Crossfire Plasma Table Cable Management | Swapping the Axes

[@m4ximusprim3]

So i just bought a crossfire and found this video (3 years later lol). Wanted to say thanks for making the STL's available on thingiverse- going to print them right now and finally clean up my torch cable. You're the man!

[@jlchapman4]

Looking forward to your Fusion 360 bracket video!

[@tonyurquhart8278]

Nice work James. "I'll find something else to break or fix, or build or destroy"... Haha! I like your optimism! :)

[@outsidescrewball]

Enjoyed….nice management/repair…certainly envy your fusion skills

[@benzam6218]

Dang it! I found your channel from your F360 videos......ended up watching all of these videos too. Now I just bought a plasma table. They owe you a commission! :)

[@osumailguy]

You doing all that while I’m breaking out in a nervous sweat over changing a ceiling fan pull-chain switch! 🤯

[@Ddabig40mac]

Nice use of the monitor for mirror there at the end. I thought it was a nice touch in an otherwise talking hands segment.

[@robbystokoe5161]

I recently rewired my desk using wire duct; I was inspired by your use of it in the electronic leadscrew enclosure.

[@dcviper985]

I was just thinking about doing the same thing

[@ocAToccd]

Nice job! For the 'new X' floating cable, you could get some 'spiral tubing'... It is usually used to gather cables together but it also serves as a stiffener...

[@Clough42]

Yeah...I'm not sure if it's needed. The cable is soft, and it's well-supported at both ends now, so it should just flex along without trouble. I'll keep an eye on it.

[@michaeldevlin5101]

Great stuff. I'm looking forward to seeing how you designed that bracket.

[@samvoelkel2046]

I like the 3d printed cable strain reliefs. When possible, I prefer to have screw heads recessed into the 3d print to minimize snagging opportunities. Very excellent finishing touches on this project.

[@Clough42]

The heads are super close to the edge of the part, so the counterbores would be open on the sides. Still possible.

[@tonyray91]

Really looking forward to the design of the plasma cable bracket, I have learned so much from your Fusion 360 vids.

[@jhawker2895]

Nicely done .... Another fun and informative video... Thanks for sharing ... Stay Safe

[@mith5168]

The camera work was clean and sophisticated- worth the effort James, to tell the story. Nice.

[@AmateurRedneckWorkshop]

Great video. I use the same orientation as you now do. I think I am going to try to find some sheet metal cutting project so I can run my torch. I learned about using borax in the water too late and now my water bed is rusty.

[@Clough42]

I used borax, and everything rusted anyway.

[@AmateurRedneckWorkshop]

@@Clough42 bummer bad advice from the internet who could imagine.

[@matspatpc]

Nice work (as usual). I always find myself finding new projects before the previous one is finished. Latest thing I managed to do was to find out that 3mm (1/8" or so) sheet of steel [or other materials] fits UNDER the fence at the back of my chop-saw. Which is rather annoying, and it's such a tight fit that it actually bent the fence - but also pushed my material under it. So I'm now paused on the OTHER project to make a new fence for the saw, from some slightly sturdier piece of aluminium [and having less gap under the fence, so thin material doesn't go under it!]

[@Clough42]

Yup. Project inception is a real thing.

[@TrippLilley]

@@Clough42 yak shaving.

[@RyanTehPyro]

Had a similar issue on a project and I just ended up (neatly) shaving off the brim of the power cable and ran it first - then snuck the rest through.

[@RRINTHESHOP]

Nice setup James.

[@chrismolloy131]

Tie wrap the cables to the post. Done!

[@Clough42]

Lots of people do things this way. Personally, I don't like the look, and find it frustrating when it comes time to make changes later. Changing one wire that runs the length of a bundle requires cutting off all the zip ties and re-doing everything.

[@19672701]

Cool sourcing the wire managment

[@robarmbruster6346]

Cool...you may get some signal interference bundling the torch and motor wires together.

[@Clough42]

That's why they aren't bundled together.

[@nadam35]

man that zip tie sound, tingly.

[@AndreasBested]

Looks good 😊 Is there any end stops for the axis? In that case I guess they have to be changed to the new corresponding axis

[@Clough42]

Nope. No end stops.

[@seanwolfe9321]

Nice work, and while we’re on unfinished projects….what about stashing the lead screw motor on the G0602?

[@somebodyelse6673]

A considerable number of commercial Laser cutting centers screw up matching the axis orientation on the operator display to the actual axes. The displays typically use a view from the long side of the machine, but the operator display is on the short side where the doors for access are. So, everything is rotated 90 degrees. Less than ideal when you're on your 5th 12 hour day that week, and one of the nest files to run is a square aspect ratio. Not an issue until it happens there is a grain restriction. Don't ask me how I know.

