Crossover Listening and Evaluation Test | Dayton Audio Project

[@Vincent-lw2sp]

I think it sounds definitely better with the inductor. Not even a case of subtleties, it was a big difference. I heard it the most in the high frequency dynamics.

[@gerhardwestphalen]

I could definitely hear a difference. With it, it's a little more detailed. Without it, the soundstage is a little farther back and relaxed. I think either could work. Personally, I'd probably go with it for a more analytical sound.

[@IliyaOsnovikov]

To my ears tracks with inductor in place do sound somewhat fuller and more lifelike, but without it somewhat thinner and kind of artificial (especially a piano).

[@goodgoat3096]

I agree and my 71 year old years spent 15 months on an M60 battle tank. For me anything above 12 khz is a mystery but the lack of fullness without the inductor was most apparent on the piano.

[@RoaroftheTiger]

@@goodgoat3096 I agree completely agree with your assessment. Funny enough, I too, am familiar with that 53 tons of homogenious armor steel; the M60 tank ! Though I only experienced the firing of the 105 mm cannon, once. So, my hearing was spared. It all "happened " to me at Ft. Hood , Texas. After a Young Sargent , a veteran of the 25th Infantry in Vietnam , drowned in a M-60, during a Maneuver (a war game). A Tank, I was suppose to be in. But an accident in the Motor Pool prior to that; sent me to the Infirmary. There's much more, to the story. For life in 'A Company', of 2/66th Battalion - the 2nd Armor Division ("Hell on Wheels") was so Bad. That I actually Volunteered for Duty in ''Nam. You see, ONLY transfer requests (a '1049') for Vietnam, were being accepted. There was No other way out of that madness. At the time, Vietnam seemed to be a rational choice. Guess it was. As I'm still here. Regardless, Cheers !

[@gerrymartan6168]

This totally floored me. I’m 68 and have been in this hobby for 47 years. I can’t hear over 10k but I can actually hear this difference on my iPad. Without the inductor I would clearly get listening fatigue with this speaker. Eat that you “snake oil” spouting trolls on these audio forums.

[@krollpeter]

Yea, this one. Especially with the piano piece to me that is quite audible actually.

[@marascott6570]

Yes, I could hear difference, and I think you made the right choice. Be in doctor seems to make it feel more closed off like kind of a hole in the mid range but just more artificial with less jabs. What I have learned is to listen for the background sounds or the reverberate sounds that go along with the primary souse, such as the drown echoing in the room, or the artificial reverb at it

[@ichigobankai2343]

I could clearly hear the difference. With the inductor the sound is smoother/tighter/accurate blends better with a more fuller coherent sound and tone. Without the inductor it sounds a tad bit tinny/skinnier with less control and a more diffused type of sound which in turn can make it sound a tad bit brighter. Without a roll off it can sound a little hot and bright. The first song with the inductor it was more fuller/flat sounding, without the inductor it sounded a tad bit less coherent with brighter highs. Second song with the inductor the horns sounded fuller with more accuracy and detail, while without the inductor the horn instruments were not as full with less detail. Third song piano with the inductor once again sounded smoother with better tone due to the roll off so it sounds warmer while without the conductor it sounded a tad bit brighter/sharper. Better is subjective as its all based on personal preference, for example if one likes the brighter highs then one would prefer it without the inductor but those brighter highs can also cause listening fatigue when listening to music for prolonged periods of time. I prefer it with the inductor for smoother fuller better blended sound that wont cause much listening fatigue.

[@Justwantahover]

I reckon it sounded better with the inductor but it's hard to say, with it the lower med sounded a little muddled but overall sound was better in tone (I reckon).

[@hugothebear]

I thought it sounded a little brighter without the inductor - it would be interesting to see the effect on different types of sound, the brightness might be preferred to give sparkle to some percussive sounds. But, might be too sibilant in vocal sounds, but useful for monitoring when you want to hear any faults

[@caseywhite8969]

I could only hear a difference on the piano track. The other tracks I didn't notice anything. But the piano track actually sounded way different without the inductor... but... I dont really know which sounded better I just noticed a change

[@OscarHernandez-ym4hx]

This has been the most amazing video on speaker sounds.

[@stevefick3919]

I've just read the a lot of the comments below, and I believe, as in art: "It's in the eye (or ear in this case) of the beholder". I thought the inductor sounded a bit fuller to me. Make it sound good to YOU. You're the person listening to them. Wish I had the knowledge to create my own crossovers. I'm a mechanical tech. I'm good at building speakers, not so good at the electronics for them. It's trial and error for me!

