remember, while all accessory production was given to another company bought by Asmodee, now producing the Gamegenic range.). I then took a look at the new sleeve market, and hey Mayday was not very prominent anymore, instead everyone started to sell Sleeve King, and some new companies and kickstarters were created in the meantime. I read in forums a lot about the different qualities, and was wondering how Sleeve Kings could be SO cheap compared to other companies. Then I found out... this is a rebranding of Mayday, producing in another production location... to cut costs... which I could not believe... . So yeah... MAYDAY and Sleeve King sleeves are not for me.^^' Years later comes the kickstarter with their first Crockinole board. Exactly like the original... but in cheap... so I took a QUICK turn in the other direction.^^

[@maydaygames]

I replied here but it was deleted? Why would Room & Board delete my comments?

[@lawells3]

Mayday also makes sleeves. I bought some, but I had an issue with the quality on two packs. My buddy told me to give Sleeve Kings a try, and they have worked out great. I recently found out that the owner of Sleeve Kings is a part owner of Mayday, the aformentioned Seth, but the Sleeve Kings sleeves are manufactured with a separate process in a separate facility. BGG has a forum post from 2021 regarding this - Dear Mayday / Sleeve Kings / Swan Panasia

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

@@lawells3 yeah I like the part of that thread where someone was like, oh yeah he made Sleeve Kings because he got a divorce and didn't want his wife to have half of the money haha

[@maydaygames]

@@RoomandBoardReviews Why are you deleting my comments?

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

@@maydaygames I am not deleting your comments WHATsoever. If you add links in them KZbin deletes them, or if you use inappropriate language they are also deleted. If there is an instance of comment deletion that does not fall into that category, please take a screenshot and send it to me. I am happy to post it myself and pin it. To me that is one of the most bold accusations against me you can do, and I can assure you my integrity would not allow me to do so unless I am deleting harmful speech.

[@johnfavaro8008]

This is wild and I can't figure out why an established company would do something this shady. Like PR should have jumped on this immediately rather than make the situation worse by covering it up.

[@maydaygames]

You are exactly right! Why would we do it on purpose? I mean, we just raised over $748 k on our kickstarter with more than 5700 backers right? We have orders coming out our ears already and would be complete idiots to do something that shady on purpose. The simple (and correct) answer is that we wouldn't. We were STUPID and didn't catch this error that somehow happened between the graphic designer and Saturday Aug 10 when Tracey boards contacted us. We "scrubbed" the image of the board to remove their logo but left the photo up until Monday morning early, mostly because it was the weekend and I wasn't thinking clearly due to my wife being in the ER for most of Sunday. Stupid mistake for sure but not intentional at all. There would be zero reason to try to use another company's image intentionally as our own knowing full well it would be terrible for PR and frankly we don't need the sales.

[@kennethfelder1345]

I decided to get a board a couple of years ago. I wasn't a player so I figured a $100 board would be good enough for a beginner. Well, the board arrived in a very damaged box and the board within was equally damaged, revealing the shoddy material it was made of. I think it was compressed cardboard. Anyway, I returned that one and spent $400+ for a Tracey/Brown Castle Crokinole Board and was very pleased with it.

[@SlovoSanctum]

I think the stance you took at the end is the right one, and had I known about all of this I wouldn't have backed their recent Kickstarter -- when I did a search on them, I didn't look through the wayback machine or anything and just saw generally positive reviews as a mid-tier board. As what will be a new player when mine arrives, I didn't want to go too expensive on my first board; now I'm just hoping it's a good product. That should be a concern if backing a newer company or person with less than a handful of previous products, not a company that has multiple product lines and have been doing this for over a decade...

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

@@SlovoSanctum yeah I agree it's wild to see this behaviour from an established company

[@Triston_Yocom]

I appreciate the video. Helps in my decision to just go for a Tracey board because I don’t want to deal with the headache of getting a bad product from a different company.

[@gurnblanston2848]

I backed their most recent KS campaign, and upgraded to one of the "Elite" boards they offered. Never bought anything from them before, and had no idea of their history. Now I'm nervous and hoping I didn't make a huge mistake.

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

@@gurnblanston2848 I'm sure you'll get a decent product, I'll keep my fingers crossed! But definitely going to be banging this drum in the future. People seem to like sleeve kings from this past Monday's episode of crowdfunding countdown but makes me definitely think twice about supporting anything they do. I might have to keep looking into them because that thread is wild

[@RopeBunny.]

I backed one of their board campaigns years ago. It arrived without issue. I would not buy anything from their company again though. Fyi, sleeve kings is the same company.

[@kentsang6405]

I backed last year’s campaign Mayday board and it was terrible. The side was chipped, fine. But the pegs in the middle were unevenly spaced so it’s literally unfair for one particular side.

[@Wonderflonium]

A friend of mine backed the Mayday crokinole board Kickstarter a few years ago. The board arrived with some small damage on the playing surface. Apparently, Mayday customer support told my friend to try and DIY a solution, rather than offering to replace the board with one that did not have a damaged playing surface. Womp womp.