[@trialnterror]

I have centroid cnc and to reverse axis it’s a simple flip of a switch!

[@Clough42]

That's a general-purpose CNC controller, so I would expect that.

[@bbrand6755]

Designing and 3D printing a new torch with the lead going straight up would also be a nice project :-) But it might of course be that it would get too hot.

[@Clough42]

The real issue would be the copper tubing inside the torch, and whether it could be straightened.

[@Thudmoto]

+1 on the decision to stay on the shot with your face in reflection on the screen narrating. Very Avant guard' I enjoy every video. Thanks for making the effort.

[@DougsMessyGarage]

I'm drooling over the Crossfire CNC tables. What is your take on the standard Crossfire vs the larger Pro model?

[@Clough42]

I got the small one because I have limited space. That's my only real opinion about them.

[@jimhunt5259]

Awesome stuff, what are you building with table. Are you going to market some parts/stuff.

[@Clough42]

I know myself pretty well, and it seems most likely I'll use it to build more tools. :)

[@lwilton]

I was a little surprised you reached for connectors and wire to reverse the axes rather than some config settings in the control program. I guess there might not be any in a packaged solution. The only drawback I see is that you now have the plasma gun semi-permanently attached to the table, and have to cut zip ties to use it free-standing. I think I might have used a Velcro wire wrap instead to do the bracket attachment. I think you can get them in the hardware store these days. They became incredibly common in the theater for cable management a couple decades ago.

[@Clough42]

Good ideas. You are correct: there are no settings in the packaged software.

[@wouterw.schalkoort1988]

Even not the maximum travel for each axis?

[@Clough42]

@@wouterw.schalkoort1988 I really don't know how to say it any more clearly.

[@timkramer2854]

@@Clough42 I wilton has a good point on the cable being attached to the motor. When the consumables go on mine, I stop the machine, pull the red torch holder off the machine entirely, fix the consumable, and re-mount. It might be cool to make this a magnet 3d printed mount so you can easily take it off and put it back on without having to re-home the machine.

[@paulypaulypauly8011]

Is there potential for some parts to now print ‘upside down’ with the reversal of the stepper? Ie, with the dross on the up side? Oh also, while I’m here - really looking forward to you revisiting the ELS and making V2.0 - I’m really enjoying my lathe now ;-)

[@Clough42]

No. The parts will cut the same. If you rotate the coordinate system 90 degrees, one axis always has to be reversed. You are, however, the first person to recognize that even if the parts were reversed, they would just have the dross on the other side.

[@Runoratsu]

For the stepper cable mount-wouldn‘t it be preferential to put some venting holes/slots in the plate? I don‘t know about this application, but in my 3D printers, the steppers always end up getting pretty warm, and can do with as much ventilation as possible, if not even a small, slow moving fan.

[@Clough42]

I haven't noticed the motors running warm.

[@Runoratsu]

@@Clough42 probably a runtime thing, then-I suppose you seldomly plasma cut for 6-12 hours on end… 😅

[@RonParker]

If you're looking for projects, I'd love to see you add a Z-axis scale to your lathe and use that to upgrade the ELS so you can replace the threading dial with a "start the thread when it comes around" pushbutton that would work for either inch or metric threads (or tie into the existing scale somehow if you already have a DRO; I can't remember if you do.)

[@Clough42]

Sounds like what you really want is a CNC conversion.

[@RonParker]

@@Clough42 Not really. My lathe doesn't have a separate drive mechanism for the power cross slide, so full CNC would be a huge project for me, and I suspect for others as well. I just find the full-manual method of cutting metric threads with an imperial leadscrew or vice-versa to be cumbersome and error-prone, and it seems to me that the only thing the ELS needs to eliminate the need for the threading dial (or, in the mixed system case, the nonexistent threading dial) is an idea of the carriage position. It would also let you set a stop for power-feed and threading operations, but it falls far short of full CNC.

[@mkegadgets4380]

Another way of wire management on your monitor, use a tube that fits over the square tube that holds the monitor up. It could be round tube square tube rectangle, even PVC and then you could run your wires inside of it, it would give you a cleaner look easier to clean and less likely to get a spark on it.

[@Clough42]

Also sounds like a lot more work. And unless the tube is very large, it would require disassembling the monitor mount and pulling it out of the leg to get the cable ends through it.

[@mkegadgets4380]

@@Clough42 Yeah but what would look better? Which will protect the cables better?