[@beckyhamilos3384]

Well, great video....I have a 3 way speaker design with 2 1/4 in port. 12 in woofer 8 in mid and tweeter. Old speakers were from RadioShack when my dad and I built these when I was a kid. They have always sounded great with my Marantz 2250B, my Denon DCD 2560 and Philips 212 with Stanton cartridge. The 1st thing I have always noticed the differences in the CD quality recordings. My old Kansas Nectar Chicago CD's sound poorer than Norman Brown, Fourplay regarding digital quality. Albums ( I know this will p.... people off do not have the dynamic range as the CD's) So one of my RadioShack tweeters stopped functioning thus replacing it with a Morel Cat 378 to each cabinet. WOW harsh. I had to tweak the 1st degree crossover. Before I would say all of the speakers were playing nice. I used a larger poly cap and then resistors. I finally purchased a Dayton 5 uf with a 2.27 mH inductor now to 2000Hz. It finally calmed the tweeter down but before this what fatague!!! The woofer is a full range speaker and now the mid. I am using a 1st order 20uf polycap. Looking at the different tables I could add a 1.2mH inductor for a 1000hz freq at 6db. I will try the inductor addition and then consider 13uf cap plus 1.8mH inductor for a 12db per octave change. All of this takes time to listen for weeks. I know I am rambling, but I thought I would comment how I have enjoyed the video.

[@dynaudiofocus]

With the inductor it sound a touch more lively and slightly better soundstage,to me based on the comparison between the two I'd keep it, but sitting in front of that system at various volumes maybe be a different experience

[@jacovannieuwenhuizen9300]

Also prefered with inductor. It sounds smoother, more sophisticated. Without, it had a bit more "pop" to it but not sure I could listen to that too long. 3rd track was close however. Piano sounded more alive without inductor. I must also add that when I saw you're doing A/B testing, I turned my screen away to do blind testing. I had to rewind after all 3 tests were done to see which was the confiq I liked.

[@Bradimus1]

With sounds better except with the third track. But better is entirely taste.

[@alexz1232]

First song, inductor is slightly better. Second song, in a blind A/B I wouldn't be able to tell. Third song, clear win for having it. Listened on some SHP9500's. I think this sort of testing is heavily influenced by the listeners gear, and also KZbin compression. If you have a download link to some 320kb/s mp3 files, or flac that would help.

[@BrianNavalinsky]

You nailed it. That is exactly what I heard.

[@andersenkurt11]

Hi all, first of all I love this channel and how you work with the fundamentals. it's just great stuff and helps us getting deeper and deeper into the matter of speaker design and great listening experiencies. Commenting directily on the coil having an impact or not. To mee it's very clear: it brings tonality and musical clarity + soundstage to a different and better level than without. For me it's very easy to hear the distinct difference. Even on KZbin! Now the comments around not only using tools, theorethical models as the only design driver - is spot on. The listening experience and spatial perception of what matters in the total sound stage experience should always be a key thing and step in any speaker design process. Talking about "Golden Ears" it is actually a life long development of your listening skills combined with the physical understanding of components, system behaviour and acustic propagation. Sandy at Golden Ear actually puts his experince on these matters into his design as many other also does. Talking about the approach to design and how to effectively tune system behavior to obtain best result - I have have ended up implementing the majority of the socalled cross-over and tuning work in the digital domain. I simply use a very well sounding digital X-over from Yamaha, the D2040 (8xPCM63Y Burr Brown R2R DAC's, maybe the best soundiung DAC ever) that allows you to select many parameters like bandwith, EQ, crossing frequencies, attack/decay, delay, slopes, gain etc etc - finding the "right" parameters fast and effectively, and then later on turn them into analog representations. Again here the work will have some iterations, but much fewer of the fundamentals. Building systems with active filters and driver integrated amps will allways outperform any discrete passive RCL filter solution - period! L.R pioneered this field and was an inspiration to all of us through all his life. He even modelled how to compensate for bandwith group delay in his active filters, a rare disciplene seen in any cross-over design of today. From my early exposure to HiFi dating back to 1975 speakers with a good, flat and constant group delay response was always the ones giving the best spatial stage experience of the music presented. In other term systems with as perfect as posssible ideal transient impulse response are the best reproducers of high quality sound. Bower Wilkins DM7 was one of these. Listening to systems that has been tuned to by theese means are indeed sounding better and more deliveres a better experience of the total sound-stage, and yes the trained ear(and brain) will experience and enjoy hearing the improvements. You are really on the right path here! /Kurt

[@Justwantahover]

Tell him you want a heart.