[@Ian-R-Wilz]

Just crazy that they literally had people send their crappy board to other people who were sending their crappy boards to yet other people.

[@JerzyMuller]

They just finished a KS that sold another 5,7k boards, I backed it as it was essentially the only way to get the board here in Poland. We'll see in October how the quality ends up :D

[@SlovoSanctum]

I'm in the same boat; I'm gonna bookmark this video so I can come back and leave a comment as to my feelings of the board when it gets here. Did you upgrade to the "elite"?

[@JerzyMuller]

No, I decided to stick with what they did before which had pretty decent reviews.

[@beornthebear9023]

Sooooo I backed one of their elite boards in the recent kickstarter. And I remember thinking this looks almost like a Tracy board this is awesome. Turns out I’m an idiot and it literally was a picture of a Tracy board. Oh well it should arrive in not too long and we will see what the quality is like

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

@@beornthebear9023 ugh oh nooo

[@beornthebear9023]

@@RoomandBoardReviews you know someday I might learn that if it looks too good to be true it probably is. But so far that lesson continues to escape me. The elite Mayday boards are at least on track to deliver soon so it was a fast Kickstarter at least. So by the end of the year I’ll know how hard to kick myself

[@ebbit3469]

@@beornthebear9023 I came here to say I did the same thing... This makes me sad haha

[@maydaygames]

Just to be clear, all of the photos and videos on the Kickstarter are 100% Mayday boards. You can check the videos and see them being made in a Chinese factory and not in Canada. Please check our latest update (Aug 20, 2024) for more details. Please do come back here and report how you like your board and if it really was too good to be true or how you like the ELITE board you get. We stand behind our products and we hope you'll be very pleasantly suprised!

[@JonTripp115]

Wowww, that pretty shady. I did get a Mayday board a couple of Kickstarters ago; I figured $100 was a decent price for a decent board, and that's exactly what I got. Happily I didn't have any of the quality/service concerns some others have had. I've also liked Sleeve Kings as far as I've used them - better than the few packs of Mayday sleeves I've had. But yeah, that photo lift alone would be enough to sink some companies.

[@Manny-M]

You totally get what you pay for in a Mayday board... and for an entry level board at a related price, it was fine... but WORD OF WARNING Dont use the included clips to hang it on the wall. It cannot hold the weight of the board over time and it will break through the cheap MDF it's made of. My board also came with some chips on the veneer and they wouldnt replace it. Since bought a Hilinski board and it's brilliant

[@anita4305]

in Europe, Woodestic from Hungary make really beautiful quality boards - pretty expensive though. I deserve the best though so

[@protoman504]

I backed maydays new premium board if its hot garbage its a good thing it should be delivering in oct. so i can put a charge back on my card if they dont make it right.

[@gowest7797]

I canceled my sleeve kings pledge before it closed because of this absolute garbage of situation. I actually like mayday sleeves a lot but I will no longer support the company due to the history of issues and the clear case being made that not much has changed.

[@ScytheNoire]

I remember Mayday having disastrous problems in the past, so I've avoided giving them my money.

[@scottarmstrong8178]

I have a mayday board and it's fine. Doesn't excuse stealing someone else's product and claiming it's yours. When I can afford an upgrade I hope to be able to afford a Tracy board.

[@Tjorriemorrie]

0:01 It cannot be as bad as your unreadable green font

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

@@Tjorriemorrie it's worse!

[@shocknawe]

What happened with CMON’s time machine?

[@thecuriousboardgamer]

I backed one of their boards years ago. It was decidedly mediocre. Unfortunately, it was a dumb choice as I *really* like nice things. Sold it after a couple years. Should have just saved for a high quality board.

[@legendodinson7082]

Bummed to hear about this. I actually backed their recent kickstarter and even upgraded.

[@maydaygames]

Please come back here and report on how you like your board once you get it. We stand behind our products and hope you will be pleasantly suprised.

[@outscale_monarch4300]

Almost backed one as the wood and and color scheme looked really nice but after seeing the new design, very happy that I didn’t!

[@tymoore253]

I’ve got a Mayday board and it’s good quality for the price, but that’s a lot of shady business lol. If I ever need a new board I think I’ll be getting a nicer board like a Tracey

[@jamesbrazeal3847]

Some day I dream of getting a Tracy board.

[@ChadHensley]

Every time Mayday Games does a Kickstarter for crokinole boards I seriously consider backing it. Never took the time to research but since Mayday has been around so long and had so many Kickstarters for these boards, I just assumed everything was on the up and up. During the most recent campaign I decided to try to back the next one if I have the funds. Because of your time spent researching that encouraged you to make this video I will avoid supporting them. Thanks for your time and effort!

[@maydaygames]

Just to be clear, the 2024 campaign and late-backer pledge closed long before this video was posted so there was never an opportunity for you to back it this year unfortunately. We only do a campaign at such a huge discount about once a year or even every other year, so you will have time to hear from all our current backers about how they liked their boards before you decide on any 2025 or maybe 2026 campaign.