[@ericsandberg3167]

Really nice, elegant cable routing brackets...should make for a great F360 vid. Also a great tip on bipolar steppers on how to change the direction.

[@paulmace7910]

Nice work.

[@bigmuz_pilot]

Love your energy James, you’re unbelievable. Thank you.

[@quadmasta]

@Clough42 what are your thoughts on your squat bar? Do you have shoulder problems when using a regular barbell? Did switching help?

[@Clough42]

I'm primarily using an Ohio Power Bar in a low-bar position, since that's what will be used at USAPL meets. I also have a safety squat bar that I use for accessory work. It moves the weight forward to somewhere between a high bar and front squat, so it works the muscles differently and adds variety and a little less specificity. I had some stiffness and discomfort in my left shoulder for a few weeks, but I did some stretching with a resistance band before squatting and limited it to two days a week for a little while, and that has resolved completely.

[@dcviper985]

I'm curious about why drag chain wouldn't have worked. Because it would need a gutter to ride in?

[@Clough42]

You could probably make it work if you lengthened the cable. For the moving axis on the arm, a chain large enough to carry the torch cable looked comical in relation to the lightweight arm.

[@GrabouwAl]

Some nice solutions there. Just one question, what is the heat tolerance of the 3D printed parts considering that the stepper motors can easily operate at up to 80deg C in normal use?

[@Clough42]

This particular filament starts to move around 80C. Though the motors on this table don't run anywhere even close to that. At least not in my shop.

[@hosamkyali9423]

Always enjoy your videos. Also brilliant way to think how to manage your cable,but l hope you don't use zip ties on the torch housing , cause you could reduce air needed the torch to work properly just hint not judge anything try use some PVC on that one l suppose will handle the pressure also keep it clean just suggestion also your way not so bad but in long term could make maybe some issue on torch air pressure at the parts specially at thick plates

[@Clough42]

It's only a 30A plasma cutter, so I doubt the air will be an issue.

[@brianwalker1509]

What kind of computer and monitor are you using. I like the set up you have. No laptop.

[@Clough42]

In the video description.

[@fuzzy1dk]

no homing switches on the plasma?

[@Clough42]

Nope

[@fuzzy1dk]

@@Clough42 ah ok, I was waiting for you to have a surprise when trying to home with the axes changed ;)

[@MarkWarbington]

I worked for a software company that had a comb binder for creating product manuals and such. There was a box of huge combs that could bind hundreds of pages, far more than we would ever need to bind. I repurposed them by using double-sided foam tape to attach them under the tables in our computer lab (you could also use hotmelt glue). It got the cables up off the floor and was super inexpensive for an application where the cables would ultimately be out of sight anyway.

[@somebodyelse6673]

I've had to deal with far too many cable tie pads 'secured' with double sided tape, where the weight of the cabling just pulled them off over time. I don't trust tape adhesives to not turn into goo (electrical tape) or powder (duct tape). For my own use, I'll do the work for a screw or bolt to hold things fighting gravity.

[@asdagu]

I love you videos, great job on all the mods. Just out of curiosity what is the over all height and width and length of the table? If I am not mistaken you purchased the 33" upgrade. I am looking to purchase one myself but I am very space limited.

[@Clough42]

I bought the extended Y (now X) axis version. The only difference is that the rail and motor stick out further on one end, and I can easily tuck this in behind something when storing the table.

[@asdagu]

@@Clough42 Awesome thank you so much!

[@twobob]

Break Fix Build Destroy. A mantra for the new age

[@Runoratsu]

It‘s the circle of (home shop) life. 🎶

[@BrianEltherington]

Are the holes in the motors for cooling?

[@Clough42]

No, they're just drilled and tapped all the way through the plate for screws on the other side.

[@chrisarmstrong8198]

Since the table has no limit switches, is the canned software OK with swapping the (unequal length) X- and Y-axes ? Will it try to overrun one and not reach the end of the other now ? Or are the soft limits adjustable enough to compensate ?

[@Clough42]

There are neither limit switches, nor soft limits. It's a very simple system.

[@bernardpiercy635]

James, Did you consider user a power trak for the cables on the moveable axies such as : Hubbell Raceways, CableTrak Series Item# HCT252341 ?

[@Clough42]

Yes. I ordered a couple. The stock x motor cable is too short and permanently attached to the motor, so that would be kind of a pain, and one large enough to handle the torch lead without issue adds a lot of load to the axis as it moves. I decided it wasn't worth it.

[@GenericAnimeBoy]

So, maybe dumb question, but when you swapped the motor connections and directions around you *did* correct the limit switches as well, right? Would hate for the machine to crash itself because of that.