[@Justwantahover]

Listen for a week and you will hear stuff that will annoy you if the crossover isn't right. It takes that long, but when it comes it's pretty clear what's wrong (listening fatigue). You won't be able to do it with just one listening though, listening fatigue may take that long before you notice it. Also turn your volume way down and way up to hear the speakers properly. If you want the best speakers NEVER be satisfied until you are "blown out" by the sound. You can always make them sound better with a crossover. Mine sound amazing cos of what I just said. Eventually you will get to the stage where you "dare not to touch it" and you will be more than satisfied, not just satisfied (and never get listening fatigue). Just keep going till you get to that stage and you will be amazed every time you hear your speakers. That could take a long time fiddling but well worth it. And think outside the square with the crossover, there are millions of things you can do with them without changing the impedance significantly. e.g. I have a 100mf cap in series with my main bass inductors and a 1 ohm resistor in parl with the 100 mf cap. The bass was a bit muddy with just the inductors and the addition made it the best bass I ever made in a speaker, great control and way good kick drum sound. Even on KZbin you would hear the difference. And by changing the resistor in parl with the 100 mf cap, you can control the bass sound to just how you want it. That's how I settled on the 1 ohm resistor. That is just one of many little tricks I do with crossovers.

[@theshootindutchman]

I can truly hear the clarity difference.... 👍

[@happystar1000]

Here on youtube you can definitely hear a difference. The bass sounds full with the inductor, and generally the music sounds clearer,in terms of how the frequencies are separated. Without the inductor the music does not sound bad, but it has a more flat, natural sound to it. With the piano music it is not a major difference. But with the other styles of music with bass and percussion, it did make a noticeable difference. I would suggest keeping the inductor....unless ofcourse as you stated in person you can't tell the difference

[@gerrymartan6168]

happystar1000 It does sound a little flat without and that is unnatural...

[@frankfreman3661]

With the inductor it is better. There is some tension in the music and it is a bit dark when played without it. I think it is worth keeping the inductor on the xover.

[@pawelpablo898]

All who can hear a difference i admire You. For me you could tell me all was the same and i would buy it.

[@hidjedewitje]

I could hear a difference. Not sure which one I liked better though. Also, what do you think about driver decoupling? And how would you approach it?

[@edperkins5532]

How about this: Redo the same same test, but don't tell us which one has the inductor, just identify each as A or B. And don't keep the order the same for each song (i.e. A in first song may have the inductor, but not necessarily A in the second song, etc.). Then ask us readers which one (A or B) we preferred for each song. Then you can see if anyone really can tell a difference.

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Ed Perkins exactly that video is going live in 3.5 hrs :) Hope you watch!

[@murcielago188]

Nice video. It is a noticeable difference with inductor, sounds crispier and treble more pronounce and presence. So I am concern if the crossover designer cannot hear the difference how can you design a good crossover?

[@GitanusSapiens]

i think it sounds brighter without the inductor, but with the inductor seems more precise...maybe install a switch to soften the hiss from the tweeter?

[@rolandsberzins7828]

When piano was playing i didn't hear any difference, but in first tracks there was slight difference without induktor there was some muddynes in them, with inductor music seemed more strict and precise, for me i like with inductor. And final my opinion is - seems that, that inductor make speaker more universal for different stiles of music. Is it bether? I don't know, it's just preference what kind of sound do you laike.

[@Justwantahover]

I made the crossovers for my speakers, and yours sounds better with the inductor (through my speakers). It not only stops the voice sounding so "squarky" but also pushes more power above the inductor (through the cap) making more top treble output. And that's why people can hear "more detail" with the inductor. Any woofer (or FR driver) needs an inductor to stop it from "sucking" the treble from the cap. So if the woofer (or FR driver) doesn't need an inductor, put the smallest one on (anyway) to save the treble.

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Justwantahover this inductor was placed in parallel with a resistor on the tweeter circuit.

[@Justwantahover]

@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers Of course, but without the inductor there is less top end, still. Without the inductor you must have a small resistor otherwise the cap won't make any difference with a straight wire in parl with the cap. I have a 1.8 ohm resistor in series with my inductor that is in parl with the treble cap. Without the inductor (just the 1.8 resistor) I get more upper med and less top end (then with the inductor).

[@pliedtka]

Hi, gotta grab my headphones. Very small difference, more mids with inductor, I think. With many times listening I could pick them easier as the brain learns the sound, but seriously they are very similar. I had to put RLC trap to cut 4.2k cone break-up on my SB 17NRXC-4 as after a while it was quite annoying, but it wasn't so bad at the beginning. Could be same with your spkrs that some artifacts can drive you nuts after whole day. X-overs - the hardest part of the tuning process. BTW, they sound quite nice. How did you got around the one unit that measured reduced low mids and bass from 300Hz down?