[@mylor1066]

I got a Mayday in 2020. Reasonable quality, shipped to UK ok. Got what I pay for. Deffo want a Tracey board now though.

[@maydaygames]

Thanks for adding your voice to this conversation. Yes, lots of our customers go on to buy a Tracey or other higher end board. I don't know what they cost in the UK but it is $350 USD to get a board here in the US from Tracey.

[@MossyRiverRock]

So your most recent check on their quality is from 2011? I see and understand the photo shopping scandalous drama but you give no example of their quality or lack there of beyond the threads from 2011? Some people, particularly if outside of Canada don't want to pay $300 plus, plus shipping to outside of Canada when they could pay around $140 which is what I just did on their most recent KS. It's a starter board for me, I've loved seeing Crokinole via Loading Ready Runs community and have wanted to try it but not buy a crappy plastic one. From what searching I did since you don't seem to care to is that their QC issues have been addressed as the KS campaigns have gone on. Now the Elite ones we don't necessarily know the QC of since it's a new factory I guess. But from what I can see people have gotten their standard boards in recent KS and been satisfied.

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

@@MossyRiverRock that's not the point, the point is this is a company that has been steeped in bad faith actions and you can trace that history throughout. That's why the stories are relevant to the conversation, not that they had bad boards back then, but how they have handled themselves and currently handled themselves.

[@Carcharothification]

I do have a board from Mayday and I can say it was worth the price. I am also just a casual player who can't really justify $300+ on a premium board. Their card sleeves I have always been happy with. As for the image, I have seen that happen where I work, snatch a photo from another site and a bit of Photoshop work later it "good enought for now".

[@trooper6762]

“Sometimes people complain because they like complaining” Pot, meet kettle. 🙄

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

I do not believe this is the case in the slightest. I decided to share this story because I don't believe stealing someone's intellectual property is a reason to roll your eyes. Worse, I don't believe misleading and false advertising is a practice that we should endorse. To top it off, I've been inundated with stories of people coming forward telling me more bad practices from this company and their CEO that makes me confident that this isn't a one off. I am no longer interested in supporting this company or their subsidiaries because I don't believe in supporting bad actors in this industry, which all evidence seems to be pointing at this, so much so that I might be forced to make an additional video with all the knowledge I've gathered. I use my platform to make sure people don't get taken advantage of by companies, hence why I decided to share. To roll your eyes without adding to the conversation is derivative and unintelligent, and I would assume and hope it would be beneath you. Luckily, since I exist on the internet, I am well versed in such obvious rhetorical tactics as someone trying to derail a conversation with minimal effort, and that's not something you're going to get away with here.

[@kennethfharkin]

In June of 2019 when the SUSD crokinole video took the world by storm I jumped in as a late backer to get a board from Mayday which came soon afterwards. I had a ton of fun with it and my buddy immediately went and orderred a Muzzies board. I then ordered a WoodenYouKnow with a custom image for my office and got a Tracey for my house. My daughter took the Mayday to her apartment for her and her friends. The Mayday served its purpose. It was an economical entry for a middling performing board and for many that is enough. You get what you pay for and it fills a niche. Hearing they were making a higher end board was interesting but I don't really see the point. At the $200 - $300 range (USD) you can get Brown Castle, WoodenYouKnow, and into the basic Tracey boards. The idea that they would steal a Tracey image then have such poor responses is unacceptable.

[@maydaygames]

That is mostly because we didn't intentionally use their images or try to steal their customers, or anything else along those lines. If you want our side of the story it is quite simple, this was a simple and aggregious error on our part due to ineptitude and not some nepharious effort to steal Tracey's brand. We just finished a $748k kickstarter with more then 5,700 backers and are making more than 8 containers of Crokinole just to fill the demand we already have, why would we do something that stupid on purpose? We are going to be up to our eyeballs in orders to fill for the rest of the year and of course know that something like that would be totally stupid of us. Never ascribe to malice what can be attributed to stupidity. We've sold over 20,000 crokinole boards and had hundreds of images of them on our website in the past 12+ years, is it impossible that we just screwed up and had the wrong picture up there last weekend for 3 days and it was promptly taken down Monday morning?

[@kennethfharkin]

@@maydaygames True, malice isn’t needed when incompetence will suffice. I also do not believe you intended to tell people you are selling Tracey boards. You grabbed an image and used it as a representative stand in. That said you were alerted to the error and your initial response was NOT to apologize and pull the image. Your initial response was to photo shop the logo/name off the board and leave the image up. That is taking an accident and turning it into an intentional act. I started with a Mayday and it is with my daughter now. I’ve always stated there was a place in the market for an inexpensive mass produced board to get people into the game at a lower price point. For years I have stated Mayday is a good solution for that. I can forgive the initial error. Proceeding to photo shop the logo away and keep the Tracey board is something else.