[@Clough42]

The machine has no limit switches.

[@IceCreams62]

No way to change the direction of the motor with the software ?

[@Tupeutla]

then also the limit switches ... the crash will be for sure solved by them.

[@JustinDavidow]

This is what I was going to comment as well, any good CNC software can invert the DIR output trivially in software.

[@Clough42]

This table has no limit switches.

[@Clough42]

Honestly didn't look. It's canned software specific to the table, with no setup required.

[@Tupeutla]

@@Clough42 new project ? ;) I added limit switches on my Sherline mill ( i am playin in sand box and don't want to leave it ) , > some holes to drill, some tap to make, then microswitches and screws ... about half day . but If the software manage them on your machine

[@nggdsb]

You NEED strain relief for those cables! Possibly a cable chain?

[@Clough42]

For which cables?

[@Mr_Wh1]

When you reversed to rotation direction on axis without telling the software, wouldn't that result in mirrored parts? I understand it's a 2D part, but still...

[@Clough42]

Nope. Because I also rotated the coordinate system 90 degrees by swapping the motors. If I hadn't reversed the direction of one motor, it would have reversed the parts.

[@Mr_Wh1]

@@Clough42 You are right. After switching the axis wires it was going the wrong way, which was the whole point of changing the phases. I don't know why I suddenly got the idea of it being a mirror image of the part.

[@troyam6607]

are you having the same audio issues that Adam Booth is having with the rode Mic/go pro? same defects in audio as him

[@Clough42]

Say more about that. What defects?

[@19672701]

Are you going to get a machine torch,or are you good with what came with the plasma? I'm going to purchase this same table,just your thoughts. Maybe keep that torch if you need to use the plasma conventionally.

[@Clough42]

The plasma was a separate purchase. Didn't come with the table.

[@19672701]

@@Clough42 OK,I didn't know if you had plans to change it in the future,or if you were OK with it.

[@trialnterror]

I’m currently trying to get my table cutting correctly

[@Clough42]

Struggling?

[@damianzanolli1845]

Don' forget to re -label your cables after you're done and add documentation somewhere, maybe inside the cover ?

[@mrtnsnp]

Not just the cables, but also new labels next to the ports on the driver box.

[@damianzanolli1845]

@@mrtnsnp My bad Mr. Sneep I should've remembered those as well.

[@x_ph1l]

Wait a second. So this table doesn't have homing switches? I see why they're so cheap (not that it's bad or anything).

[@JonathanRockway]

Not sure what motor driver it's using, but newer ones can detect the current spike of a crash and they use that for homing. The Prusa i3 MK3S 3D printer does this, for example. I don't think you'd want to do this on your industrial CNC machine, but it seems appropriate for the speeds and feeds and moving mass of something like a 3D printer and MAYBE a plasma cutter.

[@Clough42]

Yeah, not really needed. The moving mass is small, and crashes don't really damage anything. The only time I've even crashed the machine was just by being dumb with the hand controls.

[@x_ph1l]

@@Clough42 homing switches give a convinience of soft limits, so that you can never crash the machine. I hate to crash my machine (1.5x3 m table, but not too fast). But, yeah, for something small and light not critical at all. Return to home function also not really needed for such small table.

[@azenginerd9498]

Unfinished project.... like your drillpress mod?

[@Clough42]

Exactly.

[@David_Best]

You are not finished until you remake that monitor cover in solid black, and retire that fugly brown thing to a trash can liner application. 😂😂😂

[@Sam_596]

Nice

[@eugenecarkoski4591]

I hope you wrote all that down

[@theromihs]

Congrats on finishing a project! I have yet to do that (I've just started putting my workshop together, so all of it is still WIP). Regarding swapping your axes around, did you confirm that the machine still correctly moves to the home positions (when homing it) on the axes?

[@Clough42]

This machine has no limit switches or homing function. You set your zero point, load your GCODE and go.

[@joep041188]

Ivan Miranda is wrong, Wiring is NOT super boring!

[@Tupeutla]

it's called Panduit (C)

[@Clough42]

Panduit is a specific brand.

[@crabmansteve6844]

It is absolutely not Panduit. Panduit is A) a specific brand and B) a different product entirely.

[@Tupeutla]

@@Clough42 precisely ! and patented. but it's a good start to look for .

[@Tupeutla]

@@crabmansteve6844 wow calm down , look at my (c) in my comment .... and it's called Panduit by everyone . you have also scott towells if you want ...

[@robthieszen7558]

All too often 80% complete is 100% finished…