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

pliedtka you and I are hearing pretty much the exact same thing. I just have to live with the woofer that has less bass. Not much can be done. Thankfully those low frequencies just combine to sound the same. Unlike higher frequencies that can throw off stereo image and stuff.

[@fraula1]

Hello :) it seem a little bit clearer without inductor. Placebo effect ?

[@oraz.]

It sounded more detailed in the dynamics with the inductor on the first two tracks. Without was slightly less lively sounding.

[@Justwantahover]

Tell him you want a heart.

[@rolandsberzins7828]

Maybe it's not topic for this video, but i want to ask. In car audio, when you put together, and tune all your sistem, after couple of weeks, or a month, you re tune it, because, drivers gets in there working condition, cople of weeks, you just, wear them, like new shoes, then you can make final tuning. When you make final tests of speakers ( drivers) and start to digitally designing your passive crossover?

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Rolands Berzins I wouldn’t say there’s a specific run in time that it’s then safe to do. I always give the drivers a few hours of break in. Things change but not much after that. It’s more about just having the time to listen and learn the system and also go back and compare to other reference systems. I usually spend several months of listening, or more.

[@tarekz9992]

With inductor, fuller sounding, though on piano i prefer a slightly leaner presentation. Question is how do you like the tweeter after playing with it? I know initially the linear response was nothing too exciting. Lastly, id 123toid's measurements mirror yours on the tweeter and what does he think of it? I was a fan of the original design so very curious how to stacks up.

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Tarek Z it’s pretty decent. Hard for me to say how it would hold up paired with a larger woofer choice, which would be the most common way to use it. Toid had a similar response but didn’t get the top end peak that I did. I had it on both samples so not sure if it was a measurement setup difference. He was indoors and may have used more smoothing.

[@kevintomb]

Honest answer NOT SURE....a live room, recording a speaker with a mike and playback on youtube. Maybe a better test would be to play Pink Noise, and then alternate between inductor and no inductor. That way you could estabilish what tonality or frequency response was altered first.

[@eximiamedia7897]

Without the inductor it sounded slightly less bodied to me.

[@frederikpoppel9394]

In my opinion, it sounds much better with the inductor. Much more authentic and realistic. Especially in the second Song. Although I did Not listen on my best speakers I somehow heard a Difference...

[@Psycherz]

Struggling to decide if I'm crazy or not, but first song without the center sounds closer. No diff 2nd song, but 3rd song piano sounds less centered maybe, harder to 'see' where the player's fingers might have been, but only just. If anything then, vague dilution of soundstage.

[@buddykiller]

i could only hear a difference in the first comparison which sounded better with the choke, in the others i heard no real difference. i want to say that without the choke the piano sounded dirtier, but it's close enough that i'm willing to chalk it up to psychological suggestion (can you hear the artifacts?). edited for spelling.

[@noahtheviking1]

sometimes when you change the levels in certain areas of the audio band other parts in the recording stand out. Like on the first and the last track the reverb and room decay was easier to pick up on without the inductor but such a small amount. I go for no inductor but more for the price of parts instead of what I picked up on.

[@IliyaOsnovikov]

Price of parts actually matters in a mass production. When someone spends dozens of research and labor hours to put together something custom or even unique do a few extra dollars on a way towards perfection really mean that much?

[@russmaleartist]

Without the choke, I could hear more harmonics and fuller, clearer highs, which also affect the rest of the frequencies.

[@noahtheviking1]

yes the reverb and decay is more clear

[@williamtomkiel8215]

The electrons have thawed a whole bunch by the the time they get to SoCal . . . In this very hard untreated room using this cobbled together collection of various bookshelf speakers and my burnished golden ear, no noticeable improvements / changes . . but thanks for "plowing" onward

[@janibh]

Nice Explanation. Thank u. Can you please help us: I have a Bi Ampable Rainbow Reference crossover CS 260 Cross over. ( 260.30) This has 4 terminals Bi input. 4 terminals for W- out put and 4 Terminals for T- out put. How to connect to an amplifer ??!! Some say Bi Input can be bridged with cables. Same say we can bridge the terminals for W and T ... Can u please please solve this puzzle! Thank you.

[@pipeofdoom]

making crossovers is something like building a puzzle but you have all the pieces and know where to put them. Technically and visually something might be perfect but not to your ears for me the crossover without the inductor had more full sound the inductor scoped some sound off in the mid lows but made the tweeter have more clarity in the highs.

[@iceberg789]

first music was very different. bass and instruments were tight with inductor, and kinda scattered without. second music was little muddy without it. third music - could not find any difference. may be because computer my speakers don't have active tweeter ?

[@Newrecordday2013]

This is a great video man!

[@Justwantahover]

USE LISTENER FATIGUE. To kick up the very top end (needed for FR drivers) use an inductor, even if it's a really small one. It stops the med range from robbing treble from the cap. So start off by using an inductor anyway, and in your case just use the smallest you have. Then wait for 2 weeks of listening until listener fatigue sets in. Most probably in the upper voice (female voice). And if this (eventually) happens, you know what to do. Just go up to the next size inductor. That's what I do, cos it's hard to tell, but after a while it comes so obvious, listener fatigue (psychologically) makes the peak really stand out with a lot of music. Then you know, and it's amazing how much better they sound by going up a size. I started with a guess with my 4" FR drivers. I had a 0.47 mh inductor on it and after 1 week I was already deciding on a bigger inductor. But went the second week (to be sure) before changing. And after the second week I couldn't stand it (even when it sounded "amazing" at the beginning). lol So I went to 0.56 mh and now it still sounds good after a month. That is the only way, start with the smallest inductor with an unfamiliar driver (or guess conservative with a familiar one) and go for the smallest inductor possible without the listener fatigue setting in.

[@blieznis]

Definitely the sound is less lean and thin with inductor in place. Please get someone else to listen at your place before you make a final decision.

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

blieznis I’ll definitely be doing more listening and trying a few different rooms/locations.

[@roybatty-]

Sounds the same to me.

[@Nightjar726]

Yeah it makes a difference. The 3-4khz range is upper mids to treble. Higher frequencies such as violins would be a good test. Those would sound thinner without the inductor. You can hear it in the flute in the second track as well. Without the inductor it’s thinner and not as in the front. Same with the piano. The higher notes on the piano were thinner without the inductor. Im a musician as well.

[@jeremyphilander8833]

Can you increase the space between the drivers, then do the test again. Make a infinite baffel design. Thanks

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

jeremy philander that would make the speakers sound bad. It is best to keep the drivers as close together.

[@ksikka]

Remarkable! Could you share the measurements of the difference? I wonder how accurate the xsim from your previous video was. Also do you have a patreon so that I could support you? (And pester you with questions?)

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Karan Sikka hey I appreciate that. I’ve thought about the patreon thing but I don’t really have the time for that stuff. I’ve thought about doing a live stream to answer questions. That could maybe help people. The most questions I get in my email is to look at a XO and give advice, but that takes a long time so I have to ignore those emails. I try to answer all comments though.

[@ksikka]

@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers ok thanks for the response!

[@toddlee2571]

Isn't the parallel inductor about the crossover slope? Depending upon how powerful an amp you're using, the steeper slope will protect your tweeter better but beyond that, ultimately it is up to personal taste.

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

In this case it’s a response shaping component in parallel with the resistor. It’s acting a bit like EQ.

[@jefames9989]

Very significant difference! Without the inductor the sound is more natural, real, it’s most noticeable with the piano resonance. I personally would chose without.

[@beasleyatl]

I'm listening with Audioengine A5 speakers and 24 bit DAC. I agree with Jef.

[@jimspc07]

I had to go through a lot of comments before I found yours, that said what I thought. My initial thought was it makes little difference but it depends on what the content is and its individual range predominance.

[@edincleve1955]

I couldn't really be certain with the first two cuts. Although I liked the ones with the inductor, it may have been because the inductor-inclued cuts seemed to be played at a higher loudness level. Listeners tend to prefer louder cuts with such comparisons. The piano cuts seemed to be about the same loudness, and I preferred the one with the inductor because the decay of the notes played on the piano seemed longer and more realistic. Of course it could just be in my head because I was listening on cheap computer speakers. Hope your weather improves.

[@DREDKNOT2063]

In building a custom crossover is it possible to put in multiple frequency attenuation points on the high end to level out a drivers frequency response an get it to produce a smoother response

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

John O'Connell yes. If you investigate notch filters you’ll be on a good start.

[@DREDKNOT2063]

@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers do you know if that can actually be designed it soundeasy23 I'd really like to know before I buy it

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

John O'Connell yes but don’t buy SoundEasy. Use Xsim or Omnimic or something else. SoundEasy is dated and over priced. All of the XO simulators will do notches and other eq methods.

[@DREDKNOT2063]

thanks

[@dweber2873]

The first recording sounded better without the inductor. To me it sounded like there was more echo or the walls where it was recorded were further apart than with inductor. Personal preference probably. Could not hear much of a difference on the other two recordings.

[@Justwantahover]

It sounded a bit better with the inductor, warmer sound. Maybe go for a bit smaller inductor, experiment. Listen for a week and you will hear stuff that will annoy you if the crossover isn't right. It takes that long, but when it comes it's pretty clear what's wrong (listening fatigue). You won't be able to do it with just one listening though, listening fatigue may take that long before you notice it. Also turn your volume way down and way up to hear the speakers properly. If you want the best speakers NEVER be satisfied until you are "blown out" by the sound. You can always make them sound better with a crossover. Mine sound amazing cos of what I just said. Eventually you will get to the stage where you "dare not to touch it" and you will be more than satisfied, not just satisfied (and never get listening fatigue). Just keep going till you get to that stage and you will be amazed every time you hear your speakers. That could take a long time fiddling but well worth it. And think outside the square with the crossover, there are millions of things you can do with them without changing the impedance significantly. e.g. I have a 100mf cap in series with my main bass inductors and a 1 ohm resistor in parl with the 100 mf cap. The bass was a bit muddy with just the inductors and the addition made it the best bass I ever made in a speaker, great control and way good kick drum sound. Even on KZbin you would hear the difference. And by changing the resistor in parl with the 100 mf cap, you can control the bass sound to just how you want it. That's how I settled on the 1 ohm resistor. That is just one of many little tricks I do with crossovers.

[@legroll]

Unless the changes are instant, it's difficult to discern the comparison. Very enjoyable video, though. Most people don't realize what goes into a well-designed system.

[@markushillemalm]

Big difference!!! With of course. Sounded flat and dol without. Mutch more edgy and lively with. So a no brainer 😁 Listening through my RHA ear plugs / Bluetooth PS. Nice video 👍

[@ИндейскийДух]

Compression magic. I clearly hear that some of the quite sounds are louder. But I can`t answer if they should be louder.

[@MrArnand]

Alright. I listened to it thorugh headphones. Could definely hear it on the first song, with inductor sounds fuller. Second song could not really tell the difference. Last song the piano sounded less bright with it.

[@mangochang0823]

I had the same experience

[@therealblue42]

First song sounded a little muted with and a little brighter with out. Second two were the same. Seemed due to the first song having more mids and the second two were more highs.

[@Toid]

You got my weather! Haha, you did kick my butt!

[@habdulahsalam]

What are the speakers under the Dayton ones?

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

That’s a speaker I built about 5 years ago consisting of a SEOS 12 waveguide and 2 Celestion FTR12-3070C woofers. It’s a 2.5 way meant for controlled directivity home theatre dynamic stuff. Pretty good speakers.

[@habdulahsalam]

@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers how did you integrate the waveguide in the baffle so nice? Also you should do a video on them, and explain the benefits of constant directivity speakers.

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Cimpoeru Mihai I mounted the SEOS and then filled with bonds and sanded about 2 or 3 times then glazed 2 or 3 times until totally smooth. I think I’ll do a video summarizing projects I have around here. This would be one of them. Good idea.

[@markd4292]

Hey. I really enjoyed your crossover evaluation and listening test. I decided to see what's on KZbin regarding building speakers and crossovers etc. because I am in the frustrating process of auditioning several speakers for a stereo system, and hand to heart, many of these so called "audiophile" speakers "almost" sound the same to me: albeit one brand tweaks this and another brand tweaks that, but in general they sound...Eh. Perhaps this is why I prefer: horn compression speakers over the typical driver format and professional studio monitors over them as well, because they are voiced more true to the source, as the horns are true to the timbre and presence. BTW, I could not hear a difference, then again I am listening thru these crappy computer speakers...maybe if anything: high shimmers is absent?

[@everythingreviewsandnews1229]

I couldnt tell a difference at all. Pretty much exactly the same. I think sometimes "audiophiles" are like wine snobs. Oh I taste chocolate, plums, tobacco, oak, and hints of vanilla cinnamon. ;)

[@Mrask1984]

I think the audio compression through KZbin messes up the actual quality of the listening experience. Next time you make a video like this it could be fun if you would not tell which is which before the end or in another video due to the bias people tend to have (e.g. display listening state 1 and 2)

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Martin Rask Larsen I actually plan on doing that next! Stay tuned.

[@attainableaudio4533]

Funny, on the first track I was actually eatting my burrito at Chipotle and not watching and instantly heard the difference, and knew which one sounded better to me... With inductor.

[@mcaddc]

I can hear a difference, through headphones. My hearing is not that great in the higher frequency range, so odd that without the inductor sounds richer more detailed in the top end. My experience seems to be totally opposite to most of the other comments posted.

[@300ZCorradoVR6Z]

I think I could hear it on the first song only. Next time try to make the transition from one to the other without the pause so it's easier for us to do the listening blind without knowing the transition.

[@petethegreekre]

First 2 tracks sounded crispier and clearer, with the inductor added, I preferred it. Funny enough, the piano sounded better without the inductor but I'm just a dude on a couch who loves music and making stuff. No expert.

[@danielstevenson156]

Just saw this video, find your channel very entertaining and informative. The sound without the inductor was much more realistic, with inductor in place sound was artificially warm ( like a low end Marantz amp ). considered easy to listen to but voiced too warm. I grew up with an audiophile in the family and have attended so many live performances they would take too long to list. Have just begun ( in my retirement ) to write, play and produce my own music so i have a little experience with sound. keep up the great work !!!

[@jerichotm2122]

Now that was interesting! At first, of course, I didn't hear much difference... MUCH difference, yes, because there is! But maybe its just a suggestion, because I didn't see you adding or removing the coil, you just use the words... but when I closed my eyes, I noticed a difference in the midrange-high spectrum... its very difficult to explain... its like when one hear 2 sounds at the same time, only they are ... out of phaze, or something; meaning it sounds hursh, and quite distorted... when we say "S", for example, we only here one sound, but when distorted, we hear ShShSh... its like one is saying "S" without its upper front teeth! :)))

[@basthekiller]

On first 2 tracks with inductor, it sounded much warmer (like there was a larger speaker)

[@justinmallaiz4549]

I was surprised at two things: 1) I couldn’t initially hear any difference..despite the dB difference simulated (I double checked the inductor and range you were playing with . 2) the KZbin recording quality was very low! ( but I still expected to hear the simulated difference ). No luck. I think you made the right choice.. definitely bigger fish to fry, especially listening on this side of KZbin 🙂 ... something you might find interesting: The last x-over i did was a rush job-for a friend, at his place, no measurements..just a box of parts (some beers) and some staticky fm radio stations for a source to listen too (gotta do what you gotta do) ... i was just hoping to get in the ballpark.... when ever I hear those speakers now hooked up to his system.. I’m amazed, they sound surprisingly great and spot on.. I ’m guessing all that white noise helped out 🙂 No sense testing the theory or measuring the speakers now..., but if you ever get caught doing something quick by ear... some old tunes on fm ( worked out quite well) and might not be a bad idea 🙂. - I enjoy your channel, cheers

[@Jyristori]

Hi Ryan! Would be really funny experiment if you would tell tomorrow that two of the pairs were actually the same recordings 😊 Make at least a quick joke about it 😁. Thanks for the cool videos!

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Jyri Kaivosoja I strongly considered messing with people. But no pranks this time. Don’t rule it out in the future though.

[@justinmallaiz4549]

Impulse Audio : ... yeah, and on that day it will be a 100-0 votes for version “A”... if I were you, I’d stick to your ears :)

[@attainableaudio4533]

The only thing with this, is that there's too much of a difference, maybe if it was half as much.

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Attainable Audio you’ll want to see/hear the next video and see if you can get it right!

[@justinmallaiz4549]

Impulse Audio :) 4 options, with only 1 correct one of interest please 😀... should Help filter the lucky guesses 👍

[@bricks312100]

Its possible the sound may change after its been used for a few months.

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

They had quite a few hours of listening. I don’t believe in XO break-in. Driver break in,,, maybe a smidge.

[@jenniferwhitewolf3784]

Washington State???? or higher elevation Oregon?

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Jennifer WhiteWolf actually Vancouver Island Canada. Canada is known for snow but I’m basically the same climate as Seattle or Bellingham WA. Very weird to get this much snow. We get a bit of snow every year but it usually just a couple inches at most and then turns to rain and melts.

[@floridaman9968]

It sounds brighter with, depending on what you play it can sound better or worse

[@budmanzoom4441]

I could definitely hear the difference and the inductor sounded better!

[@johnsweda2999]

Yes I can hear a difference it sounds better without the inductor not sure where this in the circuit on the tweeter or main driver in series or parallel And what about trying it with an iron core get a bunch of Nails tie them together has to be tight against the coil on running of capacitor in parallel before or after the inductor maybe a 8 Farad capacitor or 4.7 uF try that and see if there's any different. with the inductor you're getting more high frequency coming through you really want to try and calm these down sounds awful at my end. You might want to run a high capacitance resistor with the capacitor in series across.

[@josephanselmo6863]

Yes, Ryan. I heard The difference in the highs in the second song.

[@jesuscostantino2925]

Quite a notable difference on my crappy laptop speakers. The crossover with the inductor made me wince, but only because the source quality/mix is awful. In most other situations, using the inductor would sound far, far better than without.

[@williampermana9348]

Let's be honest since here we're talking about sound only.Take a minute on last track with piano,does anyone realize even in real life when you hit the piano tuts with finger (one hit) you cannot hear any other sound except 1 tone.And in the video,the track play with inductor really close to the real life piano.

[@Rattletrap-xs8il]

I could totally be wrong, but to me without the inductor seemed a little fuller and round.

[@fruitypebbeats2304]

Lol this video talk about what I just messaged on the last video I like that also you should listen to some reel to reel if you haven’t it will get you straight on what you want it to sound

[@joela.k.a.b220]

Lastly, the first track played with the inductor sounded a bit clearer (less muddled up) and lively

[@goncalocarvalho4917]

Listening online can and do change the variables to much but i prefer the airness of the sound without inductor in place, with it in place the sound gets fuller in the middles but to me loses openness and apparent sound field scale

[@davidmeyer4384]

Liked the first wit and without on the other two

[@lextr3110]

as an electronic music producer i can say that without is really better. might seem subtle for most but with inductor sound lifeless. you might need a better dac or adc or mic tho..or tracks or amp tho.. and liking an inductor because it color the sound in certain ways is the worst thing you can do in my opinion.. you better fix highs another way and keep the signal clean of too much crossover crap really dont agree with any who give positive comments on "with inductor" anything that veil the whole source should be removed from the chain.

[@attainableaudio4533]

Yes better with it and to me would be worth it, don't think you need "golden ears to hear it. But then again it depends on what people will be using these for... Real listening or just more of an atmosphere background listening.

[@maz4bz592]

Certainly on my laptop speaker, no difference! But, another great, practical video :-)

[@researchandbuild1751]

I closed my eyes for a blind test and the piano sounded better to me the second (without inductor)

[@lkmsl]

Oh yeah I hear the difference!

[@Schnippen_Schnappen1]

Sounds a little brighter/full with the inductor

[@mtnmanbob3231]

Hey Ryan, love your videos A- better with, B- better without, C- better without If you happen to read this i’ve Been trying to reach out on the PE tech talk forum via pm (mountain man bob) i’m building a set of your cinema 10’s and have a few questions. I’m also on Erich’s Hifi circuit site also but see you havn’t been on there for some time. If you could get back with me on either of those sites i’d much appreciate it. Thanks,bob

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

bob blanchette hey Bob. I haven’t logged in to PETT for a while, sorry. I’ll get over there after work or on my lunch break. Sorry.

[@mtnmanbob3231]

No worries, No hurry! Thx

[@marcinturkey7231]

With my phone Bluetoothed to my sound bar I could hear a difference, with sounded better to me.. Great video.. But I'm not a golden eared listener ..

[@derekjarman1638]

I can't hear the difference. Even after reading people comments and listening again.

[@kcleach9312]

they sound the same but if you start pushing more power into the speaker thats when the inductor being there comes into play!!

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

KC LEACH it’s an air coil inductor so that shouldn’t be an issue.

[@edwingm8790]

Through my Speakercraft CS3 I can hear the difference. Through an Audiotechnica DSR9BT via USB it becomes very obvious

[@marascott6570]

After listening a second time, I am pretty convinced that the inductor basically makes the tweeter sound bad. I am fairly convinced it must be connected to the tweeter

[@marascott6570]

Also the inductor makes it sound flat, cheap and lifeless... not that I have strong opinions about audio lol

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Mara Scott yes it is connected to the tweeter. In theory it should make it sound better. But, as you’ve pointed out, to some people it sounds worse.

[@marascott6570]

Impulse Audio This is a fun exercise. Maybe I am hearing things, but I was listening in stereo and there was a complete introduction of perceived depth and ambiance with the inductor removed. The instruments sounded more “real” to me. The treble, more integrated and representing the instruments and not “some sound”. That’s how it was for me. I look forward to more of your videos. Your videos cover lots of topics I haven’t even really considered

[@04jaydog]

Hey Ryan, when will my crossover be done? Lol!

[@nikkieb8908]

Keep the inductor. Can hear more low end on sax and in first clip also more low end and richer. Last clip sounded more dull without.

[@elranchotexmex]

Between 200 hz and 600 hz ....?with Bluetooth beats speaker

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Jeeping88 I’m not sure what you mean.

[@edwardcase]

I can tell any difference, My hearing is off at 10kHz to 11kHz so maybe that's why, but the tweeter sounds pretty close to the same to me. Just me tho

[@IliyaOsnovikov]

Do you mean "can't tell any difference"? Actually, according to the graphs that Ryan demonstrated prior to a listening test, the main difference occures in a 2kHz - 7kHz range.